Risk On Podcast

Nobody Is Safe | EP 55

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0:00 | 1:07:20

Covering:

- Hyperliquid Jeff Yan feature
- Joe McCann & the Tanzania story
- Nikita teases X crypto launch
- They're throwing molotovs at Sam Altman

And more.

SPEAKER_06

Welcome! Risk on episode 55. Uh Swizzle. Myself here. Uh brought to you by FOMO. Best multi-chain trading experience in the game. Go download it today. Go get in the trenches. Mark it's hot. Uh go buy some shit coins over there. I'm hearing it's BNB season. I'm hearing it's soul season. I think it's E season.

SPEAKER_05

It's every season.

SPEAKER_06

It's every fucking season. It's fucking alt season. Um what do you guys think? How's everyone doing, first of all?

SPEAKER_05

Uh sideline two. Uh sideline Zec. Apart from Zec, apart from Zec, big Zec guy, big privacy guy. That's uh the only thing I've got going for me at the moment. Um sideline dog on everything else. I think at the end of last stream. I was thinking about this yesterday when the market puked and we were down. Um or it was the day before. I think day before we puked like four or five percent. Um we were back down to 70k. I remember I said at the end of last stream I was like, oh wow, I think we're gonna be back at 70, uh 68k. I was knee sliding, happy of myself being sidelined, and this is now me. The sidelined dog. I don't trust the bounce, but I I secretly do trust the bounce, but I'm sidelined, so I can't trust it. Um because I'm praying for lower because I have no coins. Uh embarrassing, embarrassing, truly embarrassing. Uh yeah, no coins, no coins apart from Zek. Terrible.

SPEAKER_04

This is the classic. Uh, we've all been here before where it's like when when prices are chopping or not looking good and you're sidelined, you're very confidently bearish, right? And then and then stuff starts to go up, and we still don't know, but all of a sudden you gotta you gotta keep talking confidently, you gotta keep being uh we don't trust this, but we know what's happening in your mind right now, yeah. For sure, Sats.

SPEAKER_05

We we know you're a little stressed. You know, I'm looking at this chart, I'm instantly thinking, range high, it's over. Range high. Send it down, send it down. Let's revisit range lows. Time to correct the shorts.

SPEAKER_04

Or do you have to say it now for your for your well-being?

SPEAKER_05

You have to say it for your well-being. And and you know, you convince yourself, you know, once we break set 60 uh 76k, you know, I might start start to get bearish. No, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna get bearish, I'm not gonna get bullish there. I'm gonna wait till 78k. Then I'm gonna start. I'm gonna say, guys, time to sell, time to correct shorts, we're going lower. And then I'll capitulate in the 80s. Um, I'll probably buy the top. Probably by the top. Um, probably buy the top, and then come on here on the Tuesday or the Friday and moan. And moan um uh and and say and blame Trump, probably.

SPEAKER_06

The best thing when you buy the top, and it and and so you buy it like 80, it goes to like 83, and you're feeling great, and 83 is the top, and you get that like day of feeling good about it. They went to this move. I'm not selling it.

SPEAKER_05

They lure you in, they they broke you in, and then boom, done.

SPEAKER_06

And then they wreck you. You you are and you you you you don't buy the exact top, you buy within 10% of the top, and then they crush your fucking dreams.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. They drift you in with a slight bit of profit. You see a PL, you see a PL creeping up, you're thinking, fuck, I'm a great trader, and then fucking hit with reality. No, you're shit.

SPEAKER_04

That's it. Well, I have to say this. I have to say this. There's a lot of smart people on the timeline right now saying 90k. There's been a vibe shift. Unfortunately, there's a lot of dumb people on the timeline saying 90k, also, and I'm grappling with that. So uh, what does it mean? There's definitely been a vibe shift. I think we're we're seeing actually you can see it in the fear and greed index. Like we broke, we were like sub-10 for like. I also don't know fully how they calculate that. Seems like it's a guy on Twitter who's like, this is how we feel right now. But uh that said, a lot of people follow it, and um it was sub-10 for like weeks. Like we're we're talking like it hadn't been that low for that long since like 2022. But um, but it's it's creeping up, it's back at like 20 right now. So it's like you're it's definitely not euphoric. It's definitely not no one's happy right now, but there's a little bit of a vibe shift where I think, you know, Bitcoin has been uh unusually resilient through all this, like feels like every every weekend we've had Trump do something, more drama with the Straight of Hermiz, like more drama with you know, the ceasefire happens and then it's off, and all these different factors. And it seems like there's just like a like less of a reaction each time. And that's usually what I feel like you've seen with a lot of times with crypto bottoms, or at least like local bottoms, is like you see this, like kind of like all of a sudden the market just stops reacting quite as much. Like Bitcoin goes down 2% instead of 5%, and then it kind of just settles and everyone just keeps going on. It's almost like we're tired of being uncertain. The market's like tired of getting panicky and they just they just want to trade the market again. That's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, the market runs out of sellers. Um, and then Sailor is the marginal buyer. Uh, as that's the bear case, you know. You you say, you know, who's moving us up right now? It's only Michael Staler buying here, guys. No need to get bullish. Uh well, the marginal buyer is buying a fuck ton of Bitcoin right now, though. You know, you know, we're gonna come, we're gonna see tomorrow. Now, you know what? I'm done being bearish. Uh I'm done being bearish, but this is a crazy, this is absolutely crazy. Uh he is pulling it off.

SPEAKER_06

Um so my quant Rob says that this can go on for much longer than anyone thinks is possible.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I think I think he's right as well. It can. It can go on.

SPEAKER_06

He said this is a 2027 problem.

SPEAKER_04

It can be a problem.

SPEAKER_06

Not a 2026 problem.

SPEAKER_04

I I don't understand the like the mechanics of of the stretch that well, but like it also is it's it's sort of market dependent too. Like I saw, I think I sent it in the chat. We had this uh pickle uh who's pretty smart duty. I I've he's one of my favorite follows. He posted this, if we could pull it up, um, about how the stretch bid works. Basically, it was saying like it works in a choppy or an upwards chop market, but like if we have another if equity's correct hard again, like it can't continue. That's the near, that's his near tweet. We're gonna talk about that later. Um Henry, come on.

SPEAKER_05

Wow, the paycheck is sliced in half, bro. Just sliced in half, man.

SPEAKER_06

Henry's also been giving us some some some uh a little bit of attitude lately, guys. Deal with him. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I guess. Yeah. Um but yeah, so basically, like at the bottom part here, I I found that was this is interesting. I just didn't know this. He was saying when stocks nuke, stretch nukes, it will be reflexive down again as last time. Those that buy and hold for safe yield won't be happy with their bond. Um so basically it's like it almost feels like uh the better the market conditions are, the stronger the bid this can be here. Um so it's just, I mean, it I mean, I suppose this is a new added layer of volatility for Bitcoin, right? Where it's just it can be reflexive either direction as far as how much passive bid is coming in.

SPEAKER_05

Jesus. It's just another it is one of them things it's like somebody, you know, on the maths, the math tells you we're all fine, it can't blow up, but then you you really start to think about it, and it's like you know, this this doesn't seem very sustainable. Um and then you start, it's like it's like the thing of never use the product with Sailor, it's like never investigate the maths, never dig in behind the curtain. Um troubling. Troubling, but it's working, I gotta say. But I think Rob is right. Rob is right, it's a it's a 2027 problem.

SPEAKER_06

I hope so. I hope we get some good price action. Um it would be nice to make some money again for the first time in what, like, a year. Uh it's been a long time. And we all just paid our taxes yesterday, uh or today, or tomorrow, whatever it is. It was a very sobering moment. Also a good moment for me to have to get stuff. Um but in other news, and probably a toxic, I'm wiring money back to QuickBase to on ramp some more money. Um we're gonna fuck around a little bit in the trenches. Last time I did this, I bought a bunch of Ralph and I was up six figures pretty quickly. And then I rolled all that no, sorry, to gas. And then I rolled all the gas money into Ralph, and I got rugged like a week later and lost it all. So I'm hoping this time's gonna be different and I'm gonna make a bunch of money, but this is probably a top signal to everybody.

