CYBR.HAK.CAST

CYBR.HAK.CAST Episode 10: Chris Glanden

• CYBR.SEC.Media • Season 2 • Episode 10

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0:00 | 34:13

In this episode of CYBR.HAK.CAST, hosts Michael Farnum and Phil Wylie talk with Chris Glanden, founder and CEO of Barcode and co-founder of the Cyber Circus Network, about his unconventional path into cybersecurity, his passion for storytelling, and the creative projects he’s bringing to the industry. Glanden discusses how storytelling can help explain cybersecurity issues to broader audiences through documentaries and narrative podcasts, including his films about AI and transhumanist hacker Len Noe. Glanden also introduces GhostLine, a privacy-focused platform that anonymizes video and voice in real time for interviews, journalists, and whistleblowers, and previews his new narrative podcast series “Fallout,” which dramatizes real incidents where AI systems fail and examines their human consequences.

SHOW NOTES:

Things Mentioned:

EPISODE 10 Timestamps:

5:30 – 10:30 | Chris Glanden’s background and origin story
Glanden describes starting in film school before leaving to support his family, entering IT through a cable company support job, and eventually building a career in technology and cybersecurity.

10:30 – 15:30 | Transition from IT into cybersecurity
After years in IT support roles, Glanden transitions into security around 2012 after joining a newly formed security team at a bank and attending Hacker Halted, where he becomes immersed in hacker culture.

15:30 – 18:30 | Consulting career and launching Barcode podcast
Glanden moves into cybersecurity consulting before launching the Barcode podcast during COVID-19, taking advantage of remote accessibility to interview major security figures.

18:30 – 21:30 | Cybersecurity career path discussion
The hosts discuss the importance of IT experience before entering cybersecurity, emphasizing that security roles typically require foundational technology knowledge.

21:30 – 29:00 | Documentary filmmaking and storytelling in cybersecurity
Glanden explains his interest in filmmaking, including his documentary on AI weaponization and his latest documentary about transhumanist hacker Len Noe.

29:00 – 31:00 | Film festival screenings and documentary distribution
The documentary has been screened at Black Hat, Hacker Halted

SPEAKER_01

So, welcome to another episode of Cyber Hackcast. I'm joined once again by my BBFF, Michael Farnum.

SPEAKER_02

Best bald friend forever. Just in case you don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for those that didn't are just learning about this, uh Sam is Michael's BFF, so I'm his BBFF.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. How are you doing, Phil? Good to see you, man. Good.

SPEAKER_01

How are you? Good to see you.

SPEAKER_02

I'm good. I'm good. This is episode 10, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, that's amazing. Double digital. Really excited to have Chris Glandin join in today. Not only is he one of our friends and uh cyber security professionals, he's also a podcaster and does a lot of awesome content creation. Welcome to the show, Chris.

SPEAKER_03

Hey Philip. Hey, Michael, thanks for having me. It's uh it's an honor to be on.

SPEAKER_01

More detail about him, but we'll get into his his story later on. But Chris is the CEO and founder of Barcode Security, which he does consulting as well as content creation. He's also the co-founder of the Cyber Circus Network, which is a collaboration with Cyber Distortion Podcast, Barcode, and Len Nose new project, the uh what is this? Uh skill chain skill chain radio. Yeah. And so it's kind of a combination of those, and uh does some really cool live events and some been doing recently some screenings for Len Nose documentary, which Chris created.

