We Don't Care About Their Bad Reputations

The boys give some much needed love to movies that didn't get enough in years gone by

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello, movie lovers. It's after midnight and you're listening to Up All Night Cinema with Wade and Adrian on KNRR, not really radio. And now here are the boys.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

Hey, did somebody step on a duck? What do you think of my danger field impression? I've been working on that all day. Hey, tell the chef this is low-grade dog food. My steak still has places where the jockey was hitting it. That's pretty good. Get no respect.

SPEAKER_06 0:34

You're you're saving that for the for today's episode, huh?

SPEAKER_04 0:37

I was. I was warming that up for you all day. I was like, oh, I'm gonna do a Rodney Dangerfield impression.

SPEAKER_06 0:43

That's very good.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Yeah. No nobody listening to this will have any idea who the fuck that is, but you know.

SPEAKER_06 0:49

Um I think I did the uh Walter Cronkite Bruce Almighty one, did I, on another episode, or did I just do it for you off the air?

SPEAKER_04 0:57

No, you did it for the episode. We got that. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:00

I think that's the only that's I think that's the only one I probably could say that I'm pretty good at.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

I I feel like I could do rot I would never do an impression of anyone else, but Rodney Dangerfield seems like you know, somebody that you can get away with doing. You know, you just kind of kind of pull on your collar a little bit and go, ooh, ooh. Then you just say outlandish shit. Oh, you're a good looking lady. Oh, you must have really been something when there was elect before there was electricity. Yeah. Alright, so what you've been watching?

SPEAKER_06 1:30

You said you were watching something when uh when we were trying to get going on this, or uh yes, I watched Train Dreams.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Yeah. I'm gonna have to watch that too. You just you just informed me Eddington was on HBO.

SPEAKER_06 1:46

I did. That's I was debating between I was debating between those two, but because I only had about two hours, I watched Train Dreams because it's only like an hour and 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Yeah. Yeah, Eddington's like two and a half hours, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:00

Yeah, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Yeah. That's a commitment.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

It's a commitment.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

How was Train Dreams?

SPEAKER_06 2:06

I thought it was really good. Yeah, but it's really good. It's such a sad movie though.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Oh, don't tell me that.

SPEAKER_06 2:14

But it's but it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

It looks like a beautiful movie.

SPEAKER_06 2:19

Yeah. Um, it's I hadn't seen a movie like that this year, maybe, in terms of for a few different reasons. Uh one, the uh cinematographer actually filmed it in the aspect ratio of 320. Okay. So it's essentially a like a more vertical representation of the movie. So you're gonna have the black boxes on the left and right side. Almost not it's not quite like a 4-3 ratio, but it's it's yeah, it's a 320 ratio. And so um I was looking up like why he decided to do that, and it's because the film is about a logger and it takes place in like the 20s era, um, and a lot of the photographs that they have from that era that are about forestry and the loggers and things like that, and when they were building railroads and all that, um, they look like that. It's that they're in those dimensions. So he wanted to kind of give it a feel like you were in a different time era by filming it in that aspect ratio. So I thought that was really unique. I actually really enjoyed it. It's a beautiful movie to look at. I mean, the scenery's amazing, the way it's shot, the the color grading, the way he sets the cameras with the character interactions. And you know, something I really, really enjoyed about the movie were how the B characters were written into the script.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Which is pretty rare nowadays. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 3:58

Yeah, and so, you know, when I was for one, the movie's narrated by Will Patton.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

Ooh, I like Will Patton. I haven't seen him in a while.

SPEAKER_06 4:07

Yeah, he's not in the movie, but he narrates Joel Edgerton's entire uh basically life arc story, you know, his trajectory from when he's a boy to, you know, the rest of his life. So, I mean, that was really, really, really cool because his voice brings a sense of peace despite all the chaos going on in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Well, he's got a very calm tone and he's got a very it it feels timeless. Like it feels like a voice that you would hear from a documentary about the 1920s.

SPEAKER_06 4:40

It's perfect. Um, I think Joel Ederson will probably get some Oscar Oscar buzz for his role. Uh at least he should. And um Felicity Jones was great for the time she was in the movie, and so was Carrie Condon. She was fantastic. Um, but I think for me the guy who stole the show was William H. Macy and the parts he's in.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

William H. Macy always steals the show.

SPEAKER_06 5:05

You just forget it's him. That's how much he's in his character. I mean, you you you you don't see William H. Macy. It's it's like some other guy.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I love William H. Macy. I feel like that was a weird period of time where he was on shameless because he was really only doing that show, and it was like such a long time.

SPEAKER_06 5:25

Yeah. It was like 10 years or something.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Yeah, 10 or 12 years. And that's unfortunate because he was so good.

SPEAKER_06 5:33

Yeah, he's very good.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Now, me personally, I have a I am both a fan of and not a fan of Joel Edgerton.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

Yeah, I I I I get that. Um, I think this is one of those movies where I think you will enjoy his part. It's a lot of non-verbal acting on his part.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

I appreciate that too when when you can get away with doing that.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

Uh, I think it he does it very well. I think it's probably one of his better roles he's done, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:06

I think it was probably challenging for him, and I think it brought the best out of him because he really does do a fabulous job with like mixing his uncertainty with his grief and his sadness and his happiness and all these different emotions with very little words through the entire film. And I thought that was really good. Going back to what I was talking about, the B characters, though, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

I was I was just gonna say Joel Edgerton has a fantastic face.

SPEAKER_06 6:37

Oh, yeah, yeah, amazing face.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Which is something you don't get a lot in Hollywood, like they want you to be and and he's not a bad-looking guy, so I don't want to make it sound like if he ever hears this, oh, this guy's calling him ugly. But, you know, he's not Hollywood pretty. You know, he he looks like a guy.

SPEAKER_06 6:55

No, this is uh in my opinion, this was a perfect casting for him in this movie, especially with his scruffy beard and stuff like that. It it I think it's he fits the the wardrobe perfectly. So whoever did the wardrobe for this movie did a great job. Um But going back to what I was talking about, the characters, I was like, you know what? I I'm unfamiliar with this director, Clint Bentley.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 7:20

He I don't know him either. He directed and co-wrote Train Dreams. It's adapted from a novella. But when I looked at him, he hasn't really done much, but the other thing he did do was Sing Sing.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Okay, I saw and seen that. That was the uh Coleman Domingo.

SPEAKER_06 7:36

Yeah, he he co-wrote SingSing, if I'm not mistaken. Um and I loved that movie. That was probably one of my favorite movies of last year. Yeah. That was one you told me I needed to catch at the time. And that's I think also on HBO. But that movie also probably does one of the best jobs of valuing B characters because there's so many of them that I've seen in recent years, to be honest with you. It it does a great job at highlighting these individuals. And the beautiful part about Sing Sing is that a lot of the inmates that are portrayed in Sing Sing are actually the inmates that are actually prisoners. Yes. Oh, that's interesting. It's I kind of ruined that for you probably because they when they go through the credits at the end of the movie and they go, you know, such and such playing himself, and it comes up like 12 times.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Well, yeah, but that's I mean, that's not necessarily a spoiler. It's not you're like, oh, you know, Luke is Darth Vader's son, you know, before I've seen the movie, you know.

SPEAKER_06 8:48

Yeah, but you wouldn't know that unless you did research about the movie. That's what that's I didn't do any much research when I went to go see it. So I was floored when the credits came on and I was like, these guys are so good. I didn't not to say that, you know, um, but it it goes to show you the testament of actually the art form rehabilitation that they have in in prisons is actually doing something because I had no idea these guys were not actors or actresses. That's awesome. You know? I it it was brilliant. Um and so yeah, um so Clint Bentley, he did another movie where he wrote and directed it called Jockey. Um I haven't seen that, but it it got really good reviews. But it has uh I think Clifton Collins Jr. as the lead, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

I did hear about that movie. I I heard yeah, I I had heard about it, but only like once, and then I never heard about it again, and it completely slipped my mind.

SPEAKER_06 9:46

Yeah. And he also uses Clifton Collins Jr. in another one of his movies um in 2016 called Trespecos, but I haven't seen that either.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

I'm glad to see Clifton Collins working, though. I love that guy.

SPEAKER_06 9:59

Yeah. Um so yeah, train Train Dreams I watched, and then yesterday I got to see Rental Family.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Oh, the Brendan Fraser movie.

SPEAKER_06 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

Well, you've got a big smile on your face.

SPEAKER_06 10:10

I'm guessing it was good. I loved that movie, man. I I it's really hard to dislike Brandon Fraser as a person, what first and foremost.

SPEAKER_04 10:19

Yeah. He was a Massino man. How could you not love him?

SPEAKER_06 10:23

Yeah. But Rental Family's this beautiful story told by the director Hikari, which also she hasn't done much. The other thing I really liked of hers was the TV show Beef on Netflix, which was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Yeah, that's on my list now that I got Netflix back.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

Yeah. But um, yeah, it's a story of it it's written and directed in such a beautiful way that tells the story of loneliness. And it's probably a a very real thing in Japan, but I think it's probably a also a very real thing everywhere else.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

And so Yeah, depression, I feel like, is a universal language. Like everyone knows depression.

SPEAKER_06 11:03

Correct. Loneliness. Yeah, and so Brendan Fraser's character picks up this odd job for this company that rents people for life situations. And I don't want to, you know, ruin anything for you or whatnot, but like the wedding date? Kind of, yeah. Sorry. The movie in the the way the movie starts is brilliant. I mean, I want to tell you about it, but I also don't like his first job that he gets.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 11:36

Um uh it's pretty funny. I I are you gonna I assume you're gonna watch it anyways.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

I would like to watch this movie, yeah. I I I'm interested. They they had me from that promo shot of him as the toothpaste. Yeah, you know, where he's wearing the costume and he's supposed to be toothpaste in a commercial.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

Yeah, and that's not the only like pseudo-acting role because he's an actor. He plays an actor.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Well, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:01

You know, but the first his first job as part of this rental agency is the fat American at a Japanese funeral. So he arrives late and he sits down and he walks in late, so like everybody's looking at him, he's such a disgrace, you know, and he's just sitting there and you know, people are crying and all this stuff, and somebody gets up to say like a a eulogy or whatever, and the guy laying in the coffin sits up and kind of like smiles, and he's like a thumbs thumbs up and then lays back down. Oh my god. And Brendan Fraser's like, what the hell is going on here? And then you you come to find out like they staged the entire funeral for this guy because he paid this company to stage a funeral because he he felt like that would be the moment where he felt like he would be most adored. Yeah, and he wanted to feel it. He wanted to feel it, and so that grabs Brendan Fraser's character's attention because Brendan Fraser goes and tries to fit in the little Japanese man's coffin, is and he's having trouble fitting in because he's such a large guy. Yeah. And then the movie just kind of trajectories from there. Um, I laughed, I cried. Um it's it's beautiful. Um, it's also, you know, you know, it packs a punch as well, because it's it's it is a reality because that's what life is like in Japan, I think. And and people, you know, over there, the the culture in Japan is so much different than here. Mental health is very much a you know frowned upon or looked at differently. So people that are depressed or sad or unhappy have to find these alternative ways to find fulfillment in their lives. Uh and so it's a beautiful story done by Hikari um directing that uh really move it's a moving movie, and it's it's really nice to see. Now, I don't obviously it's not I don't think it'll get as much buzz as The Whale did. One, because it's not Brendan Fraser's big movie back, yeah, um, but also because it's not Darren Aronofsky and for a multitude of other reasons. But I'm so glad to see him back in a motion picture movie, and that's another one. The the B characters in this movie, Rental Family, are phenomenal, mostly Japanese actors and actresses, but yeah, they're top-notch, man. Top notch.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Yeah, I I'm just happy to hear it. Sounds like they're starting to bring back the varied casts.

