The Uncanny Valley
Regular discussion of horror media. Movies, shows, books - we'll cover it all. Pack a bag, put on some shoes you don't mind getting messy, and join us in The Uncanny Valley.
The Uncanny Valley
UV 36 - The Dead Zone
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The one where Chris gets in an accident and Charlie runs for politics.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you think see when the Winnie the Pooh books were being wrote, did people use the term Pooh? Because I feel like that's got to be a long-standing term. But why would you name your lovable character after Fecal Matter?
SPEAKER_04I don't know, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_00Like even in Kingdom Hearts, Pooh's there and he keeps going, Oh, I'm just Pooh. And it's like that's that's such a comical sentence.
SPEAKER_04Oh, it is pretty funny, to be fair.
SPEAKER_00So he's like, who's Pooh? And he's like, Oh, me.
SPEAKER_04I'm Pooh. Yeah, I'm Pooh, I'm the one.
SPEAKER_00And it's not your even more fucked up, Winnie the Pooh. His name's not Winnie. And he's not a Pooh. He's a bear. He's Pooh the Bear. He's a Pooh Bear.
SPEAKER_06He is. So who's Winnie? He is. No, he's Pooh. He's both. I don't think he's ever does he go by the term Winnie?
SPEAKER_04I don't think like. Really. But technically.
SPEAKER_00Or do you think like his name is Winnie? And like he had some embarrassing accident in high school, and he's been named Pooh by like everyone in 100 acre woods.
SPEAKER_02Winnie the Pooh Bear. Oh no, that is what it is.
SPEAKER_00That's why he doesn't wear trousers. He has PTSD from Wow.
SPEAKER_03On that note, welcome to the Uncanny Valley. We're talking about the dead zone from 1983 today, directed by David Cronenberg.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, Christianity. I have one further question. Can a bear poo itself? Yeah. But if it pooes, it's it's just out and about. So surely it couldn't poo itself. Surely you the terror like the action of pooing yourself requires there to be trousers.
SPEAKER_06Diarrhea.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but he's still not pooing himself, he's still having diarrhoea outwards.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but it could I hate this. It could like drip down the sides of the butt.
SPEAKER_00I think that just happens if you're a bit like they've got like torque and brussels back there for cheeks. It's getting stuck, man.
SPEAKER_03Well, then they naturally poo on themselves. I don't know what you want from me.
SPEAKER_00Would that be considered them pooing themselves?
SPEAKER_04I say so. Poor guys.
SPEAKER_00No wonder we're so angry all the time.
SPEAKER_04It's like a lion with a thorn in its paw, but it's a bear with poop on its butt.
SPEAKER_00A lion with a a thorn in his ass?
SPEAKER_04A lion with a thorn in its paw.
SPEAKER_06It's a fable. It's a fable?
SPEAKER_03How do you not know how do you know about raid raid whatever internet, but you don't know about the lion that has a thorn in its paw?
SPEAKER_00Because I'm not typically encountering many lines in my day-to-day life.
SPEAKER_04It's a never mind. Let's just move past it.
SPEAKER_00What's the fable here?
SPEAKER_03It's a the lion can't. It doesn't realize it has a thorn in it. It's well it does, but no one else realizes the lion's really angry, and then a mouse comes along and realizes that it's angry because it has a thorn in its fall at a place that it can't actually reach itself, so the mouse takes it out, and then it's a fable about how people aren't what they seem or how they present.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but in that situation, that mouse is very stupid. That was a bad decision from the mouse. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_06I'm not eating, he's a carnivore. Well, he didn't. But he will have.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, what a great story.
SPEAKER_00What's a what's your general thoughts on the street?
SPEAKER_04This movie's great. I really like this movie.
SPEAKER_00Why why do you think this is great?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm getting that you didn't like this.
SPEAKER_00It's Cronenberg in it.
SPEAKER_03Uh it is, yeah. And it's it's about a a presidential assassination, basically, by the end of it, which is incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but Stephen King, he's always he's always been that kind of guy. Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03He did uh 119268, whatever that one's called.
SPEAKER_00Is that not supposed to be written? Is that that's also like a kind of time travel ish one, is it not? Is that another JFK assassination?
SPEAKER_04That is the one, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I wonder why that's his fascination, but Chris, what do you what do you think makes this uh a good film? What what what do you enjoy from this?
SPEAKER_03The there are a lot of good performances. It sits really well with Christopher Watkin's character. It's not I wouldn't call it outwardly remarkable, it just it does everything it's doing very well. I enjoyed a lot of the moment to moment of it. Uh even now I'm watching him, he starts on this roller coaster at the start of the movie and then it just gets a headache. And there's like this guy doesn't have a good time. None of anything that happens in this movie is good to him. He says goodbye to his lady, and then a truck hits him and he goes into a coma for five years. His parents refuse to tell him that his ex-girlfriend married someone else. There's a lot of good drama to kick it off, and then I like I like the way the visions are played. Uh and I feel like beyond maybe the uh the kid's father with the ice, you know, I would have liked to see how that dad interact or reacted in that situation more. But beyond that, I was very happy with all the little ins and outs. I thought that something different was happening in the movie until later on, but I I liked that it kept me guessing. I sort of assumed it was a a god told me to situation where people were being possessed by a singular person.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you thought it was like a a body hopping?
