Flashback
Take a walk through gaming history as we pick a random date in gaming history and bring you the news from that time as if it was now , different era every week - covering all of gaming history
Flashback
A look at gaming in September 2003
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What if one month could showcase everything games do well—and everything the industry gets wrong? We jump back to September 2003, a stacked stretch where Project Gotham Racing 2 perfected the balance between sim feedback and arcade swagger, F1 Career Challenge stitched four seasons into a single, satisfying career, and Tiger Woods 2004 hit that sweet spot of easy-to-learn, hard-to-master golf. We trace why Wind Waker’s art direction aged into timeless charm, how KOTOR planted the seeds for modern cinematic RPGs, and why SSX3 still feels like pure velocity in a bottle.
It wasn’t all wins, and that’s where the lessons land. We revisit the painful rollout of Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness and the high-profile handoff from Core Design to Crystal Dynamics—an early reminder that hype and technology shifts can break beloved series. Then we pull back the curtain on the era’s “channel stuffing” investigations, exploring how shipped vs. sold numbers distorted the charts and shaped buying decisions. And yes, we talk iToy: a marketing rocket that flared bright, then faded, proving that novelty without longevity rarely moves the culture.
Along the way we share memories of late-night time trials, couch competitions, GBA backlit envy, and the joy of games that reward craft over chaos. If you love retro racing finesse, RPG storytelling, and sports titles with a heartbeat, this trip to 2003 will feel like coming home. Hit play, then tell us your pick for the most enduring game of that month. If you enjoy the show, subscribe, share it with a friend, and drop a review so more curious players can find us.
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Opening Banter & Format Shift
SPEAKER_05Hello and welcome to Flashback, episode six. The games you loved, the stories you forgot. And it's me, RGT, and as always, joined by the ever-youthful, the UCP man himself, our Lord and Saviour of Games. It is George. How are you, George?
SPEAKER_00I feel like I'm being sort of defrosted and sort of woken up and sort of injected into this situation. A little bit universal soldier, if I'm honest with you, but yeah, mate, I'm doing good. Uh a little bit sort of bandy-legged off to the off the kind of after-show partition shenanigans of the 300th must be celebrated episode of the main show, the UCP. As I noticed, even Google's been abbreviating it too lately, so it's down with the kids. Um the Google AI algorithms like that. The cool kids calling it UCP. Are they fine? Um, but now with all that aside, I've turned up sort of sort of half dressed, um, to impress uh to record another great episode of Flashy Beat. Um I'm pumped up and ready to grab the old school controllers like a like a bull's horns, basically, RGT. Let's have at them.
Setting The Stage: September 2003
SPEAKER_05Awesome, yeah. Well, this this week's episode, like I say, it's episode six, and we're covering um September 2003. So it's gonna be interesting to see what um if you're new to the show, we will do a bit of what we would have been playing in this era, um, a bit of news for the current time, and uh we'll be going out with uh you know a bit of a pick of a game that we would have been hoping to play as well. So similar to the UCP show, but with with a retro vibe to it. Um also um a bit of housekeeping before we move on. Um going forward, this this show obviously you've got now, which is is on the Sunday. Um from next week, we will be releasing this on a Tuesday. Um basically, we don't want you gorging too much on UCP and flashback all in one sitting. So we're gonna we're gonna spread it out a bit for you so you get your Sunday release show and then you get your Tuesday flashback as well, alright? So we're gonna be trialling that as from next week's show, episode seven. All right, so that'll be.
SPEAKER_00We're trying to get your ears ripped like most of our listeners. At the minute, they're fat, sort of bourgeois pigs, aren't they? Just they don't know what to eat first. Flashy bee, UCP, I'll give it me, give it to me. It's free as well. Keep giving it to me. Wait, slow down, chew your food. Okay, flashy beer come Tuesday. It's all good. You'll thank us in the end. You will.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Savour and all them rennies. So you go.
SPEAKER_00Well, but knowing our listeners, flashy peas flashy bees probably done and dusted by Monday dinner time. So I don't you know. We're just trying to spread it out for you a little bit. Um if that's completely against what you want, then let us know. But we think you'll thank us in the end and hopefully uh find some new listeners along the way. Um 2003, you say, RGT.
SPEAKER_05Yep, September 2003, which um sort of when I was writing this show, you I suddenly realised how many banger games were coming out at that time. Um unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, some of the you know, when I do these shows, some of the shows you do, you sort of think, ooh, you know, it's a bit of a struggle to find games that you know we would have liked or would have been playing or were playing at the time. Um, but looking up at this, you're just thinking, My God, we we were quite spoiled. I know I say this a lot um on certain months that we do, but yeah, there was some games coming out, and then because also you thing is our GT question though, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Does Nostalgie take Ty the Tiger into a ten out of ten banger when it should be something you want your fleet on when you walk in the door?
SPEAKER_05Maybe, but I also think that we had more choice then. You know, you had you had sort of more consoles to choose from. It's it's the modern day, it's really bottlenecking down to quite slim pickings as to what you play on nowadays.
SPEAKER_00Can we have a moment for Ty the Tiger?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Tyler Tiger.
SPEAKER_00Just yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I don't think that was a 10 out of 10 banger.
SPEAKER_01Where's his silence, you devil?
SPEAKER_05Does he need a moment?
F1 Career Challenge Deep Dive
SPEAKER_00I don't even know what formats that bad boy came out on, but I'm sure I've seen it. Uh I don't I don't know, RGT. There's lots of games out there now that I think there's maybe more games coming out now, but we just you don't see them maybe because of the the smorgasboard of it. And I think it was maybe similar in 2003 without going a bit over the top, and now with the retrospective time and hindsight, we can actually look back at this moment and pick out a few more of the gems that we as an example. I'm gonna pick out F1 career challenge. What guy in his right mind would pick that game out? I'm going to, and quite in the time, what guy in his right mind would buy that? You're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_05Uh well, yeah, like I say, we we were sort of talking off air a bit about this, and I just sort of cruised over this. I just thought F1 challenge, I didn't, I just thought that was a little spin-off sort of game that EA had done, but then when you started telling me about it, I sort of thought, well, I never realised this is as in-depth a game as it was, really.
SPEAKER_00But it really is, yeah. I can't remember the full intricacies of it, but uh we'll get there when we get to the what you've been playing, or are we there now?
SPEAKER_05I think we're there now, I think. I mean, I mean, if you want to start with that one, and then I'll uh I'll pick a couple out as well. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Alright, well, I've got I've got quite the rave in here, so I'll start with F1 Career Challenge. It it seems nonsensical and a little bit crazy for me to pick this game, and I'll but I'll tell you why I'm picking it. Let me clear my throat. The 300th episode took its toll on every single part of my body. Good good go. Yeah, well, this is that. Um F1 Career Challenge is a game that um came out 2003 as we're talking about, and it's a game that amalgamated the 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 seasons into one complete package. Uh, each year had the correct drivers in the correct teams with the correct deliveries with the correct circuits. I think if memory serves, and it's been a long time since I've even seen this game, and that would have been circa in that moment as well. Um, I think there were like career choices and bits and bobs to pick along the way as well, which made it super exciting to me. I used to watch my friend Pat, but oh, can I have a go? No, get off. Like, all right.
SPEAKER_05So you you actually you do do the races, you're not a manager sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00You do you absolutely do the races, yeah. 100%. It's a full-on Grand Prix simulator, but instead of just the one season that they're normally booking shill you for, this time it's it's four. I don't know whether it's we talked earlier off air, I don't know. Obviously, Sony had the license for the longest time up until that point, um, with Sygnosis. Then I think it went adrift for a while. So maybe this was EA Swan song before Sony then picked it up again to take it into the end of the PS2 early part of the PS3 year, if you remember. Um, you know, their F1 games were well regarded. They look a little bit sort of scant now, but from a simulator point of view, they were there or thereabouts, especially tail end of the PS2, early part of the PS3. But this little standout talk from EA absolutely banging. And I, you know, I implore anyone with a slight interest in F1 to to go check it out. Um it's full Michael Schumacher, don't get me wrong, but uh smattering of McLaren at the start, so one would think you might be adding.
SPEAKER_05Do you still start in Carton or do you just start as a No no no no no you do start in those years of F1.