SPEAKER_07 14:43

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

I I like that. I that was a big thing in the 90s, I felt like like all those movies had like little characters, really good character actors in those little parts. Like, um, I'm thinking of um off the top of my head, did you ever see the movie Nothing to Lose with Tim Robbins and Martin Lawrence? Uh yeah, I did actually. Um it was an okay movie, you know. Tim Robbins is uh he catches his wife cheating on him, and um Martin Lawrence carjacks him, and he's like, Oh no, you picked the wrong guy to carjack, and they basically go on an adventure together, but they have some scene in the middle of the movie, and I forget the circumstances, but Tim Robbins lights his feet on fire somehow, and they go to a gas station, and the the guy behind the counter at the gas station, he was on Home Improvement. I don't know the guy's name, he was on Home Improvement for a long time. He he's in a bunch of Adam Sandler movies. He was um Adam Sandler's dad, I think, in Waterboy, if I'm not mistaken. I forget. Anyway, so he's standing behind the counter and he see he looks down at Jeff Bridges' shoes and they're all black and they're smoking still, and he's like, You must be real fast. And I think about that movie every once in a while because of this one fucking scene in the movie, and it's really only because of this guy's delivery. Yeah. So you know, we need those. We need those people. I mean parts.

SPEAKER_06 16:16

Yeah. I was really happy to see Tim Robbins in the TV show Silo on Apple TV. He's he's so good in that show.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Yeah, that's one I need to catch when I eventually sign up for the Apple TV. But I sent you the deal. Six months for six dollars. That's crazy. I know, I know, I know, but right now I'm kind of invested in the tubi, man.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Oh, dude, it's free too. How could you not be invested in it? Man, they have they have killer stuff. I I can't. I got some good shit. I thought I think you thought originally when I kept talking about tubi and laughing about it that I was joking, but now you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

I get it. So let me tell you what I've been watching, and it's a lot of tubi. It's it's a lot of I refer to them as Asian gun fight movies.

SPEAKER_09 17:06

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

But uh, you know, I watched um a couple Hong Kong classics. Um, I watched A Better Tomorrow and A Better Tomorrow 2, both of which were directed by John Woo, the man. Nice. I watched City of Fire by Ringo Lamb with Chow Yun Fat, which is apparently also the movie that Tarantino based Reservoir Dogs off of.

SPEAKER_09 17:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

And I kind of put that one off a little bit because I didn't want to see that.

SPEAKER_10 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

But those it was kind of like watching the movie The Shining and reading the book of The Shining. Like I see where all this came from, but they're two totally different things.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

I have a question. Yes. Did you watch A Man From Nowhere?

SPEAKER_04 17:52

And I watched The Man from Nowhere.

SPEAKER_06 17:55

Okay. What did you think?

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Well, initially, um, my first thought watching the movie, because it's, you know, the the quiet guy in the pawn shop and the really um I won't say obnoxious, she was just very uh extroverted little girl. It reminded me a lot at the beginning of The Professional.

SPEAKER_10 18:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

And then as the movie got going, it reminded me a lot of John Wick.

SPEAKER_06 18:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

But it was a really good time.

SPEAKER_06 18:26

Yeah, it was a really good time.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

I I really enjoyed that movie. Um I don't know why. Like I had seen it at Best Buy in a couple other places when it came out, and I was intrigued by the cover, but then when I read the description, I was less intrigued, and I don't know what about it. Yeah, they took me away.

SPEAKER_06 18:44

I don't think the description of the movie does it justice because it's just a badass movie. Like it starts kind of slow. But you for me, what gripped me was the scene when you see the mom because of the mom's work life. Obviously, she's based, you know, she gets killed and stuff, and you're like, oh dang. Oh, you know, and and it reminded me too a lot of I mean, it has very much a lot of similar um a lot of similarities as Man on Fire to me, too.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

Okay, I can see that. I can see that.

SPEAKER_06 19:15

Yeah, and some it that's the movie, like the the equivalent, I think, American movie, other than maybe like Taken or something that I think of when I you know I think of a man from nowhere. I just I just love the grittiness of A Man From Nowhere and the character himself, he's just a man a few words, you know. It has a a lot of I think of a lot of different movies when I think of that movie. I think of a there's it reminds me of bits and pieces of Old Boy, it reminds me of bits and pieces of various other flicks that I just mentioned too. So yeah, I think that's one of my favorite like Korean action movies.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

Yeah, it was it was really good. Another movie where they had great side characters.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

And you had said that um it started kind of slow and see, I didn't feel that way because they were cross-cutting constantly between him and the little girl and their story and all the other stories going on around it that they have fucking nothing to do with.

SPEAKER_10 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

And how it, you know, the the mom ripping off the mob, the mob trying to find out who ripped them off, the cops trying to catch the mob.

SPEAKER_06 20:26

The cops were great.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

The cops were great.

SPEAKER_06 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

All the bad guys were great.

SPEAKER_06 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

I loved I loved how in such a short amount of time they created all of those conflicts between the two the two villains and how they didn't get along, and how the cops were trying to get this villain, and they weren't even looking at these guys until this whole thing happens. But they did it so seamlessly. That was a fantastically written movie, I think.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

It was, and then you know, you have the interaction between the main character and the police as well, because which is great too. He does, because he doesn't really care about the police, he's not interested in them, but they at some point become interested in him, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Yes. So he's try he's running at the mob and he's running from the cops.

SPEAKER_08 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

So the mob is kind of trying to get him into a spot where they can deal with him.

SPEAKER_08 21:23

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

And the cops are trying to catch him, and he's just stuck between the two of them the whole movie.

SPEAKER_06 21:29

And the the cops at some point kind of realize that he's axing the guys that they want to get rid of, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh it it was it was a very interesting movie.

SPEAKER_06 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

I guess for me.

SPEAKER_06 21:42

Yeah, and you know, I think for me, the reason what I mean by slow is just the vast contrast in how the movie starts to the rest of the movie once he's trying to save the girl. Because at the beginning, like you mentioned, you have all these various stories and they're really Relatively calm aside from the inner the interaction with the mother, right?

SPEAKER_10 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:05

The dialogue sequences and stuff like that. And including what you mentioned, uh the main character with the little girl and their interactions. But as soon as he decides to remember his humanity, the whole movie changes. Oh, yeah. And not even maybe it is remembering his humanity, but more so it's this little girl sparking something in him that he didn't know he had, or he maybe he lost along the way.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, he was great in the movie. Um, the woman who played uh the little girl's mom was a trip.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

Oh yeah, she's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

That character was a trip.

SPEAKER_06 22:44

Oh yeah. Yeah, she played it perfectly too.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

She played it perfectly. Uh the two brothers, the villains, not the main one, but the other one who looked like an anime character, he was crazy good.

SPEAKER_06 22:56

Oh yeah, he's he's phenomenal. There's a lot of good, a lot of good acting in that movie.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Yeah, yeah. I I liked how the cop, like the main cop, had like a dim-witted sidekick. Yeah, yeah. That that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_10 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:13

Yeah. Yeah, there was a there was a lot about that movie. I really enjoyed it. Um surprised it took me as long as it did to see that.

SPEAKER_06 23:21

There's one other movie that the main actor is in, and it's it's um it's escaping me right now, but it's another action movie that's phenomenal. Like I put it to the same degree as A Man from Nowhere. Um uh I'll get that to you. I just have to look for it because I forgot what uh what exactly it's called, but it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Yeah, no, I'd I'd be interested in watching it. I I also on there is I haven't watched it yet, is another movie you recommended to me, Cloud. But then right after I saw that it was available on there, Criterion announced that it was gonna be one of their January or February movies.

SPEAKER_10 24:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

So I might just wait and buy that on Criterion. Okay. Because I already have Cure, which is one of those movies.

SPEAKER_10 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

And apparently it's the same guy who did Pulse, which is another one I always hear great things about, but I've never seen for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_06 24:19

Yeah, I haven't seen Pulse either. I I'd like to get around to it though.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Yeah, there was a weird period of time. Well, I won't say weird period of time because I think it was the same time that everybody in America was really getting down with those kind of movies, was right after The Ring came out.

SPEAKER_10 24:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Like the American remake of The Ring, all of a sudden there were just this flood of creepy Asian horror movies. There was Zhu on the Grudge and Dark Water and um you know Whispering Corridors and A Tale of Two Sisters.

SPEAKER_06 24:51

And um but that whole that time period that you're referring to kind of influenced an entire period for American horror movies. To a degree, and mostly maybe about a decade. It was mostly remakes, but it influenced a trajectory of the type of horror movies they were making, and maybe that's due to because there wasn't really many original ideas at the time, or maybe it's just because you know, cinema goes in waves where they do remakes from other countries because the originals are so good, um, whatever it may be, but I feel like every movie you heard about in like, you know, the early 2000s and stuff like that, like they were all remakes from Japanese or Korean horror movies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Well, I always like to go to the source. I remember at the time there was a company, uh, it was called Tartan Asian Extreme. And they released all those movies.

SPEAKER_05 25:49

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Including Hard Boiled and the Killer.

SPEAKER_05 25:52

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 25:53

So I still have those DVD editions of those movies from Tartan Asian Extreme. Or actually, those might have been Dragon Dynasty. Actually, yeah, no, I'm sorry, those must have been Dragon Dynasty because Tartan Asian Extreme was primarily horror movies. But they had some wild movies come out of that, you know, the ones I just mentioned, like Tale of Two Sisters, and they had one called uh I can't remember the name of it, phone or cell phone or something like that. And I don't remember the specifics, but I remember they had this scene because like this ghost had possessed this little girl through the phone. And that little girl, she couldn't have been more than 10 years old, and she was fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_09 26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

She had a scene where she was like doing this whole body tremor at the top of the stairs and laughing, and it was so creepy. And I was just like, that's next level acting.

SPEAKER_06 26:48

Yeah. And you know, we we talked about this in a previous episode. I believe it was our foreign film one, but we talked about how horror films, predominantly you, I think, discussed it because you have more experience and appreciation for foreign horn films, but how they are unapologetically trying to make the most creepy or best horror films they can because there's really no like for better words, there's lot not like a cancel code culture in that sense that's gonna like, oh, this is too horror or this is too crazy that we can't air it in cinema here in other countries, especially Japan and Korea, but also you've mentioned ones from Italy and France. Like they they they go all out when they make their horror movies.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

I I feel like France, especially, like that um French New Wave, which the name is escape escaping me, the New Extremity or something like that. They had some weird, wild movies. My brother was just telling me he watched Martyrs the other day. I don't know if you remember Martyrs. I know they remade it in America. I never saw the American one, but the original French movie was a blockbuster movie for me. I saw it while we were working at Blockbuster. And the first two-thirds of that movie is just this crazy home invasion thriller, and then the last third, maybe just a quarter of it, is the main character literally being tortured to death.