SPEAKER_02

That's a cool documentary. And he came down last year to the last HughSecCon, now CybersecCon, to do some recording too in our uh podcast room. That was really cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and he will be joining us at CyberHatCon, and he's one of one of our media partners for CyberHatCon in the CyberSec community. So speaking of cyber cyberhatcon, cyberhatcon is coming up on May 27th. The call for papers in villages opens April 6th through 24th. And tickets are on sale now, and I believe we still have some spaces for sponsors. So if you want to be able to connect with the local Dallas community, the practitioner community, this is a good opportunity. Because one of the things I was just thinking about the other day is any of these companies that are looking for, you know, bug bounty companies or even companies that do some of this pen test as a service that are looking for recruits, this is a good place to do that because there's really no other conference that caters to that specific audience in this area. And we've got a huge uh hacker and practitioner cybersecurity scene here in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, it's strong. Uh last time we went to DFW, besides DFW, I mean, that's not a massive conference, but it was a strong community. Uh really, I mean, I'm I'm in Houston, but I really admire the Dallas community up there. Been going up there for a long time, know a lot of the folks, so I'm excited about doing that.

SPEAKER_01

And also to add to it, we've got some amazing keynotes. So Jason Haddock's is our opening keynote and Wirefall, aka Dustin Dykes, is our closing keynote. He's the founder of Dallas Hackers Association and has really done a lot to help the local hacker community. Prior to Dallas Hackers Association, it was kind of not very well known. And, you know, I've been in the Dallas area for a while, and through Dallas Hackers Association, I found out about our local DEF CON group, DC 2 and 4, which I wasn't aware of, as well as our local uh 2600 uh club. So wasn't aware of those. So he's really brought a lot of visibility and very inclusive to bringing people in to communities based off of Austin Hackers Association, which you know, when you go there, you have to speak your second time. And Wirefall has really built an inclusive environment because some people aren't comfortable speaking at a cybersecurity meetup. And so it's he's kind of made this a little more friendly towards uh new folks and and veterans alike.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm excited to have that too, because uh we interviewed Wirefall not too long ago on one of these, and he talked about the um improv stuff that he's done, which I think is neat, like taking improv classes and stuff to help him speak better at uh conferences stuff. I'm really excited. I think he's gonna be talking about some of that in his talks.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's really cool to see what the improv stuff's done for him too. And then for people listening, he's not like a new person in this industry, he's like one of those pen testers. He's been doing this for over 20, some odd over 26 years, 27 years, and he's had to speak in front of clients and speak at conferences, and just it's kind of a testament of what improv can do. You know, I I used Toastmasters years ago and helped me. And so, improv, I mean, this was taking someone that knew how to speak and and just kind of helping take them to the next level where he's super and enjoys it now. So it looks like it's time for a break.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, jump over and do a little break.

SPEAKER_01

So, welcome back today. We're joined by Chris Glandon, as we mentioned earlier, the co-founder of the Cyber Circus Network, founder of Ghostline, founder and CEO of Barcode, the podcast, and the consulting company. So, one of the unique things about Chris, he's not only a podcaster, he's actually created some documentaries and actually two documentaries and did a great job. I fortunately got to see both of those documentaries in Vegas. And the first one he did was pretty amazing. But by the time he got on Lynn's documentary, it was like another level up, it was really great. And it's really cool to see people inspired that got into cybersecurity doing security, but then kind of really leveraged that creative mind to be able to create educational content based on his experience and and using that creativity because a lot of us don't go to school for that type of stuff. You see, a lot of folks that go to school to do documentaries, to do journalism and stuff. But Chris has kind of been self-taught on this and has done an amazing job.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks, Phil. Uh, I actually did go to school for film. Okay. Not very long, though. So when I got out of high school, that was what I went to school for. Um, I was only there for about a year. So I can't say, you know, the skill set that I um developed was through that. But I've always had a passion for film. And I think that after I got into IT, where I realized, you know, I could make money in this profession, I was in IT for a long time, got into security uh in around 2010, and then just started realizing how many stories come out of the security world and how many stories are actually real stories that people should. And so it just caught up to me about five years ago. And we can get into sort of the evolution there, but you know, I had my podcast and I just wanted to take that storytelling element to the next level and um start focusing on putting out films that are basically stories that are spawned from within cyber.

SPEAKER_01

So before we get too far into that subject, why don't you share your your background, your origin story with our guests to kind of get a better idea of where you started up until what you're doing?

