'Timer'

Join us for another timely episode of No Really Trust Us as we talk about Timer! Listen to the passionate debate about rom coms, age appropriate relationships, and how many beers Detto had before the show.

Produced and Hosted by Ken Cornwell, Matt McNevin, and John Benedetto.

Edited by John Benedetto.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

No really my daughter.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Is she a prostitute?

SPEAKER_03 0:13

The eyes of a dying rap can change a man.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

We try to make blood much big.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Happy birthday, monkey spaker. No really trust us.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Uh hope you enjoyed the show. All right. Welcome everybody to No Really Trust Us. We're the podcast about B movies, independent films, trashy flicks that you probably haven't heard of, but you really should watch because we're recommending them. As always, I'm here with Matt McNevin, aka the professor. Hello, Professor. Hello, Ken.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Great to be here. I'm Matt McNevin. I'm a video producer and adjunct professor of screenwriting and part-time filmmaker and all that stuff. Uh, and with us as well is Dedo. Say hi to the people, Dedo.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Hello, people. I'm Dead O. I was at a Birthday Happy Hour before this. I'm a few beers in. So apologies for And that's different how? Exactly. Um, like one beer in. Like I'm gonna be extra inappropriate.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

It depends on the movie. Sometimes it's better to be a few beers in for something too.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Yeah. No, yeah. And and actually, you know, that that's a great segue. This movie does not require a lot of beers. I would actually recommend a delightful Pinot Grigio to go with. Yeah. Um but we but we can get into that. Yes. So yeah. Ken, tell us about our movie tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

So tonight we are talking about Timer from 2009. It is written, directed by Jack Schaefer. This is actually her only the only movie she directed. She wrote a bunch of others, including The Hustle. She did an uncredited draft of Captain Marvel. Uh, she did an early version of Black Widow, and she also created the shows Wandavision and Agatha All Along. Yeah, she's all over Marvel now. She's yeah, yeah, big into Marvel. And I would argue WandaVision is probably the best of the Marvel shows. Old statement.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Debatable, but I think I would I would go there. Compared to what, Dead of Secret Invasion? I don't think it's that bold a statement.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Uh all right. I I did not mean for this to be Marvel debate. I would say Loki is probably the only contender for Loki is good as it's pretty good. I had an unusual affinity for Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I thought that was a extremely underrated, interesting, action-y, just like it was like an easies action.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yeah, good buddies show kind of kind of it was it was underrated.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

The Hawkeye show was actually pretty good too. But, anyways, this is not a podcast about Marvel movies.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

No, hey, that's a brilliant idea, Deddo. Oh, yeah, no one's doing that. We should have a podcast that talks about Marvel movies.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Let's talk about whether or not Superman can beat the whole.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

We're gonna be groundbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Can we? Can we please? Uh yeah. So back to timer. Yeah. Timer is a a little bit of a uh uh a segue for us because it's a romantic comedy and it's with a little bit of a sci-fi fantasy twist, you might say. And so the synopsis is from IMDB when an implant when implanted in a person's wrist, a timer counts down to the day the wearer the rare wearer the wearer finds true love. And as a review said, because science, but Uno Una, who is the star of the movie, faces the rare dilemma of a blank timer. Her soulmate, whoever and wherever he is, has yet to have a timer plant implanted. Staring down the barrel of 30 and tired of waiting for her would-be life partner, Una breaks her own rules and gravitates to Mikey, a charming and inappropriately young supermarket clerk with a countdown of four months. So timer stars Emma Caulfield, probably best known for Buffy. And then it also has Joe Beth Williams from Poltergeist. Always good to see Joe Beth as a mother. Yeah, and she she's another person who feels like should have had another actor who should have had a bigger career, I think.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Other characters are Una's best friend and stepsister, Steph. Uh, Mikey, who is the young, the young grocery store clerk, and Dan, who is a gentleman that Steph starts to maybe fall for. And then there's matchmaker Patty, who has some funny scenes working in the timer store.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I love that actress, by the way. We'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

She's very funny. Yeah, she's very good. Uh, so I guess I'll start with you, Professor. What did you think overall?

SPEAKER_02 4:50

I liked it a lot. I liked it. It's been a long time since I've seen it. I've only prior to this, I've only seen it once. And this is another one of those. Like, there are some movies that just live in my head as box art because of my video store days. And I'm actually wearing my old Atomic Video shirt here. Nice. And I just remember this box art because it's very, it's very you see it on IMDb. It's just very spare, just white with Emma Caulfield on it. It has the timer corporate logo on there with and the M is red with two people, like two look like logo people holding hands. So that always just stuck out at me. And so I actually just took it home that weekend before we put it out because I you know could always take it home for free. And just I'll give it a watch. And if I don't like it, I'll turn it off. And I was I was pleasantly surprised. I really liked it. Now watching it, you know, all these years later, it was 2009, I think, right, Ken? Yeah. Yeah. So I I liked it a lot more. Maybe part of it because I'm older, and another part of it is because we've seen what has happened to the dating scene. If anything, it's probably more relevant today than it was when it came out in 09. So I think it has a lot to say, and and time has been very kind to it, ironically or appropriately, I think. Um, definitely appreciated since then. So I liked it a lot. And it's also one of those movies. At first, I was like, oh, you know, Wosha's a little funnier, but it's actually just the right level of like pleasant. Like it kind of puts a smile on your face. You may not laugh loud, but you'll always be smiling throughout most of it, which is a pleasant experience to have. Like I think I I classify it as like a black mirror episode, but the black but the mirror isn't cracked, you know, it's not a dystopian nightmare. Yeah, but it's very much like Black Mirror before Black Mirror, like it's very much a black mirror premise where it's our world, but it's just this one little piece of technology is introduced, and you know, the chaos ensues. So I like the gray mirror.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

It's a gray mirror. Sorry, it's a shades of gray mirror. Pink mirror. Dedo, what do you what did you think?

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Yeah, I I agree. Overall, very much enjoyed this movie. I will admit rom coms are actually a guilty pleasure of mine. I don't watch a ton of them, but I usually enjoy them. I love this idea, and I'm kind of shocked we haven't seen a Netflix show exploring all the potential ramifications of this idea. Like, there are so many interesting stories you could pull out of this concept. I also really like that they actually attempted to explain how this would work. And like you were saying, Professor, like it's actually with AI, it's actually more plausible that this idea could work now. Right. This movie came out. So I thought that was really cool because I expected them to completely shirk from that. And they they at least tried a little bit, but they also didn't dwell on it. So I think that was like that was really smart. I will say I do think there is a one really big flaw in this movie that I will get to because it's probably kind of a little spoilery, that I that kept it from being a truly, truly good movie. Okay, but overall I still very much enjoyed it, would still absolutely recommend it. And I and I'm looking forward to the budget game because I feel like this was like this is like a much a much more well-produced movie than what we usually do.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

This will be a real curveball for the budget game, I think.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's gonna be a fun one. Um but yeah, overall it was it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

So awesome. When and I don't know if you're if you're you're uh the flaw that you have with the movie is the ending, but we can get to that when we get into spoiler territory. But that is something that was like generally kind of controversial. So looking forward to talking to that.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Interesting, it's not that it's not the ending. I'm okay with the interesting. Oh, the ending.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Okay. Okay. But my I'm okay with the ending too, by the way. I am also okay with the ending. Okay. So back to you for a second, Dedto. So uh, you know what? I was thinking too watching at this time, and because of you know, the time we're in, that this would actually make a great like streaming show where you could, as you said, like explore all the different possibilities of the premise. But I wanted to ask you, what do you think just generally about the central premise and how it works?

