Goodbye to a Good Dog | Author Interview, Peggy Frezon

Host Elyse Wild interviews author Peggy Frezon on her latest book, "Goodbye to a Good Dog."

 "Goodbye to a Good Dog" is available on July 7, wherever books are sold. 

For more information www.deadpetspodcast.com.

Do you have a dead pet you'd like to share? Email deadpetsofficial@gmail.com. 

Follow us on social media: https://www.tiktok.com/@deadpetspodcast

pet grief, pet stories, pet loss 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Dead Pets. I am your host, Elise Wilde. We are back after taking a week off for Memorial Day weekend. I'm excited about today's episode. Peggy Frasen is uniquely qualified to talk about pet grief. She and her husband Mike rescued senior golden retrievers, and they have said goodbye to many, many good dogs over the years. Recently, Peggy wrote a book about dealing with pet grief. Goodbye to a good dog, published by Rebel Publishing, comes about on July 7th, wherever books are sold. On today's episode, Peggy and I talked about the very special experience of rescuing senior dogs, what it's like to love and lose a dog in the twilight years of their life, and why, despite the pain of losing a pet, it's always worth it. You and your husband rescue senior golden retrievers. Amazing. Tell me about the first senior golden retriever that you guys rescued. And what about the experience made you say, this is what we're meant to do? We have to keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Well, we had a few dogs, and you know, we lost them. And when we were looking for another dog, my husband was looking at the rescue list, and he saw this listing for this golden retriever, and he was skinny and he was all scraggly and he was all disheveled. He just fell in love with him. He really wanted him. I looked at the listing and the dog was 11 years old. And I was like, Mike, we can't, we can't get this dog. We'll we'll adopt him, we'll fall in love with him, and it'll break our hearts. And my husband just looked at me and he said, but he needs us. And that's when for us, it was about what we could do for a dog and not what the dog was going to do for us. So we went and we rescued him. And he had been abandoned. He'd been on his own for who knows how long. Somebody may have just thought an old dog wasn't as much fun, or he was sick. Turns out he was sick. He was just the most loving dog. He would just um sit in. I have this big oversized green chair, and he'd just sit in the chair beside me when I'm working. And he was so loyal and so he didn't have a single behavioral problem. He was so sweet. Eleven months later, we lost him, and he did break our hearts. But it was at that time that we just realized when it was time to get another dog, we were like, we just want to get another senior. It was it was so good and it was so um fit with our lifestyle. We're older now, we're retired, and um it just felt like this was what we were supposed to do. The reason the book came about is we figured because we're going to surround ourselves with these old dogs that we might have for a year or who knows how long, we had to figure out a way to deal with losing them and being okay with that. What was that first dog's name? We named him Brooks. We always rename our dogs. Of course, nobody knew his name because he had been abandoned, but we named him Brooks. And so now we have a senior golden retriever retirement home. And we have it, and we named it Brooks Haven after Brooks.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Oh, I love that. I love that. How many retrievers have you guys rescued at this point?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

We usually only have two or three at a time because we want to be sure to have the resources to take proper care of them. Um, and usually they need medical veterinary care and everything. Um, I think we've had about one, two, three, four, four, maybe six or seven or so. Right now we have three senior Goldens. Pete, he's about nine years old now, and he is our therapy dog dropout. We always do therapy dog work with them when it seems like a good fit. You know, he just he just um couldn't control himself. So he he got so excited around all the other dogs and things. So he dropped it, he flunked out of therapy dog school. And then we got um Sophie is 13, she'll be 14 soon. We've had her since she was 10, she had been a um breeding dog in the puppy mills. And for 10 years, she'd been kept in a cage, not good care, not good nutrition, no socialization, and she um, you know, when she could no longer produce puppies, they don't need them anymore. So she was rescued by a group and we adopted her, and she was she was really broken down at first. She would just sit in the yard and close her eyes because she didn't know how to deal with all the open spaces, but she gradually came along. She's sweet, wonderful, and she's the best therapy dog. She passed her therapy dog test, and she's gone from this, you know, breeding dog to a therapy dog, and she's so intuitive. We were working with a little girl at the library, and she was reading to her. They do a little program. And Sophie, we named her Sophie, she kept leaving the little girl and going to the girl's father, and we'd bring her back to read with the girl. She kept going to the father, and he just kept looking really emotional. And my husband said to him, You know, Sophie always goes to who needs her the most. And the man just said, I just lost my job, I got laid off, and I don't know how to provide for my family. And he was so upset. And he just said, How patting Sophie and receiving her love just helped her so much. How she developed that, you know, from her past, we don't know. And then our third dog, we named him Augie, and we've only had him for about eight months, and he's um he was from an abuse situation. A man was keeping 54 golden retrievers in a trailer, and apparently he never let them outside, and they were all covered in feces, and um, it was horrible. And all the dogs were rescued and have good homes now, and or are finding their homes. And Augie is in training now to see if he can be a therapy dog. Jury's still out on that, we're not sure, but he's doing okay. But um, he's now like just so happy. He's a little bit younger. We're not sure how old he is, but you know, we rescue seniors, but he was in need, so we thought he'd be a good fit to the retirement home. A little youthful energy.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

