No Really, Trust Us
No Really Trust Us, is the B-movie podcast for people who love B-movies!
No Really, Trust Us
'Mute Witness'
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Join us for another thrilling episode of No Really Trust Us - or at least an episode where we discuss the thriller Mute Witness! A movie that explores the seedy underworld of Russian snuff films, semi corrupt cops, and the difficult line between comedy and suspense.
Produced and Hosted by Ken Cornwell, Matt McNevin, and John Benedetto.
Edited by John Benedetto.
We try to make luck much big.
SPEAKER_03Happy birthday, monkey spiker. No really trust us. Uh hope you enjoyed the show. Hello. Welcome to the podcast No Really Trust Us, where we, the volunteers, watch movies that may not look like they're particularly great, but no really, trust us, they really are good. With me, as always, are my partners in crime, Deadto and Ken. Say hello to the people, Dedo.
SPEAKER_02Hello, people. I gotta admit, I'm actually a little confused. I thought this podcast was three bearded dudes talk about shit.
SPEAKER_03So I'm well, I think that's all movie discussion YouTube channels and podcasts. Oh, right. Right. That's a good point. A beard with slight gray in it is a requirement to have a show like this. So we fortunately all meet that requirement. So we do. We uh and spades.
SPEAKER_02We are knocking that out of the park.
SPEAKER_03Uh anyways, I mean who are you, Deadto? What do you do?
SPEAKER_02I make stupid jokes. I am Deadto, I am a video editor, writer, occasional filmmaker, and I like movies that no one's heard of. Uh I like telling people about them because I have a beard, and thus I assume everyone wants to hear what I have to say.
SPEAKER_03That is, of course, the case. And Ken, tell the people about yourself. I am Ken. I don't have a nickname.
SPEAKER_00I am we're still working on that, Ken. We've still got to work that. I know. I know. It's it's yeah. By the end of the season, maybe we'll get one for me. R.I.P. Cornstar. You burned right.
SPEAKER_03Cornstar was pretty good. It was not bad. Given the nature of today's film, we could call you the cornographer. That's I like that.
SPEAKER_02It sounds dirty, but it isn't.
SPEAKER_00I like that. Oh boy, that might be it. At least for this. You're like syllables. Otherwise, I would absolutely commit to that. You would. You would. So I'm a video producer and a writer. I also love movies that nobody's ever heard of and love talking about them. And I almost shaved my beard off today. So I'm glad I didn't because I would not have would not have fit in. Not have fit in with the group. Like completely? Maybe not completely, but a lot shorter. Okay. All right.
SPEAKER_03So glad you didn't. And I'm Matt McNevin. I am a commercial video producer and also a adjunct professor at American University, hence my nickname, The Professor. And I'm here to introduce today's film, which is a film called Mute Witness, which at first I was a little reluctant to do it for this podcast, because kind of the premise of this podcast is that we kind of take movies that either don't look promising or that people haven't really heard of. And I thought that this movie may have been a little too big or too well known for that. But I did a little research in my immediate circle, both amongst film nerds and amongst normies, I guess we'll call them. And none of the normies knew what the hell I was talking about. None of them even heard of it. And there's even some some friends of mine who are, you know, are movie fans, not film nerds, but like movie fans who hadn't really heard of it. So I figure, okay, well, that gives me enough justification to do this one. Because this is a film I have loved for a long time. Going back to my video story days, this was always frequently on my picks list for customers to rent. And uh Ken, you had you had heard of it prior to to doing it for this film, right?
SPEAKER_00For this show, right? Yeah, I had heard of it, but I had never seen it. But I remember it from the 90s because I'm so old. Uh but I remember I I did remember the movie coming out. I remember the poster. It was a really memorable poster with a woman's lips sewn shut. And I I knew it, I think I knew it had been filmed in Russia, in Moscow. But I think that's all I knew. And I knew it was like a Hitchcockan thriller, but that I think that was about all I knew going into it.
SPEAKER_03And Deto, had you what was your knowledge of this film prior to the episode?
SPEAKER_02Virtually nothing. The the poster did look familiar, but on the other hand, I'm sure there's like a few posters out there in the horror world of people with their lips sewn shut. So yeah, this was not one that I recall seeing on the video star shelves as I wasted my youth. Um, so yeah, so I went in this one pretty blank, and I was I was a better viewer for it, I think.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, that poster was pretty widely circulated. Even if you hadn't heard of the movie, you've probably at some point on the internet seen some version of that poster, which was the very famous the word mute in sutures over a woman's mouth, and then below it in red says witness. Uh, and I want to say, like, that it seems like that was the first time I saw that kind of artistic idea for a poster, and then ever since then, that turns up all the time. Like, Ken, you mentioned like that that style of you know, the the sutures firming forming a word or like going over someone's mouth has been done a lot. Um, and I'm gonna say this is patient zero for that, I think.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, it's actually, I feel like maybe a little misleading too. I think as as as clever a poster as it is, it I I look at that and I think this is a movie about a courtroom trial and witness intimidation. Like, so like I wouldn't even expect this in the throne, I would expect this in the drama section, you know. Like, so I do wonder if that affected its popularity.
SPEAKER_00I always thought it was more of a horror movie, too. Which I think you could also interpret. I'd say Ken's movie, yeah, image. And I think that's now where we see it a lot, that kind of similar, yeah, similar vibe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like it does have kind of a torture porny kind of look to it, which is not the film at all. In fact, the director, and I would agree with him, the director doesn't even consider this a horror film. He considered it a suspense film. Oh, absolutely. And I would say that's absolutely the case. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily call it horror at all. And it does have like a horror poster, and also that's also not the lead actress from the movie, which which I don't know. I don't know why that always bothers me. Classic. Yeah, different different actors on the poster than they do in the movie, but uh, but that's just me, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Well, IMDB has anyway, uh sorry, IMDB seems to have an alternate poster that does have it looks like it's uh it looks like it's British.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it looks lame.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and it's like so it's it's it's it's a picture of her in the bath because you gotta be like, hey guys, there's a naked lady in this movie, but it's stamped on her mouth instead of stitched. And then I uh this year's shallow grave by time out, which I'm not sure what was what was next year's shallow grave.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Again, has nothing to do with shallow grave, is not really the same type of film. This just has nothing to do with it. Which I I don't know why they had trouble selling this movie, because it's it's pretty pretty easily sold, I think. But that's that's just me, I guess. But before we get too far, we should, I guess, do a quick little synopsis of it. I'm gonna do this on the fly because there's not much to it. So, and basically the premise of it is that the main character is a woman named Billy, and she is the mute witness of the title. She uh is mute, she's not deaf, but it's established early on that she is hard of hearing, so she has trouble hearing people, but isn't totally deaf. So she speaks only through sign language, and she is a special effects makeup person, and she's working on a film in Russia, and one night she gets stuck in the in the studio and she goes back to her box of effects and she notices that there's another film being shot unofficially when the the studio is dark, and she comes to realize that it's actually a snuff film being filmed, and the woman is actually being murdered on on camera, and she witnesses this, and the two people filming the film see her, and they she runs away and tries to escape, and she does manage to escape, and then she has to convince the authorities and the people around her that this is real and it really happened, and then the cat and mouse game continues where the killers try to get to her and she tries to stop them, and it's a whole cat and mouse game until the very end. So that's pretty much it. It's just you know, it's your classic kind of Hitchcock setup. I mean, Ken called it a Hitchcockan, and I know that word is kind of overused a lot, I think, to describe just generic suspense films that aren't really Hitchcock. But if ever a term were to use be used to describe the film, it's Hitchcockan because it pulls kind of wholesale a lot of Hitchcockan techniques and tropes and devices that he used and puts them all together, I think, in a really clever and really really well done way that really displays a lot of craft, I think. Um so what did you guys think overall in watching it? Because it's the first time both of you had seen it. I've seen this movie, I don't know, a dozen times over the years. I really love it, I really like it a lot. And I know when we choose these films, we're not really slaves to any sort of algorithm based on the movies we choose. But I have to say, I do have my 4K Arrow Films Mute Witness, which just came out not long ago. And it's a really great transfer. They went back to the original camera negative, they restored it. If you're a physical media nerd like I am, Arrowfilms does great work, so they don't sponsor us. I'm not being paid to say that, but if you don't sponsor it, like a film, Aero Films does get it. That's right. Yeah, yeah. But Aerofilms does a really great job, and they did a great job with this because they did a great job restoring it. And I and I watched it from that disc and it looks gorgeous. Um, and even on it's it is available on Shutter and various streaming services and for rent and things like that, and it still looks pretty good, but the 4K disc just looks just looks gorgeous. Um, so what did you guys think? Um, seeing it the first time.
