Robinhood Summer | EP 76

Covering:

- Robinhood taking over

- CASHCAT flips ANSEM 

- Wood bought the top of ANSEM

And more

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Episode 76, Risk On, brought to you by FOMO. Go download it today if you haven't already. Promo code RISCON. Go trade perps. Use web app. Trade uh tokenized equities. Trade it all. Trade Robinhood Chain, most importantly. Trade Robinhood Chain. Trade Robin Hood Chain. Uh we are joined by uh our buddy Jason, um, who uh runs a show over there with the FOMO team. Um we're excited to have him here to shoot the shit with us today um and discuss the market and everything. Uh how are you today, Jason?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Good man. Excited to be here. Uh uh many time watcher, first time guest.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

It's fun to have you. I I've been on your show before. Sats and Swizzle, have you guys been?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I was gonna say, have we all have have the trifecta, all three of us have been on your show now? I think so. I think we will be all yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

I almost envy you. Yeah, I'll come back for round two. I I don't envy you having to book guests every week.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Oh, I mean, you know, I get some help for sure. Uh Buggy. Buggy, the intern, helps a lot. And say helps uh some of the bigger named guests. Paul has helped recently. Like we've got Amin is investing coming on next week. And him and Paul, him and Paul grew up together, and so he's coming on. Um yeah, yeah, yeah. I and I like reaching out, you know. Like, I think as the show has kind of grown a little bit in stature, I've gotten more reputable guests on. It's becoming a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Dude, you've had some insane guests on lately. You had Fred Wilson on recently, you had pack on yesterday. You've had who you've had some cool people on, man. How has that been going from like, you know, you had me on your show, and I'm like nobody, I'm a GPE. I'm a such a trunk of children. Has been boogle. And then you got Fred Wilson on your show.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Like week to week. Fred was a bit of a long shot, but you know, like obviously it kind of made sense to bring him on. Um, but uh yeah, it's I mean, I love it. It's great. I I am uh I'm a forever learner, and um you know, I still haven't figured out the trading game. You know, I've I've got a lot of understanding, a lot of experience, but um, I don't feel like I've made it, and I think I'm really far from making it. So like I'm I'm trying to figure out how this that how this whole thing works from all these people that I bring on.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yeah, look, you know, I actually heard that you were the inspiration for Fred wanting to come on. He saw he was watching the episode, he saw Not an Ice Cat 69 on there, and he was like, you know what? I need to be on this show also.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Uh he told me that too, actually.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Yeah, Fred wouldn't be the first person to have said that we're honest with ourselves here. Um, but uh yeah, so guys, um everyone, all anybody is talking about is Robin Hood chain. Sats, two days ago, was it now? Three days ago, Sats, you just started spamming everybody, being like, you need to buy as much cash cat as you can. Yes, and you couldn't really bridge over because relay only had like tiny amounts of liquidity. You were trying to OTC money, and you just started spam buying it and got a really good position in it. Um, I was too lazy, and now I'm just spending my whole day bear posting Robin Hood chain. But um, I want to hear from you, Sats, about oh now he's gone.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

I was incredible. I was gonna say he was very stoic right there. I thought he froze, but uh he was.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

Well then we'll start with you, Swizzle. I know you bought a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, let's talk to the guy who was not early. Let's talk to the guy who top blasted like three X higher than Sats, right? Um why did you top blast? I will say, I first off, I just I don't understand how Sats was actually early because this guy has been pretty plugged out. If you guys, if you remember last show, we were telling him this is literally Robin Hood related. He we were talking about lighter, and uh you guys remember like the um the lighter Robin Hood integration got announced over the weekend, and then like four days later, he was still talking about his tinfoil hat theory, and we were like, Yeah, dude, that happened. Like that got announced over the weekend. And he was like, Really? I had no idea. Um, and yet here this guy was who was like the first person I know who who was trading uh the Robin Hood chain. So I'm not sure that how that happened. We just got him back, maybe he can explain, and then I can't folks.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

How are you early to Robin Hood chain after you literally have not been trading crypto for like four months?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Yeah, and we all Seth, we also said you you didn't even know about the lighter Robin Hood integration. You thought it was a conspiracy theory, and then you were the first person to start trading Robin Hood on chains.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

So look, explain yourself. It reminds me of when base launched, and I was one of the first people to bridge to base. Uh, when back when there was a bit of friction. Soon as I hear there's friction on a chain, I love playing because all the capital is stuck trying to get in, trying to hoard in, shit's offering OTC. I'm loving it. I can squeeze size on. I was managing to get size through relay, and it was just as simple as click on the winner and and absolutely slam it as much as I could. Um, I felt like 20 mil at the time, like Vlad just followed, like we're on a fresh chain where like the narrative of the chain, like you can tell the crypto people love it, you know. You can tell group crypto people love it. Oh, like there's there's distribution, Robin Hood have this, this, and that. It's the it's historically the chain where all the the app where GME went crazy. Like it was, I feel like it was very, very obvious at 20 mil. Um, but it's one of them timing things. And I didn't even know the chain was launching that day. Uh, I just happened to open up the group chat, I saw the Robin Hood chain was booming. Um, and I was just like, yeah, let's let's shove some size on and uh and see what happens. Soon as I heard the bridge was was clogged and no one can get any on, I was like, okay, this I have to start shoving in. Um a lot of people were going too far.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

It's one of those things where like by the time if you're there early when it happens, like I missed it, I was out uh like offline most of the day. But like if you if you are there and you see it happen and you wait to like process what's happening, like I'm gonna like watch this and process. You're gonna end up being late, right? And I feel like Sats, you've been through that enough where you're like, don't think just by see what happens later. Worst thing that happens is you're wrong. Um, yeah. But I I think I got there later. I'd I'd been offline the whole day. I see all these, you know, Sats is is knee sliding and multiple group chats. I'm in with him. I'm like, okay, what's going on? And then actually, I think it was while you told me you were selling your your initials, was when I started buying. Uh that it was up at like 100 million from the first day. Um, and it was like dipping down to like 80. And then I I I text Sats. I say, okay, I'm I'm I'm late, but I'm gonna pop in here. And he goes, Oh, I'm selling right now. And so I was it was a little distribution phase between two podcast hosts. Um, but I I think what's interesting is like we'll get into this a lot more. And Jason, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts because FOMO is like a pivotal piece to this equation. But like this is we're still at the like the speculation phase of currently today, it's no different than any other like L2 bridge situation we've had, where like would I think you mentioned on the timeline, if you look at the flows, it's very, very obvious that like this is not retail buying, all the sole uh tokens like had a liquidity stuck. You can see the money moving from chain to chain, and there's not a lot of holders, so it's all like crypto native capital that's in there, but the speculation is about something bigger and the potential, the excitement of the potential for something to happen where you get things listed on Robin Hood, etc. Um, so I wanna I want to hear where everyone's at as far as what they think is happening here. Is it the same story with a bigger buzzword of a chain name, or is this the start of something different? Um, maybe Wood, let's start with you because I think we know your thoughts. And then I'd love to hear like the FOMO perspective on all this after that.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

