Ep.07 | Why You've Become Housemates (And What's Actually Going On Beneath That)

Is your relationship functional but flat?
Are you sharing a life but not really sharing each other?
In this episode, Aaron and Greer Christos unpack one of the most common dynamics they see in couples — the slow drift from lovers to housemates — and trace it back to what's actually driving it beneath the surface.

In this episode:

The housemate spectrum — from vanilla and safe, through co-management, all the way to conflict and resentment — and where you might recognise yourself

Why busyness and doing mode collapse the polarity between partners

The patriarchy and porn conversation — how conditioning shapes your sex life in ways you probably haven't examined

Why sex starts to feel like another thing to do — and what's underneath that

The neediness dynamic — what it feels like from both sides and why it pushes partners away

Resentment as sediment: how it builds quietly, why it matters, and why you can't desire someone you quietly resent

The difference between couples who've lost eroticism and couples who never really had it — and why that matters for the path forward

What "business class" and "first class" actually look like in a long-term relationship 
— and how to get there

Free resource: If this episode landed, your next step is our free video training — Start with Safety. 
It's the foundation everything else is built on. Find it at intimacyforcouples.com.au

Ready to go deeper? The Awakened Intimacy 8-week program is our signature couples coaching container. Find out more under the Services tab on our website.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Awakened Intimacy Podcast. We are your hosts.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I'm Aaron.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

And I'm Gria Kristas, and it's our absolute pleasure to be speaking with you today on a really important topic that affects literally all couples. So we're just on fresh off the back of a couples workshop that we ran last weekend. Tell us a little bit about that workshop, Ed.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

So we call our in-person workshops Connected, and this was volume two.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Oh well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

No, it was volume two. Third time we've run the Connected Workshop. We did this one on co-regulation. So it was showing couples, creating the space, giving them the practices and the understanding of the importance and how to co-regulate. Meaning teaching our bodies, reminding our bodies that we're safe with this person.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Yeah, and that link of safety and the sex is a big one.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah. And we've touched on safety a lot over the last few podcasts. And obviously, when it comes to sexual intimacy, it's incredibly important. In fact, it is the foundation, and we will address that to some degree in this podcast. However, we're not going to just be rehashing a lot of what we've gone over already. And if you haven't already, we've got the Start with Safety free training on our website. So remember that's there, go grab that. It is foundational. And obviously, when it comes to sexual intimacy, we need to feel safe with the person to open to them. So that's pretty obvious. However, there's a lot of other nuances and dimensions and complexities that lead to couples feeling like housemates rather than lovers.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Absolutely. And that dynamic of housemates rather than lovers is one of the core reasons why couples come to us, as well as a lack of connection, feeling understood, feeling on the same page, and a lack of sex, a lack of chemistry and wanting to work in that area. So we're going to start by exploring what it looks like to feel like housemates rather than lovers. And rather than naming it you're either housemates or your lovers, we want to talk about it as a spectrum because you can feel like housemates in different ways, and it looks different depending on what's happening within your relationship.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, and so on one end of the spectrum we've got the vanilla, which is very safe, uh, it's very functional, but the sexual intimacies becoming quite stagnant, quite stale, repetitive, bland. The land of bland. And if a couple is in that place, then that's actually a relatively easy fix because they've got the safety established. Okay, a lot of the groundwork has been laid, and then uh coming into the midpoint of the spectrum, we've got kind of the co-managers, where both individuals within the coupleship relationship are quite often in their masculine, meaning they are their mode of being is very doing oriented, it's very results-driven, it's it values achievement over connection, for instance.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Yeah, and it's constantly putting out fires as they might go out for a date or go and do something together, but they're talking about the kids, they're talking about work, they're talking about house, and then mate, let's go out for dinner so that we can organise the renovation rather than let's go out for dinner and have a really nice time together where we're actually going deeper into one another.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

