ALT SZN AT LAST | EP 65

Covering:

• Mark Cuban says bye-bye Bitcoin
• HYPE / NEAR / ZEC alt szn while BTC chops
• Why David Hoffman sold all his ETH
• A deep dive into the Risk On watchlist

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Speaking of ETH asteroid guys.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Oh man, it was coming.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

We're getting right into it, huh?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Oh man. That's um it's been a rough. It's all fake news. It's phony stuff. It didn't happen.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

We don't want to hear about it. We don't want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Look, so Swizzle slipped out the door before me. Um yeah, Swizzle slipped out the door before me when it lost 100 mil. I slipped out the door recently. Um I think price actually's out two now. I am out too. Yeah, you kind of convinced me to get out as well. But like you once you when you said, oh, I've sold a hundred mil. Um he told me he sold a hundred mil by the way when it was at 60.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

So okay, so let's take the message saying he sold.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Let's make let's let's have a little, let's let's have a short round of confessions, and then we are going to give Wood his opportunity to have a nice little victory lap one time. Okay. We're we are going to give you the floor for approximately 30 to 60 seconds. Just let us let us clear the air here. So I do have to apologize to Sats because I was with him. I was with this guy. He's in my city. Yeah, we went to a sporting event together. We were sitting at the game for what three hours? We had a good time. We had some dinner before, we're probably with each other for four hours. Yeah. And it didn't come up. It just didn't come up. I had happened to, I saw I lose 100 million. And in def in my defense, I think we had all agreed that was kind of a line in the sand.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

That was it was a line.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

So before the game, before I met up with Sats, I did cut because I was just like, man, this just looks too bad. I'm gonna take the L. I'm gonna get out of here. But then we were having a good time. I forgot about it. We weren't thinking about it. And then we got home and it was probably at like 70 million right then.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

We were having a great time. Then I checked the price and I was like, Well, I'm having a bad time. I'm having a real time.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Sats text me, he thought it was in uh solidarity, like, okay, we can complain about this together, and I was like, Oh shit, dude, yeah, I forgot to tell you, I'm out. I'm already out.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

So yeah, I ended up selling at like 75 75 mil, taking the taking the loss. Decent, you know, I think that's probably us sexing the chart. Um, yeah, I I had some I had some some size in there, which uh maybe too much in the grand scheme of things, but you know, we live and we learn. Um yeah, I think that that red candle um before was was probably me, you know. That was a bit of me, but you know, game's a game. On to the next, uh on to the AI season.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

It's potentially alt season, uh, and we're gonna talk about that later. But it also we also might be watching Bitcoin die a quick and painful death here at the same time. But let's give the floor to Wood. Let's let Wood die because you know what? The guy the guy was right again. You gotta add.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Do you guys remember two episodes ago when I said, you know what happens if this chart loses a hundred? How it's gonna look. And you guys said it won't, it'll be fine. And also, uh, Swizzle, you did tell Sats about it losing a hundred and that you were worried. I found this from Sunday night. Okay. And Sats goes for fucking hanging on for dear life. And Sats still didn't sell. So Swizzle, you did you did sell it.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

So this was on this was Sunday night. Yeah, late Sunday night. So I sold, I think I sold Monday morning. I think I sold Monday morning. Uh I'm sorry, Sats. I I shouldn't, I shouldn't have let you leave, left you there to hang. I thought we were on the same page when I sent that. That it was up to the page.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

No, no, I I should have sold, I should have sold. I should have sold, but I looked at the chart and I was like, you know what? This could be the bottom, and I could sell the bottom here, and it's gonna ruin my fucking week if I sell the bottom and it rips. And then uh I checked, you know, a few hours later, boom, 75 male, 80 male. I was thinking, oh fuck. I'm I'm in for a I'm in for a heavy one here, but yeah, I sold, you know, game's a game.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

So does my telegram still say poor in parentheses? It does.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

I think that's what always got you saved as is the comment.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

It's not it's not wrong, but I didn't know. I didn't know that's what I showed up to people as.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So last thing I'm gonna say about asteroid, then we can all move on. Here we go. This is how bad it is, you know, is that I removed asteroids from my watch list like five or six days ago. Damn, like I just stopped even watching it. I was like, it's so over, no one's talking about it's doing like $1.5 million of volume. It's an absolutely worthless dog shit token. And I just removed it from my watch list and said, This is not even worth my mental like time to understand and watch this. And I got rid of it. And you telling me it was at 60 mil is just news to me. I didn't even know because you know why? Don't even need to know. It's around. No one's even caring except for your pocket.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I've seen a few people over the last 24 hours out there tweeting bottom. So there's there's a few hanging on. I don't know how at this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

I don't know how. Honestly, a few months ago, like six months ago, I would have been on the timeline. Asteroid bottom, guys, get in, get in, get in. But no, I haven't got I haven't got the faith in it anymore. I you know what I kind of do, it'll all matter if Elon tweets or something happens with his asteroid shit, but like liquidity sad though.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Well, fortunately, there are a lot of other interesting tokens for us to get excited about and talk about that and Wood is gonna bear post all of those, also. He's gonna take the same stance on all of them. And uh I'm gonna be the bull, man. I'm yeah, I'm ready to hang on here and and be the delusional optimist. So we got we got a chance to run it back.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Fuck is that noise? Someone just started printing something right next to me.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Yeah, we're trying to print print the asteroid. No, it wasn't us, it wasn't just printing on our asteroid bags.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

I think anyone else my wife is just printing stuff next to me, not realizing I'm on a very important podcast around. She's fucking up all of my audio.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Oh man, does she just sometimes print out stuff to tell you stuff like in the day? That would be fucking.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Do you know what it is, Wood? I actually, before the show, I sent your wife the risk on alt season watch list, and she's ready to print because alt season watch list.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

We're gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. So we'll be in the world like that. So BTC. So I mean, yeah, we'll we'll talk about it. You know, BTC is about to die. Um I've never seen such like sadness and despair on the timeline.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Like, um, I'm gonna pull up this tweet. Our boy, no, sorry, not that one, Henry. Our boy Rex has been tweeting bear posting like nothing I've ever seen. Oh my god, she's printing something. She's tweeting the Rex again. Are you kidding me? So Rex is bear posting, like nothing I have ever seen. Nothing this tweet summarizes all of crypto right now. Like everyone's like, go by memory, go by semiconductors, go by anything. This is kind of me, honestly. Um, but like, then you got but at the same time, you've got hype, Zek, Near, all ripping. Yeah. Um, so you get and then like those people are equally as annoying. I mean, dude, they're there, they're still up multiples from where they were two weeks ago. Yeah, but like you got like the C-lons and the Jords and like the hype bulls. She's looking pretty good. This is incredible. Fucking incredible. I gotta text her to stop. Um sorry. So you got you got so you got like on one end, you've got all those people who are mega bearish, like the Rexes, who are very annoying. And then you got all the mega bold people who are who caught like a two, who caught like a 70% move on near and are like, oh, I'm the fucking man. Like, I should start a paid telegram group. Um, and you got Swizzle calling all-season. So, Swizzle, you have a long list of coins you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Not a long list of wins, a long list of not a long list of things.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

