Jen's Pick 3: The Secret of the Ooze

The boys open another Jenvelope and find themselves discussing their favorite gangster movies

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hello, movie lovers. It's after midnight and you're listening to Up All Night Cinema with Wade and Adrian on KNRR, not really radio. And now here are the boys. Hey, uh is this thing on? Sounds on. It sounds on? Sounds on. Here we are, Wade. Another episode. Yes, sir. Yeah. It's uh the week of Christmas of this recording. And uh there's some movies that are coming out. Obviously, uh Avatar has already released.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Yeah. And it's made a global killing. I think it's made back like 80% of its its budget already.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Who is surprised by that?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yeah, nobody is surprised by that.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

But I will say I'm also not surprised to hear it's not very good.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

I've heard from some reviews that it's the best one out of the three.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Which I'm not a fan of the first one, and the second one has gotten the worst reviews of the three.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Correct. I hear um the third one from some reviews I trust that the third one potentially is the best of the three because the villain is the best in Chaplin.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Wouldn't it be that hard? No. Um I think once again, the the the Avatar movies, I get it, they look fantastic. I understand. The first one was a complete waste of my time. The whole time I felt like that movie was written as they were shooting. Because they had that whole bit in like the middle of the movie where you know the romance has been developing, and then they get ready to quote unquote mate. And she goes, When we mate, we mate for life. And I'm like, so this guy is essentially killing the royal line of this village.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

That's interesting. I never thought of it that way.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

He's a fucking human in a suit.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

He feels real to himself and to her, but he knows in the back of his mind that he's hooked up to a machine back at headquarters.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Yeah. And do they know that he is what he is yet? That's I don't recall.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

They knew what he was from the jump.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

And at that point in the movie, he hasn't fully transferred over yet. That happens. No, that at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

They don't even you don't even know that that can happen. They try to do that later with Sigorny Weaver's character. That's right. And that's why I know that because I'm thinking when I'm watching the scene, I'm like, he's fucking human. When the humans pack up and go, he goes with them. Because they're gonna take his equipment, he's not gonna be able to do the avatar machine, so he's gotta go. And then they're like, oh, that's that's a good point, future watcher. You know what? Let's try to find a way to make his soul part of the avatar. And I know also, like you were saying, that the villagers all knew that he was human because they've already done the song and dance with Sigourney Weaver and the other teachers, and they weren't interested in them at all. But they're interested in the marine guy because it's the first time they're using a warfare person in an avatar body. I forget how they refer to him, but the chief tells the daughter, we must learn everything we can from this guy. Yeah, they wait, they learn absolutely fucking nothing from him the whole time, but they teach him everything about their society.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Everything. And then when he tells them that they're basically defenseless, they're shocked.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Movie makes no fucking sense.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I got several. Which one of which one of which I understand the second one fixed, which was those avatar bodies are super fucking expensive. They have to be. Like right now, if we were to do that, how much do you think that would cost? Two, three billion dollars to grow one of those?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

I wouldn't say it would cost that much, because you're talking about oh no. I would say I would say the the suit itself, maybe, but as a whole, the project would be probably in the hundreds of billions because you're talking about you're talking about uh and this is just us, we don't know the science or any of the hypothetical science, right? But but you're talking about a multitude of different things. One transferring consciousness, which we haven't figured out how to do yet, permanently, right? Yeah, permanently into a created uh being, essentially, or a mimicked created being. And at this point, we have to assume that this science is somewhere in the future, uh, because consciousness has yet to be even fully mapped at it at our current state of existence, right? Um and and not only that, you're talking about entirely different worlds.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

You know, it's it's almost so you're saying that this project is more expensive than even I'm thinking. Oh, I think so. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so my point was when they started doing this project, it was to learn about them, and the villagers had no interest. So whoever's financing this fucking project has stopped financing this project after the first couple. They're not gonna continue to do it for 10, 12 years, however long it is.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Well, the ultimate goal, which is really I get what the ultimate goal was, right? Is to take it out.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

The point is the project's not working, they're not gonna keep funding it, they're not gonna spend billions and billions or hundreds of billions of dollars to do this over a long period of time if it doesn't work. And at no point during this whole buildup to the to the moment when Sully gets there, does the military guy who actively wants to go to war with these people ever say, Hey, we come up to these fucking guys' kneecaps, you know it'd be great is if instead of giving it to the teachers for the project that doesn't work, how about if you let us use those? That's how military works. If you find the cure for cancer tomorrow, the military's gonna want to know how to use it. You know, every movie tells you that. Every movie throughout history, the military immediately wants to weaponize whatever they have. So why did it take 20 years and two movies for them to figure out to militarize the Avatar Project? Total bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Because it's a movie.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

It's a movie, but it's not a very good movie. But it looked fantastic. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

And you know, uh James Cameron has been on the cusp of reinvigorating cinema uh a few different times. He did it with Terminator 2 when that came out, because some of the CGI used there hadn't even been created yet, and same goes for Avatar.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Well, yeah, the CGI for Terminator 2 is still better than a lot of CGI we get now.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yeah, that's that's the crazy part. Um, you know, he did it again with Titanic. I mean, he's that's kind of the claim he makes. He he really is an important figure in cinema and movie making for what he's contributed to it. Agreed. Nobody can ever take that away from him.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

No, he's the king of the world.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

And unfortunately, he doesn't have his rose. Yeah. Well, he did.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

She was in the second movie. She she I keep seeing things today about how Kate Winslett has the uh underwater breathing record because of uh Avatar 2. She beat Tom Cruise.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

No, but I'm I'm talking about Cameron's real life rose. Oh, well, he's married, isn't he? Wasn't he married to Bigelow? He was married to Catherine Bigelow. That's what I'm referring to.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Okay, but then he was married to Linda Hamilton, and him and Linda Hamilton split because he was sleeping with Suzy Amos on the set of Titanic. I did not know that. Who, to my knowledge, he is still married to.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Wow. See that part I didn't know. I I was specifically referring to Catherine Bigelow as his rose.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

To my knowledge, he's got a couple roses. He's got a bouquet, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yeah, so he threw the first two off the off the door in the middle of the freezing water. So anyways, um So that's my hot avatar take. Yeah. I enjoyed the first one for what it is. I was unpressed with the second one. Uh I feel like it was just a regurgitation of the first one. And I'm assuming the third one will probably be very similar to that. But the third one looks the best out of all three, I think. And I'd be curious to watch it strictly just for that.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

And If you let me know how it is, because I'll pass.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Yeah. And I'm also, you know, excited about seeing the trailers for Doomsday, and hopefully, if it's in there, I'm hearing now that it's not from people of who have gone and seen Avatar that the Odyssey prologue is not in the trailers, that it was only on the 70 millimeter special screenings of Sinners in one battle after another.

unknown 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Well, no, I know it was on the Avatar one too, but it was on select ones. I don't think it was on because they made it sound like it was going to be on all of them.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yeah, that's literally when they said six-minute prologue for the Odyssey, I was like, I'm there. I I I'll just stay to watch that and forget about the Avatar movie. You know?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

But um the the way I understand is not every showing had it. I did hear the prologue was good, which I hope it was because the preview we got today was kind of lackluster. That's how you see, that's how you felt, but I felt completely opposite. Nothing happened in that trailer. I felt like the little teaser trailer of John Burnt all talking and Matt Damon on the floating piece of wood in the ocean. That was way more exciting than what they showed me on a two-minute trailer.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

I disagree.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

They they didn't show anything on the trailer. Yeah, they did. The opening showed Anne Hathaway standing there looking sad.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

The the trailer started off with Odysseus and Agamegmom. Okay. I mean, he's like a notorious king and warrior in Greek mythology.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

I I get it. But without the context, it's a guy kneeling in front of another guy in darker armor.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Which is in itself interesting because Matt Damon is the lead and he's he's kneeling in front of somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Oh okay. But it's still like you're you're looking at it from this grand scale. I know the story, I'm looking for an exciting preview, and that wasn't it.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

I think the cinematography alone in the previews was fantastic. You had multiple scenes, one when with them on the water, because they're actually on the water. They were at sea for weeks filming those scenes.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

I I get it. But once again, you're looking at technical stuff. I'm looking for exciting. This is the Odyssey. This is gonna be badass, and all they've shown me so far is water coming over the bow of a bridge and a shadowy cyclops coming into a cave. That's true, and those were the exciting parts. And the uh got no sense of the story whatsoever, and them pulling the Trojan horse out of the sea. Uh, you know what? I I didn't really catch that when I watched it, but if if that was, it was so far away, it wasn't obvious to me. Yeah, it's like it would have looked better on a screen, but yeah. I don't know. I was not impressed with the trailer.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

I'm excited. I think I'm still excited. Yeah, for the general public, you're probably right that it's not anything to be extremely excited about. But I think for those of us who are a fan of Nolan's work, we're extremely excited. And I think for those of us who you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Uh I feel like the last couple movies of his have been major whiffs. Major whiffs.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

And I think most people would disagree with you.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

There there's a debate.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Yeah. And you know, as I was saying, the other half of people I think are extremely excited about the historical epic of the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Well, and and that's what I'm excited for.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Mm-hmm. That's what I'm excited for too, because I love Greek mythology.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I do too, and I'm excited for the movie, and I'm sure it's gonna be great. I'm sure it's gonna look fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

I just think that what they did in a minute teaser, they weren't able to replicate in a two-minute preview.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah. Something I was that caught me off guard, and maybe I was expecting maybe to hear some level of accents in the individual's characters, but I didn't hear any. And maybe that's just a wrong assumption to assume that maybe they would portray a level of accents to accentuate the region of where their the movie takes place because they filmed in a lot of different historical locations based on where they assume, you know, uh the references took place. But yeah, I I I was a little surprised by that when I heard Matt Damon speak, and I was like, oh, there's no accent there. But who knows?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I wasn't surprised by that. Yeah. Um, the the the biggest issue that I've caught with accents and that I've noticed them trying to get away from is how ridiculous it looks.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I I don't like that. When Harrison Ford's doing a Russian accent, everyone's like, the fuck is this about?

SPEAKER_03 14:44

No, I I I get that. And and part of me is surprised but also relieved that they're not going to try to pull off something that may actually hurt the film as opposed to do something good for it.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Yeah, well, like um, I remember talking to a guy at uh back in the blockbuster days, Valkyrie was on uh DVD, and uh they have a very specific moment in that, much like the hunt for Red October, where Tom Cruise is speaking German because his character's German, and he's giving orders to a German soldier, and at some point they switch and he's speaking English, and from that point on, the whole movie is in English, and somebody commented, Well, it's so stupid, there was no German accents, and this guest made a very astute observation that when you speak French or German or Norwegian or what have you, you don't have an accent. You have an accent when you try to speak a different language.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Absolutely, and and that's a very logical and reasonable explanation.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

And I can completely get on board as to not using accents in English to try to, you know, mimic uh a foreign region. I'm okay with that. I just that was one of my observations because sometimes in movies you do see that, and that's why I I thought it was interesting that they didn't choose to do that. At least from the preview, they didn't choose to do that. Now, I don't know. Maybe with spelled certain characters, I could see Ben Safety maybe having an imposing sounding voice just because they make his character look very imposing in that opening sequence.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Well, yeah, well, and he probably I mean, he's from another region. So it's possible.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

He's a Greek army leader. I mean, he's uh he has a a crazy, I mean, crazy historical story in the sense of like, you know, sacrificing his daughter and then being, you know, backstabbed and murdered by his wife. So it'll be interesting to see if they explore that at all, or if they just use him because he's because Agamemnon's not really I don't know. I haven't read that story in such a long time, but I don't recall how much he's referenced in in Odysseus's story. Do you recall?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Uh not much, but I'm gonna say he probably doesn't have a lot in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah, I don't either. I think it's a very specific moment in time, probably during the Trojan War that he is referenced.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Because I know they're gonna do Circe.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Supposedly that's Charlie's Theron playing Circe.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Uh I feel like they're gonna stick to Odysseus's journey. They're not gonna go into the the too deeply into some of these characters.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Yeah, they're they just won't have time. I think they're focusing on him, and from what the preview looks like, I think they're focusing on his journey back home.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah, absolutely. They would have to. Yeah, because they're only doing one movie. If they were doing it Dune style and they were doing two, it might be different.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Yeah, yeah. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Well, let's talk about something more positive. I feel like I've been a negative Nancy this whole time. Ah, I just I just I wanted to rustle your feathers a little bit. Oh, you you did. I feel like such an asshole right now. Avatar sucks, the Odyssey did into the preview sucks.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Oh, and I I didn't even touch on how excited I am about Marty Supreme yet, but we can save that for another day.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

We'll save that for another day. Well let's let's save Marty Supreme for when we both seen it.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Deal. Deal.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

All right.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

I'll probably go on Christmas to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Uh, I probably won't go on Christmas, but I might try to go over Jen's Christmas break.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Okay, cool. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Because Jen said she would go see it, so we'll go check it out together.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Cool. Awesome. So there were two movies that we both saw, to my understanding, over this time from our last recording. And the first one I want to bring up and talk about with you uh and fill in our our our viewers on is Wake Up Dead Man. So what'd you what'd you what'd you think about Wake Up Dead Man, Wade?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I fucking loved Wake Up Dead Man.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I thought I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

You said something along the lines about it being your favorite movie of the year, am I right?

