Risk On Podcast

24 Hours Until IPO Day | EP 69

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0:00 | 1:02:17

Covering:

• SpaceX IPO 
• NVDA now worth more than India
• SoftBank borrowing $6B against its OpenAI stock to buy more OpenAI
• Solana sponsoring the WSOP

And more 

SPEAKER_02

Good afternoon, welcome to uh RiskGon episode 59. Brought to you by FOMO. Go check it out. Go uh check out the web app, perp soon, go trade ETH coins, trade all your coins there. Uh promo code RISCON for 10% off your trading fees. How's it going today, guys? Uh you guys good? Equities are shitting the bed. BTC's flat from where we last talked. Anything new?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. No, no, nothing's really changed on the crypto front. I did literally just see though, say put in uh in our in our channel that FOMO have just announced perps. Perps are now live. Powered by hyperlike trader at CoZ, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Like they're like they're going live currently, or or they're just uh perps are now live on FOMO.

SPEAKER_03

So they're trying to get in for the SpaceX IPO. Everyone's doing perps these days, huh? Yeah, per big perps, guys, everyone.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, speaking of which, I did um I I had a nice little you guys know Swizzle's been on his perps arc over the last uh couple months here to stay busy during the bear market. And I did puke the bottom of yesterday's wick. Uh got stopped out, or I didn't even stop out, just panicked, sold, closed, closed my longs. Uh and um now I'm comfy in spot for the foreseeable future. We're gonna we're gonna take a little break from uh from the leverage games at this juncture in time.

SPEAKER_03

Focus on the poker instead.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for for a few for a few days at least here. But Zec long didn't really plan out. They saw me close and then immediately shot back up to uh my entry price. So devastating. Classic, classic.

SPEAKER_02

I know we spent like a long time last episode talking about Zec, but in the last two days, have either of your opinions changed on Zec? No.

SPEAKER_01

I think the one thing that came out yesterday, which I found very funny. I don't know if you guys were like monitoring that I feel like there's this niche uh part, this algorithm that's tuned to me is like all these, there's there's this like chatter of you know how with the normal you know, Bitcoin price action, there's this group of people who want to flip from it so over to like everything's great, like to far extremes. Same thing happens in like the privacy Zcash community. And um Mert came out and posted something that Helios uh did yesterday where basically they're scaling privacy functions on Solana. I don't know if you guys saw this, um, where they're basically you know trying to do a bunch of stuff that allows like like seamless private transactions on Solana, and he made he made a you know, basically reposted whatever Helius did, and everyone just like panics and freaks out and starts saying, see, like Zcash is dead, like it's all gonna happen on Solana now, like Zcash is irrelevant, and um and price dumped. I don't know if it was super related to that, and then all of a sudden today price went back up a little bit and everyone stopped worrying about it. So um I do think this is really interesting. I I think it's really cool. It fits in with like the Solana thesis of like they just want to be the fast and efficient and do it, allow you to do everything like functionally, transactionally. Uh, but I don't really think it's like negative, like an attack on Zcash in any way. Um this was this is really the only thing that happened. I wouldn't say it should change anything that's been going on over the past couple weeks.

SPEAKER_02

I completely disagree. I think if Solana's able to tackle the privacy problem completely, it it renders Zek useless and trends to zero over time.

SPEAKER_03

Trends to zero.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I don't even know where to begin.

SPEAKER_02

If you can go on the Solana blockchain and do everything that you need to like be doing over on a different blockchain with a different wallet and just do it on Solana where everyone else is transacting all the time, why wouldn't I just do it on Solana? Why am I?

SPEAKER_03

Well, we could say that about every chain in existence then anymore.

SPEAKER_01

I can, but I I don't even know how many times we've had this conversation. Uh, but it's good because like it's it's good to have Wood here on the show saying this stuff because this is the classic like response that people give that like, oh, well, if you can do some form of private transaction somewhere else, it renders the other stuff obsolete. There's a big difference between like functional, practical consumer privacy and then like like real privacy, like store of store value privacy, institutional grade. Like Sats is like the perfect example of someone who used he was like an early adopter to privacy cache. He was like, this is great, everything's private. And then you realize, like, oh, these like these bolt-on privacy features that are like within these network layers, not to get overly granular, but like it's not, it's like functional privacy for certain use cases, but it's not it's not the same thing. It's not really even trying to be the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

You think Solana Foundation, and their billions upon billions of dollars in a war chest, is capable of developing institutional grade privacy at scale?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't think so. I don't think so because the problem is the network, how it was created on a foundational level was designed for transparency. Same way Bitcoin was. And so that's this is not a problem that money can fix, really. It's a very, you know, maybe there's like a solution we don't see now, but like it's very difficult to imagine that you can bolt on these privacy features and do something that is like at a foundational level meant to enhance, like like be robust and and fully private, because ultimately they're adding these privacy features on top of something that is fundamentally not private. Whereas like something like Zcash or Monero was built privacy first, and now they're trying, it's much harder. They're never they're not gonna be able to do things at the speed and efficacy that Solana does. It's not realistic to assume they can do that. But their privacy is like the foundational bedrock of of what they're doing. I don't know, Sats. Is that a fair explanation? That's to me, it's pretty obvious. Uh definitely different.

SPEAKER_03

All the attempts of privacy on Solana are like privacy to a level, unless someone actually digs and knows knows what they're doing. You can you can find the transaction. Unless it's looping back through exchanges, but then that's not really private either, because you're looping back through an exchange. And you know, I've had problems with Houdini swap where an ex use Houdini swap and it fucking locks your transaction. Like that actually happens. So no, I don't think it's possible like full transparency like it is on or full uh privacy like it is on Zcash and Monero. Simply not possible on Solana. But I'd be happy for someone like Mur to tell me why I'm fucking retarded.

SPEAKER_01

And it doesn't mean that this stuff that they're doing on Helios and Solana is not valuable and important. I think it is, I think it's awesome. Uh, but even like you listen to Zuko talk on some of these podcasts or whatever, and like he'll say, Zuko, the founder of Electric Coin Company, uh like one of the Zcash co-founders, like he will even say, like, even with Zcash, you have to understand what you're doing for it to be private there. Like, it has to sit because with AI pattern recognition and all this, you know, we we've talked about this on the show before, but um, it's yeah, it's it's not a simple formula. I think there's a place for both. And I actually think they enhance each other.

SPEAKER_03

Um I think what light is flowed by Helios. I haven't looked into what they're actually doing. All I know is it is like it's a ZK app on Solana, that's it. I don't know if they're using pools, like privacy cash and every other. I assume they are because it's the only way to do it. Maybe the pools are a bit more enhanced, maybe there's more pools, like you know, it could be anything.

