From Wall Street to Psychedelics: How Zappy Zapolin Is Rewiring Addiction, Depression & Medicine

From Wall Street to Psychedelics: How Zappy Zapolin Is Rewiring Addiction, Depression & Medicine

In this powerful conversation, filmmaker and psychedelic advocate Zappy Zapolin shares his journey from Wall Street success to becoming a leading voice in the psychedelic healing movement.
He breaks down how ketamine, psilocybin, and ibogaine are being used to treat treatment-resistant depression, PTSD, trauma, and addiction at the root level—not just the symptoms.
Zappy also shares deeply personal stories from working with figures like Lamar Odom, exploring how psychedelic-assisted therapy helped interrupt addiction cycles and reconnect individuals with trauma, identity, and purpose.
The episode also explores:
The neuroscience of trauma and addiction
Why psychedelics act as “pattern interrupts” in the brain
The role of indigenous wisdom and plant medicine
The future of mental health care in the U.S.
His “Mind Army” movement advocating for access and legalization
This is a provocative, visionary conversation about the future of healing, consciousness, and medicine.

🔑 Key Themes
Trauma as the root of addiction
Psychedelics as neurobiological “reset tools”
Ketamine-assisted therapy for depression & suicidality
Ibogaine for deep addiction interruption
Integration as essential to healing
Indigenous stewardship of plant medicine
The “Mind Army” movement and legalization advocacy
Water, nature, and independence from broken systems

💥 Powerful Moments
“Every addiction is trauma-based at the bottom line.”
“Ketamine is a pattern interrupt for the brain.”
“Ibogaine gives you a life review—you don’t come back the same.”
“We are fighting for the right to go inside our own minds.”
“If you can get empathy up, you can solve anything in society.”

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

But I s Andres and I we still keep saying keep saying when are we going to New Mexico? We've gotta put that on the schedule. We have our invite and uh we gotta take uh you up on it. We're like Braden up on it, so we're coming, we're on the way.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Um and you know, I have so many friends recently that they're just coming through like this, like from all over the United States. And um, not necessarily just for ceremony or retreat, but there's a lot of good things happening here. It's a state that is full of opportunity if you look at it that way, because we are top three most poor states every single year, very underserved population, and that is also informed by the intergenerational trauma in the Hispanic community and also the native population. We have huge acreage of land that it belongs to the pueblos here, to Native Americans, and I'm so grateful for the land because it can't be developed, and I'm like, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

And so it really keeps the nature and the beautiful energy that the natives have and bring in the reverence for nature is very palpable here, and so yeah, we'd love to have I'm convinced my dream scenario, and I can say this on the podcast, but my dream scenario is to have the Native Americans be the people who hold space for these psychedelic events on their land with their reverence and be the people that hold space. Like if you can have Las Vegas that can get people all messed up, you have to have a place to send them where they can get right. And who better than natives to do that? Hold space like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

That's beautiful, that's beautiful, and it's it's part of them and what they do, and and really helping them through the trauma, helping them water on their land. Talking about them have electricity. I cannot believe that it is 2024, Zappy, and here we are. There's many parts of the Pueblos, the reservations that don't have running water, they don't have electricity. Like when we try to have a Zoom call, they have to like drive 30 minutes to someplace so they can have Wi-Fi, and so there's definite systemic things that are at play that need to also be addressed. But I do see that the as the consciousness is evolving for all of us, that is also shifting because there's a lot more. Hey, wait a minute, what's happening here? I'm not so under the influence of so many different, you know, uh holy substance use disorder is top in the nation.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

And as we know, it's uh trauma begets addiction and PTSD results in all of these things. And so um, and then it gets passed down to the next generations, and so um here we truly have an opportunity, and I really want New Mexico to be the flagship for mental health and healing.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

That would be beautiful. Should be.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, and and it goes along with what you're saying right now.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

But uh yes, that it should be, and that could be the place we send everybody for their reboot, because like I said, if you can have a place where people can get addicted to gambling, alcohol, drugs. I mean, you have to have like if there is a way out, you have to give it to them. So send them to New Mexico and let them sit with the natives. They hold the space, they have some peyotes, some mushrooms, something like that, and send them back, maybe ibugaine if necessary, even for the natives. I'd like to see that be like uh, you know, all native people get ibogaine therapy for free immediately in order to reverse the trauma-based drinking and stuff like that that's in there.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, and it's deep. They start on this path at a very young age, yeah, preteen, usually. And it's very sad, you know. I've had many, many, many patients in the hospital in their 20s that I've had to put on hospice because of drinking. And I've spoken with families or patients who've survived, and they say when I go to the graveyard, 12 of my cousins are right there, and I don't want to be that. And um, it's interesting, and you, you know, talk to some and they say um these rituals they start at a young age, like 11, 12, and they don't even know what they're drinking, they're just you know, gatherings a ritualistic thing, but they have no idea if this is alcohol that was made, is it moonshine? How was it made? We don't know, right? And and it it becomes a game of you know, anyways, it's yeah, wow, deep and it's very sad.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Yeah, so sad. Yeah, very fixable with psychedelics, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

And guidance. I recently finished um an intensive training with Center for Mind Body Medicine. I don't know if you know about them. It was founded by Dr. James Gordon, who's a psychiatrist from Harvard about like 20 years ago, and he continues to be the founder and CEO of the organization. And they go in places where there is trauma, live trauma, such as Ukraine, such as Iran, such as um Israel, Gaza, when the earthquake happened in Turkey, they go in and they they help individuals, including children, get through the psychological trauma that they're sustaining from the physical trauma and the immediate danger that they're in. I mean, they're rubbles and they're doing this like drawings and imagery and guided imagery and meditation and shaking and dancing. I mean, transforming the trauma that's happening. It's fantastic work. And bringing that, and that's what I'm doing right now, coupling that with psychedelics.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, yeah, because those things without psychedelics, only a small percentage of people are going to be able to reorient their mind away from the big thing, like a bomb might land on you any second. All right, beautiful. You tell me where to start. I'm just here to talk and answer questions and uh I want to know about you, Zappy.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

I know some of the work that you do now, which is fantastic. Like the water project is just mind-blowing to me. I'm like, yes, and um, I'd love to hear about that. I love to hear about the psychedelic work you're doing with athletes and celebrities, you know, people of influence, and how that is really changing the landscape. Um and most importantly, I like to know about you and your journey in a capacity that you want to share. How did you get to this point and then getting into what you're doing right now?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