SPEAKER_04

That's the most glory, that's the most uh like textbook uh magical like crypto tradition is send my okay and bring more money in from bank account, it immediately goes up 2x. You're feeling euphoric, and then boom, it's gone.

SPEAKER_06

It happens every single time. But here's how I'm looking at it. So, like in the last three weeks, Swizzle, you have been pressuring us to become an AI podcast, which had to be the bottom. Had to, had to. We're like, no one's gonna listen to us anymore. We gotta get on AI people, we gotta get founders on, blah blah blah blah blah. And here we are, crypto's ripping. Sailor has launched an incredible Ponzi, and I'm onboarding money back into crypto. Um I can't think like us pivoting to that one. I know nothing about AI, has to have been the bottom. Like, there's no other, there's nothing else that could have been. Um, but like you have bitch size right now. I also have bitch size right now. So what are we gonna do about this?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you gotta run it, you gotta spin it back up. Unfortunately, um, yeah, the the tax man came collecting. Uncle Sam had to be paid, you know. Uncle Sam had to be paid. But um, no, I think I think operating with smaller size in all seriousness is probably the right move right now. Like the market is clearly waking up a little bit. I'm curious when you say like you wired some money back on wood, like you're you looking at you're looking at the trenches, you're looking at perps trading, you're looking at just buying spot. Like, where as someone who's been kind of like really cautiously out of the market for a long time, what are you actually looking to do? Like, what it what's your actionable kind of like approach to all this?

SPEAKER_06

I think for me, the way that I've done well in markets is on-chain trading. Um, and you can believe it's dead, you can believe we're past on-chain trading, you can believe tooling is whatever. But I'm a big believer in kind of sticking to what you're good at. Um, and that's historically what I've been good at is trading on-chain. Um trading on-chain is the one place where you can take a little bit of money and turn it into a fuck ton of money. Um, and as someone who kind of has, I I I hope to keep the majority of my money that I've made. Um I have no intention. I have no intention of being like, I'm gonna buy, you know, a fuck ton of uh lighter and catch a 3x move on it. Like that's not what I'm here to do. Um and that's not what I'm good at. Um so I am gonna onboard a dollar amount that I'm comfortable with and try to fuck around on chain and see what happens. Um, just like I did with Ralph, I have a gas, sorry, and then Ralph, and then Penguin. Um, I believe there are some moves out there like that that we can catch right now.

SPEAKER_04

And there is some activity we're seeing. There is some some life we're seeing. Like, I don't know if you guys saw this pump cade has gone crazy. It's kind of on the backs of and seems like Ansom's been pushing that a little bit. But they, you know, like they won this Pump Fund hackathon a couple months ago, and there was really no price reaction to it. Uh, and then they got an investment, and so this is like a prediction, like a micro prediction markets platform, just a solo founder. Um, they won the hackathon, got a little bit of funding, and then Pump Fun invested, I think like a million dollars or something into them. Uh, so he he's capitalized, and then now I guess they just raised another round. But I don't know the reason exactly if just the fundraising announcement is what pumped it. Regardless of the reason, it's interesting to see, like, okay, there's there's some money in the system that were regardless of the reasons, was able to kind of like give a chart a little bit of a you know, an explosive run to the upside. And I don't think a lot of people caught that, but it's interesting to see because I just I don't even think we've seen anything like that happen on chain for a while. Um, so you know, maybe it's signs of life, maybe this is an isolated event, but with Bitcoin going up, and maybe it gives us a little bit of hope, right? That they're gonna be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_06

What is Pumpkin Swizzle? You you were talking about earlier. You you you think it's an interesting concept. Can you talk us through what it is for people who don't know?

SPEAKER_04

Um, we can pull it up. Basically, my understanding is it's a prediction markets platform for like peer-to-peer micro micro prediction events with your friends. Like, you know, if we're all if we're all sitting in traffic and we're like, hey, you know, is it gonna take 30 minutes to get to our destination or 35 minutes or whatever? You can just create a little market of your own. Like people make their own markets, they're tradable instantly.

SPEAKER_06

Um it's a basically a place to bet with your friends.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think that's kind of it. There's there's probably more to it that I'm missing. Um, we could probably get the founder on. Is he goes by Pop Cade on Twitter. Do that for this next week. Interesting, interesting guy. I talked to him uh a month or two back, and like, I mean, I think the guy is very he's crushing four monster white monsters a day and sleeping like two hours a night and just coding all day. So stats mode. Yeah, he's he's uh he's in stats mode right now.

SPEAKER_05

But it's actually funny you say that. I haven't slept today. Um Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, motherfucker. I I was trying to get you messaged me, I think, on Friday, being like, dude, I haven't slept in 28 hours. Someone call with me. Can you take the call for me?

SPEAKER_05

Um the call was with an extremely annoying person to get that straight as well. It was one of the ones you cannot take on low sleep. Uh it's simply off the cards.

SPEAKER_06

So you made me take it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I made well, yeah. It's one of the ones you made me would, and and hopefully he deals with it. Um he did deal with it. Did deal with it.

SPEAKER_04

And then I chats, what exactly is the no sleep thing? Like you're just like, I just gotta keep coding, I just gotta keep going, or like at some point you gotta be like, okay, the body needs to shut down a little bit here.

SPEAKER_05

So so I I basically like right now I get obsessed with with with minor tweaks, and like there's like I I do two more things. It's like when you're so close to being done, but you're not done yet. Um, so I feel the need to finish it. Uh and and and I get addicted. Um, I sit there and and keep on tweaking, keep on making minor minor tweaks every single time. And then before you know it, I don't even realize that time's flying and uh my body just doesn't feel tired. It's probably because I'm I'm still young. Um, it will catch up with me when I'm when I'm in my late 20s. But uh yeah, I get away with it at the moment. I I sleep for three hours, four hours. I wake up, I do another two or three hours, and then I get another two hours and I'm back to it. I stay up for 24, 25 hours, and then go out to sleep. But it's not sustainable, man. I I feel like shit. Let's not get that, let's not get that that missed, but it's worth it. I get so much satisfaction from it.

SPEAKER_04

So I have noticed this with like with Claude, I don't know, for people who've used Claude Code specifically or any of these like L, you know, the these coding tools. It's like for someone like me who has never been able to code before and now all of a sudden I can, and it's like I'm trying to read through it and understand what's going on. Um, the fact that you can do these things and tweak them, it's it's almost like the most addictive video game you've ever played because it's just like Pandora's box has been opened and you're like, I can do whatever I want. Whether that's true or not, we don't know. But like there's something highly, highly addictive about it. In the same way, like we started playing video games as kids, you know, the ease, you know, you started playing League of Legends or Fortnite or whatever. It's like it's that same feeling where it's like you can just get the constant simulation of the next thing, the next thing. It it's it's it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_05

That's the best way to describe it. It is the best video game on earth, and especially when you when do you hit that first bit of revenue and you realize the more time you sink in, the more you're gonna get out. It's the most satisfying feeling you ever think. Like when you you you push an update to the site, you refresh, and you see your users go up, you see people using what you just built. There's nothing more satisfying than that. Um, and I don't think that that that feeling will go away for for a long time. But I do need I have like once a week where I sleep for like 18 hours a day and I and I come back feeling really refreshed. Um but no, I wouldn't recommend what I'm doing here. It's just I love it, I love it. Um, and I wouldn't change it. Like I just have a lot of fun doing it. So I it's like when I go to bed, I haven't had it in a long time. It's like when I go to bed, I'm literally I'm going to bed thinking like fuck, I can't wait to get back and do that shit. Um, and I haven't had that in a long time. So yeah, maybe that wears off um in a few months, but I don't know, I don't I don't feel that yet. So yeah, wouldn't recommend it.