SPEAKER_02

I need to look into it more, but we gotta get our boy Veboo back on. I feel like Veboo has been in some drama lately. Um, all the shit that he went through against hype, which was dumb and stupid, but it brought attention for a little bit. Um two, Solana just started sponsoring the World Series of Poker, which I think is cool. Um they've done that before, which is funny because Swizzle is playing the World Series of Poker. Um which is also cool. So I'm curious, like, Swizzle, you you saw this immediately and you DM'd us and were like this is the perfect fit. Uh why is it a perfect fit? And how have you been how has crypto been impacting the World Series of Poker this year?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love it, man. I I think it's like um I think it's a perfect fit and it's like so obvious. I think it's been something that you would have assumed would have been coming for years. There's so much crop, there's a lot of crossover already in like the poker and crypto worlds. There's a lot, people operate in very similar ways. Um you know, there there's clearly the the risk appetite and the like, you know, it's just they've gravitated towards different things in terms of like, you know, expected value, probabilistic thinking, risk appetite. Like the cultures are are similar and yet focused on different things. But um, I think one of the cool things like that Solana's doing here is they tapped into like, okay, specifically there's things they they can do to help because like the poker game, the the world of poker is actually exploding. It's very international, and there's a ton of issues that people have with like there's people trying to stake each other, you're trying to buy in and out. It's somehow in 2026 still had been this very archaic, like primarily cash-based system for buy-ins and uh payouts and all this stuff, or you're working through bank wires, people get cut off trying to get their funds, or it takes 10 days and they want to do their next tournament, but they haven't gotten wired their money yet. So Solana and crypto seems like a like just an obvious solution for all that, where you can make all this more seamless. For Solana, it makes sense you're gonna educate this user base of people who have very similar um kind of like user behaviors in a different industry. And I think what they can do is like by improving the experience for people who are playing poker there and doing you know, buy-ins and payouts and all this stuff, they can also like onboard, maybe it's not a massive group, but like poker is a game that's growing globally. You've got hundreds of thousands of players coming into Vegas and uh the Bahamas and Europe all over the world for these big events that are happening. Um and I think these are the types of people who could be power users and like really like fit the model for like on-chain trading. So even if you you don't onboard five million people, if you if you onboard 10,000 of these poker players to be to understand what's going on and see the upside to trading on-chain and doing these things, that could be like the next wave of like really successful traders. I think there's already a lot of crossover, but um, I think it just makes sense that you're gonna see people who haven't had exposure to the other side, where it's like, you know, you can start seeing more cool development happening on the crypto side with on like I think the online poker experience can improve with Solana and with on-chain settlement. And then I think the crypto experience uh can can get enhanced by bringing on a bunch of new users who are really like a perfect fit for this. So um, yeah, I I love it, man. I saw a bunch of people kind of attacking it and saying, why is Solana doing this? Just some random brand ambassador thing. I think they're missing the bigger point. I think this is like just one of many things that Solana is doing to um integrate themselves into like, you know, financial rails, internet rails, cultural rails. Uh and and to me it seems like a no-brainer fit. And um, I mean, if you guys saw, like I'm out here at the World Series of Poker right now in Vegas, and it's it's crazy. Like, this is a really fast-growing sport. Sport, game, whatever you want to call it. Um I think there's and and there couldn't be a game or sport that is a better fit to compare to uh the on-chain trading world. So yeah, I think it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I just saw I literally just clicked on like Vivi's Twitter, went on the stream, and it's like they've got Solana on all the tables, it's looping around the sides. Like, this is no half-ass sponsorship. This is a complete takeover.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I was there yesterday. The branding is still like they're trying to get it all up, like not all the tables have it yet, but they're literally going around, they're starting to stamp the tables, the felt with the logo. They got the Solana all over. It's like you can't miss it. And the last thing I'll say is this is the first year I've I've gone to these events, and I'm actually now able to pay with Solana. For me, that's like an experience. I already know how to use. Man, it's crazy. I'm using my magic internet money. I bust out of a tournament yesterday. I probably wouldn't have thought about reaching back into the bag and grabbing some hard cash. It was it was a no-brainer. I said, Oh, another another $500 buy-in. I'll just uh I'll just trim one of these, you know, shit coin positions. I'm in, and there you go. I'm back in the tournament. Um the internet money is is uh a game changer for for the uh the tournament buy-ins and registrations. And it was so easy, man. You literally they've integrated it to the app. So like you're on the World Series of Poker app. If you're trying to register for a tournament, you literally just click on the registration button. There's options for payment, and you can click Solana links through Moon Pay to your Phantom Wallet or Jupiter wallet, whatever you want. And uh two clicks, and I'm registered, and then straight to the app, it told me which table to go to. Um it was sick, it saves people so much time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That's like next year, we would have to come with you. Yeah, use money really fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I was so into poker back when it first got big uh uh when I was in high school. Um I don't know if that's when you started getting into it, so I don't know if you were later or not. Uh but I haven't really played in forever. Uh but this is cool. I don't think a situation I might actually if I can use my cre if if I can use the money I have on the blockchain that I'm willing to gamble on shit coins, I might as well go play poker with it.

SPEAKER_03

You know what's funny? Uh a lot of the best traders I know are all poker players. Every single one of them. Like some of the top traders I know, and there has to be some correlation. I would say one of the best traders I I've known, I don't know if you guys are familiar with him, is high-stakes capital. He was around big last cycle, legend. Yeah, legend, legend of the cycle, massive poker player. Won he's won the World Series of Poker a few times. Like, this guy is a fucking beast. Um, honestly, one of the one of the best crazy traders um I know. I don't know if a lot of people know him, maybe listening. He just turned up this cycle, but this guy, I think he's got his Twitter on private now. But this guy used to hold some absolute monster positions in the red.

SPEAKER_02

Um he would hold like market-changing positions, yeah. Quite literally, insane positions.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, in the red, and he he would he would somehow come out on top, like he would be millions, multi, multi-millions in the red, and uh, and come out on top. Guys got balls of steel. I remember once he was down an obscene amount of money on perps, and I I was following his Twitter, I had notifications on, and he was like, Oh, I'm in my room like at the World Series of Poker, I'm blasting 50 cent, I'm down literally multi-millions, and neighbors are complaining, and then the day after he was up just an like astronomical amount on it. Yeah, this guy is uh like no other man.