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Um if I'm being honest, it probably is of the things I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Like I'm trying to recall exactly what I've seen, but you know, I I know I saw the Thunderbolts, I saw Fantastic Four, I saw Um Keeper, I saw Superman, I saw Keeper, that little horror movie. I saw Begonia, which was really good. Weapons. I saw Weapons, that was really good. Uh the Guillermo del Toros Frankenstein. Mm-hmm. Uh, I feel like I didn't see a lot of new movies this year. Yeah. I'm really hoping not as many as I used to, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

I'm really hoping you get around to watching Hamnet, though.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Uh, it'll be hard. Like it it's just it's not a story that catches my attention. But what did you think of Wake Up Dead Man?

SPEAKER_03 20:13

I really liked it. I wouldn't say it's my favorite movie of the year, but I really enjoyed it. And you know, it was different than the first two. I felt like this one wasn't so much like a murder mystery that was trying to be solved. I felt like it was a much more existential or philosophical conversation on like the meaning of life and the motives behind people's intentions and and why they do things as they go through their emotions. That's really what I got from the movie. Because I think it's pretty clear towards the end that Daniel Craig, you know, uh Ben Wall's character his character knew pretty quickly who the killer was.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

I I don't think he necessarily knew exactly who the killer was, but I think he knew um a lot more than he was letting on throughout the whole course of the movie. But I I will say it still was very much like solving the murder, how did this happen, who did it, but there was more of an existential um aspect to it. I think the first two were very much about rich people being rich.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Whereas this one still had a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

No, this one was actually kind of the opposite. It actually was about the the power behind greed and the desire to become rich. Because when we look at Brolin's character, I mean, everything he did was in pursuit of the Eve's apple, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Well I Don't feel like that's necessarily true. I don't think he believed that there was money because he had grown up knowing there was no money. And then his intentions did change significantly once he knew that there was money.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

So would you say he was just a asshole? Absolutely. Which Brolin plays perfectly. He oh, he was great. He was great in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Um he was fantastic. He was really good. Yeah, he he was great. I I just thought the movie was a lot of fun. Um I thought that the crime was a lot of fun. That that was an issue I had with the second movie, was I didn't it took a long time for there to be a crime. You know?

SPEAKER_03 22:48

And then it went rather quickly.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

And then it went rather quickly. So like something happened like months ago that is kind of what he's investigating, but kind of not. And then Dave Batista died like toward the end of the movie, and then it's like, oh no, this is the crime we're trying to solve. And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Yeah, I felt I felt the same way about number two, although I liked it. I did like it too. And I actually really enjoyed in Wake Up Dead Man that it happened relatively early, but that they they kind of spin it on you because almost immediately Daniel Craig's character says, I don't know how this could have happened. And then you're kind of thrown for a curveball. It's like, okay, because this is interesting because he's never really admitted defeat in these cases in the past. And he's he's known to be the guy that can solve anything. So I think they played on that pretty well, but it was more so as the movie goes on, you notice it as more of like a reflection of his inner turmoil with his grasping of faith or second chances or motives and all these different things that I mentioned, these existential questions of life that I think in in this third installment have his character go about solving the murder differently.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah. Well, and one of my favorite parts of the movie is when you realize he kind of already knows some of it before he gets there. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like everybody suspects um, what's his name? O'Connor. Mm-hmm. The the priest at the center of the movie. Every everyone suspects him. And even when uh they have the whole bit, you know, oh, this case came right out of this locked door mystery novel that turns out to be part of the the church's reading list that everyone did the book club for.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

And he lays out the different ways that you kill somebody in a locked room that are in the book, and then later Mila Cooney shows up and goes, she goes, You didn't mention the fourth, and most likely, which was the first person to enter the room, did it, which would have been the priest.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

And he just kind of shrugs it off, like, yeah, I ignored that. Because in his head, he knows that the priest didn't do it, but he knows Renner did it. Spoilers. But you know, this this you should have watched the movie by now.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Well, Renner with Glenn Close's character.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah, I mean there was a there was a lot more, but he knows Renner was the guy to stab him.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And he knew that when he got there. So he was not shocked by a lot.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

No.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, I I thought it was a fun movie, it was very entertaining.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I would watch it again.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yeah, I thought, like I said earlier, Brolin was fantastic. He is so despising that you hate him every time you see him come on the screen.

unknown 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

You know? Um, and his confessions with Josh O'Connor's character of the priest are just straight out funny.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Oh, yeah, that whole sequence was great. I love the framing device of uh him writing out what happened.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, that was all great.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Um, but for me, you know, uh Glenn Close in that ending sequence really steals the show for me. That that that whole bit for me is really good.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

So what what was the other movie you mentioned?

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Well, the other movie mentioned was Eddington on HBO Max. Eddington. Which I was really upset about that I didn't get to see in theaters, but it was only in theaters what felt like a week or something, like hardly any time.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Oh, that's a that's a movie targeted at adults for you.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah, absolutely targeted for adults.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

So uh I would like to point out before we continue the discussion about Eddington, that it was uh filmmaker John Waters' favorite movie of the year.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

And he said that if you do not like this movie, I hate you. That was his quote. That's really what he said. That's really what he said. He said, if you don't like this movie, I hate you.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Hmm. Well, so let's get into it. Let's uh let's get into it. Let's start with whatever you want to start with, Wade. I'm I really I'm gonna say I really enjoyed the movie. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

And I'm gonna say that I hated every second of the movie. Oh wow, you did. I hated it to be Mr. Negative Nancy again. Let me let me tell you how much I hated this movie. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Uh I don't know if I'm ready. I would that's not what I was expecting you to say.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

This movie is two hours 40 minutes?

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Close to it, yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

I stopped watching it at one hour 39 minutes and watched Spinal Tap 2 instead.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

So you didn't even finish it.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

I couldn't. I I was so annoyed by everything and every person in that movie.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Yeah, and I I think you turned it off just when shit was gonna hit the fan.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Well, I turned it off the exact moment I turned it off was when he went to that little Mexican restaurant to do his campaign speech. Mm-hmm. And he made baseless accusations based off of a little bit that he knows, a little tiny bit of information that he has. He makes baseless accusations that Pedro Pascal raped Emma Stone when they were in high school, got her pregnant, and forced her to have an abortion. And at this point, Emma Stone already doesn't want to talk to her husband because he's running for mayor and she's fucking pissed because she doesn't want to deal with any of what he's now using as a platform. And I was just like so annoyed by this point because I wanted I wanted to punch this guy in the face because he was so stupid at everybody. Like the moment he did that, I was like, oh my god, I can't even deal with this movie anymore. But couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

You you saw the the undertone. I mean, they they hint at it throughout the home sequences of her father did it.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Absolutely, her father did it.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Correct. And that's the the sickness within the home is that both the mother of Emma Stone's character and Joaquin Phoenix's character, the the the sheriff, are both in denial about the truth.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

And they live this whole life. I mean, from the beginning of the movie onset with COVID, and you know, the only time Pedro Pascal's character is portrayed as a bad guy or or the problem is through Joaquin Phoenix's eyes. Everywhere else he's doing the right thing. And I think that's really important to the script.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

But yeah, and I agree, he was the only person in the movie I did like.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

The only person. Even his son annoyed the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

You you turn it off right when it starts getting crazy, dude.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Oh, I just couldn't do it anymore. Uh at one point I caught myself checking my phone and I was like, fuck.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

So in the next 10 minutes preceding that, he kills the bum. He he he okay. That's funny. And he kills Pedro Pascal and his son. Oh, wow. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

That is pretty wild.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

And and then shit just hits the fan the rest of the movie, to be honest with you. It's it's a fucking thrill ride the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

All right. Maybe I'll have to finish it. I don't know. I just I had such a hard time with it. Like it it perfectly illustrated every issue, and this is probably why. Like, I don't think it was a badly made movie. I don't think it was a bad movie. I hated it. Because it perfectly illustrated to me everything that's wrong with our society.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Absolutely. I think they did probably the best job out of any movie I've seen in recent years articulating that.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah, because it really was just society is fucking out of control and everyone's nuts. You like you said, you had the sheriff who is supposed to be upholding this um the mask mandate, and he's one of those people who are running around going, I shouldn't have to wear a mask, and it's like, we all need to wear the mask, just wear it. It's not that big of a deal. We'll get through this quicker. And he's like, No, stomping my foot, stomping my foot. And then, you know, his wife is, you know, how she is.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah. Let me tell you how this scene goes down. Okay. Okay. Oh, all right. He leaves where at the restaurant where he makes his speech, right? Okay. And then he gets a noise disturbance call. D do we really want to go through this with the listeners, though? I don't know. It's pretty quick. I was gonna do it in a minute. Okay, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

So he gets a noise disturbance call.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

At the mayor's house. So he goes to the mayor's house, and when he gets well, he walks in, they're playing this loud music or whatever, and there's a bunch of people, everybody's shocked to see him. And on the TV as he's walking through, Emma Stone's correction of the incidences is playing on the TV.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

He goes and turns off the TV, goes and confronts the mayor, or actually, he just turns off the music and walks away. Then Pascal's character turns it up, and they go through this back and forth of turning on the music, turning off the music about three times. And then when Joaquin Phoenix's character goes to turn it off the next time, Pedro Pascal's character just slaps them in the face a few times. Fair enough. And he just walks away. And you could tell it's complete and utter shame, but he doesn't know what to do. Like he's defenseless, and he leaves. And as he's going into town, he sees this unhinged homeless man that keeps coughing, which ironically ends up giving him COVID later.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

That that's pretty funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Yeah. But he's tearing up the bar that he kicked him out of previously.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

He just kills him. And then he disposes of the body, like cleans it up, disposes of the body in the river. And then you're like, this is crazy, right? Like he just committed a murder as the sheriff and then hit all the evidence. And the next scene goes to Pedro Pascal and his son. They're just hanging out in the house. And next thing you know, like you just think you're you're watching a scene of dialogue between the son and the father about various different things. And then next thing you know, Pedro Pascal's on the couch, and just a bullet just comes right through the window and goes right through his freaking chest, and you're like, oh shoot. Yeah. Like, oh shoot.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Well, I'll give I'll give Ari Aster this. He he he knows how to surprise. That was I definitely would not have seen the movie at that point going that way. But yeah, I was just I was just so aggravated watching the movie, and I was really not interested in seeing where it was gonna go at that point. Maybe if I would have stuck around another few minutes, like you said, it would have been a different story.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

But uh it just went too far for me. Like it was just pushing me towards an edge and I didn't want to deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Yeah, and and honestly, I was almost there because the first hour and a half of the movie is really there's nothing amazing about the first hour and a half of the movie. I think there's things we could talk about that, as we've mentioned, they did very well, but nothing stands out as to say, wow, this is a two and a half hour long movie that is amazing. But I think as a whole, I really liked it. But I I definitely think it's a movie you gotta watch all the way through, and I think it it turns the corner very well because the rest of the movie has nothing to do with anything at the first hour and a half outside of the general context of the story and its characters. Gotcha.

unknown 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

All right. Well, like I said, maybe I'll have to sit down and watch the the last what hour?