SPEAKER_06

Well, Seth, maybe instead of focusing on uh building apps, you should focus on trading again.

SPEAKER_05

Perhaps, perhaps what and uh get absolutely rinsed. Um there's a reason I'm sidelined. Yeah, to be fair, I'm just a sidelined guy right now. I maybe if I was tapped into trading, I would have been uh not sidelined right now, but I think I've saved myself a lot of money.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, bear market hit him so hard he had no choice but to become a master coder. Yeah, for real.

SPEAKER_05

I before before my Chrome crashed here, I the last thing I heard would say was um Swizzle was trying to convince us to become an AI AI podcast, and uh yeah, I think I I I accidentally pivoted to being an AI guy at the bottom, maybe so I then told Swizzle that he is trading with bitch size now while you were gone. This is true. Wow, are you so wow? You're getting bitched out right now? Comparatively, still trade with more size than would, to be clear.

SPEAKER_06

Size mog size muck. You know what? Someone who's not gonna have much size pretty soon, our boy Pasternax being investigated by the state of New York. Not a great look.

SPEAKER_05

Maybe his girlfriend broke up with him badly.

SPEAKER_06

The timing has to correspond, right?

SPEAKER_05

Horrible, horrible day, yeah. Maybe she's pushing this. Yeah, maybe she's pushing this.

SPEAKER_06

You get dumped by what was her name? Aren't you doing threesome with her, Sat? Whoa!

SPEAKER_03

Whoa!

SPEAKER_05

Never me, never me, never me. Man of Christ. Man of Christ. Man of Christ.

SPEAKER_04

However, with him and Pasternak? What a fitting picture of Pasternak here. That's just like the most crypto photo I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_05

It's a bad one. It looks like a guy who sold chicken nuggets and then pivoted to crypto.

SPEAKER_06

Not exactly what it looks like. And they weren't even real chicken nuggets, they were plant-based chicken nuggets.

SPEAKER_05

They were fake chicken nuggets. Uh you know I I said this uh uh when we started the pod. I was uh ballpark ball posting this guy at one point.

SPEAKER_06

Um and I was making it on the team for like STO lead in the team chat.

SPEAKER_05

I wasn't on the team, however, I was in the chat, and then I realized, whoa, this is rough. This is rough in here. Um, maybe I need to get out. Uh I didn't get out. Um I did I did make a little bit of money on believe, um, but not as much as I should. But yeah, I want at one point I was trying to spin the nugget narrative to be bullish, believe. Uh tough one, tough one to sell. But people were eating it up, and uh, I thought it was great at the time. Bad luck now. Um, he's not looking good in this picture, and nor is the one wonder kind goes from nuggets to crypto scandal.

SPEAKER_04

You know the craziest thing about this? Uh, so we uh if you guys remember, we had Avi, uh Avi on the show, the founder of Cled, and he they had their big clash uh when he left the Believe platform. He basically called this guy, everyone kind of knew, but he called this guy a scammer. He was the first one to do it publicly. And he made a comment when he was on the podcast with us where he said, like, the craziest thing is this guy stumbled into the most incredible opportunity where like the the garbage scam that he put together actually like actually gained momentum. And if he had just like an ounce of less laziness or scamminess or whatever, he could have pivoted and been like, you know what, I'll build this into a real thing because he had all the the traction for it. And he's like, it almost would have been easier to actually build a real company that would have taken off than to just like ghost and rug the way that he did. Um, and I I've thought about that a lot since Avi said that. I'm like, this dude literally, it could have been probably the same amount of work for him to build a legitimate, you know, the top with the token trade in a billion dollar market cap if he just instituted some sort of flywheel or like followed up with any of the one of the 10 features they said they were gonna ship or whatever. Um and instead he just went this route and now he's on uh news articles for the wrong reasons.

SPEAKER_06

So all he had to do was try a little bit. Not even that hard. Show effort, not even that hard. He had to show that he was making an effort and it. Intended to follow through with what he was saying he was gonna do. And if he had done that and the project didn't, no one would have been mad or suing him. It would have been fine. If he was like, I instituted a flywheel, I tried to make this work. Instead, he was like, nah, I'm just gonna max extract this one.

SPEAKER_05

I you know, I I I think it's another one of the things I don't even think he he meant to. I think he he he built this product really ambitiously and then realized he couldn't distribute it and onboard founders, and then was like, fuck this guy's I'm getting rich and getting out of it. Um, and that's exactly what he done.

SPEAKER_04

Do you think the intentions were ever good though? It doesn't really I think they were.

SPEAKER_05

No, I think they were at one point when he when he first came in. I think he came in as a very, very naive person, like a lot of uh people in crypto do. They especially Web 2 guys, they they go like, oh like web 2's hard. I'm gonna come over to crypto and it's gonna be fucking easy. Like all these guys are dumb. They come here, realize everyone's actually pretty fucking smart. Um, I say that probably not. Um and then and then, yeah, that they they they're like, oh, I'm gonna build this amazing product. Um and then yeah, he just realized that no other founder wanted to launch on his platform, and it was like his hands were tied, he couldn't distribute the product to the one people, the one people he needed, which was launches. Um, and he just couldn't do that effectively, and then the platform just died.

SPEAKER_06

So this tweet from him was pretty fucking funny, guys.

SPEAKER_04

Is this uh is this like recent? This was yesterday.

SPEAKER_06

This is from last night.

SPEAKER_04

That's pretty good, man. Nikita was involved, right? Or he was like advising. Yeah, is that is that wrong? Is that wrong?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_06

He was.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

That's right. Um, and uh, which is crazy that Nikita was advising. Uh Nikita also said last night that crypto is dead and they're gonna and Twitter is gonna do something about it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I didn't really get that one.

SPEAKER_06

I don't think anyone knows what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_05

Hopefully bullish from my bags, um, but it's gonna be bullish Solana really.

SPEAKER_04

What does this mean though? I saw Justin Son immediately reposted it. Um and I was like, what is going what's going on here? Like Justin Sun immediately was immediately post as if as if it was probably stablecoin payments through Twitter via Trump.

SPEAKER_05

That's pretty fucking good. Like that, yeah, that'll that'll be pretty fucking good, but it's like what chain is that on?

SPEAKER_06

You know, why don't we own Tron?

SPEAKER_05

I know the tri the fucking Tron Charts, right? Yeah, no, all all moats all all roads lead to Tron. Um I think that's the motto in crypto that no one actually gets yet. Uh but I the Dubai grocers honestly were onto it first, too, right? No, they were, they were, yeah, and now the charts just up only, and I'm once again a sidelone dog. So I maybe I need to become a Tron guy, man.

SPEAKER_04

If it makes you feel any better though, it's not like you missed the dip because the Tron chart has been up only for almost all of its existence. It just doesn't go down.

SPEAKER_05

But when I buy, it's going to start going down. Um so yeah, it's gonna start going down. Uh, but I should buy. I I need to pull the trigger. I was looking at it. Well, after we got off the pod the other day, I got, you know, I got on the chart and I was like, you know, how am I fucking top blasting here? This looks a bit ropey, but like, and then you zoom out, you're like looking at the weekly, you're like, yeah, but it doesn't even go down. Like, this looks fucking incredible. And then I actually started getting granular going down the time frames, you start looking at the one hour, and you're like, Yeah, I'm buying the top here, and then next day, boom, you're up again.

SPEAKER_04

Um, what do you actually think this uh X crypto uh release is though?

SPEAKER_05

This is just yeah, it's gonna be what Wood said. It's gonna be so I can send you $50 through X in five seconds on Solana. That's exactly what it's gonna be. And that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's it's gonna be so simple.