Project Gotham Racing 2’s Lasting Magic
SPEAKER_00It's not quite as it's not quite that game, RGT, although you know, the way my brain goes after the reveal of the 300th episode, you can imagine in my dreams I'm thinking cart in, you know, junior formulas into F1, have those four years. It's not quite that, but it it's still it's still pretty strong. Sticking with a similar theme, if I may be so um bold, RGT. One of the other games I want to talk about, wax lyrical, if I may, is uh Project Gotham Racing 2 on the original Xbox. In my mind, in fact, let's let's pave the road here. I was a big Dreamcast fan, big Dreamcast user. I think my favourite game, or two games on this system, they're kind of equally tied in terms of nostalgia and joy and return to me. Shame you is an obvious one straight out the gates, it's the game that's most associated with the console. But to me, the game that's secondarily or primarily most or jointly primarily associated with the original um with the Dreamcast is Metropolis Street Racer. It's it did a sharp turn, it gave me the reward in handling but wrapped in the simulation guys because I know if I jump in a car, I'm gonna be able to rag it up the road. Obviously, I have a licence I can drive, but sometimes when I get on these racing games, I'll spag it in a bush within 10 minutes, and it's like that's not quite where I think I'm at. Um but PGR it gave it the arcade tweaks, but you could still feel the back end getting away from you, you could still feel it under steering as you went into a corner, so it had that slight soft touch of arcade, a slight top soft touch of sim that made you keep coming back, each car handled differently. The way the cars looked. Now, I was a big GT4 fan, I think that game looks incredible even to this day. There's got to be times that anyone would have to admit that PGR2 is making it just look embarrassed. Um, it's not got the customization, it's got not got that level of interactivity, but the reward of the Kudos system, which started in MSR, progressed into Project Gotham Racing, and ended up in Project Gotham Racing 2, is uh very rewarding. All of a sudden you're being punished for and it was kind of the first game that sort of said, no, you can't just get by someone by pushing them into the wall, dude. That's that's like that's not cool. That's that's that's negative kudos. If you get round him by power sliding round the complete outside of him on a hairpin, that's major kudos, dude. That's like incredible, and it rewards you, you know, it rewards clean racing, it rewards tidy laps, it rewards show boating. And one of the sort of primary concerns with the kudos system was are you just going to be able to win everything by just power sliding everywhere? Well, no, no, no. It rewards both styles of driving, it rewards the show boater, but it also rewards the the tidy guy, the guy who does it right, the guy who just sort of you know when you see a car go through a chicane and it just kind of just hunches from one side of itself to the next, boom, boom, boom, it just kind of hops across its wheels. PGR gives you that feeling. Um, I I remember me and OG Tom playing this game back in the day, we would do time trials on a circuit and just go and go and go and go, and each person would go until they beat the time, then the other person would go until they beat the time, and you'd race a ghost. And I remember sort of following this tom ghost, and somehow we managed to kind of just do this little sort of bunny hop as he went into a corner, which gave him I don't know, it was a glitch or what, but it kind of gave him like this little extra turn of speed. And I remember spending ages then chugging this car in trying to get it to go in the same way, like, come on, come on, get in there, turn in there. Finally managed to sort of not replicate Tom's audacious. We called it the bunny hop for a long time afterwards. If I followed him in his car anywhere, I'd be like, Oh, bunny hop. No, mate. And we had such the greatest time. I remember um my brother-in-law popped over in sort of circa 2003, I think it was. Me and Tom were playing this game, just one of those sort of coming together moments. Uh, just he randomly appeared and we dragged him in and showed him this. And he he was blown away by it. The different cars, the way the handle, the way you could feel like the kind of we're talking early vibration technology, but it felt like you were feeling the rumble of the tyres in there, and yeah, it's a special, special game. I think I do think it's a shame that it's kind of been lost to time a little bit, but Forza Horizon kind of picked up the mantle that PGR put down and ran with it. The open roads, all that sort of stuff, it's all we could have ever dreamed of.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think um I think with Project Gotham as well, you've got to remember at the time there wasn't really anything sort of pushing that sim side of stuff on consoles. I know you had your rally games and you had things like Tocker, but they'd never really, you know, they still had that arcadey feel to them. Whereas Project Gotham, you know, suddenly thought, hang on, let's do let's concentrate on people who really into their cars, people who want to handle and people who want to get them laps quicker and quicker. And coming from Metropolis Street Racer as well, I mean, playing that game, you play that on a Dreamcast now, and some of the bits you have to do are tough on there because you have to nail them laps. I mean, that is a tough game.
SPEAKER_00I love it though, dude.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and that's the thing that that they really sort of separated themselves from the arcade racer, and even though, like you say, Forza took it on, they still had that more arcadey side. Whereas always the thing I liked about Project Gotham is they did have that sort of sim side to them where you had to really nail that lap. Um, and quite ahead of us time, really. I mean, nowadays we've we've got the Forza Motorsports and we've got the Grand Turismos and we've got the um Aseto courses, but then you didn't have any of those really. I mean, you had your Grand Turismos, but this even then, I still think Project Gotham had that bit more sim about it for for handling for the for nailing them them laps.
SPEAKER_00Like I say, it nailed the handling in terms of like we're gonna give you a like a 10% pass in the fact that we we're gonna let you we're gonna assume that you can drive to some degree, so we're gonna sort of gloss over that part of the sim and then let put you in the car and let you feel like a hero. Yeah, and that's I think in terms of like sim handling versus arcade handling, I wouldn't call it directly arcade, I would call it that. They've they've built into the engine the allowance that you're not a complete idiot and you're not gonna get caught in a three-point turn doing an Austin Powers in the middle of like you know Oxford Street in London. They're like, no, no, these guys are beyond that, these are serious races, so we're gonna give them a 20% skill boost, and then it's all on them, and then you really do feel like you've got the R S end of an F40 hanging out round a hairpin, it makes it special, RGT.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it definitely does, yeah. Is there anything else on here that's tick your fancy, George?
GTA Double Pack And Wind Waker Reflections
SPEAKER_00Oh mate, I mean there's a couple of things I want to dwell on. Um I do believe September 2003, according to this list, is when we got the Grand Theft Auto double pack ahead of the San Anne release. So we got the double pack, it was on all formats primarily the place where people were wanting to get it was the original Xbox console, and this silver pack did absolute gangbuster numbers on there. Obviously, OG Xbox owners had been sort of throat slit, wanting a bit of the GTA action, uh, and they finally got it served up in probably the best way to play in on the home console formats in that moment.
SPEAKER_05Um literally a PC port, pretty much, you know.
SPEAKER_00Pretty much, and it looked bang on, it kind of did look ahead of where the PST version was. Admittedly, this is post-launch, so they've had time to mess around with it, and the OG Xbox is more powerful. Um, so I'm not gonna waste too much time talking about that. I do um I do believe you've got Wind Waker down here in the number one spot, which is absolutely brilliant to see. A game that I think over time people have softened on a bit. Um it it took a bit of kicking at the time because people wanted a realistic grown-up Zelda for some reason. Tom was like first in the queue. No, I want Aragorn. No, mate, you you know alright, Tom. Okay, but then they served up this, which is not what any of the sort of hardcore I say the hardcore, we're kids who had Ocarina of time who who'd grown up and wanted to see a badass version of that. Well, do you know what Nintendo will decide what Link looks like, guys? Um and it's this, and do you know what? Actually, time has been kind to this game. The cell shading, the re-release, I think on the Wii U gave this game probably the legs it deserved. Uh anyone who's played it enjoyed the traversal scene mechanic traversals. Um have enjoyed like just a different, more I'd say cosy, but it's not, but just I find, because of the graphics and everything, a real cozy take. Um one of the the other game, the only other game I think I wanted to uh I want to do a nod to Beautiful Joe, because it's doing things that in other games weren't at the time. And I also want to, without um dumping all over your time, RGT, is Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic again. My eyes aren't very good anymore, RGT. Is that the sequel? I think it is, isn't it? Uh Knights of the Old Republic 2.
SPEAKER_05Let's have a look here. I think I might uh I think it's the original, I think.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, I think we spoke about it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that came out, yeah. That was that had been out a couple of months. That was out in the July, but a a lot of people were then getting on board with it, I think, in the September.
SPEAKER_00Um Right, okay. Well that that game, I mean, I've most recently played it through on Switch. I think I talked about this on episode of Flashy B most recently. You can even get it on iPhone now. Yeah, it looks a bit janky at times, but the story it tells, the scale it tells it on. This is Pro Magnum Mass Effect, basically. So if you like that in any way, you must check this out because this is the these are the seeds that grew into Mass Effect and actually wrapped in a Star Wars cloak. Nights of the you don't need some aged podcast or nostalgia show to tell you about how good Nights of the Republic is. Just so many places to play it, get on it now. One last thing, RGT, and I've just seen it out of the corner of my eye. Super Mario Bros. 3, aka the Game Boy Advance Super Mario Advance 4, or whatever stupid thing they did with the numbering connotations there. Those GBA hot releases of the NES Stroke SNES All-Stars versions of Super Mario 1, 2, and 3 were great. I had a little GBA at the time, I lived away. GBA was probably my only gaming device in that moment, and it nailed it on every single time. As soon as you put that little form factor in, that screen, admittedly, I had the OG GBA, so I had to stand under a fluorescent light just to see it. Um, one of my mates had the flip up um SP with a batlit screen, and he was sat playing it in the dark, and I could see from my bed his screen looking so pristine. I could have played it from six foot away, and then I peered down at my OG because I was like the main dude because I got oh, George, what's that game? Well, yeah, it's the new game. Game Boy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone was like, mmm. Then in walks dude with his flip top, you know, and this is the time of flip top phones as well, and the GBASP just look banging. Um, anyway, there's O'Georgie squinting underneath a fluorescent light with the with the console about let's face it, for the Imperial measurements here, guys, for listeners in America. About 1.5 inches from my eye, from my retina itself, just to see this gorgeous pixel glory. Fun little place to play it, great game to take on the Go RGT. Obviously, there's a plethora of places and emulation devices you can play it on now. Um, one last thing before I hand the baton over to you because I've been very excited. On the main show, and I think this stands here on Flashy B. I did order an emulation device.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yes. I forgot to ask you about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, we won't cross the streams here, but just to let you know that the the review I must remember to tell you about in next episode is because it arrived, that's the main thing. Oh, it arrived, yeah. Not in time for Christmas, but that was always gonna be a push. Uh even I thought that's bold, you're saying you'll get it to me before Christmas. That's uh okay, we'll go. And I bought the full slew of everything you could get, only one console. Uh, and I'll feed back. I I have had some fun with it. Um I have had some fun with it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, okay. I'll be interested to hear the uh the full review of this uh piece of tech.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, so as I say, there's so many different ways to take a little Mario game on the go with you now, but you really probably still can't beat slapping that cart in an SP sitting on a wall in the middle of town drinking energy drinks and throwing things at I don't know, people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I don't know about the throwing things at people, but you know.