SPEAKER_03 9:03

So yeah, like I like I like it. Like, there's so there's so much here, and and like because it's like it kind of portrays Una as like like that's her arc, and she needs to stop worrying about it, but you're like, but at the same time, it's gonna be like no, that's perfectly justifiable that she wants. I mean, having having been actively dating in my 30s, I met an awful lot of women that were like, Are you the one? No, you're not, because you ordered the wrong cocktail, bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

And like, you know, like so like also in a world where you know for a fact that that person is out there, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:49

But like, so I do think this is this was a flaw in the concept was that the fact that her thing was blank just meant her dude hadn't gotten a timer installed. And like it's one of those things you it's not unlike the original Star Wars trilogy, you don't want to dig too deep because as soon as you start digging a little too deep, you're like, none of this really holds up. Like, what if her soulmate is some dude in Kuala Lumpur who's never gonna fucking get a timer implant? Right. Like, like what's the guarantee?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Like, so like I think they need to. So that is actually, I mean, that actually is a reason why you could think you could sort of see where maybe she does need to get over it, right? Because if if her dude is in Kuala Lumpur, then maybe she needs to just like get over it and and find somebody who's like good enough for now.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

So like this was a minor detail, but like the fact that her parents were so into it, which did provide the pressure for Un. So there was good motivation in that way. But I didn't really understand why her parents would be so into it, other than that, like the mom felt like it justified her situation, but it was almost like they should have been the inventors or something, they were just they were so into it, it was kind of culty, and the fact that they are like as soon as the kid turned 14 or whatever, which side note, how is it legal to give the 14-year-old this thing at a glance? Like, that's awesome. Teenage pregnancy must go through the fucking move to make through this thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Right, right. Although I do think like there was something culty, there was something intentionally culty about it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

I do like overall the movie was not the point of the movie was not is this a good idea or a bad idea. And I do yeah, like that, like that kept it from being a black mirror episode. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

I thought that was pretty crazy. I did think it was a little bit of like a fool's game for her to like every guy she dates to get to have him go get a timer, because I thought the odds of her like randomly dating some guy and then having get a timer, and it turns out he's the one seem so high, except that I think she thought in her mind, like if I really like him, then that means he must be the one, and the timer will just confirm it.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah, and I almost think like seem a little bit of a stretch to me. I think maybe she needed to be older. But I don't know, it was 2009. Has Artrosectu shifted that hard? Like me, 30-year-old is not like I'm freaking out, I'm a spinster. I know. 30 year old is just like I need to start looking.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Well, I can also see it working depending on who you can get in the cast. Like, you can make it work if she's turning 30. You can make it work if she's turning 40 or 50, you know, depending on who you're casting.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

To be fair, I did I again maybe this is also a perspective thing, but like I kind of felt like Emma Caulfield looked older than 30. So I feel like they could have very easily since she was 40, and I would have believed it. Especially as the movie went on. So just a side note, because there was like there's there's one line that happens in the movie that made me think that they shot this movie piecemeal. Um when she's like she's talking to Mikey and she's like, I've only had sex with four guys, and he's like, Oh, am I gonna be number five? And I'm like, wait, they already had sex. Right?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Like what he said, oh that makes me number five.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Yeah, but he said it as if he was like that meant they were gonna have sex that's like why else would you say that? Like, you know, I don't know. I just I took it as like, oh, they shot that scene first and then they decided yeah, they needed to hook up sooner.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

You know, or they were like, oh shit, we can we can get this bar and we're gonna shoot a band scene. Yeah, you know, like yeah, yeah, very minor, but it could be, yeah, it could be so it made me think, and so like like as the movie went on, I don't know, she just I'm not I'm not a face person. I don't like uh at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Well we know we know where your eyes go typically though, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

There is that, but also like I just I'm just like I don't recognize faces and like two-thirds of the way through the movie, I was like, has she gotten significantly older? And Catherine was like, Yeah, she looks a lot older. So I don't know. I just feel like maybe the shooting of this was spread out a bit, which is common with community films. Yeah, yeah, could be totally wrong too. That's just that's me, that's me just conjecting.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah, I also really like the sister. She's good, she's funny. And I what did you think about her, Professor? What did you think about her dilemma with the timer?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

With yeah, it's and it's interesting. Like there's so much like Deddo said, there's so many interesting questions and thematic questions and moral questions that it raises that uh and one one of the the more interesting questions I thought before I get to Michelle Borth, the actors who play stuff, is the question that introduces us does it work? Does it work at all? Like, you know, the premise introduces it as it it absolutely works, and as it goes along, it gets more and more gray, if anything. It's it kind of it becomes kind of like like cold reading, you know, people who quote unquote talk to the dead, right? Are they talking to the dead, or do you just think they are because you really want to believe it so badly? That's like so does it really work, or do you make it work? That to me is maybe the most interesting idea it has and its ramifications. And so to come to Steph, the character, and she kind of emphasizes the there's there's kind of like two when the and the the really the one thing I really like and love about this movie is not just the the premise but the way it makes the world believable if this were in our world, you know, there's so many of these movies or episodes, and that's one thing Black Mirror does really good. They do they do a pretty good job of imagining the world that introduces this one piece of technology. But there are some stories that like introduce technology or introduce one idea, and you're like, well, that's not how people would react. Like that that doesn't make any sense. But this people react relatively believably. So if you had this idea where you have a number that says you're guaranteed to meet your soulmate on this date or at this this day, you'll fall into like two camps. One where the closer you get to that day, you're gonna feel like you're cheating on your future soulmate, so you're not gonna want to engage with anybody, or then the opposite, which is uh which is you're just gonna have sex with everybody because you're like I've only got one week, so I gotta get it all in now. Um, or you have this is the stuff situation, her timer is like supposed to expire when she's like in her 40s, her early 40s, and she's in her late 20s. Yeah. So she's like, well, you know, I can do whatever I want for now, you know. So I think that, and which is kind of the opposite of where Una is, right? Because she's taking it very seriously and sacred. So, you know, it's it's it's just an interesting dynamic between those two because they're believable as you know, sisters or half-sisters, if you will. Um, and their their rapport is really good. I I kind of like that. I think that's one thing that this movie gets pretty right too is rapport between characters, which is essential in a romantic comedy, right? Like you there's gotta be some sort of quote unquote chemistry where you kind of believe these people, and I think the director does a really good job of maybe letting their camera roll sometimes and just like maybe having little improv moments or like little moments of connection between these two characters to like make you think that they would be they would belong together or they would be together, which I think is a really great thing about it too. Yeah, so I think yeah, so I think overall like the the world that it sets up is just super interesting. Um, and one thing I mean, one your opinion, your opinion on guys, is the uh the way they set it set up the whole thing. So anytime you have this kind of and then this is sci-fi idea, right? You're introducing this technology of this timer. So the question is, well, how do I get it across, right? How do I explain it? Um, and they do the opening scene is really good, right? I love that the opening shot's a parking meter, so you see time being added to it, which is a great shot. And then you pull out, and you think it's the timer, but then you pull out and you realize, oh, it's a parking meter. And as Ken mentioned, she's at this the the timer store is like an apple store. And to go back to your point, Ken, about the cult thing, that's absolutely, I think, intentional, where they're trying to make like cult of timers like cult of apple kind of colours. Don't say it, Ted. Don't say it. Right, Tedo. Um and um, so they have this, you know, really, and of course, her boyfriend is you know new to it. So anytime you have a character who's new to something, you can explain things to them. And we go to the store for the first time, and it's all explained to us with that that great actress Callie Roca is her name, who is the timer employee, and she has some great, she's just really good. She has some great character moments that we'll move on. Good line to later.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