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah, hour and ten minutes, give or take. Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

All right. Well, did you wanna did you want to do this shit?

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Yeah. So for those of you who may not know, maybe this is the first episode you clicked on because sometimes when you go to the podcasts, it starts with the most recent one as opposed to the first one. But we are up all night cinema. We are your hosts. My name is Adrian. Say hello, Wade.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

I'm the greatest swordsman who ever lived. I've been saving that one.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Okay. Where's that one from?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

That's Willow, man. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's Willow. Val Kilmer, mad Mortigan.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

That's Val yeah, that's right. R.A.P. Val Kilmer. That's one we lost this year.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yeah, yeah. R.I.P. Val.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

That's an unfortunate one.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

He was the man.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

He was the man. He was the Batman.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

He was the Doc Holiday.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Um yeah, so today's topic. Today's topic. Today's topic is gonna be another Genvelope.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yes, sir. I we got three more. We got three more. We got three more genvelopes here for you to pick from.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

Now, the first one was purple number five. Mm-hmm. And we had a second one.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah. Well, what were the topics?

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Do you remember? Like the what was the first topic? The first topic was something related to Blockbuster. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Well, well, so the first topic was um movies that we were embarrassed to admit that we had seen.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

And then the second one was movies that if we worked at Blockbusters still today, we would recommend.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Hmm, that's right. Both really good topics.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

They were both both great topics. I'm excited to see what we come up with this time.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Yeah, I I I'm sensing a trend here related to Blockbuster, so I'm wondering if it's another Blockbuster included topic. Uh I don't know. We'll have to see. We'll see. Are you uh are you ready to do the honors since you have the envelopes?

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Well well, yeah, but it's it's your episode, man, so you get to pick. You did you want to do a color or a number?

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Uh what am I left with? What colors am I left with?

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Uh green, blue, and pink.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Green, blue, and pink. Okay. Let's go with blue. Okay, that's number three. I felt a little blue this week, so let's go with blue. No. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Spill the beans, Wade. As Warren Beatty would say, La La Land. No, that's I'm just kidding. There's an Oscar joke for you. Oh, here's one that Adrian's gonna like. Uh-oh. Top five gangster movies.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Ooh, that's a good topic.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah. Oh that's an Adrian topic if I ever heard one.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Why is that an Adrian topic? You love gangster movies too. I like gangster movies, absolutely. Ooh, that's a good topic. Jen, if you're listening right now, which you probably are, she'll hear it. That's a great topic. I really like that topic.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah, that is a that is a good one. All right, so who gets who gets the start?

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Wow. Well, we've talked about one in the past that I think we should just put out there. I don't think it's necessarily a directly gangster movie, but it's definitely a heist. They can be considered gangsters because they're criminals, but uh, you know, we'll we've talked about heat before. Talked about heat before.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Yeah, so so yeah, that's a good so let's define like what are you talking about when we talk about gangster movies.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

And I think that's what my idea behind mentioning heat is that I think there's a lot of things that can be considered gangster movies based on what you define as gangster movies. Yeah, I we can get very specific, um, or we can keep it a little broad um and include, you know, criminal style movies or mob movies, because mobs are gangsters.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Mob movies for sure.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

I think we can we can definitely uh define where we kind of want our our thoughts to go with with this topic.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Well, here's my question. This is the only question I feel like is important to this discussion. Are the main characters the gangsters?

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Like that's really the divide that I see in my mind. Yes. Is the main character the gangster or is it just revolve around gangsters?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

It's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Uh I I say let's go broad and just include gangsters. I feel like heist movies, maybe not. If there's a heist in the movie, okay. But you know, you need to be able to look at them. Like he, yes, it's a gang, but I consider them to be thieves. I don't consider them to be gangsters.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

But the the lead character of that movie could be a toss-up between Al Pacino and Robert De Niro, and Robert De Niro is a thief, and Al Pacino is a cop. So I would still consider that, you know, from that standpoint, a gangster movie.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Even though it's a movie about thieves, so I don't think he counts. But if the main character was Al Pacino, that would still count in the yeah discussion.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, I think the broader range is better, and I think for the audience, we'll be able to plug in a broader range of movies that might pique their interest based on what the discussion is about on each one. So I think that's the right move to make, and I'm I'm in a hundred percent agreement with you. All right. So do you have one already? Do you wanna you wanna go and start us off since I chose the envelope? I feel like that's the friendly thing to do here.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

That's that's mighty nice of you, sir. Uh, I do I do have one. Uh one I mean, a couple things popped into mind immediately. Yes, same for me. But the the number one that I want to talk about is the untouchables. Mm-hmm. Uh it's I mean, it's Al Capone. Yeah, it is. It's about Elliot Ness and his little group of guys capturing Al Capone. It was uh based off of a TV series from I think the 50s.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

But it was written.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Guess what?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

What? It's on Tubi. Of course it is. Of course it is. But um, yeah, so it's uh Kevin Costner plays Elliot Ness. Robert De Niro plays Al Capone.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Sean Connery won uh an Academy Award for best supporting actor for playing the beat cop because Jim Malone. Jim Malone, yeah. So it it's really about all the corruption. So, you know, Al Capone during Prohibition, he's running alcohol into the city, uh, Chicago, and he's pretty much unchecked. And Elliot Ness is a treasury officer who is tasked with you know stopping this, bringing Capone down, and he he can't do it. Nothing he nothing he's doing is working, he's feeling a little dejected, and so he starts putting together this motley crew, including uh an IRS agent who wants to prosecute Capone for tax evasion because he hasn't filed a return in like 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Um, a cop who's in training played by Andy Garcia, and he's amazing in the movie. And most notably, Sean Connery is kind of the weathered older beat cop who just never risked his life and is still a beat cop because he decided that getting to retirement alive was more important than catching the bad guys.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

Yeah. But he also has his idea. He has the beat cop experience.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

He has the beat cop experience and he has the knowledge. So, you know, when they finally, you know, get the crew together and he's like, Okay, let's do this. Are you ready? Because he tells he tells Elliott Ness, he's like, once we walk through this door, there's no going back. There's no going back. And Elliot Ness is there's no going back. And Elliot S is like, let's fucking do it. So they got their shotguns, they're going on a raid, and they walk across the street from the police station to the post office, where in the back room they're loading. liquor into crates for shipment because the system is so fucking corrupt and Elliott Ness kind of digs into that and upsets Capone's operations to the you know the point where they do get him for tax evasion.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

It's uh I like I like those old Prohibition movies. I like the Cops and Robbers thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

You know, they got this uh amazing gunfight in the train station.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

So good. Like I know a lot of people will take uh the John Wick style of gunfight but I'll take the the train station gunfight any day over John Wick. It's classic. It's classic.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

And you know for so many generations that style of gunfight defined a good action movie or a good action sequence.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Oh absolutely and it was very suspensefully directed Mr. Brian De Palma who we've talked about a couple times on here already you know and the music in that movie.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

It's very good.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

I I know you like a good score and Enyo Morricone's score for that movie is great.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Yep I agree I agree. Yeah that's uh that's a solid one I'm glad you mentioned it because I was eventually gonna mention it.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Good I'm I'm glad that I beat you to that one.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

I really like the scene when uh Sean Connery meets Andy Garcia's character in the uh in the gun range. Oh yeah the first time you're meeting him yeah the first time they meet yeah that scene is kind of one I remember very specifically from the movie uh the train the train uh shootout is another one um the untouchables is definitely considered one of the best you know gangster or mob movies of all time and and for good reason absolutely yeah and and I think there's so much to Al Capone's character and history that you could talk about um and I really like that they chose to go from the story of the good guys you know against the bad guy and I think a lot of the stuff that they do with Al Capone is either in a biopic form I know there's there's been quite a few things that have been done on Al Capone in that fashion. So I appreciate this way like you mentioned it's more of like a cops and robbers it's almost a uh you know like a I think it's a much more detailed and eventful story when you when you present the facts of both sides, right? Because just as much as Al Capone has a history that you can make in a movie of itself, you have the other side of the of the government and the agents and the policemen that also you know had to go toe to toe with Al Capone and try to put him in a trap so they can actually legally lock him away.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

And I think that they had to find a workaround.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

And that I think that's all really interesting because quite literally Al Capone at the at that moment in time was untouchable.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Oh he was he absolutely was he ran everything. Yeah he he did he ran the he ran the whole show and yeah he he just ran Chicago yeah and Elliot Nuss was the boy scout who comes to town you know won't take a bribe you can't bribe my men yeah it's it's an exciting movie though the only thing I will say is they blatantly get a piece of history wrong in that movie by killing one character which is unfortunate but it is a great sequence yeah so I forgive it.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

And you know I think there's some that piece of the movie definitely adds a little something to the rest of it right there's a an an extra motive to get something done I think when when that happens um but you know that's Hollywood for you when it comes to movies. But to my understanding it it's pretty historically accurate the whole well yeah the whole pursuit of Al Capone.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

It it is and I know why they did it like the reason behind doing that is because they you know by doing that they had a climax to the movie. Mm-hmm because otherwise the climax to the movie is all courtroom drama.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Yeah that's true.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

So they threw in an extra action sequence to really bring the movie home which is fine. I appreciated that and it also you know it's more of a fictitious in a way movie than you know straight biopic.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

So this way they didn't you know leave like this murderous character running around in the background getting away with whatever he's done in the movie. So it wrapped up some loose ends that history didn't do for another 10 to 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

Yeah. It is what it is you know yeah that's definitely one I'd like to own in 4K I know they have it and I just haven't gotten around to buying it but I'm sure it would look great. Yeah and and I just think it's a it's a classic to own. You know there's I think this genre is very specific. You know there's some genres I think where you can throw a lot of movies into but the gangster mobster genre I think probably is one of those genres that that like all the movies could be iconic if that makes sense all at least all the ones I think we're thinking of potentially yeah there's very few that it's like ooh that's bad. Yeah because because there's although we love these types of movies they don't make them that often no not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

They they were making them for a hot minute for a while there.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Yes uh it's not something you see a a lot of in the 21st century.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Well yeah supposedly the mob is gone the way of the dodo and I don't necessarily believe that but I think they've managed to hide themselves behind legitimacy better.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

You know they're not driving around the street with Tommy guns just wasting other you know guys in the street over you know turf or wrongdoing or disrespect. Yeah you know so well so what's your first movie? You got a first movie? Of course I do I can't wait what you got I'm gonna stick with the Brian de Palma theme and go with Scarface. That's a that's a popular one there. That's a popular one.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Um Scarface for me I remember watching it from a very young age because it's my dad's favorite movie. Mm-hmm and I was just completely floored by that movie watching it at such a young age.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Um it it's it's violent man.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

Yes it's very violent very violent. I think it still goes up as one of Al Pacino's best roles you gotta throw it up there with heat and scent of a woman and Scarface and I mean there's some other ones Dog Day afternoon. Dog Day afternoon I mean I mean there's very few that I would say maybe these B movies that he's made in the last 10 years because he was broke or something. I don't know but um even then he's gonna be the best part of any of those movies probably too. But I'm sure I'm sure but uh Scarface is is just something different um you know obviously it's the story of Tony Montana and starting from nothing and turning into this huge drug lord kingpin and ultimately the very thing that got him rich is the very thing that kills him right that's the movie as it does to a lot of these guys. Yeah that's the movie in a nutshell um yeah but I mean there's so many like vivid scenes in that movie for me like the scene with the chainsaw in the hotel room.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Well that's the scene that is the scene that's when you know you're watching something wild.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Yeah that's the scene uh I think Michelle Pfeiffer's captivating uh oh she's great um she's so good uh along with um I forget her name but the the um the actress that plays his sister Gina she's isn't phenomenal isn't that Mary Elizabeth Masterino it is it is yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's the name color of money in the abyss mm-hmm yeah um that's yeah she's fantastic especially that ending sequence to the movie where oh you know she's just coked out of her mind and comes on to him and then she ends up getting killed and then that's the the falling domino for him going crazy you know it it's just yeah I mean that that whole ending sea there may not be a better ending sequence to a movie that I've seen that whole it'd be it'd be hard to find.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