SPEAKER_03

For sure. So um, like I said, I started out in in IT. So right out of high school, um, I went to school for film. I had my uh my oldest child when I was 20. So at that point in time, I realized I need to go into the workforce. I need I need to be able to provide. And so I ended up leaving school and fell into the tech world. Technology was always something that I was interested in, but I just happened to get a uh a support role at a local cable company providing cable support. And at that time, I was making$11.52 an hour. And I was like, I felt like I made it at that point because I was done. And so um and now my kid is working at Chick-fil-A making$18 an hour. It's come a long way. It's come a long way. So was working there, that local cable company eventually got acquired by Comcast maybe a year later, and we're talking about late 90s, early 2000s. So I think they got acquired in 2001. I was still still there doing support, and just for that specific time in technology, if you think back around that 2001, 02 timeframe, you had HD TV, you had video on demand, you had high speed broadband service. So it was a very like pivotal moment in technology during that time. And I think I was blessed by getting that role to be able to provide for my family, but it also just helped me understand what my career trajectory was going to be. Cause when I started getting involved with technology there, it was like, okay, I'm I could get into this, like I could really like doing this for a living. So um fast forward, uh, stayed in the IT realm for quite a bit. Then I pivoted from the cable side more into um IT help desk, desktop support. That was around the mid 2000s. Stayed in an IT support role until 2012. 2012 is the year that I really refocused my energy into cyber. 2012 was a uh I had heard of security in the past. I had worked with security folks. They had always shown me things that I was like, man, this is really cool. I didn't even consider it to be a job. I was like, how are you doing this and getting paid for it? And um, so I was really intrigued by the security industry. And so in 2012, uh, a good friend of mine who was running the pen testing group for a uh a Fortune 500 financial institution, he ended up legal to a local bank in Delaware, which is where I live, and said, I know that you're interested in security. Why don't you come over? You can sort of be, you know, my first level one analyst. This is a brand new team that he was building out. So of course I took him up on that. And having that iTech mean coming in really helped, but I was new to security. And so um in security for about a week, this was 2012, 20 early 2013, they sent me to uh hacker halted that next year in 2013. So hacker halted, I'm still less than a year into security. They sent me for my CEH version three, I think it was at the time, um, week-long boot camp. And I think that specific conference was I think the the moment in time where I said, this is really what I want to do, because I got to not only understand sort of the security perspective, but also see the security culture. And that's where like the security culture and the security community really made an impression on me. And so from there, you know, I stayed at that role for a while, went over, started leading some teams in the healthcare sector and security, um, and kind of just developed and built on my career from there. I ultimately landed in consulting um around the 2017, 2018 timeframe, um, which was an entirely different world for me because I came up through corporate. So getting into consulting really propelled me forward in terms of learning new regulatory aspects, learning new, learning a new industry. So I worked in healthcare, so I had to learn HIPAA, I had to learn um medical device security, I had to learn all these new technologies. Um, and then you know, the next week I would be working in a manufacturing firm, helping them with a security risk assessment. So, like I really enjoyed the pace and it was and I really enjoyed learning. So um, when I got into consulting, um, that that I felt fit my pace better. And so worked in consulting, worked for a major VAR here in the Mid-Atlantic for a long time. And then in uh 2020, COVID hit, I started a podcast. And we can get more into that if you'd like, but I started a podcast because I've always wanted to start a podcast, and I've never really had the accessibility to reach people that were thought leaders pre-COVID. Everyone was talking on site at conferences, things like that. And so when COVID hit, as bad as it was for everybody, I sort of took advantage of the fact that there were thought leaders more accessible to me. So I started reaching out to like in my mind, people that would never even respond to an email. And I was starting to get responses from emails. I was like, hey man, will you come on the show? You want to come on the show? And sort of just took off from there. I was learning a lot. I was um using that creative outlet that I feel like I've always had and that I had a passion for. Um, and it really just clicked. Oh, and by the time I went to the firm that I was working for at the time, I said, Hey, I want to start this podcast. Are you in? And they had zero interest. So that could have, I think it worked out better for me in the long run if they had no interest.