SPEAKER_07 28:22

Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

And it is so hard to watch, and it goes somewhere, like there's a point to it, and it's a real interesting point, but torture is not something that I dig in a movie. Like I, you know, I kind of draw the line at that.

SPEAKER_10 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

Like, like you know how they will tell you now, like back in the day, they'd say this movie's rated R. And now they'll say this movie's rated R for foul language, nudity, smoking for some reason. But if they say torture andor rape, yeah, I really have to think about whether I'm gonna watch that movie.

SPEAKER_06 28:55

No, I agree, and I think we've loosely touched based about that, like when we talked about Zero Dark 30 and how intense it was to watch the torture scenes in that movie.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

Um, and we I think we've discussed a few others, but yeah, I I am in the same boat when it comes to torture scenes. I can't stand when they pull fingernails off people. I just sometimes I just skip the whole scene or just turn it off because that just I can't do it.

unknown 29:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

I mean, it it just depends. Like, obviously, with like Zero Dark 30, like in my mind at least, it was there was more of a historical context.

SPEAKER_09 29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:30

So I was okay with it. You know, something like the torture in Casino Royale or you know, Syriana, where they're pulling out his fingernails.

SPEAKER_06 29:39

Yeah, those are different. I I get what you're saying. There's different levels of torture, uh, but you're what you're referring to from martyrs is an extreme level.

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Oh, it was an extreme level. Yeah, yeah. I believe they were like peeling her skin off at one point. It was rough, man. It was rough, and that movie has fans. Like that movie has fans. Um, oh yeah. That's just too much for me. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we are up all night cinema. I'm Wade. This is Adrian. Say hello, Adrian. Hello, Adrian. So tonight, it's my turn to pick a topic. And I don't know what to expect. This is a good one.

SPEAKER_06 30:21

I'm a little scared, actually.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

This is a good one. I'm I I I have a topic that I was all set to do tonight. I've pushed this thing back like three times now. But thinking about it, this one's just too good. So we're gonna have to do this one, and maybe next time I'll do the the one I keep pushing back. Um, so are are you ready to end the suspense and hear the the topic? Not really, because I feel like I'm gonna have trouble today, but you're gonna give it to me anyways, because I told I told Jen, I'm like, I told Jen, I uh I always worry about whether you're gonna be able to do these, but she pointed out, you know, if you can't do it, we have a Jen Velope, which might be just as difficult, but okay. So the topic this week is good movies with bad reputations.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

So what I'm looking for are movies that we think are good, but for whatever reason, the public consensus is they are not. Okay. So I know you need a minute to think about this, but I have a list, so I'm gonna go first. Please do. And I'm gonna start with one of my favorites and probably the most well-known great bad movie.

SPEAKER_08 31:42

Is it Star Crash?

SPEAKER_04 31:44

No, Star Crash deserves every bit of bad that that movie is. Like that that is a bad movie. Like, I get it. People enjoy the campiness of that if they were you know from the 70s. It was so good though. It was good in a bad way. I'm talking about movies that are really good. But people think audiences didn't dig or critics hated.

SPEAKER_05 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

So my first pick is Waterworld.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

I've never understood why people hated Waterworld.

SPEAKER_05 32:15

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

It is such an epic movie.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

As a lot of his are.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

As a lot of his are. I didn't dig postman. Like I thought that movie was very it was slow and it was very um, I guess pandering would be the word. Like it just seemed fake. I don't know. Waterworld though, like I get it. Like, you know, the the two things I always hear or heard at the time. Well, I'll put three. Number one was that it was a ripoff of Mad Max, which fair enough it was. So can't argue with that. The number two thing that I used to hear all the time was how it was uh boring or slow. But the action in that movie is kick-ass.

SPEAKER_10 33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

And the story in that movie is kick-ass. When most people are like, oh, that movie's slow, it's because they have a whole chunk of that movie where it's about him being on the boat with Gene Triplehorn and the little girl and learning to be a human being, probably for the first time in his life. And you need all of that to understand why he does what he does during the last section of the movie.

SPEAKER_08 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

And the third complaint I always get is how unrealistic things are in the movie. Like uh at the end of the movie, when um they're in the hot air balloon, and the little girl's in the water at the bottom underneath the balloon, and the three guys are kind of coming at her with the uh I don't know what those are, jet skis. And Kevin Costner ties some rope around his leg and jumps off and grabs her and then it pulls him back up like a bungee cord. And every it's this great moment. It's a fantastic climactic moment, and everyone's like, oh, that's so unrealistic, blah, blah, blah. But those same fucking people watch a movie where a Maserati turns into a nine-story building that fights other nine-story buildings, and they're trying to get the cube, and somehow Shia LaBeouf has some agency over what happens between these giant nine-story movies that could shrink themselves down to a little car.

SPEAKER_10 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

But Kevin Costner tying rope around his leg and jumping out of a fucking hot air balloon. That's unbelievable. I don't know. I think Waterworld's great. It's funny. Dennis Hopper's a fantastic villain in it. Dude, it's Dennis Hopper, man. It's Dennis Hopper, man. What you gonna do, hot shot? There's a bomb and a bus. I swear he did those movies back to back and he played the same fucking character in both of them. But I I've never understood why everyone hates Waterworld. I don't get it. I mean, it is it is long, but it's it's really not that long. Like all the Marvel movies are just as long, if not longer. You know, he he's just playing Clint Eastwood. But for some reason everybody hates that movie. I think it's I think it's due for a critical reappraisal. I think there is a cult following of which I am proudly a member.

SPEAKER_07 35:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

But I I I've never understood the hate that movie gets.

SPEAKER_06 35:41

I have my first one, and we've talked about it before as some of our favorites, but I remember it not being well received. Okay. Let's hear it. What you got? It's Man on Fire. Man on Fire, you know? It wasn't it it got like a 40% or something. I remember it so clearly because I was like, what the hell on Rotten Tomatoes? Now, that was years ago. We know Rotten Tomatoes kind of fell off of recently because they were getting paid or whatever for you reviews. Yeah, there was there was some shadiness in the behind the scenes. But Man on Fire got a lot of bad publicity for some reason, and you and I hold that movie very high on the Denzel Washington list, but also on the one of the better movies of the 21st century list.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Oh, absolutely. I I couldn't tell you uh because that was like 2004, 2005, maybe.

SPEAKER_06 36:37

It was yeah, it was it was 2004.

SPEAKER_04 36:39

Yeah, 2004. I can't remember all of what came out in that era, but I'm pretty sure that was in my top five, if not my top movie of that year.

SPEAKER_07 36:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Yeah, that's a tremendous movie. He did a great job, Dakota Fanny did a great job. There there isn't really one person that I could point at and go, he is not doing a good job, like across the board.

SPEAKER_06 37:02

No, but then you have uh uh, you know, other stellar supporting actors or actresses in that movie. You have Rada Mitchell's fantastic, Mark Anthony does a great job.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Mark Anthony does a great job. Mickey Rourke.

SPEAKER_06 37:17

Um, Christopher Walken. Oh, Christopher Walken's great. So, I mean, there's I don't I never understood how that movie wasn't more highly regarded. I don't get it because it got so much bad reviews for some reason.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Yeah, uh it you know, Tony Scott is one of those directors who made a string of movies that probably we could probably do this list with just Tony Scott movies.

SPEAKER_05 37:43

No, yeah, I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

But his movies were always fast-paced, they were always entertaining, they always had good B characters.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

You could sit here and talk about all the characters in Man on Fire, and they were all engaging and had a part in the story.

SPEAKER_06 38:04

Yeah. I mean, the other one I think of right off the top of the bat with Denzel in it was Deja Vu.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Deja Vu's another good one.

SPEAKER_06 38:11

Also done by Tony Scott. So there you go. Like we could really put a list together of not well-received Tony Scott movies that we thought were great movies.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Yeah. Uh he he did so many movies that were not critically accepted. Um you know, enemy of the state. Um trying to think of what else he did. Um, I think Crimson Tide was pretty well received. I liked Spy Game. Spy Game is another that's a Tony Scott. That's another movie that they didn't like. And I thought Spy Game was great.

SPEAKER_06 38:46

Yeah. I mean, and you know, R.I.P. Mr. Redford, but like I don't know. I just don't understand how people don't receive that movie well. I'm sure there's things we could point out if we were watching it. It's like, yeah, this is this, whatever. But overall, like that I think what you mentioned kind of defines Tony Scott in a nutshell is like he made these movies that were intense, they grip you, they're action-packed, but they're really well written as well. Great story and character development and and side characters, and so I just I just don't understand uh you know the hate towards them sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

They're they're kind of seen as style over substance.

SPEAKER_10 39:26

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Because he made popcorn movies. They're popcorn movies, essentially.

SPEAKER_10 39:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

You know, you you go to the theater and you sit there and you pop popcorn and you have a good time for an hour and 45, two hours.

SPEAKER_10 39:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

You know? Uh Revenge. My uncle got me into Revenge. That was another one with Kevin Costner that Tony Scott did. It's a very slow movie, an erotic thriller, but it was a good movie. But that also I don't believe did great in the reviews. Yeah, Tony Scott's just one of those guys that they uh kind of shit on his whole career. And yeah, honestly, if we we look at it, he's probably one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_10 40:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 40:06

Agreed.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

So for my second, I'm gonna go with here here's another one that this one I understand why fans were kind of pissed at it at the time.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

But I've always loved this movie.

SPEAKER_05 40:21

Let's hear it. I'm excited to hear it.

SPEAKER_04 40:23

Judge Dread was Sylvester Stallone.

SPEAKER_06 40:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

You know, the comic book fans did not dig it.

SPEAKER_06 40:31

No, they did not.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Especially because in the comic book, you know, Judge Dread never takes off the helmet.

SPEAKER_06 40:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

And when they did the remake, which I also really enjoy, Dread with Carl Urban.

SPEAKER_06 40:43

Yeah, Urban's dread was really entertaining.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Yeah, it was it was really, really good. And they made a point that he's never gonna take his helmet off. But the the the Judge Dread movie with Sylvester Stallone was a great time.

SPEAKER_07 41:00

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

It was so much fun. And yeah, like even Rob Schneider in that movie was great.

SPEAKER_10 41:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

Like he was so obviously just there for comic relief, but man, it was yeah, he did his his he did his part. He did his part. You know, the movie looked cool. They had cool stories like the whole business where uh they were transporting him to prison and the cannibals shot them down for food, and then they were all excited because they got Judge Dredd and they were gonna get revenge on Judge Dredd. You know, that whole sequence was fantastic. The whole the whole villain aspect of the story, you know, all that shit was great. The costumes, Armani did the costumes for some reason. Makes no sense why they would spend that kind of money, but it looked great. The costumes, the production design, the casting, you know, Diane Lane and Maximon Saido and Armand Desante.

SPEAKER_06 42:05

Yeah, it was it was it was a really fun movie.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

It was a really fun movie.

SPEAKER_06 42:11

I feel I feel that way about a lot of Sylvester Stallone's movies.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

I I feel like we can make a case for him too. Him and Tony Scott, we could probably sit here and just talk about Stallone and Tony Scott movies.

SPEAKER_06 42:24

Yeah, like the one I think of off the top of my head, which was probably well received by the public, but I doubt it was well reviewed, was like Demolition Man, you know?