One of my favorite lines is when she says, What what took you so long to get a timer? Because he's thirty, he's 30 something. Yeah, and he's like, Oh, well, I've I'm from I'm from Oklahoma. Oklahoma. And she's like, Oh, that's it. Yeah, say no more. Say no more.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

The way she says say no more. That may come that say no more for me may come back later in this episode. Excellent. But but they do a yeah, there you go. Don't ruin it, Tedo. Um, but they do a really good job, but the character interaction and the way that they explain how the timer works and everything, it's really well well laid out. It's not forced, it's entertaining. There's some great character stuff, it's really good. And then it goes into the credits montage, which um is fun to watch, like it because it imagines it shows it kind of brings you up to speed because the idea is that once the story really kind of starts after the credits, it's we're like 15 years or so, 20 years almost into this timer world. So the timer's been around for like a generation, essentially, almost a generation. And the the montage brings us up to the speed in those years and kind of shows us, you know, how it's evolved and explains the technology. The problem is for me, there's a lot of stuff that's are that in that month that's in the opening scene already. So we're kind of getting the exposition twice. And I had a theory, I don't know if it's true, but that that opening scene was either reshoot and like added later after it opened with the montage, or they moved a scene from after the montage to the front, and like stuff that was supposed to be explained in the montage, they put up front in that one. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong because it because it is a great opening image. So maybe that was always conceived that way.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, but I understand somebody said, Oh, we're still not getting enough. Maybe there was some kind of note saying, Well, we're still not getting enough, we need more.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah, and I understand not wanting people to be confused and kind of over-emphasizing the points, but I just felt like you know, sometimes even the specific lines of dialogue were exactly the same, even though the montage is really fun and entertaining to watch. Yeah, I don't I don't necessarily know you need to cut it, but I just felt like it was a little too much exposition in the first five to seven minutes of the movie. It's like we get it, yeah. We got it. It's it's it's pretty simple premise, you explained it well. Yeah, let's move on.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Although it's it's funny because and again, like as much as I like rom-coms, I'm not someone who is ever like seeking a relationship. So maybe maybe this is unique to me, but like we first meet Steph and you see she's got a shitload of time on her watch left, I didn't register that as a bad thing, and then we meet her and we get to know her, and she's acting like that's a trauma, and I'm like, oh wait, how long did she have like how long did she have? I don't remember because I didn't register it, wasn't that significant to me. So on the one hand, I hear what you're saying, Professor, but on the other hand, I feel like maybe if they did test screenings, they were like, people are just not truly grasping this, and we gotta just it's possible, maybe it's absolutely possible because like all throughout the movie, I was like, I don't remember how long is she gonna be ninety? How long is she how old is she gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

I know why is she acting like this? It's funny, now that you say that, not to not to derail this, but I I I feel like they should have made her timer. If it was gonna be such a big deal, maybe it should have been when she was 50 or something. Well, that and that's the thing really gotta have to wait a long time. And maybe like post-like worried about like she may not have kids if she wants kids. Right. Yeah, that's a natural thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Yeah, like we needed we needed one more detail about her full well, because like the movie was presenting it as if her behavior was wrong. And I was like, no, there's nothing wrong with what she's doing. Like she's gonna find her soulmate at 40. Yeah, she's enjoying herself in the meantime with guys that she knows she's not gonna break their hearts. Like, yeah, that's that's what's wrong with that, right? Like, there was a weird tiny bit of puritanism in this movie um that didn't need to be there, yeah. And you know, like, but you know, very minor, but it just uh there anytime we were focused on Steph's story, I was kind of like, I'm not sure what the props here, yeah. You know, like she was like, she meets she meets dude and and she's like, oh no timer. And it's like, so what? You just you still like you still know that like you're gonna find your nude at 40, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

And also speaking of puritism, puritism, also some random dirtiness. Was any were you guys thrown off by the F words in the movie? Like when they would say fuck, like it just it seemed like a PG 13 movie to me, and then all of a sudden they'd say fuck out of nowhere, and I'm like, Oh, okay, that's that's strange. There was nine fucks in the movie, and I'm not sure. I think maybe one of them could have been there. I don't think we needed you have no fucks to give. That's right. They were out of fucks to give. Um, I feel like if you just have one, it could have been PG 13. I mean, it's not like it's gonna limit its audience, I guess. So it's probably doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Was it rated R?

SPEAKER_02 23:49

It was a rated R, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Oh, yeah, that's silly. That yeah, that's a weird weird. Yeah, yeah, actually, so I was gonna find an audience. I was gonna bring this up later, but it's it's relevant now. So, as much as I am a boob guy and enjoy nudity in movies, I will admit that most of the time most sex scenes are unnecessary. Um, this was an occasion where I actually thought we should have seen the sex scene between her and Mikey. The first I wanted to see the chemistry and whether or not it was the best sex of his life. You know, like I just I felt like they were such a mismatch.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

That they shot.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

It's possible did Ken. Yeah, it's I get that sense too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

But if it was rated R, yeah, why not bother? Yeah, why not show it?

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Show, show more at least. It made me wonder if, like, again, that was a pickup scene or or something. But I was like, for once, I was like, no, I I feel like we're missing something here. I want to know what that sex was like. Did it yeah, because if it you know, it could have gone either way, it could have disappointed her, and she could have been like, I did I should not have done this, yeah, been mind-blowing, and like we know but then we do find out like when she talks to when she she goes over the whole night with her with uh her sister the next day.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

I mean, she says all that, so I still feel like it would have been better to see it, I guess. We would have benefited from seeing that, yeah. Although I love the whole scene leading up to it, the meeting at the meeting at the bar, and he's playing in the band, and then all his roommates are there, and he runs out, and he's like, Don't ruin this for me.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

All that was great, I thought yeah, agreed, agreed. Yeah, although again, like I mean, I know she was afraid of what her sister might say, but it was like, just go to your house. Yeah, yeah. What do you do?

unknown 25:45

No, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Why are you going to the dude's place? I know, but I think that was part of it, right? She's like, just gonna hook up with a young dude. She wants like the whole young dude experience.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

I guess, yeah, I'm not sure she did. Um I don't know. Yeah, but yeah, it's funny. I didn't even think about rating, but yeah, like it's that did not need to be an R-rated movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But I mean, do ratings even mean anything anymore?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

No, no. I mean, not it meant more in 2009, yeah, than it does now.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Was this was this theatrical at all?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

