Not Forgotten

In 2023 and 2024, the number of recovered remains of women and girls in the desert west of El Paso, in Doña Ana County, New Mexico, rose to 130. The circumstances surrounding these deaths raise difficult questions about trafficking, migration, violence against women, and systemic failures that leave vulnerable people at risk.

In this episode of She Fights, Heather Winkeljohn speaks with Abbey Carpenter, co-leader of Battalion Search and Rescue, a humanitarian all-volunteer organization that searches for lost but not forgotten migrants in Arizona and New Mexico. Alongside co-leader James Holeman, Abbey has spent years working in some of the harshest terrain in the Southwest, helping recover the missing and bringing answers to families.

Abbey discusses the realities of search and recovery operations, the challenges facing border communities, and the broader issues surrounding violence against women in New Mexico, a state that continues to rank among the highest in the nation for violence against women.

Abbey Carpenter is the author of The Tortilla Star, Dora: A Daughter of Unforgiving Terrain, and the forthcoming Not Forgotten. She lives in Silver City, New Mexico, and Ajo, Arizona.

This conversation explores loss, resilience, unanswered questions, and the ongoing work of those determined to ensure that the missing are never forgotten. 

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Hosted by Heather Winkeljohn, She Fights shines a light on women who have faced life’s toughest battles and emerged stronger. Through compassionate conversations that inspire hope and resilience, Heather reminds us that while every woman fights a different battle, none of us has to fight alone. 

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Disclaimer:
This episode is shared for educational and storytelling purposes only and is not intended to replace professional therapy, counseling, or medical care. Heather Winkeljohn is not a licensed therapist or mental health professional. The views and experiences shared by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Heather Winkeljohn or She Fights or UnstoppableVoicesMedia.com. If you are struggling, we encourage you to seek support from a qualified professional.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

There's a lot of women out there with stories of strength and resilience that go untold. Not anymore. Join me now for two fights.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Welcome to T Fights with Heavy Welcome John Spotify Fights Martin Self-Defense. The podcast will read you all powerful and inspiring stories of women who face the unimaginable. Survive. Some conversations explore heavy emotional life experiences. Please take care of listening when it feels right for you. The battles with illness and injustice, the triumphs of resilience, courage, and hope. These are the voices that refuse to be silenced. Real women, real stories, unbreakable spirit. This is She Fights.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Joining me today is Abby Carpenter, and Abby is the co-leader of the Battalion Search and Rescue with James Holman. They lead the humanitarian all-volunteer search and rescue group, which searches for lost but not forgotten migrants in Arizona and New Mexico. She's also the author of the Tortillas Star, Dora, a daughter of unforgiving terrain, and also a forthcoming book, Not Forgotten. And she lives in Silver City, New Mexico, and Ajo, Arizona. More recently, the battalion has located the remains of over 130 women and girls in the desert area west of El Paso in Doña Aña County, New Mexico. Some of these remains include 16-year-old girls. And according to James, who co-leads the group, they are seeing the combined failure of authorities to respond, recover, and investigate. And this creates conditions in which violence against women goes unchecked. So thank you, Abby, for taking the time today to talk about this important issue for joining us. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Thank you, Heather, for inviting me. I just want to clarify at the beginning that the those 130 women and girls have been found, but not by us. We have worked in that area for about two and a half years, and we've located 40 sites with human remains. But 130 total is for a longer period of time.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Wow. Still, still very unsettling. Yeah. So can you take us to the moment that made you want to start the battalion? What your group does, and what prompted the formation of it?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yes. James started working with these California-based search groups in uh 2018. And he worked with them for several years and then decided to start his own group, which he did in 2020. And he worked searching in the Arizona deserts. And then he moved to New Mexico. He wanted to extend the searching down into New Mexico. And that's where I met him in 2023. And I started working with him, doing searches in the New Mexico area. And we're doing it primarily in Doña Ana County, just west of El Paso. And we also continue to search in Arizona in the winter when it's not so hot. So we do that, those in the winter, and then we do New Mexico year-round because we come back and forth. And you know, I have always volunteered my whole life. I've done different things, and I taught English as a second language. I worked with refugees and to find.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