SPEAKER_04 42:33

Uh I don't know if it did very well, but yeah, that's another one.

SPEAKER_06 42:37

I mean, that's I used to play that game on the Nintendo or Super Nintendo, and I could never I get all the way to the end where I have to fight Wesley Snipes, and I could never beat the fucking game. I s I kid you not, Super Nintendo Demolition Man, I could never beat Wesley Snipes.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Yeah. Uh I played that game at my neighbor's house. Uh we didn't ever had Super Nintendo at my house. We had, you know, like every other thing, you know, like we went Sega, then it's PlayStation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:11

Yeah. It was like a Contra, so it was like a you know a side-by-side type game.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_06 43:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Yeah. But yeah, uh Judge Dread, man. Um I I've always really dug that movie. Uh I remember I was working at Blockbuster. Um I forget the store. It was on 19th Street.

SPEAKER_06 43:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 43:32

It was the one Danielle worked at.

SPEAKER_06 43:34

Oh, yeah. 19th and Carnelian.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

19th and Carnelian. Yeah, that one closed, but I had to work over there one day.

SPEAKER_06 43:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

And I was uh, you know, I went in early in the morning. I was supposed to have the whole day off.

SPEAKER_10 43:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

And I went in in the morning and did a shift.

SPEAKER_10 43:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

And while I was looking at the, you know, I was restocking previously viewed uh purchase movies, they had Judge Dread for five dollars. On DVD, and you better fucking believe that I purchased that and took it home that day. And uh I love Judge Dredd. Yeah, my brother, he was a comics fan growing up, and when we walked out of the theater, he hated it because he's like, they did this wrong, they did that wrong. I was like, that looked fucking cool to me, man.

SPEAKER_09 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

But that also is like my main complaint with comic book fans as translate to movies. They always want more than they could accurately deliver. If that makes sense. Like I remember when um, you know, the Christopher Nolan Batman movies were coming out. One guy we worked with at Blockbuster was like, oh, I hope they do this witch character to explain how he does this and how he does that. It's like they're not gonna go into that.

SPEAKER_06 44:55

No, it was it was a movie aimed at specifically trying to do one thing, and it was highlight Sylvester Stallone in an action movie, but also tell the loose story of the comics.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

Yeah, they they they weren't trying to be completely comics accurate, they took the property and they were trying to make a big blockbuster franchise.

SPEAKER_10 45:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

And that doesn't always mean following the comic book exactly.

SPEAKER_06 45:25

No, it was never labeled a comic book movie, it's an action movie.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

It's an action movie, but it is a great comic book movie.

SPEAKER_10 45:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

But yeah. I love Judge Dread. That's one I will always die on a cross for.

SPEAKER_10 45:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

But I I do think the remake was better.

SPEAKER_06 45:44

Yeah. Urban's dread was very good. I thoroughly enjoyed that movie.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Yeah. The the slow motion business in that movie. They give people the slow-mo, like they had the the scene where the Jet Judge Dredd and Olivia Thrillby were raiding the the drug house.

SPEAKER_10 46:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

And that guy takes some and everything slows down. And then the bullets start coming through, and he's watching his friend's face explode in slow motion, and the one guy like because they like blow the door, and the one guy's flying backwards, and you could see his skin flapping around from the from the impact. Like, that was so cool.

SPEAKER_06 46:26

It was definitely stylized, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

It was definitely stylized. But the the Stallone version was just a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_10 46:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

And it it does have that style of those 90s comic book movies, like we've talked about Blade, the Blade movies, where they were a little bit more over the top.

SPEAKER_10 46:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

But they had more of a character than modern comic book movies do.

SPEAKER_10 46:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:52

Yeah, I think you're d spot on on that.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Yeah. So do you do you have a second choice, or do you I do have a second choice? Alright, let's hear it, man.

SPEAKER_06 47:02

Uh, my second choice is gonna be vanilla sky.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 47:07

What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 47:09

I I've always enjoyed Vanilla Sky. I saw it when it came out in theater.

SPEAKER_06 47:13

Me too. Cameron Crow.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

Cameron Crow. Uh I've always enjoyed that movie.

SPEAKER_06 47:20

That scene for me, uh with Tom Cruise and Julie uh Cameron Diaz's character in the car is just a masterpiece of a scene for me.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Oh yeah, where she starts showing how crazy she is.

SPEAKER_06 47:34

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

And the slowly dawning horror of where he is and what's happening.

SPEAKER_06 47:42

Yeah. Uh yeah. You know, but it's a it's a really good m trippy movie about love. And it's very open-ended, purposely, because you know, you don't really know what to make of the ending. Well, you do and you don't. You do and you don't. It's left up to a little bit of interpretation.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

Yeah. Like I I I d have a definite opinion of what happens at the end of that movie, and I've had that same opinion forever because I did just re-watch that movie a few months ago because it was on it was a featured movie on the Criterion Channel.

SPEAKER_10 48:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

And I forget why, but it was a featured movie, and I went out of my way to watch it, and I hadn't seen it in many years.

SPEAKER_10 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

And I I still felt the same way that I know exactly what happens at the end.

SPEAKER_06 48:39

Yeah. Did you see the original one?

SPEAKER_04 48:42

Uh Audrey Los Ojos?

SPEAKER_06 48:44

Yeah, also with um Penelope Cruz.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

Uh, I've never seen that one.

SPEAKER_06 48:50

Yeah, I haven't either, but I've read in some places that people like the original better for one reason or another.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

Yeah. I mean, but I'm if I'm not mistaken, it's the same. No, it's not the same director. No, because Cameron Crow directed Vanilla Sky. Uh so who Alejandro Aminabar? Is that who did V Abre Los Ojos? Uh I think so. Yeah. Well, he he's he's more of an introspective director. Like his movies are more driven and psychological.

SPEAKER_06 49:26

Yeah, you're right on the director for that.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

Yeah, and Cam Cameron Crow, you know, he he's uh he's more stylish.

SPEAKER_06 49:36

Mm-hmm. So yeah, so I think Vanilla Sky, although I haven't seen the original, but based on what you said about the director, it makes sense. I think Vanilla Sky is a little bit more surreal or maybe existential is a better word, because you deal with, I think, um obviously Tom Cruise's character in actually really loving Sophia, right? Um, but also having this weird experience with the suicide and you know dying and all this. I I think it's a very existential movie because it it has all these different dynamics of what life entails, if that makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:19

Well, when I watch it, the impression I got, the the interesting thing about it this time was, you know, when that movie came out in whatever that was, 2002, 2003. I understood that the man was writ. But he was he was like a rock star. Like everyone knew who he was, everyone to be in his circle, and we didn't really idolize rich people that way at the time. And watching that movie now, it's kind of comparable to like an Elon Musk, how all of a sudden we have people who are trying to be Tom Cruise in that movie. Look how cool I am. Look at these cars I'm driving.

SPEAKER_10 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

You know? So that was very surreal for me.

SPEAKER_10 51:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

So am I living in that guy's reality?

SPEAKER_06 51:07

Maybe. But I think that's also the dynamic of his relationship with the two women, right? You know, one's Cameron Diaz, I think is is at least this is how I try to think about the movie. If like I'm it because in my mind, I I I feel there's so many different dynamics of it. Like, I think of Cameron Diaz's character as what you're alluding to, as the character that's enveloped in that life.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

Oh, absolutely. And but she's a celebrity also in that. Like she's supposed to be a supermodel, right?

SPEAKER_06 51:41

Correct. That's why. That's why I'm saying that. It's like it's it's a completely different dynamic than his relationship with Penelope Cruise's character.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

Who's just some some woman?

SPEAKER_06 51:52

And to me, to me, I see the you you could tell that, and obviously by the dialogue, that Tom Cruise's character does not care about Cameron Diaz's character.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

He he's very specific. Yeah. Like he, you know, at the beginning of the movie, you know, they're in bed together, they've obviously had sex. He wants to be friends, oh, I'll call you later, you know, and she's obviously very clingy, and he's like at a distance when he doesn't want something specific from her.

SPEAKER_10 52:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

And he doesn't even want her at his birthday party.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

No.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

And he cracks so many jokes during the birthday party. Is the hot blonde woman staring at me again? You know, it's kind of like she's a joke.

SPEAKER_10 52:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:43

And that's interesting because it kind of makes his character unlikable in a way.

SPEAKER_06 52:48

Yes. You know, but and I think that's where I'm I'm getting to is like I think you see the life he may actually want or wish he had with Penelope Cruz's Sophia.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

Yeah. But even in the little time that they spend together. Yeah, but he's always destined to have the Cameron Diaz character.

SPEAKER_06 53:10

Exactly. So there's this weird dynamic of this is my life.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

Having what everybody else wants.

SPEAKER_06 53:19

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

And not wanting it.

SPEAKER_06 53:21

Correct. And and that's that weird existential piece of the movie of like this dream state and the events that follow through what's going on. I think it it it it begs the question, like, what's real, like what in your life is real to you, but also there's that dynamic dynamic of like what do you really want, or like maybe life should look differently.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Yeah. You you know it was a great scene in that movie. Is after the car accident and the reconstructive surgeries and all that. I forget what they refer to it as. Um, you know, therapeutic faceplate or something like that. And his reaction, and you all oh, you know, like he looks like he's into it, and he's talking, and he's like, I thought we were talking about a fucking mask. He gets so mad. But yeah, and that mask is creepy, yeah. And very much a riff on the mask from Eyes Without a Face, which I brought up some time ago.

SPEAKER_10 54:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Because it's it's very similar, you know, like the pale, featureless face.

SPEAKER_06 54:35

And you know, I think that's also, in my opinion, when I remember that, I I feel like that's uh uh a little bit of that fake persona versus the reality, you know. At least I think, but for me, I generally like when I see all these different dynamics or these different subjects going on in the movie like that, I I sometimes maybe tend to overthink it because I I maybe read too much into those specific scenes. Like I wonder, oh, is that mask placed there? One, obviously it's important to the film after the surgery and all these things that you mentioned, but I'm also like, well, is that like a is that meant to be there to also allude to the fact that like he's putting on a mask for what he really wants, or is he putting on a mask for some other reason, you know? Um, and so I don't think it really has much to do with that, but I I think about those things when I'm watching that movie.

SPEAKER_04 55:36

They they have a scene in the movie after he's gotten the mask where him, Jason Lee, and Penelope Cruz go to the club, and he gets drunk and I think high.

SPEAKER_10 55:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

And he's wearing the mask at the beginning of the night, and at some point he kind of takes the mask off. So he's got his scarred face just exposed to anyone who will look, but then he's still wearing the mask, so the the the fake face is on the back of his head, and it's a whole metaphor for who he is as a person.

SPEAKER_10 56:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

Because he is just scarred and quote unquote ugly underneath. But he's got that great looking face that he can show to the world when he wants to.

SPEAKER_06 56:22

And yeah, and that and and that's what I'm I I guess I'm trying to say is like that's his true self. The scarred version, along with his reality of in some alternate way wanting Sophia, like that's his true self. It's everything opposite to what he had as a movie star in the cars and everything else. It's it's completely the opposite of what society deems as a perfect life or a life that you have at all.

SPEAKER_04 56:51

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a that's a great movie, man. I I like Vanilla Sky a lot.