I don't think so. I looked it up now, I'm forgetting, but I it played at the Tribeco Film Festival, yeah, and then it was picked up, and I think it went straight to either cable or streaming. Okay, I mean this was 2009. That's that's still a G.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Yeah, so that's that's peak.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Yeah, I mean it may have may have been really short run two cities for guild purposes, because sometimes if you've got sag actors in it, sometimes there's a contractual obligation to put it somewhere. Right, right. Going back to like the the thematic thing, the other thing I really liked about this screenplay is the way the theme is kind of woven into different scenes in different ways, which I think is really interesting. Like, I I like the the fact that there's a scene early on where we learned she's an orthodontist, Una is, which I think is is interesting because like it's just a a good profession that she could be in that random characters can come in and see her, which from a screenplay standpoint is really smart. Um, but the an early scene with her that really gets us to like Una and really like plays in her dilemma is there's a girl, like a 12-year-old girl or 13 year old girl who has braces and she has one month to go, and she's like, you know what, let's just take the braces off.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Oh, dude, that was that was such a save the cat moment. Yeah, but it's like a central save the cat moment.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yeah, well, it's not just to say the save the cat moment, it kind of is, but but I liked it because it's it not only kind of like gives us a sense of her character, but it also again, it's another countdown, right? It's another and she she feels like what I really liked about that is that I think it's I think it's better than a typical save the cat moment because it really gets she's she's starting to feel like she this this her life isn't really in control because of this black this blank timer, and now she can actually take some control in this and say, you know what, we're gonna their timer's gonna end now, and she's gonna do it. And that kind of starts her on her kind of little journey of like trying to deal with this, which I thought was really well done. And there's all sorts of little scenes like that throughout, um, yeah, where the theme is kind of woven in that way in clever ways, which I think is really, really well done.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

That is a that is a super deep read that I did not catch. But you're right, and but I will also argue that I think it is actually a very important save the cat moment because it is absolutely well well, because most people don't like dentists, yeah. They have a they have a bad reputation, they they're always trying to upsell you. You're like, Do I really have a cavity? This doesn't hurt. And in that scene, you're like, She's a good dentist, like she's not trying to rip this kid off. Yeah, like so. That I think that was actually a great little moment, a really good utilization of that.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, she's a dentist, only an orthodontist, Detto. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah, I like that. I like that line in there when when Mikey they're in the car together, like when they were first together, and Mikey says, What do you do for a living? She's like, I'm an orthodontist, and he goes, Oh, so you're a dentist, and she goes, Yes, except I'm an orthodontist. Which I really like the way that's deadpan. I think that's really funny.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah, probably equally as as hated orthodontist. Yeah, maybe more so, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Maybe more so anyone who's fucking with your mouth and then charging you a thousand dollars is yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is like a dream for any kid who had dent who had or braces to be told you're getting them off early. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

I had the object experience, I had them on too long. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

You had a shitty orthodontist.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

No, I had shitty teeth.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

So I I think part of the thing I was missing in this movie was some raised stakes. And like, did you guys ever see the movie The Family Stone? It was not there.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah, the Sarah Jessica Parker helped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

I only saw it because it was a film in the town I went to college in. Oh, but like the concept there of like a dude who's like, my mom is dying. I gotta get married before she dies. Like, that's that's that's a solid concept, right? You kind of needed something like that here. Because like she never she was never even talking about like a biological clock, like she wasn't gonna have she was just like, I really just want to find my person, but you're like, Yeah, but that's I don't know, but that's a universal, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I mean, it's a universal thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

It's a universal thing, and the only reason she was experiencing stakes was because she didn't have a deadline, right? Which does not resonate with the audience who don't have deadlines, right? Right, like I don't know. I th it I think it res I don't know, I feel like it resonated. Like I I mean the the one resonated, but from a dramatic narrative, yeah, because it was like ultimately we're like if she doesn't if her timer doesn't go off she doesn't Right, it's not the end of the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

But exactly but I mean I think that's generally in rom-coms, right? I mean, how many like when Harry met Sally is a great rom com, but yeah, this is what's the stakes there? If they don't get together at the end, so what, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Well, but alright, all right, so this is this is my big issue with the movie, and and what I think sets it aside from most rom coms. And so in the case of Harry Met Sally or pretty much any other rom-com, the audience wants them to get it together. That's the mistake, right? Right? So you as the audience are like, when are they gonna figure this out? Like, we know, we know it's the right thing. That's the joy of a rom com, right? Like and in this one, I think the the huge flaw is that Mikey is too young, and so the whole time you're watching this and you're like, I don't think I should be rooting for this. He doesn't seem right for her, and the movie is not about how she needs to loosen up and embrace a bohemian lifestyle, right? Like, like, so like the whole time you're just like how are we gonna how are they gonna resolve this satisfactorily? But we're but I know they're not gonna end up together, right? And that's kept it from being a truly perfect rom-com for me. Because I was like, if they had just made Mikey 28, but a Bohemian, you could have kept everything else. Yeah, just don't make him 22.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

The he's also way too charming for a funny about that is that all of the internet disagrees with you, Tedto. So I don't maybe we should well. Do we want to get into spoiler territory and talk about the end?

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Sure, but one last one last thematic thing that I was maybe again, maybe I'm reading into this again. But uh, where the I think the movie in a way address that that issue that I brought up before, that the questioning of does it work, which becomes bigger, more of an issue as the movie goes along, which I think is super interesting. But there's a scene where Mikey and Una are together, and and Una reveals that she and Steph, they're half sisters, but they have the same birthday. They're not twins, of course, but they have the same birthday, and every year their mom quote unquote surprises them with a surprise party. And Mikey says, Well, if she does it every year, how is it a surprise? And she just says, Oh, we pretend. And I'm like, that to me was like kind of encapsulated in a different way, in a dramatic way. The whole kind of concept of does the timer work? Oh, we just pretend, you know, that without kind of explicitly stating it, but like implicitly kind of saying this is really what we're trying to say here, which I thought was super interesting.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I I like that too because I think it like you said, Professor, it gets more and more ambiguous as the movie goes on. And I think that's at one point I wrote this down. Una even says, you know, later in the movie, they're gonna go get their timers taken off because they're like, We're over, we're done with this. We just wanna we don't want to deal with it anymore. And so as they're they're sitting in the the the timer occult y place, Una says, Does the timer work or is it just a self-fulfilling prophecy? Like she's really wondering that. And I think even at the end of the movie, it sort of leaves that question open a bit.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Yeah, that's what I liked about the ending. I think we all agree we'd like the ending, which is I like that it introduces these questions, but then doesn't give you an answer necessarily. You know, like the movie itself is almost agnostic towards this, like it doesn't necessarily take a stand either way, whereas I think a bigger Hollywood film would have, they would have certainly advocated for one side or another, or or you know, kind of made it trying to make it you know more relatable or more happy, whatever. Yeah. But the fact that's a little ambiguous, I think, is really great.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

Yeah, I would argue that it's not does it work, but does it have to work?

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Right. Or does it matter?