SPEAKER_04

Um just like an integrated wallet to your profile, basically.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. I I think it's an integrated Solana wallet to your profile. So if I want to pay you for a service, I want to pay you $100 for I don't know, whatever. I can just do it through do it through this. I think that this is the this is gonna be their competitor to or like Venmo is the uh Nigerian Princess Uh Nigerian Princess everywhere are strong. Oh my god, they're gonna be rampant in the DMs, rampant. They're happy now.

SPEAKER_06

Nothing more bullish has ever happened.

SPEAKER_05

Big knee slide from the Nigerians in the in the DMs. Big, big knee slide. Um, can expect them to hit my line very, very soon.

SPEAKER_06

I haven't been asked for money in a long time, which means it's coming. It's coming.

SPEAKER_05

They're gonna be raising seed rounds and be like, guys, just send it to my Twitter.

SPEAKER_06

Um more seed rounds, guys. I'm never doing another one.

SPEAKER_05

Just send your private deal to my to my personal wallet. 100 ways.

SPEAKER_06

In the last two hours, I just got a DM from somebody about a seed round saying, Did you ever get repaid? No. Um, and the second D and and and then an email about another company saying, This company is being wound down. Well, you are not going to be getting anything, most likely, but you're gonna need to sign some documents.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, there it is. Fucking classical and then the cool earlier as well. The cool earlier, what I had earlier earlier. It's again another blown-up fucking blown. It's again stay away from this. Yeah, stay away from this.

SPEAKER_04

It's funny how how when these when these deals are raised and it's like, hey, you have like four hours to get to sign this, get the money in. Like it's happening super fast. You have to get in right now. And so everyone's panicking, they're like, oh, I gotta get in. And then when it's time to return the money, man, it can it takes months. Oh, yeah, we'll get you that documentation back in a couple weeks, just a couple years.

SPEAKER_05

Uh nobody just to die, guys. Everything's going on behind the scenes. The lawyers are walking. Yeah, but there's so many lawyers on the back end.

SPEAKER_04

No lawyers on the front end of this, right?

SPEAKER_06

Hasn't stats already vibe coded a new a new lawyer app, I would assume. Like, what do they need lawyers for anymore?

SPEAKER_05

Uh honestly, yeah. This is what I'm saying. What the fuck do they need lawyers for? But apparently they need the whole Man City lawyer crew. You know that video of all the Man City lawyers walking through the thing, they got the 20 of them. That's what that's what these guys have got, apparently, and they don't get anything done. That's the craziest part. They got 20 lawyers. 20 lawyers, it takes them 20 years to write one document, and then when it times to pay, they're like, Money's not here, guys.

SPEAKER_06

Fucking incredible, guys. I got my uh useless jersey yesterday that I ordered and the hat. Yeah, I didn't. But you didn't, you didn't. I did. I did, I sure did.

SPEAKER_04

Dude, you can't you can't not be on face cam and then tease us with a useless page. I'll post a picture of it. Jersey page.

SPEAKER_06

We're we're gonna get there soon. Like I said, wife is now a podcaster, so I have to hold this over her head. Yeah, she's gonna go on fucking camera. I have to go on fucking camera.

SPEAKER_04

Is she is she also using a Bitcoin puppet as her profile?

SPEAKER_06

She is not using a Bitcoin puppet, although I did realize that everyone who downloads Telegram, because I downloaded Telegram years ago, right? And I just use my normal phone number, I block it so no one could fucking see it. But people who also have your phone number and are in like your decklist can see you. So I'll get a notification like like Stephen James has joined Telegram. I'm like, why am I getting I'm like, oh fuck. Steven James can see that Wood is not a nice cat 69 and has a fucking Bitcoin puppet as his profile picture and is a link to his Twitter account. I have not gotten a message yet, but the people the people who download Telegram in my real life are not the people I'm friendly with, I'm finding.

SPEAKER_04

Damn the Steven James Doc stream. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Like Stephen James is not a real person. But like, what are like it's like the contractors, it's like uh not that I love contractors, they're all great.

SPEAKER_05

But it's like, what are they downloading Telegram for? What are you doing here? It can't be anything good, it's gotta be nefarious activities.

SPEAKER_06

The guy that I buy watches from has Telegram.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, of course. Yeah, he's yeah, of course, of course.

SPEAKER_06

Classic the cleaning cleaning people have telegram. I've had uh Nakamba finish. Oh uh last person is one of my four-year-old friends' moms has Telegram. And that's sketchy.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, just that's sketchy. I don't know because but you know what's funny, would like a lot of these people, I've noticed this, like they don't know that you get a notification when they join Telegram. So it's like you you're very native to it, but like they have no idea that like they're actually they think it's like a pro they hear, oh Telegram private messaging. They don't know they get anyone who's on who's a contact, just immediate ping notifications. It's like, oh, I know you're up to something, right?

SPEAKER_06

You're doing something you probably shouldn't be doing.

SPEAKER_04

We're just we're just trading crypto on there, but that's definitely not what you're doing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I've had a few messages. Um, I've had a few messages of uh people I used to work with in SAS and shit, and uh they join and they're like, this was when I had my anime profile picture of of a female. Um tough one to explain. Uh they're like, they're like don't you still have that?

SPEAKER_06

I'm so glad you got rid of that SAS. It was the lane, it was oh my god, it makes me so. It's gone.

SPEAKER_05

It's gone. I got I got a few messages and they would be like, like, Max, like what are you what are you doing here with that profile picture? And I'll be like, look, bro, like just don't ask. Can you just fucking move on?

SPEAKER_04

Like uh, but yeah, I'm gonna go back to the city. No, but actually, why did you why I I'm I've always wondered why why was that your profile picture?

SPEAKER_05

You know, back in the day, uh when I first joined CT, um, I used to look around. I you know, I've never watched an anime in my life, by the way. I've never watched an anime I didn't believe. I don't believe. No, I swear in my life, I've never watched an anime in my life. But uh I used to scroll around CT and I used to be like, whoa, these guys with anime profile pictures are smart as fuck. I was like, all these guys, common denominator. What am I gonna do when I anime profile picture? I think I Googled black anime profile picture was that boom. This one looks sick.

SPEAKER_06

Black anime profile picture, like like like black and white or like a black guy?

SPEAKER_05

Black and white, no, no, no, not a black, nothing against you know, nothing against black and white.

SPEAKER_04

So you were so you were just like, I think all the rich people on this app have anime anime profile pictures.

SPEAKER_05

Everyone who was written tweets back. Yeah, everyone who's written smart tweets last cycle had an anime profile picture, and I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do? It's fucking anime profile picture time. Um it worked, it worked, got decently sized on too much. Turned out it was true. It turned out it was true. Everyone thought smarter.

SPEAKER_06

You did it with an anime picture, and I did it showing dog shit coins with a Bitcoin puppet.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that's that's true. And then you bought the top of the Boogles.

SPEAKER_06

Um, and then I bought the top of the Boogles.

SPEAKER_05

You know what that anime profile picture cost me?

SPEAKER_06

Zero. Zero. Yeah, what would you control alt save from Pinterest or something?

SPEAKER_05

Uh I didn't even make it to Pinterest straight off Google Images. Very, very low effort. Very low effort, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Did you guys read the article about Jeff from Hype by the way?

SPEAKER_05

Oh man, what an argument. Guys are bad.

SPEAKER_06

What a fucking badass.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_06

I I read that and I was like, I don't own enough. Yeah. I hate dot hypes. My favorite part of the article is that he only wears uh Lululemon shorts and shirts because I only wear Lululemon shorts and shirts. I have the same, I have the same, I have I have 10 pairs, I have the pair of the same guy. I have like 10 of the same shorts, 10 of the same shirts of different colors, and that's all I wear. It's such an awesome move, by the way. Underrated. Anyone who doesn't do that, you should probably go do that. Uh Razo, I convinced to do that recently. He sent me a screenshot of his receipt. He went and dropped 4K at Lululemon last week.