SPEAKER_06 56:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

That that's one I feel like on his filmography kind of gets lost in the shuffle a lot.

SPEAKER_06 57:02

You know, uh, I would agree. I think we've talked about it before. Uh we both think that probably Magnolia is his some of his best work or his best work. Um Absolutely. You know, a lot of people throw Jerry Maguire up there. That's a good one. But I'd put Vanilla Sky in the same echelon, maybe a little lower than Magnolia, but it it's up there for me, too. It's a good one, for sure. Yeah. And and and you know, Tom Cruise is also one of those actors. We've talked about comedic actors not getting the acclaim they deserve when we talked about Jim Carrey and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind in episode one. But Tom Cruise, I think, is also one of those characters in movies or an actor that doesn't get the respect he deserved because he's an action star. He's literally the last action star of America, you know, doing his own stunts and all this stuff. He's and what he means cinema and just his his value for making movies and the in the cinematic experience going to the movies. But he's had some very great roles that he does not get get enough credit for. I mean, we just named a few. You throw in Eyes Wide Shut, I think you can throw in Risky Business in there as well. The color of money. The color of money, which is fantastic. I recently samurai. Oh, there's so many that but he's only, unfortunately, gonna be mostly remembered for his action movies. And that's unfortunate because he's a top-notch actor, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 58:43

He he's had a very varied career in the way people like Schwarzenegger and Stallone didn't. Mm-hmm. But for some reason that's that's just how the world wants to see him as crazy Tom Cruise, who will jump off of a building or climb the tallest building in the world or get married in space.

SPEAKER_10 59:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

That's that's how the world wants to see him, but he he can do he he can bring it when he wants to.

SPEAKER_06 59:12

Absolutely. You know, I've I re-watched uh Magnolia recently. We talked about it, I think, off off screen, or maybe of one of the movies I watched in one of the other episodes, but I mean that scene where he cries when his father dies and Philip Seymour Hoffman's in the background, that's one of the most intense scenes in a movie I've seen, I think.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:32

It's so good.

SPEAKER_04 59:34

It's so good. Yeah. I I still to this day, and I'm sure we talked about this, but um I I feel like that should have been his Oscar win, is that movie?

SPEAKER_05 59:46

Agreed.

SPEAKER_04 59:46

And Harvey Weinstein stole it from him because he was able to promote Cider House rules better. And far be it from me to take an Oscar away from the great Michael Cain.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

But that was Tom Cruise's year, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:05

It was. It's unfortunate that he didn't win for that role because his blank stare in that movie is piercing.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

All right. Well, so back to the topic at hand. Number three Wade's number three. This is a movie that has a bit of a cult following, and I feel like is getting more of a critical reappraisal in recent years.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

But I loved it the first day I saw it. I went to the theater to see this.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:37

And I've I've always and always will defend this movie. Michael Mann's Miami Vice. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Miami Vice is so good, and people, even at the time, especially at the time, really shit on it. Oh yeah. And like I said, like the Frida played it some time ago. They had a Michael Mann month, and uh they they played Miami Vice, and um the first two days they did it, they were selling mojitos in the lo the lobby to go with it. You could get a mojito and watch Miami Vice.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:17

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:18

But um the the crazy thing with that movie, number one, the only reason they made that movie in the first place was because Jamie Foxx talked Michael Mann into doing it. Because they worked so so well together on collateral. Another great movie, yeah. And so Michael Mann did Miami Vice, and I can't remember the running times, but Miami Vice was a long movie. It was, it was like 220, 225. And when it came out on DVD, they had a director's cut, and the director's cut was about five to ten minutes shorter and had a whole storyline that they cut out of the movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:06

How was it?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:07

It's so good.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:09

Really?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

So I can tell you watching the director's cut, I could sit here and tell you exactly what they added to that movie that wasn't in the original cut, but I cannot tell you what they took out of that movie to make it shorter.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:24

You know, and generally director's cuts are going to be better because you're getting what the director intended to want.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:29

A lot of times. I mean, you know, sometimes director's cuts aren't that great. May I point out to you the Star Wars prequel trilogy?

SPEAKER_10 1:02:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:40

You know.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:41

Just saying. But I guess I should say if Michael Mann has a director's cut, it's probably gonna be better.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:48

You know, I've I I was listening to um another podcast, and they were talking about uh Last of the Mohicans, which is a Michael Mann movie, and how the studio kept making Michael Mann cut. So the the original cut of that movie was almost three hours. And when you watch the movie, it's a it's about an hour and fifty-five minutes. So there's like a whole romance plot line between two characters who barely have any screen time.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:20

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

But it's because they didn't give Michael Mann room to breathe. And then you have a movie like Heat, which is almost three hours and is fucking perfect in every shape, way, and form. And so Michael Mann's just one of those directors. If you give him the leeway to make his movie, it's it's usually art.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

Sometimes you get a public enemies, which is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

But sometimes you get magic. I would say more often than not.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:50

Yeah. And so we're willing to take the risk to let him make what he wants to make.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:55

Yes, yes. Absolutely. E even heat too, which I'm not excited about. I'm still very on the fence.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:03

Me too. Just because and I think that's in lieu of the masterpiece of the first one. The first one doesn't need to be touched. No, and we don't want it to be touched, and I think that's why we're both leery of them adding or taking away anything from the first one, because it's it's just gonna be sad if it, you know, if if if it doesn't live up. Yeah. But we've talked about this before, you know, you reach Mount Everest, it it's hard to stay at Mount Everest.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

Yeah, back to the top the second time.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:41

But going back to Miami Vice for one brief second, one more thing that I will say. Probably besides the movie itself, which has a fantastic villain, by the way. I forget what his name is. He was in Silverlining's playbook. I can't remember, but he's great. The villa the villain in uh the villain in Miami Vice is great.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:06

Oh, um, shoot, what's his name?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:09

It's John something.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:11

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:14

Uh he was an American gangster, I think. John Ortiz. John Ortiz. He's always good. He was so great in that movie. Yeah. At the end of that movie when he's taunting the heroes and he's all like, your girl is mine now. Maybe later after this, we go have a bite. You know, he's he is so good. So good.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:46

But he's a really good bad guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

He is he's really good at everything. I've always enjoyed that man. Every time he's on screen in anything, he's one of those character actors that I'm always happy to see when he shows up.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:58

He made the movie. Movies that he was in with the Fast and the Furious, where he played Braga.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:03

I didn't see that.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:05

He plays like the drug lord criminal.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:08

He's fantastic in that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:10

He was in Jack Goes Boating, the movie Philip Seymour Hoffman directed.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:15

Yeah. Great. He's so good. But I feel like besides the movie itself, the thing about Miami Vice that gets shit on a lot is Colin Farrell.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:27

Yeah, I would agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:29

And I don't think that's fair.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:32

I don't either. I think he's really good in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:35

I think he's really good in the movie. I think he's really good in most movies, actually.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:42

He is. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

Yeah. I've never understood why everybody hates Colin Farrell so much, but he he was great in Miami Vice, and Miami Vice is a great movie. Even Jen liked it. I kept teasing her for like a I forget how long it was, about a month.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:01

You know? Like, I'd just be like, hey, what do you what do you want to watch tonight? And she's like, oh, I don't know. You know, we were talking about watching this or watching that. I was like, I know what we can watch. And then I would just send her a screenshot of Jamie Foxx and Colin Farrell standing there on the roof of the the strip club at the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:21

Looking cool as hell.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:24

And after like the six or seven times she sent me that, she's like, okay, let's watch the fucking thing. Let's just watch it already. And she actually did really enjoy it. But every once in a while I'll just send her that picture out of the blue and it makes me smile every time. Alright, man. Do you have a do you have a third film for us?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:44

I do. Yeah, I do. I'm curious to see what what your opinion's gonna be on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

Alright, let's hear it, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:52

It's from 1998.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:55

Okay. I remember that year well.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:58

You do?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:59

Uh well, I'm sure I do. The moment you mention the movie, I probably could tell you a million facts about it. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:06

I'm gonna go slowly then because it feels like a good a good one to to to do this with.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:11

It has Leonardo DiCaprio in it. Oh, is is it the beach? No.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

The beach was a couple years later.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:20

It's the Man in the Iron Mask.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Yes! Yes. I love the Man in the Iron Mask. Oh, so do I, man. That is such a good movie. And that movie got shit on in general. Oh, so bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:36

That is, in my opinion, the best Three Musketeers movie ever made. It's so good. Jeremy Irons.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:44

John Malkovich.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

Gerard Depardeux.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:48

Yeah, Gerard DePardieu.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

And Gabriel Byrne is D'Artagnan.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:52

Yes, exactly. Yeah, that is, I don't know how you how you do a better Three Musketeers than that.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:57

And it's it's such a great movie, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:00

Uh it's uh yeah. Yeah, obviously you mentioned directly, I thought you were going with like just the the casting, but yes, the the three musketeers, I don't know how you get better than that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:12

Yeah. I I never realized, um, because I you know, I never read the book. When I was younger, there was a movie with Richard Chamberlain from the 70s that my dad really liked, and I thought it was kind of boring. And I was a Three Musketeers fan. Like I really enjoyed Three Musketeers movies, and they were nowhere to be seen in that movie. So when I watched the DiCaprio one, and they were like the centerpiece, like it was all about the mistakes that they had made since they had separated and gone their own ways, and the way their lives have changed and influenced French history and how they were gonna rectify their mistakes.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

Powerful shit, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:01

Very powerful. And you know, um, I love Randall Wallace's films, the director. He's done some good stuff. Uh, you know, We Were Soldiers is probably my personal favorite.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:14

Okay. Yeah, I never I never watched uh that was with Mel Gibson, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:18

Yeah, it's a Vietnam movie. I oh yeah, highly highly recommend that. It's one of my favorite Vietnam movies, but he also did uh what else did he do?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:29

Well, I know he wrote the screenplay for Braveheart.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:32

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:33

Did he do The Patriot? Was that his? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:41

No, I don't think the Patriot was his.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:43

I don't know why I thought that, but I know there's something else he did.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:46

The Patriot's rolling Emmerich.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:48

Oh, that's weird. Well, not really. That completely makes sense because that that makes a lot of sense now that you see it.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:55

Yeah, I didn't think I didn't think it was Wallace.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:59

Yeah, I I don't you know, you understand why I thought it was Wallace. It was, you know, grand historical epic and it was Mel Gibson again.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:06

Yeah, I mean, for me, I think This is one of those movies that gets lost for Leonardo DiCaprio, unfortunately. He plays two roles.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:17

One is such a great villain, too.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:20

Absolutely. Um, and so I think you know, he doesn't get the credit he deserves, especially when he's werewolf.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah, that that that beard when he takes off the mask is pretty fucking terrible. That's probably the worst part of the movie. But I think what was the biggest issue, uh at least audience-wise, was you know, Titanic was still in theaters.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:48

When when that movie came out, you know, Titanic came out in the middle of December, and it was still the number one movie in the middle of I think it was March when The Man the Iron Mask came out.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:00

I think it was uh another week. It was actually Lost in Space, which dethroned Titanic as the number one movie. And the Man the Iron Mask was a close second place the week before and almost did it. And I don't think the audience was there because they were expecting sexy DiCaprio again. And it wasn't that, it wasn't that, but that's what the teen girls were there for.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:25