I mean uh Brian De Palma knocked it out of the park with this one I think I mean you know because yeah he's you know pulling out that giant gun with like the grenades in it oh yeah and he he gets shot like 40 times but he doesn't feel it because he's coked out of his mind so coked out of his mind every every time I think of Scarface like it comes up a lot on Instagram and whatnot but every time I think of that movie I don't know how big of a Lonely Island fan you are not not really to be honest with you because I'm not a huge fan of Andy Sandberg and that's fair but I I do like Lonely Island but I always I'll have to send you the video later if you haven't seen it but they have a they have a video where they're recording a a song you know it's like a rap song where they're going to the club and they're making out with the girls and we're gonna take these girls home and we're gonna do these things and they have Michael Bolton there to like sing the chorus and so he's in the club with them and he's just like yeah like every couple minutes and and then it gets to the chorus and he wrote a what he refers to as a big sexy hook for the movie and he starts singing about Captain Jack Sparrow. Oh really yeah so like they're singing about being in the club and being pimps and players and he's singing about Captain Jack Sparrow on the seven C's and stuff and they're like what the fuck are you talking about? And so finally they tell him in the middle of the song hey man they'll knock that shit off and he's like okay let me try a different movie and you know he goes through a couple different ones and then he gets to Tony Montana sniffing mountains of cocaine and he's just sitting there dressed like Al Pacino with this mountain of powder and he's got it all over his face and he's just like holding it like sand in an Indiana Jones movie and it's running through his fingers.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Funniest shit.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

And you know that that's the reality though there's at some point in the movie and it's kind of the same out outlying message as Al Capone is that Tony Montana thinks he's untouchable which he is at some point in the movie and and the the greed and the power and obviously the drug addiction gets the best of him as it always does. As it always does and um you know I I think at the start of the movie he's this you know likable guy that just wants to get ahead anti-communist you know this sort of thing. He plays that role as the Cuban very well but obviously as the movie goes on you know money reveals who the real character is and you see that he probably really wasn't a really good person to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Yeah or he may have been at one time but you know based on instincts man.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

But he essentially kills everybody that's close to him either because of paranoia or one reason or another. He doesn't end up trusting anybody by the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

No. Those guys never do I would I really need to see that movie again.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

It's been a hot minute dude I love that movie uh I own it and I mean this conversation is making me think about it again. I mean I think of I think of Steven Bauer as Manny. I mean he was great he ends up getting ill-fated best friend yeah then you have Mark McGolis that plays uh Alberto right okay yeah I don't remember that part of the movie no um well it's been a while Scarface is great I probably haven't seen it in 10 years or 15 years but it's probably been about that for me about 15 years or more. But I've probably seen it you know 10 times yeah I've I've seen it a couple I've seen a couple yeah I used to watch it once a year you know I remember for one Christmas I got my dad like the special edition double disc when it came out yeah and uh it's probably somewhere in storage but but yeah Scarface that's my that's my first one to use her yeah on to you for your second one.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Well you kept it with Brian De Palma for the from my first to your first so from your first to my second I'm gonna keep it with Al Pacino. I had a feeling you were going to go that route yeah do you know what movie I'm gonna I'm gonna do uh maybe all right well let's see spoil it I feel like there's a 50-50 chance here you're you're thinking of the right movie but I'm gonna go with Carlito's way ah okay if I was gonna say Donnie Brasco I figured but yeah Donnie Brasco he was great in Donnie Brasco yeah I don't necessarily think overall the movie's all that fantastic but he was great in Donnie Brasco I would say Donnie Brasco's about a six or seven yeah yeah I'm in agreement with that but Carlito's way that's a nine nine point five yeah Carlito's way is fantastic. Uh I just I rewatched that movie last year I actually watched that in Donnie Brasco again last year I got on a weird kick.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

But but you also technically stick with the Brian De Palma thing.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

Oh yeah because that's Brian De Palma too isn't it yeah it is I forgot entirely about that yeah it is Brian that's that's why I was thinking to myself I was like wait a minute isn't that Brian da Palma too you're right I I totally forgot I was just thinking about Pacino yeah that is De Palma which makes sense because the ending of that movie is so fucking suspenseful.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

Yeah it is when he's trying to get to the train so suspenseful and it's got such a great cast Sean Penn Penelope Ann Miller Luis Guzman John Leguizamo Benny from the Bronx oh Vigo's in it too that's right yeah yeah he's got a small part though like he's only in the mood I think one scene very small but I always got to highlight him when he's in it I mean Vigo was the man I miss that guy I haven't seen him well no he just did that Western I still need to see his Western that he dropped ah that was great yeah yeah that was great and guess what huh it's on tubi it's on tubi the Western no Carlito's way oh I was gonna say if the Western's on tubi I'll watch it I need to find it but uh Carlito's way like yeah for all of you who have tubi Carlito's Way is a great movie you know Pacino I forget what he went to prison for but at the beginning of the movie he gets out of prison and Sean Penn is his best friend slash lawyer and they wind up taking over this uh club it's in Miami they wind up taking over this club and Pacino starts running it right whoever was running it before did a shit job and so now it's making money and it's doing well and the the better they do the worse Sean Penn becomes correct because it's actually him who falls into that Scarface trap of letting his ego get bigger and bigger and he winds up he's been doing and continues to do crimes on the side and at one point he drags uh Carlito played by Al Pacino into it which is ultimately what Pacino winds up having to run away from yeah because through the beginning of the movie and the subsequent deal and taking over the place like he's trying to do things right because he he kind of vowed to never go down that road again.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Yeah and every time he gets into trouble it's other people who want to be big like I think it's his brother right at the beginning of the movie it's his brother his brother takes him it's um um uh it's his brother's cousin yeah it's his brother's cousin but yeah he takes him he's like hey I just need to do this thing and it turns out to be some kind of deal for drugs or something and it that quick yeah the brother gets killed and Pacino wounds up having to kill everybody in the room to get away yeah it's a bad situation but he didn't want any part of it he didn't want to go in the first place and he didn't want his brother to go when he found out what was going on. Yeah true true so every every time he gets into trouble in the movie it's because of somebody else and that's what makes it such a tragic story because he's really trying to get his life back together.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Yeah and I and I think it highlights something uh you know very real for probably a lot of people because I think people who do time and get out and I think you know there's probably a a a good number of people that really just try to do the right thing but unfortunately because of circumstances or the people they used to be involved in they get tied in somehow or another and they wind up right back where they start unfortunately well society also isn't quick to forgive also makes it tough.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Mm-hmm so that's unfair as well but yeah yeah so what about you you got a you got a second pick there man I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

All right what you got I'm gonna go with a 2007 movie okay by Ridley Scott.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

Okay this was gonna be on my list too I know what you're gonna say American gangster absolutely oh such a good movie dude it it really is I I got I got a little beef with that movie uh I'd like to hear what your what your beef is uh hopefully it's not the cast because the gas is freaking phenomenal on the case nothing with the cast the cast is great well why don't you lay out the movie a little bit tell us what's great about it and I'll tell you my beef at the end of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Okay. Well you know American gangster is loosely based on the true story of Frank Luzkis who uh is one of at that time one of the largest drug traffickers right and um essentially um he gets stuck to a similar point where he's kind of becomes untouchable essentially by taking care of the community which in a lot of instances that's what drug dealers do to gain over the favor of the community and the protection and things like that. A lot sometimes you know they they do the uh the evil things in like ransom and and and and and you know paying people to keep their businesses and and and all these things but I think in this sense it you know Frank Lucas takes care of his community to some extent and the people kind of keep him safe uh would you agree with that? Oh no absolutely yeah yeah they absolutely would and you know obviously uh Denzel Washington's character as Frank Lucas um knows that's to his benefit to keep the entire community as his eyes and ears for the people who are trying to get him now Russell Crowe plays uh Richie Roberts which is uh one of the uh police individuals along with Josh Brolin who plays um uh I forget the detective's name but he's one of the other detectives in the movies um and essentially uh Frank's character and the police character specifically Russell Crowe's character they end up from what the movie shows they end up forming this very somewhat personal bond it seems um through like the instances that happen you know but ultimately it leads to Frank getting caught and ultimately being tried um if I were to cut the sh the story short because that's kind of what happens in in terms of you know either they get away or they get caught and they get in trouble you know how most movies like these go. And I I I don't necessarily think that that does my explanation does the movie justice. I'm just trying to keep it tight. I think a lot of strokes yeah I think a lot of the a lot of the really intense moments come between Denzel and Russell Crowe's characters interactions. And by way I say intense I I don't necessarily mean the sequences that arise I I really am when I think of that movie I really am captivated by their conversations similar to the conversations that you expect to see with Al Pacino and Robert De Nier's characters in Heat. That's kind of what it reminds me of in in some degrees uh uh art uh artists and actors such as Denzel and Russell Crowe uh I think they're they're so good and then when you put two guys like that in a movie and they have so much dialogue between one another it it's hard to take your eyes off of it. And I think it really it really makes for good sequences because they both play their roles so well.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

Mm-hmm. Yeah. They're both great in that movie. Comes at the end. Comes at the very end.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Is it regarding the when he asks him to basically like basically co-op with, you know, like uh exposing people?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

No. No. Because I mean that makes sense. That's what, you know, the police do. You know, they they catch people and they find out, hey, you you got a lot of fucking corruption and I could help you find it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:31

Yeah, and according to the I mean that's I guess one part I left out, but yeah, at the end of the movie when they want to try him, I think he gives up something like half or three quarters of the of the of the New York um uh DEA or NYPD in in on in terms of who was like on his payroll really or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

And keep in mind this was based on a true story. Here's where I have a problem with the movie. Because throughout the whole movie you're seeing Russell Crowe's character going to night school because he's trying to become a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

And at the end of the movie and it's it's not even really a part of a move the movie it's like at the end when they're like, oh and this happened and then this happened and then this happened. So the movie ends and then they start telling you just like they do with true stories what happened to all the people that you've been following who are still alive at the end of the movie. So Russell Crowe's character gets a law degree and they're like and the fur his first client is Denzel Washington's character. That's true. And that's true. And that's a big part I left out. That's a big well because it's not really part of the movie. It's like something that happens at the end like when they're you know describing you know where everybody went but they don't say what he was a lawyer for. It was probably you know more civil stuff but it's implied that it's the criminal cases.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:57

Yeah that's um I guess I should rephrase implication. Yeah it's not a big part that I left out but like you said it's it's it's small in context of the movie but it's significant because it's kind of like what the hell like how did that come about because yeah I don't see how that many civil cases could have been brought about against him. It seems like you said to allude to criminal cases.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

Well it it it alludes to the case that we've been following which wouldn't make any sense because there is not a world that we live in where the arresting officer can also defend the convict in a court of law but you know after the fact you know he does get out of prison like they tell you he gets out of prison whatever it was in 2002 or whatever. Who knows what happened you know he had to sue somebody or he was trying to get money from the state I don't know like I you know whatever it is but that's probably where that relationship occurred but it wasn't the criminal trial because you know this guy's got to fucking testify later. So you can't be defending the accused but that was the implication.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:12