KOTOR’s Legacy And GBA Mario Nostalgia
SPEAKER_00Sweet rappers, anti county pop, yeah, said Jeremy for the bin. I don't know. What what what what have you been playing in in September 2003, good sir?
SPEAKER_05Um well I was looking here, um, it's a few sort of just after September, just roundabout September, some just before, but one that released 22nd September 2003, Tiger Woods 2004. Now most people are gonna be saying, what are you on about? Oh no, no. A 50 pence charity shop old golf game. Now, seriously, this is I think when Tiger Woods peaked. Tigerwoods 2004 is such an advantage game game.
SPEAKER_00Sorry to interrupt, mate, but show me five, I'll slap you in the face. Six, seven, eight, nine, dirty to me. Four. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_05And we've me and you have played this together many a time. This is such an addictive game. Yes, it's arcadey, yes, it's not your Rory McElroy PGAs, it's it's nothing like that. It's not that as in-depth, but it is so addictive because it's very easy to play, but then when you start mastering it and you start getting them back spins and you're playing against each other and you're getting holes done really quick and getting underpowered, it's so addictive. Still looks really good, I think.
SPEAKER_00I I was gonna say at the time it looked pinch of salt boys, because we only knew what we knew, but at the time that game was bordering on photorealism, some of the extra details in the animation that he was doing. Uh the whole game to me, I don't know whether I just got it at the right time, but it felt like a I don't mean when I say a golf club, I don't mean one that you put in your bag, I mean like a golf club where you go to play golf, a golf course, but the clubhouse, it felt like everything had been crammed into this disc. You put it in machine, and you could go to any golf course in the world and dude. This game, you say it's arcadey, but everything that came after it was extreme arcade. This was like that we talked about PGR, it's that perfect Marie of Sim and Arcade. It's like okay, we're gonna give you the clearance that you've played in this game, so you don't want to have an awful golf experience. So we're gonna give you a 20% pass that you're good at golf. So good, mate. Tell me about your experience.
SPEAKER_05Um, I was into my Tiger Woods games then. Um it was the golf game to play at the time, um, and then 2004 come out, and I've I got funny thing, I bought it just after release, um month, maybe two months after release. And then I mean we didn't have clock counters on our consoles then, but I would have put hundreds of hours into this because you would you could start off with your character, you could start off in career mode, you could start off in the local tournaments, work your way up, get yourself in the PGA tours and win your money. And I remember sitting there and playing competitions and then sometimes bottling it, you know. I was you know, oh no, last couple of holes I started panicking and bogies and stuff, and and I just thought, bloody hell, this is this really is an addictive or it's not a golf simulator because it's arcade play, but the lifestyle of you know getting into the same with the club and and getting the clothes, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I even went on to um later on when I got my PSP. Um, I got the started getting the Tiger games for that, and just I even remember at work we had a snow day at work, um, and I thought years ago at work, you know, and I'm sidetracking here, but you know, we would have gone out in snow anything, but anyway, nowadays it's all health and safety, blah blah blah. So you have to go into work, you have to wait for a decision. We have a snow, and I thought, I got an idea it's gonna be a snow day. I'm gonna tap my PSP in with me, Tiger Woods in. Anyway, when you get into work, they basically say to you, Well, you can go home and then owe us the hours, or you can sit and wait at work because obviously we can't provide your work until your time's up and then go home. So I thought, well, I'm gonna tap my PSP and I don't want to owe them hours. So I sat at work, Tiger Woods on there, just plan my career mode. Everyone else sitting at work, what you plan? What you plan? Oh, I'm Tiger Woods. I'm like, oh no way. By the end of it, I had four people sitting around me. Go on, son, go on, son, chip in, chip in, you got him, you got it, you know. And I was playing my career mode, and even now when I look back at the corner.
SPEAKER_00Did you make it a bit more tech demo-y then, though? Did you start like oh god, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, oh god, yeah. I was like I was working in Dixon's as a salesman. Just look at this, guys. Look at this. Watch me select my club, right? I'm now hitting the bottom of the ball. Watch this, bang, bang, bang, backspin, backspin, look at that. I hit over the hole, backspin to the hole. Oh my god, that's just like real life. Yeah. Uh all in your pocket, yep, all in my pocket.
SPEAKER_00What that must have look like on P at the time it would have looked phenomenal. Yeah, I'm gonna go load that up on PSP after the show.
SPEAKER_05The only thing that your character used to constantly say in the most annoying American accent, used to always go, get on the dance floor, get on the dance floor when he used to hit the ball after a while. He used to think, yeah, it's a bit cringy now when you keep saying get on the dance floor.
Tiger Woods 2004: Peak Golf Gaming
SPEAKER_00They were the elements that crept into Tiger Woods, I think killed it for me. I was hyped to see the next iteration of Tiger Woods. Nothing ever hit as hard as the classy not only the menus, but the way the brands were displayed inside it, the way you interacted with the game generally, everything about it was absolutely top tier. It was it was one of those magic in a bottle moments.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, definitely. Um, I just and even now, um I go through periods of playing, I've got loads of just cheap golf games on the satin and things like that, and sometimes you find some of these cheap, worthless golf games actually quite good fun. But you I still don't think you can beat if you want to go and have a really good fun time playing golf, but you don't want the seriousness of the the modern PGAs or the clubhouse, are they called the clubhouse or the golf club?
SPEAKER_00The golf club TGC in it, the golf club, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, which are quite in-depth, almost simulation golf games, but you just want to have a good, really good fun having a round of golf, um, but you don't want to go quite as far as everybody's golf, which is a bit more anime, a bit more cartoony. These are Tiger Woods. If you got a if you've got a PS2, get one of these Tiger Woods games. Literally, they are pence, you'll pick them up for nothing, and they are such good fun, they really are good fun. Get your friends and players.
SPEAKER_00Sadly, it's the era of game and the sort of mass produce of a game and the mass adoption of a game where you'll walk in a charity shop and this might be one of the ones that they just want to give away. Yeah, yeah. Uh don't sniff it. The only other game, golf game that's ever come close to me, I think, is the second PGA tour game on Mega Drive Stroke Genesis. It had the golf club shop at the beginning, and it had the it used to lay like a 3D grid, it was one of the first ones to sort of 3D grid up the green so you could work out the the slide and the then the flow of the green undulations and everything, yeah. And it was we had that on PC at work, but much later on I got it on Mega Drive as one of my retro sort of collection tiles, and uh it was it Road Rush 2, NBA Jam. It's one of those games that actually never left the console. And although this is a 2003 episode, I think it's those sort of games that would have given the mature gamer like our dad something to play on the mega drive until 2-3 in the morning. Um, I can't imagine my dad would ever have picked up Sonic, just can't. But I can imagine him sort of going, What's this golf for? You know, putting it in.
SPEAKER_05That's exactly that. I did you just brought me a back a bit of a nostalgic memory then because I did play PGA Tour 2 with my dad on my mega drive because my dad was a big golfer at the time, he loved his golf, and he'd sit down. Oh, what you got there, son? Oh, I've got PGA. Oh my god, you can see all the undulations of the greener. I was like, Yeah, so he used to sit down and line it up for me. Hang on, son, left a bit, left a bit, left a bit, left a bit. That's it now, now 50% power, 50% power. No, no, there we go, there we go, there we go. In there we go, son. Told you, I'll be your caddy, I'll be your caddy, son. Oh wow, and it all started from when I had a mass system, I got golf for mania. Oh, really? Golf of Mania, that was called a top-down one, but it was the first time I'd seen a golf game where you could go literally have a round of golf, 18 holes. So me and my dad used to sit there with a little massive control, have a round of golf. It used to be absolutely brilliant, and then that's the spun on to PGA when we used to play that. But yeah, I never quite got him on the Tiger Woods games, but a shame because I think he would have seen as we're here.
SPEAKER_00I must give a shout out to MicroPros Golf. They made a golfing sim in the 90s for home computers.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think I remember that. That was on the Tari ST, weren't it? And the Mega.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, the effort you imagine the effort they normally put into their World War Sims, their flight sims, their war sims, their driving sims, their everything. Microprose golf. I'm like, yeah, it didn't maybe look as good as those ones, but it had all the elements in it, you know. It oh so we need to do a flashback golf game special RGT. What other games are you picking out of your golf bag this week?