SPEAKER_04

Just wait, he read the article and then. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_06

He talked to me about Lululemon and my like love for it, and then he went and did the same thing.

SPEAKER_05

Bro, Lululemon's not that expensive. What the fuck is that?

SPEAKER_06

It is if you buy everything in the store. Crazy. Um, but anyways, the article was sick. Uh he's it made me feel the same way. Um that you just said, Sats. I don't know enough. And instead I'm buying fucking lighter.

SPEAKER_05

I I sent that to Swizzle. I sent that to Swizzle and XY when I first read it, and I was like, like, guys, you need to read this shit now. Like, this is so fucking good. This was that's this was at like 9 a.m. this morning. So like this was today when I read this. Um, off the back of the no sleep, and I that that sprung me into action again. I was like, wow, I need to like this guy's this guy's so much better than me in all aspects. I was like, fuck, I need to get to it. Um, but yeah, Jesus, what a guy. What story?

SPEAKER_04

I will say, I I mentioned this to Wood. I don't even want to say this. I don't even want to say this. I know where you're gonna come. You know where you're gonna come as well. You know what I'm about to say? I the only thing I I thought the article was great. I had the I thought the article was great. It it really like he's such an impressive dude. And I there's definitely a couple there were a couple weird things though that I had this kind of like reaction in the back of my mind where I was like, I can't tell if this guy's a badass, this is incredible, this is awesome, or there was like a little bit of me that was like, this kind of reminds me of the point where we were all glorifying SBF shortly before everything went wrong. And I'm not saying I believe that. I don't, I think, I think Jeff, smart dude, he actually comes across like very well-intentioned, like, you know, he's clearly like not lit, you know, he doesn't soak up the luxury of his wealth and everything. Like he lives by modest means, but there's just something, you know. I read the part about like when he was in Puerto Rico, he gave his wife or his girlfriend like 30 minutes of time, and then otherwise he's coding and he's like, he doesn't, you know, there's like a little bit of that the whole, what was it, effective altruism was the whole thing with SBF and Caroline and all the people at FTX. Am I crazy for like just having a little bit of a bad feeling about some of this stuff?

SPEAKER_05

You're not, you're not, because I think everyone who read it and and witnessed the whole FTX situation probably felt a little bit the same. It is a complete different context. I don't want the hate like the hyperlike.

SPEAKER_04

And it's not Jeff's fault that they wrote it this way, right? It's not his fault that they wrote it.

SPEAKER_05

And it is a great article, it's a fucking great reading, and that's how it's meant to read. Like it's meant to you get to the thing. I finished it and I was like, fuck, that was that was one of the best reads I've had in a while. Um, but yeah, I do I do get that feeling. Um, but like, I mean, as a hyper if you're holding hyper liquid right now, that you're like, fuck, oh, this is my founder, bro. Right. This is my guy.

SPEAKER_04

But that and that's the thing is like increasingly, and this is because it's a fantastic business, and like the guy has made decisions as opposed to like just taking back and having it be clean profit coming in. Like he they've reinvested everything into the business and they've they've done things in a very like a way that is really ramping up this housing of finance, like everything funnels back into this. Um, but there's an aspect of that where it's like, man, we are increasingly becoming very dependent and trusting on this whole ecosystem. So it just it has to it has to be legitimate in every single way. And I think if we're not asking those questions, which I think people are much more now than than last time. And the beauty is this is all very transparent, much more so than FTX. Like the way they built the the hyperliquid vaults, the HLP vaults, which sets you're a power user of and you've you know been a you know a deep believer in that that stuff is great because it's it's transparent, right? So uh in no way is there any like fraud or anything going on here. It's just like, man, there's a we're we got a we got a lot of eggs in our Jeffy on basket right now.

SPEAKER_05

They've gotta be feeling that too, though. Like he's a fucking smart guy. Like he's I don't I feel like he's not he's not the the guy who gets ahead of himself here. He they must be spending a lot of money bulletproofing this site, um making sure there is there is no possible way um that this this falls and these chips fall. Um but I don't want to speak too soon. But I think it this is a bit of PTSD coming through from all of us. For sure. We're all showing our pain. Yeah, we've sat through, you know, one of these companies, uh FTX had their name on one of the biggest stadiums in the US. They had commercials with Tom Brady, and uh it was one of them things you just think, you know. And I think a lot of people in this cycle, especially, like a lot of the the guy, the Axiom guys, a lot of the guys who trade these new pairs, they they never sat through that and realized what was happening at the time and how I guess mind-altering that was for uh a lot of the guys in crypto at that time. It's like that day and that week even was just like it's just unbelievable. So yeah, you don't really say you can't really say no to anything anymore. Um, because a lot of us made that promise like we're never gonna get caught in this again.

SPEAKER_04

Like you know the other crazy uh part of this article? I did not know this about Jeff's uh past, but the fact that he like started the first uh prediction markets company, he was a year ahead of Call Shi and Polymarket uh in 2018. Sorry, it was either 2018 or 2019, and then Call Shi like and Polymarket launched the next year. They just it was the market like Bitcoin got destroyed, it was bear market, and they you know they had no way to get users, but like he he had the whole prediction markets concept years before it took off, and it just didn't work. Uh, and then now they're coming out with HLP4, it's like uh coming full circle. But I thought that was fascinating.

SPEAKER_05

I feel like this is definitely everything happens for a reason, and this was definitely the the fucking monster play. Like this is this is bigger than this will be bigger than all the prediction markets. This will be I mean, I don't want to speak too soon, but like Hyperlico just feels like that product is like this is what crypto was meant to be, you know? This is what crypto is meant to be, and uh this is a good thing for our industry. Like probably will be be the biggest product we have, I think.

SPEAKER_04

There was one more quote that I sent you guys or sent you, Sats, that I thought was really like um kind of like prescient for what's to come. And he said, uh, let's see. Oh, he said, people don't say we're internet companies these days. We use crypto, but that doesn't define us. And I felt like that is like kind of the defining thing that we're gonna see in these, you know, in this industry as it grows the next few years is like people are going to build consumer apps, they're gonna build B2B apps, and they're gonna be built on like crypto infrastructure. But there is going to be a point where it doesn't have to be like obviously the stigma around crypto is pretty rough right now. But regardless if it was a bad reputation or not, like the whole thing about crypto being the buzzword is kind of gone. Like AI is the buzzy thing now, but like what was built is lasting and is going to be integrated into a lot of stuff. And so I think they were saying, like, you know, it's only like two people that really have crypto backgrounds on the hype team. Um and that was really encouraging to me.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that was. Yeah, that is crazy. I think it shows though, it shows that um it's it's I remember XY talks a lot about this as well. Like when when big institutional players will come in and and sort of amp everything because they simply just know better than us with our own shit. Like they know what to do better than us than we do. When a JP Morgan or something says they want to do something crazy, they want to build some some actual shit that's gonna change the world, they're gonna do it better than any of the crypto guys could have. Um probably the same in hyperliquid uh idea because they're hiring every guy who's not in crypto to do the job. Um so it is one of them things I think uh sort of outside people are sometimes better than the ones who are in the art industry.

SPEAKER_06

Sometimes then you have companies like Coinbase who just hire a bunch of like Deloitte consultants to go work for them and seem super out of touch.

SPEAKER_05

So yeah, that's a weird one. Kraken do that as well.

SPEAKER_06

Kraken does that as well. Like I know a guy that runs uh uh consumer marketing from Kraken and he comes from a consulting background, and I'll talk to him about things going on in crypto, and he just has no fucking idea.

SPEAKER_05

I don't I don't understand.