So I was lucky enough when I was younger to have this incredible psychedelic experience where I took a large dose of psychedelics. I was with a friend, and at the peak of the experience, I looked at my hand and I saw that it was trillions of atoms, and they were just vibrating at this certain frequency, all of them. And then I looked over at my friend, and he was the same exact atoms, but a slightly different frequency than me. I looked at the table, it was vibrating faster. I was like, oh my god, like my five senses are muting everything down. Really, everything is energy like this. And when I came out of that trip, I never forgot that. And I just went through my life doing my thing, and I did everything that society told me to do to be fulfilled. And this is where in 2011 I sort of had my own um spiritual midlife crisis where I did everything they told me to do. Go to school, get a job, make money, have a family, be a philanthropist. You're gonna be totally fulfilled. And I was sitting there, I was like, okay, I'm having some nice experiences, but I'm not totally fulfilled, and I don't even know what I'm doing here, to be honest with myself. And so I was like, what am I gonna do? Why would this even be worth continuing? And I thought, well, what if I was to go back inside my mind like I did when I was younger, but do it with a lot more intention? And I'd heard about people doing ayahuasca down in the jungle with shamans, and I thought, oh, wow, like that, a guided journey like that to intentionally look at myself to get some answers and some healing, like that sounds almost exactly what I need. And so uh after about a year of thinking about that, I finally convinced myself that I was ready and it was time and I really wanted to go sit with a shaman. And you know, I had thought back to these experiences I'd had. I had always had I worked on Wall Street and had a career being a vice president at Bear Stern Investment Bank, and I'd done the internet when it came along. I was big into domain names, and I'd bought and sold beer.com, diamond.com, and credit cards.com and made millions of dollars and all these experiences. You know, part of that whole process, I always had film crews and people shooting commercials and stuff with me. So I thought, you know, if I'm gonna go down to jungle, I really want to bring a film crew with me because like if it works, I have to share it. And if it's nothing there, I'd still I'd want to share, you know, my experience. So I had that, and uh, I got lucky enough that one of the people I was making film with knew Michelle Rodriguez, the actress from Fast and Furious. And we went over to her house and invited her to come to Peru. And she was like locked in and she was like, Yeah, you know what? I've wanted to do this also for the last year or two, and it just hasn't been the right time. But like, if you guys are doing this in a couple weeks, she's like, I'm in. And she went back in her, I'll never forget, but she went back in her bedroom and she came back out with her passport and she handed me her passport and she's like, All right, like, let's do it. And I was like, Oh my god, this is happening. Like, there's no way I can get out of this right now. Um, even though I was, of course, still slightly nervous about going to the jungle and drinking ayahuasca. Um, but it was on from there, and um, we went down there, we had this transformative experience with ayahuasca, which is in a root and a vine that they make this tea out of. And you drink it, you know, ideally with a shaman in the jungle. And that experience changed my life. I, you know, met God, I hung out with God. It turned out, it turns out she's a woman. And when I came out of this thing, you know, several hours later, yeah, uh so strange because we were all different sized people and we drank different amounts of ayahuasca. But several hours later we all came out at the exact same moment. It was like the ayahuasca frequency just like left the room, and we were all looking around, going, Did you just come out? Oh my god, how because that and then I just started laughing, Lita, because I was like, my God, I just got the whole cosmic joke, human joke, which is you got God with the beard and Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, all these men. And I was actually with God, and it's a woman. So fundamentally, every religion pretty much is flawed from the start that you know it's at least 50% a woman, let's say. But I was with, you know, the creative energy of God, Mother Nature, Chamama, they call it. And I had this freeing experience where, you know, basically as I was there with God, uh, God said to me, She said, Um, you know, do you know how you're breathing right now? And I was like, No. Like, you know, do you know how you're, you know, growing your hair, digesting your food, like you're doing it. Do you know how? And I was like, no. And then God was basically like, if you don't know how you're breathing, what makes you think I need your help? And I was like, Oh, wow, you're right. Like, I mean, I don't even know how I'm breathing. Why am I getting all upset? Because, oh, these people over here, they're not listening to me. They're not they're bad. I was like, I don't even know how I'm breathing. Like, what am I gonna do? And God just said, Enjoy this miracle that you're in. You know, it was the message. And I, and as I came out of that, I was like, wow, you know, that changes everything. I don't have to like have a burden of try to change the world. I just, you know, ayahuasca said, you know, in this time, uh, you know, go back and share this. And in this time, this is the time where, you know, ayahuasca and the this plant medicine has to come out of the jungle to America, to Europe. It can't be everybody has to come down here and sit with a shaman. No, this is gonna be in Los Angeles, New York City, and um go share. So I was like, I came back and I was like, oh my God, you gotta go sit with a shaman. I'm telling everybody. And this the sad part was that all the people in my life that really, really needed it at that time, they were the ones saying to me, Oh, you know what, Zappy, I can't do it. Like, you know, I tell my family I'm going to the jungle to sit with a shaman right now, they will probably baker act me, you know, they'll put me in a mental institution. Uh, I wish I could, but I can't. And I was like, oh man, you know, this is so frustrating. Uh, I have to find this Western approach. And before I found the Western approach, I actually wound up uh, you know, having as a psychonaut, you know, a self-proclaimed psychonaut, where I've done all these psychedelics known to man and had all these incredible experiences and realized that they're each different frequencies and they have, you know, attributes, be they male and female, and you know, for health and addiction and wellness and all these things. And I I but the one that I had never done was uh a plant medicine called iboga, which they is an African root, which is known to be able to break a heroin addiction, opiate, math, alcohol, gambling in one 12-hour session. And I was just like, how can that be? Like I've been in all these other psychedelic situations, none of those were gonna clear up something like that. And so I convinced myself to go do iboga in the right set and setting with medical supervision and so forth, and you know, had the incredibly transformative experience, right? I understood how it is that it can break your uh addiction overnight. It's a real look at yourself. And, you know, they say that the ayahuasca is the mother, and the son Pedro Cactus is the father, and the grandfather is the iboga, and it really is. It's sort of like if you want tough love from your grandfather to show you why you're disrupted and how you need to change, this is the path. And it is a you know, 12-hour roller coaster. Um, you know, but for me, I thought about it. I was like, when I came out, you know, you feel mentally so good. Physically, they just had a study come out saying that you're physiologically 1.3 years younger after you do an eye bogaine uh treatment. And so I was like, oh my God, like I feel so good, I feel mentally clear. And I, you know, started to bring people down there who had addictions and things like that. And uh when I went back to, you know, to doing what I was doing, I was showing my movie, The Reality of Truth, the one with Michelle Rodriguez, that we are showing it around the country. And that movie now, thankfully, because of how good Michelle is, the reality of truth has been seen over 25 million times. It's on Amazon Prime, it's on YouTube, Gaia, all these places. And it's said to have caused over a million people to have a psychedelic experience because they just because they watch the movie. And I really believe