Yeah. And you know it's it's really interesting. I think one of the one of the morals of the story and I I think you see this theme a lot in these types of movies is that loyalty when you get in trouble is not really true loyalty sometimes. You know because um the whole the whole way that like Frank Lucas Denzel's character essentially starts his demise is because I think one of his family members is uh is wearing a wire when they're talking about the last drug deal right after the fall of uh Saigon or something like that if you remember something like that I don't remember it has been a little while since I've seen the movie. Yeah but he basically orchestrates one last heroine shipment um and he ends up essentially getting caught because um one of his family members gets caught in a crime and they basically Russell Crowe's character um gets him to to wear a wire if I'm re if I remember right and that ultimately leads to them having uh significant evidence to then you know arrest uh family members and Frank uh Denzel's character um some somebody usually wears a wire like that's yeah that's one of the things I learned from a lot of crime movies is everyone's your friend as Jean Renault says in Ronin everyone's your friend until the ret comes due. Correct and and I mean it you see that too with uh Denzel's character at the end. I mean he talks you know um he talks Roland's character ends up killing himself because he can't deal with it right he he doesn't want to get taken in cops don't go to prison yeah exactly exactly um but no I think um loosely or very factually based I I think it's probably a loose story but uh I really enjoyed the movie Denzel is fantastic as a gangster always always good but you know as a lead gangster in a movie one of the best I've seen and I think that's why I I we don't necessarily we've we're talking about top five gangster movies in in no particular order but you have to throw Denzel's performance of this movie in in the top of of of leads uh for gangster movies most definitely yeah absolutely and and no slouch no slouch to Russell Crowe being the bat the good guy either I mean he's he's great in this oh no he's great yeah yeah he's fantastic I also really liked Denzel's little scuffle he had with Cuba Gooding Jr. as like the lower drug mob boss you know um for the little time that was uh existing in the film um you know it's unfortunate unfortunate that Cuba kind of went downhill because I always really uh respected the stuff he did but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

Yeah he he just couldn't hang or something. I don't know he made some some bad choices there.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

Life got the best of them you know that happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

Yeah some sometimes it does.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:23

Yeah but um I loved all the stuff where they were in Vietnam getting you know the the heroin connection that's so that's that's and that's what I was referring to you know that's ultimately that same connection you know in the fall of Saigon because it was during you know uh the Vietnam War and stuff if I remember right like that's ultimately what leads to his arrest and if I remember right it has something to do with them not being sure if they'll be able if that channel will be available to them in the future, right? Well yeah so that yeah it looked like it was closing. Correct so and that's why I think they try to smuggle it through the servicemen's coffins and things like that. I think that was the the layout of that that that last uh drug run. They were trying to get as much as they could here's my crazy to think about it's crazy to think if if that's really how it went down I mean there's so many people involved from point A to point B and all of that and um it's just nuts to think about if even that being slightly plausible right yeah absolutely so here here's my question.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

I have a couple choices on my list here. Are we including street gangs as gangsters?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

I think we should because I have a street gangs movie I'd like to include as well. All right and I think it's pertinent I think it's pertinent because street gangs are still gangs aren't they? That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

There's different levels of gangs and that's why I think we chose to keep it broad because you have mobsters or mafia who are quite liter literally organized high or highly organized gangs right that run cities at at some points and then you have street gangs which run the streets they not run cities they run their streets yeah exactly so for for my number three since we're including street gangs okay I'm gonna include the warriors oh yeah that's great I love the warriors it's it's such like when it came out I know that there were fights in movie theaters because rival gangs were showing up to this movie so I I know it was controversial at the time and it was a 70s movie so it's very realistic and gritty but at the same time it's also pretty fucking comic booky like some of the shit that you know like the different gangs are pretty ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:57

But but I think with the Warriors even to this day like there's a cult following in the art and everything that goes about with that movie. So it's still it's the following of that movie is still very comic booky you know the the art and and just the you know the titling of the way they wrote the Warriors I mean to this day I see it everywhere still in shirts or other things it's it's it's very much still very very popular.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:25

Yeah the the Warriors is yeah I yeah the artwork especially but yeah that's a fun movie it's um it's a New York movie it's about all these different gangs who um one of them wants to hold a meeting so he has six I believe it's six members of six or seven members of each gang comes to one location they all have a temporary armistice can't fight with each other just come to the meeting and you know this one guy Cyrus you know I can't remember what gang he is he's the can you dig it guy you know I used I used to have that on a t-shirt can you dig it but his whole shtick is that he's like there are only six or seven of you from each gang around New York. Look how fucking many of us there are compared to how many police there are in this state it's like we should band together. Like he's trying to like turn it into a big super gang and just run New York. And he probably would have got it off too but you know one of the gang members in the in the crowd shoots and kills this guy mid-speech Luther Luther played by the great David Patrick Kelly he shoots this guy and kills him on stage in front of everybody because in his words he likes doing things like that. And you know he's the first one though to run around and goes oh I saw the Warriors do it. The Warriors are the ones who shot Cyrus and so then it just becomes this big action movie where these guys are trying to get out of New York they're trying to get home to Coney Island to their turf it's a phenomenal movie. Yeah it's a great cast James Remar, young James Remar, David Patrick Kelly as I said, you know he's fantastic in the movie lot a lot of actors you don't see outside of this movie so it's kind of plausible that they're gang members.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

Yeah um directed by Walter Hill right he did uh Walter Hill he was popular in the 70s and 80s with uh he did what 48 hours red heat with Schwarzenegger um 48 hours was what Murphy and Nick Nolte right yeah he they did two of those yeah 48 hours and another 48 hours he was super popular in the 70s and 80s he did some other movies I can't recall but I know he he had his he had his handful in those two decades.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

He he made a lot of good movies uh he produced him and a couple other guys produced and had their hands all up in the alien series really I didn't know that really when you when you watch the original movies they're produced by Walter Hill David Guyler and I think there's another guy but they rewrote a lot of the scripts like when you get to Alien 3 like David Guyler particularly I believe was very hands-on in that movie and changing the script and doing things the way he wanted to do it but yeah Walter Hill was very involved in those movies. Interesting but yeah the The Warriors is a great movie like I said it comes off kind of comic booky now because all the gangs had weird identities you know like they have a they have a scene where they you know get into a fight with I forget what they're called but there was the baseball gang where they're all like dressed in old Dodgers uniforms and their faces painted and they're swinging baseball bats. But man that movie it's it's such a great movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:14

Yeah yeah the Warriors is a great choice.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:17

It's a great movie man uh they got the you know the lines in that movie they got the bit you know they're fighting the baseball gang and James Remar who most people will recognize as Dexter's dead father in the series Dexter on Showtime he tells the one guy I'm gonna take that bat from you I'm gonna stick it up your ass and turn you into a popsicle and I still don't know that there's a cooler line in any movie anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

I don't know the can you dig it line is pretty iconic can you dig it but it was it was probably made more famous by Shaq when he used it after they won the championship with the Lakers at the at the tours. I don't know if that's I don't know if he's ever credited that's where he took it from but I'm assuming that's where he got it from I mean I'm sure that's where he got it from yeah you know where you know where they use it in another great place and it gets missed entirely uh Jeffrey Rush uses it in Mystery Men.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Oh that's right yeah they got that they got that scene where Jeffrey Rush has all the gangs together and he's like oh I got Captain Amazing downstairs and Ben Stiller and all them are downstairs trying to free Captain Amazing why this is going on and he's upstairs going can you dig it?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:36

I think the I think the other unforgettable and it happens I think maybe more than once is uh Luther's uh character you know the the just the iconic warriors oh yeah come out and play and he's clinking with the with yeah with the bottles together yeah the beer bottles yeah that's iconic i mean that's yeah and it's also you know a very subtle creepiness to it right oh yeah it's very creepy yeah David Patrick Kelly for such a short guy like he uh he's probably my height like honestly but he he is great he he was in that he was in the crow he was amazing in the crow that's true he was a lot of fun in commando with Arnold Schwarzenegger and and then he was on he had his run of movies he had his run and then he was on twin peaks that's right I still have never seen twin peaks oh man you gotta watch twin peaks that is a wild trip yeah I told somebody about blue velvet today oh yeah how'd that go uh I told him it was a wild fucking movie it's it's that's a wild fucking movie all right all right well enough about blue velvet I'm sure that'll come up one day but what's your third movie uh I'm gonna keep it with the New York theme and go with gangs of New York ah gangs of New York that's one I'd like to watch again yes yes um you know it's a Martin Scorsese movie it's uh with Daniel day Lewis Leonardo DiCaprio Liam Neeson Jim Broadbent Brendan Gleason who's one of my favorites uh Steven Graham John C. Riley I mean the list goes on it's a it's a great cast um obviously Cameron Diaz is the outlier in my opinion in that movie which which it's it's well noted that she's the outlier in that movie. Yeah and and to be honest with you she might be an outlier an outlier in every movie potentially every movie I've seen her in I I I've never really been a huge fan of Cameron Diaz there may be one or two movies where I'm like yeah she's she fits perfectly in those movies but um general consensus is I I've never really been too much of a fan of hers.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

Which is unfortunate she's pretty great but yeah but but you know she's not you know she makes a lot she made a lot of rom-coms. Yeah she was never she never quite hit that Julia Roberts plateau.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:07

No no and and and I don't doubt her for trying I just I just think she had a much harder time breaking out of the rom uh you know bubble than others did. Yeah. And I think maybe because I think she has a very specific look and and I don't know if it if if that for me is why I don't feel like she fit in other movies. Like I think um you know I think she was good in the movie she did with Tom Cruise. I don't know why that's escaping me right now but because we talked previously no but the other one of show why we talked about it on a previous episode. Oh vanilla sky vanilla sky I don't know why that escaped me but she I think she's great in vanilla sky well well see and that's the that's the problem with her is she is really good and she proved in vanilla sky that she is really good. Yeah and I just I just I come across her in other things and I'm like man I wish I wish I could like it more like some of the other movies you know and and then I don't think she's bad I I I I don't that's not what I'm saying so let me clarify it. It's like I don't think she's a bad actress I think she's really good I just don't think she fits some of the roles that she plays in all that well in terms of casting and this is one of the movies that I I don't I don't think she's necessarily bad. I think she she fits very well with Leo but it wouldn't have been the person I would have liked to see in the role if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

No yeah I think it was just you know she was a name and I think it just it just helped get some of the financing you know yeah no no that that makes sense and I think it was an expensive movie for the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:54

Yeah and I don't you know Scorsese's not not shy about throwing oddball characters in roles you know he he sometimes takes some chances on some things um and so uh I'm you know I'm not surprised um but um yeah I mean I I really do enjoy this movie I think I watched it recently maybe a a year or two ago uh I love the music um I love uh this really shows you like the the long running history of the Catholic Protestant turmoil right where you have these epic historical battles in the streets and uh you know Daniel day Lewis's character plays um the butcher right and uh he's something he's scary in that movie and he looks freaking scary in that movie oh absolutely yeah uh you know Leonardo DiCaprio uh you know plays the uh the up-and-coming kid from the other borough if I'm not mistaken and he's trying to like make his way um but I think ultimately if I remember right he finds out um about what truly happened uh to his family and essentially becomes enemies with Daniel day Lewis's character which ends up you know turning into the war uh between the the Burroughs um and so yeah does my remembered uh quick plot sound about right for the movie I think it does I mean yeah honestly I'm gonna be honest with you I feel like that's a movie that even at the time was mostly regarded as a not that good but b showcased Daniel day Lewis and Leonard DiCaprio giving amazing performances yep yep yep and I really feel like that's kind of like you know nobody really watched that movie for the story like when you watch that movie I mean at least I I need to rewatch it again yeah at least at the time it seems like that story is so ungainly does that make sense like it's just so all over the place because there's so much story they have to cram in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:26

And I think that's really why Cameron Diaz gets a lot of flack for that movie because on top in the middle of it all she's just in the middle of it all because they had to shoehorn a romance into the movie. Like it doesn't really fit with everything that's going on. Like sure in real life that shit happens you know like you're doing all this stuff and off to the side you know you're you're also falling in love with this person and I get that and it happens but you know they got a whole sequence where um because I believe it's right around If I'm not mistaken, this is taking place during the Civil War.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:05

