A look at gaming in November 2004

Remember staying up past midnight to grab San Andreas from a 24-hour supermarket aisle? We go back to November 2004, a month that felt like gaming’s golden hour, when bus-stop posters sold franchises and every genre had a real fight on its hands. We relive the thrill of Pro Evolution Soccer breaking past FIFA on pure gameplay, unpack why San Andreas worked despite rough edges, and trace how Red Dead Revolver’s arcade bones eventually gave way to open-world legend.

We talk Driver 3’s big talk and bigger bugs, Spider-Man 2’s still-satisfying swing that set the blueprint for Insomniac, and Burnout 3’s glorious slow-motion pileups. Konami’s 2004 run gets its flowers—Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater with its cinematic ambition, Silent Hill 4 bending horror rules, and the sheer playability of PES that still echoes through modern career modes. Along the way, we hit the UK charts that saw Need for Speed Underground 2 overtake GTA, and the living-room phenomenon of the iToy turning family gatherings into chaotic mini-arcades.

We also zoom out to the industry moves: Nintendo easing toward online on its own terms, Xbox Live accelerating the future, and PS2’s library stacking classic after classic in the same twelve months. It was the last era where choice defined your identity—GTA or Driver, PES or FIFA, sim or arcade. If you were there, you’ll feel it all over again; if you missed it, this is your map to why 2004 still matters.

Enjoy the ride, then jump into the comments with your top three from late 2004. If this hit your nostalgia nerve, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more listeners find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome To Flashback And 2004

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Hello and welcome to Flashback. The games you loved, the stories you forgot. And it's me, RGT, for episode three of our flashback show. I hope you've been enjoying these. Um and I am joined again by the legend himself, the CEO, the owner, the Lord, our saviour.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

I'll take the journey. I'll take this money. I didn't have the patience for the doll cue this week, so or Majyro or whatever it's called. I iced that. I iced that. I thought I'll do one more stint on here. Uh one last time. One last rodeo, as they say. Um I'm intrigued. Uh great choice of year, great window of time. I'm I'm oiled up. And ready to roll. Let me give you just a mindset of where 2004. 2004 is the year where you'd have pulled into a service station and alongside the extra chewing gum, you'd have seen these little green slices of thin paper that you placed on your tongue for freshness. Where are they now? Yeah, in 2004, they were everywhere.

Setting The Scene: November’s Game Flood

SPEAKER_02 1:47

All the rage. So as George said, this is November 2004, we're talking about. Um, and doing the research for this, you realised that there was quite a lot of games floating about in November 2004.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

As I said to you off there, RGT, we will be revisiting 2004 365 times.

What We Were Playing Then

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, there's there's a lot to talk about. Is that good? Yeah, it is brilliant. Um, but yeah, so like I say it's November 2004. Um, we're gonna dive into uh what we would have been playing at that current time. Um, we've got a you know a couple of news articles from the era, um, what we would have hoped to have played um in in the month ahead, um, and a bit of stingrays boot as well. So, all interesting stuff. So let's start with then, George, what we probably would have been playing at the time. So on my list here, I have got the mighty Pro Evolution Soccer 3. Um, we've got a bit of Fight Knight 2004, Red Dead Revolver, where it all started.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Um talk about that for a minute, just for two seconds.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Am I right in thinking that Red Dead Revolver wasn't actually it was being made by someone else?

Red Dead Revolver’s Odd Origins

SPEAKER_03 2:58

That's right, and Rockstar from memory and should have researched this. Oh no, I think you are a couple of legs with that. Uh, and for some reason the franchise came up because it was an evolution of one of their older games. Um not gunslinger, whatever it was, or it was a it's definitely a retread of something they'd done before. Um, Bobby would tell me, Bobby knew the law. Um, but either which way, it's obviously very different. The name set the foundations for the franchise that we now know and love, and there is something to like about this kind of like weird arcade shooter from Rockstar that they picked up and polished up. It you've got to imagine that if they really wanted to do a Western that bad, they could have just made their own name. But for some reason they got hooked up on Red Dead, uh Red Dead Revolver, uh, came to PS2, then came to Xbox as well. Um bit strange in their lineup for PlayStation 2, I'd guess. Obviously, uh with the v uh sort of luxury of hindsight, we know that we had Manhunt 1 and 2, we had the GTA trilogy there, we had the PSP ports. Yeah, uh they all look and feel a certain way. Even Midnight Club, as an example,'s got a little feeling of that rock star energy to it. This father logo at the front end doesn't feel very rock starry, but the story of like Red that may or may not be uncalled in the later games. I've I got this at launch, Red Dead originally. Did you really yeah?

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Oh yeah, I didn't come across this till later on until I was sort of collecting, and even then I I remember seeing it secondhand in a in a shop for a few, you know, a few pounds and picked it up, and then that weren't until then that clicked. I was like, oh, this is Rockstar. Oh, hang on, is this linked to Red Dead Redemption? So I didn't, you know, there was always these fan always these sort of fan theories as to how that was connected, you know.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Right, well, I mean there's nothing official for the link. I think fans have decided that the character you play as in Red Dead Revolver is possibly Uncle in two and three. One and two. Um but I mean I I I don't know, I can't speak for the links.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

I'm sure there's a million YouTube videos where they say this post is the post that you fitted as R for on the stair.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, I can't really remember Red Dead Revolver. I know I've I've played, I haven't finished.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

It's not open world, obviously. It sees little kind of almost arcade like punch levels of like boof, you're in this area, this is what you've got to do. It's enjoyable, it is.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Um they sort of mention the time error on there that you could link to. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

I can't remember whether there's a time error on it, or I think maybe not, and that's how people are able to squeeze it around in the free class wherever they like. I don't know. Okay. Um, but and if you're going, if you're thinking, oh yeah, I ought to play this, slow down, don't get too crazy spending your money on it. I think there's more modern ways of playing it. Um PS4, I think it's back there's a sort of backwards compatible version of it on there or PS5.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Is it like PS2 classic sort of thing they've done?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yeah. Um pick it up there. Message in if you found some joy in it and let me know where that joy is. Uh it feels more like a it always felt to me more like a high score chase, a little bit more of like a nod to the arcade, a little bit like Yeah, it doesn't feel like Rockstar made it to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

It's a bit clunky, it's a bit it I'll tell you what it feels like.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

A cowboy version of the gun. Uh no, not gun, the club.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Uh yeah, that's yeah, that's a good comparison. We did, yeah. We had a bit of fun with the club, didn't we? Yeah, that's a good comparison, actually. That sort of shooter's, you know, like you say, high score arcade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good comparison.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

And when obviously, and therefore when Red Dead Redemption was announced, the first of the new games, I was a bit hesitant because everyone was hyping it to be this big thing, and I was like, you know, I played the first one.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah.

Pro Evo’s Rise Over FIFA

SPEAKER_03 7:12

And it it obviously when I got it, because I think one of the reasons why I bought it was I I like a Western, you know. Um but yeah, original Xbox it it was a it was a tough ask. I played it again on PS2 more recently, the same game. Um what else we got?

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Well, I mean, going back to Pro Evo 3, I mean, this was when Pro Evo was really starting to find his feet then and really sort of taking FIFA on. Um, and a lot of me included were sort of players that had come across from FIFA had sort of got a bit arcadey, it was a bit samey, and then Pro Evo came in, you suddenly thought, actually, this plays a bit better than FIFA.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

As a as a sports outsider RGT, I would say that I was aware of ISS Pro because of Terry Blowy was he snubbed FIFA early days to be an ISS or winning 11 guy, he was always raving about it. Yeah, I'd like well, it's got none of the proper names, and it was like, who cares?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

This is a beautiful game. Well, they knew that because they give you that option to so me and that was Bull Border, we would uh from over on uh on UCP, we would uh sit down, get the new Pro Evo game, and then the first thing you'd done was to sit down, editor, and then redo Man Red, uh Man United, then Merseyside Red, Liverpool, rename all the teams so it looked like a proper team, and they knew that. But I also think you think if pre especially at pre Pro Evo 3, if they had the licenses at the time, they would have smashed FIFA, but you know, FIFA clung on to those licenses and obviously with the FIFA name, and but the gameplay was so good in them games.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

I'm not a football game player, but you know, obviously I was subjected to Terry to ISS, and therefore when this hit, I was aware of it being like the cool kids choice, yeah. But around 2003, 2004, 2005, the script flipped for uh Pro Evo, where it actually started to become not just that cool cool man's choice, it kind of broke, as you're saying, it broke the meniscus and the sort of more mainstream became aware of it. Suddenly, around 2000 like 2003-2004, you saw a lot of ISS, and this was the year of the bus stop poster. Yeah, and Pro Evo was the king of the bus stop poster. There was a few notable ones in 2004 for me, but that was one of them. Um, iconic sort of six-foot-high poster that you kind of looked at at the bus stop. Yeah, video game advertising was kind of everywhere at that point in time. It was a big era, PS2 was massive, Xbox was out, it had good guns going on.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

And I think Konami realised that FIFA had all the licenses. Obviously, they had the FIFA license, you know, EA had that, and they so to so to take them on, you're not gonna get it by trying to get licenses, you need to be a better game, you need to play better. So, all their time went into rather than getting you know Wayne Rooney's signature, you get you know, get the devs to make this game really good, and it paid off because it played so well. The Master League was brilliant, and when you started being able to bring youth players through and improve them and get them better, and then they'd become superstars, and we'd never seen that before, you know. You just signed up for a team on FIFA and played the game, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

While while Pro Evo were busy making a playable game, someone at EA was probably struggling with a Nokia 3310 to try and scan in Wayne Rooney's face as some guy could just take that flame and just stick it on this like pixel age trek like head, like oh yeah, it looks dead like him.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah, no, you're right. And yeah, it just paid off because you know, after a while FIFA then realised that we need to uh we need to start matching them here.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

We need to uh I think the injustice for me, and again I'm an outsider, came from that FIFA pretty much adopted the Pro Evo playbook. And they then everyone suddenly went, Oh, FIFA looks real because it's got the players' faces scanned in with a Nokia 3310, and it's got the right to put their name in next to the picture of them. Yeah. Therefore, uh go FIFA's and that was really the beginning, that was the nadir of I mean, we're quite far in the future here, but that was the end really then of Pro Evo. But the the the the light, like I say, I'm on the outside, this is a bit like you talking about MLB, but I I feel like it's like it's it's light never shone brighter in this year, and I I I can't speak for all the play I've fiddled with Pro Evo over the years, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

But this is sort of the start of the Pro Evo where they really started getting their feet, then that went to four and five, and they were really people buying that year in, year out. And um, even if you play a modern like now, I've got EAFC26, you play career mode, you can see that sort of DNA from the early Pro Evo's with your youth players and how you bring them through, and yeah, that seemed as though they do you think it's a shame that Pro Evo ended up losing, even though it was the better product. Well, that's now that eFootball free online game, which is I've only played twice, and to be honest, is it's heartbreaking to see where it's gone and where Konami has taken it, because it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Yeah, I just think they got backed into a corner, and this is the best they could come away with.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Well, their their biggest problem was, and I still say this to this day, and I know I've said it on our sister show, UCP. The problem that they done is when when the last gen came out, PS4, Xbox One, they released Pro Evo 2014, and they released it on the PS3 and the PS2. They didn't release on PS3 and PS4. So a 2014 football game was going down on the two gens previous, and they lost their footing because everyone who had bought a PS4 and Xbox One went, well, there's only one football game to buy on here, and that's FIFA, because FIFA 2014 came out on them systems, and people jumped across to FIFA and that they fell away.

