Q&A with my daughter - Get to Know Patty

In this episode, it gets personal. Larry takes the reins and brings 10 questions to Patty for an old-fashioned Q&A. An insight “into the Patty.” 

Then we head into our one-day-sponsored-by Ground News segment, where we dig into a few topics dominating the headlines (at the time). As always, we’ve got opinions. 

Between the Steins is a father-daughter podcast; real talk across the ocean and the aisle. 

Find us on all social media platforms @betweenthesteins. Drop us an email at betweenthesteins@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you!

Transcript

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Welcome back to another episode of Between the Signs. We're so happy that you're here. This is episode four. We call this a palate cleanser. What are we talking about today? Well, the idea was to figure out if you were going to ask 10 questions of someone and asking them about their life, their experiences, their favorite athletes, their favorite times as a child, and it gives you kind of an insight into the patty. That's her. QA sesh. We just figured, you know, why fight? Why fight? And then and then we and then we got into a little bit about the the terrible situation in Arizona with uh Savannah Guthrie's mother and and questions about the way the media was covering that, and then also about the future of uh the First Amendment. There could be some changes because of what's happened in Minnesota with some disruption of some uh uh religious ceremonies there. So the fascinating things to watch, and some of the comments from both sides on on what we think. Between what's the name of our podcast? There it is. Between the stines. Awesome news. All right. Well, uh, enjoy the enjoy the episode, everyone. See you later. Ah hello and just like that. Good evening and good morning. Good night and good eve. How the heck are you? You know, I was sitting around yesterday and it was almost 80 degrees, and I went to our international basketball championship Oklahoma City Thunder game, and we lost. But it was a beautiful evening, the place was packed, it was it was a huge event. And I thought I was thinking, you know, people think about professional sporting events, it's really a networking event. I mean, I saw a lot of friends and a lot of people that I wouldn't rare, I would rarely see in the in in one particular and it was terrific, terrific. And and and and then the previous day, I think it was 83 degrees, and today it's gonna get up into the high 70s. So if you're sitting around in a chilly place and you're looking at this in the middle of February, it's almost Valentine's Day, or as my friends say Valentine's Valentine's Day. Yeah, so it's almost Valentine's tomorrow, and as we speak, and it is gonna be a gorgeous day in Oklahoma, and these are the kinds of days we have a lot of in the middle of winter, and then you know, we'll have we'll have storms, we'll have snow, ice, things like that, but it clears up almost immediately, and then we have a a streak of fabulous weather that has just been awesome. So okay. Well, it has it has rained every single day of 2026 in the United Kingdom, and I'm tired of this, grandpa. I can't do it. Get me out of this garbage island. I I can't do it, I can't do it anymore. The seasonal depression is wild. Yeah, it's wild. I can't do it. Uh oh well. It's fine, it's whatever. It there's like one little leak in my so I have these like beautiful velux windows, right? And because I'm in the roof, and there's like one little leak in them. And every time I come over to my desk to work in the morning, there's just one little drop of water that is sitting on my desk waiting for me. Are those windows like in Mary Poppin's? Mm-hmm. Right. Whoa. That was good. I haven't heard you British accent in a while. Right. Well, he was seven years old, he was. He was the oldest chimney sweep. He's lived that long. Seven years. Seven years, seven years. He's the oldest chimney sweep we had, eh? Lord. What a life. Um, well, yes, so we're coming off the back of a political episode, and I'm not gonna talk to you about I mean, I asked you about Pam Bonnie before we got on. I know, but we will save that for the good, right? Right. We'll save that for this is this is a sorbet episode. This is a sorbet episode. Let's cleanse that palate, you know. No wasabi quite yet. Let's just let's ginger it up. Uh-huh. Um, and you have just been dying to ask me questions. Uh, you know, so I thought, you know, let's get let's give you that opportunity. Okay. Finally. Um, yeah, we'll we'll see how it works. Yeah, I'm ready. You ready? Let me set your timer real quick. Hold on. Okay. Oh, too much time. Too much. Okay, go for it. Okay. So uh the the first question is growing up, where did you grow up? And what was your favorite childhood memory? Oof. I grew up in Edmund, Oklahoma. Uh, the the greatest state in the world. Right. One of the top 10 cities in the United States. In what? In in where to live. Okay, okay, yeah, definitely. Um I yeah, grew up in, grew up in Edmund, Oklahoma, born to a family of of four existing people. Uh the third child. Uh, apparently told that I was wanted uh by my parents, told I was an accident by my siblings. That is exactly what happened to me. That I was told, I was told that they found me in a garbage can. Do you know how that feels? Tell me. I think I got over it like two years ago. Gotcha, gotcha. But it's fine. Um uh that's just that's the beauty of that's that's not true, by the way. It's also not true. They that they were just doing that because they could play you and get you get you to do it, try to ingratiate them. Yeah, I was I was deeply afraid and wanted their approval. Um, but here we are. Uh yeah, so that was the question. Um I think see, I didn't even, I just glanced at these, so this is this is great. It's something we've talked about before, but it's usually around food. I think childhood memory feels like music blasting through the house, you know, you out doing yard work, mom doing house stuff, uh preparing for people to be coming over on a Sunday afternoon to eat a bunch of food. Probably like when when my sister was first married, we were all spending a lot of time together. Um I think those are probably some of the best ones because it just felt like there were never enough people in the house. It was always like there was always more space, always more room, and loads of food. You cooking quite a bit, and yeah, before everything was ruined. I'm just kidding. Gotcha. Got them. No, it's I think it's it's oh, it's like these things exist in the same universe, and I'm I'm grateful for it. So yeah, it's good stuff. Okay, so what did you want to be when you grew up? Oh, uh well, I wanted what everybody else wanted, which was to be a marine biologist, which didn't work out. Um why marine biologists? I don't know. I really like because you watched because you watched your castle. I don't know who that is, but uh yeah, I I yeah, I I just really liked water and I liked the idea of animals and animals in water. Uh-huh. But then turns out that's kind of a little bit of like a phase that every person goes