SPEAKER_02

What a story. Bill and I can both relate to that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, they were like, Oh, yeah, we have no interest. I don't think podcasts are going anywhere because we're in COVID, nobody's on the train anymore. They're not going to listen to it. I'm like, Well, I'll just, you know, I'll do it myself. And so, um, so I really started that was when I really started building the barcode brand was through the podcast. And again, I was reaching out to like Bruce Knott, Troy Hunt, like all of these like like household names that were coming back to me and coming on the show, like within my first 10 episodes. And I'm like, all right, well, I can't stop now. So, like that alone really helped me go keep moving forward. So established the brand in 2022, I believe it was. I ended up leaving my job. I just took a leap of faith and said, Look, I understand the business of running a consulting firm because I was on that side of things. I was an engineer and architect, but I understood the business to an extent. And I felt like I had built up some level of credibility and trust within the industry through the podcast that I could leverage that for some of the marketing that I wanted to do for barcode. So 2020 hit. I went all in on barcode. And since then it's just it's just been through a series of evolutions, um, more so on the content side, but we can we can definitely get into that. But um, more or less, that's that's my evolution.

SPEAKER_02

I love the story from the side of it. I a lot of us did that same thing, came up, you know. I came up as building computers in like 96 or 94, I guess, uh is when I kind of started, and you know, then started running cable and then started doing networks and then move on and on and on, and then did networking and did all the things. And it it lines up with, and I've said this a few times, I don't know if I've said it on here, but I've been accused of uh of kind of gatekeeping cybersecurity a little bit because I'm like, you know, cybersecurity has entry-level jobs, it is not an entry-level career. Like you can't come right out and do cyber if you don't have some of that ancillary experience. And some people get tired of me saying it, but I say it in my user groups, and I've said it, and I've had a CIO back me up on that just uh earlier this week when I was in a panel, and she says the same things to her young people who are coming in and intern and want to get into cyber. And she's like, You need to start in IT, you don't you need to learn these things. And it's I I just again, you know, not old man get off my lawn, but a little bit of old man get off my lawn. It's like, guys, y'all have got to be ready to do these other jobs. You can't come into this just expecting to be Mr. Ms. Cyber right out of the gates and not have any other experience. So the anecdotal evidence is starting to pile up so much just over the years, um, that I I believe that that is starting to get statistically relevant. So you can't you can't do it. You just I mean, you you can. I know people who have gone into it, but when I've got master's degree students who can't find a job, you know, master's degree in cybersecurity, it's like, okay, maybe the colleges weren't exactly honest with you. That degree is gonna get you something. Like, not we partner with a lot of them, but it's like you still need some of that experience. So I'll step off that soapbox a little bit, Chris. But I just love hearing hearing that story that that is is definitely something that is needed is that ancillary experience.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm I'm with you, I agree with that that you do need some of that gatekeeping because you can't there's certain aspects that you can't teach in a cybersecurity curriculum. Yeah, um, and we are living testaments to that because there was no cybersecurity curriculum. And so coming in, especially from the IT support side, you have to have that that problem-solving skill embedded in you, like that tenacity to be able to get to where you want to get to. So, yeah, I I completely agree with you, and anybody that wants to argue that point can um can call me too, because I'll I'll definitely uh I'll definitely let them know it's yeah, it definitely helps.

SPEAKER_02

I thought we were about to have to bleep something. I wasn't sure what you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, almost called myself. You can just beep, yeah. You I mean you could put the beep in there anyway.

SPEAKER_02

It might even be I don't know. We're you know, we had one, we recorded one yesterday with Cyber Sitecast and Rob Lee let off a couple of ones. That's gonna be interesting to hear the final version of that one. But I was with it, I was here for it.