And we did do a whole podcast just on that dynamic alone. You can go check that out. It's why staying busy gets in the way of intimacy. And then on the higher end of the spectrum, this is the most turbulent, like there is conflict, there is a high amount of turbulence, and for a couple, it makes complete sense that there's sexuality and sexual intimacy is eroding or has eroded because the safety piece is really taking a hit, and we're going to be going into that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Yeah, and if I was to give that a an ice cream flavour, it'd be the rocky road. Yeah. It's like chunks, they're they're not only co-um co-managing life, but it's like it feels chunky. It's like, okay, you do that, I'll do that, and there's not a sense of real synergy, and it can also look like resentment, frustration, a lot of unspoken things building up. And so we're gonna go going into that.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, exactly. And one of our primary teachers and uh mentors, Michaela Bowen, she shares that you know, for a couple they need a high degree of sameness, being on the same page, shared values, equality, um, some shared beliefs, uh, shared agreements to be functional. That's the foundations, and then you know, for long-term sustainability and longevity to keep things alive, we've got to create newness and novelty. But quite often couples will try create novelty and newness to try fix a sameness problem. And it's either only temporary temporary temporary temporary. It's either oh near tempo or uh it actually makes things worse, yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

So as we were preparing for this podcast and we were talking about those different uh aspects and uh degrees of housemates where we've got the vanilla and the rocky road, as we were describing it, I kind of I saw this plain analogy, and that if we look at the Rocky Road being the cargo, traveling in cargo, that middle ground is like a cheap economy, jet star international flight. You've got the vanilla, which is a premium economy, there's a bit of space, you're pretty comfortable, but you're still not in the business class. And where we want to uh guide you today is give you a sense of what it can look like when you're in business class, let alone when you get to first class. And as a bit of a drop of inspiration in that first class, a long-term monogamous relationship has such a uh when one is like really enriched and you're actually traveling in first class, there's such a set foundation of safety, and there's such a clear boundary around the the relationship, and that it actually becomes very expansive and and it makes it very free and safe to explore different aspects of one another. This is the land where different flavors, where different archetypes can come through in your love making, and you can be making love, and there's like this whole, you know, whether it's the dirty slut archetype, whether it's the shy version, whether it's the big daddy energy, which we'll speak about in the next podcast. But there's all this different flavor, and everything is welcomed, and that's where the excitement and um the newness comes in because we're continually going in deep and and making it safe for these new energies to come through.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, and emphasis on going in deep because yeah, we're gonna continue to rehash this idea and this concept that for couples to to grow and develop within this space, within this dimension of their relationship, it requires to stop relating from the surface level. It requires vulnerability, it requires depth, and quite often uh couples are either not knowing how to do that or they're simply unaware that that's what's missing.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah, yeah. So to you happy if I keep bringing it down. Yeah, so when we move into the business class, that's where we might start to look at understanding more about masculine and feminine energies, how polarity works, the actual chemistry of sex, and you know, so so many people have had their sex education from school education in primary school, and then porn, and that is such a limited uh worldview of what sex really can be. And so once you're in the business class, you're saying to oh wow, there's this whole thing that I just didn't know, and there's a whole new world. I know when I first embarked and I had the we embarked on the I was gonna say I had the joy of embarking on that with you. This whole other universe became available that I was so used to being in the the cargo, the economy, or the premium economy, I just never dreamt that I could actually travel business class. I didn't think that that was for me. Yeah, and yet, yeah. So when we look at the premium economy, what that can look like is again, it's that vanilla, there's some comfort, there's safety, but it most likely lacks a real depth of intimacy. So it might mean that you're having sex, but it doesn't necessarily really feel like making love, even though you love this person. Perhaps you're having sex, but it's at nighttime with the lights off, or if it's in daytime, you're not looking at one another in the eye. There's a lack of like real willingness to see and slow down and feel, and so that limits the amount of depth that you can have together as a couple. It also may mean that sex is something that, or it's a conversation that you know you need to kind of or you want to go deeper into, um, but it's not a big enough pain point and it feels a bit scary to talk about. So perhaps you speak about it when you're drunk or when you're on the substances, but then the next day just gets left, or perhaps one partner is wanting to lead that area and grow, but the other one's not quite ready, and so you just kind of push it away so as not to create the friction. And then if we bring it back into regular economy where that you're just co-managing, where you're addressing life, you might go and do something as a couple, maybe you even go on a family holiday, but again, the whole holidays is talking about home or having little moments of relaxation and not really going deeper. And again, this is where sex will often um really drop down in the priority. It's often where we get caught in that chicken and egg situation where the woman wants to feel deeply connected in order to have sex, the men want sex in order to feel connected, and so can come into this um crossroads or stalemate situation. No one's needs or deeper desires are being fulfilled. And to be honest, I think a lot of people really I don't know. I did, I had I was in that situation in a previous time in my life where I just dimmed down my desire, I made it less important, and I didn't really allow myself to feel it, or if I did feel it, I did it with myself behind closed doors with the kind of a shame thing happening and like hiding in secret. So there's a lot of secrecy, and not necessarily bad secrecy, but it's like it's really not a a space where people can express what they're really wanting for fear of not having that being met, and also for fear of hurting their partner's feelings.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah. Yeah, and so then you got the cargo area where yeah, there's turbulence, there's fights, it's scary, vulnerability is mocked or belittled or dismissed, uh emotions fly off the handle, there's just that dynamic of heightened emotion with severe withdrawal, and there's just no connection, no safety, and yeah, good luck having sex in that space.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Yeah, and if you do have sex, you might be drunk, or again you can have sex, and then afterwards there's a deep sense of disconnection, which is a really challenging space to be as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