through. Really? Yeah, I guess we know when I was when I was growing up, I want to be an astronaut. No, no, jet pilot. Wait, no, uh uh army man, uh no frog man. That's what I want to. No, really what I want to be. I want to be a car race, uh race, race car driver. And then oh no, motorcycle, not at yeah, you can what do you want to be when you grow up? Rolling, I don't know. I haven't done that yet, so oh haven't grown up. It's a trap. Good for you, yeah. You know, this is a big birthday this year for you. I was thinking about it earlier. I know. Okay, what are you moving on? Next one, next one. What are you most passionate about professionally? Oh, uh I'm very passionate about what I do, which is okay, so um, as I got into further into college, I really wanted to go to medical school. That was kind of the goal and the dream. So I studied biochemistry and realized I was gonna have to work five times as hard to get this because it just was not working. And I worked really hard at it and um and then decided later into my college career that I wanted to shift and I wanted to do kind of a double major thing because I had so many credits for biochemistry that it was crazy for me to put it down. But then I was so passionate about this nonprofit piece, this nonprofit management course. And I was like, God, I'm really good at this. I want to do this. Yeah. And it wasn't until my last job uh where I was working for a medical research charity that I realized I was literally doing what I wanted to do. Like I was literally doing both sides of my major and I loved it. I loved the application of science with the application of telling stories and fundraising and getting people to get involved in charities that they care about. And so I'm really passionate about making those kinds of things palatable to people, taking really complex research and helping people see the impact that they're having on people's lives, whether that's in Parkinson's research and cystic fibrosis research and women's health generally. Uh yeah, I'm passionate about that. Okay. As your career's developed, what has your definition of success changed? No. This is interesting. I learned this or I figured this out from the way that I was raised. I I think it took me until probably an embarrassingly late time in my life. One, to realize that Santa wasn't real. And two, um Santa is real. Okay, and two, to I mean, I still kind of believe it. And two, to realize that people go to college to get a degree that will get them a job. Uh-huh. I was under the impression for the longest time that people went to college because they wanted to study something they were passionate about. Because I saw you doing your job, which was what you studied. And I was like, oh, he just went to college because it was it, he loved learning about that. And then I saw mom doing what she loved to do, which is what she studied in college. And I was like, perfect. I this is just this is what people do. And then I realized, oh, wait a minute. People study stuff that they don't care about at all because it's going to get them a job, which is going to get them money. So and and maybe when they get the money from a job that they really don't want to do, they become successful, but it's completely antithetical to what they want to do for the rest of their lives. And I exactly. Because they spend their whole and they spend their whole life chasing this goal, which is something they really don't care that much about, but it's enough to make money. And then they get caught in that heroin addiction of money in a job that doesn't give them any satisfaction sometimes. And I'm I am also aware how very privileged I am to have been able to study something not only that I loved, but that I was good at. And then to be able to move the way I did, to be able to find a job that is doing exactly what I studied and exactly what I love to do. Like I feel so lucky every single day that I get to do what I do because I I I never feel like I'm not doing good in the world. And I never feel could you be a little bit more positive? Like, I always feel like I'm doing things that make people better and also improve other people's lives. So I'm not not doing never not doing now. Let's be a little bit more positive. Just thinking a little more positive. Thank you. How many chairs are behind you right now? Uh there's eight or ten or twelve. Well, perfect. Um 35 chairs, but other than that, there's 20. Okay, 42. 40, 42, 42 chairs in the room, 42 chairs, surplus one, pass it around. 41 chairs in the room right now. Yeah, there's a song about it, but uh perfect. Um, anyway, next question, next question, next question What is the perfect day for you What is the perfect day for you? Okay, it is I mean it's it's okay. Let's go to the next one. It's annoying. No, it's annoying. Pass, pass, pass, all days. I it's like okay, it's waking up early, which I hate. Uh it's a perfect day. I have the best. So annoyed. I, you know, they were right. Waking up early makes your day better. I I wake up early, I go to the I go to the gym. Yep, I hang out. Well, in this country, it's being here, hanging out with my housemates, my my best friends, maybe going to a little bit of a show or a boogie, midday-ish. It's sunny outside, I'm not wearing too many clothes. Then we come home, we have a huge barbecue in the backyard, we listen to a lot of music, and and we we cook food together and then watch a movie. It's pretty simple. It's yeah, yeah. But it always includes food, it always includes music, and it always includes like nice weather and just the people that I love. Yeah. In Oklahoma, it looks a little different. In Oklahoma, it's like driving around with the windows down like 75 degree weather. Don't know what that is in Celsius. Um just seeing people hanging out. Yeah. It's it's simple. It's simple. Okay. Here's next one. What's the some of the best advice you've ever had in your life. This is just the first one that came to my mind, but um that there's no such thing as right person wrong time. I think a lot of my life is unlearning this idea that my life is gonna start for real when I find somebody to settle down with or to get married to or to have kids with or whatever. Um and I think I've met a lot of people and dated people and thought like, oh, well, maybe they were the right person, but it was just the wrong time. And I think the more I'm the more I'm dating and like growing older and learning more about myself, the more I'm realizing that they were the right person for that time. And that's it, and that's okay. And that I'm the right person for every time of my life, and that that's really the most important thing is that I'm building a life that I love no matter what, with no finish lines, no expectations, just loving the life that I've that I've got. What's what's number one on your bucket list? Number one on my bucket list. Lately, the idea of doing the Camino Really walking the Camino in Spain, correct? Correct. It will spans across France and Spain, and yeah. I did you see the movie with Martin Sheen? I didn't, but I know if I watch it, I'm gonna do it 100%. But yeah, I I love walking. How long does it take? Depends. There's