it because, like I said, Michelle's so good that people, the movie ends, and people are always like, I want to do platicine. I think I'm ready right now. All the questions and and fears have been eliminated by by watching that movie. And so I was showing it, and this is the evolution of, you know, leave it to the universe. I didn't really know what to do necessarily, but I just was showing the movie, and somebody came out up to me after a screening, and they said, Hey, I'm friends with Lamar Odom, the basketball player, Kardashian, and he's not in a great place right now. I just saw the movie and I think, like, would you talk to him about plant medicine and psychedelics and stuff? So I was like, and uh, I met with Lamar and I convinced him and his people that he should come with me initially, uh let me film it, but to do a ketamine treatment. And for people that don't know, ketamine is a FDA-approved schedule three anesthetic that has been shown to be 70% effective treating even treatment-resistant depression. And so uh you and I talked about the way that they found out that uh uh the ketamine worked was they were doing amputations out in the battlefield in Vietnam, and they were using all kinds of anesthetics, ketamine, ether, morphine, these things, and they were doing the amputations. They looked back after Vietnam and they realized that all the people that had the ketamine for anesthetic had not committed suicide at anywhere near the rates that the other people have. So they were like, wow, what's going on here? They brought it to Yale, they did a huge study, a thousand-person study, and came up with low dose ketamine is effective for um treatment-resistant depression. So I was like, oh my God, wow, this is like could be, you know, when I found it, I was like, wow, this could be amazing. Because what happened was all when I came back to the States and I was telling everybody about plant medicine, somebody told me about this ketamine. And I was like, wow, that sounds absolutely incredible. Never tried it. The Yale study looks rock solid. So I convinced the doctor down here in Florida to give me the treatment, the Yale protocol of six treatments over two weeks. Because the idea is that you have this ketamine experience where you go into this present moment awareness and all that chatter in your mind just slows down and goes away. But after that experience, that 35-minute experience is over, in the hours after, it's actually growing new neural pathways in your brain when it metabolizes. So this is, you know, of course, what Elon Musk is uh doing and having great, you know, benefit from both from a depression standpoint, but also building his brain to peak performance where he's at. A lot of celebrities and people, you know, very recently have started doing it. But what happened for me was I I brought Lamar to do the ketamine, and he had never gone inside his own mind. He'd always been told that psychedelics were dangerous. And you know, as an African-American male, if something went wrong, you know, he could be shot, he could be put in a mental institution, and uh it made sense to me. I was like, oh, I get it. That I wouldn't have touched it either. And so he went inside this first ketamine treatment, and he said it felt like he went to heaven but came back. And he's like, it was so beautiful. I was able to sort of relax myself and have some experience of that. I brought him around to the top ketamine doctors in the country and filmed it doing their protocols with Lamar. And the idea is that you do several treatments to build up enough of those new neural pathways to have like a really strong foundation. And then maybe you would do a booster every three months or every month or every six months, whatever you know feels right for you. And uh, so once he got some experience going inside his mind, uh, I said, look, I think I'm gonna have to bring you down to Mexico to do iboga as ibogaine, which is where they I isolate just the alkaloids in the iboga, and they give you a flood dose, you know, one gram, a thousand milligrams of this iboga, and you have this incredible 12 to 24 hour experience. And Lamar came down there and the doctor gave him the ibogaine, and he had this incredible experience of his mom had died when he was 12 years old. Lamar, because you know, his the addiction had everything to do with trauma and unaddressed trauma. His mom died when he was 12 years old. He had a son die at six months old, like all this stuff. He'd just suppress it, suppress it. And people would come by and because he's a celebrity and the champion, they'd be like, oh, take some of this, come gamble with us. Whatever he had to do, just not to sit there and think about that situation. So, in the Ibu gain, in that experience, he had he heard his mother's voice for the first time in like almost 30 years. He heard her voice, and it's like incredible for him. He saw his son, who died at six months old. He got to see the son spend time with him and watch him grow to be like eight or nine years old, then grow to be a teenager that he would be today. And he ended up he hung out with them. And he's like, just like that alone, for anybody who's lost somebody, like the cybogain is incredible. And just to make the point with the the Puiti, the African tribe that use the iboga for millennia, they use it to get in touch with their ancestors. And so they are they take iboga until they commune with their ancestors. So I was not, I knew he was gonna have some type of interaction with his mom and his son, and you know, people he's lost because he has lost a lot of people in his life. And that happened for him, and he was just like, Wow, you know what? I realize I shouldn't even be alive right now, and I'm getting this second chance. I really got to make the most of it. And when he came out of that that experience, he uh influenced. I'm just gonna uh send this to voicemail. Okay. When he came out of that experience with the I boga, he said, I feel so good right now. This was like 48 hours later. He said, I feel so good right now. I think I can make a comeback in professional basketball. Feel mentally strong, physically strong. And we were driving in the van. It was funny because his uh bodyguard trainer was with us the whole time. And the guy heard Lamar say that, and he was like, Lamar, take it easy, dude. You're 40 years old. You know, you got you'd have to work out four hours a day, and you can't be smoking marijuana. Lamar was like, Yeah, no, I know what I'm I gotta do. I've done it before and I'm gonna do it right now. And without anybody training him or anything or motivating him, he just went to the gym. And about nine months later, he wound up playing in a professional game in Dubai for the Philippines team. And it was like a personal, rocky moment that he would get back on that court and play and have fun. And it's in it's uh Lamar and I did a movie called Lamar Odom Reborn that chronicles this uh psychedelic intervention that I gave him. It's on YouTube, it's on Amazon Prime. He um, you know, he said in the movie at the end of the movie, he's like, you know what? He goes, I'm I know I'm not the player that I used to be, but he's like just to get out there and have fun and you know prove to myself that I still got it. He's like, that was like I want that for everybody. And so, you know, this is so powerful. There's nothing else outside of psychedelics that can heal. You know, we've got a fentanyl problem, of course. And, you know, these aren't drug addicts that are like weak-minded people, these are just like regular people who are having an injury or surgery and they're in pain, legit pain, they take up the drugs, the painkillers, and then after they can't get them anymore, they're still in pain. They have to go and try and get them on the street, and then they're laced with fentanyl. Now you're addicted to fentanyl. And it's like we have if we have ibogain, this iboga that can get people out of a fentanyl addiction, we have to embrace this like today, not even tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Today, yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah, so that's my backstory of myself here and uh to meet others like you. Like I meet you recently, and I'm like, wow, this is so cool! Like actual empathetic doctors are coming into this space. This is amazing. I don't have to even fret anymore about where it's at.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for the recognition, thank you for the work that you are doing. I mean, you're just following, you're creating, you're taking the steps, you're taking action, and you're creating. And with that creation, you are changing millions of people's lives. I mean, that's so powerful, Zappy. It's like, what else? What else do you need in this life?