SPEAKER_05Um, just one more I was looking at, which um I always still find weird to this day. This was out in August uh 2003, but we would have been getting it over here and planned by then, which was um Virtua Fighter um on the PS2. Now I always find that weird because that was at that iteration where Sega was then releasing on different consoles, and it still looks weird because Virtua Fighter, you think of Saturn, you think of Dreamcast. Seeing it on the PS2, really odd, but I mean this had a 93 Metacritic score. I mean so this was a decent, decent fighter at the time, really tatting Street Fighter 2, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, when I've talked before of um games advertised on bus stops, this was another one of those games. This was big and it was well received, mate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was obviously a lot of Sega fans that were then um migrating over to different consoles and especially the PS2. I mean, we all know how well that sold, but yeah, even now I still find it weird seeing these Sega titles, not on a Sega, you know. It was it was a strange time, you know, and obviously we were then getting Sonics on Game Boy Advance and bits and pieces, which was you know, which is weird as well. But yeah, Virtua Fighter, which I mean, still to this dark, I think it's a very expensive game. So for a 93 Metacritic score, that's uh you know, that was hitting hard at the time and tatting lots a lot of these other fighters to the to the absolute limit. Um, yeah, well, I think that's uh pretty much covered what we would have uh hoping to have played in September 2003.
SPEAKER_00By the way, I want to shout out to the OG COD, if I may be so bold. Yeah. And I'd also like to put a shout out to um I think I saw it on here on the first page actually, RGT, of these plethora of games that you sent across. Uh yeah, I know it's only I know it's the third one, but want to just pop a little bit of noise out there for SSX3 as well. Um really hitting this vibe by then, and actually, mate, do you know what? What an absolutely banging games. I I know you've probably got more of an association with them than I have. I've kind of light touched them. But what's your memories of SSX?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I remember SX coming out, and I think it was out in uh about the October, but I think you could import it then in September. It was about uh out in the October time, but I remember um playing the first one and then thinking because I I really loved Cool Borders. I got Cool Borders packed in with my PS1. Um was really and I'd never thought of playing snowboard games before, but cool borders just blew me away. I loved it, I put hours and hours into it. So then when someone said to me, Oh, you tried M SSX games, I was like, No, no, no, I ain't never tried, and then tried it and thought, well, actually, this is a step up from Cool Borders. You know, this is it had that sort of extreme sport X games edge to it at the time, which everyone wanted to be into, whether it be Tony Hawke's skateboard, and but SSX had that snowboard side to it. Quite in-depth games, they were great fun, very arcadey, and a lot of great-looking games, very good looking. Um, especially if you if you played it on the OG Xbox, looked really good. Um, but yeah, uh SSX3. Um, I dabbled with just remember thinking, yeah, it's more of the same, but it's added so much more to it as well. Um, I used to love it when you used to get them really steep downhill sections, and you'd find a pipe, quickly grind, trick, and after a while you'd master it, you'd get these combos going. Brilliant games. Again, I don't think they're very expensive games to pick up today. Um, and you don't you don't tend to get those sort of games released anymore. We don't tend to get them. I know Ubisoft done that sort of all in one game. What was that called? I can't steep steep, and I sort of dabbled with that.
SPEAKER_00I didn't really I've tried to keep go back and keep dabbling with it, and uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_05It's just that sort of online, that really there's no sort of goal to it as well.
Retro Golf Memories And MicroProse Shoutouts
SPEAKER_00I like the idea of having this massive area to just go do what you want in. I like the idea of having all these different sort of extreme sports ways of careering about, but basically you're slogging your guts out to get from one event to the other on the map. They're not that easy to navigate between. Maybe I should just do you know, parachute, whatever it is. But there's something about SSX and those other games where the narrative is like this is the race, this is how it goes. I know probably when we're playing those games, all we yearn for is a mountain, but actually, what we do want is curated courses, tracks, things. I think that's what stopped Steep from hitting for me. When you got into the actual races, it kind of hit a little bit like Amp 3, but when you weren't, it just was the loneliest, most boring I'll do. So SSX is always gonna have that straight to it. Uh I mean you could argue Steep's trying to be a bit simulation, but then I look it in the eye and be like, no, mate, get out. Yeah, yeah, not simulation, you pig.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. That didn't didn't hit for me, and it don't hit like these games did at the time where you literally had rather than a multi uh sports events game, you literally had a game. This is snowboarding, and then you know, away you go, and you had your courses and your tracks and your competitions, and yeah, brilliant. So, yeah, SS SSX3, definitely brilliant for that era. Um, right, I think that moves us on now. Um we scoured the very darkest pages of the game and mags and delved deep into the interweb to bring you what was the latest stories, and these are all from Games TM magazine issue 10 in September 2003. And we start off with um Lara Packs Her Bags. EDOS takes Tomb Raider away from core and hands franchise over to Crystal Dynamics. Core designer creator of Lara Croft has lost us a precious license to another developer. American-based Crystal Dynamics will be developing future instalments of the Tomb Raider franchise as Angel of Darkness is the first part of a proposed trilogy. An official statement from EDOS offers a little comfort for Core's future and that with the company uh sorry, comfort for Core's future with the company. We will now be evaluating Core Design Studios' ongoing ongoing direction and contribution as part of the group's overall development capabilities. With Core Design's recent non-Lara products failing to perform at retail, we feel that there could be some difficult times ahead for the derby-based studio. Problems arose when the highly anticipated Angel of Darkness launched nine months after its original release date. Troubles continued when the game received mixed reviews and was quickly followed by the feroar caused with the industry when Game decided to sell the title several days before its official launch date. Once Angel of Darkness was released, Cause Woes began in earnest. Jeremy Heath Smith, uh EDOS's developer, uh development director and core designs manager director announced that he would be resigning from the boards of both companies with immediate effect while no reason has been given. We suspect that the Angel of Darkness missed the end of EDOS's financial year and could be a critical factor behind a decision. Move company uh movie company Paramount is also blaming Cause uh tardedness for the fact that this latest film, Tomb Raider, the Cradle of Life, has been a flop.
SPEAKER_00EDOS Look at the nuts on Paramount there, Walk.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. EDOS's decision to hand the Tomb Raider licence over to Christopher Dynamics, creator of the Legacy of Cain series, is a brave move and one that is gaining praise throughout the industry. Whilst Kor certainly did an excellent job creating such a global phenomenon, the secret of ongoing success is always uh continued reinvention, says Doug Bone of Andromeda Entertainment Limited. Great name, Doug. Yeah. Despite being a technical and sound development team, uh Crystal Dynamics has never really had a franchise on the scale of Tomb Raider. So this is a shrewd move. I fully expect Miss Croft's next adventure to look, sound, and play better than ever, and hopefully re-infuse the fan base that has been let down by what is the most disappointing game of the year so far. It is unclear how core itself feels about recent events, it has refused to comment.
SPEAKER_00Throw the dugabone, mate. Throw the dug of bone. Well, absolute rap.
SPEAKER_05We always say this, you know, the articles reread of are from an era. I mean, this article is brutal. Everyone's jumping in on core from from you know, Paramount saying, Russ, your fault, our movie. No, your movie flopped because it was crap. Nothing to do with everyone's jumping on top of core designs at the time. You just think, would they speak about a company nowadays like this? You know, it would be a bit more under the radar, but core are they jumping in on them, you know, and being quite open as well about why they're.
SPEAKER_00I would like to uh, if I may, I have some first hand experience. When Angel of Darkness launched, it's been talked about before, I was in the Navy at the time, and a friend of mine, Zippy, was a massive Tomb Raider fan, even at this point. Not even I like Tomb Raider one, uh maybe a bit of nostalgia for two, but then I drifted. This guy was a fully paid up Lara Croft nut. And he had brought his PS2 down, sequestered the television in the mess, everyone was away. I think it was over a weekend. I can't remember the exact day. I feel it was quite wintry. Anyway, he came back on board. I'm buzzing boys. I've got duty this weekend, I can't go anywhere, but I've got the new Angel of Darkness game who wants to watch it. We were like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I watched real time, a man's full enthusiasm for his favourite game of all time, literally get walked into the dirt in front of my very eyes. It was one of the most traumatic and uh because it was the excitement of the new game as well. He came bowling in with a game bag, we're all like, you know, this weekend's just picked up, boys. Look out, this is gonna be great.
SPEAKER_05And boy, it looks as he probably managed to get it three days before release because game sold him early.
Virtua Fighter On PS2 And SSX3
SPEAKER_00Might have been something like that. So he came in like clutching this baggie, and we're all like, Yes, you know what, business just picked up, it's gone from looking like probably the most boring weekend ever. Well, by about Saturday night, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna go do my work. And it's a shame because this walked in with all the hype. Now I know that probably didn't do it any favours, but it was a big game, it looked great in the magazine stills. In the short sort of TV ads we saw, it looked phenomenal. Admittedly, when he first put the game on, you know, walking the streets of I believe Paris, the back streets and the climbing around in the buildings and the navigation between through over and and and through that area was it felt different, but my god, it was hard to navigate. I've gone back to it on PS2 since just to see if I can put the demons to bed. I couldn't. Uh, I'd imagine on the remastered trilogy they've done a little bit something, something with the controls, so this probably the this now is probably in its most playable state on that on that.