No, to be fair, no, no, here was my here was my idea for the show is there's a lot like this is the first time we've had in a in a few months where there is shit to talk about. Like, yeah, you can be bearish, you can be bullish, that's fine. But I think the reason we want to do it, man, how long has it been since we've done a show where we can actually pull up a list of tokens, we can pull up charts, and we can say, hey, it's relevant. There's like legitimate mind share here. And for once, we don't know what's gonna happen. They could all die tomorrow if if Bitcoin, you know, loses. I don't know what its line. It's like that's it, that's a big problem. And yet, you kind of are seeing Bitcoin dominance go down a little bit, everyone seems fed up with it. Usually, what that has meant is like everyone's just out on everything. But now you're kind of seeing the shift where it's like there's clear consensus on a number of tokens. We're not talking about meme coins, we have a fresh narrative. Like we have a I won't say fresh, but a revitalized narrative, and we've got a concentration of like like like thematic uh like focus going on. And I think it's important we go through it, we decide we risk on or we risk off on these things. Um because it's it's a fair debate at this point.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yeah, I think so too. I think we want to start with Bitcoin though, because like there has been, I mean, dude, there was like 2.6 billion sold yesterday in Bitcoin and like one clip in Dark Pools.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

What so what happened with the Dark Pools thing? Do either of you understand? Because uh maybe we can pull that up. Uh the the ETF seller who wants to obfuscate who they are selling uh right, but some people were saying that it's doesn't necessarily mean it was all selling, like that could have been selling and buying, or or sure it looks like it was selling.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

There you go. Yeah, selling more sellers, more selling than buying.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

It all happened at like 10 30 a.m. It was like a $1.3 billion block or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

And then there was another block late last night, though, too. Oh, really? Yeah, there were two blocks. That was wicked down below 75k. I'm tapped in on anything negative as it pertains to big big negative guy.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Oh god, Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

But you know, so that that happened. Um, it was massive. Um and then today, you know, you see Bitcoin kind of falling off a cliff, and you got everyone bare posting. I guess something a real conversation thing. Mark Cuban, everyone clowned on Mark Cuban. They said he was called he was the bottom. He was he saw he said he sold all his Bitcoin because it's lost the plot. I kind of agree with him.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

I think there's a lot of people that agree with this, right? Yeah, right. I kind of agree with that. There's merit to it. There's merit to it.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah, like I'd rather own other assets in crypto. Like Bitcoin is boring to me. Like, what is the next catalyst or like use case for Bitcoin going up? Everything Bitcoin was gonna do, I think it probably is already done. Like, there's no why am I gonna hold Bitcoin? Yeah, it's had government adoption, it's not quantum resistant, it's not fucking private.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

It's slow, we can't transact.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Well, I think I'd rather say like people used to like there was people who are further out in the risk curve, us, who were like, Well, you know, we're gonna use Bitcoin as a proxy, it's obviously the superior asset, and like we just hope for alt season because we can outperform or whatever the basket vaults. But that was like with an understanding that like Bitcoin is the asset to own. Like ultimately you're trying to do that so you can stack more Bitcoin. That's not how people are talking about it now. Like it's what you said, would where it's like yeah, what's what's the upside compared to the downside on on Bitcoin? Like, sure, maybe it's a little less volatile, but there's just no there's no bid. Like crypto natives are interested in these other assets, yeah, like not as a mechanism to stack more Bitcoin. They're they're genuinely interested in these other assets. A few of them, not a lot, where they they may see a better long time horizon viewpoint on like just the possibility of of greater returns for something else.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, and I don't blame them. I don't blame them. Like, I think none of us here hold Bitcoin anymore, do we?

SPEAKER_02 12:51

I hold some of it, but like if you were to say to me, would you rather own Bitcoin or hyperliquid?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, hyperliquid, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

It's not even really close, right? It's not even close. It's not even really close.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

And that's a really big problem for Bitcoin. And like how like they're gonna have to do they they've gone this far without really innovating or building, but I think like for it to continue forward.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, basically on her team, you know, there's no guys going let's build a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Well, I think part of that is there's been so much focus on like institutionalization of crypto, institutionalization of Bitcoin. Like everyone has been so focused on that for what, like two years now. And it's like, okay, that's actually happening. But the the at the end of the day, the reality is like crypto as an industry is has been a retail-driven industry, and retail has no interest in Bitcoin right now. But like there's just not a lot of reason to. Like they're interested in tech stocks, they're interested in AI and robotics, they're interested in some altcoins, yeah. Uh that are specific plays, specific narratives. But like I don't know what's the case, what like what's the case to be interested in Bitcoin right now, even if you agree it's a store of value, a long-term store of value. The digital gold argument, sure. But is that something retail is super excited about?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah, digital gold has always been a funny argument. It's like that's what Sailor lives by. Yeah, what happens to Sailor? Fuck man.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I also just hate what Sailor's doing to it. Yeah, just like creating like a Ponzi that clearly is gonna fail at some point. He's breaking Bitcoin, bro.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I might be a little less less extreme than you guys, where I'm not actually bearish Bitcoin. Like, I still think I I think overall the thesis is intact, other than the Sailor stuff concerning me. I just think there's better assets to hold. While I can still agree with that, I I think everything is true that we've believed about Bitcoin for a long time. It just hit a point of maturation where it's like, okay, I I'm gonna look for for better opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, yeah. Who else is like a better one?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I was gonna say, does Rex hold his fucking Bitcoin? Like, bro, I've seen I saw some tweet that went viral from Rex the other day. Yeah, and it was it literally said crypto is a dying asset class and it had 5k likes.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

And I was like he does, he's he said that stuff for years. He bossed Bitcoin, he just complains about it every day.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah, he also tweeted out that uh in the tweet I just shared, he said instead of rotating into stocks, I just bought a bunch of Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, what's going on? Yeah, but that's just how we use it. He's just like I think he's just projecting. That's just how we use it.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah, yeah. But um, I don't know. Speaking of losing faith in your asset, the bankless guys are out on ETH.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Did you guys now that is crazy? That is crazy. Did you guys read the article?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I didn't, no. What is the what's the consensus here?

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Consensus is that ETH failed at its mission to become money, basically. Which I didn't know ETH was trying to become money, first of all. I was reading this, I was reading this, and he was like, he was basically talking about how uh it failed at its core mission, and um it tried to innovate a bunch, it did too much innovation, none of it really stuck and worked, and it just failed.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Um you guys watch their podcast? I feel like would I feel like you'd be a bankless guy?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

That is maybe the meanest thing anyone's ever said to me. People have said a lot of mean things to pretend you're a bankless guy.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

But are you not? Are you not a bankless guy?