SPEAKER_01

You know why I think uh not all poker players are great traders, and not all traders are gonna be good poker players, but why I think some of these poker players are really good traders is like when you're in a poker tournament, you're basically it's like this simulation that is like almost like perfect training for high-leverage trading because you go through all of these like situations to survive over the course of an event, and you have to like, you know, you're doing the math and probabilistic thinking of like where you're at and assessing the situation, everything, but it requires patience. You can't like speed it up. And so you have the same same as trading, you have these crazy drawdowns, you'll have unlucky moments, you'll make mistakes that are almost critical. But it's like, it's kind of like crypto where it's like you just have to survive, you have to be a cockroach, and then you have to recognize these little moments in time where you can capitalize. And it's so similar in that way, but like, you know, you now people are on their phones and stuff, you kind of have to be off your phone, you have to really like like you have to be patient and disciplined, but you also have to make like multiple high-leverage, high-stakes decisions like every hour. You have to make really important decisions that could that could kill you in a tournament. And so, like, usually when I go and play these poker events, I I'm not, you know, great. I, I um, I've I would say like for me, the biggest advantage is I come back and it's like it makes my trading better after I've gone on these little poker bender uh sessions where I've played for days or weeks. I'm not even kidding, because it's like it reminds you like some of the like the combination of like discipline and decision making mixed with the risk tolerance. Um that it's just like the perfect like uh like simulation battlefield for trading, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03

The perfect storm. Yeah, we have to come. Me and Wood have to come next year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we have to come.

SPEAKER_03

We'll get you guys on the third. Uh vaporize some money, man.

SPEAKER_02

Vaporize some money. Thinking of vaporizing money, uh big day tomorrow for vaporizing money. What a big day. Big, big day. We got SpaceX IPO SpaceX IPO, which is set to bring in 70 billion dollars of retail cash.

SPEAKER_01

And Wood's not worried at all about this, right?

SPEAKER_02

You're not worried at all. Not worried in the slightest, guys. Um I, you know, I actually bought a lot of stocks the last few days. Um what motivated that?

SPEAKER_01

Because you've been probably like you've been uh as much of a doomer as I've seen about this.

SPEAKER_02

I've been a doomer on crypto, but I think that AI is going to materially change the economy. Um and I think um that it's going to improve our production and all of that to a place that like we haven't really pressed it yet to some degree. Um I also think that like you said this last episode, Swizzle, like inflation is so fucking bad that I think you just need to hold assets right now. Holding cash, I think you're gonna get more in the next one or two years. Um so I think you're better, I I feel bit better holding broad market exposure than I do sitting in cash right now. I think my purchasing power is gonna get just eroded if I hold cash for the next two years. Um that's where I'm at, so that's why I bought more. But um SpaceX at 70 billion retail money, advertising to people with nothing in SoFi and so on, is a little daunting, I think. Uh Swizzle, you decided to participate in the IPO, right?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I did. I got offered uh through my bank to go in at IP, you know, for the IPO. Um my general strategy is basically if it, you know, there's no lockup on this, so it's if it goes up, sell the momentum in the first, I don't know, hours or days. Uh great. Then wash your hands of it, reassess. If it goes down, forget it exists and hold it for 10 years. That's my plan.

SPEAKER_02

That's classics with it.

SPEAKER_01

Win-win. Win-win.

SPEAKER_02

Win win win win win. Um we pull up this chart though. I think you have it ready to go. This is you know, we've talked about this last episode. Like, if you look at this, like how they've gotten to this valuation and how parabolic it's gotten. I I struggle to buy this. Like, I do think you're right, Swizzle, and that like you buy it and you play the momentum and you can sell for a 20-30% gain. But like, you're gonna you're gonna be able to buy this cheaper, right?

SPEAKER_01

Oh well, 100%. 100%. So, yeah, to to clarify, I I think this is overvalued. I don't think this is the right, like, you know, this is not nothing about this is is fundamentals based. This is not like a fundamentals trade. I think we're just seeing like this is like retail mania coming in. They changed all the rules, 30% of the IPO is available to um to retail. Robin Hood has access. Like it, it's just wild what's happening. Like, we were just going through the the revenue multiples uh on off stream before the show. And like, would you brought up uh we'll get to to the you know, Walmart's a tough comparable, but like that was crazy. You look at NVIDIA trades like 18 to 20x uh revenue. Um SpaceX, it's hard to figure out exactly what their revenue is, but like 19 billion, it's has if if you say that's the Revenue uh that they're doing, then like they're trading 94x uh multiple revenue, which is which is like five times what the multiple that NVIDIA trades.

SPEAKER_02

Walmart Walmart 700 bill and revenue, one trillion valuation.

SPEAKER_01

I know it's not comparable, but like Yeah, like I but I would say you can go just go look at the crazy tech, you know, the tech stocks, the Mag 7, and it's like it's not even in line with those by any measure. Yeah. Um that said, like we all know what happens with these IPOs when there's this kind of like frenzy, market frenzy going on. Um just be prepared for the other shoe to drop at some point. There's gonna be a ton of relentless sell pressure, a ton of people up massively who are gonna have their bags unlock. Uh so we know what's gonna happen. Um be careful if you want to play this. Have fun, but have a plan. Be prepared for all the outcomes. Because uh it could get crazy in a very fun way, and then it could get crazy in a very not fun way as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm gonna have so much fun watching this trade. And it's gonna be fun to watch a trade on FOMO, on Trade XYZ, on hyperliquids be trading all on chain too. Which will also be cool.

SPEAKER_01

Now, what's what's the liquidity gonna be like on that? Like, what's our expectations for like is is hype a good proxy to like you know, is that an equivalent to because right now I know it's been trading this like pre-IPO has been trading and it's like not the most liquid thing, but people have been all over that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I I actually have no idea. I have no idea how liquid that is, and is that a worthwhile thing to be doing, trading the SpaceX fucking IPO on hyperliquid?

SPEAKER_02

Maybe I think I think once it goes live, I think once trading goes live, um, it will be worthwhile to trade it, but I think today maybe not so. But like over the weekend, yeah, it'll be a good place to trade.

SPEAKER_01

I'm also interested to see like how dislocated price gets there in those in those venues. Because like it's not like you can arbitrage trade these, it's like, oh, hype is trading at at a premium, I can go you know bounce over to Robinhood. Like, it's not gonna work like that, right? So um I I am curious to see like the weekend, the fact that it's opening on a Friday, the weekend activity is gonna be fascinating to watch.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be wild.

SPEAKER_01

Fascinating.