SPEAKER_02 24:51

I know. Well, you know what? I the the that's a good point because the reason I'm fighting so hard right now, you know, I'm sitting here at my mind army headquarters, and that's my nonprofit. And the mind army, we are fighting for the right to pursue happiness. And we believe it's your inalienable right to be able to go inside your own mind for answers and healing. And so in 2024, we're not gonna sit here and let people tell us that alcohol is good, tobacco's good, but somehow psilocybin and these other plant medicines, they're not good and they're off the table for you or your family, even if they're in you're in crisis or suicidal. Nope, can't touch them. We're just like, you know what? Doctors, most doctors do not even know about nutrition, which could solve maybe 80% of the problems that they're working on. Why would we think they know about psychedelics? They don't ignore them completely and trust people like Johns Hopkins and University of California, San Francisco, where they've been doing this research. That trumps your internal medicine doctor in Boca Ratan. Just do not listen to that person. They're gonna put you on antidepressants, they're gonna tell you to go to talk therapy, and they're not even gonna make a connection between your health and what you're eating and putting in your body. So ignore them. And uh, and the reason that the mind army, like we're we want legalization immediately for plant medicine, given the pandemic and the emergency of you know, depression and PTSD that we all have coming out of the pandemic. We have some amount of PTSD. And then the addiction thing, we've got to, you know, attack this really aggressively. And so we're fighting for legalization immediately, but we're gonna stay vigilant because we know that that what happens is once you get legalization, somebody in the some special interest group or whatever they get in their mind, then they start to say, Oh, well, yeah, we're gonna limit the amount of psilocybin that can be in the thing and they're that and they just like muck it up. We're just not putting up with it at this point. We're saying we're in an actual crisis. This is like a sci-fi movie level of thing we have going on here, and people are very frozen in their fear because not just the pandemic, but actual fears. Putin might blow us up, the air is poison, you can't drink the water, all this stuff, and people are frozen. And so, how do you give somebody an evolutionary leap forward? The only way I've ever seen that, where people have that leap and gain more empathy, is they have a near-death experience or they have a major psychedelic breakthrough. And you can't count on people having these near-death experiences. So we've got to use these psychedelic compounds. They're God-given, they're natural. I mean, having a mushroom microdose, people are like, Oh, I'm a little bit nervous about that. I'm like, I'd be more nervous about drinking a diet coke than I would be about this minute amount of a, you know, I love you.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

I sit with doctors and no longer work at the major institution that I was, I had a very prestigious place in the institution, and I watched my colleagues down Cokes, Dr. Pepper's, all day, and I'm like, oh my god. And they're like, no, no, no, your body, it's fine, it's fine. And guess what? You end up with colon cancer metastatic at age 35. And oh micro microdose of Silicon, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

These doctors, it's weird because they don't connect even plant food and health. I'll make the point, I make the point that when you after an operation, you're coming out, and like the best thing in the world would be for you to eat whole foods and and vitamin rip stuff. And meanwhile, they're like, what would you like? A Salisbury steak with some mashed potatoes and some boiled broccoli? And guess what? You can have as much ice cream as you want. It's like, are you kidding me? Like, this is where your science is at in 2024. No, thank you. The mind army is telling people, as the most radical organization in the psychedelic movement, we're saying, ignore these institutions because on this matter, they just don't know. And you could lose your life or the life of one of your loved ones by listening to these people post-pandemic in this very scary time where you need nature and plant medicine to disrupt the pattern that you're in.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

And that's the that is the sad, sad truth. And in the night, us physicians decided not to stand up for what is right against PPOs and HMOs and that whole thing that came up. We decided to be overwhelmed and stay in our trauma minds. Because, you know, when you look at actually the history of doctors, majority of doctors are very traumatized individuals from childhood and on. And then they go into medicine because of their perfectionism issues or or parental issues that have has caused those traumas to you've got to meet this criteria to be accepted by the culture of the family. And then you take on the traumas of your patients and families and imagine like where we are operating from. It's taken a decade of work for me personally to be here today with you. A decade of intense inner work with and without psychedelics, um, really looking at myself from every angle possible. What am I doing? Why am I doing it? You know, and then recognition of if I'm traumatized, how I'm propagating that in my institution as a physician leader that I was, and how I was watching all these other doctors and people of power create policies that are hurtful to not only the frontline physicians, the nurses, the patients, the families. I mean, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

But to have done the actual work yourself on yourself. I mean, to me, every addiction, and this is why iBoga works, is that every addiction is trauma-based at the bottom line that it you fix that, and you're if your nervous system is balanced, okay, and basically my friends have been saying this, and I agree, is like everybody just wakes up every day trying to balance their nervous system. So you go through the day and you're like, I gotta drink some coffee, I'm gonna have some alcohol, I gotta take an ambient to go to sleep. Like you're just trying to get the balance. So when you start out with, let's say, psilocybin microdosing of mushrooms, and you're taking that, and then you're balanced. When you start thinking, like, oh, should I eat something? And then you're like, nah, I don't, I don't need anything, or should I drink coffee? Nah, it doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't resonate with me. Like so amazing to be balanced. And I see the only way to get there, in my opinion, is through plant medicine, period.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