different versions you could do. The full I don't know if I'd do the full one because that's like a few, I think that's a few like six weeks. Oh man, or a few months. I don't know. I should probably know more about this than I am, but um, they're shorter versions, and uh it's been a it's been an idea for a minute, and I think maybe it'll be something I dive into in 2027. That's interesting. Interesting, hold me accountable, okay or join me. Ooh, ah, there are many sports heroes. We'll talk about that anyway. There are there are lots of sports heroes, a lot of Oklahoma sports heroes, Mickey Mannell, Jim Thorpe, International Olympic champion, best world's best athlete. You got uh a whole lot of international sports heroes that are soccer, football, gymnastics, all of these people. Do you have any sports heroes? Do you did you have any sports heroes when you were growing up? Um, I mean Josh Heipel. Boomer! Sooner. Um yeah, oh no, oh no, yeah. Sorry, just can you hear me? We haven't had another national championship since, but the Sooners are always number one right now, heading into the next season. We tried, got into the number one in our hearts, always. Yeah, so then Josh Heipel, anybody, anybody else? Any others? I mean, probably like um Misty Mae Turner, uh the you know, one of the volleyball players, because I played a lot of volleyball. I loved volleyball players. Um, but yeah, Misty Mae Trainer and Carrie Walsh, those two who were the the Olympic gold beach volleyball players for the US. And yeah, I'd I'd watch we'd watch the girls at UCO play, we'd watch the girls at at high school levels play. Those girls were those were my those who are who I wanted to be for sure. Yeah. Okay. How would you like to be remembered? Oh, very carefully and a lot. Uh-huh. Um you know, I think I like the idea of being known as somebody that gave people permission to be who they were, made a lot of space for people to feel comfortable being loud and and being themselves. And I'd like to be known as somebody who just kind of took chances, took risks, took a stab at stuff, and just tried and and made a made a life that served others and and made made myself proud, you know? I think it's all we can really hope for, isn't it? Okay, I've asked you nine questions. What question would you have liked me to ask as the 10? Uh would have loved for you to say, hey Patty, first of all, how much money would you like me to send you just for fun? Uh and then also when should I come to England so that I can do the Camino with you? 70th birthday present to myself? Sure. You can you could do that. By the way, you know that this year is an election year. So it is. I forgot you can't travel in election year. Well, it's hard, it's very difficult. And yeah, you know, it it's one of those things where then with the statute of limitations on some of those crimes, I don't know if I can get back if they if they issue a warrant. I mean, the uh, you know, with uh NATO and other things, the international things. I think they've got Fish to fry, if I'm honest. I think we're okay. Um, you know, think of if you know, if the pod ends up being an exciting thing, we could do an in-person episode, right? Hey, what an idea. What an idea be a business write-off, too, wouldn't it? That's what I'm saying. We could have a live audience, we could do a QA. It could be great. That'd be great. It'd be great. Okay, that's all I've that are all the questions I have. And and you know, these are based on a uh a questionnaire that I received recently from a from a local newspaper. They've asked me to to do the same thing, and I'm I'm preparing my answers very, very carefully. And I appreciate you extemporaneously answering questions that you had not really seen or been advised about. This is correct. I yeah, we came in blind today. We both have had crazy weeks, and I wasn't very organized, but you know what? Neither were you. So there we go. There we go. And we have 11 minutes to spare. Wow. How many minutes? 11. Awesome. This might just be a little, a little fun bonus episode. Well, you know, we're we're sitting, we're you know, for you, uh, because you're not here, you we're we're we're gonna be celebrating on Monday, President's Day. And uh it's sad that we don't celebrate the individual presidents of Washington and Lincoln separately, but we throw them all together, all 47 of them, and say, Hey, hey, thanks for being president. Uh, you know, all the all the good ones, all the ones that we don't remember their names, and and all in one big bucket. So it's uh it's gonna be and the weather should be really pretty nice. Pretty nice. You get the day off, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, it's it's a federal holiday, so there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna be out. Who is your uh favorite president that is not living? Who's your favorite president that is not uh like one of the heavy hitters that I wouldn't assume is one of your favorites? Uh you know, there's gosh, I mean those are the those are the any Democrats? Uh I did like Harry Truman. Ooh. FDR too. So it got a little wild at the end, but uh, you know, don't they all and and and TR Teddy Roosevelt, the other Roosevelt, he was a very, you know, very nice, very pragmatic, a leader, a very strong leader. Of course, I grew up, I mean, the there's so many stories about George Washington, and what an amazing guy who set the standard for a republic. I mean, that's that's the best part about him. And Thomas Jefferson, I I really like him. I've become to like John Adams a lot more over time. You know, he's one of those that got lost. And then and then there's this span, and I gotta tell you, Tyler, President Tyler, he was you know very big in in the military and was part of the Mexican War. And and then, but when you start talking about the big, the heavy headers, Washington, Lincoln. I mean, the Lincoln is just I used to draw pictures of Lincoln when I was obviously, yeah. He was just but he was just an amazing the the the words of Lincoln, the communication skills and and the history of everything, and then all of the the similarity. Of course, everybody, everybody loved uh a lot of folks just grew up in the in the last century with with the impact of FDR, and that even extended into Lyndon Johnson and John Kennedy and you know Richard Nixon, the things that he did to normalize relations with China. I mean though those were those were helping solve world problems. And you know, and you know Jimmy Carter, kind of sorbet that uh, and then you know, the the and then and then Ronald Reagan, of course. Uh there's so many great presidents, and and I wish we could honor all of them individually instead of just throwing them all into a big bucket and turning and mixing them around saying, Hey, who was that guy? I don't know. He looks familiar. 47 days off throughout the year sounds like a dream, and I think we should start pushing for it. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Great idea. We can maybe put and put them onto a uh well, you don't have to have a day off. I mean, you could make a designate a designated Saturday near their birthday and and have celebrations for your favorite ones, but you know, the people get lost. Yeah, politics. Who cares about who was president? Yeah, well, a lot of people do, and and they're good presidents all all over the place. And it was fun, it was fun growing up learning all about the different presidents. I remember in in school, they used to have there were about five presidents back then, and we had a picture on a calendar of every one of the five. No, it was it was really great. There was a beautiful calendar every year, and they'd have all of the presidents all around this wonderful calendar, and it was great to be able to realize that part of history because so many people just think, okay, I got born on this day. That's when history starts. No, no, it doesn't. It's a it's an amazing tapestry of leaders, some good, some bad, but all of them were elected by the people of this country and in a great one of the greatest republics in history, and it continues to be an amazing achievement that we're still around and leading around the world, which is important and a beacon of history, a beacon of hope. Right. Yes. I was gonna make fun of, I think I was gonna say, oh, yay, FDR, let's do more of those social programs, yay, let's put more money new deal, let's do it again. No, I think we we learned our lesson on some of those. And and and I just I just I just watched I just watched uh the movie with uh Woody Harrelson. It's on Prime, I think it's on Prime or Netflix. I think it's Netflix, and it's he portrays LBJ, and that's the movie, and it it's a very interesting thing. Being a political leader like he was in these in the United States Senate as the Senate majority leader, the it's a lot of graphic graphic stuff and and coarse language, but that's the way he was. Uh yeah, LBJ, uh I don't know if I would have liked being in a room with him as a woman. You you probably are right. Of course, that was the that when he was in a room with a woman, that was a different standard. You know, when he was in with guys, it was just okay, we're getting something done. If you if you're offended by coarse language or me using different terms, you might want to leave the room. Oh, wait a minute. If you're gonna leave the room, you don't work for me. Sounds a lot like somebody else I know. It was it was inside, it was inside the inside the office and the the words and everything. It it was very he was I've read his book, Path to Power, the book about him by Caro, Path to Power, which was a fascinating biography of LBJ. And that, you know, the last line, another uh Churchill book, the The Life of Churchill. Those those are wonderful political leaders. And and it's interesting because Churchill's involvement with FDR was an amazing combination of incredible leaders, and they were both really great communicators as well. It's interesting. Churchill's uh, I don't know if I've told you this, his uh family home is Balmarble uh Chartwell, uh, which is just south of England. I think it's uh about or south, excuse me, south of London, uh, by a bit. And they're not reopened yet because it is like a it's a historic site that you can go and visit. Right. And then but it's been on my list for a long time. I'm gonna do a a walk where I go from Heaver Castle, which is the family home of um of Anne Boleyn. Uh Anne Boleyn and then do uh a walk all the way up to Chartwell, which is the family home of Winston Churchill, obviously. Um just a very cool little pocket of the country that has so much history in it, and it's just very, very cool. I I have I have some things of Churchill. I have a Churchill 18-inch doll that I have in my office. I have the the cards that you sent me from the bunker. I have I have a it it was made in Bolivia, I believe it was made in Bolivia, and it is a Churchill Christmas ornament that's about six inches tall with a cigar, and he's got his fingers in the victory position. And uh those are kinds of things that I have that uh that I I admire Churchill extremely. He's a great guy, great, you know, there's a lot of warts, but you you these people you use the warts and all, and that's you know you know. I will yeah, there's hold on, I was gonna say because when I went to the bunker, I bought like loads of of those so that I could just send you some randomly. I've got one I haven't sent you yet. I was gonna show it to you. Um well, the the ones that you've sent me are on display. So this one better potluck with Churchill today than humble puppet. That's great. Don't waste food. It's there's some really cool like that. Yeah, that's why that's why I'm part of the clean. Yeah, that's why I'm part of the clean plate club, too. Yeah. Oh, because you're fighting Hitler. Yeah. Exactly. Clean your plate for fat and fascism. We're if we're if we're we're we're gonna kill fascism by cleaning our plate. I sure hope so. Me too. We gotta talk about our definitions of fascism soon. Everything's fine. The world's the world is falling apart and I'm concerned. But we're gonna be fine. Don't be. It'll be it'll be fine. Are you not? Are you are you hopeful? I am very hopeful. Why? Because I'm an optimistic person and I love life, and that's why I'm hopeful and optimistic. You're hopeful about the country right now? Yes, I am. Okay. Always. That's good. Okay. You know what I heard the other day is somebody said, you know, it can feel very overwhelming when there's a lot of darkness being shown. You know, some of the worst things that people can do coming to light. But when darkness is being shown, it means that the light is happening, like the light is making progress and that the light is showing where that darkness was, and that it's required in order for justice to happen and for people to be held accountable. I think that's something I'm trying to hold on to, is like this hope that the light is showing things that need to be shown. Yeah. Why are you laughing? You just need to watch a different news channel. Do I? I mean, objectively speaking, regardless of which news channel you're watching, like there is there are very bad things happening in the world, regardless. So yeah. I mean, I mean, what what's going on in Nigeria? I mean, that's that's horrible. Horrible things. And and what's happening in Iran, it's it's terrible that I I've got friends that are reporting to me that more than 30,000 people have been murdered in Iran. I I as a as a country that loves freedom and supports religious freedom, you're you're seeing what happens over there in a in a known terrorist state, and it's just tragic to see that that happened to fellow humans, fellow citizens of the world. It really is tragic. I think it's also hard for me to see things like that happening with the context of the history of the relationship between America and places like the UK and areas of the world like that. And um it yeah. It's it's the it's the try trying to let those people know that there's there should be hope. It must be difficult for them and terrible for them to have to suffer through those consequences now. And I I pray for them every day. And I pray for for all of those people who are being persecuted to be to be free or to have to have a better system to