SPEAKER_01

So, yeah, we kind of mentioned that Chris has done some documentaries, so uh why don't we discuss your latest documentary, the one you did with Len No.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, um, yeah, thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about that. It's uh again, it's it was really a passion project. So, like you had mentioned before, I just came off my first documentary, which was called Inhuman, which was really around the weaponization of AI. The reason I do these documentaries also is because number one, it's it's really interesting to me. But number two is I want to sort of cinematically portray the security issues that are happening in the world today to an audience that is not within the industry, someone that can watch this like they would turn on Netflix and watch a show that they have zero idea about the subject, but be able to be pulled in and you know, just get their their mind going, get them thinking about what's possible and to be able to translate, you know, our world to theirs. So I did um Inhuman and I was looking for my next project. I wanted to do another film, I wanted to do a full feature documentary. And I have I heard about Len through, I believe it was Hutch at the time because they had the cyber cognition podcast going at the time. And I remember meeting him at Black Hat 2024, I guess it was. Uh he had come to an event that I was having during Black Hat. I have it every year called Barcode at Barcode, and uh met Len there. And um I said, I've heard about your your um, I heard about your evolution um as a transhumanist. It's very intriguing to me. It's it's I've never met, and his story was just one that I've never heard before. And then when I met Len as a person, he's like a a person like I've never met before. Um, and if you know Len, and if not, you need to know Len. But I got to talking to him and immediately within 20 minutes of our conversation, I said, this is the story that I need to do next and I need to focus on and talk to Len about it. He gave me his blessing. I think it really helped that I approached him with the story versus someone else because he saw the he saw the the value in having this story be released through the cyber channel versus somebody else that would take his story and maybe reproduce it in a way that wasn't true. Truth was always important to both of us with this story and this documentary. So he gave me his blessing. This was in August, and I think we started shooting in December of that year. So he came up, he was speaking at B Sides Philadelphia. I met him up there, got to do some B-roll at B Side Philly. Um, next day we did a full like 12-hour session of recording interviews. He had his dad drive into Philly from Michigan, his brother too. And so, like, we did a full day of interviews that day. Then I think two, three months later, I flew to Austin. We did another two to three days of straight shooting then, and that was it. I think we did the entire documentary in about six days, six or seven days of filming with my cinematographer. And so, for those that don't know Len, I'm I'm gonna let you watch the documentary, and I don't want to tell you too much, but he's he's considered to be the world's first augmented ethical hacker, uh, slash writer, slash speaker, slash just someone with a very, very um path in life. And what really drew me into that story was not only the the uh the technology transformation, but I think his personal transformation that sort of ran in parallel. And you kind of see this story that plays out that just shows him evolving as as a person, um, his his historic past into a um you know worldwide phenomenon speaker, privacy security advocate now. And I think it's a story for the security community, but uh it's told in a way where it's a story for as a whole in terms of how we can all transition and whether that's as a person or whether that's as we're seeing now from man to machine. So edited by uh Kevin Pentecost, I want to shout out Kevin uh from the uh cyber distortion podcast, also part of the Cyber Circus Network. Very lucky to have it accepted into three film festivals thus far. We've privately screened it at over 10 locations now. Uh, we did Black Hat was the premiere, we did Hacker Halted in the fall. And Michael, you had alluded you were at the premiere in Texas a few months ago, so that was a really fun one.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we did it down at um our user group for a Christmas party too, down in Houston. Yes, yes. That was an adventure because of the uh trying to convert the damn file to uh format of that theater and Sonic and Lynn out there stressing out, and Lynn going out to the pizza joint across the street and connecting to their Wi-Fi. So you should I didn't hear that. That was oh gosh, yes. Lynn, we were all stressing because everybody's sitting in the room, pretty full theater, and everybody's like, hmm, we're like, okay, I guess I'm gonna sing some uh sing some show tunes or something, keep people entertained. It was a lot of fun, it never fails. Yeah, it's always something, but we got it figured out.

SPEAKER_03

Sonic and Sonic and Lynn did a good job. So yeah, yeah. Sonic Sonic's in the uh in the documentary too. Sonic's uh that's the first time I met Sonic was when I interviewed him in Austin. So he's got IMDB credits, that's what I tease him about.

