Ranking Nolan

The boys dive into the films of Christopher Nolan ahead of his new film, The Odyssey. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Hello, movie lovers. It's after midnight and you're listening to Up All Night Cinema with Wade and Adrian on KNRR, not really radio.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

And now here are the boys.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

So I have a series of questions for you. Oh, okay. You can only answer yes or no. Okay. Is okay to s was that okay to say? Okay? Yes. I guess you could say past too if you want to, if you don't want to answer the question. No, I'll I'll answer yes or no. Yes or no. No elaborating. Okay. Got it. Here we go. Will humans still be making movies in ten years? Yes. How about TV shows? Yes. Is there life elsewhere outside of our planet? Yes. Should cinema stop making superhero movies for a bit? No. Will AI destroy humanity? Yes. Would you ever get rid of your smartphone? No. Are you afraid of death? Yes and no. Yes. Do you have a TikTok? No. Is writing the most important thing in a movie? Yes. Is it okay to eat during a movie? Yes. Is it okay to watch movies on a phone or a laptop? No. Does a big budget film have a higher chance of being a good film? No. What'd you think, Wade? What'd you think with those questions?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Uh, those were good. I think those were the the questions they asked Christopher Nolan. Who was that who he was talking to?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I forget. Some of them were ones. Yeah. The majority of them. I had to adjust it a little bit for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Yeah, I know the I think they asked him if music was the most important part of a movie, right? Yeah. Yeah, that was the only one where I was like, well, no, there's a couple where I thought, uh, yeah, I'd really love to elaborate. Actually, the AI question, I really wanted, I really felt like that was I think Nolan said no. Yeah. Well, when when you think of that, when you say, Will AI destroy humanity, we always picture Terminator. Yeah. But when I think will AI destroy humanity, I think it will completely destroy our souls and our wills to live.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Okay. Yeah, that's much deeper. And I think too, if you look at it strictly from a cinematic lens, a lot of the times when AI is involved, there's always like this heroic human, you know, that saves the day a lot of the times in these uh dystopian style movies that we enjoy watching. Um, but yeah, I think that's a good question. They also asked him if there was a few he passed on, so they asked him if Interstellar is his favorite film in his repertoire, and he said pass. He didn't want to answer that one.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Well, I I think you know it's hard. You know, he he's got they're his babies. Like you can't it's really hard to pick. Yeah. Like he might be able to tell you, I think I accomplished this better on this movie, or I like the way I did this on this movie. But I I think if you put a gun to his head and told him to tell you what his favorite movie was of his, he'd probably be hard pressed to do it.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I think most filmmakers would be hard pressed to do that. Yeah, I agree, I agree. And like, you know, they asked him if he would ever make another superhero movie again, and he said I think he said no, or he said pass. He said no.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

That that one was a quick no, if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, yeah. Um, so I I like that. Those were solid questions, um, I think related to his personal life, because he doesn't own a smartphone, uh and he never will, in what I've seen of him, you know, speaking about his yeah, his his personal life, um, and and I like the the questions they asked and things. I thought it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

I I will say, because to my mind, Christopher Nolan always comes off like a really smart guy. He he's very intellectual.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

So what was the question about life outside of our planet?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Was it no? I think they just asked him, is there life elsewhere outside of our universe or solar system or something?

SPEAKER_03 4:24

And he said no, but we know that's not true. Um, I mean they they've found, we have found microbial life in meteors and water, like loose water on Mars and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, which based on evolution theory, yes, you could essentially say that that at one point that could turn into life in the right environment or where it's coming from, it there already is life in that environment.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah. Microbial life still counts as life. It's it's not, you know, it's it's not human life. It's, you know, their microbes aren't sitting there playing chess and trying to write the great American novel, but they're alive.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Agreed, agreed. So we are up all night cinema. I am Adrian. Say hello, Wade. I think of a man. Then I take away reason and accountability.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

You're gonna change your legal name to that? Yep, yep. I was thinking about changing it to that, or what if this is as good as it gets?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Ooh. I like that one. Mm-hmm. There was a guy at my work when I used to work at the bank, and um he was full of flame tattoos, and his car had flames on it and everything, and he came in one day. He sat down with me, and he's like, Hey, like, I need to change my name on all these accounts. And I was like, Okay. It's like I I legally changed my name. And I'll omit his first name just for privacy reasons, but he literally changed his name to his first name, The Flame. Wow. So I had to go and change all of his personal accounts, his legal name, to his first name, and then the flame afterwards. Yeah. That's wild. That's pretty wild. That's the craziest uh legal name change story I I I've ever seen. Uh this guy was obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

I worked with a girl who changed her legal first name to Vesper, which which is cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

I I can't think of anything that matches that, though, the flame.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