SPEAKER_06

And it's like, how do you work in consumer like retail marketing for Kraken and not know fucking anything about what people are doing on chain or like the coins that are listed on your website, on your platform, it just makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_04

Man, Coinbase's Coinbase's whole marketing approach with the prediction market stuff, like especially during March Madness, during the college basketball tournament, was so cringe. It was like, you know, you'd be you'd be getting it was all this stuff happening in you know crypto, which is their core product, and then it's like we get it, you're pushing tokenized equities, cool. You you want to do prediction markets, cool. But like when your finance app is only pushing out six notifications over the weekend and it's all about this, you know, this betting on college sports, it's like guys, that's you can have that feature, but like the way that they were going about it was just so out of touch, you know. Um I don't know, maybe maybe we felt that way, and people outside of the crypto space were like, oh, cool, you can do this now. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_05

But it's it's it's like what people did like what people downloaded Coinbase for isn't that. Didn't know what no one downloaded Coinbase to do that. Um, I think a lot of people download Coinbase to hold like majors safely.

SPEAKER_04

They don't want to get an investment, like an in a portfolio management platform, right?

SPEAKER_05

This is like Fidelity going, guys, I got a few bet slips for you. Like it just doesn't really, it doesn't really add up. Like, oh, I've got a few bets with a basketball where do you always take part? It's like, no, I don't fuck it. Get out of it.

SPEAKER_04

But part of that is like it's because it seems like they don't know their identity themselves. It's like choose the direction. You guys want to go full DJan, you can do that, but like there's other people doing that. You know, you could be one of the bigger players doing that. But then also you're trying to like you know put all these ads like this is where you can have your whole portfolio safely managed, and but also bet on this college basketball game. I don't know, man. You gotta have some direction.

SPEAKER_05

But oh, you want a 50 50 on a college box? Sure. We got you, we got.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I think you're right. Like it's the old saying, like, if if you don't focus on what if if if you try to focus on many things, you'll do nothing well. And I feel like Coinbase is entering, they've kind of always been like that. They're in they're in metaverse shit, they're doing this, they're in prediction market stuff now. It's like focus on your core product, make a good trading platform. The trading platform sucks.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, bro. Coinbase advance literally stinks so badly. I have no good words to say about that. None at all. Setting a limit order is harder than fucking solving nuclear like science, bro. It's fucking hard. So maybe they should fix their fucking limits.

SPEAKER_04

It's not that bad, is it?

SPEAKER_05

Setting a limit order.

SPEAKER_06

Relatively speaking, to it's pretty bad. To hype, for example. Hype is a way better product. And the fucking pay on my god.

SPEAKER_05

I get fleeced, bro. They're like shaking me up by my ankles and all my fucking money's dropping out my pockets when I trade on the my trading ability. It's for the fees.

SPEAKER_06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05

The fees are crazy.

SPEAKER_04

The fees are crazy. Yeah. But then they'll like credit you. They'll, you know, if you if you do a bunch of a bunch of trading on advance, they'll send you something like we credited you this or whatever. And if you actually do the math, you're like, that doesn't cover even a portion of the fees.

SPEAKER_05

No. The final blow for me is they were like, I think I done I got to a certain um volume thing, like a volume limit. And I got an email, and it was like, they were like, Oh, we we have a merch pack for you. And I was like, I'm good.

SPEAKER_06

They sent you a merch pack?

SPEAKER_05

No, I didn't want it. I just I just I just left the platform after that. I was like, it's this is my time. Like I think I done a lot of volume, and I was working out how much fees I paid, and I was like, I got a merch pack for this. I got a merchant. You know what Bybit does? That is the NFT.

SPEAKER_04

That was the NFT playbook. That hit hard, man. Like, you know, if you said if you said you were gonna have a good hoodie with the NFTs, those things would be like a thousand soul floor. Flying off the shelf.

SPEAKER_06

You know, you know what Bybit does for their big for their big dick traders? They send them to fucking F1 in Monaco. Coinbase is out here giving you a sweatshirt. Thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_05

That's what you get. Yeah, that's what you get. What you pay $200,000 of fees this year? Hoodie.

unknown

Hoodie.

SPEAKER_05

Nothing else we can give you, bro. Sorry. Chris is out here getting keyboards, he's getting fucking F1 tickets, getting float around the world. Chris is also trading.

SPEAKER_04

He is trading a lot more sides than you can. A lot more sides than you, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

When Chris showed us his volume, I almost puked in my mouth a little bit.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I just I'm poor. I'm completely poor.

SPEAKER_06

I I I know a couple people that trade that type of volume, and it is the silliest thing in the world to do that and risk that much money. Like you're your your risk tolerance has to be.

SPEAKER_04

If they're doing that kind of volume, they gotta be doing all this like delta neutral stuff, though. There's no way they're just taking positions that large, right?

SPEAKER_06

I'm sure they are. They're a much smarter.

SPEAKER_05

I'd love to have Chris on the pod, bro.

SPEAKER_06

Chris is an Asian degenerate, though.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, but he's fucking great. He is fucking great. Chris is kind of missing.

SPEAKER_06

We should talk to him, actually. We should talk to Chris, and we should also address how he fleeced a swizzle for a bunch of money while we talked to him.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I was I was I was just about to say that actually as well. Yeah. Um yeah. Elephant in the room with Chris.

SPEAKER_06

Elephant in the room with Chris. I still think Chris. I still think Chris. He was the founder.

SPEAKER_04

What was the what was the company he was the founder of Block uh BlockMoy?

SPEAKER_06

BlockFi Block. BlockFi. He was a co-founder of Black Fifth. No, was he co-founder? He was co-founder, yeah. He was one of the first.

SPEAKER_05

Bro, that is one of the craziest stories what no one no one really knows about. Like a lot of people, yeah. A lot of people don't really know BlockFi and what happened there, but crazy. They went down, yeah. They for sure went down.

SPEAKER_04

Was that because of the it was during the Luna stuff?

SPEAKER_05

Or yeah, I think it was three hours capital, no?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, it was combination. All of it was connected. They just got caught in the crossfires.

SPEAKER_05

Bro, I I think I feel like a lot of people don't know the three AC story as well. That's one of the that's one of the best stories in crypto, not for a good reason. But a lot of the new participants are not familiar with the 3AC, Carl Davies. Um those were the best days.

SPEAKER_06

Why I have such fond memories of those days, and I don't have I don't have fond memories of this cycle nearly in the same way. I have fond memories of the ridiculousness of that stuff. Yeah, and maybe that's because I wasn't like tweeting and like doing the shit that I'm doing now, and maybe I like have better memories of it because of that. Uh, but it was the best.

SPEAKER_05

I was a big observer there. I was a big observer. I used to wake up every day, check the check the Suzu, check the Suzu tweets, check his banner, see if his banners changed.

SPEAKER_06

He is a goaded bull poster.

SPEAKER_05

There might be nobody better. There's no one better.

SPEAKER_06

Is there anyone better than him?

SPEAKER_05

No, no, that was big. Every every single move up the super cycle. The super and he had me believe in. I was going, fuck, he's right.

SPEAKER_06

His sticker pack, his sticker pack. There, there's a Suzu uh sticker pack in Telegram of just his bullposts. And it is it is the best. It's the absolute best.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, what did they they they went and they bought a yacht at one point, no? They had a yacht, uh, like a fuck off yacht as well. Like not one of these little shitty ones, they had a massive one.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, they bought it with customer money.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. I think that was like before liquidation. Fuck it, hell, man. And then they went in.

SPEAKER_06

It was sick. It was fucking sick, and somehow they avoided uh penalties in jail. I think they might be on the run still.