No, I want to hear the FOMO perspective first because I'm gonna be a horrible bear. Let's hear Jason. You go first. I what I'm most curious about, Jason, and the thing that I think is so cool before I I can't go too full bear. I'm trying not to do that anymore, guys. You guys know this. Um is uh is um is uh Jason. Um everybody that I'm talking to is saying, oh, I need to go on to like they're finding these coins on FOMO, right? Like that's really cool. And I tweeted out this morning that FOMO's the big winner here, in my opinion. Like, fuck Robin Hood. I think FOMO's winning this. Um how like are you seeing that from your end as being someone who's so close to FOMO? Um and like the traders and all that. How how how is that feedback then?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I mean, definitely people are excited to trade these tokens for sure. I I want to like go on the record and say, like, I'm I'm I'm here representing Jason and not so much representing FOMO. I can't I can't really speak for decisions or anything like that um that are made. But yeah, I mean it's it's been a handful of days. I I run the community, right? I'm in the Discord every day talking to folks that are using the app to trade. And um the interest in the chain has been growing every single day, that's for sure. Um it's exciting to see so many Robinhood Chain tokens on the trending list. Um, we were talking before the uh before we went live about the traders, though. Like to me, what's more interesting about this whole thing is like the traders that are finding motion um on Robinhood Chain and the potential for like it started with Ansom, right? Ansome token. You had you had people uh show up on the leaderboards, like the all-time leaderboards who we've never seen before. They're edging closer to a guy like Change, who has so much like I mean, he's number one on the leaderboard. So, like there were people who held Ansom who were kind of getting pretty close to taking that number one spot from him. And now we're seeing those same people are trading Robinhood tokens and having a lot of motion just for the ability because they became known on the app through the Ansem launch or through Ansom what they've how they've traded Ansom. I think that's kind of the most fascinating piece of this whole thing. Um I I I left curved Robin Hood chain for sure. Like I I I did not I did not see the or maybe it right curved it. I I didn't see I right-curved it. I didn't see the vision like instantly, but man, like in hindsight, I I've interviewed all you guys and I've interviewed a bunch of your peers, and everybody says like you go and you do the hard thing on chain, like if like um yeah, bridging or whatever it might be. Like there's so much alpha in just being kind of early to something that's a little bit harder than pressing the buy button. Um and I'm I'm still kicking myself for like man, how did I I I've gotten so much advice uh over over the past eight over the past eight months telling me to do exactly what I didn't do. So it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Now I here's one question for you guys. Is this Robin Hood chain actually similar to these other, let's call them like the really rough friction-filled experience, you know, BNB, I mean Tron, we can go back and name a bunch of them. The one thing I noticed, and this is before we get to FOMO, because then we'll talk about FOMO, which is a complete paradigm shift. Um when you, other than that first few hours, which I actually missed with the congestion, everything, when you go try to bridge, you can do it through Rabby Wallet, through Relay, you can even do it on Uniswap Direct right now. And then you're doing token swaps through Robin Hood if you've been playing around with it. I mean, I don't think it's just me. The experience is very surprisingly frictionless in comparison to any of the other L2 bridges. Like, I have never used uh Uniswap and had swaps go through that seamlessly as I am now with Robin Hood. It is it's a weird experience. Um, is it Solana? No, it's not Solana. But now I get the FOMO part, and it's like you guys have changed the paradigm because you can just do everything on the same app, right? It's all there, all your social trading in one place. Um, it doesn't really matter what chain you're on, although the exception is like no matter how well you guys have integrated that experience, when you swap a BNB token on FOMO, there's still some latency issues and all that, which is kind of out of your control. Uh doesn't seem to be as much the case with the Robinhood tokens, right? Um and I'm I'm curious, like, does that open the door to this being fundamentally different than the other L2 like bridging chasing situations? Um or is it just like okay, it's faster than the other ones, but it doesn't really matter? Like, where do you guys where do you guys stand on that?

SPEAKER_03 13:52

I think I think it's faster than the others, but like Monad didn't have any transaction problems. But I think it's just more the narrative around Robin Hood and Vlad and the whole idea that he doesn't want to fuck it up like he fucked like or like Brian fucked up Bass. Like that's the bet. Which is other people saying that to him.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Guys, Brian didn't fuck up base. Bass has had so many billion, has had tons of great success stories on it. Like it has Robin Robin Hood's been live for 10 days, and people are calling it the next Solana. Solana spent years and years creating a product that was significantly better than anything else on the market, onboarding users, so on. Robin Hood Chain is live for 10 days with a mediocre platform that is no bet that is no better than Arbitrum or Monad or Base or ETH for that matter, probably. And people are calling it the next Solana, it's gonna suck all the liquidity and it's got the early, and we're in the early innings of Solana summer right uh like this is insane to me. It makes no sense. It's a crazy look at the big thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

For the sake of the argument, though, just for the sake of the argument, take the other side. It's not about it's not about the technology, it's about the distribution. It's about the it's about them having the ability to onboard and like up like be visible to an entire base of users who trade who are not currently on Solana. Um and that's that's the question. And again, this is this is all of us in our little echo chamber saying it. That doesn't make it true. But yeah, that's why the argument is that it's different. And yes, you're right, it's 10 days old. We've gone fully, completely to the extremes of what could possibly happen. But I think the argument is logical. Um it makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

I think like the thing with Monad and all these other ones, they didn't have 26 million degenerates KYC'd ready to gamble on a new casino. I think that's that's the main that's the main reason I bridged as well. Like that that even thought, it might not even become a reality, but that thought alone and that possibility in in the back of everyone's head is enough to pump tokens, um, which is exactly what Vlad wants. And if he can shoot out a follow and a fucking token shoots to 150 mil and they do a quarter of hyperliquid's DEX volume in in a week, he's gonna continue doing that. Like he knows what just made him a success. He knows exactly why that just made a success. And I feel like he does it again, probably pushes it to like wouldn't say he lists cash cat, I would say he probably integrates uh on-chain trading into the Robin Hood app directly.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