I taught ESL. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yeah. It will change your life. It'll draw you into this amazing world of different cultures. It's uh really enriched me working with so many different people. And when I found out what James was doing, I thought I want to be a part of that because I like being of service. I like physical work, and it's something I can do. Sometimes these really large institutional problems seem so immobile. I can't do anything about them. I can't change the immigration system, but I can do this. I can search. The families can't come across usually to search for their loved ones. I can do that. And so it was a good combination of me of being a service in something that I already believed in.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Right. And so when your team is out searching specifically in Dona Ana County, what are you actually encountering on the ground?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Well, we have a lot of volunteers from El Paso and from Las Cruces, and they're primarily women and they're from all walks of life. We have former military, we have immigration lawyers, nuns, retirees, teachers. So we we get together once a month and we go into the desert. It's really close, really easy access in New Mexico. We form a long line, evenly spaced, and we walk a grid pattern so that we're really covering very carefully one direction. We turn around, we come back the other direction, and we do that as many times as we have planned for. And we are finding skeletal human remains almost every month, month after month after month. And we are now prohibited from going near the border wall because the government took that land, the BLM land, and transferred it to the Department of the Defense. It's a national defense area. So down closer to the wall, that's where the border patrol still is. We can't go into that area. So they, we are assuming, are finding human remains there. And we're above the Columbus Highway, which is Highway 9, it goes from Columbus, New Mexico over to El Paso. So we search right above that and we find human remains. And what you talked about at the beginning of the introduction is that we're mainly finding female remains. And it's the anomaly is incredible in New Mexico. So that county has 55% of the remains that are known by gender are female, which is so out of proportion. The rest of the border, the other four states, the average is between 15 and 20% female. So something's happening in this area. Why there are so many females? We don't know. We're trying to get investigation to look into that.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So have you been trained, or has anyone in your group been trained to know what the remains are? Or how can you tell the women from the men, or or if that makes any sense, or from animals for that matter?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, I wasn't in the medical profession, and it's sort of upsetting to me to realize that I can identify human remains now from seeing so many. I've seen probably 90 over the two and a half years between the two states. And as far as female to male, we can usually tell because of the clothing that's there. Little shoes, bras, pink panties, the female things once in a while. We're so fortunate to find identification. But those are the things that we can tell. Um, we have an osteologist, a friend of ours, who I, if I'm not sure if they're human or not, I can take photos and send them to her and she can identify that. I have a book on my phone that I can look and see different kinds of remains and to see if they're human or not. And then when we find these remains, we do three things at the site, official things. You know, we make we make a really clear GPS points of where these remains are, several of them. We put pink ribbon up in the bushes so that it's designed to help the people that are going to recover those remains find the site. And we take photos with forensic rulers on certain bones to identify them. And then usually we do a fourth thing, which is we have a moment of silence or someone says a prayer. Um, we speak, we think of the family and the deceased person there. And then we form our line again and we continue on. We don't call in the site at that point because we have found multiple sites with human remains on the same day. So we just continue searching and then we report that later.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

And so I know you guys, uh, according to James, have tried to contact investigators, law enforcement. Has there been pushback or dismissal from these people, from officials and investigators about how these findings are interpreted? What has their response been or lack of response been?

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Wow, it's a little bit of a long answer. We, you know, the deaths in New Mexico were at a very single digits, very low for a long time. They most of the deaths were in other states, and then they started to rise from single digits to double and then keep going. And so a couple of years ago, they were almost 200 per year. They've been at 200 per year in of found remains in Arizona for decades. So they're used to it and they know how to work with that. And we figured, okay, New Mexico is going to have a little learning curve, but they haven't stepped forward. You know, they have been obstructive since the first finding of remains. It took them eight days to go out to a site where we had her ID. I mean, it was an incredible gift. So it has been that problem since then. There was actually a two-month period where they literally did not go out and collect the remains at all, at all. Not go out and click some and not collect others, which we've seen, but they didn't go out. And so James is doing amazing work with social media to try to bring this to the attention of um, we talked with our state rep, a state senator, um, representative from the governor's office, the attorney general, the FBI, the county commissioners, trying to bring this to their awareness. And part of the problem is that these deaths are looked at, we believe, individually. Here's a death, and they they say it's exposure. Here's a death, that's exposure, here's a death, that's exposure. And they haven't pulled back and looked at these deaths as a conglomerate. Why are so many women dying here? It's two to three times as much as anywhere on the border. Have they stepped back and looked at it? So many of these deaths are just labeled as exposure. You know, the person died of exposure, exposure, exposure, one after the other. Did they do a crime scene investigation? We don't know. We'd love for somebody to do investigate that because we find these sites that are so suspicious where the woman's clothes and her everything is separate, and then all her bones are quite a ways away. That's not how we normally find remains. Usually their bones are within the clothing. And there's hate to say this, you know, shoe marks and things from animals, but they're separate. Did she remove her clothes over there? Did somebody else remove her clothes? Is the Dona Anna County Sheriff and the Office of the Medical Investigator investigating these as crime scenes? Or are they just collecting the remains, checking a box that says exposure, not looking at as a whole? So that's what we're trying to get is these women, these families, they deserve dignity. They deserve investigations, just like a death in another part of our state would.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Right. Do you feel there's any connection to you know the murders that have been going on of women in the Juarez area that have gone on for years, or any connection to missing and murdered indigenous women? I feel like a gosh, if you guys were ever on the reservation, oh my goodness, you'd probably experience or have some similar findings. Or any connection to Zoro Ranch, because it's at least five hours away. But do you think there's any connection to any of those other things that we hear about?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Well, I would love for somebody to investigate this. Right. We went to the Niuna Mass conference about the women in Juarez, and I learned a lot there. And one of the things they said was they reinvestigated the deaths of some of these women and they found out that they were asphyxiated. Is that what's happening here in New Mexico? That they say it's exposure, but she was actually asphyxiated before. I mean, these so that perhaps there's some connection there.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