Yeah, he had some reminiscence with um uh what's her name? Judith Gardrich's character, his love interest in the movie. I think that's his love interest in the movie. I think so. I don't remember her name. I've never seen her in anything else, but um, yeah, I mean, there was some romance, but you can't equate it to the romance of the Titanic.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:48

Well, no, well, mostly the romance in that movie, from what I remember, it's been a while. But, you know, Louie was a creep.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:57

He was very much so.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:59

And so he was very in her face, and you're gonna do what I want to do, and you know, uh, he he got her fiance killed because fuck that guy, you know, just to get him out of the way. And so there was very little romance in the movie, like you knew it was gonna come in time. When the roles switch, when the roles switch, and it's the the other brother who's obviously gonna be the kind, tender one, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:26

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:27

There there's very little time developing that romance because by that point in the movie the action is ramping up.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:35

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:35

Because that's when they're trying to make the switch and get rid of the evil Louie.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:40

Yeah, and that's when the Three Musketeers have their epic send-off.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:45

Oh, such a great scene. That's it's a great movie. Such a great movie. Um, I like I haven't done it. I would like to. When when I watched that movie, I don't know what you know about three Musketeers movies. But when I was a kid in like '92, '93, so I was like 11, maybe 12, Disney had a Three Musketeers movie with um Kiefer Sutherland, Charlie Sheen, Oliver Platt, and Chris O'Donnell as the three Musketeers in D'Artagnan. So when I watch Leo's Man of the Iron Mask, it's really easy for me to imagine Jeremy Irons and Malkovich and Depardu and Gabriel Byrne as the older versions of those characters. Yeah. So I would love to sit down and do that as a double feature one day. Just watch back to back.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:45

That'd be cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:46

Even though the Disney movie is kind of it's a Disney movie, you know, it's a PG adventure. It's kind of silly.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:51

Hey, it's still it's still kind of a classic, though. It's one of those that go under the under the radar for Disney.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:57

Yeah. Tim Tim Curry plays the villain. How can you go wrong?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:02

But yeah. Three Musketeers is a great pick, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:05

Well, the man in the iron mask is a great pick.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:08

Oh, did I say the three musketeers?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:10

Yeah. Well, that could be a great pick.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:12

Honestly, it's The Man in the Iron Mask is a three Musketeers movie, though, to me. Like when you watch, it's just like the old Musketeers.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:19

Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Yeah. Number four wage.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:22

Alright, so there's a lot of soul searching over here about what to do for number four.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:28

For number four, I'm gonna go with a semi-recent movie. Okay. Um, it's a pre-pandemic, but like that's 2018, maybe 2019. Okay. This was a movie, it was a horror movie. Okay. It came out and everybody fucking hated it, but me, it felt like. I went to see this movie with a buddy's girlfriend because she wanted to see it really bad and he wouldn't go. He he wouldn't go see this movie, but he wanted her to go see Assassin's Creed. I remember that was a whole thing. Cause that's that's awesome. And I'm like, okay, whatever. But the movie I'm referring to is Darren Aronofsky's mother with Jennifer Lawrence and Javier Bardem.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:13

Um, I'm not sure. Did you see this movie?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:16

I did not, no, but you have mentioned it to me a few times that it's a stellar movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

Yeah, it's a stellar movie. Um, I don't know if you know what it's about.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:27

I don't really know.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:29

When I saw it, I didn't really understand it.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:32

I knew it was great and it was something wild that I've never seen ever in my life.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:36

Which you can expect from Darren Arnovsky.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:38

Which you can expect from Aronofsky. So uh Javier Bardem is a poet of some kind, and Jennifer Lawrence is his wife, and they live in this house in the middle of fucking nowhere. Like it's just a forest around them. There's no roads or anything. And they're trying to renovate the house, and then one night Ed Harris shows up at their front door.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:01

And he's such a big fan of Bardem. He's like, I'm such a huge fan. Your writing has changed my life. And this comes at a moment where Bardem is having serious writers' block because the whole subtext of this movie is about the egotism of writers and uh the hubris of the writer. And so Ed Harris shows up out of nowhere. And then pretty soon, like the he spends the night, and the next morning, Michelle Pfeiffer shows up out of nowhere, and she's Ed Harris's wife. And then sometime later, their two sons, their two grown sons, show up and have a fight in the living room. And one of them gets killed. And so Javier Bardem goes with the family to the hospital. And when Javier Bardem comes back, he tells her, Oh, we're gonna have a wake in the house for the dead son, because it's the least I can do. And throughout all this, his his writing um gets sparked again. You know, he starts writing and he's got something great, and his publisher, played by Kristen Wig, thinks it's amazing. And at the end of the movie, it just becomes like this weird thing where all these fucking people are in the house having a party from this funeral, and it becomes a party, and it feels like every time Jennifer Lawrence does a circuit of the house, shit gets crazier and crazier, and there's a tank blowing up the walls, and all this weird shit is happening. And come to find out, it's um a literal retelling of the Bible, is what it is. Javier Bardem is essentially God, and she's Mother Earth.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:42

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:44

And yeah, when I heard that, the whole movie clicked into place. You know, the you know, that was Adam, this was Eve, this was other children, and Cain was killed by Abel and the whole business.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:56

And it was such an inventive, crazy movie. And I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, and nobody else fucking liked it. I had one person I was friendly with who on her Snapchat she went to go see the movie, so she snapchatted, Oh, I'm seeing mother. And then after the movie, she snapchatted again and said, Well, there goes your career, Jennifer Lawrence.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:22

Boy, was she wrong.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:24

And then um, I had one friend uh who said that because I said that was a blueprint for how to make a really intense, interesting movie, and he said, This is the blueprint for how to not make a movie.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:36

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:37

You know, and the critics weren't kind to it, like everyone hated it. And I would like to see a critical reappraisal of that movie because I thought it was great. It was really bizarre, really interesting. And what I really found interesting, especially after knowing that it was a retelling of the Bible, because you know, when you talk about religion, you know, like you know, Jesus is getting crucified and all this stuff, you know, it doesn't occur to you how horrific those things are.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:09

So he just put it in this modern context.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:14

It's intriguing to me. Now, I actually really want to see it for the religious context that you're describing because as you would really love you to see it. Yeah, that's a big that's a big part of me, but um, you know, I I I think telling that in a modern way outside of biblical context in a movie sounds really intriguing to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:34

Yeah. There there's one part towards the end that is just so horrifying, but it's part of the story.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:44

You know what I mean? Like I can't tell you too much without ruining it, but there was there was one moment when it happened in the movie, I was like, oh my god. And when I found out the context in which it was the Bible, I was like, Holy shit! That is actually really fucking creepy when you put it in those terms.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:04

Well, the Bible in a lot of places is not for the light of heart. Uh, even for example, like we were talking about the man in the iron mask and how Leo's evil character kills the fiance, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:17

Yeah. He pulls a Zeus on him and sends him to the front lines of war.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:21

Well, that's not even a Zeus thing. That's a King David thing from the Bible. So the the famous story is King David in Bathsheba, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:32

So King David sees Bathsheba on his balcony across, and he immediately becomes lustful and enthralled by this woman. And so he does the exact same thing. He takes her husband, uh, Uriah, if I'm not mistaken, and gets him drunk a few nights, this and that, whatever, but then puts him, has his like first commander put him at the front lines in the next battle, and he dies.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:00

Yeah. So that he can have the woman.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:02

Correct. And ultimately, this story of what King David did is so pivotal to his his character in the Bible that it ultimately leads to his demise in some way or another. It leads to it's the start of his trajectory to losing his throne as King of Israel. It's that big of a climax for King David as a real life person. It's it's pivotal. Um, it was seen by God as a treacherous act and uh something that was implorable, you know, it w it was terrible. Um that's immediately what it reminded me of when I thought of um that scene that you mentioned from from um from the man in the iron mask.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:51

Yeah, I I always think of the story of Zeus, because I I I like Greek mythology. I wish that I had more time and could dive deeper into Greek mythology. I pretty much have all the knowledge I gleaned out of high school, but yeah, I I know that there was a story where Zeus was in love with this woman on Earth. And he basically started a war so that her husband, who was the general of Zeus's armies, would go off to war. And like two or three days after he was long gone, Zeus shows up at her door disguised as her husband. So that's what I think of. But obviously, your story involves you know that guy being murdered by you know a flesh and blood human. So I guess it does make more sense to the man in the iron mask. But I would love for you to see Mother.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:40

Yeah, I I will check it out because that actually sounds really intriguing to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:44

It it it it was really intriguing. Uh it's I mean, it's a horror movie, but you know, it's just a different way of looking at the events portrayed in the Bible. It's not, you know, demonic possession or anything like that. Yeah. And because it's Aronofsky, it gets really intense.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:02

Well, and it's honestly one of the only Aronofsky movies I haven't seen. So I feel like I need to watch it.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:08

The only one of his I've never seen is Noah.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:10

Okay. Did you see um Caught Stealing?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:13

Oh no, I need to. Caught Stealing is gonna be on Netflix soon.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:16

Oh, it is. Oh, that's awesome, dude. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:19

The end of the month.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:20

Oh, I love that movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:22

Jen spotted it the other day.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:24

Oh, sweet. Yeah, you're gonna have a good time with that movie. Oh, yeah. Where it's completely different than anything that Arunoski has done before, in my opinion. There's some there's some aspects that you know it's him, but completely different movie than what he's done before. And we've talked about it, I think, but uh when they were interviewing like uh Austin Butler and stuff like that, he was just saying, like, this is for Darren, this is a movie where he just said, you know what, I want to have like a fun time making a movie. And you could tell this movie is a freaking fun time making a movie. Yeah, he he his movies are usually real serious. No, actually, you know what? This movie, and that's where I'm saying, like, it has tidbits of like, oh, this is definitely an Aronofsky movie, but the rest of it is just fun, it's hilarious. I would I would label it as an action comedy above anything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:19

That's what it looked like, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:20

Yeah, it definitely is that, but there's some very, very, very serious undertones to the movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:28

Good. Yeah, I'm I'm excited to see that. I wanted to see it in theaters and we just didn't get around to it at the time, which is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:35

Are you ready for my number four?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:37

I'm ready for your number four, sir. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:39

Okay. It's a movie from 2002.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:42

2002, I remember it well.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:45

It's from one of your favorite directors.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:49

Ah, okay. Okay. I I don't know. There's too many to guess. I need a I need more information than that. I mean, I got so many favorite directors. I mean, shit. I'm just gonna say it. Yeah, let's hear what you got.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:09

Femi fatale.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:11

Oh, yeah, that's one I've never seen. That's a De Palma movie I've I've never seen.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:16

Oh, wow. So this is this is different because it's a movie that you haven't seen, but I've seen from Brian De Palma.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:24

Yeah, that is different. That's the one with uh Ben Daris and Rebecca Romain, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:26:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:30

Yeah, that is one I wanted to catch. I never got around to it, though.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:33