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Right, yeah, right. So like when they go when they go in and she and she goes and sees her father and his his her father's girlfriend is like partner, like is like, yeah, I took mine off because I love I love your dad, even though you know they you know it the timer says no. Yeah. And I thought that was I thought that was cool. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

It was and it mo it's the what motivates them to go get their timers to get their timers taken off.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Kind of rendered moot by the ending. So I don't know, like this is the movie likes the likes the word moot, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

So it does.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Is mood is moot a word? Um, this is why I I want a series. I want to explore, I want to explore all these different scenarios. I want I want the story of the person who doesn't realize they're gay. I want the story of the two bros who who are soulmates, but they're but they're not gay. Like they're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

That was another funny line from the opening scene when when she's when Kelly Rocus says, Hetero, hope that sticks. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

You want you want the yo, you want the story of like the like her parents, you know, or like we're together, but oh, turns out we shouldn't be, you know, like some interesting potential stories there. But yeah, I don't like I feel like the movie couldn't make up its mind, um, yeah, as to like what should actually happen there for Una.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah, um which I kind of liked, honestly. Okay, so like I I kind of liked it too, because it's not what you would expect from a a typical romantic comedy. But that's my point.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Like I would I would be perfectly fine with that if this was a Black Mirror episode. But as a rom-com, yeah, you're you're kind of expecting a payoff.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

You want a little more comfort food?

SPEAKER_03 36:48

I want a little more rom in my rom in your comment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so it was it was it was ultimately a little unsatisfying from a rom-com point of view.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

A little more hallmark, a little less black mirror.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Is that what it's yeah, like yeah. I mean, uh the only thing is I would argue that the most important relationship is between the sisters. So the fact that they I mean, also it's not rom com, but the fact that they they make up and rec they're okay with each other at the end helps make the ending work for me.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

I don't I don't know if I mean don't get me wrong, I like that plot and I liked and like I agree they had chemistry. I don't know if that was the most important relationship.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

I don't I don't I don't think that was I I think so she even said it's pretty central, yeah. Yeah, at at the end, when they say you're my favorite person and all that, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

But like if you actually look at the arc of the plot, the you know, the all is lost moment is not like is not the sisters breaking up, it's you know, it's her and Mikey, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Like oh no, I think the lost moment is the sisters is when when Dan gets in the between. When Dan gets between the sisters, yeah. I don't think I think it's already by the time she and Mikey break up, it's a really good scene, but I think it's uh we already know it's done. Yeah, they break up she and Mikey.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

We already we always knew it was done, which is my my big problem with the movie, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:12

So the Mikey is being being my screenwriting nerd. So the Mike the Mikey Una breakup comes with 32 minutes to go. So that's right, and it's about a hundred-minute movie, it's like 99 minutes, so like save the cat kind of classic screenwriting formula. That's your last third. That's the end of act two moment is that essentially.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

But there's the there's the final final breakup, though.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah, then there's the final final. Well, there's two breakups. Yeah, there's the one breakup, but the the the the final final breakup is closer to the climax. That's when they, you know, right. That's into the third act. But like the breakup moment when they the the the like the real time when she says she's about to turn 30 and she kind of pushes him away, that's 32 minutes to go. When they first part, essentially.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah, I would like to add a disclaimer that I in no way endorse Save the Cat as the end all me all uh uh in answer.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

I will say the to use no not at all. To use Save the Cat language, the movie does a good job of exploiting the promise of the premise, I will say. But yeah, I I would agree with you, Dedo. I think Save the Cat has done more to destroy uh mainstream American filmmaking than anything. Oh that this is a whole nother podcast. Tune into our kill the cat podcast. Let's not beat a dead cat, but uh yeah, who's good, it's good, it engenders a healthy debate.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

But I I guess I guess I will I will I will say this. The point of a rom com is not a relationship between sisters, unless you're watching this rom-con on Pornhub.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

That's true. That's true. That's true. But I think they're hinting that well, I think they're hinting at the end that she may actually get together with Dan, the nursing home guy. Una. Una. Oh yeah, absolutely. There's no question there. Yeah, I think there I think there is a I think there is a question. No. I think there is a question about that guy.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

They would not have had that scene otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

I think it's I think it's to leave you, I think it still leaves you with a question whether whether she's gonna go against science and reject it because she rejected the timer. I think there's a little bit of a window open there. Like I I agree that it's pretty strongly applied that they probably will get together. But I think the fact that she runs away from him at the end He doesn't run away from him. The conversation ends naturally and she plays a goal. Right, but she doesn't, it's not like it fades out as they're like smiling goofily at each other. Like they go off in they go off in their separate directions.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

That is an it's an absolute like I will see you again soon. Like that is they I'm sorry, that is unequivocally they are ending up together. There is no victory. I think there is no no it because here's the thing. Here's the thing. This is my this is my rule about stuff like this. The film the film is the any film, it's a microcosm, right? It's a self-contained microcosm. We can apply real-world rules to this. I've had plenty of times where I've randomly run into someone, you know, for the second time and been like, oh, this must be fate, and then it wasn't fate, right? But like in the movie world, they chose to show us that scene. There's only one reason to show us that scene, and that is because they're gonna get together. Because if they weren't gonna get together, there's no reason to show that scene. You just end the movie one scene earlier. I would say his last line supports that too, Dana.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

I would say his oh yeah, you should come in.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

You should sleep in more often or you should come later more often.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah, yeah. I still think there's more of a question there, but I'm not gonna belabor it. Uh so a lot of people did think she was gonna get together with Mikey at the end.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Well, that's because those are not as much movies as we do.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

I'm just saying, like, it seemed to be the common, the common theme that I read was people generally like the movie but hate it the ending. Like hate it. I hated it, really.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah, yeah. I saw that one. I think probably for maybe for the reasons you're talking about, Dedto, where if if the the audience that it's pitched at is expecting something, I could easily see like if this got like a wide release, I could easily see a low cinema score, you know, like a C a C plus or C, maybe the lower cinema score, because it does, I will say it does kind of pull the rug out a little bit for our habitual rom-com audience, expecting a certain type of ending and not getting it.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah, and that kind of yeah, I can see where people would the other thing. The other criticism I saw was that people really wanted her to reject the technology, uh, and that there's this whole you know big tech, big tech thing behind the timer, and so they wanted the movie to really like come down at the end, like rejecting it outright, which it just doesn't, you know, it doesn't do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

And I think that's also a function of time, too. I think that idea is stronger now in terms of rejecting Silicon Valley crap like this. Whereas in 2009, 2009 is just two years after the iPhone debut, so there's still a lot of excitement about that sort of thing and like how this is gonna change our lives, yeah. So I think that's just coming out today in a different it's differently given what we've seen from Silicon Valley the last 10, 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Yeah, I mean, I'm watching this movie and I'm like, what's their business model? There's no way this with a subscription business model, it cannot just be a flat fee.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Well, they do have they do have a monthly fee, they say that. Oh, they do? They say it's $79.99, and then they she said uh the actress says the Kelly Rokus said. This is the price really quickly, so I missed how much the monthly fee was, but it did end in a 99. So it was like 79.99 installation charge and then a monthly fee. Yeah, okay. But even that's a bit funny.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

They're gonna add features that they're gonna charge you more for. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And that would be like a funny plot line for the TV series where you know they they're adding new features, but people don't want it, or that somebody is like they can't afford the the they get it, but they can't afford the subscription fee.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

