Dierks Bentley’s Tour Manager Built a Water Brand to Save Music

Chris Thacker is the co-founder and CEO of Stage Water, a canned water brand built for the live music community. He is also a longtime tour manager for Dierks Bentley and has spent decades behind the scenes of the music industry leading teams, solving problems, and keeping major tours moving.

In this episode of The Stephan Hogan Podcast, Chris Thacker shares how Stage Water launched, how the company became the official water of CMA Fest, and what most people do not understand about starting a beverage brand.

We talk about the real business behind canned water, beverage distribution, co-packing, funding a startup, raising capital, giving equity to investors, building a brand with purpose, and why Stage Water gives back to the creative community.

Chris also breaks down what he learned from years on the road with Dierks Bentley, how leadership changes when you are responsible for people, and why building something meaningful requires patience, risk, humility, and belief.

This conversation is for entrepreneurs, founders, music industry professionals, artists, managers, creators, and anyone trying to build a business that actually stands for something.

Watch more episodes of The Stephan Hogan Podcast for conversations on business, leadership, creativity, faith, ambition, failure, music, and the human stories behind success.verage Brand, Watch This

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https://www.studiobank.com/
https://stagewater.com/
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Filmed in Nashville, TN
Produced: Stephan Hogan
Mavericks Media Co. Production

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Right now, I wanna set a good vibe. Wherever you're at, in the car, in the gym, on a walk. I want you to imagine walking into a place that makes you slow down. Maybe the music, the room, the people, the city outside. So before we start, I want you to take one breath with me. In through your nose, I in your human being breathing. In through your nose. And then exhale nice and slow. Leave the noise outside for a minute. This is a space for stories, honesty, faith, ambition, failure. Realize that your feet are where they are and be right there. Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for being here. Did you know that over half of you are not subscribed? So please do us a huge favor, hit that subscribe button. It's your free gift to the podcast. And today's guest is Chris Thacker. Chris is a longtime tour manager for Dirk Spentley, a music industry veteran, and the co-founder and CEO of Stagewater. He spent decades behind the scenes of live music, leading teams, solving problems, and keeping massive tours moving. This is a conversation about leadership, pressure, entrepreneurship, and what it really takes to build a life behind the scenes. Please welcome Chris Thacker.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

That's a very kind introduction. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. I appreciate you being here. And um, I said before we started that I was gonna try to down as many of these as possible. I know the challenge is on. And um, so we got to keep the music flowing and keep the water flowing at the same time. Um so question for you. Okay. There's this thing that I studied in marketing called corporate social responsibility, CSR. And I went and I looked up stats today, and the ACS or ASCM organization says 70% of consumers want to know how brands support social and environmental issues.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

And then they said 46% of consumers pay close attention when making a purchase decision based off of that corporate social responsibility that brands have. So, like when you look at Tom's shoes back in the day, you'd buy a pair, they give a pair. Oh, yeah. There's definitely something to be said for when I buy a can of water, I know that 15% of the proceeds are going to help people in the creative community on all kinds of levels. And that's really cool. I just want to like say that for people because I don't know if you even knew that.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

But I've never heard that or read that. But it makes sense, and I love that we're trending that way, you know what I mean, as as just maybe a society. And I think Blake Mykowski, who who was the founder of Tom's, did a really good job of like bringing that like B Corp, if you will, to like the public forefront. Cause that's the first company I remember where it was like, oh, whoa, you buy a pair of shoes, this dude's giving a pair of shoes all the way back to somebody in need. And like, um, yeah, I think that that's a great. I love to hear that. That kind of makes it makes me happy to think that like people are being conscious of that. And then maybe that impacts their decision with this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

It's like um, even for me, like these t-shirts that I buy, they're made in America. And it's like, I guess as a consumer, I like the fact that it's made on an old loom that was producing stuff uh during the World War II era, and it was a manufacturer and it was purchased by a company called Buck Mason, and they make their teas in the United States. Yeah, and for me, that's like a CSR thing, I guess, because I'm supporting our community. But anyway, all that to say, um, I think it's really cool. Yeah. What's the hardest conversation you've had to have as a leader during this whole thing?

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I mean, early on, we had to make some decisions about where we're going to co-pack and different partners that were, you know, we were learning about the beverage business, right? Like we touring's touring, music's music. Like you're we've all the three of us co-founders have been in that space for a really long time. And so to jump into a whole new vertical, it was like, shoot, where do we like how do we get cans in bulk? Where what, you know, I'm with you. Like, so my background is civil engineering, and like I'm a little bit of a water snob too. And like I have a thing about like the viscosity of the water and the minerality and like all that stuff. So, like trying to meet co-packers that could do the the the product for us, and like what does their water taste like? And you know what I mean? And we went through that several times and we landed on a partnership at one point that we felt like was right, and then we had to kind of we got down the road a little bit and we had to kind of pull back from it, and and that was an interesting conversation to have on behalf of myself. Like, I I've definitely done that on behalf of artists with tours, and it just felt different for some reason to to walk a relationship back or to say, like, yeah, this isn't working, we're gonna have to move on, you know what I mean, and do it amicably. And and um, you know, I don't know. I feel like all of us have this inner child that wants to like blow stuff up to make it easy to walk away. And like I fight that all the time. I think humans fight that all the time. You know what I mean? Like it's easier if you kick and scream and make a mess and then everybody walks away. It's so hard to do it calmly and peacefully, I feel like. But that was one of those things, and I felt like that was a growth moment for me with Stagewater and for the two other co-founders. Like, we all made that decision together and had the conversation, but it was like we knew early on that this wasn't going to be a relationship that would allow our brand to grow in the way that we wanted it to grow. What was the biggest growth that came out of it? Well, we found the right, the right coping partner, you know what I mean? And that's what is co-packing. So co-packing is uh where somebody else essentially creates your product. Like we don't own the machinery that puts the water in the can and all of that stuff. So like uh that's a copacker, and they do it for every product out there, right? Like you have, I mean, there are Coke obviously owns their own facilities, but there's so many brands that we all engage with um that are made at a third party's facility, you know, and they're labeled as such, and you know, yeah. So that that's our co-packer. Okay. Um copy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah, that's just the way of the market. Like so many products are all produced in the same facilities. But um I wonder if that's why my food sometimes says this is produced on machinery that may have contained you know, peanuts or whatever or whatever. At first glance, people might think water is simple, but I want to know what's something that no one, like no consumer understands about the beverage business until you're inside of it. Going from point A to like, yeah, let's start a water brand, let's donate 15% of the proceeds to help people, let's hydrate people, yeah, to actually doing it.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