SPEAKER_05

No, didn't they make uh that that exchange? No, they they made that exchange this cycle when meme ke season was coming, and they fucking rugged it again and pissed off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, aux yeah, oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

The biggest skin ever. Speaking of guys on the run, and I'm not gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna preface this by saying we know nothing about this. We don't know the facts. Yeah, yeah. All allegedly, and this is someone's life we're talking about, so it's actually a pretty serious it's a very serious thing. Um we're not here to make accusations or anything, but we can't not talk about this. Uh Joe McCann allegedly, people are making people are starting rumors that his fiancee uh died in Tanzania while on a safari, I believe. Well, I don't think that's a rumor. That's confirmed. That's confirmed. Verified she is dead. Uh Joe McCann claims that uh she hung herself in Zanzibar. Um immediately after this, a backlash comes out from her friends, um, even Cardi B today, saying that there's no way that she would have killed herself. Um this is a crazy turn of events. Joe McCann, superstar, famously, famously would tweet out all the time uh it's like uh that's enough. Saul holding 160. Some of my favorite one-liners are from Joe McCann. Um and uh he had a fund, asymmetric, which famously did not perform well uh back half of last year. Got shut down, he was trying to launch a Solana dat or had raised 1.5 billion, I believe.

SPEAKER_05

Crazy as well.

SPEAKER_06

But that got shut down because of the horrendous performance of his fund. Joe McCann is out there living an incredible life still, it seems. He's got a pretty punchable face. I'm not gonna lie. Um I was looking at the pictures, I had never seen him before, I know what he fucking looked like. Um then I looked at his Twitter profile, which was awful. And then I went and looked through him and his uh fiance, I guess, uh former fiance, uh Instagram, and he looks like the worst. Um that said, this is a really serious situation.

SPEAKER_04

He looks like um let's roll this, then we can talk about it.

SPEAKER_02

Action news reporter Cheyenne Corinne is live in the satellite center with the latest Cheyenne. Hi, Sarah and Brian. Yeah, Ashley Robinson, she was actually raised locally in South Jersey, and now her death is making headlines across the world. Well, today we spoke to her family in Delaware who say they aren't getting any answers about what happened to her from officials in Tanzania or her fiance.

SPEAKER_01

My daughter Ashley is no longer here with us, and we're trying to find out why.

SPEAKER_02

On April 5th, influencer Ashley Robinson, who goes by Ashley today on Instagram, was celebrating her 31st birthday in Zanzibar, Tanzania. She was on the vacation with her boyfriend of one year, who popped a question just two days before.

SPEAKER_01

She was starting the next chapter of her life. She called us and FaceTime us to share with us her problem.

SPEAKER_02

Ashley's mother said she never would have expected that less than a week later her daughter would be dead on April 8th. She says Ashley called, saying she and her fiance got into an argument and were moved to separate rooms. The next day she received another call, this time from her fiance.

SPEAKER_01

I said, What happened when and he told me it had been 11 hours prior.

SPEAKER_02

Hours later, the luxury resort the couple was staying at called saying that Ashley passed away. According to the hospital's medical report, Ashley had an unidentified mark around her neck. They wrote, according to her husband, he found she hung herself on the door with several question marks.

SPEAKER_00

Sometimes Joe went back to room with security, and that's how they found her.

SPEAKER_02

As she was also taken to a second hospital who listed her cause of death as cerebral hypoxia by strangulation and suffocation.

SPEAKER_01

She's never done anything that would ever, ever lead me to believe that she would do something to harm herself.

SPEAKER_02

And the family says next they are considering going to Zanzibar themselves.

SPEAKER_05

On the door? What the hell? I've never heard I've never even heard of that. That doesn't even that's a bit of a strange one, allegedly.

SPEAKER_04

And look, guys, we're uh this is a uh a market uh show about the markets and everything. We're not gonna spend a lot of time on this, but yeah, you know, we're not TMZ here. But like it's just, I mean, this is what I mean, it's because we're kind of been in a slow market. I feel like this is not being talked about that much. But like, this is one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Any like, I know there's a lot of people who are probably new to this cycle, and Joe was like a little less prevalent, but like anyone who's been on crypto Twitter in the last four years, uh especially everything revolving the Solana cycle, like he was one of the like he was one of the original kind of like let's say loud vocal Solana bulls, like when it started to do its big run. And you know, basically everyone I know in the trading community has followed his Telegram. Some people, ironically, some people make fun of him, some people really actually, you know, he had this market mercenaries chat that had like 10,000 plus active users that chat would be firing off during bull markets. Um, like, you know, he was one of the he was the famously hit did the bond, you know, like hit the bonk trade, like one of the people that hit it with size. Um, I feel like it it's known that he's a polarizing figure. Some people really disliked him in the space. He's definitely done some stuff that's questionable and has like a mixed reputation. But but I mean, this just goes regardless that we have no idea what happened, but like this would just be beyond anything anyone would have ever imagined.

SPEAKER_06

Being accused of murder while also having your full-time profession being a crypto trader, it's not two things that look good.

SPEAKER_04

No, not good for the industry, not I mean, not good for him, obviously. It's because of the reputation of everything, but like, man, it's crazy. We don't know if it's if it's not true, it's gonna it's gonna mess with this guy's life regardless. If it is true, it's just one of the most insane things I've ever heard. Um but dude, I did a double take. I was scrolling a timeline trying to find more. There's really no verified information on anything. I I can't remember a crazier situation because this is personal, this is different than like FTX blowing up. This is just like a guy everyone knows that is just it's just rattling.

SPEAKER_05

But yeah, it yeah, it's fucking in this fucked situation now. Um, yeah, it's it's it's a weird one. It's an it's that's one I had to double take as well. As I was scrolling, I think someone put it in uh in Jing's lair. Um, and I was like, what the fuck is going on? Um like yeah, I think uh after you after you follow these guys on CT for a long time, you sort of understand semi-who they are, you know. You don't know you don't have a relationship with anything, but you you understand the personalities behind it, and then when these sort of things happen, you're like, you know, I actually knew this guy, you know, like this guy was a big person in the space. Um so it is a bit it is a bit crazy. It's like for example, you feel like you know them, right? Even though you're exactly yeah, it's like if some if if some shit was to happen to Gainesy, it would be like fuck, like this is real shit. Um but yeah, troubling time in the space, troubling time, especially when the market's getting hammered as well. Like, you know, it's uh it's not great, it's not great for him, not great for fucking anyone involved.

SPEAKER_04

I'll I'll say I was particularly rattled. I've I've never met Joe McCann, but like I've been in chats with him, I've talked to the guy. I emailed with him. Uh I invested in the fun back in the day. Like uh I've had interactions, you know, and I'm like, holy shit, man.

SPEAKER_06

This is obviously a situation you wouldn't wish on anybody, and hopefully, you know, there's no nefarious outcome here. And uh things like this. Okay, or if there is, you know, justice is urgent in the manner it should be or not be.

SPEAKER_04

In any case, rest in peace. Uh to Ashley, we feel terrible about the whole situation, but we're gonna move on because we are uh trading podcasts, and you know what happened?

SPEAKER_06

My money hit just hit my Coinbase account, it's time to go trade shitters, boys.

SPEAKER_05

Ah can we get a percentage a percentage downside predicted by by Friday?

SPEAKER_06

On my on on my money that I'm putting in the money, yeah. Well, all right, so first I want to go back to last episode because before the episode ended on Friday, we all took a guess of what was gonna happen next. I said long year longs, Swizzle said long year longs, Sat said down.

SPEAKER_05

Bad one, not a proud moment.

SPEAKER_04

You were right, you were right for a second though, because uh on Sunday, Saturday or Sunday morning, JD Vance said the negotiations didn't work and and Bitcoin did nuke. So you were right for a second, it just it just hung on.

SPEAKER_05

Guys, I have a theory about all this, is why I have a theory. Everyone might call me crazy. Um I think they are trying to set up Vance for the next election. And the way they're doing this is framing Vance to be the guy who went in and saved the negotiations of Iran. If this pulls off, they're gonna say, guys, it was Vance, bro. He saved us going into a new war. Put this guy in. And I think this cycle continues of this public, this public churn out of good Vance content. Um this continues, this ramps up quite heavily. Um that's the prediction. But if it all fails, obviously everything goes to shit. Um and it fails, but that feels like the vibe they go in down. Maybe I'm trying to.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. Sat not only an AI guy now, but also a geopolitical expert still.