That's super damaging, yeah. When there's a self-abandonment in it in the poll. And I have look, there's a lot of compassion here, there's no judgment, um, a lot of compassion. But just know that that self-abandonment, having sex just to tick something off or to make the other person happy comes at a huge cost.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

And to be honest, we've done that once or twice with one another. One of us has wanted sex, and the other one, it hasn't really been their truth, but we've kind of gone along with it and people pleased, yeah. We've people pleased, and we've wanted to meet that need, and we've both sensed it straight away afterwards, and it's from doing that. I think it was once to each other, and then realizing okay, we made that commitment not to do that.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was yeah, it was really hurtful, wasn't it? For both of us. It was, yeah, yeah. Great. So that's the spectrum, and hopefully you can identify yourself somewhere on that spectrum. And if you're on this journey with us, let's get to business and first class because we can tell you it's very juicy, it's very, very rewarding. It's very nice, very nourishing. Uh, and so I think it's really important that we we dive in and unpack you know what I mentioned earlier that happens kind of around the midpoint of that spectrum, with both people within the relationship stuck in that doing mode of being very busy, right? Busyness, taking care of work, family, kids. Look, this is the reality of life. There's no judgment, it's a reality that couples get stuck in, and there's a cost and a consequence, and we just want to explicitly name this that often there's seasons of life where this is required of us, and just because it's required of us doesn't mean that life's has to be this way or is always going to be this way. It's very easy to slip into a comfortable routine and pattern, and then that just becomes the norm, and things will just get swept under the carpet, need to be dismissed or diminished or minimized, and it comes with a cost.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Yeah, and I also want to say that remember that a season, if we look at nature, seasons last for three months, they don't last for a decade. So, yes, there is a reality of having young kids and it's intense for a good solid 10 years, right? But that doesn't mean that you need to put your sex life on hold for 10 years, and if you do, there's a very large chance that that could have very negative consequences. Not only can it have really bad long-term implications, but you miss out on so much that intimate relationship has to offer. Relationships are challenging, and if we're not getting the juiciness, yumminess from it, then that makes it uh really hard.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, and most importantly, and this is something we said in our co-regulation workshop on the weekend, is we want our relationship to build our capacity to deal with the challenges of life. And sexual intimacy, when done consciously and lovingly, can fill our cup. It can give us the juice, the vitality, the juju to handle the demands and to build our capacity to have the resilience to deal with the demands of life.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Absolutely, and that's where we're getting into the business first class, and again, at that opposite spectrum, sex feels like another thing to do. And I know as a woman, yeah, I'll just speak to as a woman that you know there's kids, and I know men have this too, have this too, but this is speaking from a woman in a woman's body. If I'm focusing on raising the kids, work, the house, you know, family, stuff going on my own thing, trying to stay healthy, trying to catch up with girlfriends every now and then. The last thing I want is to have a partner who feels needy and wanting something else of me. And that's where the and you can speak to what it is to have you know, feeling needy as a man, but it creates a dynamic of like, oh, there's someone else who I have to give to, who I have to put out to. And I remember a very distinct conversation I had with a woman, it was about 15 years ago now, and she'd been married for a long time. She said, Oh, well, yeah, he wanted sex, I ticked that off the list, and it was really this sense of like it's just something I have to do as part of like my marital duties, and that is again, without judgment, it's a real shame without wanting to evoke shame, but it's there there's something there that uh is really missing, and there's an opportunity for uh experiences of deep nourishment and deep receptivity, and so yeah. Do you want to speak to a little bit about the experience of of neediness of of man?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, I can. Yeah, uh, but I think where I want to go to is I want to speak to the man's perspective of what can arise when the woman is in that doing mode, right? When she is hyper busy and the priorities are on the kids, the home, work, and then even to the friends, it's it can be like, well, you know, what about me? Like, where am I on the priority list? And that can be hurtful, and then often depending on the man, his conditioning, uh, it can go one of two ways. One, he can just get resentful, and he'll try to like retaliate and just probably get a bit passive aggressive, or when she comes in to initiate sex and she's ready, he's like, Well, why should I be ready for you? Like, you know, and that resentment build-up uh creates a real disconnect. The other way it can go is you know, because we as men in this current society are so conditioned that we are valued for what we do, then quite often the man will you know see the woman in kind of boss babe mode and think that he's got to compete with that, and that if he provides more, if he can do more, then he'll get the attention, the praise, admiration, and eventually sex that he's really desiring and craving. And so then you've got two people in that masculine mode. He's probably gonna burn out trying to prove himself, she's also in that masculine. And uh we when we talk about the masculine here, and we're gonna go into that in the next podcast, you know, we're talking about that doing mode of being.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