I think that the thing that I I mean the copacking side of it was a lot more complicated than I ever thought it would be. Okay. Um and you know, early on in our experience of all this, because there's things that are made, multiple brands and types of beverages are made in the same facilities. Um one of our early like product test runs was at a facility that also had just started making THC beverages. And there's rubberized components in these co-packing lines. And the first like uh pilot run that we did tasted like weed and watermelon and water. And it was like, you know, and that they they they were learning too, you know what I mean? And so there was no fault there, but it was one of those things where I was like, that was kind of that oh shit moment where it's like this is gonna be harder than I think this is gonna be. And it's like you realize that everything that water touches, it picks up that flavor. Whether that's like certain plastic, you know what I mean? It's like you have to be so meticulous in the creation of this simple product. Um, it's so easy, I say easy, to make an energy drink because most energy drinks are um an acidic environment. Like you don't even really have to think about bacterial growth in energy drinks because they're so acidic bacteria can't actually live in the energy drink. So you can copack it all, smash the lid on it, send it out. The flavors are gonna vary, the caffeination is gonna vary, but like you have to be very meticulous with water because it is a neutral pH. Things can grow. You have to make sure that your facility is top tier, you know. And that was we the place that we landed, um, they do some products for Coca-Cola and bigger beverages as well. And like that's kind of the gold standard. And that was, you know, the moment that we were we found that partner was like, okay, there's that was a big hurdle for us. Um it, but it everything it touches, you it's gonna absorb that flavor. So you gotta be really careful.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Yeah, I've never thought about that on the co-packing side, all that machinery. Um well, so we got the CMAs. I don't know when this is gonna air, but you're the official water of the CMA fests. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah, they they were very, you know, uh that was kind of a goal of ours from the onset, was like, you know, we live and work in this Nashville community, and and that's always that's kind of the Super Bowl, right, for Nashville, and and we'll be until the actual Super Bowl in 2030. But yeah, I mean, it's a big, big weekend every year. There's 500,000 people or something that come to town. And um, yeah, so we were we were really, really wanting to be able to lean into that that partnership. And I've been a CMA member for a long time and you know, have had the good fortune to be at the stadium when Dirks has played several, you know, several years and done fun stuff like Spotify House with him and kind of bounced around and seen a lot of it. So for us to be available there was a big goal and and we're very thankful for that.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

So when you're launching, because uh when did when was your official launch date?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Uh January 31st of 2025. And we kicked off uh with Music Care's person of the year event in LA honoring the Grateful Dead. Oh, sweet. Which was the first concert I ever went to when I was 14. So that was also a full full circle. Full circle, kind of surreal moment to like sit in the room and see Bob Weir drinking a can of our water. And I was like, what is my 14-year-old self was elated, you know? I'm sad. It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Right now, are you at the point where it's like, let's try to get stage water in the hands of 500,000 people that come to Nashville this weekend?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yes. Uh, I mean, we're kind of throwing everything we got at it, to be honest. So we have a street team that's out there starting today. Um, they're sampling up and down Broadway for like 10 hours. We have an activation inside the festival footprint. Uh, we're the only water being sold at all the concessions in the free downtown footprint of the festival. Um, we're the only water backstage at Nissan Stadium at Ascend for all of those free stages, um, unless, of course, requested by somebody else's writer. But uh yeah, man, we're we're in full force. And the thing that I'm the most excited about is Friday and Saturday, we're gonna have a plane that's supposed to fly around downtown Nashville pulling a banner that says hot people drink stage water, which is kind of our tagline for you know for the festival. But and there's a lot of hot people. There are a lot of hot people in June in Nashville, man. So um, yeah, we're really excited and and to be, yeah, still early in the journey, it was a big win for us for sure. So what's the win for you guys that you would love to see after the next week? So we have a distributor. We're distributed in Georgia and Tennessee right now, which is um and our route to market strategy. All of these are route to words. All of these are buzzwords I've learned in the past. Yeah, we're all learning. Dude, when you hop in new things, entrepreneurship. Yeah, dude. Yeah, all the fun little uh acronyms.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

I'm still trying to figure out what EBITDA is. I don't know. Yeah, same. Route to market is R2N. RTM. RTM, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

So That's interesting. R we're we've kind of lifted the Red Bull model, um, which is to be in bars and restaurants and event venues first, which is referred to as on-premise in the beverage business. And then your grocery stores, convenience stores, liquor stores are all considered off-premise. Okay. So right now we have a few off-premise accounts in Nashville that are liquor stores and and small independent groceries that are carrying us. Most of the places we show up right now are like the five-spot, Daddy's Dogs, Gramps, uh, Acme Feed and Seed, Play Playground, like bars around that downtown in East Nashville. What our goal would be after this was that we have more adoption by those on-premise accounts and that people kind of get the idea that the musicians playing in their bars can also use music care. They can also use uh backline or you know, some of those places could lean into the another organization we support called Niva, which is the National Independent Venue Association, and you know, hopefully that some of the the things that we support they want to support too, and that they bring the brand on and and maybe they learn about something they didn't know about, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Um was there something in being Dirk's tour manager and that experience that made your mind go to water? Because something I think of is like I think of concerts and drinks and tall boys and all that. And um this is a cool looking product. Thank you. And I was thinking like if I was walking, because I don't drink alcohol. Yeah. So if I was walking around at like a bar and I had this and it was called stage water, there's almost a level of ambiguity to it that I think is cool because I feel like sometimes I'll want to get like a soda water or something with lime. So I not that I'm insecure about it, but just then people aren't thinking you're like sober one or whatever. Well, and I think this is a cool product to be able to it kind of gives me that vibe. Yeah, this is all my like first-time feedback. Yeah, no, because I'm very entrepreneurial myself. Yeah, I always have ideas, and if I had 50 lifetimes, I'd probably do 50 different things.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, no, I'm glad to hear that. And I mean, yeah, there's definitely that thought behind it, is like we want people to to have that experience. And I think the fact that people are drinking less and less alcohol now, it hopefully lends itself to that also. It does. Was that intentional? Uh, I think the vessel choice was intentional because like I think that there's other products that have done a good job of that and normalizing the can part of it. Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that that's where uh other competitive brands have paved the way and have, you know, they've won in that sense. Um, I don't, you know, we talked on and off about plastic. Our our mission is about humans. Sustainability is kind of a secondary part of that, but still an important part of it to us nonetheless. And it was like I think we decided like we were, you know, we kind of made up our mind hard and fast that we were going to stick with aluminum, um, which is not the most cost-effective route to go. But um, I think there's a cool factor to it too. There is and you're not getting all those microplastics, yeah. Yeah. The heating up and the the heating and cooling of the water bottle is an interesting I'm I mean, I've read up on it a a good amount, but I'm curious to see what are, you know, I mean, I think we all are, what are the long-term effects of that cooling?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