SPEAKER_02I I watched it on Shudder and it and it looked gorgeous, and that's what my number one comment is holy hell, is this movie well shot? Like, mad props to wait, where'd he go? Where'd he go? Damn it, I had it queued up and everything. Egon Werdin, the director of photography, who seems to be like most of the crew, a Russian, presumably. And uh, yeah, like I just oh my god, every shot, every shot he was telling the story with the camera movement, with the rack focus, just just so awesome. And um, just course.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, great, great use of the 235 frame, yeah, of like really building suspense and tension with that, where kind of you can see her on one side and see the killer on the other side, and just that tension of seeing them both in the frame at the same time, and that proximity, I think, really helped.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I there was like literally one moment where I was like unhappy with the framing, and that was when she was witnessing the murder. And I was like, why are we not getting an over-the-shoulder to put her in the space? And maybe they just literally didn't have her that day and they couldn't, but like that was the one time where I was like, wait, this is it's jarring. I I know she's reacting to it and we're seeing it, but I'm not seeing I'm not truly seeing her see it, and I want to, you know, but other than that, oh amazing, and the sound design close, you know, A plus for cinematography, solid A for the sound design, all the little moments, especially in the first half of the movie when she's running from the dudes. You hear them, you hear them in the space, like just fucking fantastic. So, yeah, I will say second half of the movie, the tone shifts, it almost becomes a slapstick comedy, but it doesn't, but it like looks like somebody thought it should be. And on the one hand, like it's awesome, they never once punched down and used her disability as a source of comedy, but like there were still a lot of moments where I'm like, wait, what am I supposed to laugh at that? Like, and and and the the director character who uh uh Evan Evan Richards who who plays Andy Clark, like he was just so whiny and and and like yeah, he was supposed to be self-centered, he was supposed to be a director, but at the same time it was like too much because it was like no dude, you'd you'd be freaking out here a little bit more. So so I I love the first half. The second half I cooled a bit. When you factor in the rather abrupt ending, I did feel a bit unsatisfied. I would absolutely recommend the movie, but it it it it went from looking to be like an absolute home run to probably just an infield double.
SPEAKER_03So um use baseball, which is completely appropriate. It's at least off the wall. All right, it's at least off the wall. Solid double, I think.
SPEAKER_02Maybe well again, I think because the first half was so good, you know. If the first half hadn't been as good, I probably wouldn't have been as bothered by the second half as much. Um but like all right, like a good example, like the whole, like the couple in the basement in the in the apartment underneath them when they're when they're fighting the thugs, and the and like it's like there's no other reason for that than comedy. And it's like, what are you doing? Put a comedy like what is that? Why is that there?
SPEAKER_03Like, so it's interesting you mentioned that, Dto, because in the commentary track, Anthony Waller, the director, mentions that he got challenged on that by some of the co-producers on that. About hey, he's like, you know, you maybe you shouldn't have as much humor here, you're kind of you know lessening the tension here. And his opinion was he thought that it helped the tension a little bit more to kind of give a little release to it. I would mostly agree with that, although I think he maybe went a little too far in the snapsticky part of it. I think maybe I did laugh during some of that stuff, but maybe pulling that back a little bit might have been you do you do one shot of the couple in the bed, and then at the end you have the guy come upstairs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that pays off nicely. Yeah, but like but four different shots of him smacking the ceiling and getting pissed off. And I was like, I don't know, maybe because I'm old now, I'm like, yeah, I kind of feel for this guy. That would be annoying. I also I would also like to sleep, you know, like so I don't know. Um what did you think, Ken?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what are your reactions, Ken? I also I also really enjoyed it. This is, I mean, really sweet spot of a movie for me. I love a good thriller. I love a good Hitchcockian thriller. I agree. I like the first 40 minutes, I think, the best. It's almost like it's it's almost like it's its own short film. Like it's so such a such a great such a great story right there. I love how they use the you know, whether it's locations or sets, it's so well. They use like every they use that set or that location so well. Especially that hallway that they keep so many scenes are shot in that hallway, which they you know make really great use of. Um I do think it gets a little a little slapsticky in the second part, which didn't bother me as much. I kind of liked the humor, uh, but I feel like plot-wise it gets really convoluted. Like I still don't know what's up with the discettes and uh why they why they were how you know how why they had to have a snuff film to kill the girlfriend who had the discette was a little lost on me, but I don't think it's I don't think you need to know. Like it's sort of your MacGuffin there, the discette. But you know, again to to echo what Deto said, I love the way it was shot. The sound design is great. I love that final chase down the hallway where she's got the key and the killer's right behind her, and it does this like it does this like dream. Yeah, the vertigo effect. And a couple, yeah, but it's like kind of does it in a new in a unique way because it like zooms out and then it's sort of normal and zooms, Dolly zooms, and it's normal, and it has this feeling of like a dream or a nightmare, uh, which I thought was so well done. I really liked apparently the lead actress didn't speak any English, and I thought I thought she was so good. You would never know. I mean, of course she doesn't speak, but her performance was just really great.
SPEAKER_02So I was gonna I was this was gonna be my big question. Yeah, is that why she's mute? Did they were they like oh she can't speak, so we're just gonna make her because like I feel like honestly, I felt like a mute witness and in Russia was too much. Like, if someone handed me the script, I'd be like, pick one. Either either you have a mute American in America, maybe you know, in a in a CD city, you know, and she can't convince people. Or we're in Russia and she just doesn't speak Russian. But like the those two things combined, I don't know. I I thought it was too much.
SPEAKER_00That didn't bother me so much, except that I was expecting more of a payoff that she was mute. I thought maybe somehow her her disability, for lack of a better word, would turn out to be a you know a strength somehow at the end. Uh which so there wasn't really a payoff there. I did like that there was a payoff that she was a special effects makeup artist. Yeah. That that was cool.
SPEAKER_02And I I like I like too that they didn't they didn't focus on the mutantist, like they didn't, they there was never an explanation as to why. Right. There certainly wasn't any implication that she was gonna find her voice at the last second, you know.
SPEAKER_04So like surprisingly I'm so glad they didn't do that.
SPEAKER_02Surprisingly woke in that respect for a 1990s movie. Yeah, I was just like, there's already a massive communication barrier, as evidenced when her sister and the director talked to the cops. Like, you just didn't you didn't need her to be mute, like it just was this extra layer, but plus, like, she functions so well in that society. She's got a robo voice thing, you know, like like any potential obstacle actually like wasn't much of an obstacle. So yeah, I thought that was a great gimmick too.
SPEAKER_03That that sequence with the robo voice, the TDD device.