SPEAKER_04I did at first, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, I also got a little inklings of this, but okay, Chris. What do you say about this movie? Okay. This is Cronenberg doing what he does when he doesn't have an idea he came up with on drugs and a very cool practical effects department. This is very unfocused, paced, incredibly strange, and has far too many ideas and wants that none of them are fully fleshed out, and it becomes just a pile of mush with the nice odd scene. Because this isn't this there's no focus in this film, Chris. We have it starts off that this is like a hallmark amnesia romance drama movie, okay, and then it becomes like a weird detective horror film, okay? And then it's like uh it's like the beginning of Doctor Sleep, where it's like a man getting his life back together, and then it becomes a moral question think piece, but the entire movie rather than focus on being a movie and having narrative structure and characters I give a fuck about has went, well, put imagery to try and build up to this question at the end, which is does have cool imagery, which is a cliche question, alright? It's like very surface textbook moral quandary, but the movie seems to think that this is like a mind-blowing thing to pull off. Would you kill Hitler? Fucking Doctor Who did this.
SPEAKER_03I don't think it's treating it like it's a monumental story choice.
SPEAKER_06I think it's just It's the finale of the movie.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you can have a finale where the point is more about the character going through it than the context in the story. And I liked uh it's sort of the culmination of this guy's story, you know, like he was keeping this relationship with his ex alive just enough, but his story led him in a way that she was able to marry someone else because he was ultimately gonna end up dying here. It's all about this one character, and I agree that the movie around it doesn't keep a steady structure enough. I wish Tom Scarrett was in a bit more of the movie as the sheriff. But I liked all of it. I liked that it uh it felt like it didn't have a good structure, but it didn't feel paced poorly to me. And I like that it took you through all the time.
SPEAKER_00Are you telling me, Chris, that his scenes where he's yapping to that little hikikomori boy with the fucking helmet ass haircut is not minoringly dull, and then they go all by the wavers. Also, remember how we mentioned when you came out of that coma, seemingly like a year or two ago, because you a lot has progressed in your life, but there was a mayoral election. Yeah, that's somehow still happening, by the way. And then we need to listen to the guy who's a nut job who we don't see much of until the end of the film, and then they're like, by the way, he's actually a nut job, so he's the bad guy. Everyone, look out, and then the other guy who shows up and is like, I'm kind of a nice guy, and they're like, Oh, but you were maybe cheating on your wife, so you're now out of the film.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, all right, fair.
SPEAKER_04It's not the structure movie.
SPEAKER_03I had fun with it. I don't know what to tell you.
SPEAKER_00Chris, tell me how how, aside from the five years, okay, because five years is a given, how long is this movie supposed to take place?
SPEAKER_03What's the time in the Oh, I take it like not not much time after the uh coma, because it it's snowing the whole time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but also his mum is fine, and then his mum dies, and then he seems to get a new house in a different part of the city.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's after he gets shot. I assumed he got a settlement from the city because a cop wrote a civilian and then the civilian got shot. So he probably got a good chunk of change out of that from wherever he was at and could buy a house pretty easily.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I feel like with the guy that's famous for being the psychic is hanging out with the police and then runs into the murder suspect's house and then gets shot by his mother. That's not really the police fault, that's partially his fault.
SPEAKER_03It is the police's fault.
SPEAKER_00Also, can I can I another little side thing here that's gonna piss me off? This does not feel like Castle Rock whatsoever. Castle Rock is a small town off of a big motorway that has like grumpy old ass mechanics, but the only reason that mechanic stays in business is because he's the only guy in the town, this is referencing Kujul, by the way, that can actually do the job properly. If people want to go anywhere, they need to get like a coach bus over days. This is this is the fucking suburbs. Why is this me or debate such a big thing?
SPEAKER_03It doesn't feel like Castle Rock. I'm trying to Does he move? He doesn't move out of Castle Rock, right?
SPEAKER_00He doesn't, and then he's surprised when his missus with another man shows up, but he's like, Oh, a fan fancy meeting weekend.
SPEAKER_03That's weird. You'd figure in Castle Rock everyone would know who moved aware pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like you'd see the first, and he's like, Look at all this mail I've been getting from everyone, everyone that knows what all 200 people that know about your ass. Yeah, very dogs and kids. Well, look for them, that shit. They're your neighbors. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03This was also produced by Deborah Hill, who was uh who was John Carpenter's wife and was his producing partner in a lot of movies.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, was she not she she was she produced a lot of this stuff, did she not?
SPEAKER_03Most, if not all, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but does that producer credit mean that she worked on this film, or was it it's him and his wife's bank account and he paid for the film, so she also paid for the film? So she's no no no.
SPEAKER_03She's he's talked a lot about how she's very instrumental to his process. She helps him a lot.
SPEAKER_00She must have been the only good thing in his movie because after our passing, he released the fucking Shrouds. It's the worst film in the history of mankind and has all the same issues as this as a weird, uh we'll say a unique looking man, but is definitely too old to be playing the part doing weird shit and having affairs, and it has no story structure.
SPEAKER_04Interesting. Maybe I'd like the shrouds.
SPEAKER_00No, no, you wouldn't.
SPEAKER_03How would you feel if I came back to you and I said I like the shrouds?
SPEAKER_00I would assume you are talking out of your wrath. I know one other person that has seen the shrouds and they gave it two stars, and I confronted them in an elevator about it, and every point they had I shut down instantly and was like, no. The main argument for the shrouds was, well, I think it's good that Croningberg uh paints himself as a weird little guy. And I'm like, yeah, but all the weird little shit that he does is like not stuff I would ever want to know about, and is very strange to be putting in the public when the metaphors of the shrouds are real life people and you're saying some really strange things about them. You're a weird, perverted old man.
SPEAKER_03Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Do you want do you want to know what the what a huge like the secondary plot of the shrouds is like a weird metaphor for?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, tell me.
SPEAKER_00See how his wife died, yeah?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The movie is about a weird old guy that does strange shit that his wife died, and then there's a whole the whole subplot is how he really wants to fuck his dead wife's sister, and they have a lot of very awkward sex throughout the movie.