100%, man. And there's something about being in the dark for bacteria too. Yeah. Bacteria growth that would lend itself, I would imagine, to a longer shelf life. Yeah. Um, so you're starting this company, you guys decide to do it, and then my big question is how do you fund giving away as much water as possible to people? And do you have to get investors when you're starting something like this? You do. Um and how hard is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Well, that that those are all interesting. I'm still learning how I don't know. I mean, I know that we have a small pool of people that are were close friends of mine that stepped up when I started kind of talking about this idea, and they were like, Yeah, man, you should do that. Like, what do you need to do that? And it's like they've had some big wins in their lives, um, and and they were willing to share some of that with me and with our team to see what we could do with this, you know, and trust us with uh a little bit of capital to try to make the most of it. Yeah. Um, and not a little bit, but you know, not Yeah, you need a big chunk of money to be able to launch properly. It's tricky, and we've done a lot with what we started with, and we'll we'll kind of tee up probably, you know, one of the outcomes you asked about CMA Fest is like we want to be able to show those bigger wins and show some brand awareness. And and once we have that data, hopefully we can expand that into another, you know, another round of capital that'll allow us to continue to scale.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Um so yeah, and for people like that maybe don't understand funding, there's rounds of funding within businesses and startups. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Another thing I learned being in the beverage, yeah, you don't ever think about, I mean, yeah, I people with record deals think about it, but like as a production person in the music industry, you're not like, where does all this money come from? You know what I mean? But when it's like, oh, this cost, you know, I mean, you're gonna pay you're gonna pay fifty to a hundred thousand dollars to get your pilot run done for a certain amount of can, you know what I mean? And it's like, where did where do you come up? Like, I don't, we didn't have that kind of capital, you know what I mean? So finding that and finding the right partners, um, and then learning about like, yeah, so you have your kind of friends and family round, and then your seed round, and then you can lean into like series A, B, C, and you know, uh and it's interesting because there's companies that are valued at billions of dollars that have never made money. I mean, Spotify was one of those for a long time, you know. They were perpetually in the red and taking on investment, taking on investment until you hit a certain scale by design where things become revenue positive and everything's working the way that you designed it to work. But And then the investors, because they're investing, own a piece of the pile. So as a founder, you're giving away equity, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah, from the get. Yeah. And there's and it's a bigger piece at first. And as more people give money, that percentage changes.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

It does, and your val as your valuation goes up, your share price goes up, and you know, all of those games. And I'm still, I mean, honestly, still learning about that. And because you're like, right now, let's just get water in the hands of people and get them drinking it. Well, and there's all kinds of legality around all of it, right? Like the way you take on capital and the way that you structure the equity that those people get, and like, you know, we were really lucky. So some of our investors have had the good fortune to go through different mergers and acquisitions, and you know, they were like, hey, start here. Like, here's our legal team that did this whole huge MA deal for us. Like, so we're super fortunate in that way. Like, I'm that's one thing I didn't have to go looking for was like a really good lawyer, which I didn't have that, you know what I mean? And I didn't have one that specialized in manufacturing and beverage and accountants that that spec, you know, I was like, I I don't I didn't know anything about any of that stuff. So for them to show up and say, hey, we believe in your idea, also here's some team to put around you that can make sure that you're heading in the right direction was such a blessing. And and I've been very thankful for that, you know what I mean? Because there's all kinds of stuff in contracts uh that I didn't know anything about. Yeah, man. You know, when you get into distribution and all of that stuff, like there's it or projections. It's all very similar though, in in to like the record business. Like it's an analog product, right? Like it's you I'm handing you what was equivalent to my CD 20 years ago. Um, and you're not making dollars, you're making cents on every can that's sold. So you're building this revenue stream just like you would from a song in the 90s. And it's about volume, it's about volume, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

And that's where the money is. Even if we think about streaming and we we did that kind of um correlation, it would be, you know, like you're gonna make money on a lot, a lot of streams. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah, you have to, and you have to diversify like you know, your royalty revenues as an artist come from not just terrestrial radio. Or Spotify, but also uh placement and songs or in movies. And sync. You know what I mean? Sync and it's mechanicals. Yeah. So all of those streams build into this one thing. And it's like that's kind of the way that I assimilate this. Yeah. Like, because I'm came up in the, you know, my background is music business. So it's like that makes sense to me, and not trying to like, let's make all the money at once. It's like we're going to really put our time and energy into building this, these streams, and hopefully they grow into a river that we can, you know, then help underwrite our fellow roadies and musicians. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

I love that. So a couple things, because you and I are both on a journey of learning like uh entrepreneurship and business stuff. I'm very interested in it. And it's such a learning curve, but it's also fun and exciting.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

There's a TAM is something I didn't know about, total addressable market. And then I was curious because for water, I would think your total addressable market is pretty big.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

It is very big. And yeah, and I should have the answer to this.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

And no, I was just curious, I was just curious because of your branding and the way it is, who is the person that you're kind of going for right now?