And you know, I'm gonna couple it because what I see is plant medicine is absolutely life-changing, yes, but I'm gonna bring a couple of other things in. What I have found in my own practices and also my clients and so forth is that you've got to have practices, you've got to commit to that evolution, to that growth, to that intention, and you know, your own journey, how you shared, how cool it was initially, and then you went into it with the intention of, oh, let me find out more about me. It was a different, different paradigm. Wasn't this like, oh, let me lose my mind and see more atom moving? I got the lesson there. Let me move to a paradigm where there's growth and evolution of self and self-discovery. And that's, you know, integration of life practices. I call them conscious life practices. They are what you'd call their meditation, breathing, really optimizing your nervous system, neurobiology, and your physiology and connecting with yourself spiritually, and then being able to uplift your community. And community is very important because remember when Lamar talked at Scicon in Vegas and you guys were up at the podium, he brought that back a lot actually in connection with you and how he was really able to get through his addictions. I don't know the details of what he was going through, but with even Ibogain, he talked about hey, I had Zappy alongside on the path with me, and the support from him and from my community really shaped, you know, the the rest of even if things were coming up from for him, the integration process, I think, is really important.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, no, that's a huge point. I won't I'll make the point that with Lamar as a psychedelic concierge, my job is to get to the bottom of what it is that that client is trying to, what's their intention? Uh, what are they trying to achieve? And then secondly, what are the traumas they're trying to overcome? And so I like a concierge at a hotel, it's that's why I like this moniker because number one, I'm not giving anything to anyone, I'm not a shaman or anything like that. I'm just concierging. And I make the point that I came up with a formula from Lamar, and it wasn't just a one-stop thing, it was basically it was ketamine plus plant medicine plus a daily practice equals a conscious transformation. And so what's cool about psychedelics to me is that after you have the experience, you've built that pattern. And when I'm a 30-year meditator, and sometimes, even for me, it's difficult to get in there and transcend based on what's happening in my day or in that moment or something like that. And what I've noticed is after some of my psychedelic experiences, I can close my eyes. And before I even start doing the mantra, I just like drop into this pattern. I drop really deep. So these are biohacks of nature, is how I'm putting it right now. And I'm saying to people, I would not want to die and be at the pearly gates, and God's there, and she says, you know, what are you doing here? Am I died of this? And God's like, Well, what about all those natural things I put there to help you with this? And I'm like, Oh, well, yeah. Well, I didn't take them because this guy in a white coat told me not to. And God's gonna be like, Oh, okay, well, now you're about to go back for another hundred lifetimes until you figure out how to think for yourself. And so I just feel like the reason I I put such importance on the psychedelic part is if you just do the meditation and the breathing and the all these being in nature, whatever it is, if you can't get yourself into present moment awareness through that, if you can't transcend your human filters, it's gonna just be a band-aid. It's just gonna be something that you're using to battle back whatever you know, traumas and patterns you have in your head. Like we said, they've shown that with these mice, they did an experiment where they were showing the mice a purple light and then they were shocking them, and they kept doing this, and eventually they would turn on the purple light, and the mice would go into a shock reflex, curl up in the corner, but without even getting shocked. So the purple light, then they looked and they looked at the children of those mouths, and when they put the purple light on, their children went into a shock reflex. And their grandchildren, their great-grandchildren went back 13 generations of trauma before that cleared and they showed the purple light. And so you're talking about we all have in our DNA stored every horrifying thing that happened to our great-great-great-great-grandparent, and it's in there. And some of this stuff you're getting triggered by might not even be your own thing. It's just you have to have a biohack to reset yourself into I'm here in the present moment and I'm going forward. And that's what, you know, ketamine and ibogaine and uh these are pattern interrupters that can interrupt even DNA patterns and things like that. So I'm blown away by you know the fact that psychedelic nature's so intelligent that's bringing out these plants, knowing that humans are disrupted with addiction and mental illness, it's doing it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

And we have to, we have to, we have to, and there's no there's no other way, Zappy, that I've sat with and is all of us see it. Like, where are we going? We're definitely not going in the right trajectory. So we have to step in. And one of my Salo Sabin journeys, the last one that I had was a few years ago, and that's what was told to me after I'd gone through figuring out my own traumas of childhood, living in war for the first eight years of my life under the uh terrorist regime in Iran, and uh for the first 14 years of my life, and then immigrating to America, not knowing any English, none. Um, that was in '95, and I was put in a regular, amazing high school, public school with other American children. Didn't know anything about the culture, uh language. And so it was it was very depressing and very traumatic just to immigrate, though I found a lot more freedoms in particular ways, of course, you know, as time went on.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Oh, what a story. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