SPEAKER_02

Is IMDb? Yep, yep, yep. He's a stupid.

SPEAKER_03

And so yeah, it's it's been um it's been really um well accepted. I think we're all sort of happy with the uh the outcome of it. Yesterday I spoke to a um a production agency. This is like breaking news. I don't think many people have heard this yet, and there's nothing really set yet, but they're they have interest in helping us seek out some distribution or getting it over to like a streaming platform. So that's exciting, you know. That's what I would love to be able to see. And and that's really why we haven't put it out publicly yet, is because we do have some NDAs in place with these film festivals and things like that. So hopefully soon I'll be able to get it a link posted to get folks to watch it. But if we can get it to a streaming platform, even better. Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah, but no, it's been it's been really it's been really good. I've learned a lot along the way, and uh yeah, we're gonna have some more screenings, I think. And once I know where those are, I'll be posting them online.

SPEAKER_02

But uh at this point, I'm assuming if people are interested in screening it too, they just I mean, we can put oh yeah, links to to you guys in the show notes or whatever so they can reach out to you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that would be great. We're doing uh we'll do private screenings. We've done B Sides Philly, we're doing um we've done a couple other conferences. So if you've run a conference and just want to have something different, people love screening documentaries and movies, especially when you know the the person who's in the film uh will do a QA afterwards, um, which Len has has graciously Into different areas to do that. So, but yeah, hit us up if you want to do a screening, private screening. Would love to be able to get that in your hands.

SPEAKER_02

And a little pro tip if Lynn is there, he probably will have whistle whistle pig whiskey with us. Yes, yes. I am not a bourbon guy, but I love whistle pigs. I may have sampled some at the Dallas screening. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think I sampled some too. It was good. It was really good. And neat too.

SPEAKER_03

Not nothing in it, just neat, straight up. It was good. Yeah. I think that's a requirement when you watch a documentary that whistle pig is included. Absolutely. It's part of the contract.

SPEAKER_01

He needs to get them as a sponsor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That would be great stuff.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, just to kind of shift topics a little bit, you just recently came out with Ghostline uh application. If you wouldn't mind sharing what Ghostline is and the inspiration behind that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, Ghostline's exciting. It's relatively new as well. So Ghostline is um is an app that I created that anonymizes both video and voices of individuals who are being interviewed in real time. And so as a security, I have come across potential guests or had conversations with people that would want to come on to the show and remain anonymous, even to me. And so that was always a challenge. That was not an easy problem to solve because there was really no riverside plug-in that allows that to happen, right? Or any type of switch on Zoom that would anonymize face and voice. So I wasn't able to find something to leverage for these specific use cases, especially with something privacy built in, right? A lot of that you could do in post, but still, you know who they are, they know who you are. And then it's just a lot of work on the back end. So I had this conversation with a good friend of mine, Zach Davis, one day. We went out to lunch and we had pizza and we're sitting there talking about it. And he was like, Man, like, wouldn't it be cool to do this anonymization type hacker video? And I was like, Yeah, I was like, I thought about that before. I've actually had that opportunity, but was never able to do it. And then we just started talking, and he was like, Well, why don't you um why don't you just build it? And so I had worked with Claude Code in the past, and so with the power of Claude Code, I was able to have an MVP of this idea spun up in about 72 hours. I have zero programming experience, zero development experience, but I have experience with coming up with ideas, and I think Claude Code just helped me develop an MVP pretty quickly in to whereas I wouldn't have not been able to do that a year ago. And so after spinning up the MVP, I spent I think the next week just going over it, refining it, testing it. Um, I probably called 10 pen testers and red team experts within my crew to just try to poke holes in it because that's not my area of expertise. So I had this MVP where I was like, I need to make this, you know, secure. This is a secure and privacy focused platform. I need to make sure that this is just ironclad. And so without getting too technical, it's really easy to use. Basically, it allows a host to go to a website. It's ghostline digital is the URL. Ghostline.com was taken for some reason. I didn't want to pay nine million dollars to get it. So ghostline.digital, they spin up a private room. Uh, they're given a code, and then they send that code to the guest. That code establishes a secure connection, a single connection. So if a third person tries to join, they won't be able to. They send that code to the guest, the guest connects to that room, but before they connect, they have some settings in front of them that allow multiple obfuscation options to choose from. So you can choose from the type of video masking that you want. So you have blur, you have silhouette, and you have pixelation. And each of those has a slider so to sort of adjust the level of masking. Then you have audio, so you have like standard masking, or you have like super hacker masking. I called it. It's like matrix mode, it's make matrix mode, it's the anonymous voice using an anonymous voice filter. I just want to go play with it and record some crazy crap. It's super filtered, but the audio and the video both flow directly using the browser only, so it uses web RTC, and all calls use web RTC's built-in encryption. So no media ever is unencrypted in transit, only the anonymized version is sent. So this is all no, I mean this is free right now, or what's this is free. Yep, yep, this is free. I'm gonna keep it free for as long as I can. Talk to folks that want to possibly bring it in as an enterprise level where you know, if they're running a podcast, that they can put their branding on it or um you know, adjust it to their to their liking. So I am talking to folks about that, but to to my knowledge, there will always be a free version because I'm a privacy advocate and I think that we need this in certain cases.