SPEAKER_01 23:21

I think for us, uh, it is the I mean, we want the people that are fans of live entertainment. We want people that are fans of human connection.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

And like so I could go to like an amphitheater out in the middle of somewhere, and I could buy stage water as my water kind of idea. Like that my concert.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Yeah, and that's the the market that we want to address. And we've found some good partners with people that are those places. Um different venues around Tennessee and Georgia. And then we direct ship to some places in Florida and Missouri and Oregon and um yeah, New York. Like we're we're trying to send product to people that we find as that are that are wanting that. But that's our address, like our, you know, the TAM, the total addressable market is kind of humanity when it comes to water, right? Which is naive to say, but you you know what I mean. Yeah, but then the brand. Everybody could be a proper consumer. And then the branding is kind of geared more towards that entertainment focused. Um, but I think also by default, because we're three, you know, three guys that range from 30 to 50 that started the company, like we're not going for that like youthful punk rock vibe necessarily. You know, I mean, we want it to be a little sleek, a little more classy, a little more accessible. We want it to be um, you know, somebody feel comfortable giving it to their kids because it doesn't have, you know, any kind of negative connotation on the can or whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Because we've gotten that feedback from folks too that are like, yeah, I don't buy a certain product that I mentioned earlier, yeah, before-mentioned product because of that. And I'm I'm uh Christian, and for me it's like like I'm I believe in like weird like stuff can get weird in the spiritual realms, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, so like I'm like I've heard that feedback from a lot of people. I mean, it's it's actually it's an interesting part of that that I never really expected, but there are a lot of people that did that feel that way about it. Yeah, yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

So this is a great like option. Um, so one of the big things that I've been learning in podcasting is key performance indicators, KPIs. Yep. And so I guess in the business world, and I'm just like really interested in talking to you because this is fresh for you. You're learning business, I'm learning business, you're starting a water company. I always thought it would be cool to start some kind of a beverage thing someday way down the road, but I don't know if I'll ever do it. So the thoughts are there and the questions are there. Um, key performance indicators are the things that tell you if it's working or not. So after CMA fest, you said you're gonna look at the data. What kind of data do you guys look at to see if it was a success? Or if you know, like what could you have done better? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Like if you went back and you like I think so. Having the street team out there and giving away product, I think that there'll be a hard number of like, oh, we gave away X amount of cans, which is a great indicator as to how receptive people are. Might be a little bit skewed if it's a hotter day.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

But like, um, I think that's a big one. I think that if we start seeing stuff organically popping up in social media where people are holding cans, and like, you know, it shows that there's that human engagement. And are we are people tagging our brand and and their socials for whatever reason? So I'm curious to like this is the first time we will have opened ourselves up to feedback at that scale. And that I find that super interesting. And I'm kind of scared about it. You know what I mean? It's like I mean, again, I kind of always go back to the record thing, but it's like playing somebody your first single and being like, what do you think? And you put it out into the world, and like at some point you just put things out into the world because you believe in them and believe in what you're trying to accomplish with them, whether that's art or a product or whatever. And that's kind of the that's we're at that tipping point. Like here we are, we're pushing, you know. I I mean, we probably have a couple hundred thousand cans floating around at CMA Fest this weekend, and like how many of them get drank? How many do we pick up and take back to our warehouse? You know what I mean? Like, those are kind of gonna be the KPIs I think that I look at more than we have other levers that we're pulling to, like we're giving away a guitar, and you know what I mean? Like, um, so how many people engage with that? Like, how many people scan the QR code to win the telly and those kind of things? Oh, that's cool. Yeah, is it signed? No, it's uh it's a custom American-made fender uh telecaster, it'll have like stagewater on it, and then uh good buddy of ours who is uh Billy String's guitar tech was John Osborne's guitar tech, he's gonna relic it all up for us. Oh, that's sick. Yeah, so that'll be cool. I mean, it's one of those things we were somebody came up with the idea and they're like, Yeah, you can get these cheap guitars. And it's like, I'm not giving away a cheap guitar. Yeah. Like as a you know, a guitar player a million years ago in my one of my different lives, it was like, Yeah, we're not, I'm not giving a cheap guitar. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's we'll give away a cool guitar.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

So, how hard is it to get like a artist or an influencer to start drinking stage water on stage?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

That's a great question, and that's another thing that we're gonna find out this week. Um, we've reached out to a hand that whole spectrum of influencer, whatever's happening, is so it is there's no rhyme or reason to it that I've seen so far. And it's like people obviously have different social metrics that you can look at, but like you can look at two people with the same social reach and their ask, their financial ask can be wildly different. So um I don't know. We're you know, we we we haven't really leaned into that big time yet. Um, and I think we will. That's the next thing on our list. And uh we we have uh this weekend we are gonna partner with Lauren Watkins, who's an up-and-coming country singer, and then the band Lula. Those are two that we landed on actually today on the ride up here to sit with you. And um, we had the band Lula out with us last year on Dirks' tour, and Logan and Malachi are both from a small town right near the small town in Georgia that I grew up. So there's some natural synergy there, and they're just stellar people. Um, and then Lauren, I really love what Lauren's doing, and I think that she's she's gonna be a uh hopefully a big star, and like, you know, we we wanna see I I think investing in and finding relationships with younger up-and-coming artists are exciting, you know. Um, and that's always kind of been a fun part about being on a tour and seeing the people that Dirk chooses to come on the road and getting to kind of interact with those people and then seeing who goes on to do fun things. Um so those are our two beyond that. I don't know, we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

So I'm excited, just uh I I'm putting myself in your shoes, I guess, because I'm thinking about it and I'm a little nervous feeling too. I'd like want to go down on the street and spy, you know, and they're like yeah, are they are they if you're brave enough to get down on Broadway during CMA fest? How many people are grabbing the cans?