They've got a separate app already, a Robin Hood wallet thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Um, here's my hot take on that, just to be more on Wood's side. I know I'm flip-flopping with uh Devil's Advocate here, but I think Vlad never mentions memes again. I think he did that first post. I think it's more likely than not, he just literally that was it. He doesn't mention them. Um, and it's all speculation from here.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

I think he mentioned it again, man. I I think he does it again. I think I think he somehow into like he comments or interacts again with this cash cat. I that's what I think. I don't think they let this opportunity go to waste because it I mean it is just gonna fucking kill it for a while. Even if he sniffs around this cash cat. I think someone said in the group chat if uh Vlad has a fart, what sounds like a cat cash cat's gonna go to a bill. And they're probably not wrong.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

The problem is though, it's no different right now than Asteroid with Elon Musk. It's no different, and this I have bags, so I'm fighting myself, but like it's it's not yet been separated from all these other things, CZ, Elon, like there's just key man existential risk of like what every every token that's been launched is related to Vlad or related to some Robin Hood theme right now. Like they will have a window and it will be, you know, it could it could last for a couple weeks, it could go for a while, and there could be a ton of volume. But if it doesn't receive, if there's not a cultural migration to stop counting on, oh, Vlad has to interact with this, or like Robinhood has to list these apps, if they can't get past that, then I then I have to lean towards what Wood is saying, where it's like, well, you know, there's there's not really a sustainable future unless they can bypass that because that is a fleeting moment. Um it's like the bonk meta, it's like the tron meta where everything's just in sun themed. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Okay, it would Jason, you're you're the one talking to the traders every single day. What are these guys saying? Are we bearish? Are they bearish? Are they are they bullish?

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Um, I don't I don't know that I have a have a great sense for that. I mean, everybody obviously knows that the hotball of money is on Robinhood tokens right now. So, like, yeah, everybody's watching them. I would push back though on your idea, Swizzle, about Elon and um Asteroid. Like, Elon doesn't have a product that allows you to trade asteroid. If he did, I don't know, you might hear a bit more from him about it.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Yeah, he doesn't directly like gain from that.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Yeah, he doesn't, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Vlad inherently does. He's seeing this, you know, he's seeing this with his own eyes, and he probably sees a great opportunity here to come after Solana um and take a take a piece out of that pie. I think ultimately they want to probably push stocks on chain, right? That's the whole game here. They want to do RWAs on chain. Um, but if memes are a gateway to onboard users to get that to happen and drive volume, I think that's a fucking opportunity they take. Um, because what's the downside for them, really? What the token goes down and they get a bit of stick for a week and then it fucking blows over. Um, I know Frank was talking about the legal the legal risk. Like I don't think the legal uh legal I said not in this administration, no, yeah, yeah, exactly. Not in this one, not in this administration. If Trump launched a meme coin and it went down fucking 95%, I don't think anyone's asked.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Yeah, I mean the the one thing I mean I'm seeing everybody on the timeline bullish as hell on this. I'm seeing POW, I'm seeing Zinc, I'm seeing uh everybody being bullish on this. Um, I just like I don't know, I've been around enough times, I've seen this happen enough times, and like, yeah, Robin Hood has 26 million people trading. Those traders, I I'm kind of of the opinion that trading crypto has been made so fucking easy that like if these people really wanted to trade crypto, they probably would have already done it. If they were so such diehard traders, they would have already done it. And I don't believe, and also like you'll you see that like you see, bro, uh Cash Cat goes up and Ansom goes down. You're seeing a direct correlation to the hotball of money rotating from Solana to Robinhood. There is no new money going over there. Um, okay, so let's say these 26 million users do start to trade. How long does it take to onboard these people? How much money is Robinhood gonna throw at onboarding these users and pivoting them over to crypto? Do they make more money by these people trading crypto there? What's that? What is Robinhood's incentive to have people trading there?

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Well, keep in mind, last year, like a year ago, Robinhood was the fastest growing um part of their business was crypto, about a year and a half ago. Um, and then volume and and everything, they leaned much more into it. They made it much more accessible on the app, not not in terms of what we're used to, the accessibility, but being able to trade the top uh you know, Bitcoin and the top altcoins. They did a bunch of you know promotions on it, they made the features more accessible, and then volume nosedived, obviously during this bear market. Prediction markets saved them and were a big uh growth factor. And I guess if you factor that into crypto, it's still been a big part of their business. But um, they did last year and the last Two years make a big push into crypto. It just was at a time where the market topped, you know. Um, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. Uh, like they've clearly shown indication and interest in the past. And and like you said, Seth and Jason, like, you know, Vlad is trying to push his business. If you recognize an opportunity, there's a path forward for that. I just think there's this hyper focus in our echo chamber. We think this is the thing he cares about. Um, how big is this market actually? And like how relevant is the meme coin stuff, which is really the only thing that's trading there right now. Um, I think maybe that's a an aware, a wake-up call to them. They realize that like there's a huge demand for this, but it's a small number of total wallets uh that are trading. And so I don't know, there's just a lot, there's a lot of uncertainty still. And these these theories could be right, but there's not a lot of evidence to support that like Vlad is like diving headfirst into like the crypto Twitter meme coin sector of everything yet. Um and that's where I'm just like pressing the the like conservative, like let's like wait and see button, because um it's it's a lot to just assume that he's gonna do all of these things and do them quickly. Uh, and then what happens if these traders, like, you know, we know they're impatient. What happens if it takes six months for him to list one cash cat, you know?

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah, I mean, I think only time will tell with this if it ends up just being a nothing burger, but I just I can't see him. I can't see like he's he's like putting eyes emojis on on this. Uh like I saw that was like yesterday on uh they flipped like hyper liquid's 24 hour DEX volume. Like they obviously care about this, they're obviously looking at this and comparing themselves to the biggest players in the game. Are they just gonna let that slip and go back to fucking 10th place? I don't know. I don't see it. I don't see it. I I feel like they're gonna keep on pushing until until it's dry here. And I don't know what that looks like for cash cat. Obviously, I still hold my back, so I'm inherently bullish. So but having said that, I did buy a lot of Ansem.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

Um yeah, I just I did buy I bought more Ansom today, too. I am I I am I have this has only made me stronger in my conviction that Solana is going to continue to win. Like, dude, I was being sent foreskin, the meme, which I thought was fun on Solana two years ago, as something people are trading today on Robinhood chain. There is we're doing the exact same thing we did two years ago, three years ago, on Solana, on Robinhood chain, and you got people saying it's the greatest wealth creation opportunity that's ever existed in crypto. I am like, I am like, this doesn't n none of this makes sense. It is so dumb. I've got people, I've I saw people tweeting that like everybody I know who's ever made it in crypto is all in Robinhood chain right now. Someone a uh prominent KOL said that. I think only people trading Robinhood chain are people that didn't make it on Solana last cycle.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Well, I is it possible that both things could be true? Like, is it possible that like let's say uh the only the only token that's really like put up big numbers here is Cash Cat, right? Or am I wrong on that?