That'd be something. Yeah. So before we get into the topic that we have today, which is a real special one, we might add. What what have you been watching lately, Wade? What's what's been on your your your radar? Uh what what what have you watched? Uh let's uh let's fill in our our listeners to to where our eyes and our ears have been lately.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Well, I um uh movie-wise, Jen bought me uh she got me um uh couple criterion movies. Sweet. And one of them was Lady Snowblood. Ooh, okay, okay. I've never seen it. It's uh it's like a samurai-ish movie from the 70s. I think it's the 70s, maybe it's the late 60s, but um it was uh heavy inspiration for Quentin Tarantino's Kill Bill, even down to the song they play at the end of the first half of that movie when um the bride has taken out O-ren Ishii and her clan of 88 crazy guys.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

I was gonna ask, I've heard that before. Um I know the movie itself rings a bell to me. Um and I've seen, you know, like like tidbits of it here and there, but never watched it in its entirety. But I do remember reading about um its heavy influence on Kill Bill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Even even the uh the costume, like the signature costume that the main character wears was very much what Oren Ishii was wearing. Gotcha in the movie in Kill Bill. Yeah so so yeah, so I watched that movie twice, Lady Snowblood. Twice since she bought it for you? Twice since she bought it for me. Wow. So I watched it and it was just so gorgeous to look at. Okay. Like it was so beautifully shot that I felt like I didn't really pay attention to the movie. You know, so I watched the movie and I enjoyed the movie, but it it was just so gorgeous, so I had to watch it again. Sounds like one I gotta own then. Yeah, you should. And the the disc um the Criterion disc comes with the sequel, which is it's called Lady Snowblood Love of Vengeance or something. Mm-hmm. Love Song of Vengeance. Okay. So it's got two movies for the price of one. Yeah, that's that's not bad then at all. But instead of watching the second one, I watched the first one uh again. Okay, okay. So that's what that's the movie I watched, and then of course, you know, yeah, we finally finished Stranger Things.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

We did, we did. We did. So we you know, we were able to watch the second part of the season five on Christmas Day and the following days, and then the finale came. Uh the finale came, the two hours finale. Yeah, and I watched it twice. Um the whole the whole eight episodes? No, the uh finale twice. Just the finale, okay. Yeah, and you know, um the first run through that I watched of it, I was a little underwhelmed. And that could have been just because I was a little sad that it was over. And you know, I felt like the epic battle that you know the last two seasons had been leading up to, I felt like I felt like it ended very fast.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

It it it did go fast, but I I felt like that was okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah. Um and maybe they did that because you know, they were all so scared of Vecna and the Mind Flare for so long until they realized that their true power was uh ending him together. Uh and obviously they had Will as the secret enforcer once he realized Yeah, once he realized, yeah, Will the wise, right? Once he uh once he uh realized his true potential, and that completely changed the game. Um but watching it through the second time, I think I really liked it. I liked it a lot more than the first time, I think, because I I could appreciate how they tied everything up very well. I I I thought they tied everything up really well. Yeah, it it really is one of the greatest endings to a show I've seen. Um, because there was a a lot they could have done there, and I I think it I think it was probably kind of difficult to to end that and have a a closing chapter for everybody because everybody at different stages of the five seasons was so pivotal to the story, you know, and uh I felt like each one of them needed a closure, and I think they did a phenomenal job at that.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

The the things I kept hearing complaints for were like minor side characters that were really important and sections here, sections there, uh-huh, and they were nowhere to be found at the end. But you know, you can't give everybody a happy ending, you know, like um Argyle, the pizza guy from the last season, like he was really important to how they got from A to B to C last season.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

But did we need him in this season? I didn't feel like we did. Yeah, I I I didn't either. It would have been cool to have him, yes, but it would have just been like another person to have to follow and potentially just stand in the background while things were going on.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah, and it would have wasted screen time potentially for the other major players.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah, exactly. The the other issue I kept hearing was how the middle episodes weren't very good.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Mm-hmm. I felt like that was my original opinion too. I felt like they were just like filler episodes leading up to the finale.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

See, I I didn't feel like they were filler. I felt like were they great episodes? No, you know, it wasn't like anything in season one or two, you know, where the you know, where they were ratcheting up the tension. I really feel like those middle episodes were really putting places on the board so that they can do the finale that they did.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

So so even at the time I didn't mind them. Like everybody else was like, these are terrible, these are so badly written, this and that. And I was like, you know, they they gotta, you know, start positioning pieces.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Correct. And I and I think part one, episodes one through four are really strong.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

I would agree. I thought one through four are really strong episodes. I thought five, six, and seven were good. They weren't, you know, the best episodes of the series, but I thought that they did a good job setting the stage so that we can dive right into the finale and get her done.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah. Um, I mean, five, six, and seven did have some really good scenes, like the hospital scene.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