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Oh, that person passed, dang it. Yeah, like I know, and it's funny. So we're I myself and Zach and Jay are two other co-founders, we're all out of town this weekend. So we've kind of you're flying to Toronto today, yeah. Flying to Toronto, Zach's flying up tomorrow, and then Jay's in Calgary. Um, so we kind of like built this thing with uh so uh partners that we have that are in town and running all of it, and we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

We'll see how it goes. Dude, so between being a tour manager and being the CEO owner and launching a startup, how many hours of a week do you work? If you're around Music Row, you've probably heard of Studio Bank or know someone that banks with them, and there's a reason for that. They set out to rethink the typical experience, put people at the center of it, infuse innovative technology with genuine hospitality. Their whole idea is to be uncommonly modern and surprisingly human. That's a big part of why I'm proud to partner with them. They do not make you feel like a number. You get real people, real support, and a team that actually cares about what you're building, whether that's your business, your family, or your future. They also offer immediate ATM fee reversal at any ATM machine in the entire world. That's why a lot of my friends that are on the road bank with them, visit studiobank.com or call 615-338-9998. Let them know Stephan Hogan sent you and see how Studio Bank can serve you today. Studio Bank member FDIC Equal Housing Lender. Artists, managers, labels. Are you looking for a high quality affordable merch item your biggest fans will actually buy? Custom branded merch guitars from the graphic guitar guys are one of the highest grossing tour products, often second only to t-shirts with 300 to 400% markups. They're an easy way to brand specific tours, albums, or a special project, and not offering them leaves real money on the table at any career level. With unbeatable pricing, top-tier quality, fast turnaround times, and hands-on customer service. The graphic guitar guys work with everyone from Stadium Axe to bands touring in a van. Do yourself or your artist a favor and see what the graphic guitar guys can do for you. All of them. I mean, I think I and and how much do you lose sleep over this?

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I do, I I kind of have found a place in my mid-40s where I don't lose sleep that much anymore. Um because I feel like I try to do everything I can until I have to definitively stop. And sometimes that stop is five, and you know, I'm cognizant that like we're gonna take the kids to a concert or we're gonna go to the pool or whatever, and try to be home because a lot of you know, a lot of my work as a tour manager happens at home. All of this work happens at home because when we're out doing stuff with dirt, it's like that's my focus. You know, we're at a show with Luke Combs's team, and there's 80,000 people there. Like in that day, I don't have time to think about this. And I, you know, I'm there to, and it's actually a really nice reprieve because I can just engage with our team uh on tour, and that is a way to have a reprieve from this, and then when I'm home, I can focus on this, and you know, it gives me a little separation there. So it's actually it creates a nice balance for work, but uh the hours get slam.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

I bet. What's the what's the most rewarding part of being a tour manager for Dirks?

SPEAKER_01 34:31

I think the most the most rewarding part is the our team. I I think the team that Dirks has built is he has all of the people there are have been there for so long. Like our his merch manager has been there 22 years, front of house guy's been there 20 years, lighting guy's been there twenty years, I've been there 14 years. You know, it we we have such a everybody likes to refer to their road people as their family, but it's like I've been sleeping across the aisle from the same people for over a decade, and like it really makes showing up to work and the way that we work together very rewarding. And all of that obviously culminates in uh you know, he and the band on stage and them being at ease and things being correct and all of the production being right, so they can literally step out there and not think about it and just knock it out of the park, which they do.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

I mean So things like probably because you're so far in, move pretty smooth within your camp. They do. Yeah, and it's a blessing. Like come toured, it's like not a huge deal. Everyone knows what their job is.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah, which is, I mean, I see, you know, and we have obviously every year we have new opening acts, and some of those artists are, you know, have ranged from when I started as tour manager, it was Parker McCollum and Riley Green were the first and second of the tour, and then Jordan Davis and the brothers Osborne and like, you know, all these different people that we've had the opportunity to interact with. And it's always a good reminder when you see like new artists that are going through those growing pains and staffing and they're finding their people, you know what I mean? It's uh it's always fun to see them find their their tribe and their team and have success, but it's also a constant reminder of uh Dirks has built a team that has lasted and it it makes everybody's day smoother, you know? Why do you think he chose you 14 years ago? I I well I I was I kind of showed up as a set carpenter, like the the guy who was there before me, a gentleman named Tom Addison, he and I had worked together uh on Butch Walker's tour and on Courtney Love's tour, and Dirk's needed a set carp, and Tom was like, hey man, if you want to come and you know put the staging together every day, there's an opportunity there. And um, at that time I was tour managing a really small band called Shovels and Rope. They're a husband and wife duo, Carrie Ann and Michael, and they are incredible people. And we've been driving around the country for six months in an RV, and it was the two of them and me and their dog, Towns. Um and they were kind of gonna, they were winding down their first record cycle, and it was like I'd never worked in country music, but I was like, I'll jump in, man. Like, let's just try to keep some momentum going and stay in the music business. And so I jumped in and did that and quickly became the bass tech as well as the set carpenter, and then became the stage manager, and then took on doing playback for the show as well as stage manager. And when Tom exited uh at the end of 2019, Dirks' manager called me and was like, Hey, we think you could be a good fit for this. Take some time, you know, talk it over with your wife and your kids. And because there it's a you know, the stage manager role is a very day of show role. There's no emails that it's you show up and you run the day. You're responsible for the trucks going in and out and all the labor with the unions, and you know what I mean? It's like that's your work is all culminating into this moment, like like it would if it was a baseball game, you know what I mean? Um and you know, she and I had the conversation like this this the work load changes when the work happens changes, doing the advancing and all that stuff is uh, you know, it's an off hours kind of thing. Um and I was like, great, you know, she's like, talk about it, we'll reconnect after Christmas, and then two days later she called and she was like, So words out, people are I've been flooded with resumes in or out. And I was like, I guess I'm in. So um I jumped in and then we immediately had COVID happen. So we did two or three shows, I think, for you know, my first year as a tour manager, and then we didn't tour for 18 months. Um so you're kind of sitting at home, and at that point, there was an interesting part of that though for me because I I decided in that moment, like there's a way, like all these people, we've all worked together for a long time. How do we stay cohesive? And it was like, so we started setting up these like weekly Zooms where everybody would get on, and you know what I mean, and we did it, and our team showed up pretty consistently for the duration until we all got back together. And it was like one of those the first time I felt like I'd made a leadership decision and that it was it reinforced that all of those people wanted to be there and wanted to spend time together and missed one another. Um and that I it definitely helped me. I hope it helped them, but it helped me through COVID, you know what I mean, to to check in on that Thursday night and be like, hey man, what have you been doing all week? You know, like what yard project have you successfully achieved? Because at that point that was kind of all anybody was doing, you know. Yeah, so um this idea was birthed out of that time. Yeah, 20 the end of 2021. Um, this kind of kind of popped out of that idea, and yeah, here we are six years later, five years later, and um and it, you know, Dirk's again, that whole hit the organization that he's created, him as a human have been um just caring and beneficial beyond words, you know what I mean? And like he has beverage companies that he's part of and that he's you know spun up. And so it's interesting and insightful, and like he's you know, he's a few years older than I am, but he definitely has been generous in sharing those journeys with me and saying, like, hey, have you guys thought about this or that? And it's like it's always you know, those little golden pieces of advice where you're like, No, I I didn't know I should be thinking about that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