SPEAKER_04Weird.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Not good.
SPEAKER_06Very strange, very uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00Man should stop making movies, but my Cronenberg Shrouds rant aside. Chris, what the fuck? I have not seen Exodus Sins. I have not seen what was the one he made after that, but before the Shrouds that he teased his body horror, and people watched it and went, This is shit.
SPEAKER_01That's the one with uh Oh the history Christian story.
SPEAKER_00The what the fu it's got some pretentious ass fucking name.
SPEAKER_03We both know what you're talking about. I think Crimes of the Future, is that it?
SPEAKER_00Crimes of the Future. That's it. I knew it was uh a four-word title. But see, that's the problem with Cronenberg. See, when he wants to make a movie, he's bad at the movie part, he's good at the strange ideas part. Because Scanner, cool ideas, bad movie.
SPEAKER_03Video I didn't realize you do not like Cronenberg.
SPEAKER_00I I have a tumultuous relationship because I do really like video drone, even though I I I would agree that is not structured whatsoever, but I think it works because it's like dreamy. Crash.
SPEAKER_03I gotta watch video drum.
SPEAKER_00Crash has no structure either. But Crash is weird enough to keep you invested the entire time.
SPEAKER_03Crash seems crazy as fuck, and that's another weird fetish movie.
SPEAKER_00It is a fetish movie, and it's not as crazy as you would think it is. It's just a lot of car crashes and then like people masturbating each other off.
SPEAKER_04Great.
SPEAKER_00Again, okay, I'm watching it in the background as we speak. This man, okay, in this short period of time, his mother comes to visit him in hospital, and clearly she's not that sick because it's been five years and he doesn't notice a difference in her age. His click isn't oh you guys look older or you look frail, it's oh I don't have bandages. And then like five minutes later, she's like in the fucking hospital bed dying.
SPEAKER_01She's old. It happens.
SPEAKER_00She's out and about right now. What do you mean? Look at her, she's fine.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know, man.
SPEAKER_06She's just getting jealous that Johnny was getting all the attention in bed. Well, maybe she just had like a bad heart. So Chris, where did his dad go?
SPEAKER_00What happened to his dad? What do you mean? Like, okay, he's staying with his dad, okay. Yeah. And then and then his ex the uh now that really loves to flaunt the child and marriage with this other guy very strangely, very uncover, like oh, this is this when she comes over to fuck town. Yeah, she does it, and then she shows up uninvited one day, which is already strange enough.
SPEAKER_03I was also curious where the dad was.
SPEAKER_00And then okay, she comes in and she's like, I've came over and put the baby to bed now. Let's fuck. And then the dad comes in, okay. Okay. Like 20 seconds later. What have you been up to? And he's like, We were definitely not fucking that wink wink. This is a married woman, this is a small neighborhood. You will know her husband. Strange enough, as is.
SPEAKER_03Can't say that to you to her, your dad.
SPEAKER_00But then the dad he goes, Oh, it's nice to see you eating like a family, and he's fucking Johnny looks at him like that's a step too far, man. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02Not all. He kills the whole vibe by saying that.
SPEAKER_00I I think her vibes weird. I think the dad's the only normal guy. He just came in, was like, hey guys, and he's like, I just we just she just had an affair, by the way. And then he's like, Oh, you guys are cute. He's like, whoa, oh dad, none of that.
SPEAKER_03I agree, but it's interesting, it's an interesting emotional dynamic. Not that they really explore it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but that's the thing, they don't explore it, and this annoying me because I'm like, is the book as fucked as this? Does it have so many like almost stories that just kind of stop and start?
SPEAKER_03I wonder, I started reading some of the Wikipedia summary, and it looks like they focus a little bit on Martin Sheen's character. Like they open up with this main character having a psychic headache as a kid, and then they cut to Martin Sheen's character like killing an animal or something.
SPEAKER_00Is this Frank Frankie? Freddie? Dod?
SPEAKER_01Uh the the Congressman.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I thought you were referencing the serial killer plot line, which is by far the most interesting part of this film, and it is, it is 20 minutes of the runtime. And it's also that Torchwood episode where they like have flashes of crimes that happen.
SPEAKER_04It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But like that's see, that was why I said I told you you you would have to do this before Kudrell, because the opening of Kudrell is not really related to Kudrell whatsoever, it's related to children in Castle Rock having fear of the dead serial killer. I think his name's Frankie Dodd.
SPEAKER_03Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00So it's like that's what it's and there was no need in it. So if you read the book, it's like they reference a cupboard being scary, and later on the kid references a cupboard being scary. I think it's supposed to imply shining-wise that Frankie Dodd is like maybe a ghost in the town, but like it's never it's never done enough that you could grapple onto it.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00Uh it seems like in the book.
SPEAKER_03It seems like in the book they have the whole Dodd storyline that closes, and then they cut back to Stilton, and then they start doing a whole Greg Stilton plot line. There's an FBI agent investigating him, the FBI agent dies, and then they cut back to Johnny. So it seems like they sort of do a fake out. With a third main character.
SPEAKER_06Do you think Johnny has the shining? I didn't think about it before you said that, but he must.
SPEAKER_03Because like this is especially if in the book he as a kid had some sort of ability.
SPEAKER_00But do you think he had this ability beforehand? And that's what this the little roller coaster. Also, what a pitiful fucking roller coaster. That's your date. Horrible. Absolutely.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00It goes. And also there's no one else on it. It's just used to.
SPEAKER_03No, it's quiet, it's slow, it's doesn't do many loops.