We do know that women are trafficked, sex trafficked, you know, that the cartels are involved now. When they make the border that difficult to cross, then they are opening the door for people who want to make money to help people get in. The cartels. So there's a there's a price on their head to get to to come across. So missing and murdered indigenous women, who knows?

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

If they don't investigate these deaths, then who knows how they got there? And if they're a missing person from anywhere in New Mexico, not just that they're they've crossed from the southern border in. So there's there could be a connection, we don't know. Um it needs to be investigated.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

And so, from what you've personally seen, what do you believe is contributing most to the deaths? Or is it in your experience, do you feel it's exposure to the elements? Is it nefarious, you know, homicide, or is it a mix?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

The bigger answer to that for me is that this is death by policy. Death by policy. The United States has this prevention through deterrence policy that came in under Clinton in the 90s that said, let's let's close the easier pathways for immigration into the United States around the cities, and let's funnel them into these deadly killing fields. They don't call them that, where we know that they are likely to die. They knew this, and that will act as a deterrence from them coming up. Didn't work. They knew it didn't work, it causes death. So 30 years later, we still have this policy that says you have to risk your life for a misdemeanor to enter into the United States. And that prevention through deterrence was too prompt. You know, one was to strengthen that border and to funnel them into these deadly areas, and the second one was to work on the immigration system. They haven't, they haven't. So at this point, there's almost no legal way to come into the United States. It's in and to get asylum, which is, you know, another way, is almost impossible. So we don't give them any options. So I think these deaths are part of that. The cause of their deaths is that we haven't looked and said, why are people coming here? We look at how do we stop them, but not why are they coming here? To look at those bigger issues so that we might address those. So that's the bigger question as far as how do they actually die? I don't know. We have seen people alive there at the border and talk to them. Two women and a girl, an eight-year-old from El Salvador on the United States side, and they crossed that 30-foot wall and their coyote abandoned them. So here are these three women. It was uh it was 100 degrees in the afternoon, all by themselves, nowhere to go, no help. What are they gonna do? Walk by themselves forward into the desert until we find them the next month. So, what caused that? These women are lied to. You know, this woman was saying they lied, they lied, they lied, and I've heard that from other people. It's that they don't prepare them, they lie to them, they promise them what they can't have, and then they die.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Yeah, and it seems like there's no easy answer because when the borders were fully open, we had this huge influx of trafficking and the unescorted children. And then if we tighten it down, then they funnel through these dangerous areas, like you've just said. Yeah, the the women are are the biggest victims in the in this story, right? Because and the children, because they just want a better life, and like you said, they're lied to, they're promised things on this side, and certainly don't get those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And for a woman to leave her home in another country, it's an act act of desperation to leave your your home, your mother, uh, your family, your language, your culture, your customs, and to make that treacherous journey up north, you know, you're trying to save your daughter from being sex trafficked by cartels down there. You're you're trying to feed your children because your coffee plantation has now been taken over by a multi-corporation, international corporation. You are desperate. It's an act of desperation to come here. And then for us to tell them, come across the legal way, there is no legal way, and they don't want to be coming. And this is the way that we make them come, and then they die. And then for us to not go out and collect their remains, we honor our dead, we bury our dead. Why wouldn't we do that to our neighbors? It doesn't make any sense to me. It it's it goes to that that we have normalized migrant deaths. Like, okay, you know, things should have come across the right way, they should have known better, they should have prepared better. We're blaming them instead of thinking, oh, this is a this was a life. This was somebody with connections with family, not just a death, not just a dot.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yeah. And so, how has this kind of work changed you personally?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