SPEAKER_03

I think it could be just illiquid and it could fucking fly up. It could just fucking start flying up, but don't want to make predictions here. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. Yeah, I've just decided it's gonna be fun. So just now. Yeah, yeah. I've just opened up hyper liquid and uh saw my balance. Are you long or short? Are you long or short? Uh I'm gonna be long. I'm gonna be long.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna vicariously live through you, Set.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, there you go. Yeah, I opened up hyperliquid. My my balance was looking more than I actually thought, so we're going in. We're going in. We're gonna lose for now.

SPEAKER_00

It's more than for now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's actually up significantly from where I thought I was. I don't know what trade hit like anything, but he just did the equivalent.

SPEAKER_01

Sash just did the equivalent of like you're you're cleaning up wallets, and you're you know, remember back in the days, you're cleaning up your meme coin wallets. Oh shit, there's a lot of money in this wallet, I didn't even remember this.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it was on one of my side wallets, like you know what I put you create, it was like outside of my master wallet, and I was like, oh fuck, I've actually got uh mid five figures in here. I get this is this is this is going on the SpaceX launch, guys.

SPEAKER_01

Well, do you ever I know I know Wood's done this? You ever find money you didn't know existed, and then instead of just like taking that money to your bank, you you just full port it into whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Well, somebody in the Riskon uh community chat just sent me a transaction of mine where I sent I sent $2,000 to myself and I can't find the fucking wallet.

SPEAKER_03

That's good.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01

You should give them a tip since they basically just paid you $2,000.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I can't find the wallet though. It's just stuck in a wallet that I don't even know how to find.

SPEAKER_00

It could be anywhere. It was uh anywhere. It was Vlad, our guy Vlad. Yeah. So thanks, Vlad. Shout out Vlad, he just found wood 2,000 bucks.

SPEAKER_02

That I can't find. So he found me. I I would send him a tip if I could find it. I spent probably three minutes trying to find it, so maybe I'll try to spend some more time finding it. But um anyways. Um what else? Uh I want to so I read, you know, we've kind of been chopping, and I'm kind of of the opinion crypto chops for the next for the rest of the summer. Um, but I read a couple of good kind of opposing takes for crypto. One is the bull side, uh, by our boy Crypto Pickle Ricker, I think his name. Pickle Crypto, who I really like. Um, that I want to go through and talk about. Um He's a bull, he's a perpetual bull, kind of like Youth Swizzle. Uh basically he's saying basically that this time is not different than any other cycle. People are funning saying crypto's dead, Bitcoin has lost a plot. We do this every single cycle. Um the only difference this time has been that stocks have been ripping in the background. But the four-year cycle is kind of still in attack, right? Um Bitcoin will be back, new tokens, new on-chain trading will be back, and we're all gonna bounce back, and the shitty KOLs will all wash out and die. Do you guys believe this, or do you really think that we're done for? I and this time it's different.

SPEAKER_03

I I I believe this on a on a long enough time horizon. Things go up and to the right, so it's stupid to disagree, kind of. But the fact that I don't think new to it's not gonna be like last cycle or the cycle before. That's not happening again, where you get a you come on, you literally lock on on a on a Wednesday and you you just can't lose. You just can't lose. It's not gonna be like again. But that was nothing better than that. You literally wake up Monday morning, wake up at midday, get on, can't lose. You could buy any dog shit under the sun and win. Um, don't think it's gonna be like that. It's not gonna be as easy. But I do agree, Bitcoin up into the right. Um there will be a new batch of tokens. How big that batch is, I think, is smaller. That's it.

SPEAKER_02

Man, Sats, you saying that, I just like uh winning on a random Wednesday, I would just like win on a random Wednesday and go for a walk with my dog and Blair Techno and just like fist pump in the air. Yeah. Fucking what up.

SPEAKER_03

You just made 50k on a fish copter.

SPEAKER_01

Fantastic. Man, I we used to walk around with the dogs and just look around and be like, these people have no idea, man. Yeah, yeah. They have no idea.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I remember I I went downstairs and I I was like, oh my, like, this was this was around shark cat time, and uh I was with I was at I was at my mom's at the time. I went downstairs, I was like, Mom, you're never gonna believe what's just happened. And uh I showed her what she was like, is that real? And I was like, Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's real. Don't ask any more questions. I'm going back to my room, I'm locking in. Um and that was like a common thing. That was like a common thing. I would I would come downstairs, massive smile on my face, not saying a word, and my dad would be like, What's going on? And I'll be like, Don't worry, don't worry about it. Just know, just know it's a good fucking day. And that was every that was a random Wednesday. Every time amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Seth, your come-up has been from living with your mom and dad to shark cat to now like being a Dubai dweller in the last three years.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's been a wild one. It's been a wild one.

SPEAKER_02

Seth, have we ever told the shark cat story on stream before?

SPEAKER_03

I think so. I think so, maybe ages ago. It was uh I don't think we have really don't think we have.

SPEAKER_00

Should I tell it? It's a hell of a tale. Let's give them the shark cat story, man. Let's let's hear it.

SPEAKER_02

This is because this is also like the impetus of our relationship sets.

SPEAKER_01

Is that true? Is that how you guys met?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so basically, I started on bass originally. I started buying bald, and like I made I made a s I started the cycle with like $300. I made a significant amount of money, or round-tripped a significant amount of money on this coin called Bald. This was like 2022, like mid-2023, maybe. I can't really remember. Whenever Base came out, I don't really remember when that was. And then uh I got going on Solana. This was uh pre-wiff, pre-all that shit. Um, and we were just buying things. I remember buying a ball, it was a bull called Ricardo, and he was running along railways, and it went to seven mil. And I was like, oh my god, this is just amazing. This can't get any better. And seven mil back then was like that was a nothing burger, you know. No, no one was even tweeting about it. It just went to seven mil all of a sudden. Um, I made uh I bought Popcat on Christmas Day on in 2023. Don't don't ask why. On Christmas Day, I was buying this fucking cat coin on the Solana blockchain that ripped up. Um, and all my friends, some of them you know, like Seb and a guy called Jordan, and some of these guys have never touched crypto in their lives, and I was telling them like I'm up a significant amount on this absolute dog shit. And I started with $500, and I was showing them, and they they all started getting on. And uh yeah, I was in the fucking shower, funnily enough, and uh this guy called Tiger Tiger messaged me Shark Cat on Twitter. Um, he was a legend back in the day. He used to just uh me and art school used to used to like him. He used to shill this coin called uh ACAT all the time, which me and art school were in.

SPEAKER_02

And uh I don't know if you Which you screwed me on, by the way. I didn't even know it at the time that I was your ex at liquidity on ACAT.