SPEAKER_02 16:22

No, I'm not. Last cycle, when there was like so like the a big reason why I s why I wanted to do this show was because of how fucking horrible bankless was, actually. Like a big the big reason for wanting to do this was the lack of content. I like tried listening to bankless, and it was so horrible. They were so insufferable, they were like not relatable, they were nerdy, they were like it felt scripted and forced. Um and they just seemed like tools, like guys I wouldn't want to be friends with. So, anyways, um not a bankless. Fuck. I I you know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

I'm guessing we're not getting David Hoffman on the pod.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, yeah. We can't have him come on and speak about why he sold his ETH. Fuck. Just cussed him out.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I didn't cuss him out. I just, you know, the the maybe he's maybe he's matured, although he's probably older than me.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I don't, I don't, I I never really listened to them. Uh I don't I don't know like the history on them as much, other than you know, I know they've always been the big ETH proponents. But as someone who hasn't watched a lot of episodes of theirs over the years, I'll put it kind of what you're saying would, I'll put it a little more delicately. I started reading this article. Then I after the first two paragraphs, I was like, I'm gonna skim it. And about three quarters, halfway to three quarters of the way, I said, I'm not reading this. Because ultimately, what this reads as is like a okay, we're gonna like dress this up and use a bunch of big words and use a hyper sophisticated explanation of what this whole this is what the Ethereum shit has been since you know 2022, where it's like there's this like hyper intellectualization aspect of crypto that it's like you guys don't understand, this is why Ethereum's superior, etc. etc. And now even those people are agreeing they were wrong to the very, very obvious things that we all us us retail normies pointed out, but they still have to dress it up with all these words. It's like, guys, like this is not what it just it just is not, like it's been obsolete for years. Like, what are we talking about? This whole hyperintellectualized argument. Like, this is not news.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

You guys are just number didn't go up.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Yeah, number hasn't gone up for a reason, it's obsolete. Like, no one no one uses it anymore. They and the network never improved, yeah. You know, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

What do you think they're gonna talk about now on their show? Oh, they can't talk about ETH.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Well, I think in the comments, he someone asked him, What are you doing now that you're out of ETH? And they he responded and said Zek and Nier.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Oh he's privacy guys, he's in this whistle's bag. He's in this whistle's bag.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

I think he's I think he's right, but I think it's uh maybe not for the right reasons, it's just the it's the herd mentality, you know. Or I don't know, maybe they'll find a way to intellectualize that in a way I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Zach already intellectualizing Zach. I think that's already well underway.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

That's bullish. Yeah, but but those people were late and just entered. Nah, those are like the thesis is very simple, actually. Yeah, um, there's gonna be a lot, you know, as soon as something gets talked about more and more, you know, there's always gonna be uh it's gonna get dressed up in different ways for sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah. Um guard had one of my favorite GWART is so fucking funny. Do you guys follow Guart?

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

This made me laugh so much. That Bengus guy is gonna look like an idiot when ETH runs a $2,300.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah, all the ETH guys will be clamming him. You sold the bottom, bro.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

What is ETH at right now? I didn't even I don't know. I don't even uh ETH, like asteroid is not on my watch list.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

It is uh 2k. So he's saying $300 rally here.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

ETH is uh ETH is right below asteroid on Wood's watch list.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

It's not not even there. Um yeah, so I I I don't know. I I I'm curious where they go next and if the Zec Foundation is gonna start, you know, lobbying through the bankless guys. I hope not. If they become the face of Zec, I I, you know, I could get behind that, bro.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

These guys get these guys are generally seats. Yeah, they do, they do. I would love to do that. I will say this. So I will say this.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

This is one thing that's interesting. This doesn't necessarily justify, like this would not be like a justified valuation bump, but it is crazy to think with all the mindshare of how negative things have gotten for ETH, and now there's like consensus, the final ETH supporters are like capitulating here. Today, it's down whatever, you know, 20% on the year. ETH's market cap today is $247 billion.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

And Zek is give it to me.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Eight or ten? I think it's nine. Yeah, nine.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

That's a lot of money that could flow into Zek.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

I like the sound of my bags.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

That's a really bad like logical argument for us to say, well, ETH is worth that much, so Zek should be worth that much. No, that like that's probably not the case. But uh it is interesting if you think about like, you know, is there it sounds so insane. It sounds so crazy to think could ETH not be like just permanently in this top two, but like everyone in the industry agrees that it's it it shouldn't be the de facto number two uh like asset right now. At least at least it shouldn't be just this uh this massive gap. Um I've I think it's a pretty fascinating thing to consider.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

The dumbest people you know. Well, he's talking about me and Swizzle right here.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

He's targeting us. How did this make you feel? Saying Gainesy's. I I think Swizzle, you sent this to us with a chud meme. And I couldn't tell if you were bold up about this or if you were like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Well, I think Gainesy's a good guy. It was concerned. Really? No, man. I think I think Gainesy, a Gainesy tweet's a good tweet. That's a hot opinion, maybe. And I know a lot of people, controversial opinion on Gainesy, but I think he's good.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

People, I'm with you, but I think it's because of the like type of like trader I was two cycles ago and what I like traded and how Gainesy was. And yeah, like he was there weren't that many KOLs last cycle or two cycles ago.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Gaines was right. With Gainesy Bob.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Gainesy was one of them.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Gainesy was one of them. And I liked Gainesy back then.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yeah, same. I remember he came out of his Jewish chain and shit, like he got doxed. The first docs picture with him was with this uh this diamond uh star of David, I think. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

But I don't know. I I I I like the Zec narrative. I actually think I will start to allocate the Zack in the near future, guys. I think this is a welcome moment.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

By the way, I can I can I say something about Gainesy? Um we talked about bankless and like how everyone did or didn't watch them or whatever. I don't even know where to find Gainesy's. Is it I assume it's like a live stream, the same as Pump Fun. Um he does it on Pump Fun. So I didn't even know where to find it. But I will say I watch those clips. If they go around my my through my timeline, I'm like, they're usually very entertaining clips.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

You can agree or disagree, but he's he's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah, when he speaks about the past, the crypto like past cycles. I'm like, I think it's because that we all remember what was going on as well when he's like talking about what happened and shit. It's like, oh yeah, I remember when this is a good thing. He's a great storyteller. He's a great storyteller. He's a very good storyteller. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So I do want to get to our list of coins, but there's also a couple other things to talk about that I think are important. Um one, all did you guys see that tweet about all of DeFi being unsafe? Yeah, I did. Buy this like super OG guy to send it in, toss it up there.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, I've been sort of moving my money for a while. Like, I obviously I've held DeFi since I kind of made money in in uh crypto. I've been sort of moving everything out over this past like month or so.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

You have been.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

I have been, yeah. I remember we had that, we had that talk on here once.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