And President Lincoln is trying to conscript people. They're trying to draft people into the Union Army. And they have a whole sequence in the movie where that causes a riot.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:19

You know, the romance aspect of it doesn't belong in this movie in the same way that that doesn't belong in this movie. It's just two things that happen. There's so much that happens in this movie. I don't think you could really boil it down very well. And I think that's one of the drawbacks in why the movie isn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:39

No, and that reminds me of really the the premise of the movie as I'm thinking about it now, and it's coming back to memory a little better. Um uh Leo's character uh understands that Daniel Day Lewis's character killed his father.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:55

Yeah. It's at the heart, it's it's a revenge movie at the heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:58

It is, and the entire reason for him wanting to get to Daniel Day Lewis's side is ultimately to kill him.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:07

Yeah. But there's so much else going on in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:11

There's like, well, those and yeah, there's the whole historical fiction piece about, you know, like you said, everything else that's going on around them while this internal Burroughs battle is is is going crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:27

Yeah, there's there's just a lot happening, and it's it's hard for a casual viewer to just lock in.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:34

Yeah. I can't imagine uh knowing how Daniel Day Lewis is as a method actor. I can't imagine being around him on set for this fucking movie. So he must have been scary to be around.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:51

So they have the scene in the movie where he taps his glass eye with the the point of a of a knife. And the way I understand that is he really did that to his own bare eyeball. What? That's not an effect, the way I understand that's just Daniel Day Lewis doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:14

So, I mean, I may be wrong, someone can call bullshit on me, but the way I understand is he did that for real. That's not an effect.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:21

That's crazy. I mean, he's that man, he's so unreal in that movie. Uh even if the rest of the movie sucked, which it didn't, you watch that movie like you mentioned earlier, just for Daniel Day Lewis's and Leo's performances, because they're phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:39

They really are.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:41

So for my number four, I feel like there's a lot of movies that we're gonna talk about at the end of this. So I I'm debating how esoteric I want to get with my last two choices.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:54

I think a lot of the times we both shy away from the more popular ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

Well, yeah, because I I don't think this is gonna surprise anybody when we mention the Godfather series.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:07

Or Goodfellas.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:09

Or Goodfellas. But, you know, I feel like we've mentioned those in passing a couple of times. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:16

And yes, we definitely talked about The Godfather. It was on either my list or your list in one of the other episodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

And Goodfellas, I kind of mentioned for, you know, one of those movies that should have won Best Picture. I'm pretty sure I brought that up. But these are like monumental movies, you know. They really are. Like the point of this show is to kind of showcase movies that you know you don't hear about as often as you would Goodfellas. You know, so I'm gonna get kind of esoteric, probably, with my last two two choices. Number four, I'm gonna go with a history of violence. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:57

You know, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:59

I I know a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:02

Should we just go ahead and throw in Eastern Promises and talk about them both?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:06

I mean, if you want to include Eastern Promises on your list, then yes, I'm down.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:11

Because that falls into the gangster category.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:14

Oh, it absolutely does, and it's the same director.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:17

Yeah, and they came out what back to back years, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:20

Yeah, well, I don't know if it was back to back years, but it was like they're very close. They're close because they did history of violence and then they went and did Eastern Promises like a year or two later. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:31

Yeah, let's let's go ahead. I mean, these are gonna be our number fours just because Vigo's amazing. Let's let's throw it in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:39

So this is really where Vigo shines, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:44

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:46

So what here's how we should do in my this is what I think we should do. I'll talk about Eastern or um a history of violence, and then you'll talk about the plot for Eastern promises, and then we could just go crazy and chat.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:58

Deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:59

So a history of violence, it's about this little small town nobody. He runs this little fucking tiny diner. Everybody loves him. He's got a wife, a beautiful wife, Maria Bello. He's got a couple of kids, one's really young, one's being bullied in high school because it's just how it happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:18

And, you know, for him, life is ideal. This is perfect. It's he he's and Mayberry. He's living out the casual American dream. The casual American dream. And one night at closing time, these two guys come into the diner and they mean business. And, you know, it looks like one of them's gonna get a little too crazy with one of the girls. You know, a gun has already come out, you know, and Vigo Mortensen, whose character's name is Tom Stahl, which is very foreshadowing what's gonna happen next. But Tom manages to get the upper hand in this situation and kills both of these guys who seemingly are gonna rob and murder, possibly rape some of them. So Tom kills them both and becomes something of a local hero and makes the news, and that's where the problem happens. Yeah. Because Ed Harris, who's some disfigured mobster from Philly, sees Tom on the news and is like, that's fucking Joey. That's the guy who messed up my face and fled, and we haven't seen in 15, 20 years. And Tom's like, no, no, that's not me. That's not me. So it's like this whole movie about, you know, like this one violent moment, like it doesn't matter who you try to be. You know, violence begets violence, and he's just trying to be a guy, and his wife's not sure who he is anymore. And this mobster may or may not know who the fuck he is, and so it's a movie about identity, but it's really about who we are underneath, because a single act of violence can change everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:07

Yeah, uh, I I think that's a really good way that you put it. And this is off topic, but I don't know why I thought of this, but the movie Drive has a lot of that too, with a single act of violence.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:19

Uh Drive was one I was thinking about throwing on there too, because that's another really good gangster movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:24

Yeah. Um, it it immediately this movie immediately makes me think of that uh in in different ways. I think Drive is a lot more stylistic and artsy, but that's uh besides the point. But yes, uh history of violence is fantastic. I think everybody knew Vigo could act from The Lord of the Rings, but he didn't he wasn't ever like just Return of the King was his was his front and center moment, right? But when he went and did this Cronenberg movie, and he's front and center in this indie movie, that was for me when I was like, holy shit, this dude can act.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:02

Well, uh I I knew he could act before he did he did a movie called The Prophecy with uh Christopher Walken. Oh, really? Okay. So it's I don't know if I've seen it. Uh you probably haven't, and this is way off topic, but no, um, you know, it's it's uh kind of a horror movie. It's about the war in heaven, how how God gave human souls, and some angels were pissed about that, and other ones were kind of resigned to, you know, that's God's decision. And so it's pretty cool. So a war breaks out, and the war continues on earth and has been going on for thousands of years. And the main characters in the movie, one is a homicide detective who used to, who almost became a priest, but he he saw a little bit too much of God's plan, and so he had to back away. Okay. But they have this great sequence towards the end of the movie where um in order to stop Christopher Walken, who plays the archangel Gabriel, from winning the war and essentially making heaven another hell. Interesting. Our heroes have to team up with the devil, who is played by Vigo Mortensen. And still to this day, Vigo Mortensen is my favorite interpretation of the devil.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:28

You know what? I I now I remember you telling me this probably many years ago. But you told me he you told me he was the best interpretation of the devil you've seen, but also that he was the most like restrained but also scary version of the of the devil.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:51

He he is so scary. Yeah, that's what you touch a little bit of movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:56

Yeah, that's what you told me. I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:59

You always have these over-the-top versions of the devil, you know, you got Tim Curry and Legend, and he's so painted and prosthetic, and it's cool. And then you got like Peter Stormare and Constantine, and he's just like kind of comedic and kind of zany. Vigo's perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:19

And you know, he's not if if I understand what you've said so far about his depiction of the devil, um, he's probably not that far off from the biblical interpretation of how he comes as a sheep in wolf's clothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:36

Yeah, well, he he makes it very clear who he is. Well, but but from the start.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:42

But his physical presence is not necessarily one that would off-put you when you see him. That's that's what I'm trying to get at.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:48

Yeah, well, he he is a he's a fallen angel, and all the angels are just interpreted as uh men who are slightly, I don't know what's the word to put it, like when you look at them, they don't look like us.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:03

But they look enough like us where it's passable, but there's something off about them, like their hair color or the paleness of their skin. But uh for him, his lips were dark, like he had like dark lip. So it's subtle, subtle appearance differences, subtle appearance differences, but his performance is great. And I do feel like, yes, because of Lord of the Rings, uh, we got a Hidalgo. And then at some point, you know, Cronenberg was like, this is the guy for a history of violence. And then after history of violence, they went on to do Eastern Promises, and that's where I turn it over to you to tell us a little bit about Eastern Promises.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:47

Oh man. Well, I should comment first that uh Steven Knight did the screenplay, and he's done things like Dirty, Pretty Things. Um I know he did Lock, and I can't remember what else he did.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:03

But um he did really quick, he did the TV show with Tom Hardy, Taboo, which I really liked.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:10

Oh, I I haven't seen it, but you I think you told me it was really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:14

And he's also the showrunner, head writer for Peaky Blinders. And he is the guy tasked currently with writing the new James Bond movie. Oh shoot. Oh, that's great then. So continue with Eastern Promises. I'm sorry, no more interruptions from the Peanut Gallery here.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:37

Well, hey, I have heard from uh people I know that they love your peanut gallery of movie facts. Awesome. So keep on with the uh peanut gallery of movie facts. Awesome. So as I will uh as we said, this is another Cronenberg movie. Vigo stars in it and he plays Nikolai. Um Naomi Watts is in it, Vincent Castle, Armin Mueller Stahl plays the head honcho who's riveting in this movie. Uh he's fantastic. He outside from Vigo, I mean, Vincent Castle's great, but I love his boss role in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:22

Yeah. Everybody's really good in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:25

Oh, yeah. Um, but essentially, um, the movie tells a story of uh Anna, Naomi Watts' character, who um Naomi Watts plays the character of the the nurse that finds the girl that essentially was uh you know raped. And if I recall right, she dies at childbirth, right? Or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:48

So so yeah, she as you find through the movie, you know, she was, you know, because it's the Russian mob in Great Britain. Correct. This girl was trafficked. I believe she's under 18. And she's rushed to the hospital because she's oh, she's even younger than that. It's been a little while since I watched it, but yeah, she she gives birth to a baby. Yeah, she gives birth to a baby and she dies, and it's like whose whose family is this? Mm-hmm. And she gets kind of drawn into the Russian mafia situation because of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:24

Yeah, and um ultimately I believe it's uh Vincent Castle's character that's involved in that, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:32

Well, they're they're all kind of involved in that because she she goes to Armin Mueller's stall and he runs a restaurant. Correct. And I'm not I don't remember exactly why. I think because no, I know why, because they find a diary on the the dead girl, and it's right it's written completely in Russian, and you know, she finds a Russian restaurant, not Armin Mueller's stall is like, oh, I could translate this for you, but you know, it's his business. Like he has the the restaurants up front for the mobsters and the trafficking, and Cassell is his son, who's next in line for the throne.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:16

Yeah, and obviously, uh Vigo's character is rising in rank as we go through this movie, um, and ultimately um you know he rises in rank obviously because he's protecting Carol, Vincent Castle's character, throughout the film. Um and it leads to a showdown.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:41

Oh, one of the greatest showdowns in movie history, baby.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:45

Yeah. Um and so Vigo's character fights these two dudes completely butt naked in like the Turkish bath. So good. And it's one of the most surreal action sequences I've ever seen in a movie. There's like no music, it's just like things you hear slapping around and men dying, basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:12

Well, they they have those really gnarly looking knives. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I don't usually like when you're watching movies and people are having knife fights, like I don't usually get on the edge of my seat, but you know, Vigo's buck ass naked.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:27

Yeah. Uh it's very I mean, when we say it's a wild fighting, you know, fight sequence, it's very real because I as I recall, there's like I said, there's no music and it's just three guys fighting, and all you hear is the fighting. Like what it would sound like if you're hearing a brawl in the middle of the street with literally no background noise, just them in a bathroom fighting. It's it's brutal, man. It's a it's brutal. Ultimately, we find out that Vigo's character was undercover the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:00

Yes. So yeah, he's not I don't know if he's actually Russian or not, or if he's pretending to be Russian.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:06

I don't recall if they very if they state that very clearly. Yeah, it doesn't really come up, I don't think. But he's good enough to not be exposed.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:18