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Um like is it possible because all the other L2s we've seen, the migrations, there's always been like one or two like really large runners, and you could make an argument, what if this just has more breadth, has more legs, ends up on the Robin Hood app and explodes. The problem is all these traders, they have so quickly gone to like creating a micro cap trenches ecosystem in Robinhood, right? And like that shit is never going to like materialize and transfer into call it normies, call it like the retail trading world, right? Like there's no way they're buying your you know 150k market cap shit coin that you launch three versions of. Um so the problem culturally exists still, even if everything that they want to happen happens, it gets listed on Robinhood, flag keeps interacting, etc. etc. That could be good for one or two tokens. But if but if there's an insistence on, well, now we have to send this one and this one and this one, and then keep going all the way down the curve, at some point you kill the momentum because there's not a lot of holders yet. And if you see this crazy swinging price action where as soon as something hits a certain threshold, it gets vamped down and they start sending something else. Like that's a pretty surefire way to like prevent uh a PVE scenario. Um and I guess going back all the way full circle to Sats's first point, you like the early days because friction exists and it's harder to do that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Uh yeah, I I'm not I'm not so sure on like longer term of this chain. Like, I think obviously they just want to go down the path what everyone does of RWAs, like I said before. But I think memes is just a good gateway. It's a good gateway what they can pedal for two or three months and then push onto them traders who join the chain, the other products what they want to actually have here. I just think it's a good way to onboard. I think that's it. How long Cashcat lasts for, I don't know. Probably even saying to the end of the month is fucking crazy in this market. It is, it really is crazy. Um would I be buying right now if I didn't have like bags and shit from a lot lower? But I don't know. I wouldn't feel comfortable fully top blasting, but it's hard to make a prediction where it ends in like say a month's time.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

Jason, are you buying Cashcat here at all? I know you said that you write curved it initially. Are you still right curving? Are you looking to enter any of this stuff?

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Uh I mean I'm looking. I haven't I haven't really made any decisions. Uh I haven't bought anything of any note, you know, like I don't know. It's hard to. It's hard to at 100 and whatever million it's at right now.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

170 mil.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, it's it's pretty hard. I am still watching I am watching Ansom for a dip for sure. I think this is the dip.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Yeah, I would say I would I I am buying, I I bought uh 200 mil a lot. Um I just I can't see them like this is a whole different topic, but I can't see Ansom or Pump letting this go. Uh Solana, yeah, or Solana. Um great opportunity, loads of influences around it. Like, makes a lot of fucking sense for them to pedal. I do wish it wasn't called Ansom and uh it was like, I don't know, some fucking shit like Cash Cat. Honestly, yeah, it would make me a lot more comfortable. But I think uh just for just for how hard Ansom goes for it, I think this is an easy dip to buy. Um, I think my average entry is like 202 mil. I'll be happy with 400.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Where's it at right now?

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Uh 140 240.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Oh, I mean, he continues to control so much of the supply.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yeah, and he continues to show dedication to it. It just got listed on hype spot, which is crazy. That doesn't happen all the time.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Ansome said on the market bubble show yesterday, they he's given out uh 10 million or 20 million dollars. Uh some of that is soul, some is the token, some is uh cash, but he's given that out. It's he basically set a target yesterday. He said Mr. Beast has given out 200 million dollars over the course of his career. He aims to give out 200 million dollars through this by the end of the year. That was his that's his stated goal that he that they they repeated multiple times on the show yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Realistic, I don't know, but definitely not but it may not be it's the moonshot idea, you know. Like you need for tokens to really go to huge numbers, you need the moonshot idea. Yeah, that is true.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

And I think this was interesting because this is him explicitly stating, hey, here's my plan, guys. This is why I'm not gonna rug you. This is why I'm leaning in. I am aiming, I'm I'm doing the Mr. Beast path. Like, that's my business model. I want to become the next generation Mr. Beast. That's what he's saying. You could say that's delusional, maybe it is, probably it is, but it's a hell of a goal, man. Um, it's pretty interesting, and that's why ticker being Ansem, actually, because uh he's building a brand around himself.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

It's bigger than flipping pump market cap, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 30:52

It is that would be crazy alone, man. Like, even if that happens, what is pump's actual market cap, not FTP?

unknown 30:59

No idea.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

550, 575, something like that. We actually got close. He actually got close as well.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

It's not that far off. I've seen his Twitter as well. His Twitter engagement right now is fucking on fire. Dude, he's got a million followers, his engagement's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

I don't see the stuff. I think he has a better opportunity to sell this story than Robin Hood Chain does to onboard people.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

This is like I mean, how about the fact that he's got phasebanks is his like co-host on this thing, and this dude is just a supplementary part of the show. Like Ansom is the is the main guy. Draw think about that.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

There were like 51,000 viewers or views on his, you know, when they stream market bubble, all of them stream it, and it was like Ansom's was like 51,000, Banks was like 10, the Market Bubble channel itself was like four. Yeah, stream at the same time, yeah. They all they all stream it, they all stream it out.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

How do you do that, Henry?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Why don't we thought he's expanding to TikTok too? He started posting TikToks. Like, I think this guy has a bigger plan, man. I think there's something, I think there's something here. And um the so I'll say this. I have a similar feeling about cash cat for different reasons. Like, I would if I didn't hold either, like I think you guys said it's hard for you to buy here. I wouldn't buy here. I am scared to sell cash cat just because of the possibility. Like, I would I'm scared to sell. I feel like I should sell right now, but I'm scared to, just in case. With Ansem, like this is the first time I've held size in a token and experienced a disgusting drawdown over the course of a couple days and not worried at all. Like, not un not uncomfortable at all. Would be scared to sell.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

How much um supply does he actually control? Like, what is what is 60%?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Like 65 or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Okay, so like is that what he's been airdropping, or he's using the creator rewards to airdrop?