SPEAKER_00King Johnny's over here gunning the entire run. I'm rolling back. They said he's like, Whoa, I don't think it affected me that it's not that extreme, my man. Why is this like uh linked to your um like front ending and 18-wheeler truck? A contemplative creak from your chair.
SPEAKER_03Uh maybe I just won't justify that with a response.
SPEAKER_00For us, there's like see that's the thing, this is what elevates me above the shrouds. The whole police detective stuff. Very fucking sick. I like it's cool. It's ten minutes of the fucking movie, but see the dynamic between the two police officers and him. Someone who knows what happened because he did it, the guy who has no idea what happened, and him who is about to figure out what happened. That's a cool trio, that's a cool character dynamic. It's a shame, but the very next scene is him going, it was Dodd, it was Dodd, as Dodd is standing next to him, literally behind him. You fucking idiot, Johnny.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think I don't think he really knows what's happening. He's just sort of in his days. I think they should have written the sheriff character to investigate what's his face, Stilson. You know, they could have rewritten the movie so that his character is suspicious of Stilson and gets killed or something like that. Uh they could have intertwined everything a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00That's the thing I don't get, okay. So the the setup that's Miro candidate is like everyone calls him Trump, and Stephen King himself has said, yes, I've I've written about Trump before read the dead zone as a like as a haha, this is Trump. Okay, but aside from blackmailing that one guy, uh does he do anything bad until like he has the vision of um looking a random country that we do not know what that one is?
SPEAKER_04Well, I don't know the way he's talking to the guy.
SPEAKER_01He's he said he's had a vision.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but see that's interesting. Does he have the ability? We won't fucking know. We'll never know because the film doesn't tell us.
SPEAKER_03That is interesting. Yeah, that's true. I didn't think about it that way. I just saw him as crazy.
SPEAKER_00For a character though, I do like Wise Wisner, Wiser, Wise Wiser seems the German doctor. The German Doctor, which I I do like that they went, okay, there's gonna be ten flashbacks in this movie. We have the budget for all of them, and we're gonna spend it on one World War II flashback, which is insane looking, and then the rest will just have Johnny coming a little.
SPEAKER_04It is a crazy flashback.
SPEAKER_03They must have had a World War II movie filming nearby or something.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I think it was just where the budget went.
SPEAKER_04That's crazy, that's a bad idea.
SPEAKER_00Or like Cronenberg just really wanted to do a war scene, and this was his one opportunity. And I guess it's a sort of X-Men. It ties back to the would you kill Hitler question. I get that. Okay. But also, this guy shows that you don't actually even have to kill Hitler, you could just inconvenience Hitler a bit and maybe die doing it.
SPEAKER_03He does, yeah. You know, I I take it to be uh the the world, the universe kind of telling him that he didn't need to take a life to achieve his goal. But he had to be willing to make that sacrifice before that revealed itself to him.
SPEAKER_00It is it's the Jesus thing, because we do the oh, the mother's a hardcore Christian, and you see the Bible things, it's the martyrdom thing. Again, it's so it's so cliche as an ending. I feel like the ending kind of comes out of no like there's no it would be more interesting if we started from a third of the movie and of Johnny. Say say we have the first third, him getting his powers and the police detective shit, and him realizing oh, I could have saved someone and I didn't. Because at no point Johnny does the detective thing perfectly, no one dies because of his inactions that he doesn't know about yet. He does that job perfectly fine and then goes in a fucking huff about it because he gets shot. See if we'd set it up, okay. So Johnny doesn't act on a vision, and that results in someone dying, and he feels guilt about that, and then his actions throughout the movie or him trying to stop things and realizing he can do it and becoming more deranged, it would make sense why he then takes a bolt action rifle from what seems to be his like a child's room and goes to shoot a political candidate in front of the crowd.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. He couldn't have just stabbed him quietly.
SPEAKER_00Well, how do you get that close to I was I hated that he didn't load the gun before it went to a Mate oral candidate in a small town? Well fair down, Chris in the 80s. Exactly, in the eighties? I'm not fucking gonna have no security.
SPEAKER_03Just go to a liquor store on a Saturday.
SPEAKER_00Completely unnecessary. And he he has that fucking talk with Wisner, and he's like, but what what but surely if you tried to kill him, you would never make it out alive. And it's like, no, if you went back in time and could kill a baby Hitler, you probably could get away with it in like the 19 like 1900, 1910.
SPEAKER_03So imagine like you live the rest of your life knowing I killed baby Hitler, I killed my baby.
SPEAKER_00Wait, no, see, the way to get around it is you draw a little mustache on him before you take him out. So that's that guy.
SPEAKER_03What guy? You go back and downfall doesn't exist, no media exists that had Hitler in it anymore.
SPEAKER_00But even then, the would you kill like Hitler is a shortcut.
SPEAKER_03Doctor Who episode is called Let's Kill Stalin.
SPEAKER_00I would do what I would watch it, see if the next season of Doctor Who pulls a Let's Kill Stalin. Infinitely more interesting, I would say.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Okay, see the would you kill baby Hitler question. Okay, it doesn't even work logically because it's a bootstrap paradox, or is it a grandfather paradox?
SPEAKER_03Grandfather paradox, because you can't grandfather.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I don't know which one, but it's the one that predicates itself. It's the one in the time machine, right?
SPEAKER_00Where you expect is kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, is it not?
SPEAKER_03You're I think yeah, yeah, I do believe you're right. Okay.
SPEAKER_00But gives a grant if you went back to Kill Hitler, there would be no Hitler for you to want to go back to Kill Hitler. It's a stupid question.