I don't think if I were you, I'd be sitting here because I didn't even have to experience that. I would I definitely would be speaking very slowly if this was my second language. But uh no, I want to say that what's exciting to me, the most exciting to me about ketamine, and as soon as I did it, I had the experience with the doctor. Um and I was like, oh my God, like that was the best part of my ayahuasca experience. But with all the dieting and integration, I didn't need that because the ketamine uh isn't a plant medicine. It's actually made from some salts and things. They process salt and they get this ketamine crystal. Because it's this mini micro tuning crystal, it's it's the same across billions of molecules. It's not like mushrooms, where one mushroom in the same tray could have all kinds of psychedelic properties. The other one has nothing. You really don't know because of the soil and who harvested and who picked it and made it, whatever it is. But the ketamine is so consistent. I find it never goes into a bad trip or anything. It's just very down the middle. And so for me, I feel like you know, people are frozen, they're in this trauma, frozen, and you they need a pattern interrupt. And you take the ketamine, and all of a sudden, all that chatter, you're sitting there with your eyes closed, right there, all the chatter goes away. You're in present moment awareness. And so when you come out 35 minutes later, you are kind of transformed because you're like, wow, like I don't have chatter, and I'm right here in the present going forward. And I make this point about the ketamine, how powerful it is. The number one side effect is it breaks suicidal ideation. If somebody's in thinking about suicide and they're talking that way, immediately get them the ketamine. Because what happens is when you're in that experience in 35 minutes, while you're in present moment awareness without all this chatter, uh, what happens is that usually when you're going to kill yourself, you think, hey, I only have two options, either keep doing what I'm doing or I kill myself. That's it. Just these two things. And all of a sudden you're in the academy and your eyes are closed, and all of a sudden, like 10 more option sets open up. And you're like, wait a minute, I like doing that, which could, oh, it might even lead to that. Oh, this is so interesting. Wow. Okay. And then you come out and you're like, I'm not suicidal. I'm intrigued. I'm fine. I want to see where this thing goes. And if you do a series of treatments and build up enough foundational new neural pathways of I'm here in the present and I'm going forward, that's how you clear this stuff. And I had an experience where I intentionally cleared some something that was in my uh field that I needed to clear, and I got comfortable with Academy and stuff. And I had this business deal where I wasn't really in charge of it. I had started and everything, but my friends who were in charge of it, they wound up selling it very early. And everybody made a bunch of money, but I knew that it was a bad thing. So, you know, a a couple of years later, when the person who bought it from us sold it for hundreds of millions more dollars, I was like, why would the universe like take this, you know, 75 million from me? Like, why didn't I just get this? You know, why is that? And I just had like kind of like a chip on my shoulder about it, and I would have to see commercials on CNN for the brand. And it was like, it was like a trauma thing that I was like, why? And so I intentionally went into my academy, thought about it, I looked at it, and I had that realization that I was like, well, here you are if you that had happened. That's your path, and here you are in your path where you've been able to, you know, make the reality of truth and share that um and these things. And it's like, and then I thought about it, I was like, Yeah, you know what? I'd rather be on the path I'm on. So I'm glad I'm on the path. Okay, never have to think about it again. And it was like, I can still think about it, but it doesn't have the same electrical charge that it used to have. And so I see people go in there with some intention to ketamine and really clear out some patterns, whether that's abuse or you know, things that have happened to just take the electric charge off. And so that's like so exciting that you can proactively use this crystal, this microcrystal to clear your trauma and to give you like an actual evolutionary leap because it's building new gray matter in your brains. It's a miracle. People always think, oh, this is you know, happy, you don't think this isn't a panacea. And I'm like, well, it's pretty close to a panacea, actually, because you know, all those people who have, you know, war trauma, like we were talking about in Ukraine and that kind of stuff, they can't just sit down and meditate or breathe. It's gonna be very difficult. They actually need a pattern interrupt where they think to themselves, hey, you know what? This is gonna be over at some point, and I'm me, and I'm gonna go forward and I'm okay. And if you can't get to that place on your own, which is very difficult. Maybe I don't know, a few percentage of people could get there on their own with their mind. You're gonna have to use some kind of a pattern interruption like ketamine, which thank God it's so safe that they give it to babies. It's the number one anesthetic used by oral surgeons on children because it doesn't affect their breathing and all that. So it's this is a miracle, you know. It's like absolutely ketamine-safe society. And then probably psilocybin mushroom microdosing will be the thing that keeps people from, it balances their nervous system and keeps them from having to drink alcohol, take drugs, re-eat for emotional trauma and all that stuff. And then lastly, like you and I were talking about before, I would love to see the Native Americans be the people who hold space for people to do peyote or mushrooms or have these journeys. Like they should be the group on their land where they first get these medicines for themselves, like Ibogaine to break that trauma with alcohol and all that, math and these things. And then they should be the ones that hold the space because, like you and I were saying, if you can have Las Vegas in this country where they have a place where you can get addicted to gambling, alcohol, drugs, everything else, if you have cures, you have to be able to send people, say, to New Mexico to go to a reservation and sit with these plant medicines and reboot yourself out of that uh disaster loop that you find yourself in. So it's an absolute solution. That's what's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, it is. And if you figured it out, I mean, it takes a long time to get to this point. It's not an overnight situation, right? Um, now I have a question for you. I think ketamine is awesome. I'm certified in it myself. Um, I would love to hear your set and setting and whether you what you're using currently is a slow infusion, is it I am injection? Is it over multiple hours? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Yeah, so what I've done is I believe from all the hundreds of people I've sat with and my own experience, and I've done group ketamines and individual ones. The best set in setting, it turns out, is to do it in your own home with a medical professional so that you don't have to be driven to some clinic or driven home, even worse, from some clinic, or be in an Uber after you just had this transcendental experience. But if, you know, the thing about ketamine, you just want to be watched over, it's very safe. But the only thing that can happen is after it's over, you could fall or you could drown if there's water. So I started a service in Los Angeles. I'm it's going to be nationwide, but in Los Angeles to begin with, called KETA VIP. And we send a nurse right out to your house, they do an intramuscular shot on you, they communicate with the doctor, and then they do an intramuscular shot of ketamine about 20 minutes into that experience, which lasts about 35 minutes or so, about 25, 20 minutes in, we nudge you and ask if you want to go deeper and metabolize more ketamine. Most people, of course, do, and they give you a second shot. And so the whole experience is less than a couple hours. You're in your house. You can most of these are done at night and on weekends. So you can just relax on your own house in your own house or go to bed and you wake up the next day and it's like are rebooted. You feel amazing, you're you're clear, you don't have this trauma on top of you. And so that ketav IP, I really believe that is the best way to do it is to do an intramuscular shot because the difference is, and I want to make this point really clear: any abuse of ketamine that you're seeing in nightclubs and people talking about people doing ketamine right now recreationally, those people are snorting the ketamine up their nose like you do with cocaine. They're snorting it. And anytime you snort anything, like it's gonna go into your nasal cavity and hit your opiate receptors. So it can be very addictive because it's hitting your opiate receptors, hits your ocular nerve. It's just not the same thing as medical ketamine. And by medical ketamine, I'm talking about an injection of ketamine or maybe a lozenge that melts in your mouth and goes into your mucosa. But the lozenges, the problem with it is the bioavailability is all over the map. Some people get a little bit, some get a lot. Depends on all kinds of factors. With the intramuscular shot, if you give somebody 100 milligrams of ketamine, they're getting 100 milligrams bioavailable. And so our technique is to give you the first shot, you're there, and then to give you a second shot, let you go deeper, and then you metabolize more ketamine than you otherwise would have if you went into a clinic and got, you know, one shot or one IV kind of thing. And so there's the third way that people do it is in some of these clinics is it's intravenous, and they'll drip it over 45 minutes. I don't happen to like that as much as the intramuscular because you're getting, when you do the intramuscular, you're getting all the medicine at the same time. And the point of ketamine and the reason that it's different than all the other psychedelics, all the other ones are hallucinogenics, but the ketamine is a dissociative. So it's dissociating, it's it's separating your left and right brain and just letting them communicate without your ego getting involved. And so you want people to get deep enough that they actually get that dissociation. And unfortunately, a lot of clinics and anesthesiologists and people don't really have the experience with the experience itself and things. So they just dose you low and they have no idea, and then they just send you out into the parking lot. And so what we do is we are coming in there, we're, you know, giving you the preparation, we give you the experience, the nurse is there the whole time until you're ready and they leave hours later. And then uh a few days later, we do an integration call over Zoom with a ketamine assistant therapist who can help you to integrate that experience, give you the feedback loop that it is as incredible as it seems. And with the KetavIP, we want to create some community as well where you know you can get those feedback loops from other people, be part of group events, be part of things. So it's this is the solution. It's not inexpensive in that it's not covered by insurance right now because unfortunately um there's a lot more money in keeping people uh ill than just getting them all of a sudden better. Um, so that is a situation. But I want to make one point. This is the most exciting thing about the psychedelic industry, is that everybody, when you talk to them, they go, Zappy, this sounds amazing. But what about the pharmaceutical companies? Aren't they gonna suppress this? And I say, no, because on our side, we have an even bigger 800-pound gorilla, bigger than the pharmaceutical companies, which is the health insurance companies like United Healthcare, Kaiser. These are the guys who are buying all the pharmaceutical pills for everybody. And those guys, I've been in the room with them, I've been in their research places, and they're telling the pharmaceutical companies, you guys need to get to these psychedelics right now because we're not going to pay for these expensive antipsychotics. We don't like paying for people going into the emergency room on a Saturday night having a panic attack. This is no, if ketamine, suicide mushrooms can be effective, we want these out. Start doing the research. And you've started seeing a couple weeks ago, uh, one of the major pharmaceuticals, Ab V, just made an investment or partnership with Gilgamesh, uh, a psychedelic company, um, all kinds of things happening in the space. United Healthcare themselves, they consulted to the top people there, and they're doing a side-by-side with ketamine versus Johnson and Johnson's very expensive S-ketamine, which is like a mirror molecule that they came up with where they were like spravata. We get to charge insurance tens of thousands of dollars instead of this cheap ketamine that anybody can actually it's fifty bucks a vial that can you be used for how many sessions?