So you want to hear my piece of advice? Yes. You need to do the uh you know how Pepsi had the Pepsi challenge? You need to do that. Okay, you should do the Topo Chico versus Stagewater. Let's do it. Or like the stage water challenge, and it would be like another bubbly versus that, yeah. Or like the stage water challenge, and it would be like Fiji versus Yeah. I don't know. I'm up for it, or like a competitor, yeah, versus yours. Yeah, and you guys just start doing that and you do it with artists, like like backstage, like get them to do the taste. Like Zach Top's gonna do the the challenge.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yeah, can you guess which is which? Which beer is it, Zach? Yeah, which one, yeah. But you know, Zach Acours and then a stagewater and see let him decide what that would be the perfect.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

I love Zach. Yeah, that would be but you get what I'm saying, man. Yeah, that's my new idea I just had for your brand. That's free. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's a free idea. But um, yeah, because it's interesting. I'm thinking like marketing and all that as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

No, and I'm so I'm you know, what you guys do here is is I'm so not a marketing-minded person. I'm very much a logistics person, you know what I mean? Like, I'm happy to coordinate cans and buses and trucks and tours, but like I'm I'm not that. Like, I'm not, I don't think in the way of like, how do I make this engaging or enticing for somebody else? You know what I mean? So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah, you should do it at you should do it at CMA Fest. And video on the street with people, yeah. Just like go find random brands and see it which one they like more.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Yeah. No, I mean, we can definitely pull that off the next couple days. All right, sick.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

We'll see. Well, thanks me for the idea. I don't know. I'm I'm just like um part team stage water now. I love it. I'm just making myself an ambassador because I drink so much water. I I fill up my Stanley probably like five times a day. Yeah, and those are 40 ounces, so 200 ounces of water. That's strong. Yeah, I don't know how much that is.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

I get two 64 ounces in a day, is my goal. Well, is mine 40 or 60?

unknown 43:06

40.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Okay, yeah. You do two this big, yeah, like aluminum. It's obnoxiously large. Is that a gallon? I don't know what a gallon is. I think a gallon's 128 ounces. So 64 ounces is a half gallon. But if you're doing 40 times five, you're 200 ounces. Like you're well, you're over a gallon. Yeah, that's a lot of water. That's a lot. Hopefully, I'm not diabetic. Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Dude, uh, so this is cool, man. I've never had someone on that's like just starting a company. And so the cool thing is the idea of being able to like come back and sit down and being like, hey, we started and we did this podcast back in 2026, right? At the precipice of CMA Fest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

And now look at you. I hope it's it's still around. That's my only want as we push forward and find the right. Home and the right partners, you know what I mean? And I think that that's going to be it'll reveal itself, it will, and that's a whole part of the journey, too. You know what I mean? Is like going out there and just putting it again, putting it out there and seeing what the response is and you know, vulnerability. I've heard you talk about vulnerability on different episodes of your podcast, and it's like that is it it's such a weird thing to have that connection with something that's not necessarily art or music or you know what I mean? But it's like and maybe some people don't hold it that precious, but I think just the way that I function, it's like I'm always trying to do something that is meaningful and fulfilling, and like hopefully people find that simple idea in this. Um, because the idea really is bigger than the product itself, you know what I mean? It's like it's not there's good water everywhere in America. This is about the how do we keep people from having to pull a GoFundMe when their kid gets sick, you know what I mean? Like that's the real genesis and the real foundation of this idea is like I don't want people that do what we do to have to suffer hardship without assistance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

And that is the ethos, man, and that's what I think is important because I'm thinking like, I don't know what margins are when you're at this point, but if 15% are already going to, you know, nonprofits, then that's like right off the top. And then whatever your margin is for the next part, it's like that's a big um big chunk and a big risk uh to be able to do something because you have belief in it, which is back to why I looked up this data because I had read it before about the corporate social responsibility, but I forgot what the stats were. And so the current stats with 70% of consumers wanting to know that you support a cause, and 46, almost 50%, are making a decision based off of the the cause. So I think it's cool that you have here on the can it says if 15% of profits directly support cruise venues and artists who keep the music flowing.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

And so I think that's really special.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Yeah, dude. I appreciate you coming on the podcast. It's a unique one for me. Um because it's so different for you, and I'm in my learning journey of things, so it's fun to like talk a little bit about you know things where there's that level of uncertainty because I think that that's something that anybody that's pursuing a dream experiences. Yeah. And you have your like, let's say, nine to five job as the main tour manager. Absolutely. Now you're doing this, and I would imagine that you're thinking, I don't want to speak for you, but I would be thinking someday I'm not going to be a tour manager forever, and I also am going to want to buy back my time. What how would what would be an exit strategy for me off the road in the eventual future when you're, you know, not every artist is touring forever, not every person, you know, because the music business is a pretty cutthroat thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