Marketing Zenith And Bus-Stop Posters

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Imagine approaching the cross-console platform of the PS4 to PS5 of that mindset, PS5 would have died, Xbox Series X would have died.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Why they fought PS2 was I don't know where their marketing found that that was the best place for release than a PS4, the current I think it is actually, especially in Power Regions, it was the last physical game released for the PlayStation.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

If you think worldwide they were trying to tap into the largest market, like yeah, you turned your nose up at PS2 in in the UK, but some kid in Brazil was like, Yes, awesome!

SPEAKER_04 14:06

I've got this now from a PS2, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

And Konami probably sat there going, How many legacy how many consoles have sold of each? Well, PS2, sorry, millions. Okay, what about this new pound angle PS4 thing? Half a million, hmm.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Problem is uh a short vision because you lost your foothold on that next console, and everyone who had bought a PS4 just went straight over to FIFA, you know, for their first football game, they went over to FIFA. I did as well. I thought, well, I'm gonna have to go back to FIFA because I need a football game, and I've stayed there.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

But right in bed one morning, Don's is like, what's up, RGT? You turn to her and you just say, I need a football game.

San Andreas: Scope, Systems, Stories

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Do you know? Do you know how bad, right? This is this is funny, right? You were gonna this is how bad this was. The rivalry between Pro Evo and FIFA. I had took me about three days to to build up the courage to tell my friend I'd bought FIFA again. And I went, Don't hate me, I've bought a football game for the PS4. He's like, Oh, what you got, Pro is it Pro Evo out? And I went, uh no, they're not coming on to the PS4, so I've uh I've bought FIFA. You what? I've I've bought FIFA. Wow, have you? Jeez, we've been banging a drum Pro Evo for 10 years, mate. I was like, Yeah, I know, but they haven't released on this anyway. Got him playing a few games on there, and it looked really good on the new console, looked shiny and that, and yeah, next thing he's got his Liverpool team on FIFA, and that was the rest of his history. But yeah, like I say, Pro Evo 3 was the you know, they were then hitting their peak, then I think. Um Fight Knight 2004, is that one of the really good ones? Am I right?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

I don't really have any recollection of that, but I do believe Fight Knight 2004 might be the start of the sort of fight night champion controls.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

I don't want to speak for it because I've never played it, and I don't I think I sort of played the Fight Knights on the next gen app, but I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

For me, I think it was Fight Knight Round 2 or something along those lines on 360 launched about the same time as uh launched about the same time as Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, because I think me and OG Tom had a trip into town to buy a game for our beleaguered, you know. I think we'd sort of this is not for this episode, but we'll save that story. I think we might have regurgitated it in the days of the OG show, but uh yeah, I haven't got really any memory of that. But I know that obviously, as you say on the next gen, fight night became suddenly became quite the the sports title, it kind of thrust itself from the outskirts deep into the centre of conversation again. Yeah, I just don't think this was that quite that moment, didn't quite have the um similar problem to you RGT. I just don't think it had enough penetration.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Um driver three. Now which one was um I know Parallel Lines was the one that was completely broken when it came out. Was Driver 3 still a really poor title? I can't quite remember. I know they were really trying to take on GTA at the time, weren't they? And I know there was a massive, massive mess up with development.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Now again, this is a game that was over every bus stop. You've got to say that sort of yellow art at the start was iconic, you could argue. Um I I remember this being relatively well received um at the time, RGT, I have to admit. It was um it was a return to form for the driver name. There was a little bit of sort of um hype behind it off the back of GTA, and this was like our driver's coming back, you better just be prepared. But it's a game that I uh I'm looking forward to your thoughts on it. I just didn't touch.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah, I played it later because I know it was quite I know it was a lot of bugs in it, and it was it was released a bit, there's certain areas that would just break the game you went in, because I know they went way, way, way over budget with promises, and they would that they'd even say they were the GTA killer, this was the real game, and blah, blah, blah. And like you said about the advertisement, you s with that yellow, you suddenly reminded me the way they advertised that, especially on bus stops and stuff, or that diagonal driver free and the yellow. For the first for the first few times I saw it, I thought they'd made a driver movie. It looked like a movie poster. And and that took me a while to realise, oh, it was actually the game. I thought they'd actually made a film. It was very that sort of early 2000s aesthetic, so almost looked like a gangster movie, like Lockstock or something, how it was advertised. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Like I say, the app the I don't think video game advertisements have ever been as strong as they were in 2004. I mean, think of the Mastodon that Halo 2 was, the marketing juggernaut that was attached to that, that it was everywhere, it was on every poster, it's you know, I remember I was kind of living down in Plymouth at the time. You get into the town centre, and and uh games were freaking everywhere, yeah. It was great, and it I think we probably didn't even realise how lucky we were at the time, we maybe took it a bit for granted. Like you could walk in game, you could walk in game station. This was that era. Uh, you could walk into a supermarket, get the latest game, you could you could go anywhere. Games were everywhere. You had the rise of the 24 hour supermarket during this era. Like I really believe they were at their zenith as well. So you could sit bolt upright half eleven at night and go, I'm gonna go get a video game. You'd hop in your car, you drive to twenty four of the big 24, the big Tesco, whatever it was, 24 7. They've got an aisle. See Probably the top 20 games for your platform there to choose from, and then a selection of like the gems of the moment, you know, there'd be five C down there.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

You know, at the time, because obviously your development cycles were a lot less, companies were releasing games a lot more regularly, and multiple games as well. The choice was unbelievable. I mean, even this list we're going down, we've only got a quarter of the way down, and we've gone Pro Evo 3, Fight Knight 2004, Red Dead Revolver, Driver 3, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

The game that we would all be playing right now, San Andreas. Like I was in this moment playing GTA San Andreas, yeah. Um and you've gotta. Oh, yeah, it looks a bit pony, and you play the remake on the modern console, you're like, Yeah, it's okay. You have no idea. Like, I knew in 2004 that San An didn't maybe look the best graphically. That I think that I I'm being honest when I say that, I remember thinking, you know, it could be better, but then when I relaxed and took it as a whole of its components, where there's this massive map with three cities in it.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

That map, and technically at the time wasn't actually possible. They'd done clever programming to get that on by literally having the map broke down into sections, and then it would load up those sections rather than the whole thing at once.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

It was they were very technical and very clever to get a map that big on a PS2 and that intermediate section when you first leave um Los Ant-No, is it Los Santos? I think it is. Yeah, you you leave there and you go to like the hillbilly area and you can't just right at the now when I play San Anne, that section goes by quite quickly. But I remember when I first played it, I lived in that little town. I went and got a little hillbilly haircut, yeah. I went and got my little hillbilly. Oh, I need a motor, but I need a motocross bike, and I don't need a pickup truck. All of a sudden, everything was I was tuned to K Rose, everything was funded around this thing. I'd even like um in a bid to continue the role-playingness of it, I'd been into Morrison's and they're sort of they had these kind of non-genuine, sort of off-brand, low-priced games on this spinner. Um, you'd normally find like Magic Eight Ball Pool or some sort of like pool hustler and bass fishing 5000, and then there was like this it might have been Kabbalah, but I don't know. But like a deer hunting simulator. So I bought that on a shop in Morrison's. So when I went to the woods in San Anne, I would then pause, save or whatever, take it out, or just go there and turn it off, load up Kabbalah's thing, and then I'll do the hunting in that, and then I was just you are all in, and I would sit there dreaming, like, Oh, if only had this, I don't know why they haven't, they've got the guns. If only you could put the animals in, and you'd get his little game reserve, and I was thinking about all the different things it could be while still enjoying everything that it was. And the game kind of takes you through this journey, like it starts off as like a gang simulator, and you're like, Oh, yeah, I'm down, I'm listening to the hip-hop, I've got the cars, the suspension, I'm feeling like an absolute player. I'm doing the albeit actually very hard gang warfare element of that game, because getting those squares turned green and keeping them green and maintaining them green, yeah, is possibly one of the toughest mini-games within GTA that I personally have ever played.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Especially when you're the other side of the map, and they say so-and-so area is getting attacked, and you're like, That is miles away. How am I gonna get there?

SPEAKER_03 23:42

You know, and and and it starts off gentle, but then well, I say it starts off gentle. I think the first area gang battle you have is near that bridge, uh, in sort of northeast Los Santos, where those trees are and the railway lines go. Yeah, you kind of there's a park near there that kind of has an underground like pedestrian subway in it, and you kind of position yourself on a little bit of a crossroads on the bridge. Yeah. Even that's quite unforgiving, really, and it was a bit of a baptism of fire.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

And I mean, I that was one of the first games where I also found how to not glitch the game, but I found how to get quite powerful quick early on, and where you have your first house. If you go out in the back of the house, there's like a the what they call it, a lot of the flood area, you know, yeah, water area. Storm drain. Storm drain, that's it. If you turn right, there's uh an Uzi under a bridge, you turn left, there's a s uh safe jacket under a bridge. So I would just go and get the safe jacket from when I first started a new game, get safe uh jacket, get the Uzi, come back save, get the Uzi, come back save, get the Uzi, come back save. So you'd end up with thousands of bullets and armour from the get-go. Yeah, it was little things like that. But yeah, the game is brilliant. I mean, did you ever watch? I believe the documentary was called Game Changers. Do you ever watch that documentary? No, I don't. That's Daniel Radcliffe, and it's about Rockstar when they were making Voice City.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Oh no, I have seen that game.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

And there's just that section where they they were Voice City was massive, it'd been released, was massive, and they were making San Andreas, and they went in to these gang areas and they actually dressed in the same era, and someone held them up and said, What are you doing in this area? You're gonna get killed, blah blah blah. And they said, Oh no, no, calm down. We're we're the guys that made Voice City, and he was like, Oh man, that's amazing. Oh, I play that game all the time, and then they went, Your voice is really good. Do you want to be in uh San Andreas? And that was CJ. So the guy that held him up actually ended up being the voice of CJ in the game. Um yeah, that's incredible. So even that you've got that connection to what they were basing the game on as well, and that that era and area is you know, true to form.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

It was I've seen that, I've seen that film, and I don't remember it because I remember I remember some bits of it, like there's a section where he's getting them to make that ping pong, the table tennis game. He's absolutely laying into it.