SPEAKER_03

I did. I think I screwed art school as well, indirectly, indirectly. Yeah, she got caught in the crossfire on that one. She got caught in the crossfire. Um, but yeah, he he he texted me the CA while I was in the shower, um, and it was at 30k, and I was like, What the fuck is this? I put $400 into it, $500. This at the time it was like sub, I think it was at 15k or something, 10k market cap. Uh, I sent it to my friends, and honestly, it was one of the first crypto coins these guys ever bought. Um, one of my friends didn't even know how to use a chart at the time. He was on the chart scrolling around, like, what the fuck is going on? How do I use this? They were all on bird eye as well. They were all because I got them to buy on bird eye. Shout out, bird eye. Yeah, within within four days. Uh well, I I missed out the part where I ended up creating the socials as well. I ended up running the Shark Cat socials. Uh I ended up getting caught in a little bit of a lawsuit over the IP of Shark Cat, which was a big nothing burger at the time. But yeah, it ran to 80 mil first or first two days or something. Um, I had an obscene amount of Shark Cat, obviously. I wasn't selling, obviously, because I'm a moron. Um, and then yeah, the the the cat coin guys reached out to me, like the guys who ran the the Nala Cat, it was called the their Instagram reached out and they were like, we had a call. They demanded uh 20 million dollars on the call. Um to me, yeah. Keep in mind, yeah, keep in mind, I was a straight face. Yeah, they joined this call with like three or four lawyers, and them two, like that they run this Instagram that has like two male followers. I joined like really happy, like, oh my god, we're gonna get sick partnership, and this is gonna rip to a bill.

SPEAKER_04

This is gonna be so easy.

SPEAKER_03

I joined the call, straight face, big smiles. I'm like, hey guys, this is amazing. Full name, everything. I'm going, oh, this is amazing. This big crypto stuff, great. And he goes, uh, look, you've stolen our IP, you've created this coin. I remember saying on the cool, I didn't create the coin. And yeah, he goes, You're gonna have to pay us 20 million dollars in value of the token. I was like, who the fuck do you think I am? I think I said this on the coin uh on the on the call. I was like, Who the fuck do you think I am? Jeff Bezos. I was like, Jesus Christ, folks, I do not have 20 million. I'm I was like, literally, I'm just the kid who who bought this shit coin on on Solana. Like, I don't have this money to give you. And uh yeah, they sent me a cease and desist to take down the coin, and I just privated up my Twitter and was like, guys, fuck you. Like, I'm not giving you shit. I'm not giving you guys shit. Fuck you guys. What was their claim?

SPEAKER_01

That they're just like, this is our cat.

SPEAKER_03

They were like, This is our nala cat. They were like, this is our Nala cat. We've done all this work, and you came in and profited more than we've ever made. Um, and I was like, Fuck yeah, I did. Uh see you guys later. See you guys. I'll see you guys, see you guys in a bit. Um, and yeah, well, that went on for a whole thing, and then yeah, I ended up selling a little bit. I sold a lot. That was before that call. I sold a lot, I sold a lot, a lot. Before that call, I sold a lot, and then after that call, I was like, whoa, I'm I'm up an astronomical amount of these guys and arseholes, bro. And I was like, I'm out, bro. I'm getting out. Um, so yeah, the whole thing transpired. It ended up, the whole situation ended up. I sold, left the project, disappeared, driving up my Twitter. I had these guys, I had these guys under my Twitter comments, um, commenting me my full name, uh, where I used to work, what school I used to go to. It was the SharkCat guys, the SharkCat lawyer. These guys were rogue as fuck, and they were trying to intimidate me. And I was I remember just going, like, guys, I got astronomically rich off your fucking cat. Now go away. Um, and that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_01

Wait, so at the end of the day, all of these threats and things they're making, it's like you're literally just a dude who bought a coin in in the shower, and then you sold it after the price went up, and that's all that happened.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. And they were like, We're coming to the UK to sue you. And I was like, bro, go ahead, bro, go ahead. This is I'm so good right now. I think I was already in the Maldives at that time. Uh, I did not give a fuck. Um, but that was my big hit of the cycle. Uh, that was the one that started everything off, like where it took me from nothing to literally everything. But yeah, it did come with the whole lawsuit shit. Uh, and it was just a crazy experience. I was still in my parents' house at that time as well, and my dad was following, like, he's tapped into the whole crypto shit, and he was following along, and he heard the call of when they like I playing it out loud, and he heard the call where they asked me for 20 million dollars. I hear him giggling in the background, going and I was like, Dad, fuck, don't can't laugh at these guys yet. Um, but yeah, absolutely crazy time, man. Crazy time. Uh, I would love for that to come back, but that was true, true mania.

SPEAKER_01

I've never heard that story. I've never heard that story. It is a good reminder, man. I I also think about these things where it's like people in in crypto, the sense of entitlement for things they don't have any ownership of is crazy, though. Like, there's always these like threats of lawsuits flying around. It's like nobody has any grounds for any of this on either side. Like, we're all just messing around on the internet here, you know.

SPEAKER_03

I I I ended up giving them a hundred K as well or something. I ended up giving it away. Just because you were scared. Yeah, because I was a little, I didn't really know at the time. I was a bit naive, and I obviously I just made millions of dollars, and like it didn't really matter at all at that time. And uh them them guys all grouped up, like I think we gave them ended up giving them like a million dollars and they just fucked off in the end. Um, but I didn't really care at that point.

SPEAKER_02

I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, it's the uh the internet age version or the um the crypto version of uh the social network. Guess who will pay off?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we just paid them off to just go away because they were literally they had uh there was a guy, I don't know what you might remember him, a guy called Jin. Uh they had me and Jin's full name, full name and addresses, and Jin lived in California and it it was getting a bit sketchy for him.

SPEAKER_02

Mistakenly, didn't you mean to join from like a non-doxed email account?

SPEAKER_03

I joined from my fucking work email, bro. Yeah, I joined from my work you know where that's the company I used to work for as well. No way, no. I was getting I was getting about the people going, what is going on? I I got on a call with Josh and I was like, Josh, the craziest shit has happened, but you don't have to worry, it's all under control.

SPEAKER_01

Uh what does he say? What is your your uh your boss say?

SPEAKER_03

He's he's just like he was laughing you should have given it to me, you should have given it to me. He was like, bro, how did how did you not tap me and Murph into this? And I was like, bro, I don't know, the shit just took off. Um, but yeah, he was like, he was like, we gotta write a post on this, and I was like, not yet, not yet. They're gonna link it all together. Yeah, it was absolutely crazy, man. Crazy. Yeah, that's what I think. They ended up thinking, they ended up thinking like the place I used to work, uh, where I won't disclose it here, but they used to think that we cooperated, like we all cooperated with our with our socials and shit to push that narrative, and we were like, guys, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. I just bought the shit in the shower and uh and had a good time, you know. But yeah, crazy, absolutely insane story.