SPEAKER_00 52:21

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Yeah, yeah. Regular ketamine, that's like a five dollars of treatment. But the with the spravado, you've got you know, thousands per treatment that they're billing insurance, and the the highest dose they can give you with the spravado is 26 milligrams in one nostril, 26 in the other, so that's 52 milligrams. The bioavailability, you're probably wind up getting like 15 milligrams of the ketamine. And when we do an intramuscular, you're getting between the two shots, 100 milligrams. Number one, you're gonna dissociate, which is the point. And then secondly, you're gonna have built that much more new neural pathways than you could ever get with all these treatments of the S- ketamine. So I I commend United Healthcare and Kaiser and these guys, and they're they're stepping into it, and uh, they're not gonna let the pharmaceutical companies dictate how quickly psychedelics are or how how much longer they're inaccessible. It's about to be very accessible through amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

And this is exactly what we need. We need massive shifts in in our consciousness and how we do things and how we treat people. And, you know, that's my passion in what I do as um I've gone through my journey is let's shift how we practice medicine because it is not working and doctors aren't happy and patients aren't happy. Then what are we doing? You know, my grandfather in Iran was an internal medicine physician for 40 years and he died when I was 12, but he left such a beautiful impression. He was the most humane person I've ever known. He knew 2,000 lines of Persian poetry by heart. Um, and he would tell us stories. He would be with patients and really sit with them and have a sacred relationship with them. He would hold space for them, not just push drugs on them. There would be stories that he would get paid in it was so sweet in eggs, you know? Um and the community just loved him. He became the director for health the health department in Tehran back in the day, which is a huge deal. Came from a very poor family from outside of Tehran and got sponsored by his uh uncle to become a physician, was the first in his family for generations to even go to school and became a doctor. Um provided a beautiful life for his family and for his community. So that's where I come from. And I came to America and I'm like, oh my God, this is could not be further away from that utopic medical model that I was raised with, that dream model. And so doing the work that I do in psychedelics is that taking a group of physicians to uh Mexico in August for psilocybin retreats. And for this reason, we need to get through our trauma.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

I want to tell you, I did uh a group of doctors with a psychedelic weekend. The highlight was our group ketamine experience on a Saturday night. And those were Yale doctors and Harvard doctors and all these people. And I say out of the 25 people in the group, 18 of them had never done psychedelics before. And so this ketamine was going to be their first one, and they had such an incredible experience to a person. They fixed their relationship with their mother, they figured out what they wanted to do next, they lost the fear of dad. It was like we went around the room. I was like, oh my God, like this would take years of heavy therapy for some of these people to get right here and just got there in the last hour. Um, so I really believe that what you're doing with the doctors here, this is very important because, of course, celebrity, we're living in a celebrity-driven culture, so people want to know what they're doing and follow them and be like them, but really the people who can change the society and the medical system, it's we've got to get the doctors now and the politicians to have these experiences and realize wow, this is the solution, it's part of the solution. And and we don't have a solution really, probably without it in mass. Because, you know, coming back to that empathy crisis I was talking about that society is having, if we could get a critical mass of people to go inside their own minds and emerge with more empathy, if we had a raised level of empathy, we could solve any problem we have as a society. You know, we could, you know, just collectively come up with a solution, even think about things like, oh, wait, what about water in 50 years? Things that we're not even contemplating because we're our empathy is not there uh for that kind of thing. So I think the empathy crisis will be solved by the psychedelics. And I just want to make one more point. I was telling you about it before, the water. Like, what does water have to do with the mind army? And the mind army, we believe water is your inalienable right. And the reality is you can live with without food for quite a long time. You can live without everything, but without water, you're gonna die in a couple of days. And so, how do we secure our water situation? The mind army is saying this is a fundamental right. And so we're here in Florida, and we came together with a company called Altitude Water, where it's actually extracting the moisture from the air, cleaning it, filtering it, remineralizing it, and making this fresh water from the air. And it's unlimited. We're making, I got a machine right over here that makes 10, 12 gallons a day of the best, freshest water. And then we ozonate it every 20 minutes so it has it's clean and very oxygen-rich this water. And so a the mined army did a mobile emergency unit where we have a machine that makes 200 gallons of water a day in the back of this trailer with uh dispensers, and we're gonna bring that thing around to disasters, hurricane fires and stuff, just pull up and say, hey, first responder, victim, you got 200 gallons of fresh water a day. We have solar on it, so it's literally free water. And I'm like, why would people be drinking water right now from the ground that we know now, even if it's from a deep glacier or some mountain or whatever it is, water that comes from the water table in the ground, anywhere other than the air, has fertilizer, pesticides, lithium, microplastics, all in these water. People are drinking water bottles that have microplastics. And instead, just like plant medicine, going back to nature, which is what the mind army is about. It's just like think for yourself, go back to nature. Okay, we've got the plants to help us, and we've got the water right here in the air. Let's just take it from there and try to suck it out of the ground and filter out all these horrendous poisons. And so the mind army, I would invite everybody to come to mindarmy.org, support the cause. We are fighting for legalization. We're bringing out, you know, real solutions. And uh, these are very uh, very easy, simple. It's like go back to nature, take your water from the sun and the air, get your medicine from the plant that exists, let somebody process this thing to a point where you're dependent on them. And in the water situation, if you have one of these machines and 12 gallons a day, you're water independent. You're not counting on the local government municipality to keep your water clean, which we've seen, you know, in Flint, Michigan. And the other day, a pipe broke in Atlanta and people had to boil their water. You are independent of them and independent of these plastic water bottle companies. And so, in this way, I want to just really encourage people to go back to nature. That's what this campaign is about. All the solutions are there. It's not difficult. You just have to think a little bit differently. And after the pandemic, either that's causing you to think differently, or hopefully you can have some, you know, proper set-and-setting psychedelic experience where you can just think different for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Incredible. Incredible. And I'm just so curious. I know we don't have much time, but so curious about the technology that you guys came up with. I don't know the history behind it with the water. Like that is Yeah. And does the does the humidity of air, like, you know, the uh New Mexico is pretty dry. So, you know, in Florida, you have humidity is like this 97% during the you know summer months. And Atlanta, I lived in Atlanta for 17 years and you just come out drenched. And so my question is how like how does the humidity of the air where you live affect it? And how accessible is this machine to households?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