SPEAKER_04 26:05

I'm like, no, no, this isn't right, blah blah.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Yeah, this is this feels good. Uh I think it's available, it was available still on BBC I player, but I think you can watch it in its entirety, it's been uploaded to YouTube. I recommend uh you know, it's a dramatization, don't get me wrong. Yeah, uh, but as an interesting curio, it's it's fascinating. Some bits uh kind of got their origins in truth, haven't they? Yeah. Take the truth and expand it a bit, but it's definitely an interesting watch, you know, isn't it? It really is, and actually Daniel Radcliffe he's really good in it, I have to admit. That was my takeaway. I remember thinking, oh, what's he in it for? And then when it when it actually finishes and it's all played out, you're like, actually, he was he was perfect for that. Yeah, um, yeah. So San Anne, you leave the gang simulator, you go into like a hillbilly truck driving farming simulator, not really, but kind of gives you that light touch feeling, and then all of a sudden you're thrust into Fast and the Furious, yeah. Or no, kind of, and then like the desert Fast and the Furious, and then you've got the whole sort of desert flying sort of scenario, and then you're into San Fran. No, you're into Vegas for the last sort of pump of the game, aren't you? And it's like, yeah, I'm in Vegas, baby. That's brilliant, such a good thing. I think you can you can bet on horse racing in the game from Memphis, can't you?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

You can glitch at as well. So I ended up with millions of dollars by the time I left the uh country place. You can glitch at. Um unbelievable, yeah. But like I say, with Driver 3, if you were playing San Anne, finished it, and then thought, right, let's see what this driver three is about, you're gonna be disappointed, it's gonna be dead in the water because it was nowhere near what GTA was, and dad promised to be the GTA killer, and that didn't quite work out for him.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Um I mean, I mean, graphically, you could maybe say, Oh, yeah, do you know what Driver 3's got the legs, but then when you expand the depth and breadth of what San Ann was offering, the head cuts, the weight changed. Like, even I was like, Yeah, graphically, maybe not the best, but at the same token, I don't care because I've never had this much freedom.

Driver 3 Vs GTA: Hype And Bugs

SPEAKER_02 28:19

You live in that world, yeah. You live in that world. Driver free did look pretty, but it was very glitchy at times. Frame rate issues, um, part of the maps would disappear because they'd really tried to push, they spent millions making it, and then that they just had to push the game out. And once the game's out, then there weren't no updates to get it back on track again.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

I thought my time of picking up glitched messes were were done, you know. I've got a loft full of garbage, but you know what? I might try and pick up uh driver three, only because I kind of want that graphic artwork, I want that the more we've talked about it. I've been like, oh yeah, I need that. Um what else have you been playing in 2000 and November 2004?

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Well, we also had Spider-Man 2. Um, we had a bit of a wheel software, by the way. I didn't play it that much. I've got it. I should really go back to it because I mean that was I think they nailed it with the web.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

If if unless you've got it for nostalgia reasons and it sounds like you haven't, you probably need to get that gone.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

Um really people are screaming at me how can you say that to all this is the best Spider-Man game until the latest Spider-Man games? How can you say that? I can say that because it is aged terribly.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Oh, really? Is it the one where you where you're swinging with your web?

SPEAKER_03 29:34

So I know they've done that quite well, but when it's imagine Spider-Man PS4 based on the Toby Maguire movie, but running on PS2 hardware.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

You can get and let's do it through the lens of the time, actually, because I'm not being fair to it, because it is 2004. This game's incredible. I've got the whole of New York to walk around in from top to bottom, from pavement detail to the top of the Empire State building. Now I played it on original Xbox the first time I played it, but I played it again on PS2 more recently, say more recently within the last five years. Um it's it it is it is good, it's a good obviously retelling of the movie in a way, broadens it out and deepens the story a bit more, and that and the freedom that you have unrivaled in a superhero game, but yeah, a modern audience may find it a bit of a tough sell, I would say. Because again, I knew when I played it that it wasn't graphically the best game, but I knew what it was doing in terms of giving me the whole of New York to play in in a kind of free roaming way. I kind of accepted it, you know, because I think in that era, in your mind, you made a decision to accept just a little bit less graphical fidelity for an open world and the freedom and the range. So yeah, okay, Spider-Man looks a bit flat, but what other game can I go? And I it was around that time I think I was thinking of going to New York, or I'd just come back from New York, and I think I remember putting Spider-Man 2 in and thinking, yeah, this is good. This is it's obviously not block for block, but you know, when you're down at Battery Park looking across at the Statue of Liberty or whatever it is, and you can kind of half like pick out your landmarks, and you can get to the roof and look across the whole of the cityscape of New York, represented in its kind of half pixelated janky 3D sort of 2004 glory. Uh it's great. And the missions that reflect the film are good and the the free roaming and exploration elements, but yeah, I think if you were to go to it now, it feels a bit bland, it feels a bit empty, it feels a bit sort of grind from one end to the next to get the next mission, uh and and you know, that classic movie tie-in, but I don't want that to distract us from probably at the time the greatest Spider-Man game of all time.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Leaping leaping a bit of nostalgia, could you argue Spider-Man 2 on the PS2 is the greatest Spider-Man game of all time? Like maybe. You even had I think you could even lock moves, so I think one of the moves you unlocked was the sort of put like you're having Spider-Man 4 push into the ground and then sort of spring up so you can immediately go into your swing. That was in that, so it it had a good the mechanics and the feeling of the swinging is something that in that in this game that we talk of is the blueprint that they tried to nail for the PS4 one.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Yeah, they sort of had that DNA in Insomniac when they made uh I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

It's the feeling I wanted when I picked the game up, and as soon as I picked up that that game on PS4, I was like boom, they've nailed it. It's the game I wanted 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Uh years ago. Also on here, Burnout 3 takedown. Um, I was never much of a burnout player, I didn't like it, but not to say I didn't like it back in the day, I never really played it, I didn't have licensed cars and that, and that didn't feel I know people rave about the burnout games, you know, some of their favourite driving games. I've tried playing them, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

2004, are you telling me that even if you didn't play it, you haven't got the slow-mo crashes burned into your core memory somewhere from this era? The the logo in the bottom right hand corner, the sort of slow-motion car skipping and hitting the truck and it rolling over and there being carnage everywhere, and you're being like, Wow, that looks incredible. But why did it slow-mo? It felt like it fitted the moment, yeah. But again, like 2004 delivered as kind of in my mind, like a game in Zeitgeist like no other. Xbox was doing well, Halo 2, we had San Anne, PS2 was in like a little literal glory position. I could I could just dump you the games I've been playing in preparation. Some of these I played or have been sort of circling with, but and forgive me if these came out in November the 30th or whatever, sewers. I don't care. Um we're doing a good job.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Um Lord of the Rings Third Age. Uh obviously, me and my beautiful wife played that through recently, too recently for me to play through that again. Um, but you know, what a banger. What a great era. Another of those poster games.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

How can we forget that Simpson Hit and Run came out this year? Um still looks good, I think, still holds up pretty well. If you were to do this re-released, I think it would go down well, to be honest with you.

Spider-Man 2’s Swing And Aging

SPEAKER_02 34:54

No, no, no, that sort of Simpsons-esque TV show graphics, didn't they? It was they did.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

There were there there's been times that I've when I've been playing Hit and Run, where if you catch the characters, and I do believe the Simpsons have some sort of inbuilt animation lore where you can never see the characters either full-on facial or at certain angles. You'll notice in the cartoon you never see any of them animated in these certain positions, you know, in a camera angle. Obviously, sadly, Simpsons Hit and Run gives you the ability to see any Simpsons character from any angle, and they don't look great in 3D, some of them.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Yeah, I know you barely recognize it. I think I remember look, I think it might be Homer. You look if you look face on to him, you just think, is that what a Homer looks like if you look at him face on?

SPEAKER_03 35:35

It makes a bit strange. It's super strange. Bart's as bad. Um GTA San Anne, we've just talked about, uh, mentioned it a bit earlier. Now I've because of my um house move game stash shenanigans. I've been playing the Prince of Persia Warrior within on the PS3, the trilogy version. Looks super sharp on there, but my goodness, probably shouldn't maybe have made it that sharp. Uh oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

What are the controls like on there? I've always those printed versions.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Nice, they feel a bit. You've got the fluidity emotion. There's a lot of in two, they brought in a lot of environment and environmental interactions, like there's a let's say there's a a column in the middle of the room, walk to the column and press X or triangle, maybe, and you kind of use that, you kind of swing around it like some sort of male pole dancer, except it's uh a knife twirling arena, and you basically just walked into a a liquidizer, so you you spin around this column just dancing your swords around. The animations are really good, but they decided to use the character models for the in-game movies, which I'm normally a fan of, but then like zoomed right in on them and don't go that close to that model. Jesus Christ, what are you thinking? You know, maybe in 2004 it looked great, I'm sure it did. But time has not been kind to the zoomed-in visuals of that game. Sly 2, I think we've all talked at length about that, but obviously a great return to Foreman and evolution on the first game. Graphically, I think because of the aesthetics and the cell shading, Sly 2 will stand the test of time for a hell of a lot longer. Obviously, Sucker Punch there. Sucker Punch, kind of in my mind, a little bit famous for kind of floaty characters. You get it in Sly, and you do get it in Infamous. Um Jack 3. Uh, the almost open world GTA like Jack, I believe, from memory. I I haven't played this for the longest time, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

I played one and two, um, which I love both those, and the the evolution of two, and I've got three, and I still haven't played it. It's another one I need to play, Jack Three. Um, I don't know whether it's that well thought of compared to the other two, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

I love the first one, all right. For me, that's always what it'll always be. I know people are probably shouting at me, but I just love the simplicity and the kind of naivety of it. That sort of 3D platformer, yeah. Feels like an N64 game on steroids kind of thing. Whereas like I understand why you want a darker, more aggressive Jack. I understand why that might be targetable at a wider audience. Uh, it just didn't grip for me.