SPEAKER_05If I remember rightly, did it have a really dodgy camera as well on Angel Darkness? You could not turn the camera properly to try and find the ledges that you needed to jump on and bitch.
SPEAKER_00I I I'm struggling to remember, but I think the camera sort of limited it. I think Lara's controls with the fixed camera, if that's the case, I do remember it being really awkward. Um maybe the game got better, but actually getting through those first bits to what you would call the traditional tomb raidery elements was like next to impossible. Uh so yeah, I it it's a shame because I think in there is some really great ideas, but sadly it it it landed stiff.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, it was it was a shame as well when you think core design had had really started all this. Um and I don't know, I'd it'd be interesting to speak to someone behind the scenes from the era to see why.
SPEAKER_00Well, don't forget, they've gone crawling back since to try and capture the essence of Lara, haven't they? So, like I'd I'd I don't know, mate.
SPEAKER_05I the most egregious just a too big a game for them, whether they were too small a development team, whether the pressure was on to get it released, whether they're gonna be a few.
SPEAKER_00I think they had Tomb Raider one hit and it was a standout title, it's become part of the very DNA of gaming. You can't talk about gaming without mentioning Lara Croft. You know, some would argue, you know, it predates Mario 64. Is it the first 3D platformer? People could argue, yes, I believe they could. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of legs there. Mario 64 gets the props, no one raves about it, but this game was doing something different very early on in the PS PS's lifetime cycle, very early in the PC kind of 3D cycle, and obviously on the Saturn as well. Um, it was doing something different. I do believe Core got a bit kind of irritative with the because the sequel came out quick and the third game out came out even quicker than that, so they kind of like just busted a nut on those first three games, and it was no disrespect to Core, it was an ever-declining line of happiness in terms of its metacritical scores. Tomb Raider 1 hit hard, two some would argue did better, so maybe it peaked, but then three was a downward step again. Angel of Darkness was then built up to be like the biggest thing since the coming of Jesus, and it was never gonna stick the landing. The most egregious bit in here is Paramount pinning their garbage film on this game. I mean, if there's an excuse for bad homework, you take it, right? And Paramount did. That to me was a knife in the dying pig of core that was unnecessary.
SPEAKER_05It was totally. I mean, how why they've jumped in here, Paramount, and blaming Kor's tardiness for the fact that the latest film, Tomb Raider The Crowd of Life, has been a flop. But I thought, no, the film would have stood on its own two feet if it was good. It wasn't it.
SPEAKER_00Chris Barry's performance saves a Hollywood film, you know shit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you're just like, how can you, you know, we've got an excuse here. Angel of Darkness is flopped. Jump on that now, jump on that now. Let's save some face and just heap the pressure onto core. And I like I say, uh this wouldn't happen nowadays, I don't think, especially worded.lis, for literally for crystal dynamics to be taking over the the future developments, and just literally for the company to just to come out and just say it's all core's fault, they're rubbish, we're taking this away from them, blah blah blah. You know, in in your main game, one of your main gaming magazines in an article, you're just like you're just slating your own property and your own, you know.
SPEAKER_00The the weird thing about it is you could argue that it was the right move to move it away because that trilogy of games we got was actually good.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, it was I think it was the right thing to do, but how they you'd normally kept it more under wraps and just released a small statement, but literally come out on four or five paragraphs slatant core, and then with obviously Paramount jumping on board as well, saying blame them for everything.
SPEAKER_00I don't think it's bad now, but I think it was worse then. There was more media, there was more opportunity to get absolutely lambasted like this, and people didn't care about people's feelings back in the day, dude. They just said it how it was, and it was just like you take it, right? This is a statement of fact, take it how you like, but it is unquestionably a fact. You did a shit job. Yeah, you're right, I admit it. Oh, that's hurt my feelings. God damn your feelings, mate. You did a shit job. Okay, if I protect your feelings, you're never gonna learn here. What an absolute monk.
SPEAKER_05That makes me laugh. That last little paragraph. It's unclear how core feels itself about recent events, it has refused to comment. I can tell you exactly how they feel about it. They are probably absolutely gutted and livered. So I don't think I don't think you can't.
SPEAKER_00I imagine there'd be some there'd be some bitter people, like they're saying it's garbage. Well, if it wasn't for us, they wouldn't even have something to call garbage. There is an element of that there. Um, you know, the people that made the movie. Yeah, you made a bad movie, but without this franchise, you wouldn't even have something to pin your garbage to, yeah, it'd just be garbage in a bin. Uh and and were they respectful of the Team Raider franchise? I don't necessarily think they were.
SPEAKER_05And also, I think you know, their their blunt moan and saying old core, we're taking this away from core, they've messed this up. Hang on, whoa whoa whoa, you released this, you knew damn well what this game was before you released it. You you could have you know maybe delayed this more, you could have you've pushed this out, so don't you know it's a game that was struggling to manifest itself, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00It was nine months late, it was forced out, it was overhyped as well.
SPEAKER_05I can remember. Yeah, I can remember at the time reading before this was released, and everyone that I knew who's a Tomb Raider fan saying, This is the Tomb Raider. Have you seen the steals? Have you seen the screenshots? This is gonna be the biggest and best tomb raider.
SPEAKER_00You imagine though you you say overhyped, but you're what you're working in Core's sort of uh you know advertisements or publication division, and you and you're looking at this Lara Croft seen for the first time on PS2, brand new game, new setting, all this. How could you not overhype? You have to hype that. You have to hype that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Who overhyped it? Then or RGT, may I suggest? Us.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, probably it's probably just everything just accumulated, in it, and like you go back to your friend, you know, he was a you know, a staunch Tomb Raider fan. By the time he got this game, this is the game, who wants to watch me play it ten minutes in. Oh, to see the love of the game just being sucked, the life sucked out of him.
SPEAKER_00You're just like, oh it was it was probably one of the most saddest gaming experience I've ever had to bear witness to. I've never seen anyone's enthusiasm. And I, you know, I think, oh god, that you know, imagine if that had been me. Could oh god, you know, bringing one of my for one of my heroes for everyone to look at, and it falls to its knees in front of everybody, and I have to behead it.
SPEAKER_05Imagine me doing that of uncharted, you know, you're getting uncharted.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly where this kid was at.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, uh oh, that is absolutely brutal, and your whole love for the franchise completely destroyed in 15 minutes ago.
SPEAKER_00Without getting too carried away, I think you can imagine for the first sort of hour he's making excuses to justify his purchase. He's seeing things within this game that I can't see, you know. It feels great. Look at this, look at the detail.
SPEAKER_05I love the way the camera gets stuck in the corner, so you can't actually see your character. That's incredible. Yeah, it makes it feel like you're really stealthy.
SPEAKER_00Well, if the camera was thrown in the air, George, it would get stuck behind ladders, wouldn't it?
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah, I guess you can't just put a camera through a ladder, George.
SPEAKER_00I suppose if you made a film now with a camera on it with a drone camera, and you were trying to swing it around like a video camera, it'd be getting bashed into the walls of the buildings, you'd get stuck behind a wheelie beer, and you're blocked. I'll see my camera, I can only see my character's angle. Yeah, you've you've crashed a drone camera into a yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Oh, bless him.
2003 News: Tomb Raider Studio Switch
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh you ready for another bit of news? Yes, yes, yes. Let me serve you up this. This is from the same magazine as RGT mentioned, the Games magazine issue 10, I believe. Um this one is called The Games Finally Up. Uh, let's get into it. After Nintendo got stung to the tune of 91 million for using channel stuffing techniques in an attempt to increase sales, you'd have thought that the games industry would have learnt its lesson. Now though, Acclaim, Activision, and THQ are currently being investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission, known as the SEC, over claims that have continued that they have continued to ship games to stores, even though the demand isn't there. It's important to note that all companies concerned are currently merely helping out with inquiries at this time and only being asked to supply any information directly related to accounts and accounting practices. It's quite possible that the SEC's current interest in the industry has arisen from its recent investigation into Take Two. Nearly two years worth of Take Two's financial figures were handed over to the Commission after an investigation was launched involving rumoured channel stuffing by the publisher and developer. Channel stuffing is a practice of ordering, offering dealers and distributors special incentives in an attempt to boost sales at the end of a fiscal year, only to then have products returned at a later date. Unsurprisingly, none of the companies involved would state what the SEC are actually investigating, could only offer as a no comment. But it's expected that none will be facing any fines. It seems more likely that the SEC instead used this opportunity to force publishers to base sales figures on the actual number of units sold rather than on the number of games that have been simply shipped to stores. It's also important to remember that it's not only publishers that may come under the ongoing investigation. The Nintendo case involved several high street stores, including Berg Sala A B and John Menzies PLC. The latter faced a£4.5 million fine, so it would not be unreasonable for the SEC to approach this current problem from all possible angles. Nintendo's fine was a fourth largest ever to be handed out to a single company and became headline news when it was announced late last year. With continued rumours, this is simply the beginning of an even wider probe into the whole software industry. We're sure it could be some time before the SEC resit SEC reveals its results, but we'll let you know, well we might not, if anything if we'll let you know what, if anything, it manages to unearth. Sorry, I had an itchy ear and uh realised that we were not going to continue the story of a 10-year-old games magazine. Uh RGT.