When they're when they're trying to get Max out. Like that was phenomenal. That was so intense in uh and then to see, you know, uh their mom show up.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yeah, you know. Oh, that was great.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

That was yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

But uh I did I did um I did really like how they wrapped up the show. I thought it was I thought it was well done.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah. Obviously the biggest rave has been about the music, it seems like. And the music was great. You know, making jokes about Will's Secret. Those two things I think have been the two biggest things I've seen on social media.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Uh I've seen a lot of jokes about how long and how out of place the Will's Secret thing was. Um, but I felt like they framed that okay. Yeah. Because he started that conversation with, you know, Vecna showed me that, you know, not telling you guys would lead to you finding out in another way at the wrong time, and it would be either distracting or harmful to my psychology. So I felt like that was a good time. Uh, you know, I felt like they they they frame that in the proper, you know, it looks inappropriate because it's like, well, we're going off to fight the end of the universe, but at the same time, if I had something incredibly important to say, you're gonna want to say it before you go off to war.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I think the other tidbit is Will knew that Vecna would use that fear against him, right? So you can you could essentially say that Will potentially couldn't reach his full potential with without getting rid of that fear or his secrets.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Yeah, he yeah. Vecna had a piece of dynamite, and Will pulled the fuse, made it useless. My favorite thing that I've been seeing a lot of is the amount of time it took Max to go and run through her portal. Yeah, yeah. Like my favorite joke, and I've seen it pop up a couple of times, was I love the podcast scene where they're they're just having a whole discussion and they got the them sitting at a desk with like headphones on and the whole bit, and they're just sitting in the upside down instead of running to their portals. Like that that was really funny to me.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Um that was definitely uh drawn out and dramatized, and yeah, anybody in those situations would have been screw this, I'm going, I'm I'm making a beeline to the to the freaking portal. I'm getting out of here.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

But you know, that's that's what's great about Max because honestly, had Max been like, look, that's your portal. You gotta go that way, I gotta go this way, and she would have just booked it, everybody'd been like, What a selfish asshole.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah. I did think it was kind of kind of selfish for her to not tell Holly until the very end that this is what's going on. She didn't lay it out to her before they were going on that journey.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

I mean, yes and no, because would Holly have gone on that journey? Probably not, but uh they needed to do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

They both needed to do it. Absolutely. So I mean, and and Holly was the, you know, I wouldn't say silent hero because she has such a prominent role in the second half of season five, but she was definitely a huge puzzle piece to bringing down Vecna.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Absolutely. Uh I would say uh Derek was probably my favorite part of the new season.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, he was he was great and just his his asshole personality uh when he when he flips it on and off to be, you know, the the the bad guy or that other role. Um that that's how we get introduced to him until he realizes that these guys are the good guys and he enti you know he changes his entire character. Um but yeah, he's he's kind of like the unsung hero in season five.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

He he's great. They had they had the scene where all the kids were running away and he was slow and behind, and Vecna caught him, and um, you know, he he's got him on the ground, and Vecna's like, who gave you the map? And not even thinking. Derek's just like, your mom. And I was like, Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So so good. Yeah, yeah, that was uh that was that was really good.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

The the real hero though of season five is Joe Kierry. Yeah. In my opinion. Do you know do you know why? I may have some theories, but I want to hear yours, though. He is the one who suggested to the Duffer brothers that they should use David Bowie's heroes over the end credits. Oh. And that was, I remember when the end credits started. Like I kind of figured they were gonna do like a Lord of the Rings or some kind of uh because they did do a Lord of the Rings end credits. But I kind of figured they were gonna do something like that because when the episode started, they just did the title, they didn't do the main credits.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

So I figured they were gonna do something like that, and then when they started playing heroes, I was like, oh man, that is fucking perfect. And then to find out later that that was Joe Curie's idea.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah. Amazing. Well, I mean, he is a musician that has got insanely popular with the his end of beginning song. And so I haven't listened to his music, but good for him, man. It's it's I like it, it's pretty catchy, but that song specifically, I mean, it was on has over a billion listens on Spotify. It was like number one uh in terms of streaming for quite a while. Very nice. I wouldn't be surprised if it's still up there, but very nice.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

I know um Prince got a huge boost.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, huge boost for Purple Rain.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yeah, wild. I I have that song on what's on one of my favorite playlists.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Did you know that Joe Carey's character was supposed to be written off after season one?

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Yeah, he was supposed to die at the end of one.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, and uh the Duffer brothers just fell in love with Joe so much they said that they had to write him into the rest of the script. I hated him so much in season one. I think everybody did. That was they wrote his character to be that way in the f because he actually auditioned for um name is is drawn a blink, but uh Will's older brother.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Yeah. Yeah, of course he did.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Because he he was a main cast member.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

But um, I just remember at the end of season one when Will's brother goes to drop Nancy off some kind of gift, and you'd kind of felt the tension with them and where it was going. And then she goes back in the house, and Steve was sitting on the couch, and you're like, she stayed with this asshole after all that. And and then it was it was exactly the scene in season two where him and Dustin were walking along the train tracks, yep, and he started giving him tips on how to do his hair with Ferra Fawcett hairspray. And I just remember sitting there thinking, did he just become my favorite character?