Burnout 3 And Mid-2004 Zeitgeist

SPEAKER_02 38:20

No, I'd like to Jack 2. I like the the sort of the city they done, and yeah, it was very well made, very pretty. Um, and I did enjoy the game. I mean, Mrs. RGT has played one, she's been on two and been stuck on a level for years. There is, and that is brutal. One of the levels you have to get to this area in a certain time is absolutely brutally hard. Um, yeah, and I always found that you know, I don't know why they made it that tough. Um, but I did enjoy the game, and I remember playing through it back in the day, but I cannot I cannot remember playing three.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

I've got three, but I've got frickin' Daxter on the PSP. I'm a little bit off topic here, but I've never been able to. It's like one of those games I pick up every now and then. Yeah, I do the same with that. I'm playing it on PS5 and I'm playing it on PSP original hardware. But what really bugs me with the game is there's like I've really enjoyed it. It's graphical powerhouse for the PSP, even backwards compatible on the PS5, they've kind of jazzed it up, it looks it looks acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Um, but there's a section where you have to drive around on this moped kind of spraying these plants to kill them. But of course they've given you a rather hideous timeline to hit. Of course, you can't find all of the flowers until like the last ten seconds when they all get an arrow above them. Of course you can't remember the order in which you did it the first time, nor the second time, or the third time. Every time you normally end up being one to five to two plants away from finishing it, so you know it's within you to do it. But I have spent so long on it now where I'm just like, do you know what Dax is dead to me? And these games do have that within them. Like Daxter's a prime example, but as you say, Jack Two has stump this as RGT for years, those elements of Jack One where I was like, honestly. Yeah. Leaves.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

And it seems to be at random points because that bit in Jack Two isn't that far into the game.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

It's just this random, brutally hard thing that you just I just think it's that trying to frame up that spirit of that 3D open platformer from the N64. It's like, oh, we ought to. What made the N64 games good? Oh, what about a completely out-of-character, hard as all nails section right now that's literally going to hard lock the rest of the game?

unknown 40:43

Ha ha!

Konami’s Hot Streak On PS2

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Perfect, put it in. Yeah. Well, I think it's a good idea, boss, actually, because we were looking at sort of 10 hours completion time. What if we insert this random, almost janky, unplayable, broken garbage in the middle? Oh, looking at maybe 30 to 40 hours. Perfect. Yeah, that yeah, that's perfect. It's either that or another world, boss. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Put the janky driving bit in the middle of it. Absolutely. Disgusting. Firefighter FD 18. I've always miscalled this. I've called it Firefighter FDA NY18. I've called it a myriad of different names. I'll be honest with you, another game that was kind of a poster boy on the on the wall. Um I remember this fondly, very fondly. It's by Konami. They had a bloody good run on PS2 in 2004 BTW. Um so Firefighter FD 18 plays a little bit like an arcade game at times, but it's got a great almost like backdraft story stitched into it. Uh played it in preparation for this again yesterday, just to just a soft reminder. First two levels. It's a bit clunky, like you've got to go into select, you've got to press select and go into like a spinny radial menu to get your axe out. So that takes a bit of getting used to. Um that's a that's a strange uh uh control choice there, yeah, especially when some of the other face buttons aren't even looked at. Um yeah, it is a good game though. That aside, you don't really switch weapons that often in the game.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Bit of a curio, and it's a bit of an unusual one.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

I recommend anyone play it. It like, yeah, it's not a realistic firefighting simulator, don't get me wrong. But in in 2004 on PS2, it's as close as you can get. And because it's Japanese, they've obviously woven a very sort of over-the-top story into it. So the story is kind of told through these kind of news reels. Uh, and the presenter is absolutely nuts. I mean, she's there reporting, and she says something like, 'Oh, we're gonna find out if there's any casualties.' You arrive, this rather sort of butch American firefighter. Never stay casualties. Okay, no problems.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

Just don't say it.

SPEAKER_05 43:04

Don't say the word. Casualty.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Playing for some good voice actors. It was a quiet week, so I thought I'd hop into the studio for them. Uh up next, Silent Hill 4, the room, at Lycon Army again. Absolutely beautiful looking game RGT for the era.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yeah, they they knew what they were doing at the time, didn't they?

SPEAKER_03 43:28

I don't know what the world thinks of Silent Hill 4. I don't know whether it's one of the more sort of favoured ones or not, but the concept, you start in a room, kind of quite disconcerting at first. You kind of wake up in a blood-covered room, graphically great. That section of it though, all in first person, which was an interesting choice. When you escape your room, uh it switches to a more traditional third person view, um which which I kind of found interesting. Voice acting a bit yank janky, but you know, the slew of some of the grossest things I've seen. For me, uh you know, Japanese horror is very disconcerting. This is full of that. Two-headed, long-haired girls that use hands instead of feet. Yeah, that'll stay with you.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Yeah, it wonders where the the minds that produce those creatures is that.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

When you put it when you first put that game in, it kind of plays through like a loop and of like the more hideous shit in it, I would say. And uh turned to to Rachel and was like, my god. Forgotten about nightmares for months. Yeah, sort of forgotten about how bloody idious this is at times. But yeah, so I'd again I'd kind of loosely recommend that as a curio. Or certainly, I think that some of its PS2 yank leads into its horror elements a bit more. Uh obviously, here I'm playing I'm holding up for the probably never to be released YouTube video, the a copy of Subsistence, but it's actually here because I find it the only way I can half stomach Metal Gear Solid 3, if I'm honest with you. Uh it gives you the freedom of the camera back on the bright stick. Uh yeah, makes it more of that 3D game that we maybe more appreciate in the modern era. Yeah. But um I mean, as a package there, that that's a stack of games that would make any PS2 collection look pretty pretty pretty interesting. You realize how small we were. Yeah, and then the fact that they all came out within a 12-month period, you've got to think to yourself, well, any one of those individual games could be thought of as being an absolute banger. Yeah. Tell me, RGT, I've hogged this time to go through what I can only honestly say when you said, Oh, we're gonna go back to 2004, and I I'll I'll be honest with you, I got wetter than Tom Daly's diving pocket. The thought and I just as I say, you know, 2004 is quite fresh in the memory still for some reason. I remember the posters, I remember the art, I remember the video game magazines, I remember the you know, the poster child of 2004's video games. It was a really great time that as I say to say again that I think we took for granted. Because I don't think we'll have a time like that again where video games were just under the buzz of the mainstream, but everywhere because of their sales volume, and it's somewhere you could go and get a hit anywhere. Like I've talked about the sp the spinner of real in Morrisons, but you could also go top of town Tesco's and brand buy a brand new copy of GTA San.

Silent Hill 4 And PS2 Horror

SPEAKER_02 46:44

You know, and I also think you've got to remember at the time because there was a lot of games, there was a lot of games from the same genre competing, so we tended to get the best of each genre from your open worlds like GTA and driver to your FIFA's, to your Pro Evos, to your racing games, from your Grand Turismos to your burnouts. Each genre had multiple choice. Now, if you're playing a baseball game, you play MLB, if you're playing a football game, you play FIFA, you know, or EAFC. We don't seem to have that battles now for supremacy, but then you did, you know, from anything from your 3D platformers to anything, there was always which one do you have? Which one do you play? And the choice was fantastic, and companies battling for that top spot of their genre, you know, from your horror to anything.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

It was pretty and gaming as a whole was still in that more tribal era of you've got one or the other, not both or all three. Yeah, yeah, you're done, you're in this or you're not.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Great moment, great moment.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Uh yeah, absolutely brilliant. Well, that will lead us then. That was you know, a few of what we would have been playing, but it also anything else you want to pick out of that because obviously I got a little bit carried.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

I got I'll be honest, I think I'll probably be excited again.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Do you only there's only a couple there um that I remember playing uh quite you know, putting a few hours in Sims 2? Um me and my mate shared a place and he introduced me to the Sims, which is something I thought I'd never play. It wasn't in my wheelhouse, but once I got into it, it was everywhere, yeah. It was and I was just like, What is this game? I'd never heard of this genre or you know, this seemed really strong. I saw him playing it, watched him play it for a couple of hours and thought, I'm gonna I need to play a bit of this. This looks intriguing and getting jobs and you know expanding the house. Yeah, and that that drew drew me in. Tony Hawk's Underground 2. Um, now a lot I know a lot of people that don't like, yeah, a lot of people don't like the underground games. Now, especially the first one, I loved it because I thought I'd really enjoyed the pro skater series, and then taking that and adding a story mode on, you know, and it was it's it's your cliche story, you're in you live in a rough neighbourhood, you're a skateboarder, you need to make it big, your best friend is your biggest rival, and he cheats, you know, goes against you to Eric Sparrow. Remember old Eric Sparrow, what an absolute weasel he was, and then you go all the way Is that his real name? Eric Sparrow, yeah. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

He was a weasel, yeah. Some wood soup I can't leave behind. Eric Sparrow the Weasel.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Um yeah, and I just love that you know, you you start off from nothing and go all the way up. So Underground 2, I believe, had I think it was a few of the jackass guys in, like Bam Majera and that. They come pick you up in a van, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 49:43

And again, 2004 was Pete Jackass, all that sort of stuff. Uh, what were those Welsh boys? Were they around in that era as well?

SPEAKER_02 49:52

I think they were a bit I don't know, actually. No, you might be right. I can't remember. What were they called?

SPEAKER_03 49:56

They were sort of on TV, weren't they? Yeah, system of a down.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Yeah. It's all that sort of, you know, that was where skateboarding was more sort of grunge punk rock then, when you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

You know, and you're talking to the guy who was probably in 2004, had just migrated from his PS1 with a screenplaying Tony Hawks 3 to to a fully fledged sort of PS2 all-in kind of guy, and yeah, it it was a great time for Tony Hawks, extreme sports, uh gaming in general, I would argue. Yeah, yeah, I can't let it go, RGT. I can't let go how I don't think I was if I was in 2004 now at the age I am in the industry, kind of as we are, knowing what we know, doing the things that we do, I think like I would be all over 2004 like a rash. Unfortunately, it was a time where we weren't in all the lucky positions we are in now, so we kind of took it in between probably episodes of 24, in between a bombay bad boy pop noodle, yeah. You know, in between copies of Max Power and Pink or Brown, you know, it was a cheeky time.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:16

Oh mate, I've got I've just literally been paralysed by nostalgia.

Controls, Cameras, And Design Quirks

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Yeah, it's amazing when you look back and you think, oh, what was happening in 2004? Unbelievable. Let's have a look now at the news. We've scoured the very darkest regions of all the gamer magazines in the interweb to bring you this week's news first up. This comes from official PlayStation magazine.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

Oh, let can I have this?