SPEAKER_05Yes, I found this very interesting because this is I thought from the era, this is a time where charts meant everything at the time. Sales figures, you wanted your game to be in that top ten in the back of a magazine every month. And by the sayings of this, I mean I'd never heard of this before until I read this magazine article when I was researching for this show. Um, I'd never heard of this sort of sales fixing figures where obviously the sales figures were done from the company themselves before they were sold, they're actually done distributing them to the shops, and then they'd say, We sold 10 million, but because they're on sale return, you got six of them back.
SPEAKER_00But that that wasn't if there'd been a slight change in the wording of the contract to say this isn't on sale or return, as in you're taking these and you need to either depreciate them or hemorrhage sell them to make your return. I don't care what you do. That this would be a totally different story because they were done on sale or return, which meant they could stack the decks even higher and say, Well, don't worry, Men's. If you don't sell those million copies that we force you to put in a warehouse, send back what you don't get. Think of the buying power that you've got though, because you just took a million, so you got them for a penny each.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So they're like, Oh, great, brilliant. And if we don't sell them, we send them back. Yeah, that's right. Uh, what price do we say we sell them? Don't worry about that. We'll sort that out. We'll sort that out, we'll sort that out.
SPEAKER_05We'll sort that. It makes me laugh, you know. And you can imagine these companies at the time saying, our latest game, we've sold two million copies of that. Yeah, but you've probably had 1.2 million back. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00It's it's mate, the boss manner John Menzi's computer video game buying division has accidentally on purpose just been handed the keys to us timeshare in Benadorm as well for the Christmas period. As if by magic, darling, look at this. Sat built like bit sat on a chair bit of copies of Lydia, I don't know, SSX tricky or some dribble.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and you can and you know, and Nintendo being involved in this as well, and you're just like, oh guys, come on.
SPEAKER_00Partially, I think that did the industry need to be inspected like this. I mean, up until this point, I think it could be argued that most people looked at the industry and thought they were selling kids toys. Okay. GTA 3 had just surfaced, by city had surfaced. There were a lot of people paying attention because suddenly games were making some big coin. Um, and prior to that, I think that these companies had shipped these things like toys. Therefore, Urgo, we're gonna sell you a million Optimus Primes this Christmas. If you don't sell them, send them back, it's cool. Uh, we're gonna send you a million copies of this toy, if you don't sell them, send them back, it's cool. I would imagine that the industry was full of um there weren't probably many gaming industry executives really at the time because it was still such a fledging business, so they probably had to go out and recruit, or were able to proliferate talent from maybe the toy buying field, which is why I and Nintendo's history probably wrapped this up to be sold as a toy, which is totally fine. Normally, when you ship to a distributor, that's your problem, dude. You wanted it, you're taking it, you're selling it. But the sale or return element of this means that over time human beings find a loophole and they exploit it. So, Johnny from Nintendo, you you're like, you it's your job, pal, to get these gone. Okay, no problems. I'm just struggling to get them gone. Can we do a sale or return? Yeah, do what you like, yeah. As long as we've got the headlines, pal. Yeah, it it what I would love to do, and we'll never be able to do this RGT is take the shipped numbers because those shipped numbers will be the ones that historically pre-this era would have been how we judge the game's performance based on the numbers released, not sold through stores. Exactly. So it'd be interesting to see how some of the big games of the era actually shape up in a reality of what units were sold, which is the true it doesn't matter if me or you give a game a 10, it doesn't matter if a magazine gives it a 10, it doesn't matter, it matters what how many sold. That's what matters in terms of the game.
SPEAKER_05Well, it's a couple of things here that get me. First of all, I think you sometimes come across you know, 2003, you can class it as retro nowadays. You sometimes come across games that you think this game is really popular at the time, it was top of the sales figures. How come it's hard to find now? And you think, well, it's probably hard to find because the sales figures that you got were the were the shipped figures, not the figures that actually got returned. That's probably why it's harder to find, and also I think I can understand now why Nintendo involved in this that had N64, which relatively small library hadn't done brilliant. GameCube was not was only now about to come out, and that was struggling. That was almost like Nintendo was saying, Oh, you need to buy the GameCube because look at our sales figures, these games, this is where the games are at, and they're almost hyping up their own that would have been the sales technique that the Nintendo reps would have gone in with as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they'd have used historic sales data that they had made themselves to convince these people that they needed to pre-order several million copies of this game to make sure that they were able to capitalise on the profit and the excitement and the hype. Nintendo would have also come in and pushed a bit of paper under the nose saying, Yeah, worldwide we're spending about two million on advertising for this game. Oh, bloody hell. Alright, so if you want to benefit from that two million pound advertisement dump that we're doing and see your name at the bottom of places where you can buy this thing, you need to get like three million in so we know that you can deal with the with the volume of people that are going to want this game. Yeah, oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. Let me sign. Yeah, where's the keys of the Benador? Here, awesome, see in a bit.
SPEAKER_05I don't yeah. I know I think you bang on. I mean, this obviously is uh an issue in an investigation of the era, which is why I've put it in.
SPEAKER_00Um nowadays, I mean, do we look at big fines by the way, even by the measure of the time? I know this is the third biggest fine, but my goodness gracious me, Nintendo of that era would have had to be for that bad boy. No, absolutely not.
SPEAKER_05At that time, Nintendo, you know, it wasn't uh it was a uh almost struggling brand at the time, so 91 million is uh it's it's a big kick in the teeth, and um obviously their sales practices had warranted this kicking kicking UK firm John Menzies in the gut with a four point five million pound fine, I think, seems a bit extreme.
SPEAKER_00Like they're never Yeah smaller than they ever made.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've only remember him for being like a smaller distributor like WH Smith's, it was a funny little place. Oh yeah. So that's a huge finder for the era. Um, but it just also makes me like I said before, how much the charts were so important at the time.
SPEAKER_00Nowadays, do we I mean, do you look at sales charts nowadays for sporadically during the year I do, but it doesn't ever represent maybe obviously it represents some of the tenth pole tartars I look at for the show for the main show. Of course it does, course it does. But does it represent the games that I actually buy myself? No, not really. Like, will U-Bo ever be in the top ten? No.
SPEAKER_05And I think also modern games we with reviewers, with early codes, with the internet, we tend to know a game's going to be good before we bought it. You know, it's very rare that you buy one and are disappointed, like we said about Angel of Darkness. So obviously, those charts are not a not a thing now, but obviously back in the day, they would go to extreme lengths to make sure they're in that top 10. Because obviously, I think from a from a gamer's point of view, if you were looking for a new console, you'd look and see what had the games in the top ten charts. So it you know, it was swings and roundabouts, but yeah, very interesting. Um interesting story, like I say, from from the era.
SPEAKER_00One thing I would say is I don't know because it was where we we were younger, and maybe not necessarily in all the magazines, but that what looks like a throwaway article, a smallish article within that magazine, really, because it's embedded within other stuff as well. That would be massive, that would be the big news that all the podcasters would be talking about now. Yeah, it would be everyone would be sort of taking that story and stomping a mud hole in it, taking it from a quick 10, 5, I don't know, 30-second read into a 400-hour content stream. And I tell you what, it's lucky that this happened then because they would not survive the kicking they'd get now from all the people. Oh, that's unacceptable.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god, they would be it'd be trending and everything, wouldn't it? Yeah, you know, a boy can't be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00And there'd be some rights it would be stepping on, yeah. Absolutely embarrassing, really. But luckily they did they messed up in the era where people didn't even care.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um final story. Um this surprised me, this one. I thought you'd like this.
SPEAKER_00Are you on commission or what?
SPEAKER_05No, I put this.
SPEAKER_00You know it's not available to buy anymore, don't you?
SPEAKER_05The title for this says it all to me because I didn't think it was, but there we go. But um iye, Sony's iToy becomes a huge success. Sony's new peripheral has exceeded expectations and become a huge success throughout the UK. Thanks to some extensive market and by Sony that has seen the iToy appearing on the likes of Big Brother 4 as well as in numerous retail stores. Um, iToy play has firmly ingrained itself in the public's consciousness, even managing to take the number one spot away from EDOS's Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness. How many people bought that, you see? Um for iToy, for iToy to top the charts against stiff competition from the likes of Miss Croft and The Matrix is great, says David Wilson, head of PR for SCE UK. I had faith from the start that this was the was a brilliant and original piece of kit, um, but it's a really it's really good to see that consumers seem to agree. I think iToy offers some amazing possibilities for the future. A second iToy product is currently in development as an expected to be released in November, with David Wilson confident that the gadget will become a major part of PlayStation's gaming in the future. The iToy technology is still in its infancy, and although budding skaters will no longer be able to use peripheral in Tony Hawke's underground, we're sure it won't be long before um it'll be starring in games in is second nature. Um, this made me laugh because going from it mentioned obviously Angel of Darkness, you can see how many people bought that game.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So actually the or via the second piece of uh media, mate, how many people did buy that game?
SPEAKER_05Exactly, and also this saying that this is outsold these games on here. You're thinking, did it though? Because the article we've just done. This is why I thought this was interesting. Because I I did have an iToy, me and my mate back in the in the day. Yeah, but I didn't know many people that did who had a PS2. Uh half of them hadn't even heard of the iToy.