So they they add ads.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

If we're starting to get into the spoilers, the reveal that Mikey's timer is fake, I thought was pretty brilliant. Like I one, I didn't see that coming, and two, that is absolutely what would happen, right? There would absolutely be you know bros out there who would they they make the analogy in the movie of it's like wearing a fake wedding ring, but it's even more effective than that because if you really want to get late, you say, Oh, look, my my timer is gonna expire. We need we gotta have sex now. Yeah, you know, that would absolutely happen.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

So I love how Steph says, Oh, that's actually that's actually a great idea. Yeah, she got a genius, yeah. Yeah, kind of genius.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Side note, I also absolutely want an entire movie based on the old guy from the nursing home. Yeah, oh he needed more stages. Whatever his name was. He's so great. He was awesome, fantastic. I want I want a road trip movie of stuff, like going to Vegas or something.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Yeah, and then that's another kind of thematic with the Sadie, the woman with Alzheimer's. I could I could they could have done a little more with her character too, because that's another great thematic thing he throws in, or she throws in here, where you know, here's someone everybody's obsessed with time and timing and everything. And here's someone with Alzheimer's whose time doesn't have any meaning really for her. You know, it's kind of all swirled around and doesn't even have a concept of it really because of the way her mind works. So it's like another kind of thematic thing that it throws in there, which I thought was great.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

You are you are such a better watcher of movies. I was I was just like, this is a morbidly dark joke, and I don't like well.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I will say I will say that like that goes back to the idea of like they could have done a little more for character, like it is kind of it stuck out to me that that's what they were doing with that.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

It wasn't it wasn't a good way to introduce Steph because it was like being unnecessarily me. Although the whole bit, the whole bit about you know, I'm gay was funny, yeah, but like you needed to make Sadie a little more unlikable first. Uh it just felt like it felt kind of punching down, and it felt like you were that was she was not saving the cat.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

She was kicking yeah, kicking the dog, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Um yeah, that was that that kind of stuff. But I it never even occurred to me the theme there, like that's occurred to me at all. So that's why we call him the professor.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Uh any other thoughts on the ending? Spoiler spoilery thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

So I like I saw it coming, so I didn't hate it. And I actually I actually very much enjoyed the dilemma. I just I wish I didn't see it coming as much as I did, and I saw it coming because I was like, there is just no way that this script is putting her with Mikey, because the like I said, the point of the movie was not that Una needed to loosen up and recapture her youth, which wouldn't imply that she should end up with a 22-year-old. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

They also like go out of their way to make him s start to seem like he's not a good match for her. So yeah, exactly. You see her realizing that he's too young for her, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:55

Which is which is also like, yeah, pretty realistic and and and normal, and like it was very believable. Like it would be like after like a few months be like, oh yeah, this this kid is still a child.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Yeah, yeah. The only moment that they the only moment is that which maybe they should have built more on to throw off the audience, but when she arrives at the birthday party, the first thing she sees is Mikey talking to the parent, the the the parents, the housekeeper, right, and the dad, and she starts to look at him like like reassess all of a sudden, and then all the stuff, then she gets interrupted and all the stuff at the timer happens. So if they had like expanded on that moment somehow and really kind of made you, you know, question it, maybe that would have worked better. So this is what I would have done.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Alright, I would have had her, I would have had her do the breakup with Mikey, and then she changes her mind. Maybe you don't even need the breakup with Mikey. The important part is she goes to her dad, she's like, Take a listen to this, and then and then enough stuff happens that you kind of forget about that. And when you think that she's gonna end up with Mikey, he's like, Holy shit, your dad just called. I'm going to to Nashville tomorrow, and I don't know when I'll be back. And she's like, What? What about our future? And he's like, What are you talking about? You said we didn't have a future, yeah, you know, and it just like that would have been plausible and believable and and and enough like tugging on the heartstrings, and then she's sad, and then she meets widow Dave or whatever his name is, yeah, and and you get your happy ending, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Yeah, yeah. Also, too, because we they the there's never any follow-up, but not that not that it was necessary, but they don't follow up with the dad, right? Right, right. Yeah, the just a reason for her to go there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

I feel like I don't know if that was an add-on or not, but that that felt a little like people were like, but Mikey got fucked.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

So it also feels like there's a missing payoff to that because you have you're missing a third thing. So you got two there's two beats there. One is he finds out that her dad is this legendary music producer, he's like, Oh, he's a legend, there's one. The second one is she goes to see him and brings his CD, even though she he didn't ask her. So that's a nice save the cat moment, right? He she gives him his C D without him asking, and then nothing, and like that's that's it. And I and I kind of liked in one sense that it if it I mean if it ended with him like on stage at like a concert hall or like a venue or like a bigger venue, and like he's got a record deal now. I'm like, all right, whatever. That's don't need that. Well, they wouldn't have to do that. I give it credit for not doing that, but like it seems like it was spending some screen time on this, and then nothing yeah happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Essentially, yeah, yeah. I think it would have been enough, as you said, Dotto, for him to say, I'm I'm leaving, I got a gig.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Right, right, right, right, yeah. I know uh it's uh circled circling back to what Professor was saying about like just like you know, it's an unconventional rom com ending. And like those are like when you're dealing with a genre like this, it's just it's so hard to pull that off. Like it is, it is look at Kingpin, which is not rom com, but it's comedy, right? Right. Nobody talks about that movie, it's a legitimately funny movie, it's hilarious, but because he loses at the end, you're like eh, that was unsatisfying. Dodgeball famously had them losing, and it did so poorly in test screenings that they had to fix that, right? You know, like it's just it's it's really hard to pull that off.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

My students do that all the time, Dada, because like they they try to pull off the downer ending or the the the sort of like unexpected ending, and they just they don't have the craft to do it, or they don't have the experience to do it, and like you said, it's incredibly difficult to make that satisfying. Like the Rocky ending is the rare exception, you know, when you're you're but because he built the whole movie around it, didn't matter whether he won or not. So it's like yeah, but you know, it's just incredibly difficult to pull that off. Uh right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

And that's the thing, it's it's so much better to surprise us how you got there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Rather than where you ended up. Well, the classic saying in screenwriting is the ending should be surprising yet inevitable, you know, like and that that contradiction is really hard to navigate. That's why endings are bitch, that's why it's so hard to to have a good ending. Yeah, because it has to be come, you know, has to like move you and surprise you, but it can't feel you know, like it's out of nowhere or unsatisfying. And that's hard. Because there's because when you're when you're going to like, well, we gotta have an ending satisfying, there's a finite number of things that can happen, and you gotta pick the one that will work best and will surprise the ending, the the audience the most.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

Yeah. So which is you know a long way of saying this movie was so close to fucking nailing it. Yeah, it's close to per close to perfect, yeah. Pretty close to perfect. It really was. It really was uh it's yeah, absolutely worth a watch, but yeah, you're you after all afterwards, you're like shall we play the the box office game? Uh I don't know. I kind of want to argue more about Mikey and Una, but uh if you guys be like, we're done.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

The internet loves Mikey.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

I was gonna say, yeah, this sounds like there's a lot of forums off online for you to do that. Just make a bunch of anonymous accounts on Reddit and just fuck with people.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