I think what often happens in that situation is that the man's in his doing and the woman's in her doing, and so that by the time they do get to bed at the end of the day, they both just need to collapse into their feminine, and no one has the energy to initiate, no one has the energy to lead, understandably so.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

And so while we're talking about you know this masculine-feminine kind of energy, which is really important when we're talking about sex, it's important to bring up the idea and concept of patriarchy and how influential and impactful this is on couples' sex lives, because we're still swimming in the waters of patriarchy. Yes, we're starting to evolve out of it, and thank goodness for that. But our current society that its foundations are within a patriarchal consciousness, it's no wonder we're all so caught up in doing and busyness and achievement-oriented, because that is the masculine-dominated consciousness. Now, we all men and women have both masculine and feminine energies, so that's why a woman can display masculine behaviors, traits, and qualities. And we were on a call with a couple the other day and were explaining this concept, and I said, you know, think about Gina Reinhardt like that's a woman that totally embodies patriarchy. Okay, so I know there's a lot of men out there that bump bump up against resistance when that term is used, and I understand, I get it, we don't want to blame uh men for the state of the world. Uh, it's more got to do with an imbalance within our consciousness and psyche. Now, as we've just alluded to, one of the impacts of us being masculine dominated within our energy is the lack of feminine. Right? And as Greer mentioned earlier, pornography has had a massive impact on our conditioning around what sex is, how it looks like, what connected passionate and sex should be like, um, when in reality Pornography ninety-eight percent of the time displays a very male-centric, dominant, patriarchal, sexual experience. It quite often is devoid of a feminine flavor and feel, meaning that there's actual empathy and heart connection. Um it's slower, more attuned, there's more feeling, right? A a reason so many couples, and particularly when they're in this doing mode, also their sex is gonna be patriarchal, meaning that it's it's performance-based, it's goal-oriented, it's about getting to the orgasm, it's just getting from A to B. There's no slowing down, there's no attunement, and that's another reason why sex can leave a couple feeling devoid or less connected than when they started, because there hasn't actually been any genuine connection, connection being a more feminine uh value. So yeah, that's being in our doing nature keeps us in a surface level way of relating because it's all about logistics, results that appear externally, and then that expresses sexually, so it becomes performance-oriented, goal-oriented, a lack of attunement, and quite often like not very nourishing. And leaving deplete depletion more than an actual fulfillment.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Absolutely. And when you were talking about when you when you spoke of porn and what that you know shows, it's and this isn't I think it's important to just name that we're not wanting to have a moral debate over whether porn is good or bad. That is something for a couple to discuss and to genuinely um decide for themselves. Yeah, honestly, so we're not talking about you should or shouldn't have porn. What we're showing is that what is shown in porn is is not attuned to how a woman's body operates. We we have a different, a different system. And even if I think to like Hollywood movies and the sex scenes of like, even if it's so-called passionate sex scene, I know I can't remember which movie it is, but it's an Angelina Jolly clip, and I remember she's like thrown up against the wall, and he like goes inside, and within seconds, she's in this incredible like yeah, straight away. Sure. It's it it's no, that's not how we can. I mean, maybe maybe you're watching this and you're a woman, that is what we but majority of women take a long time, right? We know this men down women are like this, like there's this stronger build, and so again, it can also, I know for me, you know, prior to our relationship, I made myself wrong for not being able to do like they do in the movies, you know. And uh, you know, Angelina Jolly can do why can't I do it?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Obviously, consciously I know it's a movie and it's not real, but my you know, it brought a lot of shame, a lot of comparison, and it's been such a beautiful journey to travel this together and discover how we work as a well, it's been a synergistic journey because you know you've had to learn more about your body as woman, and it's it's underpinned, you know, your in-body and whole women's work. It's just as you have learnt about your body and what it means to be woman. I've come along with you on that journey. It's been beautiful, yeah, and there's been so much of my wiring and conditioning that I've had to undo and repattern because yeah, I was conditioned to think that the wild, intense, passionate was how you satisfy a woman. That's the message I got.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, and of course, this is there is so much intimacy that is created and cultivated by going on that journey together, yeah. And by me gradually, slowly, surely learning how to ask for what I want, learning how to direct. And you've been so good at teaching, teaching me. So there is, and this is again, it's not just the amazing sex, it's the it's not even the destination of having a fulfilling sex life, it's the journey of of what that um requires in order to have that. And you know, we have we did the maths one day of the how many times we've been together almost 10 years now, yeah. And we did the maths, and we're like, oh my god, we've had sex like thousands of times, and we're still continuing to have new experiences, deeper experience, higher experiences, different archetypes coming, different flavors coming in, and we've remained monogamous, and it's because of the safety. So, as I said, that our relationship, because it's not just this small defined thing, there's so much within it, there's so many aspects of ourselves that we can explore, and and you've helped me discover aspects of myself from the safety that you bring. It's like you hold this space, and from that I can open and experience new dimensions of myself and what it is to be a woman. Yeah, and as I I would say, as I bring that in and allow that in, that creates like that your presence and your witnessing of that. And this is the deeper tantric work and what it really looks like above masculine and feminine, yeah. Uh, yeah, so it's amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