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, I think he was a lot of Dustin. Yeah, he was a lot of his favorite.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Understandably, he he was he was the best.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, and all their scenes uh with uh Robin and you know the times that Dustin appears at at you know at Scoops Ahoy, those were great.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Oh, amazing, yeah. Yeah amazing.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, I I I love Steve. I'm gonna miss Steve. Yeah. Hopefully he pops up in other stuff. I just think his role specifically, I would say, out of anybody's in the show is so iconic because of just all the critical acclaim he got. I mean, he he's highly favored, probably as the favorite character for a lot of people. And I'm hoping that doesn't typecast him into not getting other roles, you know?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

I mean, yeah, we'll see. I mean, I'm glad to see he's got the music thing. I I honestly think, I mean, obviously Winona Ryder. You know, besides, you know, Winona Rider's already Winona Rider. Yeah. And I know David Harbour's got things going on.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah, he's part of the Marvel universe, so he'll he'll find the Marvel universe in the next few movies they have.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

But what I was gonna say is I feel like Sadie Sink, who is also now part of the Marvel Universe under whatever role she is in, but I feel like Sadie Sink is the the one who is going to become the star from that group.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I think so too. I think she's gearing up to potentially have maybe like a the the person I immediately think of and maybe give her another ten years, I'd say. Uh I I I just think of Emma Stone right away.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Yeah, I could see that. I could see that. Um, yeah, I I think Maya Hawk is doing really good uh right now, uh but I think she might have more of a career like her dad, where she'll get to a point where we always know who she is. Yeah. But I don't think she'll ever be a big star.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, yeah. And and and I I think the jury is still out on all the all the kids, you know. I don't know if any one of them obviously um L has already been in other movies.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Um Well, and sh and she produces other movies, and I I think but I don't think she necessarily um is really that invested in the movie industry. I think it's just at this point it's another thing she does.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um I she seems like she has a lot of other things going on.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Yeah, I feel like she's a lot more invested in the fashion aspect. But she she's obviously the breakout star, but you know, I I think she has already pulled away in the wrong direction to continue being the breakout star.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, yeah. No, I I can see that um definitely being true. And and obviously, you know, the they have that animated uh series coming out pretty soon for Stranger Things, and supposedly there's some other potential um spin-offs in the works. Um one I I heard about, I don't know if it's true or not. I haven't really like done any investigative work, but I heard of a Steve and Dustin spin-off where like they're private investigators or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

I would 100% fucking watch that show.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yeah, I would too.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Like I was telling Jen, um, if they did a Steve and Dustin spin-off where they're just roommates picking up girls and situation comedy antics, I would watch it. 100%. But the Duffer brothers said that they're uh aside from the animated show, none of those characters are ever coming back in anything.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Oh wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Um well then but I will say uh Millie Bobby Brown made a comment. The actress who plays L. Yes. She made a comment that um she would do a romantic comedy with Florence Pugh. Okay. That's that's like a dream project for her. And if anybody is out there listening, me and my wife Jen already have a great pitch for this. We literally came up with it while having lunch.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

We got the whole thing worked out.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

I'll have to hear this uh offline so nobody steals it.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. Well, why don't you write it write it in and and and pitch it?

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Well well, I don't you don't write down pitches. I'll just go in and you tell them what's up. You you write the you write the word alien on a board, then at the end of it you put a dollar sign. That's how you pitch. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Well, um, yeah, we'll we'll see then. We'll see, we'll see. We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

I might just have to quit my job and go uh pitch hunting over in Los Angeles. Yep, somebody should. All right, so what do you say we uh we get into the topic? It's a pretty special one.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah, it's a special episode. Make sure to tell all the kids at home what we're doing here.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

So with the release of The Odyssey coming, we have decided to do two special episodes. Uh we're not gonna uh disclose uh number two yet, but today's episode is actually gonna be ranking uh Christopher Nolan's movies. So he has 12 on his roster, yes, uh not including any uh small tidbits he did uh here and there. We're talking about uh official motion picture releases, uh and uh we have the privilege of each of us uh organizing uh his list uh in the top 12. So today's episode is gonna be us discussing where those movies lie in our list, and also just kind of talking a little bit about the movies themselves. I know we have talked extensively about some of the movies, uh, but for uh we're we're we're gonna talk about all 12 again because I think it's really important, and the movies on his list deserve to be talked about anytime you want to talk about them.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