I will I will fully I will fully acknowledge that if the genders were swapped, you know, and it was a 30-year-old man having a 20 affair with a 20-year-old fair, they were just dating, but um people would be like, Oh yeah, you know, like maybe they end up maybe they won't. But in in this case, it really was. It was like it was not just the age difference, it was the like their personalities were so different. Yeah, but then just just exacerbated by the age thing, you're just like, there's just there's just no way she's gonna be happy with this guy three years from now.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Yeah, it was a real it's a real mismatch. Like they they they went too far in making them a mismatch.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

And and like I said, it easily could have been fixed. If you wanted to make this about how Una needed to just loosen up and live life and stop caring so much about everything, or stop obsessing over the timer, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and Mikey showed her how to do that. Great, you know, and then actually that would have been actually a really great way to do it because then and then ironically enough, her timer fucking goes off, and oh, there's the man of her dreams. That would have that would have been.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

I mean, I think that was what they're trying for.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

Yeah, like, but that is not like it. We never it was never like Una needed to be needed to change, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

And then and that is one of the more common romantic tropes, too, of like, you know, the the main character what the main character has to learn is to stop obsessing about something and live in the present, basically. There's a million variations of that in rom-coms essentially.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Yeah, and I think that is I think that is what she needed to learn though.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

Uh, because look at it this way, Ken. The catalyst for the ending has nothing to do with Una at all, and it has everything to do with the fact that Dan, Dave, what was his name? Dan Dave Dan the man Dave got a timer because of her sister. Right? Like that's the reason her timer goes off because the dude finally got a timer, not because she because like that's the thing, they could have set that up. They could have been like, if you're not ready for love, your timer stays blank, and then the whole thing she'd be like, I don't get it, I'm so ready for love. Right? That would have been. But that is not how they set that up, yeah. And and so, like, yeah, like I just like her arc wasn't that she needed to unclench her sphincter, her arc was just like she needed to enjoy life while she waited, but that didn't actually change her future. That just meant she enjoyed life a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:00

You know, right and had Which is maybe also why the ending should have been she rejects the timer outright and doesn't end up with anybody at the end.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

I mean, she could have easily rejected the timer, ran after Mikey, and kissed him in the rain, and people would have loved that, you know, like I wouldn't have loved that.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

I would have been like, yeah, they're getting divorced in five years. I'd have been disappointed. I would have been disappointed with that ending.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

His band's gonna be successful because of her dad, he's gonna fuck 17 groupies, bring home Super Gotteria, and they're gonna Yeah, yeah. Like so.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:36

I don't know. I mean again, I I I I know I get too fixated on this stuff because like whenever you see a movie this good and you're like you're like, oh god damn it. It is so close. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

I agree, like there's something that is just that is off slightly, and I think that's I think that's probably it. It's just what would I just don't know what would I not sure what would fix it if it didn't.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

A reflection of what it's even trying to do, you know, like some of the especially super low budget movies, or not super, but low budget movies, don't even try to do something this emotionally and philosophically and thematically ambitious, yeah, you know, with their script. And I think that's a good thing. I love that it has the fact that it's not too many ideas. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. I really sometimes hardly sparrow.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

I hope she gets the rights to this, right? Because it's just sitting there on Amazon Prime and for a while it wasn't anywhere, like you couldn't see it anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

So yeah, I mean I guess it's not enough, not enough of an IP, I guess. Although if you introduced it as an original idea that people never heard of the movie, it would still work, like it would still get views.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

They can definitely make a show.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Well, that was a that was a decent sized cult hit, I think.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

You know, uh so I mean maybe this movie is just waiting for a podcast to blow it up.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

That's right. I think, yeah. I think once we give our recommendation, I think the intent.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

No, really, yeah. Trust us. No, really.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Uh yeah, so we're gonna do the budget game, Ken. Yeah, what what do you uh what are your guesses for budget? And I found I don't know if it's I didn't find an official budget, but I found generally what people think the range was.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

So okay, that's that's good enough. As long as we have a relatively specific answer, that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

Do you want to go first? I will go first. All right, yeah. 2009, this is a slick movie. They did make the corners. Uh they've name actors. Name actors, no A-listers, but like name actors. I'm going 10 mil.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, you got Emma Caulfield is still in the afterglow of Buffy, um, because Buffy had been anted a few years earlier. You got Joe Beth Williams, who isn't huge but still would be a sizable cost. You got some they they they shoot around some of the sets, like the bar set is an example where like they're trying to make it seem like there's a lot of people there, but there's clearly not. So there's enough, like you said, it looks like there's enough budget stuff to make it not too low budget, but enough like cheats to to make it so I'm gonna go a little lower than that. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go six. I'm gonna go six million. I was gonna say five, half that, but I'm gonna go six. I'll say six million.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Okay. Final final answer. I think final answer. Final answer. Okay. So according to what I found, they said somewhere between one and three mil. What one and three?

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

No, no, it's half what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 59:45

It was shot in LA.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

Well, maybe in L 09, it was okay.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

You can't cut corners in LA, like everything is union. Yeah, there's no way it's definitely more than that.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

Yeah. I don't know. That's all right. But I can see that. Like, there's an there's enough, like I said, cheats here and there to kind of like if they had a little more money, they could have like you know, like the the bar existed. I mean, there's a little more money, they could have got more extras in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

But the bot, I don't know. That to me, that's evidence that the uh the bar scene was a pickup scene where they were like, We gotta we gotta get them together sooner.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Yeah. Um and set up his music too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

I don't know how you do it in that scene though. It didn't shirk from extras, it had a lot of cat. Like, yeah. I man, I I really have trouble believing it was only one of many locations.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

I mean, there's no special effects.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

There's the two there's the timer effect, which is you know there's a timer effect. You know how there's uh there's an establishing shot with the timer on a billboard, the timer added on a billboard. That's true. So that's true. There's you know a JPEG on an out.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

I mean, I mean, if if it was a million dollars, like bravo.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

I want to say it's gotta be at least three. Yeah, I think sounds more likely.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

Shot on film, so that's another shot of films, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

So, Professor, do you have any favorite quotes that you would like to uh you would like to?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:13