SPEAKER_02 51:41

You can if you like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

I just I've been reading a lot of magazines from this time as well, or trying to get the old magazines out while I've been trying to hide my shame in the loft. I've been picking out the odd one to read magazines from this era, just absolutely first class. An official PlayStation magazine was one of the best ones. So in this article, uh entitled Seasickness, it's all aboard the HMS Death for Ubisoft's ocean going horror game, Project Cold Fear. Project Cold Fear has the potential to be the most vomit-inducing game on PS2, not in a sliding around in your own intestines way, nothing's likely to topple Manhunt on that front. But because the developer is accurately modelling the way a ship lurches around in hurricane conditions, the game's being developed by Dartworks, the French outfit behind Alone in the Dark, and the premise is very much horror on the high seas, with much but not all of the gameplay taking place on an enormous cargo ship score in the perfect storm-style conditions of the Bering Sea. The sick inducing movement isn't just for the dramatic effect either, it also affects your character's aim. So, what are you shooting? Myrrh zombies, vampiric squid? We haven't a clue because Ubisoft has an almost pathological aversion to plot spoilers. Certainly there were no enemies in the version we saw, however, we do know that whatever monstrosities are roaming the ship's corridors have escaped from containers in the hold. Right now the atmosphere is certainly impressive, all pounding rain and enormous waves crashing over the deck. The obvious touchstone being the classic tanker sequence from MGS2, only with slightly more disemboweled killer whales. We're modernising the genre, says Antoine Villette, the game's openly French creative director. It's a huge ship offering a large variety of rooms, gripping atmosphere and unexpected events. The idea is to fuse survival horror with action using environments that change as you play. We assume this will work alongside similar lines to SOS Final Escape. Shout out to Badabinkster, he's got that. An earthquake-based horror game with gangways collapsing and rooms suddenly flooding. The dynamic environment enables the players to think of non-linear solutions through a level, says Villette, while whistling a sea shanty. Really official PlayStation magazine. Many interactive elements can be used as weapons such as swinging hooks, hanging crates, and electric transformers, which brings to mind Saffron Burrows standing on a wetsuit in a knickers while flashing a shark in deep blue sea. Really official PlayStation magazine.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

No, this is an article of the year.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

The only worry at present is that Gorgeous, our resident horrormeister, reckons it looks slightly too French. Still he prefers cannibal fracks to The Godfather. A project Cold Fear set sales, set sale next year, almost certainly under a new name. Don't be surprised by that. We'll be arranging the deck shares till then. I I think Cold Fear, I'm trying to rack my brains, I've actually got a copy of it in my library at the moment. Maybe not. Maybe I have. That game was great. I don't think it reviewed that well. I think maybe time has been kind to it. Yeah.

Charts Snapshot: NFSU2 Tops GTA

SPEAKER_02 55:12

I think, I mean, I had this as a hidden gem, I believe, over on our sister show, and for good reason. Um if you like your Resident Evil games and you've never heard of Cold Fear, then give it a go because it's it's got them vibes, it's you know, set on a ship, sort of almost zombie-esque sort of soldiers you're fighting. It's got some great um sort of dynamics in it with the ship rocking from side to side. For a PS2 slash Xbox game, probably Xbox is the place to play it if you want the really top-notch graphics, but it does look very good for the time.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Um mate, and again, this was another bus stop poster girl. This coal fear at front box art nailed on a bus with the different game manufacturer like uh company logos on it. That is one hell of a moment in time. And yeah, as you said over on the main show or the other show, the unofficial controller podcast, just the main show, uh, you brought this in as a hidden gem. I remember it explicitly. And yeah I think that game has probably aged quite nicely. It's got a good feel to the graphics.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

Yeah, I've played it in the last sort of two, three years and didn't really, you know. If you're a modern game, I don't think you'd have too much trouble with it. I think it still plays really well, um, still runs really well, it looks good.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Um one thing I noticed in Stake Eater, excuse me, is that this era still had like the ponchant for make it forcing you to hold like an aim button, uh, but it wasn't going to be one of the shoulder buttons to shoot. So I was as I was playing Metal Gear yesterday, I was trying to like do an accurate shot on a crocodile. I was like, how do you get in first person? Like, what the oh and now I see that oh right, yeah, okay, of course. This is this is this is this is not very intuitive.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Yeah, we at the time they they'd all try different controls, whereas now we have sort of we have a bit of an industry standard now, don't we? Whereas you know, your R2 is your shoot, your L2 is your sort of aim, and if you've got a sniper rifle, and that's just what industry, but at the time they're all doing different mate.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

The PlayStation had a weird even into the PS3, this kind of weird relationship with R L1 and R1.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

No, no, you're gonna shoot with these. Why the hell are you making me shoot with the buttons when there's the actual triggers underneath? You donuts, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

I know that was weird, weird, weird choices at the times, but yeah, going back to Cold Fear. Um, yeah, I just thought this was a great game, well produced, well made. It's interesting seeing these sort of early snaps of what they were thinking of the game and what it was.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

It's a bit about Ubisoft, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Yeah, totally forgot. I can't see them making a game now. It's probably what you know that would have been nice to see a succession of games of this sort of ilk from them, but they never, you know. You if you didn't know who made this, you could think Capcom made this.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

100%, and that in my mind, I always have them sort of sectioned off as being involved in it. That's why Ubisoft slapped me on the back of the legs. I was like, Oh, yeah, of course. I forgot. Yeah, yeah. What more can be said, mate, to be honest with you? What's this next bit of news?

iToy Mania And Living Room Chaos

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Next up, we have this is over on Eurogamer. Um Nintendo moving into online within three to four years. DS to go online sooner than we think. Miyamoto. Comments attributed to Nintendo's Shiguru Miyamoto and this week's Famitsu magazine indicate that the company is planning to bring its systems online within three to four years timescale, with DS leading the way. Miyamoto, credited as the design genius behind the behind key Nintendo franchises, including uh Zelda and Mario, told the magazine that online gaming will reach the mainstream within three to four years and that Nintendo will be moving in that direction as a result. In the current generation of console hardware, only Nintendo has shied away from uh providing online gaming services on their system, arguing that online play is not of interest to the majority of consumers as yet. However, a translation of Miyamoto's comments in Famitsu, which has been posted on the internet, reveals that he expects Nintendo DS to get online, um, get online games in the near future, which would lead Nintendo's movement into the online space. DS online functionality would presumably use the system's wireless LAN capabilities to hook up to the internet. At present, these functions can Can be used to communicate between DS units for wireless, multiplayer, or chat. Intriguingly, Mi and Meto implied that the Nintendo is working with Square Enix on developing the online system for the DS. Square Enix formerly developed the play online system for PlayStation 2, which was used as a launcher for Final Fantasy XI, but that had the capability to be used as a more comprehensive online gaming system. Square Enix has confirmed that it is working on titles for the DS with a handheld version of its GameCube multiplayer RPG title Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, expected to launch next year. As yet, the publisher hasn't commented on the possibility of this title having online functionality. Elsewhere in the interview, Miyamoto also commented that a new Mario title, which is being called Mario 128, is still in development for the GameCube, not for the company's next generation revolutionary console, as has been rumoured previously. He also mentioned that Nintendo is working with strong allies to create a new Pokemon title for the Cube, but could not uh reveal further details on what this title would be. Now, I put this in here because I thought this was quite interesting to see. This is when the companies were then thinking of this online. Online was then starting to be more of a thing with obviously your original Xbox that had the online built in. You could get the internet adapter for your PS2. Or the Slim at this in this era. Yeah, the Slim. But also which actually interested me with this was I never realized that Square Enix done the online for PS2.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:43

I never realized that they no, I don't think I was aware that they built the infrastructure, at least the kind of online gateway. But then again, they kind of had to, didn't they?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Yes, yeah, you know, it's you know, a sort of, well, if you do this, then it's it's benefiting you as well, sort of thing, isn't it? Really? And yeah, but interesting to see that you know, with Nintendo, you know, and it sort of says in this article how they're not planning on this, whereas the others were, this is still a sort of a trend with Nintendo, in it. They're always that step sort of behind with certain things.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

They know what they I think it might just take them a while to work out how they're going to monetize it and and utilise maybe their own USPs to do so. Yeah. I I think obviously the others probably saw that they had a space to allow online competitive shooters to take place. Obviously, Sony had the Virgin in Socon series, Microsoft was sort of playing around with sort of online leaderboards and true online play with Xbox Live. Um Dreamcast had obviously paved the way, but it left these consoles looking a little bit behind the fact that they didn't have the internet uh baked into them the way the Dreamcast did. So they they rushed towards the mid and end life cycle of the original Xbox and the PS2 uh to cover this off. Um Sony obviously had one take to probably sell to the installed users the the modem, which went in the what's colloquially known on Reddit as the weed stash hole on the original PS2.

unknown 1:03:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

I watch a guy online who's always buying like bulk from Goodwill in America, like 300, 400 consoles. Uh Jacob R, I think his name is, and every time he opens the PS2 up, he always goes, I wonder what's in the slot on the back. I wonder if there's any.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

You've got to be wondering because it would it would have took some uh adult DVDs in there that you might be wanting to hide from Mumkey per se, or some smaller magazines might be able to fold it up and slapped in there. I mean the PS2's literally cooking its innards, but your secrets are safe. Yeah, exactly. Your secrets are safe, young teenage shit RGT. There's nothing to worry about.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

Stick a little blue DVD in there and put it the wrong way, and it's just reflecting the heat straight back up to slightly fry your motherboard, but Mumsy doesn't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

PS2's bulletproof. You could literally cook your tea in that and then play with the San Anne straight after. Um yeah, the online obviously they were there. Xbox kind of met the as the PS2 was coming to its mid to end of life cycle, obviously, the Xbox launch with all this fancy dance tech in it, which kind of made PS2 a little bit wobbly, but they they met them uh and and beat them off quite easily, I would say. But it was definitely the rabbit was out the hat for online, Nintendo being slightly behind. But as I say, they were staring down the barrel of the gun of not having the more mature games or the more mature installed user base that maybe could populate these online shooters in a way that very true, yeah, very true, suitable. They're probably panicking, wondering how the hell they're gonna get Mario Kart working online with players across all of the world, you know. They've got a lot of things to consider while also at this time probably doubling down on. I mean, was this the moment where they thought if we go totally safe protectors of children within the online gaming space and dress ourselves up as the Disney and are very kind of cautious and protective with online, limited access with the gamers, limited interactivity outside of the actual main game that you're playing? Is this the time where they hoisted their panties up on that flagpole RGT? Is this where they kind of went, Well, we can't compete, so line drawn, this is the side of the fence we'll sit on.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Yeah, I mean, very true. I mean, it looks as though that's that early signs of that. I mean, because by the time we got to the Switch, even then, you still didn't really have proper game chat, everything was protected and locked down. Um, they went their own way, and some people say, Oh, they're so behind. Well, you know, they still sell well over a hundred million switches, so it didn't do them any harm, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

There was no yeah, they're behind, but to frame it up in the modern metric, did me and you look at the switch too and go, Well, you know, I I I I can't do voice chat cod on there, so it won't be getting bought. Like, did I did we didn't exactly so while Nintendo have been out the game, the business has matured enough where online's not really the main buzz of the game anymore, so they're kind of getting away with it. They've got the online really there for the functionality to be able to get their extend their very long arms out the screen down into your pocket and literally extract most of your wages in revenue away. Um they're very good at that. Uh pricing, interactive features availability, they're very good at that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