SPEAKER_00So I'm thinking, how's it outsold? Quote unquote, I still don't think people who bought the iT toy, yourself included, thought this was the amazing possibility for the future when you were cleaning your screen. Uh I window washing. Exactly, mate. I find this article to be extreme. I find that I find it was written by Sony. Well, the first art the first part of the article exceeded all expectations. The second part of the art, second paragraph, thanks to some extensive marketing by Sony, i.e., forcing John Menzies to take six million box versions of this, uh and then get the fine for it, and then get the fine for it. I don't know. We say it lines up behind Angel and Darkness, that even if we take that at face value without the other information that we already know now, it's still no high claim, is it, to be second runner to that, uh, especially when you think about some of the fur all that came up around that. So we're second to the most disappointing game released in the last 50 years.
SPEAKER_05Because obviously, uh the Angel of Darkness publishers had actually lied about how many copies have actually been sold. They probably didn't include the ones that were returned.
SPEAKER_00If you think about it, it's a game you don't see that often, Angel of Darkness. And I would say the eye toy is a peripheral that is harder to see nowadays when you're going out on a little bit of a second-hand nif-nap and trivia pickup routine. Uh I I mean, I've got an eye toy and iToyPlay boxed and wrapped with the white little palette wrapping, still to this day, in a box somewhere. Now, if I've managed to get hold without even trying of an unsealed, hard-wrapped copy of iToy Play. Put it to you, pal. This was not that popular.
SPEAKER_05No, I I I had boxed ones, I got rid of all mine recently. I I didn't have no need for them, I'm never gonna use them.
SPEAKER_00Um was it was it wrapped with a with a palette wrapping as well, or no?
SPEAKER_05No, no, it wasn't, not with not with a pallet wrap, but um, and I got rid of the games as well because I mean that's just something that is taking up room in the collection I didn't really need. I mean, they were talking big at the time about this. I mean, we all know Sony, they do strange and wacky things. They always have whenever they're launching new peripherals, they're always trying different stuff. Um, thing that got me here as well is um you'll no longer be able to use the peripheral in Tony Hawke's underground. I didn't even know you could, but now I see.
SPEAKER_00No, I don't think you can. I think what they were saying is that it was rumoured it was going to be something they were going to implement for the PS2 version, but then didn't.
SPEAKER_05Oh, okay. So I'm that's my take on the worded. I can remember seeing certain games did have a little banner on, didn't they?
SPEAKER_00Correct, a little bit like the online play banner that you saw on some of the latter PS2 games. Yeah, it did have an iToy banner. I mean, this this kind of really cements to me that we were surprised that Sony did the dirty on the PSVR 1 and then the PSVR 2, they did the dirty on the PS3 camera, I think it was its official name. Yeah, the Vita. And they've had the hallmarks in this in this from the start. Um, if it doesn't reach a certain amount of consumer adoption within a certain period of time, they must have a metric behind the scenes that says if this doesn't reach this point by then, we drop it like a hot stone. Kill it, kill it.
SPEAKER_05And I think as well, this is this is when you read this article. This article is basically saying we haven't sold enough of these. Let's make it sound that's something that everybody needs for their PS2. Let's make it sound like if you've got a PS2, you need the eye toy because going forward, everything's gonna be using the iToy. But as we know, that obviously wasn't the case. But it almost this is almost like one of those journalistic adverts um snuck in a corner of the magazine.
Channel Stuffing And Sales “Success”
SPEAKER_00I think they're called in the trade, they're called advertorials. That's it, that's the one. It's an editorial in the guise of an advert, basically. An advert in the guise of an editorial, take it how you like. You see them in maybe the official mags. Um, maybe these days, these hard push elements, not there's an official mag anymore, but back in the days of the official PlayStation magazine, this is a sort of high-level indoctrination you would see in there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, and if you ask anyone nowadays and said, you know, did you have an iToy, yes or no? Do you think the iToy was a huge success? Everyone had gone, no, it was just a flash in a pan, a bit gimmicky for a couple of months and it disappeared.
SPEAKER_00It was, I'll be honest though, I got one. I had a PS2, I bought an iToy it in that moment.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was gimmicky. We played it for a few days and then it was put in a box and never used again. But it just makes me laugh how the how the the the title of this is Sony's eye toy becomes a huge success. And I'm like, I don't know if you'd class an eye toy as a huge success. I think it's something that most people have forgot about now. I think the best thing about the iToy was it did have the look of a little PS2, you know, had the little grooves in the side, and yeah, it had that vented look, it did really feel part of the PS2 ecosystem, didn't it?
SPEAKER_00That design ethos mapped into the eye toy, and actually, even though it was something that sat miles away from your PS2 on top of your telly on that stupid little foot.
SPEAKER_05Um and you could get the colours as well to match your PS4.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because my my biggest that sealed one upstairs, I think, is a black one, but I've actually got a silver eye toy. Um with the little lens as well, you've got the extra lens.
SPEAKER_05Focus it, didn't you manually focus it as well?
SPEAKER_00Well, one was like short range and one was like a wider range to cover the room, and I think the PS3 camera had a similar lens where you can kind of like scope it in and out depending on the sort of room coverage that you wanted.
SPEAKER_05That's it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the iToy. If you thought you were gonna use the iToy tech in, I mean that's why it probably got pulled from Tony Hawke's underground because it was you know it might work for cleaning soap suds off the screen, but it's not gonna try on a 360 kick flip where you'd be gonna manual, yeah, but your head for the TV, and that's a CRT at the time, so there's no coming back from that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, your mum comes home and there's just a pair of legs hanging out of a 300 pound weight CRT with an eye toy sort of just dangling, dangling over his crotch, and she thinks it's some sort of bizarre masturbation accident.
SPEAKER_01Only the truth, if only the if only you knew the truth. I was just trying a manual.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was Tony Hawke's mum.
SPEAKER_01Shame that now my family have to live with got me foot caught in the rug, bloody video games.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, um, I hope you enjoyed those stories. Um, I thought that were quite interesting because in a way they're all sort of linked together in some sort of uh 2003 window.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
SPEAKER_05Um and that's just how you know one minute we're talking about how Angel of Darkness is being you know, being that bad, that cause being stripped of it, and then in the next article you're seeing that it's actually apparently one hell of a seller. But in the other article, we're seeing that all games weren't actually selling what you thought they were. So yeah, it's uh some shady times in 2003, but interesting never nevertheless, and that that little window looking back and and seeing what was actually going on in the games industry at the time. But I think it leaves me to say now it's now time for what we affectionately call Stingray's boot, what's nestled between some counterfeit nappies and a dodgy copy of Battle for Endor is some new releases for October 2003. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_00How are you seeing young spring stop rattle roll? Have we got the budget for Flashy B to have him driving up the drive, or is he not?
SPEAKER_05I think we've got enough coffers in there now. I think we've got£9.46 in petty cash, so I can get that on to editor field to chuck in some uh some car noises, I think.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely brilliant. Well, I'll tell you how I'm seeing him today. He's manifested himself as the absolutely inverse of my mate, he was disappointed. You know, my mate at the top of the show where I said he'd I'd watched his enthusiasm get walked into oblivion over Angel of Darkness. Well, yes, Sting's showing himself to me today as the man who's had the absolute inverse experience. He came in wanting to hate Angel of Darkness, he's now telling me it's the best game ever made. He's literally slathered head to toe in Lara Croft's pixelated face, and he's dressed up his son Wayne as the butler from the original PSP game, but he's sprayed his own son metallic blue, so he looks like he's just come out of the fridge.
SPEAKER_05I mean his attention to detail is something else, and it's extreme.
SPEAKER_00The only thing that makes me slightly more dubious about the whole setup is tucked in Ray's top Lara Croft pocket is a copy, a dodgy copy of Terminator 3 Battle for the Machines, I believe it's called, or whatever it's called. Uh and and that's the game I'll be Rise of the Machines. That's the video I'll be taking home. But the game I'm taking home from the Raymeister, um before we get to how you're seeing The Fine Man, and you see he's teasing me with Max Payne too, but the game I'm actually gonna go all in on is Lord of the Ret Lord of the Ring. Mumsy, bring me my teeth, darling. It's Lord of the Rings Return of the King, the movie tie-in. That uh I think I talked about the second one, Two Towers, a few episodes ago, but this one just takes all that and more. With that said and done, RGT, how are you seeing the fine sting last name Ray?
SPEAKER_05Well he's come out to me. The only way is eye toy t-shirt, and he's actually got a pair of shades made out of two uh eye toys.
SPEAKER_01Jeez.
SPEAKER_05So he's looking through and adjusting them, not a pair of like a night scope.
SPEAKER_00He's currently now seeing like a PS2 C's.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_00For the first four years of the PS2's life, it was blind, then all of a sudden it could see the debauchery which you were playing its games in, and it was just disgusted.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, he's like an eye toy version of Lormer Man. He's now seeing it all through the the PlayStation's eyes. Um and Wayne uh he's actually dressed Wayne up as a PS2 Slim.
SPEAKER_01Bloody hell.