I would like to point out you made when we were sitting down last week really looking at our lists before we got into all this, you made an excellent point.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Do you remember what you said? Dude, I I don't even remember what I what I had for breakfast sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Okay, fair enough. Well, I'm gonna make the point then because I was like, make sure you remember that, because it was a great point. And this is irrespective of where we put any of these movies on this list. But obviously, Christopher Nolan released Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Correct. Oh, I remember the point now.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah. And in between those movies, he did The Prestige, Inception, and then Interstellar. Oh goodness. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Oh my gosh. Just the just the sheer uh thought process and attention that each of those movies takes, and to do them in almost back-to-back years or every other year's or a year and a half to two years is to me is mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Yeah, it was uh it was about a year and a half between each movie, maybe. Maybe two.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Goodness, that is I mean, like we talked about, that might be the greatest run from a director ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Yeah. Well, because because yeah, it was like I know like there was like four years, I think, between the Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

But in the middle of that, he did Inception.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Yeah, it it it it's it's pretty it's pr it's pretty nuts. That's very nuts. Yeah. I don't know. Uh it it I'm just trying to put that into words. I I don't know what else to say about it. It's it's it's just so impressive.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

That's very impressive. I I'd be shocked to see if anybody else could point out a run that solid. Like that's a that's a seven-movie run.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Not counting everything else he's done.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

That's a seven-movie run of quality.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah. Yeah. No, I I agree. And and and you know what? For that reason, too, I wouldn't go as far as to say ever that any movie he's done is bad. And I think that's why this list is so difficult.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

I mean, I have I have nitpicks with a couple movies. I I don't know. This is what I will say. I I wouldn't say all of his movies are good, but I would say that all of his movies are experiences.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

They're all amazingly directed, amazingly cast, and amazingly put together.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, I would agree. I would agree.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

So, shall we? Yes. Uh the question is, who who's uh who's doing the main list? I'd like to hear your main list, if that's you want to do yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

So I'm doing the list. Okay. Yeah. I don't think it really matters, uh, because I think we're gonna go through the list and we will give you our lists in order at the end of the episode. Yeah. But uh I wouldn't I wouldn't mind if you don't mind to to to run from your list, so to say. Okay, that's fine. I'm starting at the bottom, correct? Yes, yes, the bottom is our starting point. All right. Numero Numero Dose.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Okay, so for my number 12 pick, I went with Christopher Nolan's first movie, which would be following.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

I actually have following as number 12 as well. Did so you actually did watch it? I started it. You started it. I didn't get a chance to finish it. Um and that's probably the only reason I put it down there. I haven't gotten a chance to get all the way through it. I know it was a low budget kind of indie film that he started with.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Um I believe it took him about two or three years to make that movie. Okay. If I remember correctly. Like it was one of those movies like he was shooting on weekends, and all the actors in the movie are actors, but I think they're also friends of his.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Gotcha. It makes sense. So Yeah, I I mean, I still think you see some of the thematical elements that he's known for now at Inception in in tidbits of the movie, at least from my ex my experience of like, I don't know, the first maybe 20 or 30 minutes of it. You know, um, the way he he stages characters and uh, you know, the sequences of dialogue and things like that. Um I I actually really liked the story. I it reminded me a little bit of the conversation in some ways. Um just because there's this following going on um and and where you know he he is um at least you know the premise of the movie where he kind of becomes uh you know, uh, from what I've read, obsessed with this with this character that's a thief. And um, but you see his um just some of the elements that he's he's known for, I think, at a at a very small scale of uh of inception and tidbits of this movie as it starts.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

If I'm not mistaken, you've seen this movie more recently, or at least the first 30 minutes, yeah, than I have. I saw this 20 years ago. Okay. But uh it's on it's on Tubi.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

It's it's also in the Criterion collection. Actually, I read that. I actually read that a few days ago, um, that it that it's that it's in there.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

I I think that's also largely because that's the probably one of the only two movies of his that is not owned by a major studio and is more invested in making money off of physical releases than let the criterion collection have a have a crack at it. Yeah. But um, if I'm not mistaken, isn't the main character's name Cobb? Uh yes. Which is DiCaprio's name in Inception. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

So okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

There's that. Oh, okay. I didn't think of that.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Yeah. I remember seeing Inception and thinking, oh, he used Cobb again.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I wonder if there's any connection there. Probably not.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Sure it is. It's it's probably just a name he likes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Could be.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

But um, yeah, I I remember uh when Memento came out uh in 2001, 2000, 2001.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

And that was one of those mind-blowing movies that all us film school kids loved, and then they're like, hey, you know, this guy has another movie, and so we all watched Following. Uh, I had actually read the screenplay first because that was back in the day where they used to release the screenplays.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

And I believe it came in a two-pack with Memento, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, nice. So I got both screenplays, and I read Following, and then I saw the movie, and I was real I thought the screenplay was great.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