SPEAKER_04 32:55

I think he's using that supply to airdrop, but I don't know that to be true. I think he's using the creator rewards to add to liquidity and to compensate people for doing work on the token. Like what means and what have you. So, like your sentiment there is my sentiment on Ansom too. Like, I'm I'm actively like adding money on chain to buy Ansom. I missed it. Yeah, like I think it's a no-brainer. I think that this is a gift that Robin Hood Chain is here, and that people are going to be people who rotated are going to be regretting that.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

I actually I had the same thought as you would. I I thought people are saying, oh, it's terrible timing, it's brutal that Ansom did this, and then Robin Hood Chain drops. In a way, I actually feel the same as you. I feel like it's very fortuitous, like it's fortunate timing and it's perfect because what it's done is created a very necessary like shake out of the momentum traders. They found something else shiny to go to, which allows it to have a healthy correction at the perfect time. And then it's like, yes, there's this small, give it whatever percentage chance you have that Robinhood ends up being this monstrous thing we never anticipated, and and it really is the next thing. Okay, in that case, it dies, but very small chance that happens. And if if and when Ansem survives a massive liquidity suck like that, then it just becomes so much more clear. It becomes so much more primed if this continues on for second leg. Um, and that's why I'm excited, would like I I'm actually like happy that this dip happened when it did, rather than just really unhealthy growth straight to a billion or whatever. Like, then it would be a problem, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

I agree. What price do you get shaky? What price do you like? How far does it go down where you're like is he is he in trouble with, you know? Sub 90.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Where's the bot? Where's the bottom of like the first explosive uh candle up, like that massive green candle?

SPEAKER_04 35:03

160 uh down here, 150. Uh no, below that.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

The the obvious chart bottom was 190. Well, I feel like everyone every time with a brain wall.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah. I feel like everyone should have added there, but I didn't. I didn't. Um it could revisit there easily. We got a few more days minimum of the Robin Hood stuff.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

So I yeah, I need Jason's famous uh average buyer chart.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Yeah. Where's the average buyer chart? Where's the average buyer chart? Actually, can you explain? Let's let's talk about that. Tell us where it is and then explain it to us and explain why you're so religious about the average uh buyer chart.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah, so anchored VWAP, man. This is like a a pretty classic technical analysis um tool that has been popularized over the past, I don't know, handful of years by my buddy Brian Shannon. He uh essentially the idea is like you take uh the the VWAP, which is volume weighted average price, and you anchor it to a point in time. You can anchor from highs, from lows. I like to anchor from like a launch candle. And so that just gives me an idea of like where does the average buyer own this token from the from the moment it launched. And that average buyer just represents a good understanding of like how the crowd feels at any given time. If price is above an anchored VWAP, especially from launch, then that means that the average buyer from launch is in the money on the token. If the average buyer is in the money, then generally speaking, like the feeling is gonna be like, oh, we're bullish. Uh the token should continue to go up. I'm gonna continue to hold the token because I'm at least in the money. If not, I'm you know in profit. If price drops below the anchored VWAP, especially from something like launch, then it's it's a signifier of like, okay, the average buyer is now losing on this trade. They are now down on the trade. They're either break-even or they're red. And when you're down on a trade, maybe not you swizzle, maybe not you stats or you would, but like the average person, when they're down on a trade, they're like, fuck. I just hope I can get back to break-even. And so when price reverts back to the mean, then what used to be like support when price was above the average buyer, or rather below the average buyer, when price, when the average price or when the average buyer is now down on the trade, when price gets back to their like buy point, they cut. Um, it's just a natural uh, you know, philosophy, right? It's like kind of psychology. Yeah, they're back to break even. I I'm not losing on the trade anymore, thank God. And so they cut. And so the initial test of an anchored VWAP from the other side is generally a sell. Um, I want to say that Ansem bounced right back up to it. It's like that's where it, that's where it cannot get over today, is that spot. Um now, whether or not it ends up playing out, we'll see. It it can work really, really well, especially on like first tests, whether it's coming prices coming from above and testing it, or prices coming from below and testing it. Um but it's just a good like temperature gauge, more than anything, uh to for you to understand the it's like a sentiment reading more so than it is a line in the sand or like a technical analysis tool. I'm not, I I very rarely am going to take trades off of it, but I'm going to watch it and see what happens around it. If price is able to hold, then or if it's able to support price, then that tells me, okay, average buyer's hanging in, they're staying in their positions, and and oftentimes price will correct back up to the upside. And if price gets stuck below it, then you have to get rid of all of the sellers who are non-believers at that point, right? You have to like you have to filter through them. So like if price can regain it, then generally what you would anticipate price would regain it, it would come back to test it, and then you'd be trying to like use those previous lows as your spot to kind of like um risk off of.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Yeah, so it's sort of like an emotion, it's an emotion gauge, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

It's an emotion gauge, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

So the top 100 buyers, the top 100 holders of Ansom's average entry is 91 million. That tells me that they aren't selling. And they want higher.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, very possible. I I also look if you pull back up that chart, I I'm always looking at like um imbalances. So like wicks, wicks exist to like fill imbalance. When you have candles like the one five, six, seven candles ago, the big bar from like 200 million to about 400 million. Um there's a bunch of imbalance there, right? It that that candle, that day was just like all buying. And oftentimes price needs to come back in and like backfill some of that stuff. Often, often you'll see price come and backfill all of it, and it'll do it often with wicks. It won't always do it with like full-bodied candles. And so today's low is basically like completely filling the imbalance. If you look at like the small candle before the big one, like uh, I don't know. Yeah, that that one, right? The small one before the big one, you see like there's a wick on the small one, uh, an upper wick. And then the next day has kind of a small lower wick. Uh, that whole area in between is unfilled imbalance. So just a bunch of people got stuck waiting for fills. A bunch of buyers got stuck waiting for fills they didn't get. And so once those imbalances get filled, then potentially you have a chance for a reversal too. You have a chance now, presumably anybody who was a buyer down there that didn't buy, that was waiting for that price to come, now they're buyers. Now they have filled their positions.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Is this what we call the fair value gap?