SPEAKER_02

And so um I love it. I love the idea. I will so what say when I was trying to find it at first, I looked up Ghostline to app. I was like, Oh, that's gotta be a that's a tattoo app.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02

It's actually pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's version 2.1. That's what I'm bringing to 2.1 is the uh encrypted tattoo. Yeah, nice. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

No, I was like, whoa, this is I was like, wait a minute, this is tattoos. What this is no, this is awesome, dude. I really like that. It's definitely needed. I mean, especially in today's like just crazy world of geopolitics stuff. I mean, if uh, you know, I know that journalists and stuff have some tools that they use, but it's generally very, you know, like enterprise level type stuff, and it kind of doesn't leave it open to the general podcaster types, content creators, and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03

So this is so I started out as having it as the podcast use case, like that was my personal use case. But then, you know, as I started building, I'm like, yeah, journalists who interview whistleblowers that whistleblowers don't want to be identified, right? Another use case could be therapists. You know, if a therapist wants to interview a patient and that patient is concerned with exposure, they don't want to speak candidly because they don't care if it's a therapist or not, they don't want to know, they don't want to be known who it is. Lawyers, law enforcement, just think of anonymous tip lines, right? If you want to do an audio or a video tip line, you can call in without fear of anyone you know identifying you or way that witnesses could speak out. So there's so many different use cases now that um I could lean into. I I really right now, I think the main goal for me is to get users on the platform, right? I need to be able to test this against as many people as I can, um, not only for the infrastructure, but also for the use cases and and who's really going to lean into this more and who's going to benefit from it. And I just don't have much visibility into that now. I know it works for my case, but again, I want to get the lawyers using it. I want to get the you know other podcasters. So for allowing me to come on your platform and just talk about it is means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_02

And you know, I hope full disclosure, they are not a sponsor.

SPEAKER_03

Not a sponsor.

SPEAKER_02

We're just we just think it's cool.

SPEAKER_03

So thank you guys. And and one thing I didn't mention was it is an interview platform, so the host can video record the session. So they are able to record the session, and you can do, I think I have it set up now. You can either record a single screen, either the host or the guest, or you can also do a split screen, um, which would kind of look like a Zoom downloaded video or a uh Riverside downloaded video. And then you can also, just about a week ago, we added HTML transcripts. So you can download the actual transcript of the dialogue, and it'll also give you some key points and show notes and things like that. So we're still evolving. And again, back to the users, just getting people on the platform to you know feed us information on what they feel could be more beneficial. And just um, yeah, I I hope I hope it continues to benefit those and and we continue to evolve it. Very cool, very cool.