And that's what you expect from Nolan. He uh his screenplays seem to always be pretty fantastic, and um I I wouldn't I wouldn't consider it anything else, uh, even from his first movie. I think to him, and I know he writes a lot of the screenplays with his brother, if I'm not mistaken, at least in quite a bit, yeah. Yeah, um, but um, but yeah, I mean it it's it's yeah, it's it's great.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Yeah, so the the movie I felt was you know not great, but at the same time, you know, it was one of those situations where, like I said, if I remember correctly, it took about two years to film the movie, you know, shooting on weekends, so you can't help but not be 100% in it. Yeah. You know, so I feel like I felt that in the movie. If he would have been able to shoot that movie in a straight three-week period, it might feel different and probably be a better movie.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, he wasn't uh, like you said, uh completely invested in it. And I mean it makes sense because anytime you you have all the backing and everything you need to just focus on art directly, it's bound to be a better movie just just because of that.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah, but it's it's a bit like uh Mean Streets. Like, have you ever seen Mean Streets, Martin Scorsese's first real movie?

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah, it's been a long time. I think it was probably one that I watched when I was at Blockbuster, so it's been at least 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

I mean it's a good movie, but it's really low on my Martin Scorsese ranking.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

So, you know, sometimes the first movie is his best movie. And this was just, you know, he it was a warm-up, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

So that's how I felt. Nope. Yeah, I I agree. Uh at some point I'll I'll I'll get to finishing it because I, you know, I f I feel like I owe it to the movie to watch all of it, you know?

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Yeah, no, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

And once again, it's not a bad movie. No. It's just not up to that quality. Yeah. No. Agreed. Which brings me to number 11 if you're ready. I am ready. Go for it. Uh, so my number 11 is gonna be Dunkirk. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Where where'd that wind up on your list? Dunkirk uh winded up as number 10 on my list.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Okay, so we're not far off on that one.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

We're not far off at all.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

It it was a beautifully shot movie.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah, it it it it it really was, and the the music and the sound design and uh you know the set design was was brilliant. Some of the acting is great. Mm-hmm. Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

That movie I'm pretty sure I fell asleep during in the movie theater.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I I'm almost positive. Yeah, I mean it has a a a pretty stellar cast when you think of it. I think obviously Harry Stiles is incredibly impressive.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

I couldn't remember, I couldn't have picked him, like even at the time. I don't know who he is from his music career. So when I got to the movie, I had no idea who he was, and I couldn't tell him apart from most of the cast.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Gotcha. Yeah, he was famous because he was part of One Direction, that boy band.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

Yeah, and he's been in things. So now that I've seen him in other things, maybe I'd be able to tell who he was on a second viewing of Dunkirk. But yeah, at the time, part of the problem also with that is his character didn't feel like a main character.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

But it felt like he was supposed to be the main character.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

You know, that's one of those movies that I know I feel like there's no real one character that I felt grabbed or commanded the screen more than anybody else. If if there is one, maybe I I I could say Mark Rylance. Uh he uh you know, I really loved his time on the screen. Yeah. Um uh there's Kenneth Yeah, I mean there's Kenneth Branagh, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Well, I I feel like on the boat they had Mark Rylance, Barry Keegan, yes, and Killian Murphy.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

And that whole drama was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

It was, it was very good with Killian Murphy playing the uh the soldier.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Yeah, and that's all great. And then they had Tom Hardy in the plane.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Correct. As the pilot.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Which I really wanted to be into, but I was not.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Well, I mean, you never I feel like that's a very strong B character for Tom Hardy, but you never he he never really obviously makes it outside of those scenes. And so he's limited to what he can do, uh, I think both physically because of his space, he his entire sequences are in the in as the pilot of the plane, right? And so it it for his time on screen, I think it's he's very important to the story, obviously, for the time he spends in the air and what he does. Uh, but there's really only so much he can do as that character, I think.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Yes, but then I saw a movie where he just drove a car and talked on a cell phone for an hour and forty minutes. That he was awesome in that movie. So I feel like that wasn't his fault that he wasn't interested in Dunkirk. No, no. Um, and then we get to the land portion, which is what I'm really alluding to, where we don't have a main character, but we have two main characters on the land portion. One of them is Harry Stiles, who's going through all the war bits, and then you got Kenneth Branagh trying to get all these people safely off the island. And I feel like they should have focused more on Kenneth Branagh's character and what he was doing. And I get that they didn't want to do that because then you wouldn't have got to see all the other, you know, like the the boat sinking, you wouldn't have had the inside of the boat sequence. Yeah. I just felt like, you know, we got the the little boat with Mark Mark Rylance's boat. We got Tom Hardy in the plane, and then on land we had too much going on, and none of it was really that interesting because it was too spread out.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah. Um, no, I I would agree. I I I I felt like Dunkirk kind of aside from the musical score and the cinematography and a few other tidbits, um, the acting was good. I felt like just the way the movie was written, I think it left me wanting a little more.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