SPEAKER_05

Geopolitical expert, prediction guy, prediction market guy, prediction market guy. So yeah, trade with me, guys. No ref link yet.

SPEAKER_04

Ref link soon. We just gotta figure out for where.

SPEAKER_06

Reflink is risk on pod at TriFOMA. That is the only ref link you need to know.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, no prediction markets.

SPEAKER_06

My money, I am going to probably lose 50%. Let's go. But I'm gonna valiantly try.

SPEAKER_05

Um what are you actually gonna trade here?

SPEAKER_06

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_05

You're gonna trade on-chain, yeah. You're gonna trade on chain.

SPEAKER_04

I'm gonna trade on-chain.

SPEAKER_06

I'm gonna trade on-chain shutters. What lost?

SPEAKER_04

Did you guys see um speaking of on-chain? Did you guys see this genius token launch yesterday?

SPEAKER_06

Yes. No, and it looked very eerily similar to another token I lost a lot of money on, so I stayed away.

SPEAKER_05

Asta?

SPEAKER_06

I'm not a different one.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, is it wasn't it similar to Asta? Wasn't it why Y Z I Labs?

SPEAKER_06

It was similar to it's backed by the same people as Astra, and that was the whole thesis, but the liquidity is like nothing. It's like a $500 million FTV with 200k of liquidity.

SPEAKER_04

Oh no. I saw something about someone did like on-chain analysis, and they're because they said something about the like it was only 20% Circ, something like that, and then they someone looked it up. I don't have the tweet, so I can't pull it up, but they were like, Yeah, it's actually closer to 2% in circulation.

SPEAKER_05

That's I'm telling you right now, that's a classic YZI playbook. I don't want to put them on the fire block here, but this is they've done exactly the same thing.

SPEAKER_06

Double zero.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. They go, Oh guys, it's 20% circ. You start to dig in 4%, 4% suck. You're chatting shit. Yeah, oh bro, double zero. I don't even think they they didn't even try and hire, I think they just said it was 20% and then just nuked all their supply. Um, I don't even think they were asked.

SPEAKER_04

So I saw people top blasting this yesterday. I mean, let's see where it's at right now. Um because it ran up to like 600 million FDV, I want to say, not market cap. Genius token. Which one would it be? What does it do? Do I want to know the product? Is it one of the things you just don't check the product ever? Uh they said it's like a new decentralized exchange. It's it's it's basically here. I I pulled it up on the notes.

SPEAKER_05

Uh the final on-chain terminal.

SPEAKER_04

So this is the axiom of BNB. So let me read it to you. Multi-eight figure investment from YZYZI Labs. Uh CZ is an advisor. That's the Aster comparison. Routes orders across 150 plus DEXs via the Genius Bridge protocol. So that's the product. Uh, ghost orders, um, which are MPC. I don't know what this is. NPC splits trades across up to 500 wallets for on-chain privacy. So basically, a DEX aggregator that just fills your orders privately through this. Sounds like something SATS would be into, to be honest.

SPEAKER_05

I was gonna say that sounds pretty fucking cool, actually.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, trades splits trades across up to 500 wallets for on-chain privacy. Um, it's apparently the product has been out for a while because it says it hit 2 billion plus weekly volume in January of 2026. So people have been farming it. Well, we just never heard of it.

SPEAKER_05

2 billion.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know if that's real. I I feel like I always hear about these things at when the token launched, the day of TGE, and then all of a sudden it's like people out of nowhere, oh yeah, we've been farming this for two months, whatever. And I'm like, bro, no one even knew this existed. Who who was farming this? We're hearing about it today, you know. But apparently, yeah, it says two billion, two billion weekly volume. That was for a specific week in January of 2026. Allegedly. Never happened. That definitely did not happen.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I can safely say not even allegedly that never happened. Um too Billy, bro. To do them sort of volume nowadays in this market, you gotta be fucking.

SPEAKER_04

There's no way because if that happened, everyone's talking about it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_04

The three of us are, I would not say we're like the most most locked in, but we know what's happening. We would know, we have heard of this.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and I would have more than 26 mutuals with the fucking account.

SPEAKER_06

Guys, why is Coinbase charging me a $10 fee for an incoming wire? That is ridiculous. Welcome to the first of many. I've never noticed that before. I have only I only wire the money once. That's Rad Fi, baby. Aren't you supposed to spend? No, but I should be paying my bank to send the wire. Coinbase doesn't fucking do anything, they just get the wire, it goes to my account.

SPEAKER_05

This is the first of many. Brian is currently rinsing your pocket. You know what I said earlier when they're turning you up by and shaking you by the legs and all your money's coming out of your pocket? That's what Brian's doing to you right now.

SPEAKER_06

And all that I get in exchange is a button with a picture of a pretty looking, probably AI woman named Ashley who says Coinbase concierge change. The concierge thing, yeah, that you'll never use.

SPEAKER_04

I do think this is like Coinbase has the incredible first mover advantage of their like the um the American company that is like a legitimate, credible crypto exchange. So they can kind of do anything here because the average person is just like they're not gonna go use the alternative. Like they're not gonna yeah. So they've got this massive like regulatory moat almost where they're they're buddied up uh to the US government and they've got a huge advantage. They can they can charge these fees.

SPEAKER_05

I don't fucking know. They just make they they're I sometimes think like you know how much money these guys make, it's just completely unfathomable. Like just no other business operates like them.

SPEAKER_04

And this is why they've been they've been the ones holding up this Clarity Act uh for uh crypto regulation also because like the big thing has been about like issuing yield on stable coins, and they're like they they don't want to lose out on another another chance to slice and dice here. They need they need that revenue.

SPEAKER_05

So that is big as well. Like I used to love like back in the day, I used to love that 4.10% on all your uh USDC completely unlocked in Coinbase.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, that's probably well because but and that's the thing, is like peep if you can do that, it's very attractive to onboard money onto the platform, and then they can keep charging these fees with every other thing that you do on the platform. Yeah. Right. So it's definitely a big magnet to hold your money on there.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. You need to be a big Coinbase guy. He's been fleeced and now it's fucked up.

SPEAKER_06

I've been fleeced. I just scheduled a call with someone else who fleeced me. Uh, so you know, let's go. Calls with fleecers.

SPEAKER_04

Guys, vibes should be better. Bitcoin up, 10%. Vibes are good. Bitcoin's up.

SPEAKER_06

Sailor just launched the world's greatest Ponzi, the best Ponzi that's ever been fucking created. We're going up Bitcoin to half a million dollars. I'm fucking sidelined. Let's go.

SPEAKER_05

Wait, does that call involve uh the guys who fleeced us as well?

SPEAKER_06

Nope, not you. Different fleecers. Different fleecing. Different fleers. Different fleecing. Different fleecers.

SPEAKER_04

To be fair, there were a lot of options for that. We get we we got fleeced a shit fair fair amount of times throughout the last poll.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, we did. Valiant, valiant effort, guys. We'll live to tell the tale.

unknown

Oh man.

SPEAKER_06

Um, all right. Uh we'll be back Friday, 12 o'clock Eastern. Another episode of Risk On. Prices will be up, vibes will be up. Uh I will no longer be sidelines, and I will have 5x my money on chain.

SPEAKER_05

Big. Massive.

SPEAKER_06

Uh Swizzle will be still trading bitch size. Sats will still be a bitch.

SPEAKER_05

Real shit.

SPEAKER_06

Uh we'll be back. Uh go download FOMO. Uh today, promo code RISCON. Trade with me, watch me lose half my money, and uh we'll be back Friday. See you guys.

SPEAKER_05

Goodbye, guys.