And I I think it's really important that we name here that you know, we have had moments and seasons where it has got a bit vanilla for us, it had started to feel a bit repetitive, and yeah, I I named to Greer like I'm wanting newness, I'm wanting a flavor, I'm wanting something different, and yeah, that was a really potent, powerful conversation, and yeah, it led to these explorations of different aspects. When Greer talks about flavours, she's talking about different aspects of her own feminine nature, and we're gonna dive into that in the next podcast. But uh, I just wanted to name that yeah, you know, we've been at that level where it started to feel repetitive and like get a bit stagnant, uh, and we've moved through it.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Because it's been named very quickly, yeah. And lately look, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

How long do you think that you've a week or two, which I guess for couples is probably pretty quick.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

Yeah. And we've also, you know, this is I wouldn't expect, and I don't necessarily recommend you do this.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I know where you're going, and I'm just gonna second, I don't recommend it either.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

There's been twice, has it been twice?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Two or three times, I think. Two or three times that Aaron has come to me and said Babe, I'm not feeling attracted to you right now. Yeah. And I didn't put it that bluntly.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

No, no, no, but you've let me know, and the first time it happened, I it was quite a journey within my inner psyche. I mean, it was the the and I I want to preface that Aaron is the man of deep truth and deep love, and so I knew it had no impact on his love for me, and it's because of his love and his respect for me. And you expressed that you felt guilt and shame. I don't want to be feeling like this, but this is what's real for me, and I just need to name it because I know that in and and in naming it it cleared very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah, and I would say this is a practice to go from business class to first class.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yes, don't do it unless you've got that safety, you've you've really worked on the things. Women, you need to be in your body and whole, but the gift of that, and this is another example of where that intimacy and why the the container of the relationship gets so expansive is because in you sharing that you're actually showing me that you trust me that I can handle your truth. And the gift of that is I had to come deep into my enoughness. Who am I if my husband doesn't find me attractive? Am I enough? Am I beautiful enough within myself? Can I be a living sensual being just within myself? And it was it was beautiful because that required me to come into that in a more fuller expression.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, my half of that experience was as soon as I named it, and I've just felt like the awkwardness and the guilt and held you through your process, it just lifted, it was gone. And it was like once I gave myself permission to speak that and it was held, and we traversed it, it was like wow, did the attraction just go next level? Yeah, it was crazy, yeah. So, yeah, that that is an advanced practice.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Yeah, and when I got honest with myself, I knew that I had gone through periods of not finding you very attractive either, but I didn't dare say it because I didn't want to hurt your feelings because I would never say that.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