SPEAKER_02That was cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the killers in the house kind of sequence.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it was funny because I remember at one point I was like, wait, why didn't she use that earlier? And I was like, Oh, yeah, no, she wasn't home before. Yeah, you know, I'm so used to cell phones when the phone is just ubiquitous. You know, and you're like, oh, wait, no, you physically had to be somewhere with your robo voice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess you could have found a way to make it I mean, it did the fact that she was mute did cause a lot of did, you know, get a lot of the plot going. You know, like she couldn't get out of the I'm sure you they could have found other ways if she was not mute to keep her trapped at the beginning in the studio.
SPEAKER_02You could have just made the security guard deaf instead of her being mute, like so she's yelling at the city.
SPEAKER_00Right, or it could be no phone, or the phone didn't work or something.
SPEAKER_02Or he's he's got a he's got big honking headphones on with his disc man that they that they bribed him with, you know. Like yeah, so I don't know, like yeah.
SPEAKER_03So to go back to your point to your question about the actress. So the actress is actually she's a talented Russian stage actress, actually. And if you look her up on IDB, she's got about 40 credits, all of which are Russian, except for this one, really. So she's mainly a Russian actress. And I also loved her face, like she had a great face for this particular part. She almost had like a silent movie face, I thought. Like she would have been great, and like, yeah, and and actually that was that was kind of her problem because she kept showing up late because she, as a stage actress, and apparently the director was saying this is common, is you know, obviously in Russia, particularly, stage acting is the supreme art. I mean, it's the birth of Stanislavsky and the method, right? So they take it very seriously. They look down on film for the most part, is what it is, and especially this film, because she thought it was kind of low brow and kind of not really very, very good. So she didn't really take it all that seriously, and yet she gives a great performance in it, um, which I thought was interesting. Would you like to guess who that role was offered to first? Someone, someone we would recognize? You may be able to guess. When Nona Rose So, yeah, someone you would recognize as someone who is an actress who's famous for not being able to speak and or does speak but is has a disability.
SPEAKER_00Oh, oh, uh Marley Matlin.
SPEAKER_03Late 80s and early 90s. Marley Matlin? You got it, yeah. They offered it to Marley Matlin, and she she turned it down. They don't they didn't know why, maybe she didn't like like the story or whatever, but he also said that he offered it to a number of actors, and some actors didn't want to come because at the time, and we'll get into the chaos of the early 90s in Russia, because it is it is a whole deal that we'll talk about. Because you remember the you know, the Soviet Union just just collapsed a couple years earlier, so it is not the greatest time to be in Russia. And there was a diphtheria epidemic. In Russia at the time. And so he explicitly heard from some actors who did not want to come because of the diphtheria epidemic. So that was not a problem. He actually offered the part of Karen, her sister, who was played by Faye Ripley in the movie, the British actress, to Elizabeth Hurley, which I thought was interesting. She liked the script, but she wanted to play the lead. And they had already cast Marina Sardina in that part. So they had to turn her down because she didn't want to play the other part, she wanted to play the lead. And honestly, I think that is probably for the best. I think I don't think this film would have been as good with Elizabeth Hurley in the lead. Not necessarily just because she's in the beginning of her career and she hasn't really done many films yet, and so just wouldn't necessarily have the craft to do it. But just also, she's so I mean Marina is very beautiful, obviously. She's movie beautiful, but Elizabeth Hurley is such you know a supermodel that I don't know if anyone would buy her as an effects artist, as opposed to just look at her, like you could make way more money on the other side of the camera if you're not being an effects artist. So I think kind of buying her as like a work-a-day film person, I don't know that that would have worked as well. I don't know what you guys think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think she looks more distracted.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she looks more uh Marina looks more like a normal, very beautiful, like you said, beautiful, but more like a normal person than Elizabeth Hurley would look. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like you absolutely believe that the cinematographer is hitting on her. Yeah. But you're not like, oh, that's clearly an actress.
SPEAKER_03Right, exactly. And to answer your other question, Dedo, about the location. So you are correct in one sense in that the initial instinct was not to do it in Russia. So Anthony Waller, the director, was mainly scouting Chicago, is where he wanted to do it. He also looked at Boston, but it was mainly Chicago. But in looking at it from a budget standpoint, his co-producers kind of convinced him that shooting in Russia would be half the price. So he's like, okay. So they went there purely for budget reasons, but also, you know, while I thought, you know, the extra the extra kind of fish out of water part of it would be interesting. And I agree, I I think that part is interesting. To me, I I could see your point, Deddo, that maybe it's a little one fish out of water too many, because she's already, you know, mute and and slightly hard of hearing, so is already kind of a fish out of water in everyday life. I kind of like that part of it, but it does kind of add this extra layer. Um, so including that one bit where they have to translate she's talking to someone and you have to translate it from sign language to English and then from English to Russian, which I thought was kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_02And and there's also like, I mean, this is an old personal thing, but like there's no thematic connection there.
SPEAKER_03Right. So like that's a good point. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, and I I don't know how I don't know in how you would thematically connect not being able to talk with a with a location, but there's this like it's just two random problems that they just have stuck together. And I and yeah, and I think you could, I mean, and maybe it would be cheesy, but you could almost argue that her inability to talk at all would make her a better communicator to the people who don't speak English. Who don't speak English, right? Yeah, because it's more than an interesting thing. They don't do that either. Then that would have worked for me, but then you're then you're making her her life easier, not harder, which is not how you make a good thriller. So yeah, I don't know. I I definitely would have had notes if I was handed the script. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Another interesting thing is that Marina had to learn American Sign Language, not Russian Sign Language, because those it is different, like Russian sign language is different from American Sign Language. So she had to learn American Sign Language as opposed to Russian, which I thought was kind of interesting. And also Anthony Waller said that he he he learned Russian relatively quickly because he was paying close attention when his his words are being translated, because everybody had their own translator. But he said all of his vocabulary was about like murder and film and wasn't particularly useful outside of the film.
SPEAKER_02So that's like the old the joke about uh just about about being a mystery writer and your internet search history is always like incrementated.
SPEAKER_03Right, exactly. The other thing about shooting in Russia is that the the first day of shooting was October 4th, 1993. This is also known as Black October, which is Anthony Waller says that on the morning of October 4th, he was awakened as Bor Boris Yeltsin's forces started bombarding the parliament building with tanks and and munitions in an attempt to stave off a coup. So they had to delay shooting by a week because the city was under complete assault. So uh so some of some of the kind of kind of bombed out kind of production design was sort of already there because of the the weak the fighting recently. And they said anytime they had to get around there was a curfew, they were always checked by military, sometimes like multiple times on the way to the studio. So it was like in total lockdown for most of the time they were there because it was not a very good time to shoot in Russia. In fact, Anthony Waller, about 10 years later, went back to Russia to shoot some other stuff, some other projects, and he said the difference was night and day. He's like, when they were there the first time, it was a nightmare. Later it got much more professional.
SPEAKER_04Because when they first got there, they had a nightmare again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, probably. They found so they were supposed to use all Russian equipment when they got there, but the the equipment was in such disrepair and so ancient that they couldn't use it. So they had to ship 72 crates of film equipment from Munich to Russia right before they started shooting, and that equipment got held up in customs in Russia and just sat there because they wanted sixty thousand dollars in cash to release it, even though they had a carnage, and uh they wound up paying five grand and a case and a crate of vodka to get it out, uh, which is such a stereotype, but I guess it worked. But but yeah, I've I've I've been lucky. I don't know how much you guys have shot in other countries, like with film equipment and video equipment, but I've I've done it. I've mostly had relatively good luck with this stuff because we use a thing called the Carn A, which if you don't know what Carn A is, it's basically just a list of the equipment that you have and is signed and notarized and certified saying this is what you can bring into the country and this is what you can bring back out temporarily, so it kind of speeds up the customs process. So I've mostly been lucky in that my shit hasn't been held up, but my boss before I joined my company that I'm at now, he did a gig in India, I think it was, and this absolutely happened to him. Like they completely confiscated all of his video equipment, and he had to pay a significant amount of money to get it out. So you never know when that's gonna go down.