It's a fickle thing, man. And but you know, back to the longevity of Dirks' crew, I mean, that's wholly contingent, obviously, on the longevity of Dirks' career, which has already been a stellar show. I mean, he put his first single out in 2002 and has been on tour ever since, which has allowed those guys and gals to be there for so long, me included. Um and yeah, the older I get, like you said, you know, all of us on the road, I think, start thinking about that, even as a musician. Like, how do I minimize I don't want to do a hundred shows a year anymore. I would like to do 50. And, you know, like you said, buy back that time. And I think that's a lot of it's a function of scale, and a lot of it is, you know, finding other ways to to create revenue that are outside of that structure, you know, yeah for ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

But yeah, it's just diversifying, yeah, and and having something because the thing that people don't realize for like music business or entrepreneurs, I don't know about you, but like for what we're doing here at the podcast, there's no retirement account.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

You know, like we have a couple sponsors and we're 1099.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

There's no we're not paying in the retirement.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

But that's that growth part of it too, right? Like you said, you guys are in that learning journey, and like I I know you're or I I and I'd love to hear more about this. You and I didn't touch on this, but like building out your new studio and transitioning to a new space, and like all those things are interesting evolutions in what you guys are doing, and like um how does that feel for you?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Uh very uncertain. Like, okay, you know, like um we've been to this spot for over two years, and there's a few things at play. One of the big things is we have a really loud neighbor. Oh, I gotcha. And she's always on her cell phone. And she's a real estate agent. Yeah. And um, she's just super loud. But there's been a lot of times door slams things where it like picks up on the microphone, and then uh another part's just like permanent, you know, and how can we do it where it's more comfortable, even more comfortable for the guest and the guest experience. And that's something I'm learning. I just interviewed Ben Montague, who's a Carter Vintage guitar owner, and he owns Norman Rare guitars, but he's talking about the obsession of a customer experience, and that's something I'm starting to think about. So the studio that we're building is in a space that was built in our home to be a studio, and so it's going to be no one's heard this yet, but it'll be there. So it's like I'm welcoming you into my home. Yeah. Like we have like a really nice espresso machine. It's like, do you can I what can I get you? Can I get you a stage water? Would you like bubbly? I love that. Would you like bubbly or regular water? You know what I'm saying? Like that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Yeah, and it becomes like it is your home. And so you're it's a natural comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

But I'm also scared and insecure that people are gonna be like, you know, oh, that's less professional or whatever. But really to me, it's about like doing the right thing long term. What does long term look like? Yeah. And so um the podcast for us is at a point where it's really at an uptick. And we finally have after uh basically flat from a start to like this last babe, how long would you say we've been really kind of hockey sticking? Like we've seen an uptick. More recently, yeah.

unknown 50:52

More recently within months.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Yeah, within months, it's just starting to go like this. And so that's exciting because it's like supporting a family off of this. How do we do that? How do we generate revenue as a business, as a podcast? Then we're talking to businesses and brands and figuring out partners, and then they want to know what their key performance indicators are for the podcast. And it's like, well, you're not just buying like clicks, you're buying influence in yeah, this industry and in Nashville. Right. And so, like, that's kind of a different marketing position.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

And content. I mean, essentially, like 100%. Um, 100%. What was what do you feel like was the kickoff on that? Like the where was there a certain episode that you felt like all of a sudden it tickled the algorithm the right way and it started to percolate, or like I don't I'm always fascinated by that stuff. Like, I know nothing about any of the algorithmic social. Yeah. Let's ask Hale. That's the old guy in me.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Kipmore and Bear. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 51:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Okay. I think those episodes helped. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's been a few things. I think it's just the amount of relationships built with people.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

You know, it's just such a relationship industry. Everybody says it, but it really is. Yeah. And then um one of our partners, Studio Bank, has c connected us with more of people on the business side. So like some of their uh founder advisory board that are people that are in like in original investors in their bank um are like big CEOs in the music business. So we've had some people on that have a different angle. And I think there's a lot of just hungry people for information about you know, getting educated instead of just the talking points that a lot of people have.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

I thought that your mix of guests, I definitely thought it was super cool to see like Rusty on here and people that are very business focused and learning about like the publishing vertical, which I mean I know about some, but there's always things to learn, you know, especially at that scale with Sony and what they were doing. And I think that that blend of the business acumen and insight with the Kit Moores and uh, you know, and Natalie and I talked about her episode earlier. Like, I think that it's it I've I was super intrigued and to start to become a uh you know, a listener and a subscriber. So yeah, well great, man.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

I'm I'm glad to hear that because I'll tell you this like you could have a million passive viewers, or you could have three of the right viewers.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

You know what I'm saying? And so it's like with the rusty episode, a lot of people in the business watched it and listened to it, and it all got back to him. And it was like, well, how do you put a price tag on the fact that you're able to create content and host someone to collaborate with Sony Music Publishing on posts and things like that? Yeah, and that's like the interesting part of the business where you're like, I created this literally to if each episode helps one person and I make a frame by the end of it, then it's a win.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

That was it, dude. I'm always just focused on helping one person, and then that focus is just kind of done this, man.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

And then I feel like God's just opened doors is again like my face and a big part of my life. And I feel like it's just one thing after another, and you don't ever see like super far into the future like you're doing with this. You don't know what the outcome of CMAFS is. No, yeah. But what you realize is you don't have the control, like control's an illusion. You have influence, but you really can't control the outcomes of anything. Yeah, I thousand percent agree with that, you know. So it's like it's out of your hands at a certain point. Actually, Vince Gill told me that once. It was his first like big piece of advice I got when I got to Nashville. You can't control the outcome. And uh I never really uh came to life until the last couple years for me. Um, and having a son and like us going from me and Haley doing whatever we want whenever we want to, to having a three-year-old, you know. So life has changed drastically. But yeah, bringing things in house is gonna be special. And we're just trying to get funding from uh like doing the go funding. And it's hard, it's a lot harder to um because algorithms don't want to send people to external links. Oh, they want you to stay on the platform, yeah. So if you post a go fund me link, people they're gonna like shadow ban your video kind of. Oh, I didn't even think about that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, they're not gonna rank it in the algorithm, yeah. And so the real thing is like Instagram stories, but only so many people see an Instagram story. So you're talking to the same people annoying them with your GoFundMe things all the time. So um, listeners, if you listen, we're doing a GoFundMe to support the new studio. Yeah, the big thing's sound treatment, and we worked hard in this room, yeah. And it's pretty quiet, but it's still like my voice bounces off that back wall pretty bad. So we put it, but it's just figuring out the room. Yeah. It was a long answer to your question.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