SPEAKER_03Which, like, best case scenario, you've created a fucked alternate timeline. Where now Germany has time travel in World War II. They've found their time mission.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but would they ever have gotten to the point that they were in World War II without Hitler?
SPEAKER_06Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_00Maybe maybe there wouldn't have been a World War II. Maybe everyone would have been chill.
SPEAKER_04Everyone's taken over by Germans from the future.
SPEAKER_00Was that not an episode of like Family Guy or American Dad?
SPEAKER_03I've been sliders, I'm pretty sure.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but the big question, Chris, would you kill me if you have?
SPEAKER_03Yes, I would. But I would kill myself after. I couldn't live with killing a baby. Even if it was baby Hitler, it wouldn't be yelling hate speech at me, it would just be a baby.
SPEAKER_00It would be very funny if it was. Well, CV always had that little mustache.
SPEAKER_03It was always just really angry on speed.
SPEAKER_00But see, I feel like in that situation you should kill his father. Surely that gets around it. But would you take an innocent life? Like, yeah, but if it's an adult, oh he's had his time, I suppose.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, and like innocent life, it becomes a trolley problem at that point. Although, to be honest, the trolley problem, I wouldn't touch it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's it. They always go, well, inaction is an action, but like it's not if I just pretend it didn't happen.
SPEAKER_03I didn't do that. Yeah, I didn't put them there. I didn't put a train on a track with people tied to it, man. Don't put that on me.
SPEAKER_00Because even in the situation where you pull it to kill one person, your actions killed one person.
SPEAKER_03Right. I'd rather let six people die than actively kill one person. I would like up uh like comfort them and say, I'm so sorry that happened to you. This is all horrible. I don't know why they chose you to live.
SPEAKER_00You had an interview before death. Why you? What have you done? Oh, maybe that's a next but what what if what if like that was one really good guy and it was six bad people? What do you mean? What if they were like what if it was six neo-Nazis on a track and one for the one good guy boy that is going to college very soon? No, it's yeah, it's going towards him.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's just a good time that I get to kill six neo-Nazis.
SPEAKER_00No, the train is going towards the one guy. Would you pull it to kill the six people?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. If I know they're that bad. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If it's going towards the six people, would you pull it to kill the one guy?
SPEAKER_03No. Are the six people like really shitty people, like you said? Like if it's Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump and I think most people would video record that and post it online.
SPEAKER_00That's a different situation.
SPEAKER_03That's true. Yeah, so some helicopter would get to me before I could pull that lever. Some sniper in a helicopter.
SPEAKER_00I think we've gotten uh too far away. Can we talk about my boy Christopher Walken in that black coat? That black coat, motherfucker.
SPEAKER_03Oh, he looks great. That is the most interesting part of the movie when he's doing the detective stuff. He's got that great fit.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude.
SPEAKER_03The lighting in the movie is way more interesting.
SPEAKER_00See that shot where he's having the flashback with the corpse, and it's him stood behind Dodd and the woman he's about to kill in both of their jackets are like mirrored with each other. Like they're standing kind of parallel across a gazebo. Oh that was I was like Cronenberg did something with because that's the thing. See, Cronenberg he never has interesting visual direction in his movies. The visuals are interesting, but for the most, his movies are just uh like naturally coloured rooms and some guys having a yap.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_00I will say video drone kind of upset a little bit, but you're working with TVs, so there kind of has to be a little a little pizzazz in the lighting. You need to have the TV glowing on the characters because if not, what are you doing as a career? You just pack up and go home.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know what how TVs go.
SPEAKER_00But even on this, I feel like see if you gave any director who was like, I'm gonna make a good adaptation of the dead zone, they would make those visuals be trippy as hell. It would do something to differentiate it from the and also all the flashbacks were in snow as well. What is happening in this film? Where's where's the times going?
SPEAKER_03Uh well at least this flashback is someone who just got murdered, the one that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to think how the leather moral quandary could relate maybe to the ice rink, where he stopped that kid dying and some of the other kids, but two other kids still died.
SPEAKER_03So would this be it looked like seven kids died in the in the vision.
SPEAKER_04Again, to be fair, if you put all of the kids fell.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you put all like an entire school worth of kids playing hockey on some thin ice, of course we're going to die.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's not abnormal. I don't know if that's in the rest of the world, but at least in America, there are places where it's normal to just be skating on ice in your region.
SPEAKER_00Probably not going to be as smart as global warming continues, but I've seen it happen once in Glasgow and it was like an event in one of our parks. But even then, the water, like the lake was small enough that you would be if you fell in, someone would get you. Like it wouldn't be too much of an issue. You would probably have frostbite. You would certainly need to go to hospital. But I can only think of two lakes in my nearby area that freeze over in the winter, and one is the one that people skate on, sometimes, very sometimes, and the other one is ones that have very big signs going, if you fall in this, you will die, and no one walks on it, and that's the only one I've been on.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, well, that's scary.
SPEAKER_00But to my defense, okay, Verse, in this lake, there's a little tiny structure in the centre, and it's small enough that you look at it and you're like, What the fuck is that? Because that's not a natural little structure. And I saw the frozen lake, I heard it crunch as I stood on it, but I was like, I have to know what this little thing is, what this tiny little guy is. It was a little baby lighthouse, it was very cute. Aw, that's great. But also then I wonder what who benefits from this? No one's saying this aside from me, and I could die.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. Someone went out there and put it there, I guess.
SPEAKER_00It's a very nice lake. They have swans you can hand feed.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's very sweet.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever been you don't get swans too much in New York, I'd imagine.
SPEAKER_04No, no, we have a lot of ducks in the park. I don't think we have any swans.
SPEAKER_00Do you get any swans?