With Sophie's story of going from a breeding dog that had never been in an open space. I'm sure she had never touched the grass or like seen the sky. And you see that a lot with like beagles that are rescued from lab situations. I watched dogs at the Humane Society a couple years ago, and they got a batch of beagles in from a lab in Kalamazoo. And one of the days they just needed us to like take the beagles outside and get them used to the grass. And it was like so heartbreaking, but also such a special thing to be a part of, to see them kind of relax and open up and get excited. I think that's why rescuing is so, so important is that you never know what a dog could be, and their past doesn't necessarily define who they are. Sometimes they just need the right fit to completely blossom, and how special that Sophie gets to be who she's meant to be now in the later years of her life.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

The Beagles rescues are so inspiring, and and what inspires me is that the dogs um have that capacity to forgive, to love, and to trust. It's amazing. You know, we don't deserve it, but they um they want to show us that kind of compassion and trust. And it's uh it's a wonderful thing to to look at and to um to become inspired by how they live their lives.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

It is, yeah. And you know, as far as all dogs are, but especially dogs are in rescue situations, they're completely dependent on human kindness, 100%. The beginning of the book opens with the idea that grief hurts so much because that relationship was so good and so special. Tell me how that point of view has affected your experience of losing dogs.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

You know, the topic is it's it's difficult. It's hard to deal with grief, it's hard to feel grief. And when you have a dog and come into your home and share your life and your family and your home with a dog, inevitably you're, you know, there's a saying I love that says, dogs give you some of the best days of your life and one of the worst. You're probably gonna face that day. So the book, even though it's a difficult topic, it's not a book about sadness and sorrow. It's a book about love and the connection. And I really try to focus on that. It's hard and the connection though, it's worth it. To have experienced what you experienced with the dog, it's worth having to face a loss.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Agreed, agreed. And, you know, similar to when people hear about my podcast, sometimes people are like, oh my god, that sounds so sad. I'm like, it is, but it isn't. It's about the joy they bring us, it's about, you know, it's a celebration of their lives and all those small moments in their lives that make our lives so meaningful. Having that knowledge, keeping that in mind really helps me be more present with my pets. And they already help you live in the moment. But being cognizant of this is just such a wonderful part of life right now, and I will not always get to be here with you this way really helps me spend time with them in a way that I find meaningful.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

It's true. People more today are feeling like their dog is part of the family, and treating them that way and understanding they don't just need, you know, food and to go outside a couple times a day, they need stimulation, they need their environment enriched, and they mainly just want to be with us, they want to share their time with us and to love us. And I have this big green chair. It's it's like called a chair and a half, it's like an oversized chair. But it's just enough room for me and the dog. No offense to my husband, but me and the dog, you know, I've had so many dogs just share that with me and curl up with me and when I'm working or just sitting there watching TV or reading. And I could never get rid of that chair. It's just so emotional to me that I have that chair where the dogs hang out with me. It doesn't really fit in the space where we have it now, but it's staying.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