And it's important to name why I did say that is because it'd been sitting with me for an like a week or so, and we have such a baseline within our relationship of radical openness, authenticity, and truth, and I could feel that I was I wasn't fully opening to you because I was holding this this bit, this little bit of data back, and it was that was why I needed to say it was so that I wouldn't be reserving a part of myself.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah, and I think this is a really nice thread into resentment, and one of the other core reasons, if we go back into that cattle class, if we're moving from basic jet star long haul flight in economy down into cattle class, one of the most common um symptoms of that is resentment, and the further you go into the the cargo ship, the more resentment there is.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah, because here's the truth you cannot desire someone you resent.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, I mean if you think about it, desire is a towards energy. I'm intrigued, I'm curious. Resentment, yeah, it's a totally different, it's an opposite effect. And so if I'm feeling resentful to my partner, it's a push away, it's a I'm not letting you in. So it's no wonder that as the resentment builds, and remembering resentment sometimes is a huge deal, but most often it's these little things. It's this me going in to go for cuddle and you not sensing it, so me turning away.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah, or me sharing something vulnerable and it gets dismissed or belittled.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, there's there's moments where there's been attempts at connection and it hasn't landed and that hasn't been acknowledged or repaired.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

And the other way that I see with clients that is when there's so much tagging of the kids and there's so much on, there's there's so much in that co-management phase that rather than really feel like there's a team and there's this sense of us-ness and we're doing it together, it's like you do that, I'll do that, you do that, okay. You have a break, I'll have a break. And those those needs for breaks get longer and longer, so people need bigger blocks of time away, which means that when partner A comes back, by the time A partner A comes back, partner B is just exhausted, and I might even get jealous about partner A coming in because they're looking all good. It's like, oh great, I'm glad you had a good time because I've been dealing with X, Y, Z. So here you go, you have that. And not only does that um, not only is that a nice feeling for either partner to have, but it will order. I know for you, you've had time where you've been feeling good, and then you've come in and you've seen me and I'm exhausted, and it really actually takes away from what you had. So maybe you got that, but all of a sudden, yeah you come in, you see me, and it's all gone. So that three hours that you had wasn't even worth it and anything. Now you've got to pick up all the stuff that's on the ground. Yeah, yeah. And I was working with a woman, you know, I worked with her one-on-one, and we were talking about this just in the last week, and I was just just so strongly uh encouraging her that when when we've got young kids and we have a big life, and everyone I know has a really busy life, even those without young kids, they're you know having to service their mortgage and they want to drop work, but they can't because of financial requirements, parents getting older, everyone has a lot of stuff on. And it's not always, in fact, it's hardly ever feasible to have regular big chunks of time, but having a daily practice, a daily moment where you know, okay, from 6 till 6:30 in the morning, perhaps it's like 8 to 8.15 at night, just having a window of time, and if 6 to 6:30 for some reason it doesn't work, then you get at 9 to 9:30. But you have a daily practice or some way of nurturing yourself, it doesn't have to be the same practice every day, but there's some kind of agreement so that our baseline, our uh animal body, we know that okay, every day there's a period in the day where I get to recalibrate, and it literally could be five minutes or it could be just micro pauses, having a pause in between dropping the kids off and starting work. So it's it's so important, and one of the reasons why it's important is because it enables I'll speak to the woman again, just have these continual little top-ups so that I can come back into realizing how tired I am, how exhausted I am, or perhaps how energized I am, so that I can. If you ask me, oh babe, do you mind gada-gad? I can be honest with what my capacity rather than saying, yeah, that's fine, and then you going, and then me realizing how tired I am. And again, that's where resentment can build.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