Yeah. So yeah, he he's a cop. Mm-hmm. And yeah, essentially, Armin Mueller Stahl is is in charge of the Russian mob.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:30

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:31

Or at least faction of the Russian mob.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

And I for I forget what exactly happens, but Vincent Cassell, who plays a son, does something stupid. And for retribution, they go to Armin Mueller's stall and say, You have to give up your son. And he agrees to do it, but in instead of offering up his son, he gives them Vigo. And that's why he rises to the rank that he does. Because they want him to look like they want him to have the proper tattoos, so they give him what what are essentially badges of honor.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:07

Correct. That's another reason why the Bath fight sequence is so important, is because you see all his badges of honor through the fight sequence.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:15

Yeah. So they they think that they're there to kill Vincent Cassell, but because of that, this cop now has a high-ranking position in the Russian mafia.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:28

Such a great movie, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:30

It's one of those movies that I I definitely need to watch again because there's this as much as Naomi Watts' character is in some way threatened by Vigo's character, she's all she's also obviously protected.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:42

Yeah. Well, and she's also very attracted to him as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:46

Yes, yes. Um, and you know, it's it's a movie again, a lot about identity, loyalty, family, you know, there's there's a lot of those themes in this movie. Um it's very dark. You know, it's it's I don't think it's necessarily an an easy watch because there's a lot of very heavy uh thematical elements in in the movie. It's fantastic, to say the least. And you know, it talking about it, uh, I think I I forget quite a bit of pieces since I haven't seen it in such a long time, and it makes me want to watch it again because I I I I don't uh I recall it being, in my opinion, Vigo's best movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:30

It was definitely the first time he got nominated for an Oscar.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:34

Yes. Um, but I'm a little ashamed to say that I don't remember all the details of the plot, which means that I need to watch it again because this movie is undeserving of my miscommunication of some of the pieces of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:47

But what's great about that is I I love that when I brought up a history of violence, because I know you know that movie really well. Yeah. That's a movie you know really well. So if if we would have done this flipped, then I would have brought up Eastern Promises and you would have been like, well, let's do history of violence too, and it would have been easier. But what's great is you remember that movie being fantastic, but you don't remember it. You remember so little about it that going in, you're gonna have such a great fucking time, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:18

Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, there's uh the best, it's it's the best because you don't remember it fully, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:25

Yeah, I know this is great, but I don't remember the details.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:29

And I think that for me, Eastern Promises is one of those, but I also think there's a lot of interlaying side uh pieces of story in Eastern Promises uh that I think can I don't necessarily think they're confusing, but you have like different members of the mob and you know uh side quest characters of the family, and and so I think there's a lot going on in that movie that that gets a little in the weeds um to remember exactly correctly, but I know it all ties in very well together.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:02

No, and that's uh why you were saying that it occurred to me. It's it's just like watching Gangs of New York.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:10

Because there's all these little pieces, but I feel like Eastern Promises pulls that off a little bit better, and they do it in about half the running time.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:20

Yeah. There's also not as many characters.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:24

Oh, well yeah, well, that's the big problem with Gangs of New York, is they have so many fucking characters.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:30

But I'm not surprised. That's you know, Martin Scorsese usually makes a pretty big epic with his movie and includes a lot of characters. But sometimes he does it he does it better than others. And we can name another movie here, The Departed, where its cast of characters are much better suited for the story and how he's more lazy balance.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:50

Yeah. But that's another that's one of my um honorable mentions was uh the departed.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:56

Yeah, the departed is uh it's great. So Wade, we got one left.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:02

So many choices. Still got so many choices.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:06

I know. You did mention, you know, the the departed as a uh honorable mention.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:14

Uh you know, we've we've mentioned Goodfellas, which we've chosen to leave off because we know it's something we've talked about. Um there's a few Godfather, um, I mean, there's some other ones. Snatch.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:31

Um But Snatch, I'm not I'm not a big fan of the guy Ritchie stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:35

I know you're not. Uh but I think Snatch should be thrown up there in terms of uh just you know gangster movies. I have an interesting guess for your number five, but I don't know if it's gonna be your number five.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:46

Oh man, I'll tell you what. If you can guess my number five, I'll give you a hundred bucks. Oh yeah? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:54

Um my guess is Miller's Crossing.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:58

No, but that was that was my honorable mention. Like that was actually that was very close because I thought about doing Miller's Crossing a couple times. I'm like, should I talk about Miller's Crossing? So I was gonna bring that up during the honorable mention segment.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:12

And I'll let you talk about it briefly, but I I I know how much you love the Cohen brothers, so I thought that was gonna be one of the ones you brought up.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:19

So I I I really thought about that one. Um Miller's Crossing is one. But um, like obviously I just talked a couple weeks ago about a couple British ones, like the Long Good Friday and Mona Lisa and Sexy Beast, which is another one I really considered using here.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:38

But I'm gonna go with uh for me, it's a recent favorite. It's something I finally sat down and watched. I'd been I'd heard about it a lot. It's from the 70s.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:48

It is from you know, the new independent cinema. You know, it's uh it's a it's a John Cassavetes movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:56

So John Cassavetes was an actor. He was um Rosemary's husband and Rosemary's baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:05

But he he also was an independent cinema director, and he would make some pretty off-the-wall, Verite style, almost documentary-ish movies. And so for my fifth pick, I'm gonna go with his film, The Killing of a Chinese Bookie.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:25

Ooh, okay. I have not seen it.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:27

So it is a weird movie. So it's uh it's about uh it's about this guy. He owns like a strip club, but it's like a classy strip club. But he so badly wants to be a player, you know what I mean? Not like a mob player, but like a big shot. So at the beginning of the movie, you know, he's gathering a bunch of his girls, and they go down to like the illegal gambling den to have a good night, and he loses a shit ton of money that he can't afford to lose. He doesn't have it. And so the mob have already kind of extended credit to him once. And so the movie is really about you know him dealing with that. So they they show a lot of inner workings of the club and his life, but then at one point in the movie, the mob comes to him and said, Look, there's no way you could fucking pay us off. You're too far in the hole. So, what we want you to do is go kill this Chinese bookie for us, and that'll clear the books for you. Yeah, the books will be cleared, bro. And you know, it's one of those it's not necessarily a shaky camera, like it's not Blair Witch, but you know, it's not steady cam either. You know, it's a lot of other things going on, and you know, I I would say um Michael Mann lighting has a lot was learned from this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:49

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:50

You know, but it's it's just such a fun little movie, it's like a fun little crime movie. This guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. Like at any point in the movie, all he knows how to do is run the strip club. And he seems to be doing really well at that. But he he doesn't know how to just do that. And you know, then when he gets involved with the mob, like he is completely out of his fucking element.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:17

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:18

Yeah, it's it's uh it's an interesting little movie. Um, I have the Criterion Blu-ray, which has the director's cut.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:26

Man, it's such a great movie. Highly recommend that movie. Not everyone's gonna love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:31

Yeah, yeah. Um, I thought when you said 70s, I I thought you would mention like the French Connection or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:38

See, the French Connection, I don't consider a mob movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:42

It's more of like a it's it's an action crime movie, but it's not necessarily directly related to mobsters or gangsters, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:51

I mean, it could be, but yeah, I consider it more of a cop drama.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:56

In my opinion. You know, another one I thought about including another 70s movie was uh Get Carter with Michael Cain.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:04

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:05

You know, that's a really good movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:07

Um, I thought about Miller's Crossing a couple times because Miller's Crossing is one of the because I really like that era, the night the Roaring 20s Prohibition era where they got the Tommy guns and the top hats, and they're all dressed so nice. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:25

I I do enjoy those movies, and uh Miller's Crossing is a really good movie, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:29

Well, before I I mentioned my fifth, give me some of your honorable mentions.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:33

Oh well, I kind of just did. I mean, Drive was on there. Drive was another one that I really considered talking about. How about Bugsy? Bugsy, I've never seen. Like, no, uh, that's not true. I've seen Bugsy, but I was A too young to care. So I never really watched it.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:52

Mm-hmm. How about uh uh another 90s one? Like I think it was either like 1991 or maybe even 1990 or something, uh, King of New York with Christopher Walken.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:03

King of New York, thank you. That was the one I was thinking of early and I forgot.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:07

I quote that movie all the time. I believe I've quoted it on this podcast where you know, uh I I've never killed anyone who didn't deserve it. Yeah, yeah. That is a great movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:18

Yeah, I think that's a great movie. Um, I don't think we mentioned casino.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:23

I I wasn't a big fan of casino.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:25

I like it. But I feel like you gotta mention it in this topic, right? Yeah. No, you do, I get it. For a lot of people, it's considered a a classic.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:36

Yeah, there's one um I've always wanted to check out. I've never gotten a chance to. It's on Tubi. It's on my list on Tubi. It's uh it's called uh Hoodlum with uh Lawrence Fishburn, Tim Roth, and Andy Garcia's Lucky Luciano.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:57

So that's a that's a true based on a true story. And actually, why we're talking about Lawrence Fishburn, I don't know if I would consider it a mob movie. I mean, he deals with mob characters, but it's more of a undercover cop in the drug world, but it's um yeah called uh Deep Cover with uh Lawrence Fishburn and Jeff Goldblum. That that's a fantastic movie. I would highly recommend that movie. So that'd probably be what I want to have for honorable mentions.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:28

Cool. Yeah, I think uh obviously the ones I just mentioned were kind of like the ones I would think of off the top of my head for honorable mentions. Now, my fifth movie is very unconventional. Awesome. I can't wait. Um, and I'm curious to see if you've actually seen it or not. We'll find out. It's a movie with Elijah Wood and Charlie Hunnam.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:53

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Uh Green uh Green Street Hooligans? Yeah, Green Street Hooligans. I have seen Green Street Hooligans, yeah. That dealt a lot with soccer, which was not really my thing when I saw it, but yeah, I have seen that.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:09

Yeah, but it deals with the the gangs of the soccer teams, and you know, hooligans are um the term they use in in in the UK for these fans of popular all soccer teams really, but um they consider hooligans these individuals who essentially really are involved with crime or the underworld to some degree um and mask a lot of their dealings within the soccer territory of things. Um and essentially this movie, you know, this movie reminds me a lot of the Warriors in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:51

See, when when I saw it, it reminded me a lot of Eastern Promises. Really? Because, you know, they have that whole bit about the soccer teams and the, you know, the it's it's not quite as prominent, but you know, the divide between soccer.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:06

Factions, correct. Factions, yeah. And everywhere around the world, um, every country has hooligans. I mean, soccer is the most popular sport in the world, and in every country, you're gonna have die-hard fans that will literally in some cases kill or die for their teams. But a lot of that is rooted in the hooligan aspect of these people just being criminals, really. Um, and this movie uh essentially the the loose story is uh Elijah Wood's character um is really uh kind of like just a good kid, and he has this, I believe it's his cousin or family member played by Charlie Telem's character, who's like the leader of the hooligan team, right? And he essentially starts hanging out with him. Um Elijah Wood's like an American college student or something, and um he gets expelled or something like that. And um, you know, he visits his his sister or something like that in England, and that's how he meets Charlie, Hunnam's character. And um, I don't think they're related now that I'm I'm I'm remembering a little bit more clearly, um, or something they're friends or boyfriend or something like that. But anyways, he starts hanging out with the hooligans of this soccer team and eventually starts getting into all the dealings and the street fights and all this stuff, right? And um, a lot of the times they're grossly outnumbered and they end up getting almost killed in a lot of instances. But ultimately, um, and you know, and the movie goes through all the inner workings and dealings of what the hooligans do when it comes to illegal activity. And um, but ultimately Elijah Wood's character ends up dying at the end of the movie because of a fight. Yeah, a brutal fight. Um, but uh, you know, very much so, these scenes of intense action sequences with weapons and things like that, it happens all over the world. Um, and I mean I've I've been privy to some of it going to soccer games, you know. Um and it's not fun, it's really freaking scary. It's really scary. Um sports fans, sports fans be crazy, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:24