SPEAKER_02I had the opposite experience when I was in in Prague during grad school, so we didn't import any equipment, we you know, we were using the equipment that the people there had, and the amount of equipment we were able to get for just peanuts. This was 2004. And and it's like so we roll up our first day of shooting, our short film, we're in a where it's a night shot, it's a it's a church plaza, and we're like, hey, what lights did you bring? And and our gaffer, who's like a full-blown professional, I mean, this guy is like, he's been around the block a few times, and he's like, brought all of them, and we're like, Can you can you light this church? And he's like, No problem. And he pulls out this massive light, and we're like, Oh my god, this is gonna be awesome. So then the the only the only obstacle was when it came time to edit uh the movie, they would like they didn't have a computer for us to use. And because they were still like kind of like film students should should edit on Steinbecks and stuff, and they were like, Yeah, we're no, we're not doing that. So they ended up they ended up giving me this this old Mac in a c literally in a closet, running running Final Cut Pro, and it is crashing so frequently. I set the autosave to every five seconds, and I literally would just like hit a button, auto save, hit a button, auto save, hit a button, crash, reopen the project, oh man, and just keep going. Thankfully it was a short film, but uh yeah, that was that was my foreign foreign experience. I have not ever played with uh carnas, so yeah, you know, but I do like carnet asada.
SPEAKER_03It is fun stuff, and apparently at the time this was the the the largest props and what is it, props and something else department. Let me see what he said. He said it was hang on, lost my notes there. It was the largest props and and grip department in the in the country at the time. So the craft of the people there were relatively you know solid, relatively good. It's just all the you know drama around it was always difficult. And in fact, the bit early on when they're shooting the film within a film, and all of a sudden the lights turn off, and the director Andy, he's like, Well, no, what the hell's going on now? He put that in the film because that happened. They would be shooting at 6 p.m. exactly, all the lights would go off, and they'd be like, Nope, you're done. And he's like, But I'm in the middle of a shot. Like, nope, that's it, you're done.
SPEAKER_00That's so funny because that felt to me like a real that felt to me like something that might have happened. It's a funny thing. It does feel real, doesn't it? Yeah, oh, I bet that is real. It absolutely was real based on reality.
SPEAKER_02I will say, speaking of all the Russian talent, the two bad guys, Oleg and I think I think the other guy is Igor. I'm not sure. Couldn't remember, yeah, I couldn't figure it out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think they're named in the movie, really. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, so the act the actors' names are Oleg and I'm not even gonna try to pronounce their last names, and Igor, but uh especially Oleg who played Larson, who played the DP. Like so he went from like kind of charismatic to menacing so well and so easily, like just like excellent, excellent acting. Like, and the other guy was just like, you know, like even in the very beginning where you like when he when he first shows up and he's and he's laughing and he hands he hands the other guy like a flask or something, and you're like, There's something wrong, there's something off with this guy. Yeah, it was just like those were those were also like great use of talent.
SPEAKER_00So I will say about them, and this is venturing into spoiler territory territory, but once they're gone, I miss them a little bit because they were such effective villains.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And had great, yeah, great faces, like Deto said. Yeah, actually, all the young cops, Young Kopsky, the guy who plays Larson, that's a different that's the police guy towards the end. Larson is the police guy, yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00I liked Oleg too.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I think the other guy's also Oleg, I think. The actor's name. Okay, but that guy, the camera guy, who yeah has that great look to him and is a really great villain, I think. Interesting story about him was he was on drugs all the time. And the director said he was completely uncontrollable because he was always on drugs and had this glassy-eyed look frequently, but he said that kind of worked for the character because he kind of looked more threatening than anything. So some of that's just not acting, he just kind of doesn't know where he is most of the time. So I thought that was kind of interesting. There is, do we want to talk about the the the one big cast member that we haven't mentioned who we should probably talk about? Yeah, sure. Yeah, we should talk about that. So this is officially Alec Guinness's line final film appearance, even though it was not shot that way. So, as you can imagine, you know, Alec Guinness turns up for like a minute or two, just a brief cameo, as the Reaper, who's the guy who's the ultimate bad guy in charge of this whole snuff film ring and pornography ring and bad guy stuff. So he's the guy that everybody is afraid of, and you know, he's meant he's sort of like Kaiser Sose fashion. He's mentioned, you know, in the movie earlier, and everyone's like, oh, the Reaper, the Reaper. So he shows up, and you're watching it, and you're like, Oh, that's cool. That's random, but that's cool. Why is Alec Guinness in this movie? I bet there's a story behind it, and sure enough, there was a story behind it. So uh Anthony Waller, the director, met Alec Guinness in 1985 in Hamburg, Germany, which is where Waller was living at the time. And Guinness was there to accept an award for a like a Shakespearean theater acting award. And he was talking with him, very gracious. And Waller just happened to ask him, he's like, Hey, would you mind appearing in a film that I'm making? Um, you know, it'd be great to have you. I would really like you, just we can shoot really quickly, it'd be just a little cameo. And he's like, sure. He was very gracious and very willing to help him out. Uh but as Rep said, you know, Guinness is booked for the next year and a half. You know, there's no way we can fit you in. You know, you're just a student, you know, we we can't really do that. And Waller just spontaneously goes, he goes, How about tomorrow morning? And Guinness says, sure, you know, if you can shoot me up before my plane leaves, yes, I'll I'll show up. So Waller promised this without having a script, without having a crew, without having equipment, and without having a location. So now, in less than 24 hours, he has to pull together an entire film shoot, plus write whatever lines he's gonna say, find a location and pull this all together to shoot Alec Guinness. And he managed to do all that, you know, getting in some some film school contacts and some you know commercial contacts he was working on. So he finally pulled it all together. They shot him in a parking garage, just a close-up, you know, in the parking garage. And then when he was done, you know, just two minutes worth of footage, a handful of takes. And then when they were done, the car that Alec Guinness is in in the movie, he drives him into the airport. In that car. Basically, yeah, basically, when he was done, because he just rented the car for the for the day for the shoot, he just drove him to the airport. He was like, cut, and then drives into the airport straight from the straight from that car. So that does well that's that's efficient.
SPEAKER_02That explains the ending a lot. Because when when Inspector Lassowski, you know, he just like he just like he just holds up the discette and he's like, I got the discette, and then he goes back inside the building. And yeah, like, wait a minute. Wait, why is the Reaper okay with that? And the in-movie explanation is not terribly satisfying, so that that makes a lot more sense. It's good to know people are pulling that shit even back then. Like, you yep, you're that stuff now, and it's like, you know, oh, we only had Joe Esteves for a day, so right, exactly. Yeah, every other shot of him from behind is a mop.
SPEAKER_03At least it's Alec Guinness doing that, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Although I did not recognize him at all. Like, not not surprising that it was his last shot. Yeah, you know, he didn't look great.
SPEAKER_00He still had the voice, the voice is still recognized.