It's made me more vocal that I'm a witness where other people aren't. I see this every month, twice a month, and I want to bring this to the attention of the American public. It seems like many times I feel like it's a rescue, like, oh, I we have found you. We will not let you be disappeared by the desert, by the sands, by the animals. We're going to report you, have you collected? You may never be identified, you may never possibly make it home, but you're not going to be forgotten. You're going to become a statistic, a dot on this map. We have the migrant mortality map, and all those dots are lost lives so that you United States can look at this and say, these deaths are on our hands. These deaths are these deaths are on public lands in the United States. Where in the world can you go for a hike and find a dead person? We're not at war on our land. So it's changed me by uh making me want to um bring this to the attention of the United States because I think sometimes how many deaths will it take before we say, okay, that's enough. That's enough. That's that's just enough. 10,000, 20,000, 30, 40,000, 50. What's the number that the American public is going to say, no, that's not right? So I do my part and I speak about it. So it's changed me that way.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Yeah. And when you go out with your group, and I you mentioned you do kind of a line and a grid formation. How long are you out there? How many is this hours that you're out there?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Or yeah, it's hours, and it depends on the heat of the day. You know, in the summertime in in New Mexico and the but the border, it gets really hot. But we usually do between five and ten miles, and we're we're hiking, we're looking at about two miles an hour because it's tough. We're not on a path, it's it's deep sand, there's plants everywhere, there's pokey things, there's snakes that and and you're looking left and right and left and right, and you scan out, and then you look behind you, and you go around these things, and it's just it's a steady pace, it's looking, it's constantly turning your head, trying not to fall in a an animal hole, checking for things, keeping your spacing distance from the other people so we don't let something be missed. And our volunteers they continue to show up, and you know, I'm just so thankful for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

And so have you had any response from from law enforcement or investigators? What is do they typically just take your information, take the report, and then there's just never any follow-up? Or what what are you experiencing there? What's the first step when you find these remains? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

We do those three steps at the um site with the the GPS and the flagging and the photos, and and then the next day we have a report that we fill out that has uh my name, email, phone number, and has the GPS points, it has the directions to how many miles down this dirt road and how many this way, then it has what we found, which parts of the body, and then what else we found: a cell phone, clothes, backpack, hat, whatever it might be. And then we call that in to the um non-emergency number. A deputy calls back, and then I struggle with that deputy trying to get an email because they want us to read those GPS points off on the phone. They're 17 digits long. Errors have happened so many times. Ideally, I get an email, I send that to them. That's done for us. That's how it should be. Well, maybe that's not even how it should be. I would love at that point. This is what they do in Arizona is that I get an email back that says, Abby, I got your email. And the next day I got it, I get another email back from the same person that says, Abby, here, because it's usually it's multiple sites. Um here are the four sites that you reported. Here's the case number, and here's the person that went and collected them.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

So you're getting, yeah, so you're getting a response in Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yes. And here we're not. Nothing here. And then after that period when they weren't collecting, so we had six sites they didn't go out to collect. That means that the next month when we go out, we have to go back to the site to see if they've collected it. And after that two month period, they were better at it of collecting. So I would, but we still have to go out and check. And then there's the sad fact that many of these sites aren't fully processed, will go back and there'll still be bones remaining, ribs, femur, pelvis, jaw that they've left behind. I recognize that they get scattered, but they're the paid professionals. This is a crime scene. And they should do better than that. If I can go back and find those, they should be able to find those. And they leave identifying material, like clothing, a red shoe, a shirt with a sequined fox on the front. Don't you think that's an identifying thing for a family member? Yeah, my daughter had this shirt with a sequined red fox on the front. Why would you leave that in the desert? I don't understand. Is that that normalization? Like, eh, it's a migrant.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

And are there any particular moments or discoveries that have really stayed with you?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Oh, so many. I bet.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

I bet, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, so many. You know, that there's the heartbreaking ones, like we found um a jaw with braces on it with those little green rubber bands and hair extensions. And you just think, oh no, how old was she? Oh no, that that's those they'll stay with me. There's the you know, the the joyful ones when we'll find ID, you're like, oh, there's no guarantee that ID is from that person. They could have been switched in transit, they could be false ID, but still, it is so rare, and it is such a wonderful feeling to find ID. We find love notes, you know, those are both heartbreaking and a little bit happy. Like somebody loved you and you carried this in your wallet and you had it with you, but then you think, why is it here in the desert? So those mixed feelings come up a lot. And then also, I mentioned this before: there's this feeling of a rescue. I'm gonna be part of this group that's not gonna let you just that death. This is what a Jesuit priest said to us. We're doing this so that death won't have the last word. And when I find uh remains and I feel like they're gonna be recovered, it's a rescue from this cavalier feeling of oh, they they're migrants, they died, they should have known better. No, they're humans, they left these situations.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