Oh, we have to do the walkin' awards. So, Deno, do you want to uh explain the walken awards?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Uh the walking awards are twofold. One is which which role would be improved by uh replacing the actor with Christopher Walken. Obviously the answer is all bad. Everyone. But but you can you pick a specific one. And then two, what are particular lines that would benefit from a walk-in style delivery?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Indeed. So that is the walk-in awards, and I think that this movie is a treasure trove of the the best kind of walk-in award, which is an ordinary line, but the actor puts a spin on it. There's all sorts of great kind of under-five character actor work here that I kind of had an embarrassment of riches with. So I'm gonna try to narrow them down. We talked about Cali Roca, who is employed, the timer employee at the very beginning. She comes back briefly at the end, but we already mentioned a couple of her lines. But I'm I'm going to ask for the first time can a breath be a Walken Award winner? Because at one point, at the very beginning, when Una brings her boyfriend in, and her boyfriend, I I wrote made a note because I did a quite double a double take of him like, Have I seen him before? But then I realized this is what I wrote. He looks like Matthew Perry and Nathan Fillion entered the Seth Brundle teleportation chamber in the fly and merged. That's what it looks like to me. But so he goes in there, and um, of course, we we've already established that Una has brings her boyfriends to this because she wants to know right away, Am I wasting my time with this guy? Is he the one? So she's doing this with this guy. And Cali Roka, the timer employee, turns to him and says, First time here? And he goes, Yeah, like really tentatively. And then she does this like cleansing breath where she just goes like that, saying, like, just calm down. And that made me laugh. Uh, just the way she did that breath. That was a very walk-in-y breath, I think. And then later, as they're towards the end as they're leaving, she's talking to another customer, and she just says, keep on ticking, which I just liked, that little touch there. And then the last one to answer your question, of like who would be improved with walking in the role. Um, and you know, the easy answer is everybody, of course, but I'm gonna pick one specific one, which is another really great, and I don't want to take credit away from the guy. The guy and his name is literally Guy, that's his character's name, and the actor's name is Christopher May. So I want to give him some credit. He only has like two or three lines, and it's the bit where when she's dating a series of guys and they're outside the restaurant, which by the way is another thematic choice, another thematic thing from the film with the buzzer where they go and okay, good. You got that one down, good. But he's super boring, like he just delivers it monotone and he gets across really quickly, and he just goes like romance has never been a priority for me. I just really the way he he's says it says it. So I think if Walken played that role, it would have had an entirely different spin of like wow, this guy's the weirdest son of a bitch I've ever seen in my life. So it would rather than be boring, it would be this guy's gonna murder me later. So that's that's excellent casting. So that's my Walken Awards. Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:37

As far as walk-in awards go, I do not have nearly as robust a list. Um but I will say I so I think I think purely from a shock value cameo, it would have been awesome if Walken was the manager from the scene where they go to get their timers removed. Just because like as it was, it was a very funny bit because like she's like, I got it, you gotta I you need to talk to my manager, and then the manager is like clearly like 10 years younger. That was funny. But imagine if it was Walken, and then and then he has that line where he's like, you know, are you sure are you sure about this mistake you're about to make or something like that? Like that would have been a great walk in line, you know. But of course, obviously, the actual line needs to be Mikey's thing about boobs, uh, which comes which comes from the moment where she realized that she is in fact dating a 22-year-old because he's just like he's just like, what's up, what's up with boobs that like point in different directions? Yeah, they're like lazy eyes. I don't even know if I remember the line well enough to do a walk in impersonation, but it would have been fantastic in Walkins' voice. I would agree. But I guess you don't know which one to look at.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Yeah, there you go. That's good. The lawyer talking, it just occurred to me we we've missed the obvious the obvious choice. For the walk-in on part.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

What is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

The painfully with the music producer, right? Oh, that's gonna be walking. Yeah, and he's gonna have a cow, he's gonna have a cowbell on his hand. He gotta have a cowbell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

That's a very different movie. But that would have been honestly. So you know what'd been amazing if just simply like it's walking, it's not played for laughs, but he just like sets the cowbell down and like goes to talk to them, you know? Yes, right, exactly. Right? Like you don't you don't make a big deal about it, you don't do any of his lines. He just like he's just like, Oh, yeah, oh my daughter, it's good to see you, you know. Yeah, that would have been that would have been a good one. I haven't walking, but you know, another another argument for the budget being actually a million.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:43

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, or maybe they tried and yeah, they just didn't have the money to get somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Ken, do you have any walken award nominees? Uh the only one, and you know, the he could also be a candidate for a walk in portrayal, but Dutch the the uh retiree in the he's got some great lines, he's got some good lines, and so there's one there's one where where Steph says, How's it hanging, Dutch? This is down to my knees, Angel.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:09

Which I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

That is a that would be a great walk and spin.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:13

Yeah, I'm telling you, like there needs to be an old Dutch movie. That guy was awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He was really good.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

All right, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

So did we do it? I think we did it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:21

Oh, wait, I forgot to hit record.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

So wait, yeah. So wait, Ken, are you saying that our timer is reach is zeroing out? Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

It's clicking down. How many themes?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

We're bringing it all together, Dead O'Ring all together.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

Oh, should I should we have a timer running across?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

Yeah, we should we should do that, yeah. Right. Are we each other's soulmates? I think we clearly click that'd be weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

There you go. There's another uh uh uh uh subplot for your show, Dead O polyamory. How's that work timeless? Right, yeah, no, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:58

That would be at least one episode. Absolutely. That would be a great that would be a great reveal, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

Like you think you you your your timer goes off and then it goes off, yeah, and then it goes off again. Yeah, and there's a third person you're like, what do we do now? Yeah, yeah. Love us growing.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

Or there's just like there's just like the you know the people that just fall in love all the time and it's just like going off every day. Like all right, so yeah, so Ken, would you say we should we should trust us? Yeah, we should absolutely trust us.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

Yeah, I would seek this out. It's really it's really worth a watch. It's it's yeah, it's it's really entertaining. It's like I said, I think it's really thoughtful about how it approaches this stuff, and the screenplay is really well done.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

I actually think this might be a rare case where you might actually enjoy it more if you know it doesn't have the fairy book rom-com ending. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're not let down by that. It's not like it has a sad ending, it just doesn't have the conventional ending. Yeah, yeah, agreed. Yeah. So cool. Yeah, I concur. This was this was this was very entertaining, and it's just it's a well-made movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

Like crap. Performances are first rate. Well made, well written.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:08

Worth mentioning because we're usually treading in shallower waters here. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like this is this this feels like a Hollywood movie, but yeah, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

And it doesn't surprise me at all that you know, we mentioned the actors, you know, didn't go on to as as much fame or as much success as they should have. But I guess it's not surprising that the one who did is the screenwriter and a director.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

I could easily I could easily see, you know, especially in a Marvel context, saying, like, give us some of that time or energy in some of these scenes in between the action scenes to make them breathe and make them live.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:43

Yeah, you know, well, especially like like the WandaVision, you know, correlation is really interesting. Because like in both cases, it's like a very normal world that isn't normal. And that's right, yeah, right. Yeah, clearly she excels on that. So that's pretty neat. Yeah, yeah. See, now you're finding the thematic connections, Tedo. See, is that okay, sure. Yeah, yes, yes, I am.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:06

Also, I I would like everyone to know that I don't actually think Jack Johnson is a deep lyricist. I think I think we understood. Okay, I just wanna know, I just want to make them an official disclaimer. I just gonna go at the beginning, middle, and of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

That's gonna be like all open. Yeah. Right. You're gonna have to run it across the bottom of the screen.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:23

I also I also don't enjoy John Mayer or Ryan Adams. So you know, just make putting that out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

Fair enough. But Bonnie Bear, you're totally a whore for Bonnie Bear.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:33

He's got an interesting vocal quality. I haven't really paid.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

Excellent. This has been your dead o moment. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:42

So are we doing that now? Because I yeah, I'm down for a moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

Yeah, it'd be like 60 minutes. Just give him, yeah, give him a minute at the end of the podcast to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

Yeah, we'll just let him get bonus, bonus content.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Nope. Timer kick ticking down.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Yep. Oh, hey, themes. We're back to theme. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

All right, take us out, Ken. All right, guys. This has been a blast. Uh, and this has been No Really Trust Us. And so until next time, uh, we will see you later.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

Thanks for listening. If you've got a movie that you love and you think more people should know about, drop us online at no really trust us at gmail.com or on Instagram at No Really Trust Us. Don't forget to rate and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.