SPEAKER_03He did. He did, and he did extend, so he had the one two shots, really, just the wide shot, the medium shot, and then the close-up. But then I'm sure you notice, like, to extend his screen time, he shows up twice, once when the the bad guys first kind of contact him, and then the second time at the very end, and you'll notice it's just the same footage flopped, right? So and he doesn't have any dialogue there. He just basically every frame that he wasn't saying anything, he used so that he can make it seem like it's a different scene. And one clean and tour, this is you know, clever filmmaking too. He knew that he may want to have a disal scene with him, so he gave him a walkie-talkie so that his voice would be slightly distorted, so he could get a sound alike to add any dialogue. And that's what he did. Actually, he hired uh there was like a British DJ actually who did a kind of like Alec Guinness impression over the over the radio to kind of give him a little extra dialogue. Um, and it's also the same actor who dubbed that same DJ dubbed Larson, the Russian guy, his English lines were dubbed by him. So I thought that was a pretty clever way of kind of extending Alec Guinness's screen time. The other thing about him being one one second, Ken. The other thing about him being in it, and and the reason why he's billed in the credits as the mystery guest star. You'll notice it doesn't say it says the Reaper, and it doesn't say Alec Guinness, it says mystery guest star in the credits. He said that he could be in the film, but he could not be billed. He didn't want to be billed at all. And he also could not use Alec Guinness in any marketing. Like you couldn't put Alec Guinness's name above the title or like say, you know, Alec Guinness is in this film. He couldn't use him for marketing purposes. So that's kind of why it's billed that way and the marketing's done that way. Go ahead, Ken.
SPEAKER_00It kind of takes the kind of takes away the point of having him in the film in some ways, you know, because he doesn't do much. So you would think they would get some marketing out of it. Uh so was he had he passed away before the movie was made?
SPEAKER_03He passed away in 99 is when he passed away. And I and I know that for a fact because I was working in the video store at the time, and I remember just all of our Alec Guinness films being gone because everyone, as soon as he passed away, everyone came in to rent all of his films. Yeah. And uh so yeah, so this he was shot. This was shot in 1985, that footage. Okay, and the film was not started until 93. So eight and a half years after that footage was shot, it was used in the film.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure he I'm sure he got some funding by saying about Alec Guinness in in the can.
SPEAKER_03It did, yeah, it did help, certainly. Yeah, and he also said it was interesting, like he was a student, so he's like he had a moment to himself where he was like, Okay, this is the first shot of my first feature film, and it's a close-up of Alec Guinness. And he's like, Yeah, that'll not bad. That's a pretty that's a pretty good, it's all downhill from there, I guess, really.
SPEAKER_02You know, judging judging by his credits, I'd say it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's he's worked steadily, but he hasn't, I think, reached the same heights as Mute Witness, I think. One thing that I want to talk about is I want to know what your guys think about the opening, because the opening it starts with the a film within a film, right? The film that they're shooting, and it's presented as you know, initially you think it's real, and then slowly it you realize it doesn't. I don't know what you guys think. I'm not a huge fan of that kind of thing. I think it's been done to death. It kind of starts the same way blowout starts, and I kind of like the opening of blowout, but uh and I think he does it in a good way, I think, in a in a different kind of way, because even he in the commentary track said he says one thing he says in the commentary track, he says, quote, I hate film into film openings. So he's actually opening his film in a way that he doesn't really like. So what I think is clever about it is rather than having like one sudden shot where it's obvious reveal that it's a film within a film, he kind of slowly reveals that it's a film within a film, like there's little hints of it. And he's even said that like he's when he's shown it to people, he's like different people cotton on at different points to realize that it's a film within a film. I kind of like that part of it, so I kind of give, even though I don't like those openings typically, I kind of give it a pass for that. Uh I'm not sure what you guys thought of the opening and if it drew you in or not.
SPEAKER_00I agree with that because I randomly happened to watch the the beginning of Blowout again uh over the weekend because it just happened to be on Amazon Prime, and so I was I I noticed right away with this with Mute Witness that it was similar. But I do like, like, for one thing, the opening to blowout is so much sleazy. But this is I really I did I noticed how subtly I like the subtle way they reveal. It wasn't like a big, you know, blowout has a big moment where suddenly you're like you realize we're watching a film. And I think it was really well done. This really sets Mute Witness sets itself apart by slowly revealing through the credits that okay, we're we're actually watching a film being made. So I agree, I like that I like how that was done.
SPEAKER_02It was an awesome credit sequence. Yeah, yeah. I remember I was like, this is such a great way to do the credits. I it was funny, I was so I had no problem with it, but I I think it was the moment the killer turns off the radio. For some reason I said, Oh, this is a movie within a movie. And maybe it was just because I knew just enough about the plot that I knew that this couldn't be the real plot. But there was something subtle that queued me in. Um but that being said, loved the killer's outfit. Uh the nurse, like the the the nurse, and the and and I was like, did like did the people from Silent Hill see this and like make a whole video game based on it? Like that was such a cool killer look.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was actually a little dress to kill, I thought. Yeah, yeah, that's the way dress to kill ends with he escapes dressed as a nurse. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02And then it was funny because it was like I was like, okay, I'm pretty sure this is this is a movie within a movie, and then the killer goes and he steps back, and then someone like Like hands them a cigarette or something, and you're like, and then I was like, Oh, well, that could be. They did say there were two escapees, right? And then the third hand comes in, and I was like, Alright, I don't know. That was cool. I like that. I didn't think it was funny the way everyone was laughing at her performance. Because like it just it was like it wasn't that funny to me. Like it was like it was a little over the top, but it was like, but they were just letting it roll. And so that was a little incongruous, but like but also I feel like that was like more of an in-joke kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00I did wonder why he didn't call cut. If he wasn't we didn't like the take, why didn't he call cut?
SPEAKER_02Man, you're you're using 35 millimeter here. You're money on this. Right.
SPEAKER_00But then you realize the director is an idiot, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I guess back then you did roll because you're like, well, I might use I might use something in here. Yeah. Because you know, we only have Alec Guinness for two minutes.
SPEAKER_00So I did love how how annoyed uh Billy gets when you know she's trashing she's trashing the set, and you can tell like, oh, she's go she's really she's going beyond what was planned. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I I I the opening did win me over after, like, uh, because I you know, even knowing the premise of the film and everything, I'm like, even from the beginning, like, okay, this is a movie in the movie, probably. Yeah, and then when it's revealed, I'm like, okay, that was a clever way to do it. I I like the the shots of the guys laughing because it some people may think that oh my god, that's so good. They're they're laughing at that woman being murdered, which I thought was kind of an interesting way to do it. And then you kind of reveal further that it's um, you know, a movie being shot. Um, but I think I think like from the opening all the way that through the inciting incident all the way through the end of that for that first act, and and Ken, you mentioned it would be like a great short film. I think it's to me to me, it's one of the best openings to a suspense thriller that I've seen. Like it's just so like you said, all the things you said, Detto, and the craft of it and the way it's shot, the way it's edited, the way it's put together. Like, I just think it's it hooks you so well that like even if you are maybe a little let down by the ending, I I kind of like the ending, but I get where you're coming from, Detto. But like you just follow this movie wherever it goes because it's the opening is so well done and it sets you up and hooks you in so well that you're just willing to go wherever it takes you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think anyway. I certainly wasn't tempted to turn it off. It just and you know, honestly the ending just feels like they ran out of money, and like if we had gotten an epilogue, it is a kind of Monty Python ending. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Which you know, show up and that's it.
SPEAKER_02If this was a comedy, fine, but it's not supposed to be a comedy, so yeah. But you know, that's a it's a minor a minor demerit.
SPEAKER_00One thing I liked, just to uh add one one more thing, is that in my mind I thought from what I little I knew about the movie before, I thought she was more of a victim, and I liked how you know resourceful she was as a character and you know defending herself. Like she never was a victim throughout the movie, really.