Oh man, I it's one of those movies that didn't really get well received. I think it scored like less than like 50% on a lot of like a Metacritic stuff and Rotten Tomatoes and things like that. But it's your a typical, like sexy, kind of badass female main role type of movies, you know? Um and uh I really enjoyed it. It's uh the story about this woman, um, and she there's this crazy heist scene, and what happens is she encounters this eerily identical woman to her, played by the same character, and um and this woman she encounters. I don't want to give away too much to you because you know, so essentially uh Antonio Banderas plays a paparazzi, if you wish, or a uh a non-professional, or he takes the tracking of this woman very seriously because at some point uh Rebecca Romaine's character uh takes the identity of uh this identical person. Okay, she's just uh you know been involved in this uh crazy heist, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:48

Um, and so uh the movie is uh it's very sexy, it has this uh front to facing uh forceful female figure. Um I would consider it. Like a thriller slash crime heist movie, which is always fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:05

Oh, that's that's my one of my genres right there, too.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:08

Exactly. And um, and so Antonio Banderas' character is essentially on the cusp, I'm gonna say is on the cusp of like revealing these secrets of what's been really happening, right? And that's all I really want to say to you because if you haven't seen it, I think you'd enjoy it.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:29

Yeah, that that one I remember when it was coming out, and I think I had I can't remember why we didn't see it, but I had a girlfriend that we went to the movies all the time because you know I'm a movie guy. And I think maybe she didn't want to see it, might have been the reason. I don't know, but I just never got around to it for some reason.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:49

But then it didn't help that, like you said, it had very negative um reviews from the critics in the audience. But that that's uh that's a De Palma thing, is the whole duality thing. Remember, we went to that uh De Palma secret triple feature, and that was the theme. It was um sisters and body double and snake eyes, and the guy was like, Oh, these are movies about duality. Yeah, you know, and they they could have just as easily shown Dress to Kill, which is also about duality.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:21

Yeah. So that's a that's a big theme for him. I think it's very a very stylish movie. Um I think it's shot really nice. Um I wouldn't consider it like one of De Palma's best movies, but I enjoyed it and I know it wasn't really well received, and I think there's probably reasons you can argue for that. But um I think there's like a a strand of De Palma movies that people didn't really care for.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:51

Well, De Palma's never been the most popular.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:55

No, but he has those few movies that everybody's like, oh, they're great movies, and you know, this is one of those string of movies where it's like, oh, yeah, it was a terrible movie. Well, but I think a lot of people don't understand it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:08

Well, there's that, probably. Um, but I know, you know, all these directors, you know, they have this window where they make great movies and then they get old and they stop making great movies. They're still trying to make movies, but they're not necessarily great. You know, William Friedkin went through that like around the same period he was doing movies that were okay, like the like The Hunted with Benicio del Toro, like uh Rules of Engagement with Tommy Lee Jones. I like those. I mean, they're fine movies, but they're also not Sorcerer the French connection.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:43

No. Or um uh To Live and Die in LA.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:47

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:48

So one of the best car chases of all time.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:52

Easily one of the best car chases of all time. But what I'm saying is, you know, they have a heyday and then they continue to work and they may do something good, but it's never up to up to snuff with their best.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:07

And I think that's a place De Palma was at when he did that movie. But what it has going for it today that modern audiences might like is they really don't make those kind of movies anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:19

Exactly. I think if you watch that movie now, you really enjoy it because it has a mix of, like I said, it's you have this whole heist crime component with with the main character, and she's involved with this syndicate, and she chooses to probably make the wrong choice. That's all I'm gonna say. But, you know, and and then it it it kind of morphs into this alternate story because she takes on the persona of this identical woman, but Antonio Banderas knows the truth in some way or another, but it's also like, you know, any movie that Antonio Banderas is in, he he's gonna be this sexy guy that's like, you know, commands the screen with his accent and all this stuff. So there's that aspect of like undertone of sexy thriller as well, you know? Um and so there's a lot of fun elements to the movie. Um and uh, you know, I yeah, I I just think of I think of that movie and I'm like, hey, yeah, that's that's one I I vaguely remember watching when I was at Blockbuster.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:29

And and uh really enjoying it and kind of thinking about it and researching it. It's like, yeah, I'm surprised that movie wasn't really well received.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:40

Yeah, yeah. Good pick, man. Yeah, I'm gonna have to watch that. That's when I'll have to add. Maybe they might have it on Tubi.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:46

Oh shoot, let's check.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:48

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:51

Fucking Tubi. Oh man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:56

I can't seem to find where it's at.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:58

Oh. Well, it might be might be harder, but I'll have to I'll have to look it up, see if I can find it someplace.

unknown 1:33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:04

Well, are you ready for my fifth and final choice?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:07

Yeah, let's hear it, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:09

Now, this is this is tough. And when I tell you my honorable mentions later, you'll understand why this is tough.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:17

But I'm gonna go with another big, giant, obvious one.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:24

That was not the movie the fans wanted.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:28

I love this movie, man. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:30

When is it f what year is it from? Tell me, let me let me try to guess it. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:34

I'm gonna say 2012.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:38

Okay. Well, I don't think there's any way in hell I'm gonna guess it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:43

Would you like the director?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:45

Ridley Scott.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:47

Whoa, 2012, Ridley Scott?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:50

It's about 2012, 2013, something like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:55

I don't know. Go for it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:57

Prometheus.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:00

I have enjoyed that movie since the opening night when I saw it. Me and uh me and my buddy and his uh future ex-fiance went and caught that together. I believe it was opening night or the night before, you know, because that was right around when they stopped doing the midnight shows. Like now you could go to the seven or ten o'clock show the night before.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:24

But we went and saw it, and I loved it. It's a weird sci-fi movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:29

Honestly, one of the best like origin backstory buildings, you know, that I've I've witnessed in a franchise.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:39

And and if I'm if I'm honest, because it's a it's supposed to be a prequel to Alien, but honestly, I don't feel like it works as a prequel to Alien at all.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:48

I love the the backstory of like building the world. I thought they did a great job with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:54

They did a great job with that. They did a great job populating with interesting actors to play the characters.

SPEAKER_10 1:35:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:03

Uh yeah, some of the dialogue's not great. Like one of the main characters, uh, what is his name? Logan Marshall Green.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:10

Can't remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:11

I want to say that's his name. Numi replaces uh boyfriend, the other scientist who makes this discovery that takes them to this location. He's not great, and his character's kind of a dick. And then, you know, things are kind of obvious, like they have the scene where Numi Rapace makes the comment that she can't create life. So you know that she's gonna get pregnant.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:36

She's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:37

She's amazing, she's great in it. Uh Charlie Stherin is great in it.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:43

Idris Elba is great in it.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:45

Michael Fassbender is fucking fantastic in it.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:49

He's Michael Fassbender.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:50

He's Michael Fassbender, and he was so good in that movie. And I think their big mistake with that franchise is really pushing the alien the second time around. Mm-hmm and and even calling it Alien Covenant. Like, that wasn't a great movie.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:09

But but I feel like because the fan reaction was so negative to Prometheus that they're like, we really have to up the alien quotient this time.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:19

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:20

But I I love Prometheus as just a standalone weird sci-fi movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:27

Yeah, and I I agree with you what you said to start as I mentioned that I love the the world building and all the backstory that they attempted to create as a prequel to Alien and Aliens, but I also agree with you to some degree in the sense that it wasn't a good prequel. Reason being because like when you look at Alien and Aliens, like the characters are not these like brilliant-minded human beings and incredibly scientific individuals. They're soldiers and run-of-the-mill individuals, albeit exactly. But when you get to like pr Prometheus, they're scientists and cartographers and like all these brilliant scientific minds are very intellectual individuals. So it it's interesting that they chose to, you know, go that route. But I think in what in one way, to me, that's something that I I saw that was like, okay, I get how this may work, but at the same time, it doesn't work for me. I get that it can work because like they're exploring this new area, and maybe on like ships in Alien and Alien, they're sending more of soldiers or like run-of-the-mill individuals on an expedition that maybe these individuals are more expendable for whatever reason, you know. Um, and that was I think my my attempt to try to have some logic with Prometheus being a prequel, right? But I still think they missed that a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:06

Yeah, well, I I like the because obviously, like I know in the original Alien, you know, they sent them because they were expendable, you know, they were just a bunch of uh shipping, you know, they were truckers essentially in space.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:19

Yeah, that's the idea of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:20

And then the second one, it was an army. They sent an army, which you would, but you know, for the mission for Prometheus, like it makes sense for them to be scientists. And I think the biggest uh thing that I hear in connection with that movie of why it's a bad movie is that the characters, these smart, intelligent scientists make such stupid decisions.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:44

Yeah, that's the big gripe. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:47

That's the big gripe. And I've said it before in other ways, but I think as more recent history since that movie came out has shown us really smart, intelligent people make some dumb fucking mistakes.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:03

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:05

I just watched a documentary on Netflix about the Murdaw murders.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:10

Anyone who's familiar with that case knows that smart people do dumb fucking things.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:16

Yeah. And you know, the other thing we should clarify for people who maybe haven't seen Prometheus or Alien and Aliens, which you should if you haven't. You really should. Alien and Aliens, we can consider more action movies. They're sci-fi action movies.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:33

Well, the second one, the first one is more of a it's like a haunted house movie in space. Like that one's more of a horror movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:41

I think okay, yeah, yeah, I I would agree with you there. There there are obviously action sequences in the first one, but it is more of a haunted house, like what's hiding around the corner type of vibe.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:52

And Aliens is definitely more of a full testosterone 80s badass action movie. Correct.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:00

And they lay the landscape for that pretty early in Aliens. Like you said, let's send an army.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:06

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:07

Uh Prom Prometheus, I just think got kind of shafted a little bit because, you know, there's an audience expectation of what people want. And, you know, we've talked about this too. Fandoms are not my favorite groups of people because they have these narrow views of what a movie can or should be.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:29

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:30

And they don't, you know, give any space to the original thought.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:36

You know, like is Prometheus perfect? No.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:38

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:39

It is not. Like I said, some of the dialogue's bad, some of the twists are foreseen, but it's it's a weird sci-fi movie, and I love a good weird sci-fi movie. And you know, the costumes are great. I love the mystery of the movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:56

Yeah. I love all the computer generated CGI bits and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:01

Like with the with the maps and all that.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:03

Yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:05

Yeah, that stuff is really cool. Yeah. So there there was a lot to love about that movie. And I do.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:11

Yeah, I I agree with you. As a standalone movie, it's great. I think there's some questionable things when you interlay it with the franchise.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:20

But I still think even interlaying it with the franchise, I still think it's a reputable movie. It it just could have been done better to align with the rest of them, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:33

Yeah. And that that was not the intention, you know. He wanted to do like three different movies that were gonna that were gonna eventually line up.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:41

Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:42

But of course, we never got the third movie. I did hear a little bit recently, and I can't remember, but I heard a little bit about what the third movie would have been like, and man, that would have been great.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:53

I mean, you never know, honestly, because with Alien Earth getting such good buzz.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:59

But the fans hated that too. Like a lot of the fans really not that show.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:03

I haven't seen all of it yet, but what I have seen of it, it is fantastic. And you really love, yeah, you really loved it.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:11

I really loved it.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:12

Um I really liked Romulus. I do need to watch it. I do. You do. You need to get it out of the way. Yeah. So we can so we can talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:21

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:23

All right. But uh, yeah, you know, I think sometimes when good buzz is created, you never know if one of those movies that's rumored might pop up. And I think that's the the excitement sometimes is we read about these could have been or rumored storylines for a second or third movie, and we get excited because we know it could probably be really good.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:47