I've seen a lot of women who take care of everyone else just build up like layers of resentment, and the the analogy that comes to mind is if you think about a river, um, resentments build up just like sediment on the bottom of that riverbed, and the river can still flow, it looks good from the outside, but underneath that murkiness is just building and building and building until uh you know the river becomes quite diluted and polluted by this resentment, and resentment will pollute, it will corrode any relationship in any context.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Yeah, yeah, and not only that when there's that build-up in the river, if something then big does come in, you know, something whether it's uh a sickness, an affair, financial challenge, like it's something really big come in from the external and it just dropped into the river, if there's already all that build-up, it's just it becomes a shit show.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Yeah. And so something I want to bring in to this conversation around resentment because we've spoken a lot about you know the women's resentment. So many men get resentful when their women don't open to them and they take it personally. And something I I want to identify and name explicitly is how so many women, so many women, and you know, it hurts me to say, have their own history with sexual trauma. And so you've got to realise, brother, that you're in relationship not just with her as she is today, but also that history, history where she wasn't treated right, history where her boundaries were violated, and it's our role as men to to be that safety so that she can learn to open, learn to trust man and the masculine again because it's a big deal to allow a man in. Wouldn't you agree, babe? This is I think it because again, because of our conditioning, men really look, I'll speak personally rather than making generalizations, but look, I think I totally undervalued and not really thought about the significance of being penetrated. Like it's big, and men need to treat that with reverence and and care. And part of that care is creating the emotional safety and connection. You know, as Greece said earlier, many women, majority of women, need that emotional connection before opening and desiring sex. And they don't just turn on like we do, it's a slow build, and I think men need more education around women's erotic nature.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah, and we will go more into that next time. And I do want to name that again, unfortunately, it's it's a true tragedy, just how many women, not just now but across humanity, across lifetimes, have had what we call capital T trauma, and that's assault, rape, systemic childhood abuse, and that's devastating. It's devastating, and that that must be addressed if if the partner if the woman has had that and the man, many, many have had it too. Many, far more than I realized, you know. Um, and I know for me, I didn't experience any of that capital T trauma. I experienced many, many compounding moments that were traumatic for me that over time compounded prior to meeting you into this um spiral of shame, of shutdown, of numbness, of avoidance, of secrecy, of um deeply fearing that there was something wrong with me. And it it took a immense courage for me to open to you and in the depth of which I have, and that's an example where the safety in the relationship is a uh it's an absolute requirement. There are some of the things that I shared with you that I'd never shared before, and it's that cycle between risk and safety. So I started off sharing some things, you showed me you could hold it, I learned to share a bit more, you hold that, and so over time it kind of dovetails into me being able to trust you with everything, and you've shown me that you can hold that, and again, because of that safety, then that makes it safe for me to open, and as in terms of the penetration, it's and also getting back to like when a woman feels like she has to put out, or like I've got so much to do, and now you want sex. I know that we have spoken about like there's been times where you've wanted sex and you feel like you've been wanting to give it to me, not in this I want to give it to you, but like you just want to give me a love. Whereas if I'm at capacity, the thought, the energetics of having something else like actually physically come into me, it feels like too much. And not only that, if we're looking at that act of penetration of penis entering a vagina, it's it yes, it's going in, you're giving, but then you take, and and so the energy can can it can feel very much like not receiving, it can feel like giving. I also want to name just how important for those who don't know you know, if you have had sex, you have made love, and hopefully it's been a really lovely experience, it's so important that that withdrawal will be very, very gentle because just as a woman takes a while to open, uh it also to just kind of come out like that is it's jarring to her, and that's going to create an impact in her body. This it's gonna create a subtle freeze, and again, this is how unconsciously resentment can build. If I'm having sex with a man, my partner, maybe he's my husband, and we have sex and it's finished, he's just gone. Unconsciously, that's that my body is learning that that's not safe.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, yeah, beautiful. And look, this conversation has been kind of woman-centric, and I think that's actually really essential, given that we're swimming in the waters of patriarchy. And uh, again, you know, to speak to men and uh the the challenges that men face and this topic of sexuality, you cannot speak about the challenges of sexuality without addressing shame. Shame underpins so much sexual dysfunction. Shame is the belief there's something wrong with me, I'm not enough, I'm too much, I'm too much, I'm not man enough, I'm not woman enough. This sense of lack. And so often we will try to compensate for this internal lack by getting something outside of us, and this is where the conversation around neediness that you pinned earlier becomes really important because look, I have been there, I have been a needy boy, and I couldn't understand it at the time. Like my early teenage relationships, I was super needy, I just thought I was being really loving, but what I didn't see was how smothering I was and how repelling that was, and created rejection. That rejection created uh big deep heartbreaks, and me making a soul contract to myself to. Close down my heart and I stayed single for nearly nine years. Um, and my agreement and vow to myself I was staying single until I met the person I was gonna really commit to. Um, however, really underneath that was I I didn't understand women, I didn't get it. I didn't get how me just wanting to pour my love, and you know, this is kind of the the purity underneath the wound is that underneath the neediness there is a purity, many men want to devote themselves and pour their love into a woman. What gets entangled and enmeshed in that is this shame, and that shame can come about from so many different ways. It can start right at birth, the a traumatic birth of this is my own experience as well: having the cord cut too soon, getting rushed to emergency, and that longing to return to mother, who is that first symbol of the feminine, and then we can also have shame around our penis, whether it was shamed externally or we were circumcised. We can hold shame there, we can hold shame around our bodies because of societal conditioning. We're showing images of sports athletes or bodybuilders on magazines, it's like this is what a masculine man is, and so there's shame in that way, there's shame in we're not providing enough, we can't do enough, and so we all of this shame we want to compensate for, and a woman will pick up on that. And when a man has this neediness and he is longing to feel whole and enough again through woman, she gets repelled by it, she can sense it, it's not magnetic because it's the mother, it she it feels like it's a boyish, it's not mature, it's not grounded, and she picks up on it as boyish, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, sorry, I was like so listening to you.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