SPEAKER_03Right, she's very proactive, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and she does she doesn't do kind of movie heroine stupid stuff, like she kind of makes the decisions that someone in that situation probably would make. Yeah, and and I think that that's really well done. I also really like one thing about the second half of the movie, and I would agree, like the the set piece, the suspense sets pieces in the first half of the movie, or maybe even the first two-thirds of her so are so well crafted, like so very hitchcocky, and that it does kind of like as the plot kind of closes in and kind of builds more to a climax, the set pieces do get a little more diffused and it starts to focus a little more on the plot than it did before, and the plot's not all that interesting. But what I like about the drama of the second half is so we have this character named Larson, who didn't mention before is played by Oleg, whose last name I'm not gonna butcher again, um, who is a very well-respected Russian actor, and he has this kind of interesting face to me. Like he shows up at a point in the movie, he's he's introduced as a guy who's a policeman who's trying to uh track down the Reaper and these people who make these snuff films, and he has this sort of like face that's a little different and seems a little more trustworthy to me. Um, but then it slowly starts to reveal that maybe he's actually working with the Reaper, and he's kind of like the Reaper's inside man in the police to find out, you know, keep tabs on what's happening and he's actually working with him. So there's this great moment in the car when he shows up and kind of sort of rescues Billy, and she's starts to trust him, and then you know, she kind of gets a sense that oh, he's asking too much about this discette. He seems really interested in it. Maybe he's not trustworthy. So I really like that scene in the car where she's like she doesn't know who to trust. Can she trust her crew? Can she trust this man she just met who may or may not be a police officer? I thought that was really well done. And and her reactions, you know, her facial expressions and the way that's all played out, and leading all the way up to the ending, to the climax. I really thought that that was handled pretty well. So while maybe the tension and the suspense maybe slackens a little bit, I think the drama around her gets a little ranks up, you know, ratches up a little bit enough for me to kind of redeem the second half of the movie.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I got I got a real John Renault vibe from that dude.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, yeah, like that scene in the car where she like she jumps out of the car, then she jumps back in the car, and she outsmarts him by handcuffing him. That stuff was all great, but then it was also marred by him kind of like goofily checking her out as she puts her clothes on, and like it's just like you know, it's just it's just real inconsistent moments where you're like, wait, is this a sex comedy? Is he just like you saw his first movie? Like, because that's the face he's making, you know. So yeah, I mean, but yeah, no, no, it was uh honestly, I mean, it's well even the second half is well written, but yeah, you know, it's it's just there's just some goofy moments here, just like where did this come from?
SPEAKER_03And uh and then the the climax, which I think is is pretty well done, you know, getting the spoilers essentially. And what did you guys think of? So there's a bit where you know she's kind of surrounded, the bad guys are there, and Larson, the the police person who she thought who she's again not sure about, and seems like he may be with the bad guys. Um he actually shoots her in a big spectacular, you know, blood packets, you know, kind of blowing up in her body, and she falls over dead, and her friends, her sister and and the director think she's dead, and then the bad guys, you know, pull away. And then it turns out she actually is not dead. Um, she's actually alive, and she used her, as as Ken said, used her special effects makeup knowledge to put those blood packs on her, and and Larson fired blanks to make it look like she was dead, so the bad guys would would leave her alone, which I think is really well done. And the shot that I love is the reveal of that she's alive. So she, you know, she dies spectacular, quote unquote dies spectacularly, and uh her sister is distraught and everyone's freaking out, and then the bad guys have left, and she's kind of by herself on the ground, and her sister's kind of walking over to her, like just looking at her dead body. And there's a close-up of her face, and she opens one eye and smiles, and she's looking straight at the camera. And I just really liked that directorial choice of just like essentially, you know, the actress or Billy just kind of saying, Hey guys, I'm back. Just kind of like, No, I'm not dead. I'm not dead. Yeah, I just kind of liked that reveal that that made me laugh. And then, of course, she gets up and she's you know, the all is resolved and everything is is hunky-dory. Uh, and then I liked there, they're standing around, um, and there's a moment of tension where Larson is like, you know, the Reaper is still out there or whatever, and there's a moment of tension, and then Andy the director accidentally hits the button on the remote and and blood pack goes off. And I kind of the first time I saw that, I actually jumped a little bit. I was like, oh my god. Because at first you're like, you know, you the the the movie's not dark enough necessarily that you think that she would they would kill the protagonist. So I never really thought that she was gonna die, but then when they did that, I'm like, holy shit, they really did it. Like, she really is gonna die. And then it turns out it's just a joke because he accidentally pushed the button to let one more uh squib go off. So I thought that was really clever too. I really like that.
SPEAKER_02So I yeah, I agree with all that. I did kind of I did kind of be like, oh wait, you know, just as she's getting shot, I was like, oh wait, this is gonna be fake. But I do think it it's a missed opportunity, and again, understandable because Alec Guinness is you know, yada yada yada, he's playing the Reaper. But there there is a line where they're like the Reaper wants another snuff film, he wants to see her die. So like it would have been so cool if like they were like, You're gonna get the bloodiest death, you you know, and he's like and he's so enamored of it that they get the drop on him or something. Yeah, they had to do this very awkward thing where you know in Inspector Kluskowski uh, I got the discount and then he just like disappears, and they're all like, Cool, we're done here, drive away. Like definitely for some filmmaker problems there, like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It does feel like an abrupt uh wrap-up, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like I do somewhat related. I like the other fake out earlier when the one of the villains goes and stabs the director.
SPEAKER_02That was great.
SPEAKER_00And that took at that time in the film, I like, oh, maybe he might really be dead. So I thought that was that was well done. I was disappointed he wasn't dead.
SPEAKER_02It was annoying.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so so to so to set that up for for an audience that hasn't seen it, so at the end of the kind of first act after she's witnessed this this murder, and she's trying, she brings the police to the studio because she's trying to convince them that it was real. Um, and actually the the premise of the movie kind of what's interesting, kind of turns on the fact that as an effects person, she can recognize when it's real and when it's not, between the craft of it and also just the the reaction on their face. Like she knows when it's real and when it's not, and she's trying to say it was real. But the bad guys who are there are trying to convince the police that no, it's not real, it was just uh a fake, a fake effect. So at one point, you know, Igor, one of the guys, grabs a knife and stabs the hell out of the director super violently, like this blood spurting, and it's just stabbing really hard. And it's done so violently, and so like like there is a moment where you're like, Yeah, is he really killing him? And maybe and and to go further, like maybe there are the police like in on this whole ring, and like ever so basically everybody in the room is in on it except for the director, Billy, and her sister, and that's it, and now it's really gonna close in around them. But then it's revealed that no, it was just a fake knife, it was just super bloody and super graphic, which I've cleverly shot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was especially because like they're all it was another great example of the cinematography being amazing, because like they're all huddled around and the one dude kind of sneaks off and like gets the knife, but it's all in shot. Yeah, but it's totally plausible that they wouldn't notice him doing that.
SPEAKER_00And you sort of see it from Billy's point of view, and she's trying to get their attention because she can't speak, she can't yell. So, yeah, it was yeah, very well shot.
SPEAKER_02So I will say, not to be hypercritical, but too late. There there is there is like a pretty major plot hole during that whole scene, because like never once are they like cool, just let us talk to the actress. Like the whole time they're like, Right, no, it's fake in this movie. We're not we don't not kill her. Like the cops absolutely would be like, We need to talk to the actress.
SPEAKER_00I also wonder too why she didn't send them to the body r first thing.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_00And then how did they sneak the body out?
SPEAKER_02I think they I think that's actually covered in the movie because like she's h she hides under the under the bags, and then she sneaks, she gets out of there a little bit, and then she hears a noise because dude comes back and he takes the body bags.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Okay, that's the way that's when I tell you, I guess I just finally discover her. I was didn't understand I I missed that. Yeah, so they do have to cover that.
SPEAKER_02They move the body.
SPEAKER_00Okay. But you still would have th would think she doesn't know that, so why isn't she right? Right, right. First thing the body's in the the body's in the elevator shaft.