On on air, and that was your that was the moment for you.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, because I I got off and I was like, Wait, yeah, like why why am I doing this now? Like it doesn't even make any sense. Um the only reason is to keep it off-chain, which I can do like outside of DeFi anyway. Um on chain, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Sat's gone off the podcast with SeaMeister and he goes, damn, I gotta get my money off kelpdow.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah. Gotta get off kelp Dow. Gotta go gotta get off the sketchy ones. But no, I'm uh I I I'm mostly out now. I'm probably like only 10% of my portfolios in uh in DeFi now. The rest I actually don't even know what to do with it at the moment. I'm literally sat in dead phantom wallets, just uh I'm gonna call the North Koreans and they'll figure it out for you. Yeah, yeah, they'll figure it out for me. Yeah, tell them guys to take it.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

And yeah, but back to like the ETH thing, just kind of connecting all that together. Like if DeFi is dead, like if people really think that DeFi can't overcome this stuff, then ETH is truly fucking dead in the water. Because that was its like last remaining use case.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

I feel like yeah, and uh I saw I think a crazy amount of their like actual like funds on chain is in DeFi, like an absolutely obscene amount, yeah. So it could get you know, basically gonna take a long time. This will this will be something that happens over the next three or four years or so. Like, I don't think this this is something that happens in six months or something like that, but yeah, I don't know where ETH goes.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Well, the the this other like kind of connected thing here with like AI kind of you know gonna be able to find all vulnerabilities is came out recently about um AI feel that all the time AI is really fucking expensive. Did you guys see this?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

How Uber CEO came out and basically said, you know, we need to cut back into AI. Usually it's more expensive to use AI than it is to use humans right now. As AI as a as a podcast that branded ourselves as an AI podcast for about one week.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yeah, five, six days.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah, five, six, five, six days. I think this is interesting to talk about though. Um because I know a lot of crypto guys pivoted to being AI guys. I still have my my uh unopened Mac Mini, so I'm a future AI guy. Um not there yet. But what do you think this means, I guess, for AI? Like you just keep seeing, like we keep seeing it, it feels not bubbly. Uh but uh XY wrote a really long thing about this too.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

How long he did really I actually read that one, I read more of that than the David Hoffman article. It was a really good tweet, actually. It was good.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I didn't read this one.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

His thesis, he's basically saying, like, it's so fucking expensive that AI is gonna operate more like a commodity, like like uh airplane companies. He compares it to the first airplane companies, saying, like, they're terrible businesses, but we need it and they improve the world greatly. That does not make it a good business, yeah. And I wonder if AI will end up being the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

But my thing is on that sets. With these two companies, uh especially Uber. What the fuck are Uber using AI for to build right now? What are they using it for internally? Like, I actually don't know. Like, they're not fucking building anything, they're not really I don't I don't I don't know what they're using AI for or what's making it so expensive.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Microsoft figure it out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, and that's the thing they have to, yeah. Everyone else is doing it, so we gotta do it. They do have to figure it out, but it's like you know, you don't have to spend fucking trillions, like you have to spend loads of money to to figure it out. It's a slow thing, especially with that size of company. It takes so long to implement things. It's like when companies try and change CRM, like this shit takes like a year to adopt internally. Like it's gonna take a long time to figure out where it's gonna fit in, but like to say you're gonna stop using it or like cut back because it's expensive, I feel like it's a mistake. Like, I think if you're if it's fucking expensive right now, you're maybe using it in the wrong spot, or it's just not being adopted correctly internally, which I think is gonna happen with a lot of these big companies, but yeah, Microsoft is a bit different, like they're yeah, stopped all their devs from from using clawed code um at all. Are they are they allowing uh codecs though? Like, what's the situation there? Are they banning AI completely or like is it just anthropic clawed shit?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Well, I had Henry pull this up because I thought this is this is the other, the flip side of the curve is like you've got all these startups raising at crazy valuations, right? And if you've got the AI, the right AI buzzwords, or whatever, it's like these companies can't get funded fast enough. You always see there's some type of like bubble where it turns out a lot of this stuff was frothy in retrospect, but what's the reason for it? And I think now we're seeing like the fear from VCs of realizing, oh man, we might have gotten a little eager here. And like, yes, some of this technology is revolutionary, but to XY's point, they're not all gonna be great businesses just because the technology is incredible. And now it's like I think the other thing about AI that we've seen firsthand here is like all of a sudden you have all these tools where people can basically fluff metrics and find a way to artificially gain metrics in ways that weren't really feasible like a year ago, right? Now it's like easy, you know. We we all knew about you could look at a Twitter account and know if there was botted followers, but now there's like a whole nother level of this where it's like you can you can get this uh you know essentially artificially contracted uh ARR and like make your company look like it's it's gonna be profitable or have a bunch of cash flow coming in when that may not be the case. Yeah, and yet it's really hard to like uh find the line of like what about this whole phenomenon in Rush is very real and like you need to be spending money on it as a company, you need to be leaning into it. There's an aspect to that for sure, but there's also another aspect of like, man, you can waste a lot of money on this, you can get deceived very easily on this. Um, you could if you're an executive at a company, you have to figure out you know what exactly you you know your employees are using it for, um because the token burn is crazy. It's like I think we're just starting now to realize there's a lot of problems, there's a lot of great things that are coming from it, and there's also a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, I think with a lot of these VCs, they got stuck in the situation of there were so many companies solving for problems that actually didn't exist. They just sounded sexy on paper, and then these companies got funded, they funded their seed rounds, and then they were like, Okay, we we've actually raised money now, we've actually got to go do it. Um, but there's actually we don't solve a fucking problem, so there's no users, so we're gonna have to inflate our users and fucking hope for the best. I think that's that's where we are right now. We're on the edge of that and it becoming a reality of founders realizing they don't actually have a problem and trying to pivot into different problems that actually don't exist as well. So I think the VC world is definitely interesting with this whole AI stuff. And I think we've seen like over this past like few weeks, bro, these guys these guys love an AI. They love AI.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

You go to any single any single like top VC firm uh and you go through the team list and all the partners and investors and everything, whatever their previous like area of focus was, it might have been consumer, it might have been fintech, it might have been SaaS, whatever. Now it says those things, and then it also says AI. Everyone's an AI investor. Yeah, and no one was the middle. Um I I think you gotta be careful. Like to me, the question is if I was to be evaluating any one of these private deals, if I had access to it, I I think my question would be like, okay, this is cool. Why why can uh chat like OpenAI or Anthropic not do this? Yeah, like why can't I use Anthropic for this? Yeah, uh, and if it's not today, why can't they do that in two weeks from now? You know?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah. Um quite literally. This is where I think the problem is. Like a lot of these, especially the YC companies. I know it's like their batch has been coming out, and it you know, it feels like it's either um we had that gambling card, like you spend, and then randomly this company will cover one of your purchases. That was one of the YC companies, and the rest have felt like AI rappers, you know, AI chat GPT rappers. And I don't understand how that gets through. Like, how does that like if that came across our table here? Yeah, how did if I I would be like, guys, okay, what's the back end? Anthropic, like we're using Claude. So you've just thrown a sexy UI on top and then you call it a day. And it's like, yeah. It's like, I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Like you know how it you know how this is happening, Sats. Uh is we have guys like Tristan Thompson and Kyle Kuzma who are writing fat checks to everything.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Yeah, yeah. Big angels now.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Big angels now. Big Angels who got cuz yesterday saying he's gonna break us out to discuss the future of AI. I've been rubbing my. I don't know Kyle Kuzma. I don't know. He could be the smartest guy in the world. I know absolutely nothing about Kyle Kuzma. His tweets have been impressive. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