I was so excited for it.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

I was too. I I love anything related to wartime movies, and so I was incredibly excited when it it came out. And I recall it being a a spectacle watching it in theater. It was it was brilliant to see on the big screen.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Uh but when I watched it a second time, I I I I just felt like something missed the mark. I don't know, you know, what I can put my finger on per se, but I I just felt like I I was left wanting more from the movie.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Yeah. I I remember and and this is in direct competition with the Odyssey in this because what's the big complaint I have with the Odyssey going into the Odyssey? It's the trailer so far. Is the trailer. You know what trailer kicks ass? Hmm. The trailer for Dunkirk. Man, now that's how you make a trailer. Like I was so jazzed to see that movie. That trailer looked fucking phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. I I just didn't I didn't dig the movie. Like, I've been in those situations where you go see a movie and you probably shouldn't have gone to see a movie. And you start feeling yourself getting tired. I I remember going to see Master and Commander, The Far Side of the World, which is like a two-hour and forty-five-minute war movie on the high seas. Yeah, it's in it's uh in the 1800s.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yeah, it it that's an intense movie to sit through.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

But the moment it started, I started to get hungry. And instead of running out to the lobby and grabbing a hot dog and coming back, I sat there the whole time and I was starving by the end of the movie, and I did not have a great experience.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah. And and so maybe maybe it's time to give Dunkirk another try.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Maybe I do need to give Dunkirk another try. I mean, Paul Giamatti says it's his favorite Christopher Nolan movie.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

I know, and that's kind of like one of those things where it it's like, man, I I I I love Paul so much that I yeah, I feel like I'm I'm I'm letting him down even though. Don't know me by not holding this movie in higher acclaim. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Well, once again, he seems like such a smart guy. Yeah, I know. And I'm like, he must know something I don't. So may maybe I need to give Dunkirk another shot. I mean, it got eight nominations. Well, yeah, but just because it got eight nominations, I mean, obviously go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

One for the things we're talking about, you know, sound editing, sound mixing, film editing. It was nominated for best picture and best director, which Nolan generally is. It's kind of like a given, it seems like nowadays.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Well, well, now, and that's something I'm gonna get to later.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

That's something to later.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Do you think did the the nonlinear story kind of take you out of the movie at times? Do you think?

SPEAKER_03 44:50

I wouldn't say so, because that I mean, obviously, you know, Nolan has other movies that are non-linear and do odd things with storytelling. And those movies are obviously at that this point higher on my list than Dunkirk are. So I don't think so. Um, I I don't usually mind those kind of movies. I don't either. I I'm trying to think of a movie. I know there there's one movie, uh, I can't think of which one it is, but there's I know there's a movie where you go through the whole movie and then you realize that a lot of it was a flashback and you never knew. And it's kind of a rug pull moment where you're like, wait a minute. So that doesn't bother me. Like, if if done right, that kind of shit gets me. Like I just like I said, I felt like there was too much going on and you didn't give me anything really, you know, like have you ever seen a bridge too far?

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Uh I can't think of it off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

It it's it's a war movie from the 70s. I can't remember all of who's in it. I think Sean Connery's in it. Pretty sure Anthony Hopkins is in it. You know, it's an old British movie from the 70s, and you know, it's one of those old war movies where they got like 15 fucking people in the movie and they're all doing this or doing that, like this guy's over here and this guy's over there. And I don't mind that. Uh it was just the way this one was told for some reason. The the most interesting part of the movie for me was on Mark Rylance's boat, and that was the one place I wanted to be at the least. Does that make sense? Yeah. So moving on? Moving on.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Let's hear the next one. Okay, number 10. Tenet. I have tenant at number nine. Okay, so once again, we're not far off. No, and and and here's the thing. I really like Tenet. Okay. I really like it. Um I just couldn't put it above other movies that I really like. Okay. I think I'm, you know, a a lot of people, you know, for a a lot of different reasons, dislike Tenet. A lot of people think that uh David Washington wasn't a good choice. They don't like the the sound editing, obviously, because the dialogue is really hard to hear.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

The sound editing was one of mine. Uh the John David Washington, like I will say, he doesn't come across all the time like the leading man that they're trying to push him as. But I didn't mind him in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

I thought he was really great. Um, I also think he's really great in the creator as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Which I still need to see. That was one. It's because of the conflicting reports. Some I've had a couple people tell me, Wade, this is fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

It's a cool movie, dude.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

And then I've had other people go, This is a total piece of shit.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Um, it has I feel like it has a lot of elements of like District 9 in it. And um, that's one movie I I think of um, you know, when when I think of that movie, and interesting um has different tidbits of other, you know, concepts and things like that that makes me think of other movies, but I I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Yeah, uh you were one of the ones who told me it was great.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