Um the thing I will say about Nintendo is you know, we've seen it before when company companies panic. You know, we had Games Pass, Sony panicked. I know we're talking in the future here, but Sony panicked, done their premium to try and match. Nintendo doesn't do that, and they never panic. You know, for instance, Gen Generation 7, everyone went, you know, Xbox 360 originally didn't start with HD, but did you know HD compatible pierce through as HD, and they just went, well, we're mate and a Wii and are still on A V because we know most of the TVs people have got are still tube set C RTs.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:12

Most of the ways that people plug into even a modern set, they're just gonna go straight in through the red, white, and yellow on the front. Absolutely. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

And ended up being one of the best-selling consoles of all time, even though people were saying, Oh, they're not HD. Doesn't matter. It doesn't, they're still gonna sell. So they'll always do their own thing, and they even done their own thing here, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

Hey, you can you could I think you could walk away up again. This isn't really a conversation for today, but you could walk up to the edge of HD with some component cables, but it was still a mess.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, and they they they seem to know what they want to do, and even back then with this online, you know, this is what we're doing, it's gonna be DS, it's gonna be very slight to begin with. We've got Square Enix working on it, bang, you know, they tunnel vision. This is what we're doing, and and and they go with it, and fair play to them, because that's yeah, you know, apart from a few misses, certain things seem to work when they do it like that. So, um, right, this next bit news. Do you want to tap this, George or?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

Yeah, I'll I'll mount it final bit. What we got here, uh bear with me because I'm I'm not the most. You want me to read it? I can read it.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:18

No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:20

I want this. Determined. Uh, this is an article from uh goodness knows where gameindustry.biz, apparently. Uh uh, it's uh an article uh by Rob Farhey, contributing editor from November 2004, which is right in our wheelhouse. UK Charts Need for Speed Underground 2 takes pole position. EA Street Racing sequel Need for Speed Underground 2 has knocked Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto San Andreas on the top spot in the UK charts this week, leaving the battle for Christmas number one wide open. EA Street Racing sequel Need for Speed 2 has kicked uh knocked Grand Theft Auto San Andreas on the top spot in the UK charts this week, leaving the battle for yeah too. Why don't you just re-gear to take your first paragraph?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

Yeah, I don't know what they wrote that twice.

Stingray’s Boot: December Wishlists

SPEAKER_03 1:09:14

Uh the editors uh needing shot, as am I, because I also walk straight into it. San Andreas drops one place to number two for in the charts this week, while EA's FIFA 2005 claims three places, climbs three places to number three, putting it back in the running for the top spot over Christmas. Rival football title Pro Evo Soccer 4 is also upwardly mobile this week, rising four places to number four, thanks mostly to the arrival of the live enabled Xbox version of the game. Half-Life 2, however, slips rapidly down the chart, dropping to number 9 from last week's number 3, with the impact of direct online sales over the Steam service still to be measured. There's only one new arrival in the top ten, with THQ's The Incredibles climbing 11 uh places to number 7 following the cinematic launch of the Pixar movie on which it is based. It's quite a poor week for new releases. In fact, EA's GoldenEye Rogue Agent is the top trap ranked new title according to uh according to the latest Gallup polls coming in at number 11, just ahead of Sony's Kill Zone at number 12, while Nintendo's Metroid Prime 2 Echoes has a largely disappointing debut at number 33. Ubisoft's Ghost Recon 2 comes in at number 34, while Sony's Jack 3 illustrates the decline of the franchise in sales, if not in quality, slipping in to the top 40 at number 37 this week. I'm just trying to make this slightly more um slightly larger for my rather aged eyes. Um we can't have gamed in this era and be able to read in the era that we're talking about, so just be gentle with us. Um this this sort of piqued my interest when I was doing a little bit of personal research. Uh retail uh retailer promotions make this into a strong week for Sony's line of quirky peripherals. However, the iPlay Play Toy 2 is at number 22 with Sega Superstars charting for the first time at number 21 six weeks after its launch, and Sing Star Party making a massive leap of 20 places to this week's number 20. Nowhere to be seen in the chart this week were titles including Lemony Snickets a series of unfortunate events, which may well chart after Jim Carrey's starring movie launches next month, and another film tie-in, The Polar Express. We're here. This is the era, guys. Beyond that, consumers also missed out on the likes of Power Rangers, Dino Thunder, Siberia 2, Scaler, Pac-Man World on the GBA, Driven to Destruction on the PS2, and don't forget this series is strength of popularity, CSI Miami coming out on PC. And next week uh we see the release of Ubisoft's Prince of Persia Warrior Within. Well, I've already been playing it, I don't think much of it right now. With a headlining obviously, it did really well at the time, critically and sales-wise. Um, headlining a release list which includes Call of Duty Finest Hour, IDOS's Crash and Burn, Sidmire's re-release Pirates, and Tron 2 Killer on Xbox. I mean, if ever a time and date has been sort of framed up RGT, that article nailed it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

That's why yeah, that's why I chucked it in here because from from the charts, from games, from you know, even seeing that Jack 3 was struggling, but then you also see peripherals like the iToy. Um, who remembers the iToy? I mean, I think I still remember getting the iToy, and that was that almost um sort of Wii-esque early connect where it would sh obviously I don't if if you've never heard of an eye toy, it would be a camera on for on top of your TV for your PS2, which would then show an image of you, and then you'd play the games watching yourself on the TV. But even that was seemed to be really popular at the time. But you know, there was games I'd even forgot about, like GoldenEye Rogue Agent and things like that. You know, it's it's incredible snapshot as to where the charts were, what we were playing, I just want to go back a minute and take a moment just to sort of spin around in the iToy universe for a moment. Yeah, it's what I was then saying about the iToy and and explaining what it was, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:51

There's no, I just you know, you talking of it there in a little bit of the research I did myself. I kind of started googling the charts and the games that had made it and sat there right in the middle, pretty obnoxiously was iToy. I was like, What the hell? Yeah. I remember it coming out and the camera and the people washing the windows and all that sort of stuff. Even in 2004, thinking this seems a bit odd, but at the same time being mildly intrigued by the technological prowess of this camera for PlayStation 2. Now we we saw the sort of eventual play out of this on like the Wii, and obviously it's its rip-roaring success, but Soda was right here at the start with the the kind of motion controls.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

I I would argue iToy is a great product for 2004, but uh well my snapshot memory of iToy was I remember it coming out, and me and my, you know, I've said this before, me and my mate were house mates at the time, and he said, Oh, we've got to get this, this is amazing, you can play the games yourself, sort of thing. And we were friends of our neighbour, and we just always just walk around each other's houses through the back gate, so the living room window was out to the garden. And I just remember me trying to wash these windows, waving my arms about in a sort of an up, I almost looked like a cross between a panicked hostage and having a smart mild seizure upright. And I just remember looking round to the window and seeing my neighbour looking in thinking, What the bloody hell is he doing? And it's me going, trying to wipe these windows, and he comes, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

Oh, it's his new eye toy, you don't need a controller, and you display it was great fun for the first four or five times you played it, yeah, and then it went in the drawer under the TV unit and didn't really I mean I've seen its functionality washed into like fitness games, I think, from memory and other bits and bobs, and obviously dance games, and I think Sony is the functionality with with the Buzz series on PS2, definitely on PS3, but we we're here to talk about 2004. Um they uh they did a fair bit with it, but I think they took it as far as anyone could decently take it without looking like they're being a bit disingenuous with it. I think it was squeezed into as many things as they could squeeze it into and get away with. Um, I think there's some cross-functionality with the SingStar series as well, which was huge in this era. I think we forget how many titles that sold, and we've got the show's loyal friend, retro gamer boy, aka the man on the inside at Sony during this era, Mike Rouse. Um good friend of the show. I think we ought to have him back on for a flashback, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:33

That'd be good, yeah. Get Mike on for a flashback, that'd be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:37

Leave it with me. I'll message the old boy after this, just gently see if he's up for it. Because I think after the retro man, did he ever come back after Retro Man? Or was that it it I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

I think he'd done one more after then, didn't he? In the submarine. We did you just remembered that, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:59

No, he no, he he and this is the beauty of Mike Rouse. He turned up, he'd invented his own speedboat story, I think, from memory. Uh one of the times we'd kidnapped him in his squid game style, and I think the other time was literally the Retro Man, which I think might have been the last time, but if it wasn't the last time, shame on him. Uh I don't know, we'll see if we can get him back. But this is like he was firmly lodged in the Sing Star iToy peripheral universe at the time. Um and if you extrapolate from that, I think Sony were because you know, not really long in in the world of development cycles before we got the uh the PS3 follow-up, the PS3 camera and the moves. So this maybe now with a vision of hindsight was maybe a little bit of a tech demo experiment sort of prototype of maybe something they thought they could move towards. Did you what other games other than the packings did you use it with? I think there was an anti-Grav game, like you can roll around on a like a hoverboard type scenario.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:10

Yeah, I don't know if I even played that. I think we played the packing games and it was a novelty for a few days to show a few friends, and then that never really got used again. But this this is typical Sony, they always that you know. I know we've always said this about Xbox, you know, they always say if Imp break broke, don't fix it. Whereas Sony are always trying new things from the iToy to when you went to next gen with the move and the controllers, and the you know, they had sent pressure sensitive buttons and then Jules sent. They're always trying these new things, you know. And this was just sort of the start of them experimenting with peripherals and different bits and pieces, and yeah, it was it was it was clever for the time um to use that sort of camera in reverse way of showing yourself on the screen, which was strange. It was quite clever and a novelty, and I expect there was a lot of younger gamers who had hours of fun with these, and you know, the one where you had to sort of juggle the beach balls and stuff.