SPEAKER_01 40:58

It is it is a fair value gap. I I I like to call them imbalances because I think it's I don't know, fair value gap feels for day tradery. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

For like TJR when you're talking about an FPG.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Yeah. So by the way, one one interesting thing about this, Jason. Uh, like when I listen to you talk about this, my assumption is that like, oh, this would this would make a lot of sense, especially for like newer tokens. Um, but this is a metric that's actually used uh for majors. And like I think a lot of the institutions were using this as one of the indicators. Like you all think about TA and sentiment, and they're it's always there's a lot of correlation causation where it's like sometimes this stuff gets front run and there's a psychological component of it. But um actually this happened with the after 1010. Um there, like if you guys know who Jeff Park is, um I forget he used to be a bit wise, I think he left, but like he, if you I was going back and looking, and like he was talking about the the average buyer of Bitcoin after the 1010 crash, the average buyer price was around 90k. And if you remember that, like we crashed well, like once we lost that level, we crashed well below. And then exactly what Jason's talking about, like we had that rally and then basically fell short. We we we surpassed 90k for a day or two and then lost it again pretty definitively. Um, so there is a lot of like sentiment, there's a lot of like psychological uh layers to this where it's like to your point, even with an asset as large as Bitcoin, that can be a real factor. If like the average buyer you lost 90k definitively, and then they see an opportunity to get back to sell at breakeven. I guess the psychology makes sense where it's like, well, now that I got back to breakeven, I'm much more likely to sell because I can get out of this, I can wash my hands of it. Um, and so yeah, I mean, I I like it. I I think it's um it's just to me, it's like one of many tools, and and especially in if you're just trading meme coin specifically, like TA almost works better in a way than with fundamentally driven assets. But you also have to like, I feel like to be successful, you have to front run and anticipate some of these levels and specific things happening because if you wait for confirmation, things move so quickly in either direction, it's too late to act on it. So it's almost like you have to have the balls to be predictive about this. And it's like, okay, it's going to reclaim this level, or it's going to lose this level because I can feel that coming. And having the ability to anticipate and act on it is is one thing. It is like the next level to just like seeing these things and being able to like rationalize that they're part of the equation.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Yeah. Yeah. I think TA definitely works better on meme coins because it's a psychological thing, you know. It's I think the best example, the best, mostly recent, recent example is the answer. Some 191 mil. I feel like that was the most the obvious point in the chart everyone was looking at where you know it's gonna get bids and you know people are gonna react because people all think in the same way. Like people all we're all looking at the same chart going, I would want to bid there, and the only people who do in the end is the patient ones. Um, the guys who get stuck uh overhead and they they buy the 300 mils, the 400 mils because they're like, Oh, I don't think we're gonna get the 191s. They're the guys who get punished, the ones who always feel like they have to be in a position. I was thinking about this the other day, um or not the other day, fucking like today, uh like this morning. I think the ones who are most successful on chain are the fucking patient ones who realize they don't have to always be in a position. Um, I think that separates the people who lose it all and the people who maintain and have a portfolio on a slow gain instead of a one that shoots up and then comes right back down. Um mistake I made in the past as well, like two cycles ago, is I just felt like I always had to be in a position in a bull market. Like if I didn't have a position when big Bitcoin was up 2%, I would be like, fuck, I'm sidelined. But now it's like I just don't care. You know, I just if if price rallies without me, I'm just fine. I know there's gonna be more. I know there's gonna be more tokens. If Ansom sprinted to 400 mil without me uh two days ago, I I wouldn't have even I wouldn't have batted an eye. But like if I get the price what I wanted, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna take it.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, that's the nature of having having a bag already, you know, like you've been through cycles, you you're not chasing a bag anymore. You are now you're actually more in the um in the process of like protecting it, right? So many young traders are everybody's trying to get the bag. And so like they're not thinking like that. It's like, no, no, no, I missed it. I how do how the fuck did I miss it? You know, patience is not a virtue for for a newer trader trying to build a bag.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

That is true. That is true. But and they're playing a very different game of of they're they're forced to be early, they're forced to be early because their size is small. Um it's very hard uh to gain a small bag in the in this game to to absolute it's absolute millions, but being on Twitter makes it feel like everyone's doing it sometimes. Um when it's that is just simply not the case.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

I think that's a big problem with uh with like people who do go from from like not having much to all of a sudden coming into a large like a larger portfolio is like and it probably doesn't help that they see people like us like we're on phone, like I'm on FOMO now, and it's like I'm doing crazy dumb stuff because I started with something smaller and I'm trying to like run it, I'm trying to spin it up, and so I'm egregiously flipping in between things, right? Knowing that there's going to be volatility. But like the reality is you can't move with the same speed with a large portfolio that you do with a small one. Um, if you if you have a very small portfolio, you know, five figures or less, and and you know, you're just trying to like make something out of it, um, you you can justify much easier doing that. What you were talking about, Sats, which is like I get out of something and I immediately go find another position. Because if it starts to go wrong, I can just I can just clip out of it, you can be very agile. Once you start moving more size around, you can't do that. You can't just like scale in and out of positions really seamlessly. And so if you hit a big trade and your thought is to like immediately rotate 100% of that into another position, it's just like getting in and out is not going to be as easy. And like you're used to operating in a certain way with a very different like style of portfolio. And that's where a lot of people run into trouble. I think it's like you end up round tripping large amounts because just like the nature of what it means to trade a small portfolio or a larger one.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Yeah, I tell you who is really good at this, not to glaze him. Wood is good at what is good at this, uh, about aggressively clipping out when things go fucking wrong. We're never scared to cut a massive position when things turn 2% south. Like, I've seen it so much, especially last cycle. Like, coins where everyone was bullish, you see the a bit of a slight red flag, price action doesn't go your way, and you'll cut a six a mid-six figure position in the space of 10 minutes, and everyone will clown you for it because oh my god, you got slipped on this size, and then price nukes 30 the next day, and you're already out, and you're dunking on the timeline. Um, yeah, that was something last cycle. I I didn't do uh because I had such big size in the coins. I was like, fuck, I'm when I sell, I'm gonna nuke this price fucking 20% sometimes. Um, like, and then I'm gonna cause a massive cascade. Uh Wood would be the first one out.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

He would be called then you end up holding for a minus 60% instead. Whereas Wood got it, would got out.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yeah, Wood's out. Wood's out. That the only coin I I think I've mentioned this on the show, the coin that reminds me of that, and when I realized I was like, fuck, Wood is good at this was float. You fucking cut when things look south, and I was fucking stuck in a like a 600k position, and I was like, fuck, this guy just got out before me, and the charts down 25%. This bastard. Um, and I realized I should have been cutting at the same time, but there you go.

SPEAKER_04 49:19

Um, yeah, I mean, I I'm I'm sending a tweet to you, Henry. Uh slippage, I mean, it's just the name of the game, right? Like the liquidity and all this shit is so bad. Like, if you have a big position and the door is so small, like my goal is to be the first person out the door whenever I can be. You blow the fucking door open, blow the fucking door open and see what happens. If I see something hovering at support and like low volume, I just hammer the sell button. And like I'll be the one to break break it. Um, but yeah, slippage is just a small price to pay to watch people panic, is uh one of my favorite things. I like to that's a banger.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

2024. 2024. Is that is that a Rex original or is that you?