SPEAKER_02But it's in the floor of the elevator, because these dudes are lazy. Also, that's uh I guess they make really good trash bags in Russia because like those like you drop that thing down a few stories and it doesn't just like explode.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, indeed. And then the the very I also like the little little tag kind of at the end with the car exploding, where the the kind of the poma-like push-in on the the bad guy in the back in the back seat. So so every time you know someone's dying, the he the director Waller does this cool like the pomal-like thing, Brian Da Palma thing, where he put punches in like three shots getting closer and closer to the victim's face with this like Bernard Herman-like, you know, screech on the soundtrack to show that it's real. Like it's it's not a fake killing, it's a real killing, and which is a really great kind of filmmaking grammar to show you every time I do this, it's a real thing. And then he kind of reprises that at the very end, because like they've uh the Larson, the Russian guy, gets into a car and he's gonna drive them to the police station to you know arrest them and everything. Uh so he's got the two bad guys in the back, and then all of a sudden the bad guy in the back like turns to the window and turns to Billy, and and he does Waller does that thing where he like zoom, you know, the quick cuts into him and the soundtrack saying he really knows he's gonna die. And that's what clues Billy into the fact that oh no, that car's gonna explode because this person knows he's gonna die and he knows it's gonna rig. And then she has to signal Larson to get out of the car, which again she's mute, so she can't, you know, do it. She tries to to warn him, and then he finally, at the last minute, he jumps out of the car and the car explodes, and the bad guys are vanquished.
SPEAKER_02Still might be dead. We're not like he he jumps out, but he still gets blown up and then he's lying down.
SPEAKER_03Well, no, I think he's he's he he kind of like it almost looks like there's wire work there, right? When he kind of like jumps out of the car and kind of like floats out of the car essentially, like really gets stunt stunt double is on fire. He is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But then it cuts to cuts to the actor, and he's like, hey.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's he's alive. He's definitely alive. Yeah, he's saying he's okay.
SPEAKER_02So I don't know. Yeah, it's like he just sits up and he smiles anyway. I must have I must have like glanced away for a second.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like it's like it's very it's very quick, Detto. It's like the last shot right before they cut the credits. Okay, so you could have easily missed it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that's the thing though. So it's like, okay, so if he actually survived, where's the discette? Is it in his jacket? Then it's probably still preserved too. I assumed he was dead and the discette was toast. So is it a hopeful ending? Is it a sad is it a hopeful, right? Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Hopefully, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We need uh we need we need mute witness to mute harder.
SPEAKER_03Although he did say Waller did say on the commentary track there is a remake being planned. I'm not sure why, but yeah, because not sure what you do with the remake, yeah, but yeah, maybe. But um, but okay, any any other thoughts or comments about anything in the movie or how it affected you at all.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I would just simply say that like watch this one at least on a television sized screen. Do not watch this on your laptop, do not watch this one on your iPad or your phone. Like, it's not a blockbuster, but you do want to give the cinematography room to breathe. Yes, absolutely watch it. At least watch it on a s on a television.
SPEAKER_00I also watched it on shutter and I thought it looked great on shutter, whatever, whatever, whatever version they're using there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and thank God we are in the widescreen world because as you can imagine, I first saw this film on V this movie is butchered on Pan and Scan VHS. Like, if you can imagine, how would you even do that? Because again, the 235 frame is used so well to to set up the tension and suspense that a pan and scan VH just destroys it. Oh, it destroys it.
SPEAKER_02I had one other one other thought since we're back on that. So I I did not have subtitles turned on for the movie at all. So I took that to mean though that they're the all the Russian is not subtitled. Correct. Right? That's that's really cool. That's really cool. Like that puts you so firmly in the world, and I think that's why I was like, she doesn't need to be mute, also. We're just none of us know what is going on. None of us know what's going on.
SPEAKER_03Like, but yeah, I thought that was such a great directorial choice to not have any Russian subtitles. So every time they're speaking Russian, it's either translated so you don't need them, or you just have to go by their body language and by what they're saying, which most of the time you can kind of tell. So right.
SPEAKER_02There were one or two moments where someone would switch into English for a very important line, and you were like, Okay, that was that was clearly a producer note. Yeah, like, but but overall, I really liked, I really liked that. I had no idea what there is.
SPEAKER_03So let's budget. So now, yeah, so now we gotta do our now. It's game time. So first game, the budget game, which I have a specific number, and so you've had some hints along the way. You know that the budget doubled, you know that at least five thousand dollars in a creative vodka was spent. So do you guys want to venture a guess? I'll give you one other hint too. I don't know how helpful this would be, but the movie was co-financed by Waller himself after saving up over 10 years of doing commercial gigs. So he saved some money over 10 years to put up uh some of the money. So there you go. And remember, it is you know, it is 35mm film, so it is the the film era. So, Dead O do you want to uh you have a very pensive look on your face there. You can really you're really really considering all the angles here.
SPEAKER_02It's funny because I was like, I was I was here, and then you're like Waller co-financed it, and I went down. You're like, by being a commercial director, and I was like, Oh, okay, we're back up again. You made good money doing that back then, and now too, actually. So I am going to say I'm gonna say 10 mil. Okay. I think I think uh yeah, it was the 90s, so we're in everything costs more. Yeah, we're not in micro budget filmmaking yet. Um 35 millimeter is expensive.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_02But it was shot in Russia. It is a Russian crew. A lot of the casting crew are Russian, so that's gonna take it down. But then you had things like the fact that they were like, oh, we'll just we'll just order an entire movie's worth of equipment from from Germany, like tells me that there was at least some real money behind this. Um so my guess is my guess is it was gonna cost 20 mil in America. They got it down to five mil, it doubled to 10. Okay. So we're going with 10 mil, but I can tell I can tell by your voice that I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_03So Ken, do you wanna I'm not gonna say either way. Ken, did you wanna give it a give it a go?
SPEAKER_00I think ten mil is too high.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna uh prices write it and go nine no nine point nine, no, no. One dollar, one dollar. Right, right. No, I think I'm gonna go five million. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Solid logic to it all the way. The final number was two million dollars. So it was budgeted at one for Russia, and then it doubled to two. Um pretty pretty solid logic. But and also while they're on the commentary track says that there was some issue with paying the crew, which was that in talking to the crew, he found that they were being dramatically underpaid, but he was being overcharged for what he was giving them. So somebody was taking quite a bit off the top, taking the money and saying, Oh, yeah, the crew will cost this much. He paid that, and then someone was keeping a good portion of that and giving the rest to the crew and underpaying them. So that was a whole other issue that they had to deal with. Okay, solid budget game, I think. Then we come to the other fun game that we have, which is the walking awards. To to recap what the walking awards are, which is that we take either lines that an actor puts ordinary lines that an actor puts a dramatic walk-in-like spin on them, or just really lines that we really like that Christopher Walk under really knock out of the park. Now, this being a largely visual Hitchcockan thriller, plus a main character who doesn't speak, there is pretty slim pickings in terms of walking awards. Um, because there is, you know, enough dialogue, but there the dialogue is largely functional in this movie. There's not a whole lot of like you know great lines that are taken away so do you guys want me to start with the walking awards? Do you guys have some some picked out at all?
SPEAKER_02I I don't have specific lines, so I'm I'll take your silence as meaning no. I'm I'm tweaking I'm tweaking my my nominee for Instagram. Of it lines, I want these are the two roles I would rather I would replace the actors with Walken. So either interesting, either director Andy, because he was so annoying, it would have been so much better to have Christopher Walken in there so he could say things like, What do you mean we can't shoot anymore? The lights the lights go dark at six o'clock, you know? Um, or or Ole uh or Larson, Detective Larson. He, you know, walk in as Detective Larson would have been great. Yeah, you know, yeah, then you'd really wouldn't know where to trust him.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I am undercover for this snuff film white trafficking, sex market. Have you heard of the Reaper? Yeah, so specific lines, not so much, but that's if I could go back in time, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I would Christopher Walken be like in American Sign Language? Would you be able to get his walk in very cadence from expressive?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that I I I no way can imagine that. So indeed.