Yeah, so it's actually very accessible, but to the point about the water, obviously the more humidity you have in the air, the more water you're gonna be able to make. The machines very are very intelligent and they're getting more intelligent. So in places where there's like a morning dew and things, the machine can work very efficiently in the morning time and not necessarily work during the afternoon and things where the sun's blazing is very low humidity to pull from the air. So in some places you're gonna make a lot of water, some places you might make less. And in some places, you need to be strategically positioned. Anyone who's living like near a golf course, let's say in Arizona or New Mexico or anything, there's a lot of humidity in that air at different times that the machine can pull from. And there's new waves, there's this new terraforma that's available that they're putting out. It's like a chia seed, basically, can hold 50 times its weight in water. So you put this terraform into the ground and you start to bring back these deserts into greens and holding water, and that's it able to enhance how much water you're able to make. But for the moment, you think about Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Louisiana, all of South America, Houston, like these places, they shouldn't be taking any water from the ground because A, it's poison, and B, it's you know, a waste to do it and truck these things in and have all these prices. Because especially in Florida, as soon as there's a hurricane, as soon as they announce there might be on TV, you go to the supermarket and there's no more water left. So now you're drinking tap water that you're boiling in this. Not me. I'm independent. I am making 10, 12 gallons a day. My big machine sitting there making 200 gallons a day, and anybody who's part of our network has water. And I think for communities, whether they're churches or a temple or mosques or community group or homeowners association, you've got to get your water secured. And there's all these people leader that are like the prepping for doomsday people. And I ask them, I say, What's your water strategy? Like, well, I have 200 gallons of water stored in my basement. I'm like, oh, hey, that's great. What are you doing after, you know, 100, 200 days about your water? And like, uh and so it's like, if you don't have your water, I'm like, if you don't have your water secured like this, then on the 201st day, somebody else is going to be eating your food and you're gonna be dead. Let's start thinking about this. And the way you get people to think, you know, is to open their minds and just give them, you know, uh a better platform to think from. And I think if you're thinking straight, you realize that if there is a God, which I happen to believe there's intelligence in the universe, that if there is a God that, and God's all-knowing, and all the religions say yes, God knows everything, okay, well then God would have known that we're gonna go through a pandemic and have a fentanyl crisis. Wouldn't that God have been intelligent enough to leave some natural things here to help us to deal from that? And like I don't even care who you are, you're they're just kind of like, yeah, I guess that does make sense if God knows everything. Hmm, okay. So it's like, you know, just whatever way, if it's religious, if it's, you know, scientifically, it's just like we have to we have these things available. If we're thinking properly about them, then we'll know how to, you know, work with them and enhance them, make them safer. Because, you know, people are like, well, uh uh, maybe the government just doesn't feel safe yet with psychedelics. That's why they haven't put them out. And that's why they're on schedule one. And I have to say, well, okay, well, schedule one uh means that it has no medical benefit and that it could be highly addictive. I'm like, first of all, psychedelics are totally non-addictive and they have major health benefits, so that that doesn't work. And then secondly, if that's your definition, then why aren't cigarettes on schedule one? They're highly addictive and they're killing all these people. Opioids. Yeah, or opioid. I mean, those at least have a use. Sure. But a cigarette, I mean, like, definition of you know, no medical benefit, highly addictive. But they're not on schedule one. No, so that means we have something bigger going on here, and we as the citizens post-pandemic have to just demand our right back and just say, hey, 2024, we're gonna do what we want to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:24

I love it. Love it, Zappy. How can people find you and the amazing work that you're doing? Tell us all the ways, and it's all gonna be in the show notes.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Beautiful. Okay, so definitely check out mindarmy.org. Um, and you can also see me on uh at Zappy Zappalin, Z-A-P-P-Y, Zappalin, Z-A-P-O-L-I-N, like a violin, zappy zappalan. I'm at zappy zappalin. I have zappyzappalin.com. You can check out what what I'm doing. But get involved because you know, this we're so early in the psychedelic industry. You know, I worked on Wall Street, like I said. I was a vice president of Bear Stearns, and I'm bringing that knowledge to this. And I'm saying to people, we're in the first inning of this new business. And when I've been in the beginning of a trillion-dollar industry like the internet, legal cannabis, cryptocurrency, AI, when you're in the beginning of these things, if you can make a few very small investments in high-quality things, you can create generational wealth for your family. So there's already three or four psychedelic companies that have major funding to do their research. If you as an investor invest in some of those companies, you know, follow me and I'll let you know which ones and when to sell and all that kind of stuff. But if you get in now, very similar to like when the pharma companies in the 1950s came out or the biotech companies in the 90s, if you put a very small amount, hundreds of dollars into there, you can create generational wealth. Don't sell it, don't even look at it. But when you lift your head up in the next few years or 10 years or whatever it is, you will have created a fortune because you were in at the beginning of one of these trillion-dollar industries. And so I encourage people, if you're listening, you're super early because of Lita. And who deserves more to make money right now than you people? Definitely not the people who are going to come later who are just in it for the money. I assume if you get turned on to this, you make money, you're a high conscious person, you're thinking different, you're going to use that money in a better way than these investors and these institutions that are going to come in in the next, you know, six months, 12 months when California goes legal and this happens and that. They're going to make all the money. So I'd rather be people who are hearing about it today. And so if you know Lita, you're way ahead of the curve. And it's just one more way from psychedelics.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

Awesome. Thank you so much, Zapi. What a gem. Thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Thank you for being a doctor and bringing all that knowledge, but bringing it, you know, to this space because we really need that credibility because people, you know, even though the Harvard studies have been done and John Top, we need people to, you know, transform that knowledge into us regular people. And that can really only be doctors. So, you know, as one of the first, I want to say that I intend to keep following you and, you know, being educated about how these two, you know, the old paradigm of medical and this new paradigm, how they come together and uh what the future looks like.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.