SPEAKER_04 50:00

I don't remember if that's a Rex original or me, but this was before I had an before before I had anybody following my account.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Oh, this is 2024. Yeah. Sorry, Rex's was similar. Rex was uh uh one clipping out is just a small slippage on one clipping out is a small price to pay to to to watch people panic. Because maybe it was just Rex stole it from me. Yeah, he probably did. He probably did.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

That was something I've tried to adapt this cycle with. Like, obviously, I've been very patient. Like it was everyone was surprised when I was the fucking one of the first ones to bridge over to Robin Hood, but it was it's like shocking, honestly. But I I learned from last cycle is it's uh you just gotta sprint in the good moments and and literally sit still when it's shit. Um, and now is one of the moments you you sprint. I got obviously a bit lucky with with the with hitting cash cat, but it gives you enough capital to just sort of just just okay, like I'm gonna gamble pretty much all of this um on other shit, aka I rotated most of it into Ansem. Um got lucky with these levels, and yeah, I view this as sort of the time to sprint, and I would say in probably two or three weeks, it'll be time to sit still again and and do fuck all. Um, and at that time, I'm not gonna be holding any bags. When I clipped out of Cashcat, it was uh I sold, I I probably put in the top, like I was selling the one with the 150s on that first thing, and I was selling aggressively, uh, going wood mode, sort of just selling 20-30% clips, watching the chart go down uh with a massive smile on my face.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

So you were saying that it was time to sprint to this chain when you were messaging. You I think you sent a message in in our show chat too. You were like, Wood, have you bought Cash Cat yet? It was like nine o'clock at night my time, and I was sitting there, and I was like, and you guys were all talking about how you had to go on relay, you couldn't get size through on relay, and I was just like, Yeah, I'm going to bed. Like, I'll see you tomorrow. And maybe this is like me being like, this is definitely me being lazy, but like this tweet from Alex Weiss was such a fucking banger. Did you see Dip Wheeler post that picture of him up there? Yeah. How it feels to buy coins on Robin Hood and him say, as somebody who's done it before, it feels even worse to buy on Robin Hood chain. It's a Robin Hood chain hater right there. A world-class Robin Hood chainer. Hey, Robin Hood Chain hater. And I think I'm gonna continue Robin Hood chain hating today. I think I'm gonna make it my day to just hate on this hater.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

For the rest of the week, today's Friday, for the rest of the week, Wood's entire personality is gonna be dunking on the Robin Hood chain. Wood, wouldn't it go at any point?

SPEAKER_04 52:54

I don't think so. I don't listen, I genuinely believe uh our boy Doug Funny he he uh replied to me and said this, but alleged I guess 95%, and uh Money Printer tweeted this too 95% of volume on Robinhood chain is native crypto money. 95%.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 53:19

Why what is gonna like it's just a hotball of money? It's all it is, it's another rotation. Cash Cat is a terrible meme, it is not a good meme. They are running back the same playbook we've ran a dozen hundred times now. What are they gonna do, fucking like uh snake fish over there, snake cat or whatever, whatever these other memes are? We've all tried to run Fish Copter. I'm not they're not doing anything original. It all depends on Vlad Bull posting it. This means nothing to Vlad. Vlad is a billionaire, he does not give a flying fuck about this. Um, is my opinion. Maybe he's got shareholders. What if he does? He's got shareholders, but like, is this really gonna generate shareholder value? This is a small part of his business.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Can I talk to you guys about something Robin Hood related that I think will drive shareholder value? Yes. That we brought up on the show in the past. Um, a lot of talk about the meme coins on Robinhood chain right now, and it's it's kind of uh taken away the noise from something potentially bigger, which is I this this whole lighter Robin Hood integration dynamic. One thing that has opened my eyes a little bit, and obviously we've already talked on the show, we're very bullish lighter here. But one thing I find very interesting is if people are this excited in the crypto space, the crypto community, about this Robin Hood chain and being able to trade memes, does that not just like add additional validation to perps could be a pretty big thing with Robinhood? And does that not mean like this lighter thing is a big deal? This lighter integration? Like it got a big candle the day it happened, but like I'm sitting here thinking, wow, people really care about Robin Hood being a big player in the crypto game. Is that a scary thing for hyper liquid? Like, is that is is this something that's a legitimate uh chance to be like an explosive breakout um opportunity? Like, is Robin Hood going if they're gonna attack the entire vector, perps has to be a part of that equation, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Yeah, I don't think it I don't think it affects hyperliquid because you have to KYC on there. You have to KYC on Robinhood still. Um that's the that's the only moat hyperliquid has in this game, in my opinion, no? The no KYC angle.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Well, if you're saying that, that's not what the sentiment was a couple months ago.

SPEAKER_03 55:47

What was the sentiment?

SPEAKER_02 55:49

It was that they had the superior product. It was, you know, a bunch of people have tried, but hyperliquid's the best.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

To be fair, I do think it is, but I think that's uh it's a UI thing for me, which is an easy fix. Um comes with time. Uh is liquidity good on LiA? Like, I I don't actually use the platform. One of them guys.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

I I haven't traded size. I can't say I've traded size there. So like I haven't had any issues. It's worked, it's worked really well, seamlessly, very similar user experience. But I I I haven't, you know, I haven't tested the limits of slippage and all that. So I can't say yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

I I would say like the UI UX stuff, it's like that will just come with time, and is especially if Robinhood are just becoming a wrapper of it, which they are, um, they're gonna make a good UI UX. So yeah, I guess I guess I guess so. It could it could compete, but the only issue with that is that Robin Hood users have kyc. Um if not, I think that would be yeah, I would say it's a hype competitor. But hype's actually in a crazy spot right now. Um would you guys be buying here? Like 67. I just I was looking at this chart the other day, and it's like, is there better opportunities right now?

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Well, it depends what you're talking about. Like, I'm a long-term holder of hype. I just hold spot and never think about it. But um, yeah, like what are you comparing it against? Is this a long-term hold? Are you are you talking about opening a position? I I think there's so much context there you would have to clarify.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

Would you rather hold lighter or hype right now?

SPEAKER_02 57:27

I'm a killer guy. Beta, baby.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Beta.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

But far more, far more upside. Um but but that's that's again, that's a risk profile decision, you know.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

Yeah, and but that's also a crazy chart. I'm telling just just based on charts, it's uh they're both hard ones to buy right now. I wouldn't f I wouldn't find I wouldn't be comfortable buying hyperliquid here with size for long-term holds.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

What was the TGE? What was the TGE price on lighter?