You know, he's clearly been he's clearly been educating himself. Tagging Sam Altman is funny. Let me know if you want to meet after.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Much to disgust.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Much to disgust.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

We got an expert on AI. Sam, tap in. He's going uh XY mode on these tweets. He is not writing a spot.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

What's his profile picture? He looks he's he's got the he's got the VC leg cross going. He's got the little microphone. This guy's been around the block.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, yeah. He's got the blazer, the blazer in the t-shirt under. He's really going for it. He's really going for it. He's seriously against it. This is an AI guy. This is an AI guy. This is your AI.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

It's a Miami boutique AI investment fund type of eye.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

You actually hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what it is.

unknown 35:06

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Pops into San Fran for a few days to see what's going on. Meet Sam Altman and dip out, feed some information back into the the new world. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

No shade, man. No shade. Yeah, no shade.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

He's probably killing it. He's probably killing it. Like, he probably hit it. What probably happened here is he probably hit a few like good private deals, and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm up. Like, time to get involved, like, time to get really involved.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

And then a lot of this comes down to deal flow, man. I mean, he's got engagement on all this, he's he's getting the brand out, partner up with some people and who are in different areas than you. Got the deal flow. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Oh, someone starts flying. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Might be the bet, the next Warren Buffett.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

The next Warren Buffett. If Cal Guzm became the next Warren Buffett, that would be incredible. The Miami boutique investment firm Warren Buffett. Um absolutely incredible. Um all right. So, hype guys, look well, we're gonna get to the list now. Hype is obviously looking so fucking good. Yeah. Did you guys see hype ETFs absorb one percent of hype's market cap in the first 10 trading days?

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah, it's absolutely insane, man. There's so much demand for this thing. Like demanding.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

What exactly does that mean though? Uh people bought 1% of hype via the ETF in the first 10 days of trading.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

So, but the ETF like held it in a pool. Like how I guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

I it's the same thing as like buying Bitcoin through iBit.

unknown 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

You buy iBit and I think it's just a handle up question of the demand on the token.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah, yeah. It's just it's just a hand, it's not they're buying from separate pools. I think they just they buy the ETF, the ETF buy instantly buys from where we do same shit. And they charge a fee on top, just like iBit does. Yeah. Small fee. Um but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Do we know the actual volume? Does it say anything about the actual volume that occurred on the ETF?

SPEAKER_01 37:07

No, but I assume it's a lot if one percent of the supply was gobbled in 10 days. Like that is pretty and I can't like that they won't have any sellers, you know? No one will be selling through this ETF because it's just been issued.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

So you know, Haseeb Haseeb from Dragonfly made an interesting point on he was on the Milk Road podcast yesterday, and he was saying that like a lot of people are uh misconstruing this as thinking this is institutional buying. He was like, this is actually this is retail, like like this is not even the start of institutions. He was like, institutions will be last, like ETF buyers are primarily it's like 60 plus percent uh retail. Uh and so really this is just like yeah, like increased access for the retail demand, but like this is not even any mention of like you know what happens if if you legitimately start to get some institutional buyers, which I guess that for e for hype specifically that probably happens like post all this regulation clarity stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

It seems like they're going through it a little bit now. Like it feels like they started a bit of a war with CME.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

But the higher the higher hype goes, if it's driven by retail, like the more intriguing it becomes for then it's they don't they don't care about like they're more interested if the price is high. Yeah, they're more interested if they're seeing all-time highs getting smashed purely from retail. Like that's that's hard to ignore at a certain point, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Yeah, um yeah, me and XY getting getting blown out on our whole can't like oh what if it kycs? That's such a like I should have just bought and stop been fucking overthinking it. But I've been in and out of hype so many fucking times.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Well, yeah, that's a good transition. Maybe you still should. Let's uh let's get into the the official risk on token watch list.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Possibility AI season. So I the the way I think we should do this, basically, we we just took a list of like this is primarily not all, but obviously you're gonna see this is primarily um privacy and AI narrative tokens. We basically compiled the list of like mostly the general consensus, like AI and privacy coins that have are kind of in the spotlight. And then we added a few sleepers in that that really we think are worth talking about. They might might have had some mind share. Maybe they're slept on because they fit into this curve. I think we just go through it and each person can give their take. Like, are you risk on or risk off on these? Um and then actually I'll pop into the community chat. Like, go into the risk on community telegram. If you want us to talk about any other tokens right now, we're happy to bring some others up. Please, no micro caps. Uh-huh. Uh but um yeah, let's let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Would let's do it. All right, so we'll start with hype. I man, I so I I have the worst horror story with hype. I've probably shared it here before. I I was tweeting about it too. I I was looking back through my hype tweets to like find my hype bulletposts, and I found one in in February of 2025. I owned like I owned like uh Arthur Hayes levels of hype back at that time. Um his position j just got doxed, and I was like, I owned more hype than him. Um you fucking idiot. Would um and uh I tweeted out that in February, I tweeted out that uh I was gonna sell my hype because the downside risk versus the upside, I didn't see the upside being any that much uh dissimilar to Bitcoin. Um but the downside I saw as being much more substantial. That was so wrong.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah. It does make sense though. It does make sense. I gotta say, like it does make it made sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

So I sold all my hype at like a small profit in late February, early March. I mean, dude, I I guarantee you I'm not I'm I wasn't gonna hold hype for another year. So it wasn't gonna, but I I actually, if I had held for another three months, I would have caught the first move up to 60.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Do you guys remember when this drop down to fucking like like like that bottom?