SPEAKER_04Uh I can't think of any.
SPEAKER_00Have you seen a swan IRS?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, I've seen a swan.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever had a swan walk up to you and it's full height?
SPEAKER_04No, I can't say I have.
SPEAKER_00Dude, those fuckers are scary. Holy shit, Chris, they're like four foot tall. They're huge.
SPEAKER_03That's terrifying. I don't like that.
SPEAKER_00The problem is there's like 30 swans in this lake, okay. So if you bring out the bread and we see, oh, he's he's giving that out, they will crowd you, and then it's okay when they crowd you, because they're kind of polite and they'll infight for the bread for who takes turns. So you don't need to worry about that. But see when the bread is run out and you have to go, excuse excuse me, excuse me, throw this army that has surrounded you, they are not happy, Chris. And I know I could fight maybe three swans. I think I could take on three swans. Past that, I think I'm I'm in for a rough time.
SPEAKER_03You don't think you could take two by the neck and use them as flails?
SPEAKER_00See, that would be my thing, but once I've got two, I could kick another one. But then but I'm preoccupied at that point.
SPEAKER_03Why can't you hit swans with the swans you're holding?
SPEAKER_00Because think about it, Chris. Feathers break the wind. You couldn't get good momentum on them.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's so true.
SPEAKER_00See, they flap, you've got wind resistance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, you you got me there.
SPEAKER_00Unless that is the tactic. Okay, what you do is you swing. See when they flap, you counter-swing to get their flap off it.
SPEAKER_06You think you could fly?
SPEAKER_00If I I mean swans don't really fly. Swans really don't fly too well. I'd say maybe if I got two of them. Duct taped like a good nine together, I could get a good glider and go.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. That's what we should do.
SPEAKER_04Duct tape them by the neck.
SPEAKER_00And then, but then you but how do you steer?
SPEAKER_03It just kinda it's like a helicopter, it just kind of goes.
SPEAKER_00But if you go down too fast, you just plummet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, it was worth it.
SPEAKER_00Chris, what what else is there to talk about this movie? I feel like I've ranted about every single part of it.
SPEAKER_03I'm seeing a lot of your criticisms the more we talk about it. Because usually we there's like a core plot thread or a core structure point that we can latch on to that we talk about through the whole episode. But it really is tough to even what I liked watching this movie is seeing this character's journey, but it uh taking a step back and being more analytical about it, it doesn't. It's just episodes of a miniseries, really. Uh and that there's moments I like. I'm seeing a moment where Martin Sheen hands Christopher Walken a badge, uh campaign promotion, and it seems like he's gonna shake his hand and see what's in his head for a second. Stuff like that is like would be good in a better movie.
SPEAKER_00But also it's also uh little plot, Fred. Okay, the doctor Weiser shows up and he's like he's like buddy with him now, which is why I like Wiser. The second he goes, you're magic, he doesn't do doctor shit anymore. He's just like okay, I'm gonna be your friend because you're going through a fucking a rough patch and you're a magic man. So I'll we'll just be we'll just collaborate from now on. Yeah, he comes up and he's like, I've been researching your power, we could reverse it if you went back to hospital. What are you talking about? What are you too where did you get this information from? What the fuck are you on?
SPEAKER_03I forgot about that. That's stupid.
SPEAKER_00He had it before the crash. We see it, and then unless it's supposed to like imply that maybe he's mentally ill and he's making all of this up and it's just like coincidences.
SPEAKER_04I don't like that. And it's just that John Travolta movie.
SPEAKER_00Is this some like are you trying to pull some sixth sense bullshit? Only it's you're not spiritual, you're a fucking nut job. Which would line up with his actions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, this movie doesn't need a twist. This is a very straightforward word. It could have that's the thing, is what this movie is trying to be is a propulsive mystery or thriller, and it's not doing either of those. The mystery thing, it does well, and then it cuts it off. Um it needs a more consistent propelling plot thread rather than a twist or some narrative trick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I need even if you gave me like a plot MacGuffin that is like he he saw in one of his fucking trips in the hospital when he was just gunning in his bed, like he saw like a a mayoral badge and something going wrong, and then he was trying to figure out throughout the movie what that could mean. Because there's two candidates, so he doesn't know who's causing the issue. And then he sees that his ex is shagging also the guy that she's fucking is just like A promo guy? He has nothing really to do with him. He just likes him.
SPEAKER_03He's just a reason for her to be around when the plot happens. I think it would have made a lot of sense to write Tom Scarrot's character as investigating this mayoral candidate, but because he's a small town sheriff, he doesn't have any authority to bring it to any higher powers, so he just tries to tell our main character about it and then either gets discredited or murdered, or something happens to him later, and our main character you know realizes he has to pick up that charge. Something like that where some character was always investigating this candidate would have helped a lot. Because it it is it doesn't help that it comes out of nowhere. And in the book, this character is present from the start.
SPEAKER_00But the thing is, I don't need an investigation. I just need something that stays cohesive across the beginning of the film, the detective portion of the film, his like life recovery and the political fucking boring ass shit that was going on until the shooting. It was what you said, it's episodes. It's like four different episodes of a character study, but we're not studying them that much because Johnny kind of seems to just be like a nice guy, aside from like trying to shoot someone.
SPEAKER_03It's a character study in well, it's it's as much of a character study as Stephen King has ever written, which is what if this happened to me? You know.
SPEAKER_00What would I do if I had the shining and some guy was fucking my wife?