I was like, Well, I was waiting on what you I gave you the space to go in.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

I was like, it's I know, I was just being so receptive once. I wasn't jumping in like it is, that's right, it's the boy energy, which and again we'll get this into this more because we've been exploring that's the the uh energetics of big daddy energy, and it's the where the woman just feels so taken care of, it's like yeah, yeah. So la lay focus, please. Um so the the little boy energy where the the woman becomes the mother, it's like someone else to take care of, someone else's needs to meet, someone else I have to give to, and it is the opposite, and again that smothering energy will be I've got to protect myself and coward in. And we've even talked about at times when you've kissed me, it's been like so passionate that I've had to like yeah, I've had to well babe, it's like you're squashing a flower, yeah, especially because I'm not a man, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

The fire, fire analogy, right? It can burn that passionate fire can be overwhelming, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

And so again, it's okay to have that fire energy, but you the woman needs time to kind of come in and meet that. If you just come in with that, it's it's too much, it's gonna squash.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Yeah, and look, the reality is, and we probably will at some stage do a whole podcast on shame and its impact on relationships because it is so crucial and influential. Um, and we hope and trust that we've given you guys, the listeners, a a broad spectrum and understanding of what creates this dynamic of couples falling into housemates rather than lovers. Because the the sex and the lack of it is more a symptom of deeper unmet needs, uh deeper resentments or deeper core wounds that haven't been addressed. When couples come to us and they have this problem, we see it as the presenting problem. And you know, it's part of our role to start to unpack and identify what are the actual underlying dynamics that's making the sex difficult or non-existent.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

And it's important to note that if a couple has had that eroticism before, if you started off and the relationship was red hot and it's just gone over time, then that is a very workable dynamic to come back and cultivate that. If a couple has never actually really had that, that is a different body of work and it requires a different pathway. So it's a it's a different thing, but really and doesn't mean that's not impossible, it could just be that you actually need to learn the skills. So you know, if you had your again, if you had your sex education from school in porn, it's no wonder that it wasn't there in the first place. And you can learn, but it's a different journey, and if you've had it before, you can get it back.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

And look, the the reality is sex is a really vulnerable act. We're bare naked, we're revealing all of ourselves, and that vulnerability needs to be met with care, understanding, empathy, and compassion. And so if safety is missing, that vulnerability is not gonna be handled well. So if you're a couple and you recognize that if you're on this plane, on this journey, you're in the cargo area and things are really on the rocky road, as Greer said, then our invitation for you is to check out our free online training. It's on our website, it's called Start with Safety.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

And if you recognize yourself more as a couple who are in that premium economy vanilla space, and you actually like the idea of flying a bit of business and moving towards into first class, then we encourage you to check out our Awakened Intimacy program. It's a really powerful eight-week program. You work with us two-on-two over eight weeks. You can find out more on the services tab on our website, and it's what makes it so powerful and why it's such a powerful pathway to come into that sexual chemistry is because it creates a sense of growth and expansion and newness, and that is one of the core pillars of reinvigorating sexual chemistry in a long-term relationship.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, exactly, because again, sex is a symptom, and if it's repetitive, if it's vanilla, it's because there's a lack of growth. You're stuck in patterns, stuck in the same cycle. And you can also go depth, start to meet each other at these deeper places. You know, that is intimacy, and it's what we're so passionate about supporting couples in learning the skills and the art of meeting one another, holding one another in these deeper, vulnerable places.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

So that wraps up this episode of the podcast. We will be coming in next time and focusing more around some of the teachings around sexual chemistry and polarity, which will be fun.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Yeah, get ready, strap yourself in. It's gonna be uh juice here. All right, thank you.