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Like I sold so that so that candle where it went up, go up, Henry, a little more, right there. I sold that candle on the deck in March. In March 25. Yeah, and 25. I sold. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't sell that candle.

unknown 41:32

I'm not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

No, would we were we were way earlier, way further than the other? We were way earlier.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

I was yeah, I I bought this dip right here in March and January and all that. I was buying, buying, buying the whole way down. Um, and then I sold right before that big nuke that you're on right now, Henry. Yeah, um, I sold the candle up and I felt really good about it at the time. I was like, all right, like I I missed this.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Bro, this is when HLP got uh exploited. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

I sold before all that started happening. Um, and then I was like, ah, I think it's gonna go lower. I think we're gonna get $78 hype, and I'll buy it back, man.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah, when was that, Henry? What was that date? Yep. 25th of April. Fuck me, man.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yeah, the crazy thing is, like, you know, this is one of those things, like anyone who watches this show, anyone who is really even a little bit tuned in in what's going on. This was laid out on a silver platter for all of us. It's once every several years you get something that's just so obviously in the mind share, obviously a great product. Sometimes being too early is is a legitimately difficult problem, though. Like I think all three of us probably had very, I won't say the numbers, but like very sizable bags uh in the teen at the very least in the teens. Um obviously stats like the airdrop that he sold uh into infamous league. Four dollar hypeseller. But like, you know, like my issue was like getting scared in and out. I was in, I think I bought in at like 18 bucks, thought it was too high, thought I was chasing, ended up selling around the same, and then you know, rebought a large amount, got scared and sold it at $11, and then bought it back at 15 and then sold at 18 to get back to break it, like all these different things when in reality, what was our mindset? Like, yes, long term, this is probably the best asset in crypto, right? Uh, but we were almost too early where it was like it was consensus, but it wasn't consensus yet, you know? And those really are in in hindsight the best places to buy is when you see something as obvious that has not been 100% confirmed as obvious yet, but you just feel it. Um so the question with that is like what do you do now? It it's right up at our all time highs. Um I I think most people are pretty bullish on it short term, but Bitcoin is scary. Like, where do you guys sit at evaluating hype if you're if you're at a point of zero right now? Um would you be risk on or risk off hype?

SPEAKER_01 43:58

I'm not buying like. I wouldn't be buying here. If I held a significant bag of hype right now, I'd probably be offloading. Um and hoping like Bitcoin just drags it down with it and you get a better entry. That's kind of what I'm hoping for right now, which is massive cope. So probably buy it then. Yeah, but yeah, no, yeah, probably buy. I was about to say the same thing. Yeah, probably buy it because the chart looks fucking really good here, and Bitcoin's going down, and this is going up. Usually a great sign. But these are the trades I used to nail, man. Like when Bitcoin was fucking going down and and one asset was going up, I used to fucking be nailing it, and now I'm a I'm a sideline bozo.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

You'd nail it as an as you would you would pile in.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yeah, I would be piling in. Like I wouldn't be scared to literally just blast the top of things, like blast the absolute pico top of things. If if I saw Bitcoin down two, three percent one day, I see one asset at a screen. I used to be my bread and bar. I used to just be blasting that shit. And then Bitcoin reverses, they pull an eight percent candle, and I take profit. But yeah, now I'm a sideline bozo.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Would all right. So I think we're all in agreement, we're all buying hype. Yeah, at some level.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

I hold. I have held. Um, I I'm actually like I'm taking what Sats's initial advice was like I'm scaling out quietly right now. I I'm selling a little bit. Um, I'm not gonna sell the whole bag. A lot of it's gonna be a long-term spot position, but I do think to your guys' point, um it you're comfortable holding, but if you don't have a position, I I think more than likely you're gonna get a chance to get a better entry at some point.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

All right, we can skip Zach. We talked about Zach already. Yeah, we can go right to Nier. We have not talked about Nier yet. And I know Swizzle, you blasted near.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

I do want to talk about Nier. I I think we're you know, this is a each each tier we go down here, you're talking about more risk, right? So I just want to get that out of the way. Like, of course, there is significant downside risk here. You have to acknowledge that, you know, this thing has been moving a bit parabolic. And I I think it's important to note that, like, yeah, there there is real risk. You gotta you gotta know what your appetite for that is and that things could turn fast. Um I'm willing to take a big bet on Nier right now, and I am. Um, you know, I've I I wish my position was larger uh because I was in it back when it was at you know a dollar twenty and got scared out of it. But like I I I'm comfortable holding a big position. If I didn't hold any now, I would be adding on dips. Um for me, I think Nier uh is one of those plays we talked about, not to the level of hype, but like there's this growing consensus that's based on something that makes a lot of sense to me. To me, it feels actually obvious, but that creeping doubt in the back of your mind is like, well, but you know, you're gonna hear a lot of people say, but Nier's been around forever. Oh, I knew about Nier back in 2018. Who cares? It wasn't the same thing. They made a pivot a couple years ago. Um they're making revenue now, you know, they're they're actually doing revenue with uh the near intense uh payment system. It's probably the best answer you can give to anyone in terms of agentic uh like payment solutions that are cross-chain. There's there's just a lot of reasons. It fits into AI, it fits into privacy. Um they're implementing buybacks. What was that?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

There's a lot of upside in this chart, like all time high is what, like fucking 20?

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Yeah, like well, if you look at um uh yeah, if you look at near, it's it's still today. 80 85%, 86% off its all-time high.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah. Um that's a good psychological thing.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Yeah, it's been bloodied and battered, and to be honest, like it's like with this, some of the other tokens we're gonna talk about, it's maybe more technicals. The technicals are great in that in that standpoint from a risk-reward turn, but it's not the technicals you're making the trade for. It's the mind share, it's yeah, the the token buyback implementation, the revenue, like all the things people are looking for. I'm I'm very excited about Nier. I recognize there's a lot of downside risk, and I'm willing to stomach that risk because I think I think this is one of the ones that uh it looks like it's run a lot in the last week or so. I don't think it's really um run that hard to to be out of breathing room here. So um clearly I'm I'm risk on there. I'm I'm I'm intrigued, but I'm curious your guys' take, and especially the the counter to that is probably important.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Yeah, I uh I think I've said on the show before, I've been in and out of NIR for like the whole time I've been in crypto, it feels like. And yeah, I feel like they they have caught on here. I am sidelined though, but I do want to bag. However, I've had lines on this chart marked out from like fucking day dot, and this is like what's putting me off buying right now, like this 2.8 area is like a significant bit in the chart. What I've had marked out since 2021. So it's kind of scaring me off a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

What is marked out? What's marked about it?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Like, I I used to trade on ranges, um, specifically, like high time frame ranges, and I've yeah, I I marked this out back in 22nd of February 2021 as a significant level, this 2.876 area. So that's what's scaring me off a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

So you would want to see it definitively break that.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Yeah, definitively break that, and I'm in for 4.68. Like these are literally lines I've had out for so so long. So I like, yeah, I would I would like I would be I would be a buyer above this. I'd be a buyer at like maybe three.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Yeah, and that's just like our trading styles differ, obviously. Like my my style is more so I know, like I worry if that happens, it moves very fast, and I end up chasing and FOMOing and higher and getting a bad entry. Like, I I'm more the style, I think that works because you're really good at like finding those levels. For me, I try to front run. It's like I see the same level as you, I see 280 and 310. Yeah, and to me, I'm like, well, I'm gonna pile in before before it breaks through those. Because yes, it if you see invalidation, if it rejects that those levels four or five times, you're probably gonna just continue ranging um and you'll take a loss. But like for me, I'm I'm believing in the growing narrative, the growing mind share as a catalyst to to propel. And then once the mind share and the technicals come together, that's where you see these explosive moves. And then obviously you now see people starting to compare the side by side of the Zec weekly chart in this, and it's like, you know, there's there's a clear, like like kind of uh foreshadow there of what the potential of this move could be.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

Yeah, yeah. I'm a nierboal as well. Um, I would allocate there. Triple nibbles.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Will you? Will you or you might theory?