SPEAKER_03That's exact and some guy was fucking my wife, and I realized that there was an evil president gonna happen. Like cool, I could do the cool and brave thing. You know, it's it is Stephen King self-insert in most of his stories. It's just a middle-aged white guy who is unremarkable and mostly reacting to the things around him rather than you know, if he has a plot or a backstory that is relevant to the story, it's more as a service to the story than the story is servicing the character in a lot of cases. So even though I do like the character study in this movie, it is mostly well what if this happened to you?
SPEAKER_00What what if you this see if my power was I could see bad things from the future, I would probably avoid the bad things. Which to be fair is what Johnny tries to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he goes too hard on with the kid and the skating, but I also get that it was gonna happen literally right after, so yeah, but did he have to vandalize that man's house? No, he didn't. And it's so funny that he apologizes for it.
SPEAKER_00Of course he didn't.
SPEAKER_03Immediately says, He was just angry if he didn't do it tactically.
SPEAKER_00Like, very simply, he could have um like took the boy aside as he's his thing, went, Oh, I've got homework for him, and went, You're gonna fucking die. Here's laxatives and have the shits in like an hour, so you can't go screen.
SPEAKER_03Here's the laxatives.
SPEAKER_00It's like down these pops.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so you're you're him in this situation. You're you're what in the kid's bedroom, you're giving him these laxatives, the dad opens the door, you're hunched over giving this kid pills. What do you say?
SPEAKER_00Um thought in a dream. But like even in that situation, I go to prison for dubious um charges. Because, like, what would you charge someone with if I if I could just say to the police, oh, he told me he had constipation earlier?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because they could test it and find out that it's laxative. So it would be a very funny situation.
SPEAKER_00I would be known as the town weirdo, but also the town think I'm a psychic guy who can stop bad things. So we'd probably give me a bit of leeway on giving a child laxatives. If it's a one-time see, if this was a recurring situation in the town, I don't think I would get away with it as much. But if it was a one-time thing, I think I could still get some some support on me.
SPEAKER_03True. I think it would have been interesting if he tried to gather the people who support him and use them to vote against this guy. You know, like if he turned around on that public support at some point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like he's got like 300 people in this town that want shit from him. See if he just was like, oh yeah, see if you vote for this guy, I'll I'll I'll work for the mayor and you guys can send me your issues and I'll try and help.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like there is probably a more reasonable solution to all of this.
SPEAKER_00And also, what was this the the black the blackmail with the other guy is weird? It's like you set me up for photos with this other woman. So if if we take him for his word he's been set up, the only photos this man this the the the bad guy has for the other candidate is that he happened to be next to a woman at some point in that ruined career.
SPEAKER_04I guess.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I yeah, I think we are exhausting this movie. It is paper thin once you really lean into it.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to think. It was very funny that his um okay. I have two notes for his physiotherapy he goes through. He sits down with the doctor, okay, and he goes, Will I be in a wheelchair for long, doctor? And he goes, Not if I have anything to say about it. The therapy will be very long. And he's like, Do you didn't see that in the script?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, very funny. He's like, Not if I have anything to say about it. And then he he gets out of like movie quote mode and goes, uh, you know what? I should tell this guy, it's gonna be pretty difficult.
SPEAKER_00And okay, immediately next up, uh, next up, he's hobbling, he's got his crutches, and the guy is it an American term for a chug to be a wank?
SPEAKER_06What a what?
SPEAKER_00Because he keeps telling them, I want to see you chugging. Which I assume he means a train. But if someone's chugging it in the UK, that means like they're they're going for it. They're they're choking the chicken.
SPEAKER_03No, never heard chugging it like that. Chugging is like drinking something, or I guess riding a train. Chugging here is usually just drinking something real fast.
SPEAKER_00Now, if someone's going for a chug, that means they're they're having a chicky wee wank. So for his physical instructor to keep shouting, I really want to see you chugging, come on, keep chugging. Very, very, very funny.
SPEAKER_04That's crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I doubt Cronenberg would even know if you put it back on now. He seems too mercking.
SPEAKER_04No, I don't think he would. I wouldn't. I didn't. It's stupid that this guy doesn't load his gun before he goes to sleep.
SPEAKER_06Huh?
SPEAKER_03He goes to sleep in the our main character goes to sleep in the place where they're having the big town hall meeting. And then he wakes up when everyone's there and then he starts loading his gun.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. Also, why is he unscrewing his gun either? Is he taking off part of the barrel to hide it? Why do we see him disassembling the rifle?
SPEAKER_03I don't remember that. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I just find it very Also, the okay, Dod, the the the Sarah, I'm I guarantee Dodd is not his name, and I've been saying it a million times, and it's gonna sound insane. How I'm pretty sure it's Dodd. Yeah, he kills himself by putting scissors in his mouth.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was nuts, and it didn't make any sense the way that he like positioned himself and his nose was touching one of the shears.
SPEAKER_00And then we see him and he's spashing blood. He's like breathing out in his stub.
SPEAKER_04And I was like, slowly too.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking when he was setting it up, I was like, oh, he's gonna stab himself in the mouth and then be like, hey, it was these nut jobs that broke into my house and fucking stabbed me. And it would be like a because no one's gonna believe the psychic and a trial. Like that was his way out. No, he just steals a police car and stabs himself to death in the mouth with a pair of scissors.
SPEAKER_03When you say he took something off a gun, do you just mean cycling the bolt?
SPEAKER_00Or was he just no, he takes out his knife and he starts unscrewing the stock, does he not? Uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I'm rewinding a little bit.
SPEAKER_00I don't I haven't seen that. It's towards the end when he takes it like weirdly out of the corner of his room. Okay. And I was like, I was okay, I don't I was I don't know the model of gun. I'm not a big gun guy. I'm like, hey, if it's an old gun, this is like the 90s, and it's probably uh his parents' gun. Maybe to disassemble it to make it shorter to hide, he would need to take it apart. But that is the only reason I can think that, or Cronenberg had a real gun and was like, hey, I'm gonna show us a real gun in one shot.