SPEAKER_02

I can't believe you got stuck with all this shit, like being on the team and all that, and then you you were loco DM'd it to me at like 30 or 40k, and I just bought 2% of it and didn't have to deal with anything.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I wish I I remember thinking, I remember thinking as that was all going on, I was like, oh my god, I wish I wish I just didn't get involved in any shit. But then I ended up starting the socials, I owned the telegram. All my in real life friends were helping me as well. Like I tied that all of them onto this. They were we were all running the socials, the telegram, all this shit together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So what you're saying is you were the shark cat guy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I was the shark cat guy. Um, and yeah, some of my in-real life friends literally, it was the first coin they ever bought. They turned up with a hundred dollars, and within six days, they had multi-six figures. Dude, first coin they ever bought.

SPEAKER_02

That was the craziest shit ever, man. Ever. That was such a crazy, crazy week of life.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and then after that, after that, it was every coin was booming. Like, I remember I flipped the money I made into that, into another trade. Um, and it was just it, that was when it felt like you couldn't lose, you know. Uh like literally couldn't lose. I had to chill out for a bit. I literally, I think I took like two weeks off after I hit this other trade after. Um, because I was like, this is just getting mad. At that time, at that time, I was like, this has to be the top because I'm up that much. I was like, this has to be the top of the cycle. How wrong was that? It was literally the start. It was literally the start. I remember I was DMing art school at the time, and she was telling me this is the beginning. Like, don't bail out now. And I was like, Oh, but I'm just gonna chill out. She was like, No, no, no, this is the beginning. And I yeah, I took it.

SPEAKER_01

Those days it was like you were scared to like these days you might be scared to go to bed if you're holding something for the other reason, but like you were scared to go to bed or sleep for more than a few hours because you were nervous you might miss a hundred X. Like the like the next thing, and it was real, it was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03

You know, it was a 200 mil.

SPEAKER_01

I remember like like the Billy thing when like I'm in a chat and and base 16 sends a message at like one in the morning. I was about to fall asleep, and he sends a message like, just bought 2% of Billy, let's see. And I'm like, What the fuck is that? What does that mean? And I look it up as just a dog, and I remember looking over my looking at it, hovering over, almost buying 2% at like you know, 400k market cap, 300k market cap or something, and I was like, ah, I sh I just go to bed, I'll look at it in the morning, wake up, it's at 25 million. Like that, that's the type of stuff that was happening, but like regularly. Like that happened like every week, by weekly, like shit was just every day.

SPEAKER_02

Guys, yeah, I didn't sleep for like a year straight.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, neither.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't sleep, I just stared at Telegram all day, every day. I was like an absent person in life.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I was just in ETV every day, all day, talking about shit. Even when the market was dead, I was there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Just talking about at that time I was I was working another I was working another profession, and I was working probably 16 hour days, but doing all this on the side, and and right around the time Sats was doing this, would I I'm not gonna get into the story, we can do this another time, but that was right around the time I started this Friends Fund. My uh and that was like the start of all the craziness as well. Like, I think that's a conversation for another time, but like that was crazy. Like that's a hell of a story as well. Oh, yeah, we'll get into that, we'll get into that another time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, there has been some generational stories between that last year or just what happened, man. It was I don't think people the I know we say it all the time. We literally say this all the time. I don't think people understand what it was like back then. Like, it was a whole different game. I remember literally watching Hobbs and some's cat run to 160 mil in a day.

SPEAKER_01

Um just being honestly, can we can we go back to the pickle tweet? This is like a full circle thing. I want to go back to it because I actually want it, I want to give a little bit of hopium. I want to give it uh an optimistic outlook on something. So what pickle's basically saying is like everyone relax. We're in a bear market, bear markets suck, everyone thinks it's over, this happens every time, and then as soon as people stop thinking it can happen again, it'll happen, right? I think there's a case to be made that he's right, and that all of this stuff is just like all of our reactions are classic bear market activity. Sure, will it be a different fashion that it takes place? Will it be the exact same no? But I do think there's a couple things to to consider that are are worth exploring the idea. That like we might just all be way too zoomed in. And like there's so much like chatter on the timeline complaining, oh, how how weak Bitcoin has been, how weak crypto is, how nobody wants it, how there's shit assets, all that stuff. But right now, this like moment in time that's what's what's happening with equities and these tech stocks, and you know, the SpaceX IPOs, like the perfect encapsulation of this, it's just a massive, it's a massive liquidity suck. There's all this like global uh political tension and shit going on left and right. So like timing hit where it was a bear market that needed to happen. The big flushes have happened. There's total dispersion of attention and capital. But if you zoom out, like do you guys remember when everyone was talking about gold and copper and shit like a couple months ago?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Look at the gold chart. I put it in the chat, Henry. Just pull up the gold chart right now.

SPEAKER_03

I haven't looked at this.

SPEAKER_01

This is on the daily. So, like, like zoom out from the hourly charts, the whatever. It's like gold had that parabolic blow-off, but it's like gold looks the same as Bitcoin. You know, like I don't think anyone's sitting here saying, oh, the narrative for gold is dead. Like, no one's ever gonna buy gold again. Right? But like this is where we're at because capital is flowing in other directions. There's dispersion, there's a tension, and there's fear because there's a ton of uncertainty. And uncertainty is what breeds like death for for risk assets. It's what breeds like you know, people to flow into other other things where momentum is. But if if you start comparing Bitcoin, the Bitcoin and gold charts, like as we were focused on the first couple months of 2026, you'd say, oh, like it Bitcoin's totally under performing gold, et cetera. It's really not when you zoom out. Everything that has happened historically is kind of just happening right now. Um, and I do think there's an argument to say if you can zoom out and you're patient, all this stuff, like we may look at this two years from now and look at the the monthly charts and say, yeah, that's kind of like you know what what typically happens in a cycle. Um so maybe things are really much more normal uh than we think, and we're just so caught into being zoomed in on the headlines day to day.