SPEAKER_02 51:00

I might. Who knows? Maybe yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

The only reason I would wait for this 2.8 area is like because then I have a I feel like I have a good place to close if it goes wrong, you know. Like we break above the 2.8, we break above three. I'm okay with being late because I know my downside is that I'm gonna cut if we if we drop below back below 2.8, and I'm I maybe lose what 15%. I'm okay with that. Hit here, like here I could be buying the fucking the top, and we could reject 2.8, and I'm fucking stuck at 1.7 like a dickhead uh with my backs uh running around. Yeah, very, very possible, very possible. So I'm okay with the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

I I think the next like level after that is a steep drop because I think the other like the the smaller range that it broke was like that 150 area. Yeah. It tapped 150 like three or four times, rejected, and then finally after it broke 150, that's when we saw it move up above two bucks.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Yeah, also we have to keep in mind that this all happened at the right time, right? We have other shit running right now, too. So you have to put this in context. Like Nier is not just like running on its own, it's got the Zec narrative kind of carrying it a little bit. Yes. So can this break free of that? Um, and independently, you know, gain mind share as maybe something better than Zec or whatever, you know? Um, so you gotta think of it that way too, I think. But I think as of now, you know, Zec hype near Senate the Holy Trinity, as our boy Arthur Hayes has said.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Um I message like one of my friends in 2023, like this is when bull market was raging. This was like probably November of 2023. He was asking me like what coins to buy, and I said uh I said near Bitcoin and soul, and he still holds this near back to today, and he he was break-even. He was break-even like this week, and he was like, Should I sell? And I was like, No, bro, the game's changed now, like stay in near, like you're in a good crazy round trip, right there. Yeah, he literally buys on Coinbase and does like just completely forgot about it. This was like 2023, he was up shitloads, um, didn't sell. Yeah, now he's uh breakeven beast, and I've got no coins. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Next up we got VVV. I think I'm actually a VVV bear. I did the unthinkable. Try the product.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Oh no, oh no, what a rookie mistake.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Never try the product. Yeah, never try the product.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

What was it? What is I don't even know what the product is. I'm so like fucking tapped out on the privacy, uh, privacy layer for AI.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

What does that mean? Sounds sexy. It sounds like it's like like it shields what you're searching for, and like using the colour.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Yeah, imagine uh the goal would be imagine like a private, uncensored chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

So so it's like an open source AI where like nothing's tracked. Okay, but the LM is a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

What you've heard a lot of people are using it for is say there's writers or um you know people who work in different industries and they want to put certain things that like will get blocked, like the the centralized L LLMs just won't do it. It's like, hey, I want to write something gory, you know, a horror novel, or I want to put something like that's like not really appropriate in there. Um you know, comedian a lot of comedians use it because it's like they can do this stuff that's like across the line, it's not gonna block them, it does whatever. Um you can't do that stuff on Claude or Chat GPT or whatever. Yeah, and it's private, so your data's not being leaked to the it's a cool concept.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Yeah, the moat, how big is it? I don't know. Um, especially when you're a computer.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

I mean, the upside is massive, and I think that's why people are are um it sounds like a thing for porn, be honest.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Like that's what it feels fucking built for. Yeah, probably will be.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I think there's a lot of use cases. I think in theory it sounds incredible. Uh I have not tried the product. Uh if we pull up the chart, like we were all feeling FOMO on this. I know Wood and I felt FOMO. Um we decided not to not to chase it.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Not to buy right around seven.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

It would have been nice. We had FOMO at seven bucks. We had FOMO at seven bucks. Yeah. Um, I think now it's it's the risk reward is tough. Right?

SPEAKER_01 55:20

It's tough to justify right here. Yeah, I mean, fuck. This is a hard chart to buy.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

It's a tough chart to buy.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

I can't buy that chart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

I I I I I am strictly a bear because I can't buy that chart.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

When when when you went in, when you went and used the product, what happened?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

What was the I it just like it wasn't giving me answers I liked, and I I I I in fairness, V guys out there, I used it for about three minutes.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

That's all you needed. This sucks. This sucks. That was all I needed.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

You could make an argument if it's like a you know a truly competitive model, like that could be vastly underpriced.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

That's that's but like anthropics worth 30.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Yeah. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, no, anthropics, yeah. Anthropics not worth it. Anthropic's over a trillion.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Sorry, a trillion. My bad, Jesus. Um, where am I getting 30 from? That would be crazy. Am I like one year ago valuations, maybe in my head? I think two.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

Uh yeah, like two years ago or so.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Yeah, Jesus. Um, or maybe that's what Trist what uh Tristan Thompson bought it as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

That's how much Tristan Thompson made on his anthropic. 30 trillion.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Yeah, the upside's big, I get the comparables.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Yeah, I think we can move on from this. I don't think any of us are chasing here. Probably another one where maybe if you bought early, you're comfortable holding narrative still attack.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

But is there another one we want to talk about? Another one or two we want to talk about from your list?

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Yeah, we'll go back to the list. Um I think um I mean you guys tell me.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

And we can also talk about more next episode, too.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Yeah, we'll continue this. I think uh I think grass and rail gun are a little bit interesting to talk about as sleepers. I know Sats I know Sats uh bought into Fett as well. I don't know how much of a thesis you have there.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Um no thesis, no thesis, uh apart from you were like, oh this might be a slept-on giant here, and I was like, I think so as well. I was like, I think so too. I was like, he's got AI in the name. Fuck it. I'll this show is so funny.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Swizzle has like long form thesis for things, and it comes to sats and swizzle uh to stats tonight, and he's like, oh, fat thesis? I don't got you trying to do that.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

My fat thesis you tried the product for like two minutes. I don't know. Here's the thing. I'll keep I'll keep it short. I'll keep it Sats level. Uh this was a retail darling back a couple years ago. Uh it's down nine, it's down over 90% from its all-time highs. Oh you pull up the chart, look at the daily, looks pretty good. It's uh it seems like it formed a pretty good bottom. Oh nobody is talking about it. I haven't seen a single person talk about this on the timeline. I looked it up. Is it a real product? Yep, sure is. Fetch AI. They do this, uh and I gotta remember now.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

They do something. They do something, and it's AI.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

It's enough AI.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Um, I just remember Ansom, Ansom, and Cron. Um, no, what's his name? Um Pickle, maybe? Yeah, yeah. Pickle, right? Yeah, he were huge grass balls.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

They were buying so much fucking grass, I remember. Bro, Swizzle's just crop cut his grass as well.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

I bought it back. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

Fuck it. This might be this is a scary entry, man. This is a scary entry.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

It is scary. It is scary, but uh okay. So fetch, yeah, fetch AI. It's a real AI product. Don't ask me too many questions. Chart looks good. Gonna leave it at that. Uh no one's talking about it. You never know.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