No, I love it though. I mean, I'm excited for you guys to do that, and like I think the you know, I love seeing projects like that pop up on GoFundMe, you know what I mean? And it's like where people can dive in and like invest in a thing that they enjoy and help people perpetuate art. Like that's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Yeah, I've always donated to them. And then behind me, what I'm gonna have, I think it'll be behind me or the guest, it'll be a list of all the names of the people that uh donated. Oh, yeah. So it's like the new studio, but it'll be like a cool framed piece of art that's like everybody's names in there. Yeah, that's great. And so I think that's a special little thing that you know people can get out of it because it's like asking for money, and they're like, Well, what am I gonna get in return? You know, well, you're gonna keep getting podcast episodes and you're gonna get your name on this little thing.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

Creating entertainment for you to enjoy, man. I want to help you out. Yeah, that's a big part of it. And like I love that, and I'm yeah, I'm excited for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

I appreciate that, dude. I'm excited for you. It's cool to be at this level of knowing that you launched January 31st, 2025, and then here we are in June. And it's like now it's a really like big two-market opportunity for the first like really big scale thing.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

That's what scary annex security it is. And the hockey stick moment that you're talking about, it's like, does it happen? You know, and like to see that, and I I love to hear that that like that's what everybody's looking for, right? It's like, and I think for me and maybe for you guys, that part is uh, I mean, obviously we all want to keep we want to create revenue, but there's also that that is validation. Like, I've been working hard. Now people are starting to adopt, you know, this podcast as part of their go-to listening experience, or this brand as part of their daily drinking experience. Um that that hockey stick is like the pat on the back, I think, that people need, especially where we're at as a brand, and it sounds like where you guys are at. Like, that's gotta feel really good. Of like, here it is.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

Yeah, I'll tell you to I'll I'll tell you what the best thing was. We went to this um Kit Moore had his like album release Friday, and we went to the concert. When was that? Saturday night, babe. And so, like, we went with um we had some wrist bands for like the VIP thing. So we went in, and the guy at the front door that was handing out the wristbands, I was like, it's for Stefan Hogan, and he was looking on it, and then it was like Stephen Hogan podcast, I guess was what the name was under. He's like, Oh, dude, I listened to your podcast. That's awesome. I just listened to this episode. He's like, I interned it so and such and such a place, and now I'm interning at red light. Yeah, and I dude, like your episode, and I'm like, dude, that's the win right there. That's the way like this young guy is like learning things. I have no clue who's listening, you have no clue who's drinking, yeah. And it's like this weird thing, but like when you get to have that tangible little conversation with someone and it's impacting them, you're like, that's it. Yeah, that's what you're setting out to do, which is awesome. That's your grateful dead Bob drinking your water moment, you know? It is like, oh like, look at that, dude. It's in the hand. It's in the hand. I know, man. That's awesome. So I'm excited for you guys. Um, where can people go to uh what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Like, if we want to drink it and we're in town, we can get it at at different bars and restaurants around Broadway, ACME, Feed and Seed, all the Daddy's Dogs, Gramps, on and on. There's uh stagewater.com has a list of all of the places carrying it, and then we ship direct anywhere in the country, in the world. Um y'all are gonna just keep growing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Yeah, fingers crossed. I know it is fingers crossed. So yeah, dude. No, no, fingers crossed, man. It's gonna happen. Well, I appreciate you. It's gonna happen. It might be like this, but it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah, and that's part of the journey, right? Like there's gonna be aberrations, and we're we're ready for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

But you also have a great team, it sounds like, and great people and great advisors and people that know the space. And I think that's that's like 80% of it to me. The rest is marketing. Yeah, it's like marketing capital, like monster. Yeah, like how did they get into the market? You know, a lot of just free that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

And I mean, talking to people that we've engaged, I mean, the somebody used the term uh beverage as a capital intensive endeavor, which translates that you just kind of light money on fire for marketing, right? Yeah, and I like I loved hearing that phrase, and it also made my stomach sink a little bit like, oh shit, this is this is gonna be, you know, but that I think that's the reality of anything that you're trying to scale, whether it's an you know, an artist, a song, a podcast, like that's part of that game. That's the society that we exist in in America, and we all hope that like something catches on or there's a social moment or blah blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, you just I think if you keep doing it and chugging along, you know, I mean, yeah, it's like I mean, Nashville's the tenure town, right? Because that's what you do. You just keep working and you keep pushing and you keep being a good person and and trying to cherish and and uh hold those relationships that you make along the way with respect, and hopefully that flourishes into opportunity and careers. And I think that that's kind of the approach that we're taking with this. It's like we're just gonna gut it out and keep going. Just keep going, dude. Just try not to light too much money on fire. You might have to.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

You might have to, but it's your re-roi and belief in it. Yeah. Um winners never quit and quitters never win. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

It's been great having you on.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Before you hop on your flight to Canada. Yeah. Uh hope you have a so you'll be at uh event tonight or tomorrow. Tomorrow, yep. Dirts's Luke Combs.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Yep. Dirts, Dirts' Direct Support. Direct support for Luke Combs in Toronto for two nights. So last weekend, yeah, Rogers Stadium. Um, last weekend with those guys. So kind of sad, man. Yeah, it's been good. It's been a good tour, though. So that is sad. But I'm stoked for this.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

I appreciate it. All right, man. Yeah, well, I guess we'll all just stay posted for our next episode. Perfect. When you come back, I love it. I need to get into the company now. I don't have any money to, but I need to. I need some equity.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

We can figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

All right. Thanks, bro. Thanks, man.