be able to create a better life. We'll get there. Yes, we will. We will talk about it in a way that's actually meaningful on a non-sorbe episode. Um that's that's our time. Goodbye. Um one takeaway from today's episode for you. Oh, getting to learn more about what you're doing and and how important it is to you and and how you got there. Everybody takes a often takes a circuitous path to where they are now. And and and I it's it's great to realize that that you are realizing that everything you do and everything you've done has brought you to where you are. And those things are extremely important to be able to have a happy life. And and that's that's the best part. Yeah, you saying like how it's like this to get to your career and to get what you're good at and to get what you care about. But then in hindsight, when you look back on it, you say it looks so clear. Yeah, yeah. Well, it just like for me, it's like, oh, well, of course, like it just looks so straight to me now that I'm looking back at it. But when you're in it, it's like you know, there could be setbacks, and I and I'm and I'm I've been becoming more and more involved in in the Bible and reading and things like that. And and I really I was at a salt and light dinner, and I I don't know if I've talked to you about this, but there was a gentleman there who I know, and and he is he was bringing up his experience with prostate cancer, and he was bringing he was reading at the time Thessalonians, which talks about be thankful. And it's always easy to be thankful for what you have, but then it says the rest of the story is be thankful for all third things, all circumstances. And he was trying to figure out why. I I I I'm thankful for things, but I'm I'm supposed to be thankful for the prostate cancer, and it was an amazing change of what happened in his life when his family saw all of the people that were loving him and supporting him, and it changed their lives because they saw him with all of these amazing friends that supported the his his recovery. And it and it was a transformational event, and he's become more and more thankful for all things. I will send you uh a clip, uh Anderson Cooper talking to Stephen Colbert about grief. Anderson Cooper, as you know, has experienced a lot of grief in his life. I think he lost his dad really tragically, and then Stephen Colbert lost his members of multiple members of his family really tragically. And Stephen Colbert says something along the lines of what is what is suffering, if not a gift from God, or something like that. And Anderson Cooper says, surely you don't believe that. And they have a really, I think I listened to that interview a few times a year. Uh because just because these two men are just very, I love the way that they speak about grief. And it's very cool to see men, particularly being very vulnerable about what it means to lose and just what it means to be a man and a and a person. And like, yeah, I'll send that to you. It's I'll link it in this description as well. It's very, very good. And being a Christian and and understanding that is when you're looking at your career and you're looking at your whole life, you at least you can you can you can rationalize those things, you can see those things, but so much of what we believe in our faith we won't have revealed to us until later. But we all look towards the future, and that's part of the reason why I guess I'm so optimistic. I I look forward to every day and I look forward to all things, and I'm thankful for all things. You're getting into your Christian era. Look at you. I've been here for a long time, baby. Oh, yeah. Hey, good for you. Um okay, shall we do our little our little ground news segment and just be really we'll be very just chill about it. Um so this is the one where we both Google or we both look at our algorithms wherever we would go for our news. We look at the same topic and then we read aloud and we include also the the visuals uh in in the podcast, and we just see how you how your quote unquote your side is trying to feed you the information. How one side and then how one side and another side, and then we work together to find what is the better headline between us for the facts. So one day sponsored by ground news. Ooh call me. Okay, uh, what topic of the past few weeks would you like to do? And again, we're not gonna debate it. It's just gonna be about the headline. Yeah, well, um I think the one that's really dominated the cultural news has been the story about uh the Guthrie case of Savannah Guthrie's mother's disappearance. It and it seems that the the news coverage has been it's not your typical story because the news that is covered by the news channels is also covered by an entertainment channel of TMZ. And and there it's it's a mishmash of a and this is very disturbing for people in journalism when you have the guy who runs TMZ being the news source for news coverage, yeah, and he's receiving things, and and if you're if you're supposed to be a reporter, and this is part of the thing, when he's talking to the media, he's taking he has access to information, and then the media interviews him and he says, There's information that I can't share with you. Well, that's not what a if you're gonna keep information from me, then you're not reporting. And if you're you if you're data and you're providing and you're not if you're providing it to the to the authorities and you've got information and you're not giving out, are you hindering or are you helping the investigation that could save a woman's life? And that that's what I think is very interesting about this mishmash. I think TMZ is such a weird piece of that puzzle. I think TMZ kind of functions in this weird way where they get respected as a journalistic place, but then they're a pop culture office. So it's like entertainment, the the inquirer, national inquiry of television. But I gotta tell you, National Inquirer was a was right on a lot of stuff. Well, and TMZ has been right about a lot of things pop culture wise. So it's it's hard, I think for consumers, it's hard to know. It's yeah, it's weird. And really, this is the same kind of discussion we had on the issue of what's opinion, what's news? And a lot of those things are on TMZ and and entertainment tonight and everything else. It's it's a it's a snapshot of pop culture that sometimes is news and sometimes it's not. And and trying to be able to tell the difference and why is this news? And you know it's a good idea. It feels to me, it feels to me a little like cyclists in this country. And let me tell you why. Okay. So cyclists want to be respected as vehicles in this country, they deserve all the same rights and all the same access to roads in this country as a vehicle does. I agree. But you have to follow all the same rules. So I can't have you as a cyclist running a red light because, well, there's nobody coming. If you want to be respected the same way, oh, this makes me so mad. I'm so pro-cyclists, but like for the love of Pete, if I can't if I can't trust that you're not going to run me over as an as a pedestrian when I'm crossing, I have to you, you, if you want to be respected like a vehicle, you have to act like one. That's how I feel about TNZ. If you want to be respected as a place for journalism integrity, for like trusted news. Then you don't get to also be sitting around taking selfie videos and platforming somebody like Kanye West, for example, saying horrendous things in your offices and treating that as news. That is platforming and that is a problem. Like that's not respectful. Like if CNN did that, people would throw CNN out. But then TMZ is like, oh no, but we're still. Yeah, we're different. We're different. We're not like you. It frustrates me. But then when we want to be like you, we are you. See, exactly. But but then when you criticize us for what we're doing that's not like you, that's different because we're different. We're we're pop culture. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's like what happened with Cobe, like the way they handled Kobe Bryant's death was I don't know how they're still allowed to exist. Like the way that that that news was treated, the disrespect that was put on his family for that. Like that's horrendous actions. And like that's so against any sort of journalistic integrity that exists. But anyway, um, okay, I well, do you feel like that's a topic that really do you feel like it'll be different headlines? I think no, because they the mainstream media is feeding off of what TMZ is getting, and there's almost this jealousy that they could be they could be ignoring it, but they're not because they want to have that stuff too. And maybe if they're friendly with TMZ and TMZ's ratings go up because they saw it on CNN or Fox or NBC or whatever, they'll say, well, maybe he'll share that stuff, and then we can say, CNN news has learned. Well, then we're in a loop. Exactly. And and and we can we can we can hint about what it says without revealing too much. So it looks like we're smart too. And and and we're and then we can take the story and we can make it more of our story instead of having to rely on another thing because any news director doesn't want to promote another news operation. That's why it must be very, very frustrating for ABC and CBS to have to cover a story involving another networks news person. They don't like that. They don't want to do that because it mentions the other stations, and then they're gonna say somebody's watching ABC and they say, gee, I I wonder what I wonder what NBC's saying about this. Poor Savannah. Let's watch. Well, and I think I think the the bottom line of it is that it's a horrifically sad story. Terrible. Yeah. You know, wherever you're getting your news, wherever I'm getting my news, they agree that this is just a heartbreaking situation. And I think what it's doing is just pulling back the curtain on how just because this is more of a pop culture issue or topic that it it's j it's like the Wild West. And it's you don't know who to trust and you don't know when. And I think that that is really concerning. I think that same thing is happening in in uh political issues, but in this case, like at least we can agree that it's just horrifically sad. And the the and and social media is contributing to the confusion and the inability of the professionals to do their work. Uh, and and if you if you open up a tip line and you get 10,000 people sending you tips about Mrs. Guthrie's whereabouts or a tent, then then you don't have any way of being able to do anything. And and and thankfully, maybe this is when you can come up with an artificial intelligence application that really works. Maybe the artificial intelligence can process all of these things, condense the 10,000 things to to possibilities that may work instead of having to have a real person look at all this stuff and follow up with every lead. But you know, it's just a tragedy. But you know, these kinds of things, when you're talking about entertainment and mixing it with news, what are some of the most famous and notorious things that have happened? The Lindbergh baby what dominated the news when it happened, the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby back in the 20s and 30s. I'm not sure exactly which decade it was, but that was a huge story. And then Frank Sinatra Jr. being kidnapped, another huge story. It and and you know, people may not remember the news from that week or that month, but they'll remember those types of things. So this is a signal type of event where they say, was that before Savannah Guthrie's mother was disappeared, or was it that's the kind of time frame that people remember, you know. What do they remember another another government shutdown? No, but they'll remember Savannah Guthrie's story. I mean, if I'm honest, I think there's probably some other stories going on that will probably stick in people's minds a bit harder. Well, perhaps, but but this is one of the biggies. This is a big one, and and I think it's also going to change the the attitude of networks and personalities because I don't think this is, I don't think there's ever been a threat that has been executed against a relative of a major news channel anchors family. So from the going forward, I'm sure there's network news people that are sitting around saying, okay, boss, I need some more money because I've got to have security for my family. You're paying me to be in the station. If I have to worry about my family being kidnapped or brutalized or whatever, I need some protection for that. So I'm gonna have, you know, Savannah's been off the air for what, a month, nearly a month? Close to a month. What is that gonna do to her contract? And and and please, please, please, NBC, please don't don't promote when when when this is all resolved, and we all hope that her mother comes back safe and sound. But when Savannah comes back, please don't don't start with some promotion about we've got a special 30-minute interview or an hour-long interview with Savannah. Oh, they will. Please don't do that. They will, you know, they absolutely will. But I hope they well speaking of speaking of, uh, why don't we do in the same vein of you know, uh presenters being threatened? What if we look up headlines for Don Lemon? Okay. Oh yeah, just to see. Yeah, next time. So I'm gonna search. Oh, I mean, we I feel like I feel like the headline bit maybe isn't the right thing for Savannah, but I think Don Lemon is more of a headline focused. Okay. So I'm just gonna search Don Lemon and just see what who should I go with today on my end. On one end, excuse me. Should I do The Guardian again? Yeah, sure. Washington Post? That'd be great. Okay, I I said two. I've got one. Okay, I have one. Okay, what is your uh source? My headline. Don it's a clip of Don uh Don Lemon. He says Don Lemon compares arrests to civil rights protesters. Perfect. Okay, what what's your source? It is a Fox News broadcast. Fox News got you. Mine is from The Guardian. I'm not sure if that's where it's from. I don't see any tag on it. Well then you need a new one. Let me see. It could be on X. It needs to be a reputable source. It is a reputable source. It is it is all his words in a 45-minute clip, 45-second clip. On what website? It is human rights campaign. That's what