SPEAKER_00Ken, do you have any candidates? Uh I had a couple. I had a couple. So one was Igor, and he says Igore. Igor. He says, We try make blood much big. I kind of like that one. That's my first one. I haven't okay. Yes, we make tests for you. We make blood much big. Uh I liked when the sister says, Because you're a wuss. I like that line. And then I liked I like the robot. Hello, this is this is Billy Hughes speaking. Oh, that would have been amazing. Hello, this is Billy Hughes speaking. It would have been good if it was walking.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, that's hilarious, Ken. Oh, I love that. So, yeah, so she has like a TDD, like a computer that speaks lines for her into the phone. So she she has a little mouse, so she selects, she can either type what to say or she has pre-selected, you know, phrases that she can select. And it's a robot, it's a robot voice. But having having it, hello, this is Billy. Hello. Can't come to the phone. That would be pretty great.
SPEAKER_02If you're patient, I will speak to you. Um side note. So I remember as a as a teen going to I think the Boston Science Museum, and they had one of those, and it was like you could type in whatever you wanted, and of course, if you tried to type a swear, it wouldn't let you do it, and it would do that, and it would do that voice. And it and it's just funny to think like that was considered so cutting edge. Um, because it wasn't pre-recorded, it was like generating the sounds, and it sounded horrible, but it was like the first just like computer generated speech, and it's just like such a great example of stuff we we take it, we take for granted now, where we're just like, Oh yeah, we have that all over the place, and it sounds mostly normal, um, you know, and back then that was like just cutting edge. That was so yeah.
SPEAKER_03I have one which is when he's when Andy the so they they have the what they think is the actual snuff film, so like they say, Well, we'll look at the film and we'll see if this is true. And it turns out the bad guys give them the wrong film, they give them the film from the opening, you know, the film within the film, the the bad slasher version. And so at one point, Andy the director finds out that they've seen the film and it and it and it's only the opening of the film, it's not the snuff film. So he's kind of breathes a sigh of relief, and he tells he tells his the sister, he says, There's nothing to worry about. The film's the biggest piece of shit he's ever seen. Which I thought was pretty funny. Yeah, and so there's the moment where he realizes, oh great, it's it's not, but it's it's just a crappy movie. Then he slowly realizes, Oh, wait, that's my movie, it's a piece of crap. Which I thought was very funny. And there's also I'll give it's an ordinary line, but I think uh Detto, if you can indulge me and do one as walk-in. They call him the reaper. Larson says that in a very kind of sober, dramatic tone, but I think Walken could do a much better spin on that. I think. What do you think, Detto?
SPEAKER_02I I actually I gotta say, I feel like my my walk-in game is really off today. I'll I will try. Well, what's do you remember the whole line though, where it's like they call him the reaper because if you see his face, you you die?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because yeah, the when you see his face, the last thing you see before you die.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So all right, let's see here. They call him the Reaper because if you see his face, you die.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we were correct.
SPEAKER_03That would definitely be better is walking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Although I do, I do like I do like the idea of directory Andy being walking. That would have been that would have been kind of funny too. That would be pretty great. I'm making my famous chili and Russian for some reason. Right. Yeah. And I was like, did he bring his own spices? He has a whole like grandma spice rack that he's in.
SPEAKER_03He's got a whole thing in there.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, how long have they been working on this movie? He has moved into this place.
SPEAKER_03Oh, um, a couple of notes, Anthony Waller actually went to film school in Munich with Nick Park, who of Ardman Animation and Wallace and Gromit fame, which I thought was interesting, and also with Roger Christian of Battlefield Earth fame. Oh, so there you go.
SPEAKER_02Alright, never mind.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, actually, Roger Christian was you know, is pretty pretty great as in terms of like an art director and set decorator, but not so much as a director. Because he worked on Star Wars and Alien in that capacity, but directed Battlefield Earth. So and one last thing, the the there was another movie shooting in Russia at the time. Uh only one other movie was shooting there because of the conditions and the cheapness. Do you want to hazard a guess as to what the other movie it was an American film shooting in in Moscow at the same time?
SPEAKER_02Hunt for Red October.
SPEAKER_03No, that was 19, that was 89, 90 when that was 93. 93? 93 is when it was shot, yeah. Okay. And into 90, into 94, I think. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Goldeneye?
SPEAKER_03It is it is a franchise entry, a franchise film. Oh, Mission Impossible? No. Oh. Not that big. Okay. Okay. Okay. So think think of a franchise, a cheap franchise that would shoot in Moscow to save money because they are so incredibly cheap, and there's been diminishing returns of this franchise from the 80s into the 90s. It is actually a return. They hadn't done one for a while. It's the seventh entry in this franchise, as a matter of fact.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we are failing. This is why we this is why we only watch obscure movies.
SPEAKER_03It is largely a forgotten so franchise. It is a comedy franchise, a low brow comedy franchise.
SPEAKER_02Revenge of the nerds seven, nerds go to Russia.
SPEAKER_03You're not far, Dead. Yes, you are correct, Ditto. You got it. Police Academy 7, Mission to Moscow was filming at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Pretty sure I've seen the movie.
SPEAKER_03I've seen all the police academies on Hobby Mo. So yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02Well, what what pedigree?
SPEAKER_03That's right. At least it's better than Mission to Moscow. Give it that. That's right.
SPEAKER_02Is it? I think we need to watch Mission to Moscow.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, maybe maybe that'll be Ken's selection next is Police Academy 7. I know. Stay tuned.
SPEAKER_02Did Steve Gutenberg ever come back for any of those?
SPEAKER_03No, he did not. He was done after four. So it's an object problem. R.I.P.
SPEAKER_02Mahoney.
SPEAKER_03In teed. Okay, so that's Mute Witness. We're all giving it thumbs up. And I would go on to say I I I love this film. I think it's a really underrated movie. It's a film that really needs to be kind of in the classic thriller, you know, like, you know, in the Hitchcockian sort of canon. You know, I think the way DePama movies are always kind of built up is like all ultimate Hitchcock things. I think this is better than most of De Pama's movies in terms of how it's executed. Certainly not up its own, certainly not up its own ass like the Pama movies are. I just and I think that first, like I said, what we talked about, that first act is as great a first act, you know, that a thriller can have. I think it's really like if you're right, if you're a film student, you know, studying thrillers or writing a film, a thriller script, you could do worse than to study witnesses first act into how to set up your movie and how to you know craft it and and really make it go and really draw you in. So yeah, it's it's a it's pretty widely available. As I said, it is available for physical media people. The Aero Films 4K and Blu-ray, I highly recommend. It's a great transfer, it looks gorgeous. And as Ken and Detto said, it's available on Shutter and all of your digital platforms for rental. We definitely recommend you track it down because you will not be disappointed. Even if you're not a horror aficionado or suspensive aficionado, I think it's it's well done enough that you would still, I think, enjoy it. So an unequivocal recommendation from No Really Trust Us. So that's Mute Witness. Go out there and watch it. You know, stop listening and go watch it. That's all for now. And Deto and Ken, say goodbye to the people.
unknownBye.
SPEAKER_03Bye, people. We will see you next time on No Really Trust Us.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for listening. If you've got a movie that you love and you think more people should know about, drop us online at no really trust us at gmail.com or on Instagram at No Really Trust Us. Don't forget to rate and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.