Sports Wars And Konami’s Fall

SPEAKER_03 1:19:07

Mate, listen, it's 2004, you're little Johnny, and you get an eye toy for Christmas for mum and dad. Are you telling me that come midnight, granny, mum, dad, probably you, high on sweets, little bit tired, your eyes are strained and small and a little bit teary because you see you've seen your main Christmas present literally get stomped a mud hole dry in all the fun that it could ever unlock for you, literally stomped dry within the 24 hour period of Christmas. Next morning, Bots and Date. John will have an hour going this now, Johnny. No, no, I'm done. Uh I might just make myself sick from this selection box and uh read my Blue Peter annual Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:52

There was plenty of houses uh Christmas time 2004 with uh like Christmas is the time of debauchery and over exertion.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:00

But I tell you what, it can also claim a casualty in the Christmas toy as well. Can't it? 100 quids worth of Christmas toy almost in the bin, come boxing day, because little Johnny's seen everybody else walk through it like 20 times. Can't I have a go? Like, hang on, Johnny, your dad's nearly got my top score in the window washing.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

I remember when I got my spectrum under every time I went to get a black, my dad was sweating balls over the light gun. Can I play no dad? No, I'm I'm in the final round. Hang on. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:29

My dad took the computer off me a couple of times because he got into stuff later on. Well, no, kind of pre this, like I lost my Atari ST to dad on Railroad Tycoon. I think I've told the story on the show where I've been laid on bed and I'm like, Dad, would it be alright if I went to sleep?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:50

The computer was in my bedroom. It's like, do you mind if I went to go to sleep now? And he's like, alright, I suppose so. Yeah, hang on a minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:59

Let me save.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

Yeah. Fun sponge.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:04

He was happy, he was enjoying it. It was kind of nice to witness, but at the same token, I think I was just so tired. Uh, but you know, when the fact reversal. And then that's the funny thing. You're a kid, normally it's like through a pointed, upturned nose or a sneer that they talk a game in. But that all goes out the window Christmas Day when they're kicking the nuts out of your new toy.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:24

Oh, I've got I've got a picture of my dad. My dad, I wish I still had this. I had the bar top Nintendo Snoopy game, the yellow one with the sort of backlit little game. I've got pictures of him, and he was he had the top score on that for for years. And I've got a picture of him on Christmas Day. He bought the thing, and I'm just standing there waiting. Well, he's gonna play the game again with like same a spectrum. Um, and also I even remember going, I know this is different here in the 90s. I had a Game Boy and we went to Family Holiday Toy Befa, and my dad was on Super Mario Land and Tetris loved him all the time. Now he goes, Oh, I don't know why you play them games. I'm like, hang on, and then you're just a lapsed gamer, my friend.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

But yeah, maybe you should give him one of the old machines out of the shed with a game you know would that would tickle him and just set it up in the kitchen for him and leave it with him.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:13

Well, my bar top arcade that Mrs. RGT bought me. He's he's he plays occasionally plays Pac-Man on there. He likes playing Pac-Man. As long as you've just got the one control stick, he's fine with that. Beer in one hand, control stick in the other, and he's away playing Pac-Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

I think I think you should pack up a Mega Drive 2, send it round there with a little bag of loose games for him.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

No, I'll tell you what, I'll pack him up: an eye toy and a PS2.

unknown 1:22:36

Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:37

Right. That's actually quite intimidating to an older gamer, though.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:40

You send in that and you'd be like, I don't know why you've sent me there, this is all these webcams looking at your mum getting undressed in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:48

No dad, it's it okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:54

But yeah, that was uh three stories air, a little snapshot into that month for that time. Yeah, that was interesting. You know, I tried to uh vary him up a bit, and it was a you know a bit of online, bit of games charts, you know, bit of cold fear. I couldn't resist that that article, absolutely brilliant. Um but now we have to go over to the main man himself, Mr. Stingray. How are you? Uh what do you think Stingray would have been up to in November?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:24

Why don't you get him here so we can have a look?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

Do you want do you want me to get him here first? Open the gate. Okay. It's now time for what we affectionately call Stingray's boot. What's nestled between some counterfeit nappies and a dodgy copy of Battle for Endor is some of the new releases for December 2004. Here comes the Ray. What do you think Ray was up to in November 2004?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:45

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it, and I think you need to do this going forward. Spring stop! Whoa! Well, here he is, it's the Ray. I'll tell you what he's been up to. It's 2004, he stepped out of his car, he's not wearing clothes, a bizarre advertisement for the his fake extra papers that he's gone with that we mentioned at the top of the show, the little mint strips that you stick on your tongue. Debs Babs mentioned down in a little bit of a tetarte at the uh bull the other day that uh he had a little bit of bovrel breath. To counteract that because it's 2004 and he he's although he's got his son, he hasn't met his wife worked that one out. He's as a as a means to combat this halatosis episode, he's literally covered his whole body, but not his mouth, in extra breath rationer papers.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:48

That is And his son's just climbed out of the car seat bless bless little Wayne. He's wearing a pair of dungarees, and he's literally peppered the whole side of the inside of his mouth with the extra breath rationer papers, but none on the outside of his body. What do you think what have you heard that Ray's been up to this week?

Picks, Films, And Nostalgia

SPEAKER_02 1:25:12

Um I heard he's really, really into Jackass now with the release of Jackass number two, the movie in 2004. So he's been down in Farmerton, he's been trying to do a few of the little stunts himself, hence his arm's in a cast now because he's tried to jump off the uh tractor and wagon roof and went through Debs Bab's cafe on wheels. So he's tried to do an elbow stunt on there, bang, straight through, arm gone. Um, but he's still wearing a jackass number two t-shirt. I don't even know if the the merchandise is out yet, but he has got it. And oddly, he's little Wayne has sort of stepped out of the car and he's dressed as we man. So I don't know, he's almost trying to be like the farm and Johnny Knoxville at the moment, but there you go. That's what he's doing. I was like, yeah, I was nodding silently, do it, do it, do it, do Wayne as Wi Man, do it now. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. Wayne's carrying a skateboard, but has no idea how to use it. Bless him, little Wayne. Um, but yeah, so let's go into what would have been on our uh wish lists at this current time of games.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:24

Um, I mean we had I'll I'll I'll go all in because I think I'm gonna be grabbing uh Nazi of Republic 2 on OG Xbox. I'm pumped, humped, and dumped for that. Um the original was absolutely banging. A reason to own the OG Xbox. This sequel is absolutely the reason to own an Xbox all over again. That's exclusive. Everything you could ever imagine. The title bioware just producing gem after gem, like little gaming moment after little gaming moment. Again, to phrase it up outside of the time zone that we're in. I've most recently played through admittedly the original on Switch and had an immense load of fun with it. And I think that this is both of them now also available on mobile phones for you to play through as and when you please, as you choose. Actually, really great in the mobile phone format. So go grab 2004's greatest game, play it for 199 while you wait for the bus.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:33

Superb. Um, we've also got Lord of the Rings, Battle for Middle Earth. Um I never I've never played this.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:44

Listen, if OG Tom was here, he would be all over it like a rash. Now I think he was more into the sequel, which saw a launch on 360, but this is certainly the beginning of that. And how could we have an episode of the uh unofficial controller podcast or flashback without mentioning Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth online?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:01

So what uh what sort of because I've never played it, what sort of genre is it? Is it like it's a real-time strategy? That is real-time strategy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

Yeah, so imagine sort of Command and Conquer, really, but with Middle-earth characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:12

Oh wow, they definitely had some different genres in the Lord of the Ring game setups over time, didn't they?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:17

With some well, I've had a turn-based PG kind of rip-off. Uh we had the action into the screen or in along the screen, two towers and the Return of the King movie tie-in. Return of the King obviously being the probably standout one because it had the multiplayer in for the first time. Um, and then obviously as the franchise continued, obviously we we we got a few different things, but to me, this fit the franchise quite well, I'll be honest. Um probably does fit the franchise quite well. I know Lord of the Rings is all about more sort of intimate moments, but uh, let's face it, the films makers just want to watch them so we can see orcs and humans kicking the living snot out of each other, to be honest with you, in a medieval fantasy, so why not give people a little bit more of that uh testosterone fueled um Urukai control, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:15

Um, and you don't also nowadays you don't seem to get a movie franchise that has so many spin-offs of genre of games, do you you seem to tend to get that one game and it either does well or it doesn't, and a bit of a generic genre, but you know, like you say, with JRPG to RTS to third person action, I mean they covered all bases for these games. I know it went to obviously different developers and bits and pieces, and I know there was also am I right in thinking there was the the book tying games and the film tying games, is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:49

We're like Fellowship of the Ring was like I think there's Fellowship of the Ring launched on original Xbox and PS2 and PC that was more of a treading of the one of the the first movie and the first book, because if memory serves, I think it had a a large section of maybe Tom Bombardil in it, so it really is true to the book, not the movie. Um but they just did that one, one and done, and then EA picked up the franchise and and knocked out really the rest of the subsequent games. Um yeah, really, really quite as you say. Well, what I'm gonna end with this is Looks like Cash-Ins are back on the menu, boys. Uh as I rather unlike me, I'm gonna have a little pick around in the boot and I'm gonna pull out, I think for you, but maybe also for me, to scratch that 2004 curiosity, because there is nothing more premium of an era than a sports game of that era, and we've got pro Evo Socco Socco Socco Socco. That's not something the policeman would shout, but no, scenes of crime officer. Um, no, this is Pro Evo Soccer 4, yeah, not pro evolution scene of crimes officer 4. As we talked about at the top of the show, I was like, didn't we? And this is when they were yeah, this is the next evolution of that, and I'll be honest with you, this really is for me when the game hit the mainstream, or at least kind of broke that zeitgeist.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:19

It was supposed to charge, it was uh there were obviously lots of football games around, but you weren't really that discerning jazz player gamer unless you were a Pro Evo guy. If you were FIFA, you were derided, you were you were dum-dum.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:34

Yeah, and yeah, I remember this is I didn't buy many games down date then because of finances, but this Pro Evo I did. As soon as it came out, I was on this Pro Revolution Soccer 4, and just to see this slightly improved graphics and the roster and how that expanded, how was Master League different? What competitions could you play? What youths could you bring through? Yeah, they were then really finding their feet with four, and then obviously with five and six. You know, they may not have the licenses, they had the players on the front. You were getting your Adrianos and that on the front. These were big world stars at the time, they were so yeah, and I still find it interesting, you know, no disrespect that you know, even back in the day I kept thinking, God, Konami's making a sports game, and they're doing it really well, you know. You think of Konami's metal gear solid, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:23

But mate, in a way, as I said at the top of the show when I went through the games I've been playing, they had a strong year in 2000. They did. There's no doubt about the fact that they slapped themselves right up there. Snake Ear, Silent Hill 4, Firefighter FD 18, this, and and others that we haven't brought to the table today. Wow. Look at them now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:54

It was a slow fall, but it's not been a pretty one. They done that sort of Metal Gear Survivor sort of thing, didn't they?