I love that. I love that. Something else your book addresses that I hear from almost every single person that I've interviewed for the podcast is the guilt that comes with euthanasia. Some people even describe it in a way of, I killed my best friend. And that to me really signals how much pain that person is over that guilt. Of all the responsibilities of being a pet owner, I think euthanasia is the toughest one to face. So tell me about your experience with that guilt and what advice you have for others that are really struggling with that.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Euthanasia is just the most difficult, heartbreaking decision to have to make. And I had to go through it myself. I felt the guilt. I know when the vet is administering the shot, and you feel like the dog is looking at you, and I've just had this feeling like he trusted me, and look what I'm doing. Once I understood more about being aware of the best you can do with the right time, none of us can really know when exactly 100% the right time is. I put a quote in the book from veterinarian Dr. Mike Paul, who said, We all strive for not a moment too soon, but not a moment too delayed. That's a wonderful quote because that is what we should aim for. Yet, when is that moment? Ernest is the most recent dog that we lost. Ernest was 16, which is very old for a golden retriever. And he was a therapy dog. He had been in a home where the couple had gotten divorced and neither one wanted him, so they just kept him in a cage and never gave him any attention or or love. When we got him, all he wanted was just to be loved and to be padded, and he was just so good. And he had a lot of health issues. He had kidney disease and arthritis and all the typical things you'd get a dog gets when they're old. There's a quality of life scale you can find online or your vet can give you. And I would evaluate his quality of life every day, sometimes twice a day. I really was cognizant of that. Is, you know, is his quality of life still good? And dogs, you know, dogs can't make their own healthcare decisions. They can't know what the future has for them, but we do sometimes have to make that decision. Dr. Paul did say that we all wish that our dog would pass quietly in their sleep. He said that rarely happens, and even when it happens, the dog may have been suffering a lot and you just didn't know it. So sometimes you have to make this decision. You're doing it because it's the right thing to do, and there should be no guilt about it. I always say, make it along with your vet. Combine what you've seen, what you experience with the vet, and usually your vet has done a lot of testing and has all the medical experience, and try to make a good decision. Then once you make the decision, just don't look back and second guess it. It's so easy to say, could I have waited another month or did I do it too soon? But you you've got to just try to make the best decision. I've been there at the end for all my dogs, and I always encourage people, if you can, try to be there at the end with them. It's not right for everyone. But it turns out it's very, it's very peaceful for me and it's very um loving. And we spent that time with Ernest. He was eating right up until his very last breath. He was just, he loved food so much. And the last thing we gave him was a Hershey's kiss because no dog should go to heaven without tasting chocolate. So he had his Hershey's kiss, and that was the last thing he had.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

The book includes really practical ideas like memorial garden, writing an obituary, a scrapbook, even spinning a dog's fur into yarn, which I really love that. I've I've researched a ton of different ideas on how to memorialize pets, and I have not seen spinning their hair into yarn. And it's also perfect for Goldens, too. It's like all the golden hair. But tell me why was it important to you to make this book hands-on and actionable as opposed to just emotionally supportive for people?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I wanted it to be both. I hope the book reaches people, helps them to know that their feelings are valid. I described an experience in the book when I'd lost Brooks and I went to church and my eyes were all red, and I was really upset and I was crying, and they knew my pastors knew that we had lost a dog. And and when I went to speak to them to sort of get some help and encouragement, I saw this look between them like they were sort of belittling my emotions. You know, I it just sort of felt like they thought I was being silly to feel so much. So I experienced that, and I wanted to help people understand, you know, it's not silly, it's not wrong to feel grief for your pet. There were a part of your family, you know, for some people, better than some relationships with humans, you know, and they were there for you. I also wanted to share, it takes as long as it takes. There's no right or wrong way, you're going to feel it. What help is the book if I didn't offer some practical steps as well? I interviewed a whole bunch of people and I put each person's story at the end of each chapter about how they helped their children with grief, how they helped their pets at home with grief, how they experienced people who didn't understand their grief. And so not only my experiences, but a lot of other people's experiences I included so that people can find what speaks to them and what works for them.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Tell me how you've memorialized your Goldens that you've lost. Where do they live on around you now?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Well, the first golden, Brooks, we put a couple of pictures, a tuft of his hair from his tail, his tags, and a paw print in a big like a collage frame that's still hanging upstairs in the hall. It's just a little reminder of all the things that were part of Brooks, you know, that we still have them around. My mom gave us this beautiful slate when we lost our first golden. I grew up in Vermont and it's this Vermont slate, and it has engraved a silhouette of a golden retriever in the dog's name and date of birth, because most of them I don't know their date of birth, but the date they passed away. So now we have one for each of our dogs. We've recently moved, so we're still trying to decide exactly the right place to put them again. We're gonna decide this summer. We had them in the garden, like stepping stone type of things, or we might have them um we had them attached to the wall on the side of the garage. So we're trying to find just exactly the right place for them. It feels like it should be in a garden to me, so I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I think so too. I know I don't get a vote, but I I like the idea of those being in a garden.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, we have a big, beautiful willow tree in the backyard, and it's just that's like a special place. I think it's gonna be near there. I think. Not sure yet, so we'll see. But we have that. You know, most vets give you the paw print or lock of their hair. Some people even get a nose print. I haven't gotten one of those, but some people do. We have keep their tags. A lot of people, one person told me a story about they used to go hiking a lot with her dog, and after the dog passed, she keeps the tags with her when she hikes. And the dog used to love to swim in the lake. So she'll walk along, the tags are jingling, like they used to jingle on the collar, and then when she got to the lake, she always dips the tags into the lake, just a way of giving honor to her dog. There's so many things you can do, so many ways, like you said, you could journal, you could paint. One person took a paint and sip class. She wasn't an artist, but she took the class and just was able to study a picture of her dog and paint that picture, and spending all that time just thinking about her dog.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