SPEAKER_03

I do think you're right on majors, but the participants that entered crypto this cycle are now vastly different to the point where we'll never have like a meme coin cycle or whatever. That sort of mania, complete mania is the only way to describe it again on that many assets at a time. I think yes, it will 100% happen on maybe a basket of three or four at a time. I don't think they're gonna be on Solana, that's for sure. I really don't think they're gonna be on Solana because the tooling has just got insane. I spoke about that a lot. Um that's true, the tooling, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But like we said this about it, same thing happened with NFTs, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it did, it did, but I think the participants are just way different. We we didn't have Fortnite kids back then, we didn't have the Axiom Final Bosses, it was literally just a bunch of brain. It was it was like a load of gainies. It was a load of gainies in us, and that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like the more friction there's been to buying these assets has always created bigger bubbles.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

Um it was good when you so are you guys saying you don't believe that new games will be created that are harder to figure out?

SPEAKER_03

I I hope so. Yeah, I hope I really hope so. I really hope so. But and I maybe this is me overvaluing the the Axiom Final Bosses, like maybe they haven't really figured out how to bridge yet. But I think bridging has become everything's become way more easier now in crypto. There's no knowledge gap anymore. Before it was a knowledge gap to get on chain, there was a knowledge gap to use Ethereum. There's some sort of fear, there was some sort of fear that you might send to the wrong address and lose all your bread.

SPEAKER_02

Um there was some sort of fear that you would buy the wrong token and your whole wallet would get drained on a thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was like you you might buy the wrong pool and like your money's just gone. Your money's vaporized. There is none of that anymore.

SPEAKER_01

And that was bullish, and that was bullish.

SPEAKER_03

That was that was bullish because the morons just got scared off. Like, if you really didn't believe and you didn't, but like go, oh, there's a real opportunity here, you would lose once and go, Whoa, this was fucked that just got scared.

SPEAKER_01

And then the people that figured it out and were up fat, that's what created the FOMO.

SPEAKER_03

That's yeah, that's what it was. The people who got rich back then were the people who really understood crypto, had been around for a while, um, and and really believed in this shit. The belief seemed to have fizzled out. Like, I I just maybe it's just a nostalgia thing, but I I remember it when people like Gainesy were making bread, it was just there was nothing better, you know? There was nothing better. Now we now we we see Axiom PL screenshots. You wouldn't get an Axiom PL screenshot from Gainesy. This guy would just say, I'm up generational, post a picture of his uh star David, and that would be Star of David screen card. Yeah, that would be it, and it would be like everyone was loving it. Or you would get Hasaka tweeting the sushi emoji and sushi would rip 40%, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Instead, we got guys like scented tweeting out like PL screen cards of whatever if you're telling me that scented, I I I don't even I mean guys like him, he's just uh he's um a main figurehead of this whole movie is ruining crypto for everybody.

SPEAKER_03

I you know, I would say I wouldn't say he's ruining it. I think he's just found a thing to what he's good at, and if this was always gonna happen, this is natural evolution of the markets, you know. He is good at this shit. There's no I'm not putting it past him, but there's a lot of other people who are isn't it easy to kind of just fragment that away?

SPEAKER_01

Like that's a different industry, like like just forget about like those new pairs and stuff. That's their that's a new game, that's a video game. They do it. Yeah, that's not that's not trading. Like it doesn't really like those guys are never gonna they can't influence and have no interest to influence like mid-caps and uh things that have established and become tradable assets, like altcoins, you know, things that have graduated to a certain level. It's kind of irrelevant, right? If you just ignore that area, yes, maybe this buying the shark cat in the shower at at 30k is not gonna happen. But like, you know, once once something's 10 mil, like those guys are no longer players in the game, right?

SPEAKER_03

Unless they have a significant amount of supply, which sometimes they do, you know? Like this is the thing, these guys buy fucking 15% on one wallet, and people people see that and they want to copy, they want to copy that. So that's what people do now. So we have a group, this massive group of participants, and this is mainly on Solana. This is on Solana only where this happens, which is why I don't think this is gonna happen on Solana ever again. Yes, there will be new games to play on probably different chains. What that looks like right now, I have no idea. But now this tooling exists, the the window to make money is gonna be way smaller because these axioms, everything else, the all these tooling will immediately be ported over to whatever chain or whatever bullshit we end up on next. Yeah, give it a month, and we'll have all the same tools, all these guys will be over there, and that'll be the end of it. So, yeah, that's why I'm less hopeful, but I still think there's gonna be windows, there's gonna be pockets, but the pocket will get smaller and smaller and smaller as time goes on.

SPEAKER_01

So, but like like the I agree with you that it all makes perfect logical sense. The one question I have is like, what happens when like Bitcoin's ripping back up to 100k, majors are all you know, like doing these face melting rips, like the money comes back on chain and it's gonna get, does it not still get frothy? Like, because what what's always happened is there's always been people who hold egregious amounts of supply early on, but like volume begets that, where it's like if if shit is just crazy enough, then like you basically the coin will outlive that in the first few hours or days, and then and then it breaks free. It's just a little harder for it to break free now. But like you'll still I I think if conditions are good, you'll still see okay, like it was a little harder for it to break out of that first run, but the the tension and mind share is all there to the point that like it just busts free of that in the first day and then it's off to the races, or or you think that's just not.

SPEAKER_03

I I don't think so in in that in that way, in that way we experienced life cycle, I don't think that's possible. But what can be possible is something new, something people are not familiar with. The tooling simply doesn't apply. Probably things like NFTs. It sounds wild, but not I'm not saying NFTs are gonna explode next cycle. Yeah, not gonna say that. But similar bullshit to that shit, we have no idea what it will look like will be there. And the people who grasp onto that and give that a chance will be the winners. Um, and these guys probably won't, you know, these guys who trade this way probably won't because they're so stuck in their way on Solana and trading this short-term game that when this next bullshit comes out, what ends up doing crazy numbers, they just won't be there for the start. They'll probably be our exit liquidity, you know. I hope so. Yeah, but uh to be fair, I think a lot of these people ran out of money a long time ago, and that is another thing.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah. I I know It's been a tough year, it's been a tough year for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I probably know 10 people who who trade like that. Um like who are still trading like that to this day. I think a lot of them just lost it all and and and realize they're actually just gambling addicts. Like that was the reality.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and that's kind of my point is like that there's a few people who are really, really good. Like it's almost like watching the top Fortnite players in the world, to be honest. This, I don't know, disscented guys, whatever, but like there's probably like a small handful that they're consistently successful and they do great. But if the if the law the ecosystem as a whole, most people are losing, then it's like they will move to greener pastures where those come when the time comes when there's opportunity. Like they're not gonna sit there and keep playing those those PvP games because they're gonna be realized they're missing out on real opportunity. Right now that doesn't exist because the market's bad. So they're trying to play this game that's been solved. Yeah, but um, but ultimately it's like for 98% of the population, it's not a it's not a good game to play, it's a bad game.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's a bad game to play.