Yeah. Uh but now that I'm thinking, his character does die, right? I'm pretty sure. I mean, I only saw it the one time. My roommate Jameson was a big fan of this. Uh, about the time I was working at Blockbuster, he's like, You gotta check this movie out. And so he showed it to me. So I saw it the one time, and it wasn't necessarily my cup of tea, but it was good. I remember I remember liking it, but not really seeking it out another time.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:53

He doesn't die because he ends up going back to America. It's the other character that dies. It's um it's what's his name character that dies. Charlie Hunnam's character dies. Charlie Hunnum's character dies. See, that makes more sense. I just remember Elijah Wood's character being brutally beaten, but I now that I I I sp yeah, I specifically remember he goes back home and he's kind of just you know really traumatized by the experience that that happened.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:24

Yeah, I I can see why. Yeah, I know I remember, yeah, you're right. I remember that now with Hunum dying. Like I said, I only saw it the one time and it was like so long.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:33

But I think that that movie holds a special place in my heart because I'm such a diehard soccer fan. Um I can see that. But I also think it's really well done in the the gritty style that it's filmed in the streets of England and it depicts the two things. It it depicts the the real life and death scenario that some of these fans really do live and breathe. And I know that to be true because I've experienced it in my own life, like I've said, going to games, but you also realize the ridiculousness of it all as well, that oh yeah, it's taken as as a life and death situation. Um, but um I know for a fact that hooligans in real life, you know, the a lot of them are are are criminal drug lords and and they use the stadiums and the groupings and all these things to run their run their rings, basically. And so I I know it as a a very real thing just because you hear stories of it. Uh, you know, uh my family's from Argentina and and these guys run the show at these stadiums and you hear about it all the time. And and so much so that they've been sometimes uh a lot of the times they are uh barred entrance to other stadiums or even other stadiums in other countries when the teams visit other countries. So uh it goes to that extent because they know who these head honcho guys are.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:59

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, wild. All right, well, that that was a pretty wild discussion right there. We got into some oh, you know, oh, I thought of another movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:10

I'm sorry, I have one more honorable mention.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:12

Do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:13

The drop with Tom Hardy.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:15

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:16

That was another one. I forgot about that one. I don't think it would have been on my list because I kind of like my list, but I like my list too. The the drop is a really good movie if people are interested in that. That's a good ad. James Gandolfini. You can never go wrong with that. No. So quickly, let's let's recap.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:36

Adrian, what were your five movies? Top five, roughly top five gangster movies.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:42

Yeah, in the order I presented them, I had Scarface, American Gangster, Gangs of New York, Eastern Promises, and Green Street Hooligans. Of the five, Eastern Promises is probably my favorite of my five.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:57

Interesting. Interesting. All right. For my five, I did The Untouchables, Carlito's Way, Warriors, if you could get the original theatrical cut. If you if you have to watch the director's cut, I'm I'm sorry. A History of Violence and The Killing of a Chinese Bookie.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:17

Those are some great fucking movies there, man. If you had to stick with one, which wouldn't, which one would it be as your favorite of your top five?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:24

It would be the untouchables.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:26

Yeah, yeah. It would have to be. Yeah. And I think the untouchables, you have to put out of all the movies we mentioned, Untouchables might be the one film that might be the uh regarded number one out of everything in a lot of people's conversations. It if not, it's at least an arguable top three.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:47

I can't think, I mean, I know I've seen other movies where Al Capone is a character, but I can't think of another movie, another Capone movie off the top of my head that is that good. Like I can't even think of another one. Robert De Niro really knocks it out of the park in that movie. The action is good, it's so gritty.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:09

Well, did you ever see Tom Hardy's rendition of Capone from like it was like early 2020 or 2021 or something like that?

SPEAKER_01 2:06:17

No idea.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:18

Yeah. Tom Hardy uh made a movie in 2020. It was a biographical drama um made by Josh Trank, and Tom Hardy plays that's why I didn't see it.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:30

The Fantastic Four guy. I didn't even know they let that guy make another movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:33

Yeah, but uh Tom Hardy plays Capone, and he's I mean, he's a force to be reckoned with in that movie. I don't necessarily think it's a it's a it's a great movie, but Tom Hardy's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:45

If like I still haven't seen Legend, the one where he plays the twins, and I'd be much more interested in watching that one. I like that. I I heard it was really good. I just never got around to it.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:56

Get this too. Josh Trank is in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:01

Okay. That yeah. I I remember having a discussion at Video Paradiso when it was when it was still there. Uh I don't remember how it came up, but Josh Trank got mentioned and like his unfortunate Fantastic Foreign. You know, that's not a good movie, but that had some really solid ideas. It did. And it had a really cool sci-fi movie tone. And I I remember telling the guy I would have liked, I would have preferred to see the version of that movie, better or worse, that was his vision, because I know, like right around the middle of the movie, Fox kind of took over and reshaped the movie they wanted. And I remember saying that, and the guy working the counter at Video Paradiso was like, oh no, Josh Trank is a total asshole. Everything you've heard is completely right. I went to high school with that guy, he's awful. I was like, oh my god, okay. I stand corrected. So I was like, all right. So I don't know. But yeah, I thought that guy was just out of the movie business. So I I wasn't even aware of this Capone movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:12

It it just was probably one of those loss in the shuffle of COVID movies. Yeah. But yeah, so this has been another Genvelope episode. And man, that was a that was a great fucking topic. Top five gangster movies.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:26

That was a great topic.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:28

And I think we picked some really cool movies that uh some of them probably people have not really gotten to see because, like we said, when we talk about gangster movies, you know, Goodfellas always comes up and The Godfather, and especially the Godfather Part 2, which is kind of seen as the apex gangster movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:47

And that's a whole genre, you know. You could go back to the 30s, Public Enemy with um uh what's his name? James Cagney, you know. You could you could watch gangster movies all day. I married the mob with Michelle Pfeiffer. That's one I would like to re-watch. I saw that when I was younger. Yeah, there's a there's a ton.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:05

Yeah, there is a ton. So but I think uh our list of ten, excluding maybe my number five with Green Street Hooligans, is probably a pretty good list to start off with.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:17

I mean, I I think you know, if you're interested, Green Street Hooligans is a good movie. It wasn't my cup of tea particularly, but if you're a soccer fan, yeah, Green Street Hooligans is a win. You know, and it's a very diverse list, you know. Like both of ours are very diverse lists. You know, we got historical epics, you know, we got cops, we got you know, history of violence. It's like, is this a mob movie? The mob's all over that movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:43

It plays like a family drama for most of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:46

Yeah. And the honorable mention that if you haven't seen, you need to see is Drive.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:52

Drive is amazing, man. You know what's another uh another one? Uh thinking about Albert Brooks in that movie is A Most Violent Year with uh Jessica Chastain and Oscar Isaac.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:06

Oh, that was great. Yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:09

My favorite part of that movie because that movie is all about Oscar Isaac trying to run his business legitimately. But his wife was a mobster's daughter, so unbeknownst to him, she's over here cooking the books. And everything the district attorney is coming after them for is completely justified because they're breaking all these laws he's not aware of.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:32

And and Albert Brooks is his lawyer, and at one point, Albert Brooks goes and meets him in his office. He's like, I think we should go outside and take a walk. And Oscar Isaac tells him, he's like, I'm not gonna go outside like I'm a mobster. I forget his is his exact words, but you know, I'm not gonna go outside and act like I'm a mobster. And Albert Brooks says, It is, I am, and that's all he says, and he says everything perfectly in that you know, four words.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:03

Yeah, yeah. That's a great movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:06

Yeah, that's a great movie. So uh before before we go, um last episode, uh little housekeeping, sorry, on the last episode, right before we started recording, we found out that Rob Reiner passed away and we mentioned it. Um but uh we didn't find out till after we were done recording the extent of what happened.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:32

So in my mind, you know, it says, oh, Rob Reiner's dead, you know. In my mind, okay, I mean, this guy was on a sitcom in the 70s, you know, he must have been 25. Yeah, roughly. So I'm thinking, okay, this guy's gotta be about late 70s, early 80s. So I'm like, okay, so Rob Reiner died. Incredibly sad, but you know, not entirely unexpected. And then when we found out what happened, that was, you know. That kind of took my breath away a little bit. Yeah. Tragic.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:02

It did. It really was. And um it's just a tragic, a tragic loss for the movie industry because he brought so much happiness and quality to the industry. And he was a voice for a lot of people. Uh he was very much a an activist. And uh, but bar none, if we just stick to what we like to talk about in movies, he he made some of the best movies that were made.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:34

Including this the spinal tap.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:36

Yeah, and the princess bride.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:38

And misery.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:39

And misery. I mean, those are three movies in their specific categories that can go down as some of the best movies ever made.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:49

When Harry met Sally?

SPEAKER_03 2:12:50

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Every one of his movies, and those four alone can can really be argued for in their specific categories as some of the best movies ever made. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:00

He he he was tremendous. Um I'm not a big fan of Stand By Me.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:05

Mm-hmm. Oh, it's but it it holds its place in history of cinema. It's it's still talked about to this day as a pivotal movie for what it what it stands for.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:14

And Stephen King counts it as his favorite adaptation of one of his works.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:19

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:21

You know, so so yeah, uh losing Rob Reiner. That's big time. That's that's that's big time, and especially in the way it happened was pretty um noteworthy and intense.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:33

So Yeah, it's very sad.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:35

It's sad, and I just wanted to make sure we kind of brushed on it a little bit because last week, you know, it was kind of oh, Rob Reiner died because you know, and in my head, he's a 78, 80-year-old legend who was also uh a heavy smoker in his youth.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:52

So I'm not thinking, you know, foul play when that came up. So uh that's unfortunate. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure that we gave that subject the respect.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:02

Yeah, and and and talking about subjects, I I think it raises the the other subject of, you know, mental health and and substance abuse. And, you know, um, I myself have dealt with uh both of those throughout my life, and and thankfully, um, you know, uh the substance abuse for me isn't really an issue anymore um due to a a spiritual encounter I had. But uh I very much um am an advocate for getting help if you need it. And so there's no shame in in getting help for substance abuse or getting help for if you're struggling mentally, um, because God forbid something bad happens that you don't want to happen because you're not in the right state of mind to control yourself. Um and so um my heart goes out to you if you're going through something right now and you can't you don't see a light at the end of the tunnel or something like that. Um, you know, I know this is taking a serious note, but I think it's it's it's valid and it's me it's something that we can we can mention that, you know, don't give up and and there's hope somewhere out there. And um, you know, uh asking for help or needing help is is not a weakness, it's actually a a sign of strength and humility. Um, and uh in whatever way we're here to support you as as absolutely as viewers and listeners of our podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:28

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so that was the sad note.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:32

On on the happy note, I mean, you know, silver lining kind of note. Um, they also released the calendar for the Frida for the month of January. Very nice. And they will be playing a lot of Rob Reiner movies.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:46

That's cool. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:48

So um gonna see if I could maybe go check some of those out. They will also be playing Hard Boiled.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:55

Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:56

Which you better believe I'm gonna get around to watching.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:59

Very cool. River Oaks is playing Die Hard.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:03

I've seen Die Hard on the screen. I saw that one time. I haven't, so I might go watch that. I saw it at the the Harkins in Chino Hills one time for their flashback Tuesday.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:14

Nice. So yeah, that's way cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:18

So this this episode may be running a little long for some of you. I'm sure some of you want to go to bed, or some of you may want to watch Vigo Mortenson Buckass Naked fight some guys in a bathhouse. And I can't really fault either group of people.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:36

No, no, go watch Eastern Promises right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:39

So thank you guys for listening. Uh, we are up all night cinema. I'm Wade. This is Adrian. Say goodnight, Adrian. Adios, Adrian. And uh last but not least, we want to say thank you to Miss Jen for yet another great suggestion on a topic. So thank you for that, Jen. And uh hey Adrian.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:03

Hey Wade.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:04

I should have killed you in Philly.