it says. It's from the human rights campaign. Human rights campaign. Yeah, it which is a news service another news service. Okay. Okay, so um perfect. Okay. Um so what's your what's your subheading? It that is it, is just that he compares himself to a civil rights civil rights uh protesters. So what he what he's saying is, and and the and the concern, I guess, is that when you're trying to compare what you did interrupting a religious service, you're actually violating the civil rights, the religious freedom of someone by going in and disrupting a religious news, uh, religious service. Okay, get me a Fox News article, not just like a video that then has a clip, like a quote underneath it. I need a Fox News article explaining what Don Lemon did. Because my my headline is with The Guardian is saying the arrest of Don Lemon is blatant. Well, this is an opinion piece. I'm going to switch to a different Who said that? Who said that? It's an opinion piece, it's marked as an opinion piece. The arrest of Don Lemon is blatant censorship, and he is not the only one. It is an opinion piece by Seth Stern. Um, but that is again, that's opinion. That is not that is not news. Um so maybe just search arrest Don Lemon arrests. Well, here it is. Here's the here's the the target. Don Lemon compares Minnesota church arrests to civil rights leaders fighting for our freedom. Fox News. And former CNN host Don Lemon spoke about the arrest for his participation in an anti-ICE protest inside a Minnesota church. And he says that he just compares himself to the same civil rights. Lemon spoke at the human rights campaign's 2026 Greater New York Dinner following his arrest and release for his alleged role in an anti-immigration enforcement protest at a Minnesota church. Alleged role, I think we've got the video, don't we? Anyway, hey, hey, you got to play by your own rules. Yeah, you gotta play by your own rules. We have video of alleged. I was gonna say, uh, we got to play by those same rules because you know we had a conversation around video evidence of something before, and I said, Is it alleged? I have video, and you see it differently from how I see it. So we we gotta play by those same rules when it comes to alleged. Sure. Um uh so um so yeah, well, the thing is okay, so um so my headline from the BBC is uh former CNN host Don Lemon charged in anti-ICE protest at Minnesota Church. Uh subheading is former CNN host Don Lemon has been arrested and charged after entering a Minnesota church and filming anti-immigration enforcement protesters as they disrupted a service. Yeah. Okay. So um so I guess what are some, what's kind of some of the rhetoric being used on Fox News that is maybe a bit more uh try trying to evoke some sort of responsibility. Well, I I I think that the there the legal experts that are on Fox News are looking at the laws that have been passed which prohibit someone from interrupting a religious service. That's not what I asked you. What are the words that are being used that are trying to make you upset? That's what I'm asking. No, I I but I guess that it really boils down to the trying to compare yourself to a civil rights, you're it's the dichotomy of what your civil rights are and your first amendment rights to have religious freedom and not have your religious services interrupted is your civil right. Saying that your interruption of someone's civil rights by entering a church and disrupting the religious meeting is not what a civil rights protester would do. You can you can protest outside all you want, but you're interrupting the First Amendment rights of someone else by disrupting a church service. Okay. There's that's the difference. So let me let me let me help. So I guess your you the one that you read is saying things like anti-ICE, right? It's talking about religious, a religious um service that was interrupted. Um it's talking about it's pulling his words that are very, those are very powerful words from him, saying that his he feels what what is the quote again? He feels like he is a a target, a target. Yeah. And and he was he feels I felt the weight of that truth in a very, very personal way. Can you imagine the state having control of your freedom simply because they don't like that you are doing your job? He's he's he's indicating that because he was acting as a journalist and was part of a watching people disrupt a service that he was not interrupting, although he talked to the people and also prevented some of the comments from those those disruptors and protesters from being aired. That's not in that, that's not in that that thing. We're just talking about what we're looking at. I understand. So, but you know, is is that the courts will decide, and and it will be a very interesting case to watch because you're talking about someone who is declaring that they were a journalist and they had every right to go in and be a part of the disruption of a religious service. Okay, and it's and I and then our favorite word. The sad part is that if if if this was happening in other parts of the country, which it probably wouldn't, I mean, the disruption of religious services has led to the deaths of many people in the in the country over the past year and a half. So when people start disrupting a religious service, you you don't know if these people are going to be firing guns or doing something that could be very hurtful to the people in that in that uh church. And in some instances, and I've seen the videos of people who have attempted to cause harm to people who have been killed because they were ready to destroy or to murder other people in a religious service. So this could have led to a terrible violent event. And I I will agree with you there. I think you know, we and I'm that's the that's the that's the most the most difficult part of this. I mean, when you're talking about the safety of a congregation, the the congregations where I live, they they take the protection of their flock very seriously. And if someone was going to come in and start interrupting, they would not ask any questions. And I don't know if a local DA would prosecute anyone for protecting the flock of a church with violent and deadly force. I hear you. And that's that's the problem with this whole thing. I mean Well, and I think hold on, hold on, hold on. I understand it could have. Um but at the same time, uh I think this is it. We we went by the same rules, so it is still an alleged obstructing of someone's First Amendment rights by force. That is alleged. Yep, and that's that's the journalistic video tapes will be used by the courts, I'm sure. I mean, that's that's the thing. Uh and and you know, the the the amount the abil availability of cameras and videos and everything else changes the legal system dramatically. And I and I I could not agree more. Even in even in in in a district court in the state's largest county in Oklahoma County, back in the U.S., there are people that will be on jury duty and they will be talking to themselves in a in a jury room after having all this information that's been presented to them, and they'll ask, is there a video of this incident? Do you have a video of this person