SPEAKER_01

So people move on from it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'd say even even higher of a percentage. Like it's uh 99% of people, it's a horrible game to play. And even when, like I can say this now, I've stepped away from bonk. I bro, it was tough to sit there and tell people I wouldn't uh to the points I wouldn't even do it because it was like I would if people would message me, I'd be like, bro, stop trading. Like this is fucked. Like this is fucked. I'm seeing behind the curtain here and what's going on, and this shit just isn't good, you know. This shit isn't good. It's not even just at bonk, it was bad. It was everywhere, everywhere in the industry, people's mentality was just cooked.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, yeah, it was a dirty man. The whole bonk thing. I mean, uh and I I did want to touch on touch on this last thing we talk about is speaking of bonk, all the FOMO FUD now. Imagine seeing this all over the TL in the same exact fashion. First they came for our boy Lexapro, then they came for Bonk.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And now the same group is all coming for FOMO. Like, what's going on here? Like, this is clearly like coordinated paid FUD, right? Yeah, I mean Tom, I mean you guys probably spoke about this at length at Bonk, right?

SPEAKER_03

We did, yeah, we did. And Tom was under the he he couldn't really do anything about it, so you used to just simply ignore it. And Tom got a lot of shit. Tom got a lot of shit, and uh he didn't really do that much wrong, you know. He got caught in a lot of this shit, and he was one of the ones where the paid FUD simply worked. Um, simply worked on him. Uh, but we all know where it's kind of coming from. It's the oldest trick in the book with these guys now. Uh but this is just the reality of of winning in crypto. Um, this is what you sometimes have to do in this in this game, especially in like the meme coin game. I think I feel like this is just what they do, it's not gonna change. They can pay more than anyone else, like they can pay astronauts, it's like a gambling company, you know? They can't just austerity, yeah. It's like competing with someone like Steak. You just can't compete with them. Um, and that's the reality. That's the reality. It's one of them ones where people just have to realize, like, look, this is actually they've been paid to say this, yeah. Um and that's the end of it, you know. But as soon as you give these guys an inch, they're gonna take a mile. Like, say said the 500k users, he didn't specify that it was uh total users, and and people interpret interpreted that as uh active 500k active users, and they ran with that, you know? They ran with that.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, they find anything that you've done or said that's slightly incorrect or slightly sensitive, but like dude, like I I uh Scooter had my name on a list in one of his tweets yesterday.

SPEAKER_03

Really? I don't know if you guys saw the tweet.

SPEAKER_01

I saw that I don't know how I saw it because I I blocked and muted that guy a long time ago. I didn't even know he was still around. Um yeah, yeah. Wood is part of the cabal again here.

SPEAKER_02

I'm part of the cabal who's gonna like make bajillions of dollars when they launch a token, even though like you know, I I I don't know anything was gonna happen. But um they're just like actively sh taking everything at them right now, and it's crazy. Say tweeted out yesterday that this guy MCM has tweeted about him 300 times in the last six months.

SPEAKER_03

Jesus Christ, man.

SPEAKER_02

That's insane. Like that is insane. Number one, whoever's paying this guy is getting a great deal. Because that is working overtime. Like, that's insane level of commitment, dear God.

SPEAKER_03

Do these guys still have the Toshi Bet thing?

SPEAKER_02

Probably, but it's just like so fucking clear that like this is paid.

SPEAKER_03

Well, look, this is this is what I heard. This is only what I heard. I think Toshi Bet is owned by Pump. Um and most of these guys with Toshi Bet things are uh are involved with Pump Fun, you know? Uh and it's it's just just so happens uh a lot of these guys come out with the same sort of uh tweets. So yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

300 times just an insane level of commitment to like I don't know, man. Clipping campaigns for baseline. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, I bet I I bet they're paid in the same manner that clippers are.

SPEAKER_03

They are. To be fair, I got a for for Scooter, yes, Scooter spews out some shit uh sometimes, but sometimes he does he does call out scammers as well, but he's like he is obviously paid now. Uh the problem.

SPEAKER_01

The problem is with accounts like that though, is like, has he ever said a positive, productive thing in his existence on the timeline? Like, go through it, don't go through it here because I don't want to give him like you know, mind share, but like literally every post he makes is just attacking people. He's never posted a trade of his own. He's never he's never had a thesis for something. All he does is try to tear things down in the industry, and that's always existed in all the you know, the five plus years I've been around on on, I've been around since like 2018 on crypto Twitter. It's like that's always existed, but there was so much attention that got directed to these accounts this time around, where it's like their whole like existence is based on spreading FUD, spreading like toxicity. Um, and unfortunately it hit a point. Now, some of it was warranted because of the way pump fund proliferated, and there was a lot of vapor out there. But like what happened this cycle was like those accounts were given credibility and they were given eyeballs and they were given like some power to have some influence, and their their whole intention is based on negativity and toxicity. They don't do anything productive for the space, and therefore, sentiment as a whole in the industry eventually, at least in our bubble, eventually all trended towards that. Um because if if the people you listen to and engage with are constantly trying to tear other people down, you're gonna have more stories of failure than you are of success. That's just how life works.

SPEAKER_03

Um I feel like I I remember Scooter having like an actual productive account last cycle. He did yeah, last cycle I remember having. But he he sold that.

SPEAKER_00

He sold that for money.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe not even the same guy, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, maybe who knows. And one thing I want to make clear is that like no one at FOMO asks us to talk about this. We are just genuinely curious. And this is like something we've talked about in the past with Pump Fun and whatever. Um, and I think this is just genuinely a really bad part of our industry. And I really like fucking hate seeing it happen to anybody. I hated when it happened across the board and just seeing it still happen, and like people like having to deal with it really, really sucked. And I wish it just like wasn't a thing. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_03

To be fair, I feel like that sort of side of CT I don't even see anymore. You know, I don't even see um like well because you've probably successfully blocked it out.

SPEAKER_01

You realize it's not productive, right? Yeah, so you just move on from it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I literally don't see any of that. I don't see anyone shilling low caps anymore. I literally to be fair, I'm more on like an AI side of Twitter now, to be fair, but yeah, it's uh it's way way better. I literally just it got to the point where I just stopped using Twitter, it just wasn't useful anymore.

SPEAKER_02

Um you guys gotta run. Um we'll wrap up here, guys. Uh good chatting. We'll be back next week, Tuesday, twelve o'clock. Uh no show tomorrow. Today and uh we'll see you Tuesday, twelve pm eastern happy weekend.