SPEAKER_05Silver Silver. So we're all thinking, what's this? I've never heard of a PS2 Slim, is it? It's on the way. This Wayne is the demonstration of how it works. It's a pop lid opens up from his back like that, so you can put the big discs in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What part of is that is Is that actually stitched to his spinal column then when you open it up in Oh, he's gone full in, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he's got to take one for the team, I'm afraid, but anywho, um what's his brain think when it sends signals down to the disk drive that's embedded in his spinal column and then the data slew that comes in like like waves like to see him blinking and X and ones just flying past his eyelids.
SPEAKER_01And coming out of his ass somewhere is this wire that's just splamming data, he plugs it in your head and you're like, oh god, wait, what the hell?
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, sting rays all in.
SPEAKER_01Lay on the floor, just whap. Um we haven't put a disc in him yet, mate. Oh god.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's just a start screen. You're just seeing the towers to see what you got saved on him. Um my game, I'm going to choose. I am gonna go with, I think, um Jack 2.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, October 2003, 14th, actually, this was released. Um, bit of a favourite of the RGT household. And I know a lot of people didn't like the dark way that went on Jack 2, but I really thought they stepped the game up in this game and the the city side of it and how you could traverse the city and stuff. I think they, you know, and even to this day, I still think it's a very good-looking game.
SPEAKER_00Oh, mate, it as soon as you load up Jack 2, like Jack 1, sadly framed up as probably one of the greatest 3D platformers of all time. The diversity of the worlds, the diversity of the gameplay mechanics that you can use. Very colourful and yeah, colourful, the collect them ups, the enemies are engaging, the platform and elements are engaging. All of a sudden. Now I know we need to always keep people's expectations in check, but you you rock up for the sequel, and all of a sudden you're like this dark-edgy dude riding around on a scooter in a city. Um, it's not hard to imagine why people were a little bit sort of jaded by that. Um, and possibly by the you've gone from a cartoon to uh a very dark-edged character.
SPEAKER_05Uh I I agree with that, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's super impressive, but my god, it's one hell of a it's one hell of a reinvention.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, isn't it? Yeah, it is, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, and and and was was Jack 2 the seeds of the Uncharted that uh the naughty dog and the uncharted that you love.
SPEAKER_05I think so, yeah. Um I've that's when I first noticed that Naughty Dog were very good at building worlds. Um when they had an idea for a world, whether it be a 3D platformer, whether it be Last of Us, whether it be Uncharted, they were and a lot of studios are good at it, but I think there's very few studios that master it as actually building a world that they want you to see how they want it to be, and and they do that. I mean Jack 2, the detail in that city is fantastic, you know, yeah for a for a game of yeah, for the for a game of the era, and they carried that on, you know, when you played as Nathan Drake. You knew what Nathan Drake was about, you knew where he was, you knew the.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I don't think they've ever gone as bold or as big in terms of scope and size. Now they went bold and big in terms of animation quality and um draw drawing detail in and around the character in that moment, but they never went as big and bold as an open and free roaming as they did with two and three, like they've never revisited that style. You could argue maybe there's elements of like Uncharted 4 in the Jeep, there's maybe sniffs of this in Lost Legacy with the similar sort of open world, pick which one you want to go in first, sort of scenario, but that's not the whole game, that's a section of a game that they've produced since. Jack 2 and 3's scope was way beyond anything they've done before or since I would argue. Crash 3, maybe with the warped worlds kind of maybe a tentative step, but nothing like that ever again. I I Jack trilogy stands up really well.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely. Um bit of an honourable mention as well. Um, Prince of Berger, the Sands of Time came out on. 28th October 2003 as well. Um, now I've never played this, but I know quite a lot of people do say this is a really good game.
SPEAKER_00I've never this is the first one, right? The first of the reboots. Yes.
SPEAKER_05I think did they do three in the end? They did, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I recently played the sequel and I don't think it's held up as well. It looked very janky all early. Whereas this kind of sits that sort of console fine line of of of being kind of what it is.
SPEAKER_05Um I think it's got the HD collection on Pierre.
SPEAKER_00I'm I've I've got that, but whenever I pick it up I want to go, I probably want to try. Oh no, last thing I played it on was actually the HD trilogy. And I think that a lot of things have been done to those games on that HD trilogy to make them 3D capable.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_00Now I I need to play the OG version of the second Principia to see, but when I played it on PS3, in the settings, which I normally go in to get things all set and ready to play on a modern TV, the m the only setting you could mess with was 3D, and it did make me think, I think, is that why these have got all these hard edges on them?
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you in a game that was never made for 3D, you suddenly get that push, and your figure can get wrapped and separated from the backgrounds. I don't know exactly. Some touch-ups have took place, but I wouldn't I'm I kind of came away from that thing and a little bit a little bit sore, a little bit like, mm, is this the HD trilogy or are you is this a 3D trilogy?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's almost hearted up a bit for a certain For a certain screen and play type.
SPEAKER_00It was almost like a novelty item almost. And yeah that sort of era 3D, even in movies that came out in that era, it did reek from that. Quite often I'll be watching a film and I'll turn to Rachel and be like, I bet this came out in the 3D era. And guarantee you, it did. There's lots of like, ooh, into the screen business, and like these pans and distant shots, so yeah, who knows?
SPEAKER_05Um speaking of movies, um, my movie pick, I think I'm gonna do this week out of the Ray's boot. Um, I'm gonna go with Identity. I love that film. Um and scared me when I researched this that this was out in 2003. Um if you haven't seen Identity, watch it. That's an absolutely brilliant movie. Um John Kusack, Rayleigh Otter. Um great take, but almost that um sort of six-cent twist in it as well. Uh really, really, really great film. So uh yeah, definitely, definitely have a watch as well.
iToy Hype Versus Reality
SPEAKER_00Before we let Ray shut the boot, I just uh wanna say that the Mad Max Payne 2 box art in its simplicity is absolutely frickin' gorgeous.
SPEAKER_05There is something about that, isn't there? That's almost film noir that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00I remember the bus posters of that bad boy, and even to this day, that silhouette is uh gorgeous.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I remember that, and also I remember because obviously in the game they used actually one of the developers, weren't it? They used his sort of face as the um but the the poster art was different. Um and I do remember, and I remember a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00But he's in Alan Wake 2, by the way, the guy who plays Max Payne.
SPEAKER_05Oh really?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05I never knew that. Um and I remember I think we were saying the other week on Flashback about um I think it was about Driver 3, how when I first saw it, I thought it was a poster for a movie, not a thousand years. And this was the same. I remember seeing this poster, and I think they had a standee in it in and the white with the black silhouette, and I remember thinking, God, what is this all about? You know, this and then you see Max Payne do you think oh okay, but at first you think it's a it's a lot of big movie billboard.
SPEAKER_00Well the Max Payne 1 artwork I always thought was incredible, but this kind of lifted my expectations up. It kinda it just presented it in a different way, and and and to me as well, that that aesthetic kind of carries into the game a little bit. It just just that whole product is very classic.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Um and I think this is probably the era where Rockstar were really nailing their their you know marketing and bits and pieces and yeah.
SPEAKER_00This was the this was the the top watermark that they then carry into some of their other products. Really impressive.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, you you definitely heard about their games before you played them because they their marketing was superb and like you say, the posters and artworks and got your hyped before you you picked up their their their titles. But yeah, so that was interesting. Um little sneak window into September 2003, just to say uh great year, right?
SPEAKER_00Great.
SPEAKER_05Hope you enjoyed it. Yeah, so it's we could have we could have gone on for four or five hours talking about the games that are out and the systems and the news that was there, but obviously there's plenty more scope for other mumps from 2003 um as this show goes on. Um thanks for everyone for listening. Thanks for downloading. Um thanks to George for joining me again.
SPEAKER_00Thank you to you.
SPEAKER_05He's putting up with me, so um he keeps coming back, so I must be doing something right.
SPEAKER_00Um contractually obliged, but yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh I will just say as well, um our other show on a Fish Controller podcast. Don't forget to have a listener there. We've just done 300 episodes now of that, so there's plenty of bat catalogue to listen to. Go and have a download, get them all downloaded, have a listen through the old bat catalogue, see what you think, the old laws, everything, all a bit of fun. And we've also launched our website. Um you might not find it on Google at the moment because it is waiting to be enlisted on there. But if you actually type in unofficial controllerpodcast.com in one complete word, that'll take you straight to the website. Well, yeah, yeah, obviously www.unofficialcontrollerpodcast.com. Um and if you have a look on there, there is a mobile and it is also a desktop version, so depending on what you're on. The d obviously the mobile version is slightly stripped down, but still functions and looks very good. Um thanks to Captain Scarlet for all is done on there, and we will our next project on that site is to be adding a flashy B section on there. So there'll be a flashback page on there as well. So that's our current project on there. But yeah, go check it out. Um, yeah, like I say, thanks everyone, thanks for downloading, thanks to George. Um, hope you enjoyed the show. September 2003. Um, look forward to uh you know doing a show for you next week, which don't forget will be on a Tuesday, not on like today, a Sunday. Um, but yeah, just leaves me to say flashback the games you loved, the stories you forgot. See ya later, George.
SPEAKER_00See you all GT, thank you for listening.