What We’ll Play Next And Closing

SPEAKER_03 1:33:02

And that sort of I think the rather public fallout, and who would have thought this in 2004 with Hideokajima probably kinda it hurt them more than they realised, I think. Now our studio is a hell of a lot bigger than one game director, don't get me wrong, but that played out in a very vocal way. Yeah, it didn't need to be seen by us gamers, really. Did it then it didn't? And alright, yeah, you might own the franchise, fair play to you, but they're nothing without the guy that made them, as you've just worked out. Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:33

You can slap you can slap a name on anything, but if it's not got the essence of the game in it, then you're done.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:40

Exactly. Like every now and then you might get a kind of remake that kind of rediscovers the magic when it's handled by a different developer, but not really. And I think that the painful thing is he was actually a proper paid-up salary man for him to use the Japanese term, he was all in on them till death, and he's not at the beginning of his career. So for this fallout to happen at the end of his career, or what you could argue really in terms of anyone's normal employment, it's definitely towards the end of his career. Ouch. Um but fair play to him, strengthening his own name and brand has allowed him to develop his own studio, produce a couple of amazing games and some ideas that are winging their way to Xbox and other platforms, utilising sort of Hideo's take on sort of different technology. So I'm quite excited to see what he's got next. But yeah, in this era, he was sort of high on the laurels of the James Bond inspired Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater, which let's face it, even last night when I was playing it, Rachel popped her eyes up and went, That looks impressive. I was like, Yeah. In fact, this whole slew of games from Konami in 2004 look graphically super great.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:56

I mean, I've recently went back and played through a few of the Pro Evo games, um, and they're still really playable. You go back to some of the old FIFA's of this era and they're a little bit jank. But the Pro Evo's you can still play them and have great fun with them now.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:12

Pro Evo had an angle for realism, but what made it really work is it had a kind of artistic flair to it that was kind of there from the ISS days, which meant it wasn't photo realistic, but it it it was a bit more like that San Anne scenario versus maybe driver three, like yeah, maybe not as like we haven't scanned in the face of Thierry Henry here, but we've drawn him and it's kind of captured him in a more iconic way. It feels more him, yeah. The arena feels more him, the football and the camera angle feels more football. It it it just nailed it, and I think FIFA robbed the elements that we kind of knowingly knew were good, and then stitched them into FIFA. And as you say, I never really thought about this, but the faux par of not bringing one out left people just going, all right, it's dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:01

It wasn't dead, but no, it wasn't, but they just yeah, they missed they missed a massive trick there, but such a shame. Um few other games that were coming out in December. Uh Mario Party 6. Wow, yeah, Mario Party 6 on the GameCube. Um over on the Game Boy Advance, we had Metal Slug Advance. Um, I've never played that one on the advance. I suppose it is just Metal Slug in the handheld version.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:28

I would yeah, during my tidy up the the other day, I stumbled across my Neo Geo pocket and hit had uh a load of metal gear.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:35

Oh, you've got a Neo Geo pocket.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:37

Yeah, quite the highbrow kind of jazz enthusiast myself. Um I've obviously got the baseball game in there. I think it's got Turf Masters in the little bag. Um I've got it like a little carry bag. Uh I've got um oh what they're famous for, the rivals fighting game, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:56

King of Fighters, maybe King of Fighters always uh the samurai one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:01

Yeah, I've got both of those in there. Again, this is not not of that moment, but the metal slugs just feel so good. And on GBA as well, like you can get away with so much on that little screen, but getting metal slug running and looking and feeling like a metal slug is an achievement. And I I would say kudos to him because it's banging on there.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:20

Yeah, yeah, I bet it is. Um we had uh Ridge Racer DS. Forgotten that even came out on the DS. Please don't say you're steering with a with the little um uh what do you call it? The little you probably are, but the stylist you probably are. Yeah, that's gonna be uh that's gonna be an interesting one. We also had Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories on the Game Boy Advance. Another one that would probably be decent on the Game Boy.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:50

Yeah, Chain of Memories is really quite well, you know, remembered. Um I don't yeah, I don't know if I've played the original or sort of the remesh versions on the sort of the packs. I never had this on original hardware, I don't have this on original hardware as far as I'm aware, but I do believe it's on one of the re-releases packing trilogy jobs. Um I mean I I love the game, it's blatantly what it is, it is what it is, but you know, I think there's something quite sweet about the nostalgia of Kingdom Hearts, not only for the movie characters that you that you kind of go through the worlds of, but just generally the game itself, and obviously it's a callback for them for the Final Fantasy series as well, a little bit. So yeah, never a bad word to say about that, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:42

Um and finally, I noticed on there um in December 22nd came out NFL Street 2. Now, did you ever play any of the street sort of versions they don't have games?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:52

I'll be honest, I didn't play the streets, but one thing I was gonna mention, I do believe the ESPN NFL 2K series sort of popped out here about now on PS2. So I have really great memories of ESPN NFL 2K5, which I played the wheels off in 2004, and it's brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:12

Me and my mate played MBA Street, they were great games, MBA.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:16

The street games, I don't know why, but they never really kind of grabbed me in the way that the kind of big games did. They always kind of felt like little bite-sized portions like feet street and all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:26

Yeah, but if you play MBA Street, with that, you start off in your town, and you have your that's like I think it's three on three or four on four basketball, and you play in these different areas, rough city streets and on the courts. When you beat a team, you can you get a lot of booster bars where you can do special specials, but when you beat a team, you can select one of their team members to come over to improve your team, and you work your way through districts building your team up to take the best team on. It is brilliant. It's really well made, very under form. Of that game, but yeah, NBA Street, uh really, really good game. That's just what made me think of this NFL one because I never played the NFL. I thought, I wonder if that's a similar premise. I bet it is. Because they're very, very addictive and great fun games. You get that boost gauge up and do the the big trick. And we used to play two player and work our way through the teams, and yeah, fantastic. I think they're pretty cheap to buy as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:21

But yeah, so in the UK, especially if they'll be dirt cheap.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:25

Yeah, definitely. Um, what are you gonna pick is your mummy mummy, then George?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:30

Look out the way look out the way, Ray. Slide slide the passenger seat forward because I'm taking home UK Student House Volume 2. That's what I was watching in 2004.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:43

What are you gonna pick is your mummy mummy game, though?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:46

Oh yeah before we get to the uh films. From this list, I'm taking home uh of course I'm gonna take home uh Nice the old Republic 2.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:02

Well I'm there's only one game I can really pick is my Mummy Mummy and that's Pro Evo 4. It's gotta be for me. Um that was the year I was right into my Pro Evo, so yeah, that'd be mine. Um what did you say was your film pick for this month? Did you just say? Don't Google it, but UK Student House Volume 2. Oh dear, is that that a bit blue?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:24

Well, it was from the front passenger seat, RGT. It's got Angel Long on the front cover. What do you want me to say?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:30

I'm just gonna move on. Um I am I've gone from one extreme to the other because I'm gonna pick one of Mrs. RGT's and my daughter's favourite films, Polar Express. That's what I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:42

That's a safe bet, twos up. Yeah. I'll tell you what, midweek we'll do a swapsy.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:48

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:49

Done. Yeah, so I've only watched five minutes of this time and time again. I'd love to see how the story unfolds. Does the rent get paid or no? I can't seem to get past the first maybe two minutes. Well nothing really kicks in, so five. Fair play. There's there's a bit of story. Oh, okay. Wow, that's different. Intro titles, a bit of story, you know, you gotta answer the door, open the door, what are you doing here, need to rent, okay, I'm a student, I've got a lot of money, blah blah blah, well that's a bit difficult. Oh I've got some problems with the house.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:24

Quite a generic story, then yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:27

You know, a little bit further on, you know, all of a sudden they're they're hosting like an Ann Summers party. Yeah. Uh thank God for chapter selections on DVDs. Exactly. Yeah. Just to get a little bit more use out of it. Uh you wanted 2000.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:47

Maybe one day you'll see the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:49

Doubtful. Doubtful. I think that the moment you do see the end credits on one of these movies, you know you probably need to quit. Yeah. You're done.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:01

Coconut, like oh that bomb shell.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:08

So what are you hoping to play?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:10

Um, well, from that, like I say, from that list is gonna be uh Or just generally your games of 2004.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:17

What do you think you're gonna play?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:18

Oh god, for just from going through what we had, you know, the selection is unbelievable at that era when from you know your Spider-Man 2s to your GTA San Andreas is definitely gonna be San Andreas. Um probably take a little look at driver three to see if I can still scratch that GTA itch, but it's gonna be disappointing. Have you got it?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

Physical realm. I need to check if I have. It might be in the box of tat that I'm putting in the loft, so I might need to act quick if I haven't got it. But I think I'm gonna carry on playing a little bit of Metal Gear Solid 3, uh Snake Eater. I'm gonna do a little bit of Silent Hill for the room just because my interest is peaked, because of how weird it is. Um I've always got Firefighter FD 18 in the circulation, but I shall be honest with you, I'm mainly probably gonna be playing San Am. It's a work of genius, it's a work of art. It is we've we've been the GTA podcast lately, RGT, I have to admit, my sort of retreads of four and my plays of the PSP version. I mean, I don't suppose it does our searchability any harm with the impending mega mega sword of uh GTA 6 coming down the pipeline. And it will certainly put us in a good place to talk about it uh from a sort of historic point of view. So I think we shall continue with this, but yeah, that's what I'm gonna mainly uh be getting into. I think I might um just have another research of games from 2004 because the list is endless and we've only literally just we've only got a first base for 2004 on this episode, so I wasn't joking when I said we'd come back 365 other times because this is a great era, it's a great year. Um button will be jumping back on the other mumps and you know if you don't, I will have your guts for gators. Um I've heard that sometimes. Uh no worries. At least they're quite nice on my fly as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:13

Oh, I think well that's our our little look back at November 2004, looking at what was coming out in December 2004. Really enjoyed that. Um made me realise how lucky we were as gamers in the year and how good that time was. Um but thanks for listening. Thanks for downloading. Don't forget Unafficial Controller Podcast as well. Jump over there, um, download the shows there, have a listen to us, our other show there, which is nearly 300 episodes deep. Check us out on YouTube. Um we now have the flashback um listens on there on our Unafficial Controller Podcast. So you can have a listen on there, give us a comment, give us a sub, um, and I hope you enjoy the show. Thanks to you, George, again, as always. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:56

Thank you for allowing me to thank you for inviting me on, I suppose. Uh I've I'm loving flashback, I'm loving the nostalgia journeys with you and the listeners. I think we've got a collection of some uh nostalgic feedback not only for the Christmas episode, but some generic um console memories that we need to weave in going forward. So thank you to everybody that's been involved. Thank you to everybody that's emailing us for mentions on the main show as well. Uh don't forget if you like what you're hearing, you can hop across to the main show and support us from as little as three dollars a month. Yes, I said dollars. That's not real money, don't even worry about it. Um lots of different ways to get involved with the show, the Discord, etc. etc. But that's for your discovery journey in the wider things. Decided to be the show's CEO if I didn't come in here and mention the smorgasbord of other free stuff that we offer you up. Uh and the hours and hours and hours and hours of content to keep you occupied in your headphones, doing whatever it is that you're doing, wherever it is that you're doing whatever it is you're doing. Probably not Student House Volume 2. There's probably newer videos than that now, RGT. Uh but with that I say sign R and thank you to you and everybody that's listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:10

No problem at all. Um, just leaves me to say flashback, the games you loved, the stories you forgot. Until next time, I'll see you then, George. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:21

Goodbye, everybody.