SPEAKER_03Uh I don't know. I didn't see he just checked the bolt and then grabbed some ammo because it was empty.
SPEAKER_00Oh, maybe excuse you're watching the cut down version. That's where it will be.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, uh, we didn't talk about this on the podcast, but there's a YouTube version that has cut content and oh well maybe he's setting it down now to do it.
SPEAKER_06But how long is it? Let's see. Let me get back into it. 14350.
SPEAKER_00No, that's the normal version.
SPEAKER_03It says it's cut for content at the start. That's why I didn't watch it to start with.
SPEAKER_00Okay, as much as I this is a horrible statement to put in, go to the rap scene and see if you see uh bear chest, because that will be valuable if it were gonna cut anything, it would be the Chebs.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'm watching them unscrew something, so let me before that let me what it's very starts unscrewing it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he starts that's what I mean. What is he doing?
SPEAKER_01Why would he do that? Is he taking the trigger housing off? Why would he do that?
SPEAKER_00Like maybe like that old like uh bolt rifle has like a safety on the inside, maybe it's like a really fucked gun. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Maybe he also drops a bullet, which is really funny.
SPEAKER_00Kelly he clearly doesn't know what he's doing with this fucking rifle.
SPEAKER_01So bad at this, which is really, really funny.
SPEAKER_00I think it uh it must be a real gun because when he picks it up and he he checks it, that that little metal clink it makes, oh seems real, yeah.
SPEAKER_04This is the regular version, by the way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a regular version, that's what I told you. Weird.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, dead one. He also just jumps up when he tries to kill this guy, and it's the worst way you could possibly do that. Oh, and we didn't talk about this candidate holds a baby in front of him to avoid getting shot. Very funny. Very funny way to end your story.
SPEAKER_00But see, that's I thought he was going to like shoot and then he was going to lift the baby, and I thought, oh, that's the would you kill baby Hitler question coming back? Is he going to accidentally kill the baby to kill Hitler?
SPEAKER_03No. Interesting.
SPEAKER_00No, he just gets shot and fucking dies.
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah, no, that would have been said nothing happens.
SPEAKER_00And it's like even if he didn't lift the baby, the shooting at your male oral campaign, that is not good for you. That is not going to help your presidential campaign.
SPEAKER_03No. Uh the the corpse thing looks really good when he's following the the body double.
SPEAKER_00I just the only the only practical effect in this, I will go. Hey, that's realistic. Him coming out of the coma looking pasty as shit and his lips looking like us. His lips look so bad.
SPEAKER_03His throat hurts because he needs water.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and Joe, fair fucks, because only once in my life have I gone extended periods without water, and it was pre-surgery, and it was three days, and my throat felt like the devil had fucking rammed his dick down it and came out. It was horrendous. Anytime I tried to drink any liquids, I almost threw them up.
SPEAKER_04Oh sorry. Don't worry.
SPEAKER_03No, I won't. I wanted to note uh I'm sorry about my microphone. I'm using my phone for a microphone this week. Should be back to better sound in next week.
SPEAKER_00I'd get you one of those. What's the thing that every YouTuber uses when they first start and it's like 80 pounds, but it works as like recording quality? Like is it a blue Yeti? Do people still use those?
SPEAKER_01That's what that's what I have. I have a blue snowball.
SPEAKER_00But is that do you think the kids the kids use uh uh uh uh Yeti or do you think that's uh that's like unk early game tech?
SPEAKER_03That's a good question. I think it's unk early game tech. I've had this thing for probably 10 years.
SPEAKER_00Oh fuck.
SPEAKER_03It's white and it's looking crusty.
SPEAKER_00It pisses me off because like I'm only 25, so I'm no 24, so I'm starting to hit the like what young youngins would call unk, but I grew up poor, so all the shit that I enjoy is the old shit. So I I have like I get the unk feeling on uh twofold. People are going, oh fucking who's watching video tapes? That's old as shit, and I'm like, what the fuck are I grew up with? What do you mean? I'm borderline middle twenties and I'm getting called old as shit. I went to a 90s bar in London, and everything I looked at, I was like, hell yeah, I'll I love the the that's why we get along so well. I'm an old ass, I'm an old soul. I always have been. But uh yeah, the the dead zone. Oh the title I saw a dead zone. No, you didn't. What are you talking about? There was a blank space in my vision.
SPEAKER_03No, there was no supposedly in the book, the dead zone is supposed to be the part of his brain that's not working that gives him the psychic ability. I don't know. Um I think they just wrote that in there and it was dumb.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like the there is no I assumed the dead zone would be like some trippy shit, especially with the poster.
SPEAKER_03No, you just I certainly expected more from this movie than we got. I will say that much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is not this is not Cronenberg at his peak.
SPEAKER_03And just I've heard a lot about the dead zone. It feels like a a notable thing, you know.
SPEAKER_00I think there was a remake of it that was supposed to be bad, but maybe it'll it'll go into more of the plot that we were supposed to have here. Also, but this is two hours. It's like a film made of four 15-minute sections, and it's like almost two hours?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. That's a good question. I think the remake is a TV show, which makes sense.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I like Christopher Walken, I'm Effie on Cronenberg, and I don't think this is a good film. That's that's my that's my closing statement on this.
SPEAKER_03It's alright. I like watching it, but it's not necessarily good. Uh if you want to get in touch with us, you can follow us on Instagram at the Uncanny Valley Pod. You can email us at theuncannyvalleypodcast at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, have a spooky night.