robbing this store? And if they don't have a video, they will vote to acquit. Or they'll say, Where's the DNA evidence? Where's the fingerprints? And they they they think about what happens on CSI and they think that's real. And for the most part, it's not, but they think that it is because it's on TV. And if for me to vote for a guilty, I've got to have this information. The information doesn't exist, it's it's it's merely a TV show. But my concern around this, which I think like, you know, I think all cops should. I think body cams protect citizens, body cams protect cops. Um having video evidence in the world that we live in now. Where did my face go? I don't know. Where'd you go? Oh no. Did you disappear? I didn't have my my window plugged in. That's silly. Oh man, how'd you lose that? Well, because I'm doing video from my from my other phone. Hold on. I can bring my face here. This looks a little different. There you go. There you go. Um anyway, but um what this is the last thing, and then and then we can move on. Um, but I was just gonna say, you know, video evidence I think is very powerful. And it's the world that we live in now, which is a social media generation where everyone has their phones on them at all times. So when things are happening, the first thing people do is start recording. And I think that's really powerful and really important. Um, but even when we have video evidence of something, people will put a lens on their own eyes to see it the way that makes the most sense for their story or for their for their needs or for what they advocate for. And I think that's when I get worried because then we start fighting about what actually are because in the word of John Adams, facts are stubborn things. Uh and we've got to be really careful and honest about that. I think we have a responsibility that I'm I just it worries me. Yeah. Um, you know, it it there's there's the persnickety thing is that the First Amendment is not just about free speech and the freedom of the press. It's about freedom of religion as well. And to peaceably assemble, peaceably assemble. When you assemble in a church and disrupt the civil rights, the first amendment rights of people, that's gonna be the element. And that's so what if he is what if he is acquitted of this whole thing? What if what I'm not sure if that's the right phrase for the level of court that this is, but what if what if he's found not guilty? Then what? That's gonna be very interesting. I see why is that your response? I I I don't I I would think that the the religious community would find that very disturbing because now you're gonna open up your doors and you don't charge admission, you don't check someone's religion at the door, churches are open up to everyone. What would happen if someone doesn't like the position of the Catholic Church and decides we're just gonna go in and we're going to disrupt the service and we're gonna destroy the mass of the but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about Don Lemon. If he is found not guilty of these charges, then what? And and that, but that's that's what happened in Minnesota. The religious services were disrupted. So take Don Lemon out of it. He he was there as part of the disruption, and he alleged he says that he was a reporter. Well, no, he actually, when you see the videos outside, he was part of the organization before, and that was the video. That's not that's not what the courts you said. The courts will tell. So if the courts do say but they'll use the video, they'll use the video. Okay, and if they use the video and find that he is not guilty, will you take that as the final call on that? Or will you continue to see what you want to see in the video? Don Don Lemon's only one of the people that'll be charged. I mean, the other people that'll that are in there because it's a complicated. No, will you respect the the the call of of the courts? I didn't respect their ruling. I didn't say I wouldn't. You said it would be very interesting. The court, the court is gonna decide, not me. Yeah. Exactly. I have a opinion i would would anyone would it would a journalist do that i don't think a journalist would do that but it's about the law the law is the law right nobody's above the law and i think if if they find him not guilty of these charges then you have to you have to let that be the law right no the law is is different than finding someone responsible for violating the law the law still prevents people from going into any church service and and disrupting the church service so if if he's found to be be part of that disruption then that's that's one thing but and i you know and if he's not if you find 20 other people that were in there and they were charged with that and they're found guilty i how do you separate the two because he was outside with them i don't know if he is found we'll find out we'll find out well yeah we will and there are probably 20 other people in that in the room that were part of that of that effort and i i guess i care about religious freedom very much i you know i'm i'm getting that i'm gonna turn off this um and i which is fair and i i believe churches are a sanct sanctuary for religious freedom and sanctuary city and some no and when someone comes into a church they are supposed to respect the religious opportunity i mean yeah it for me the first amendment is is clear and and for the law involving the respectful respective religion that law is clear too this is a this is a a very it's a fluid confusing kind of thing and i i i hope the courts will settle it quickly i do too and i think you know the first amendment gives you protection to we know it's it's protection of your right of your free speech your freedom of religion your your freedom to assemble your freedom to protest but it does not agree to peaceably assemble that's fine okay peaceably but it does not it does not protect you from the implications of what you say it does not prepare like it does not protect you from the consequences of what you say and the consequences exactly I believe that thoroughly it it will be a it will be fascinating to watch it really will because you it will it will set a precedent one way or another it will that's very true I agree uh one way but there's a reason they put the first amendment the first amendment that's that's the key it's your favorite one it's mine right next to number two the number two is really important too right next to bear arms bears okay okay happy friday what's left of it happy friday i will um yeah let's let's call let's call it there i'll see you next week what a time i gotcha do our out do our outgoing jingle uh the the the outgoing jingle between the steins oh say can you see but the not no what's the what's the outgoing jingle i don't know i was just making it up in my head okay between the steins is a transatlantic podcast recorded between longland and the great state of Oklahoma it is hosted by Patty Stein and Larry Stein it is produced by Patty and Patty was produced by me our editor in chief is Brooks Sherman hi Brooks our designer is the incredibly talented Ben Azuga. 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