One of the things that your book also mentions is how our other pets grieve, how the pets that are left behind grieve for their body, their friend, their family member. Tell me how you have helped your dogs through that process and what should people look out for for signs that their dog is grieving and needs support.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Some of our dogs have grieved a lot for the other dog, and we've had one or two who didn't really seem to care. So I think it's individual. We had a little spaniel who was very bossy, and I think she was like, all right, I got the place to myself now. One of the things we do is we let them sniff the dog's collar after he passed. It's hard to know exactly what it meant to the dogs, but it seemed to help. They seemed to know what they were smelling. We keep it on a shelf and sometimes we take it down and let them smell it. The dogs definitely grieve in the same ways that people grieve. They're missing them. There's no one way because each dog is different, each situation. A friend told me that she didn't want to get another dog after her dog passed, but she opened like a little boarding kennel in daycare so that she'll have companions and friends for her dog. And that was a solution that worked for them. I think you just need to give them time and extra attention, extra walks, extra cuddles.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

The question, should I get another dog? For some people, the answer is yes right away. For some people, it's no, never again. And for others, it's more of a gray area and one that can cause a lot of confusion and pain. So, what's your advice to people if they're struggling with that as well? I'm struggling with the decision of should I should I get another dog?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

It's very personal decision to get another dog or not. For me, because we rescue senior dogs and we can only help so many at a time, we usually look for another senior dog who needs us because now we have a space where we can help them. That's not the case for everyone, and so there's no answer that fits everyone because I've spoke to people about it, and everyone was different. Some people wanted to get one right away, and I always stressed you're not replacing that dog. You're you're just finding a new place for those feelings of love and nurturing to go. And I think that's biggest help. I understand not everyone can do it right away or wants to, but to have a place for my love to go, for my nurturing, and to have another dog who who I can focus on and who needs me really helps me to heal. And I never feel like it's replacing that dog. Some people want to get a dog that's exactly like their other dog. They want the same color, the same sex, same breed. And some people have told me they want to get a dog that's exactly the opposite, as far away from that dog as they can get. They don't want to compare them. They don't want to maybe be reminded of them or whatever. They want something totally different. Some people said they waited a bit. I don't think there's a one answer fits all for that. Except for you got to do what you feel is right for you. And if you decide to get another dog, it's not something to feel guilty about. It's a good thing. You're you're giving another dog the love that you have to give. What do you want people to feel when they finish your book? The main thing I want people to understand that their grief is valid. Their grief is okay. It's perfectly natural. It's perfectly acceptable. And by the time they finish the book, I hope that they might be able to look upon their dog with joy and happiness. Instead of feeling the weight of all the grief, that maybe they can find a way that they can look at the pictures of the dog and just feel like this was a wonderful experience I had. I miss it. I miss my dog. What a great time we had together. My main takeaway is always it was worth it. Having a dog is worth the pain of losing a dog.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe and share with your friends. If you have a dead pet that you'd like to share, please send an email to deadpetsofficial at gmail.com. Dead Pets is a wild media industries production. It is written and hosted by me, Elise Wilde. Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened. Anatola Fra.