I I can't imagine because now it's a Disney property because 20th Century Fox. So I can't imagine Disney giving Ridley Scott a hundred to two hundred million dollars to do another sequel in the Prometheus universe, especially after how poorly the fans and the critics received Prometheus. Correct. And just how badly Covenant did at the box office.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:11

Yeah, I don't see that happening either, unless they completely spin it and make something like Predator Badlands.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:19

Yeah. It would have to be a whole new thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:23

But then Romulus was theirs and it was pretty successful.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:27

Uh like I said, I really liked Romulus. I don't think it did great necessarily. Uh you know, I've been hearing them talk about doing a sequel. I really liked it, man. I I know there's specific bits about it that you really dislike, and that's why you haven't watched it yet. But I think it's just a good movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:48

Alright, man. What's your number five? I'm dying to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:52

Number five. It's actually a romance comedy.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:58

Okay. That's interesting. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:01

From 2007.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:03

Okay. I remember that year. Do you? I remember a lot of years. I'm an old man. I'm an old man. Um, it's P.S.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:13

I Love You.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:14

Okay. I never watch P.S. I Love You.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:16

I love that movie. That's one of my like guilty pleasure romance comedy movies, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:24

Yeah. If it's uh Gerard Butler, I'm usually like, what's he doing here?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:29

But it's also has Hillary Swank, Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:33

Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:34

Lisa Coudre, Kathy Bates.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:36

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:37

Harry Connig Jr. Yeah. I really liked P.S. I Love You. And the director, Richard LaGravenis, he actually he directed and co-wrote the screenplay for this movie, but he also co-wrote the screenplay for the Fisher King.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:53

Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah, that I did know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:57

So um and it's this story about Hilary Swank, this character losing her husband, who's played by Gerard Butler.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:07

To an illness. And Gerard Butler plans this whole post-death vacation or extravaganza for Hillary, Swank's character. So she goes on this epic adventure while she's mourning, but also trying to find new life post the most traumatic experience that she's encountered. And it's just a good movie. It's sad, but it's also a good movie. And the B characters are fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:37

The B characters, man. Yeah, they were still doing that in 2007.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:40

Yeah. I honestly think it's one of the better romance movies that a come that has come out in the 21st century. That's my honest opinion.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:48

As long as it's better than Made in Manhattan, it's already got my vote.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:52

It has uh a better cast.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:55

Oh, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:56

Made in Manhattan. And probably a better director, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:58

Made in Manhattan had Ray Fines, though.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:01

Uh yes. That's hard to it's hard to do better than Ray Fiennes. But I really enjoy Harry Connig Jr. and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. So those reasons I will say, um, yeah. I mean, obviously Hillary Swank, too. You know, she's she should be respected for what she's done.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:22

Um two-time Best Actress Academy Award winner.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:26

Exactly. And so um you can't you can't throw any shade at her, and she's great in this movie. And so I would highly recommend it. And you know, I have a soft spot for romantic comedies or I know this about you. Comedies about romance in general, you know, and um uh and so I would highly recommend P.S. I love you as a good movie watch, but if you're looking specifically for a movie like this, I think it's top not.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:52

So did you find any other movies that you would like to mention as like an honorable mention when you were thinking about this? You know, not specifically. Um because I have two specifically that I like I originally wanted to talk about and I just didn't I moved it around on the list at the last minute.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:14

Okay. Um I had looked up some other ones that I was thinking about that, but they got you know um better ratings or reviews than I thought they did. Um but yeah, go ahead and give us some honorable mentions that you have.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:30

Uh well, my first honorable mention was the Lost World Jurassic Park. Ah, okay. Yeah. Which I feel like when that movie came out, it was a huge disappointment. Everyone hated it. I always enjoyed it, but everybody hated it.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:46

And, you know, we've had how many other Jurassic Park movies since? Four or five?

SPEAKER_06 1:47:53

And because of how well the new one did, even though it was whatever, although it was kind of cool because it was a little more dark and creepy, they're gonna make another one because it did so well at the box office. It's inevitable.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:04

Because they do so well at the box office, but the Lost World is still, I mean, I haven't seen the one with Scarlett Johansson yet, but of the ones I have seen, Jurassic World or The Lost World, Jurassic Park is still the second best Jurassic Park movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:18

Agreed.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:19

Easily.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:20

Yeah, agreed. You heard that uh I don't know if you saw the post I sent you, but that Scarjoe is rumored to be uh doing the next Exorcist.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:30

Yeah, I did see that. Uh that'll be that'll be interesting. I don't think we need another Exorcist movie, but you know I don't either. What the fuck do I know? Now this was the one that hurt though to pull off the list. And I pulled it off because we briefly mentioned it in another episode.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:49

Okay, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:50

Man of Steel.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:51

Oh yeah. That got that did not get well received.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:57

But you know, when the new Superman movie came out, it was good, but even at the time, I was like, I still feel like Man of Steel was better. And it did kind of rekindle this flame where I wanted to go back and watch the old 1978 Richard Donner, Christopher Reeves, yeah, uh, the first two Superman movies, and me and Jen watched them, and man, are those movies overhyped as hell. They are not good.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:31

Like the music is great, the costume is great, Christopher Reeve is great, but they are such dull, boring movies. I've never enjoyed the original Superman movies, and I always think it's my fault. Like, I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:48

Like almost like you're expected to like them, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:49:51

Yeah, and they're just not good.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:54

They they are not as good as Man of Steel. Man of Steel was dynamic. It was interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:01

And you have I don't even think it's arguably, you have the most physically dominant and intense version of Superman that you've seen on screen.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:15

Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:16

I I think the complaint that people have is because Superman is supposed to be the good guy Boy Scout and he does things in the movie like trash that dude's truck for being a dick. That's not any different, in my opinion, than in the end of Superman 2, where Superman goes back to that diner in the middle of Alaska and beats the shit out of the guy. Because now he can.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:46

I love when people do that. I had I had another friend who used to bit about how Ben Athleck's Batman was killing villains, even though they never show him kill anybody. But he's firing guns from uh his bat plane and stuff. He's obviously killing people, but he thinks Michael Keaton's Batman never killed people. I was like, he literally turns the Batmobile at one point and lights one guy on fire with the the tailpipe. He he he straps a bomb to another guy and throws him down a pit and then he walks away and the pit explodes.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:26

But these these mega fans just sweep that kind of shit under the rug.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:32

And then bitch about other people doing the same thing. Like, oh, I can't believe they let Superman kill Zod. What the fuck were they gonna do with Zod?

SPEAKER_06 1:51:40

Yeah, you had to kill him.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:42

He had to kill him.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:43

Yeah, not he would he would have literally destroyed Earth.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:46

He he would have destroyed Earth, he was gonna kill those people, right? Like Superman had no choice. It was Zod or those people. But then even if he beat him without killing him, what were they gonna do with Zod?

SPEAKER_06 1:51:58

Yeah, but that's the brilliant storytelling and the risks that you take in making a movie like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:04

Exactly. And I thought it was I thought it was great. I I really like Man of Steel.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:08

I think that's a really chill out. That's a really good one. I think of movies we've talked about, you know, um, that I know weren't well received, like uh the original Blade Runner, um, The Thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:21

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:22

Um Escape from New York.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:25

Yeah, I don't know if Escape from New York, I mean it was a B movie, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:29

Yeah. Um the other one that I think of is uh um I know it got really poorly reviewed on Rotten Tomatoes, but I thought it was hilarious in probably um Annie Sandburger's best movie is Hot Rod.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:42

Okay, I I'm I need to re-watch Hot Rod.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:45

Yeah, I thought that was hilarious. I'm not and I'm not a huge fan of him at all. I don't think he's funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:52

I I gotta tell you, I'm a Lonely Island fan.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:55

Yeah, I don't think he's funny at all, but I lacked my ass off in Hot Rod.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:00

Yeah, I I like Lonely Island. That's funny.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:03

Um the other one, the honorable mention that I would have liked to mention, but I didn't know it was as well received as it was was Black Dynamite.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:12

Okay, yeah. I I think Black Dynamite was one of those movies that didn't do well necessarily at the box office.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:20

No, it and there's no way it would have.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:22

But I think a lot of the critics got the joke.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:26

Yeah, it's a black exploitation movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:29

Which is it's it's one of the best ones I've ever seen. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:35

Yeah, that's uh that's one I would like to re-watch. Uh I would like to re-watch I'm gonna get you sucker. Have you ever seen that?

SPEAKER_06 1:53:43

A long time ago, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:45

Man, that's so funny. They got a scene in that movie, and it's genius. It's uh Keenan Ivory Wayans.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:52

The director of scary movie, I believe. He did that one.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:56

Yeah but um That family and something else, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:59

That family is so smart and so funny.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:03

But they had a scene in I'm Gonna Get You Sucker, where these these guys were trying to muscle his mother. His mother owned like a deli or something, and these guys were trying to muscle her for protection money, and she basically kicks their ass. But midway through the scene, like they switched to the stunt double, and it goes from being Keenan Ivory Wayne's mother, or an actress portraying Keenan Ivory Wayne's mother, to a very noticeable white man with a mustache. He's not even wearing the same clothes. It's so funny. I yeah, I I love that movie. I haven't seen that movie in a lot of years. I would like to check that out.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:48

Well, Wade, we've had some good ones today.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:51

We did.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:53

But I think it's about that time.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:55

Yeah, it's getting kind of late.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:57

Yeah, it is. But let's uh let's recap for our listeners real quick. Uh our top five.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:04

All right. Well, well, my top five were Waterworld, Judge Dread with Sylvester Stallone, Miami Vice, Mother, and Prometheus.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:16

It's a good list.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:18

Very varied.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:20

I think they were very varied in general. We're good, it's a good variation of movies.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:26

We we we do pretty good at that, I think.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:28

Yeah. And my five were Man on Fire, Vanilla Sky, The Man in the Iron Mask, Femme Fital, and P.S. I Love You.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:37

That's a good, that's a good varied list as well, there, sir.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:40

Yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty varied.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:42

Got a comedy on there, got a action movie, got a period piece.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:49

Got a drama, a psychological science fiction drama.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:53

Yeah, anything you want, you got on that list.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:56

Pretty much, yeah. You know what was another one that I wanted to talk about and I didn't bring it up was the A-Team.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:04

That was good, actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:06

I really enjoy the A Team, but I get why people didn't like it, but I enjoyed the A-Team.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:11

So did I. That was a fun time. Yeah. So, for everyone listening, we appreciate you sticking with us. We are up all night cinema. Your hosts Adrian and Wade say hello. Hello and good night, Wade. And then the words of William H. Macy from Train Dreams. My family is everywhere. There's a smiling face. Never been somewhere. I didn't have some family there, except for Kansas. That state is a collection of savage lunatics. Good night, y'all.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:44

My mother is from Kansas.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:50

Hello again, movie lovers. That concludes our show for this evening. I hope you had as much fun as I did. I'm sure you have a whole list of new movies to watch. Just don't get so busy watching them that you miss our next episode. Better yet, why don't you go ahead and click that subscribe button at the bottom for me? That would make me real happy. You want to make me happy, don't you? From all of us here at Up All Night Cinema on KNRR, not really radio. We say you complete me.