We're gonna help them, not a sense of a sense of closure, it sounds like, in a in some way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if the right people were listening right now, decision makers, investigators, and what would you want them to start doing differently starting tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

An easy one would be for the the county sheriff's office, the way we report these, Dona Anna, Hidalgo, Luna, etc., for them to create a system where they respond to these emails we or give us a dedicated email. That's what I have in Arizona. Give me a dedicated email. I will always send these reports and then follow up with me. Tell me that you got it, tell me that you collected the remains. That would be an easy thing right off the bat. A bigger step back picture would be please treat these scenes as crime scenes until that's what it says by law. An unaccompanied death will be treated as a crime scene until proven otherwise. Please prove this otherwise. Don't just keep checking that exposure box. Have you done a sexual assault analysis of these bodies? Please do that and report that because that's going to help look at why so many women, why so many women are dying here? So maybe that kind of I'd like that as a as a step back, an analysis of 130 deaths in a five by 10 mile area. Why look at that?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

And then, you know, all the way back for the US government. Look at the immigration system. Somebody finally have the nerve to do this. We know that both parties get elected on the immigration system. Somebody have the compassion for our neighbors to step back and look at this. It needs to be done. It's just not working. Those red dots will just break your heart when you see them.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Yeah. And so, how can everyday people support this issue in a meaningful way?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

There's a couple things. If we ever hear somebody say they should come across the legal way to challenge that, ask them what the legal way is, explain to them that there is no legal way, talk about how it takes years and years and years and years to come across a legal way. And your daughter is being raped by a gang, you're gonna wait. Find challenge that. Try not to blame the victim. If you hear somebody blaming the victim, challenge that. Don't let it go as a fact. There's always what we're trying to get people to do is to call Gabe Vasquez, our state representative, down for this area, senators, the governor's office, anybody to say, hey, we have all these female deaths, deaths in general, but female deaths in the area. Why aren't we investigating this? Why do they not matter? Please investigate this.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah, and you know, we are second, I believe, in the nation for violence against women, and then I think want to say third, something around that, um, for men murdering women. So we we we have an incredibly hostile state as far as women go in terms of abuse, trafficking, sexual assault, murder. We have a big problem just in general. This this even you know, this just magnifies that in my mind, solidifies that even more, sadly.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Without an investigation, without even collecting these remains, how do we know that they aren't women from Albuquerque?

unknown 28:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

El Paso, Las Cruces, Centre. A dumping ground.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

A dumping ground. We don't know that. And maybe that that's in line with those statistics you just said about New Mexico.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah. At the beginning, I I mentioned that you were the author of a couple of books. Uh Tortilla Star, Dora, daughter of unforgiving terrain. Can you tell us a little bit about what that book is about?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, so Tortilla Star is a fiction book and it's a volunteer ESL teacher who gets involved with her students and changes their life. So that's what that one is. And I tried to create a story that would draw people in who might not normally read a book about immigration, but do it through the emotional medium of storytelling. And then Dora is a memoir that I wrote with my friend Dora Rodriguez. It's about her life. She came across as an undocumented immigrant from El Salvador in 1980. And her group of 26, when they crossed, 13 of them died in Organ Pipe National Monument in Arizona, one of the largest mass casualties. She survived that. Um, and she became this amazing humanitarian. She's very well known in Arizona and beaks all around the country. I see.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

So there are two different books. I think I had it grouped as one. I see.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah. Okay. And then the third one is the one that I've written now, and I'm still working to get that published. That's about the the battalion search and rescue in our work. Nice. Where can people find those? If they want to shop through Amazon, they can get them there, but they can also get them at through their local bookstores.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Oh, nice. Okay. Great. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for doing this and for tackling this. It's it's just heartbreaking. New Mexico needs to do better in so many ways in terms of the violence against women, but I appreciate greatly what you're doing for people. And I can't even imagine you must have spent hours and hours in that desert just combing through there, you and so many others. So thank you for the work you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I wish I didn't have to do the work, but I'm glad that I have the capabilities, emotional and physical, to do this work because it's really important. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Thank you. And I'll include in the um description of this. I'll put the link to your Instagram, social media. That way people can kind of stay involved and follow along.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

That's great with what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Thank you so much for including me. Yes, thank you, Abby. Take care.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

No Chief Fights.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

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