SPEAKER_01

We got one last uh topic here is you've got a new series that's coming out, podcast series.

SPEAKER_03

Job yesterday, episode number one. I don't know how I have time for this, Philip. I really don't. It's just uh it's embedded in me to get content pushed, and so I make it happen. But this is a fun one because I've been running barcode for about six years now. Barcode, if you're not not familiar with my podcast, it's a it's an interview-based podcast, much like this. You get to meet really cool people, but I always wanted to do a like a narrative style of show. So I guess it was about a little less than a year ago, I started coming up with the concept which uh eventually became Fallout. And what it is is that it takes real documented stories from a multiple or a multitude of different resources, and it's when AI fails or AI doesn't act or behave in the way that it's intended to behave. There's a website out there called AI Incident Database. If you go check out that website, it's basically documented stories of these types of things. Another source that I like reading is futurism. So futurism documents these types of things. So the results of these stories typically are not good, right? It could be a fatality, it could be just someone really just questioning ethics, right? So there's there's all these different outcomes. But what's different about the podcast is I play that out in a narrative form. I kind of expand what that news story was. I fictionalize the names, I fictionalize the places, and I try to focus on the impact of the people involved. You know, we tend to read these articles and and understand these risks from like a surface layer, but we often don't peel back that layer, that that initial layer and see like the impact to people and the impact to society that you know doesn't get written about. And to me, that's that's the real failure, right? And so I try to base all of these episodes on a single incident that I link to in the episode notes. So my episode's 25 minutes, you know. And if you go to the show notes, it'll say, based on this story, you click on that, it'll take you to, you know, the BBC article that had the real story to it. So listeners can sort of hear my story, which is very narrative based. There's sound effects, there's music, there's voices. I mean, the whole nine. And then you can actually go see and see, oh man, this is this is like the true story it was based on. So that's the whole meaning of Fallout. You know, I just uh we'll see where it goes. I mean, there's so many stories out there that I can pull from that I don't know how long or how involved I'm gonna take this, but for right now, I'm just I'm trying to again something different and trying to get something out to the masses to sort of see you know the risks of of AI at this point in time. Looking forward to that one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, very cool. So thanks for joining us today. We have to unfortunately wrap it up. This has been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_03

So absolutely, thank you guys for having me. I love the show and um really look forward to seeing you guys at at Cyber HackCon. Yep. And uh yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thanks for being our guest.

SPEAKER_03

Appreciate it, man.

SPEAKER_01

So before we before we wrap it up, we want to thank our media partners, Barcode, Cyber Distortion, and Killchain Radio. So thanks for your support, guys.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, love having the the crew, Chris included. Yep, very cool. All right.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thanks for watching.

SPEAKER_02

We'll have patchy tattoos, right? Oh, yeah, we need to do that. I'm sure uh I'm sure Lauren can come up with a cool logo for us. Okay. Wait till you see our uh some of the stuff we're coming up with, the cyber stuff. Um I'm pretty excited about fun gorilla marketing type stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, cool. All right. That's what you need is cyberhatcon. Maybe you just do like a you get like a tattoo corner. You can just do that. Love it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thanks. Thanks everyone for joining. And uh we hope to see you at Cyber HackCon and see you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks everybody.

SPEAKER_00

This has been a Cybersec Media production. CyberHackCast is hosted by Michael Farnum and Philip Wiley, with production and editing by Lauren Andris. Our music is by Kike Gutz. The views and opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent. This show is for informational purposes only and does not render or offer Twinder personalized advice. Subscribe now so you never miss an episode. You can find all of our podcasts, articles, blogs, and conference talks on cybersecmedia.com. That's cyberwithout the e. And follow cybersecmedia on LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and Facebook at Cybersec Media. You can keep up with CyberHatcon by following us on LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and Facebook at CybersecCon. And you can learn more about CyberHackCon or by tickets at cyberhackcon.com.