That was all I needed. That was all I needed, and I was in. Swizzle didn't even buy on his own thesis.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

I didn't. I was too scared on that. So grass. Um, you guys know what grass is, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 59:13

No. No. No. I know it was a token that goes up. Okay, so not for me again.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

This was like the original, like, you guys remember D pin? This was like the D Pin. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Basically, you install a plugin on your Chrome browser, you can do it on your phone. They just added you can do it on your phone now as well. And basically, you get paid for them being able to use your data to then package that data and sell it for training. So it's a total privacy invasion. Like you're you're offering up your data. Uh, shout out Cled, shout out Avi. Yeah, but the idea is for you're gonna use the internet at all the times, you might as well get paid for it, have the browser extension plugged in, and you can just like be earning these grasp points, and uh, and then they can go package that and obviously do these these resale deals where they sell the data. Um I don't know. Sounds good to me. Massive upside again. That could be an AI pick and shovel right there. That could be an AI pick and shovel. A lot of people clown it. A lot of people talk shit about it, say this is bullshit. The you know, the KOLs are shilling it again. You know what? Great news. A lot of times I see the clowning happen right before something pumps absolutely massively. Um and this is a guy who sold yesterday, by the way. But I bought back this morning. Yeah, yeah, it's down 87% off its all-time high. It just started moving alongside these other AI coins, so it's clearly the beta. I don't know, man. Guys, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

What part of the cycle are we in where we're just like buying five-year-old coins down 90% off all-time highs, hoping to catch a 2x and convincing ourselves it's all season?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

We're in the AI season. We're in the AI season.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

They're very specific tokens that they have to fit this narrative, right? Because this is all if we're right that Zek rips to new all-time highs.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

Maybe these coins are like the Nvidia of crypto, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Oh my goodness, that's a crazy. Like, yeah, let's do yeah, you know what? Let's do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

They were around for 15 years, they didn't truly find their product market fit, they weren't wrong, they were just early. So if you here's the comparison saw the vision and bought and bought and dealt with all that distribution, you get paid.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

Here's the thing think about it like this. When we were in our our 2023 bull run, meme coin started. What was that? Meme coins were a leverage bet on Solana, right? Yeah, it's as simple as it. They were a leverage bet in Solana, you got paid by taking the leverage bet. If you were right about your thesis, which the sole people were. So now the big thesis. It might be wrong, it might not pan out, but if the privacy and AI uh like movement becomes something that's solidified and Zek runs and Nier runs, then you're gonna get paid by having the leveraged bet on effectively. Yes, you could argue these are the meme coins of that, you know, um that this era, but you are going to get paid on these assets because the beta is going to run hard if you front run it, not if you chase it later. Um, and so you know, I'll I'll I'll probably lose money on this. I'll tell you guys, I'm probably gonna lose money on these.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

I think you're gonna win, man. I think you're gonna, I think like if Bitcoin reverses, pulls a few Greek candles, these fucking rip, and you catch like a 40-50% move. Uh but before we end, how the fuck is Monad slipped on this list?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

These were the ones, uh these bottom ones. I just wanted to get your guys' take. Uh Monad, we had to put up there for Bill Monday, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Uh big, big Bill Monday, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah, we're not Monad people. Ton, I just thought was interesting what happened, like it ripped like a 3x, and then no one talked about it ever again.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Yeah, I guess. And then people realized that absolutely nothing changed. It was still ton.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

Telegram aren't actually making it their whole fucking business.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

And Tron, the coin that has never gone down.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

The girl. Oh my god, please don't tell me it's still going up off our. It's still going up. Of course. Only this is ridiculous. This is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

This is absolutely chart. This or the SP 500. This looks like the SP 500 chart.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

This is so good. What is going on? What is he doing? Every time I've opened this, I've looked at this chart for probably two months. I've been speaking about this, going, oh, what's the drum chart? Taking the piss, I'm going, oh, like it's probably up only. Every time, bro, I said I was gonna long this yeah back when um it was on show, it was on live, it was 25th of March. Bro, it's just ripped, it's just up on I need to buy, I have to buy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Are you waiting on the rug candle? Is that what you check every day? Yeah, and that drops down 90%.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

I do see it. Like I have it top of my watch list, and I see it, and I'm like, oh, I feel like it hasn't really moved, but uh I don't as you open the chart, and then I open the chart and I'm like, holy shit, this what is this guy doing? I need to just buy. I literally just need to buy the fucking top here and like hopefully top it so I don't have to see it continually grind up anymore. This is outrageous. What is this guy doing? What is Justin's son doing? Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Who knows? Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

Um, whatever he's doing, I want to pile this.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Let's rapid fire for our because we got a couple of requests in the community chat. Um I'll just read them off. You guys let me know if uh you're talking about one. Avici BNB MetaDow cards. Avici.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

I'm a bull on every single one of those.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Are you actually?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Actually, yeah, I actually Avici is an interesting one. I think what Avici is doing is interesting. I think what MetaDAO is trying to build is actually like uh it's what we need more of in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

Yeah. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Whether they're successful or not, I I I don't know, but I I can get behind what they're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

Yeah, I think MetaDow's an interesting one, but it feels like a long shot. Cards is definitely an interesting one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Um a lot of heavy coordinated chilling going on there.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Yeah, and a lot of June unlocks, I've heard.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

But really? Um I've felt FOMO on that, but I think you gotta be a little bit careful. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

I mean, every time it pumps, it just gets sold off.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Like BNB. Oh, I haven't thought about buying out the BNB in a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

CC always figures it out. It's expensive. I don't think I would buy BNB here.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

But like that was one of them things like last cycle that just continually grinded up no one else in. Yeah, it's like Tron. Bro, I can't believe Tron's at all-time high. What the fuck is going on then? Oh, BNB looks BNB looks uh a little rough, but like, yeah, he always manages to pull it out of the bag. So actually, it doesn't look too bad compared to a lot of these coins, you know, it's in a good spot. I feel like 650 could be a buy. I might dabble. Bro, oh my god, man. Every time I open these charts, I see lines I have I I like drawn like cycles ago. Bro, I had a I had a line drawn at 38 and I was fucking around, probably trading it for 3% gains. Disaster. Just imagine.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

Could have just held everything held.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Could have just held bro. I'm one of them guys. If I just stopped trading and just held everything back then, like back in fucking this was in 2020. If I just held every all my bags there instead of trading, yeah, it would have been uh would have been crazy, but no, I was fucking around pub trading. So what can you do? Hell yeah, yeah, hell yeah. We'll Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

All right, uh, let's wrap it up here. Uh, we'll be back Friday back to normal schedule. Sorry, we've been a little all over the place the last week or so, just some scheduling shit, but we'll be back Friday, 12 o'clock Eastern. Uh, go download FOMO today or check out the web app, go trade ETH there, go uh check out the asteroid chart and laugh at Sats and Swizzle. Don't do that, guys. Uh we will be back on Friday. See you guys. See you guys.