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Um let's have a look.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

I think it was quite a bit higher. I know all-time high was around four dollars, but I don't know what actual TGE price was.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Yeah, I I think it was the full I don't think that's the full history of the chart.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Yeah, no, thumbnail doesn't have the full the full history, which is a shame. Which is a big shame. But yeah, yeah, I don't I don't know what the the TGE price of this was. I remember I remember the TGE happening though, and everyone was absolutely fuming. Um I've never seen so much anger around it.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

At what point does the overhang of somebody like ice getting involved in perps start to become real?

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Of who getting involved?

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Ice, like inner intercontinental exchange.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Yeah, I mean I I think that like all that type of stuff is why you constantly have like the polarization of opinion with hyperliquid, right? Um and that there's just theoretically so many big players that could come into this. Um, but the first mover advantage is all is all always tends to be pretty real, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

Um sound like XY, Jason. He always says TradFi is gonna eat everybody in this.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

I mean, I don't know. My theory on perps is just that most people who are trading options in TradFi will switch to perps. Most people, not everybody. Options will still be relevant for some maybe more um intelligent traders, but like the average Joe Schmoe who is buying zero DTEs, like why would you buy a zero DTE if you could just trade a perp? If you know the difference between the two, yeah, that is true. You wouldn't, like, there's no point. The options are too confusing.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

Options are confusing, man. Yeah, they're really hard to understand. They're not in it's it's crazy that it's the main way people trade because it's they're not intuitive.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

It's leverage, right? I mean, that's what it all boils down to is leverage. It's the easiest way to get it.

unknown 1:00:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

So if you but also what's crazy to me is like, I mean, I have a bunch of friends in TradFi. Half of them don't even know what perps are. Like, I I know traders that are like bad ass options traders trading big size don't know what perps are. Which just kind of kind of blows my mind. But just that simpler better product. The education around it is not there, you know, like they're just because they're not available here. Or for mostly for the most part, they're not available here. I was asking I was asking Matthew about this yesterday, and he was saying like he thinks that they're coming quite sooner than later.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

Yeah, man. I I sorry, I was just looking just to follow up on lighter. So uh the opening price on TGE was $3.37, uh, but the initial exchange offering was $2. I guess that's like the discounted uh price people got in for the pre-sale. Um I'm just looking at it. It's like so lighter is trading at like 600 million market cap right now. Hype is at 17 billion, that's 17.2 billion, 64 billion FTV. I don't know what lighter's FTV is. Uh that's a big gap.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

It is.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

And and the the smaller one is has the Robin Hood integration. Maybe it's not as big a deal as we think, but is that just like is it right curve to just like be rationalizing why that's not a big deal? It sounds like a pretty fucking big deal. Yeah, it does sound like it sounds like a pretty fucking big deal.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Yeah, in my opinion, lighter and perps is a bigger opportunity for Robinhood than Robinhood chain is absolutely you can introduce perps to the common person who's yellowing zero DTA options, and they can trade those now on Robinhood for everything versus like a chain which like has this crypto stigma to it. I don't know. I think that's a bigger story.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Guys, I this is this is like I'm struggling with it because it feels too obvious, and it's this thing I've been thinking about for the last like three weeks where I'm like, like, what am I missing? Why why is this so obvious? Like, why does it seem so much bigger? And there's got I know there's always the shoe that drops, there's always issues that come up later, and then you look at it after getting excited with your napkin math, and you're like, Oh, I didn't think about that. Like, we've all been there, I'm sure there's something. But right now, I am I'm racking my brain trying to find the something for why this thing doesn't just absolutely explode.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the whole of Robin Hood, all the all that all them 26 million users just got access to perps, and light is on the back end. Doesn't really get much better than that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Truly doesn't but they don't have full access to perps, right? They can't just trade any asset right now, can they?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Not right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

No, no, I don't think so right now. That's the North Star, though, I think. Yeah, that's the North Star. It's just a matter of like when they become accessible.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

Is this all gonna be within like a separate Robin Hood crypto app, or is it all under the same umbrella? Like that's an important distinction. Important question.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

It would be, I think it'd be pretty silly to put it in a different, a totally different space.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

Yeah, but at least you don't want to crowd it view. You don't want to crowd, you don't want to crowd the app full of features that you know they already have a model that works. Um you don't want to start sticking loads of different features on and strapping loads of things on and become crowded, but I don't know, it could fit naturally.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

It could fit very tricky execution question because people aren't just gonna switch over from options to perps like in a day. Like you gotta figure out the right way to transfer.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

There's an education issue. There's a they've got an onboard people to perps of people who historically are options only traders. And like you said, Jason, a lot of like I'm the my friends are the same. A lot of the guys I know in TradFi. When I explain perps and how a perp contract works, they're like, Oh, that sounds interesting. I don't give a fuck. I'm back to options, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

I think they they listen to it and they're like, that's cute, but it's too good to be true. Like it's too good to be true. No, no, it's not you can't do it that simple, yeah. Yeah, they like the complexity.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:29

Yeah, yeah, they like feeling smart, they like talking about gamma and shit. No one cares about gamma, bro. Um, but yeah, it's it's a it's an execution problem which it's gonna be tough to solve. I actually now now we've said it, I don't know how they're gonna address it. But I do agree, like it does feel like just a fucking obvious play, and there is something we're maybe missing. Um I should have fucking bought when I uh originally did this fucking shit, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

If you genuinely scares me how obvious it feels. That's what scares me. It makes me feel like I must be wrong.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:03

Oh my god. Sats, if you bought that and then caught Cash Cat, I would that would be a generational run.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

It would be a generational comeback. Yeah, it would be a generational comeback after being uh sat in cash for fucking absolutely months. Yeah, I should have bought should have bought a light up, but should have there we are.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:20

Um all right, let's wrap it up here, guys. Uh good chatting. Um let's see where Anson and Cash Cat are after the weekend. I am gonna bear post my ass off for the next, I don't know, a few hours probably.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

Top the chain, would top the chain.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:35

Top the chain. I'm gonna top the chain personally. I'm gonna take full responsibility. That happens when he buys. That happens when I buy, exactly. So um, anyways, we'll be back Tuesday noon. Jason, awesome having you on, man. Yeah, pleasure to be here. Love all you guys. Um, and we'll all come on, we'll all come join you again. Fun shooting the shit. Um go download FOMO today. Uh promo code RISCON, trade Robinhood chain, and bear post it on FOMO with me. Um we'll be back Tuesday at noon, guys. See ya there. Bye.