And yeah. My brother was one of the ones who told me it was a total piece of shit, and I don't really trust his opinion on a lot of it. You know, so sometimes he'll be like, this movie's a total piece of shit. And I'm like, okay, but he can't articulate why. He just hated it for X, Y, or Z reason.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

And then I watched it later and I'm like, oh, this was great. So let's let's talk about what you did like about Tenet. Well, I liked the casting, I really liked the casting. Um I liked the spy elements of it. I did too. I really liked that. I thought Kenneth Brana was a great choice to play, like that kind of Bond villain that they were going for. Mm-hmm. And I liked the idea of it. I just didn't feel like the execution was there, and maybe that is because the sound editing was really bad. Like, I must uh because this is the only one I didn't get to see in a theater. Oh, okay. This is the only one of his movies I never got to see in a theater because well, aside from the following, of course.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

But since Memento and he became who he is, yeah. I've seen all of them except for this movie. Because it came out around COVID, you know, we were like, we're gonna put this in theaters, even though everybody should not go to the theater right now. So it was that kind of situation. So I didn't get to see it. So I watched it at home, me and Jen watched it, and at a certain point, in within the first 45 minutes, I had stopped and gone back so many times to try to understand the dialogue and hear it. Yeah. That Jen finally said, We're not doing that again. But it was it was hard to hear, so the story was hard to follow.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Yeah. It's one of those movies that probably um might do some good to watch with subtitles. If and next time I do if your um sound system can't uh deliberately, you know, uh divide the the dialogue with uh a lot of the musical sequences.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Um I know I I saw it in theaters and I think um that was a lot of people's complaint about the dialogue. Um I own it and I've seen it at home uh numerous times just because I think that movie is a movie like Inception where you can catch a lot of different things on a second or third or fourth watch and piece the story together just like I've done with specific sequences, like understanding who uh Robert Pattons' character is throughout the movie, you know? Um, and um making assumptions uh about like where those characters also show up in other parts of the movie, right? Because it's all intertwined in some way. Um I mean, it took Nolan a hell of a long time to write this movie. Interesting. Yeah, like many, many, many years.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

I thought the plot, as I could understand it, was very complicated and not very clear. Whereas there was one scene, the the one bit of dialogue that we were able to understand is there was a scene where Elizabeth DeBecki, who is great, all right. She's fantastic, yep, where she's talking about Kenneth Branagh cheating on her. I'm driving the boat up to the yacht, and I see this woman jump off the front of the ship, and I knew he was with somebody else. And Jen turned to me, she's like, It's her from the future. And I was like, Well, yeah, of course it is. So it's like it was such a complicated movie, but then when they would put these twists in there, we saw them coming from the grandstands. Yeah. You know? And the the the major twist of the story, I feel like, wasn't really a twist because there was no way you could have seen that coming because it was too convoluted.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Yeah, yeah. No, I I agree. Um, I agree with you that the script is definitely uh hard to follow at times, but also I think Nola did something right if we can understand the twists and turns of the movie. Now, some of the things like like I had mentioned with specifically Robert Pattinson's character, where I've made the conclusion that obviously he's traveling through, you know, through time back and forth, but he's also like the little kid at the end of the movie, you know, that John David Washington's character's is is trying to protect before they kill him. So I think that's that. Yeah. Well, that's the assumption I made. Um Okay. And so I think it's it's uh I've caught things as I've watched them various times, or or I and I don't know if they're true or not, but those are just things that I've drawn to conclusion from watching the movie, right? Um I think from a technical and production standpoint, the movie's brilliant. What they do is it's a feat. Uh and and and and just knowing that, like, for example, the scene uh, you know, in that long hallway, like that's not a CGI hallway. Like Nolan had somebody hand paint that entire hallway, you know?

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Um, or like the scenes with the with the car chase, which is one of the coolest car chases ever done in a movie. He filmed that that car chase in one direction and then backwards in the other direction, and then spliced the two scenes together, which is freaking cool. Very impressive. It's impressive. So from a technical standpoint, the movie is standout. Uh and I think that's why I enjoy it so much. And Ludwig's score is phenomenal. I I I think you can if you silent the dialogue and watch that movie as strictly just a a technical piece with the score behind it, it's a brilliant film. As like a silent movie, you know? Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Yeah. Uh going back to the uh practical effects work of that movie, there is the scene, and I forget the particular of what's going on, but they they crash a plane into the side of the building.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah, they actually crashed a plane inside of a building.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

Yeah, they actually crashed the plane. I remember that was part of the promotion for the movie ahead of time, and Robert Pattinson saying that at one point during the CGI planning of that sequence, Christopher Nolan finally said, wouldn't it be cheaper just to crash a plane into a building? So that's what they did. Yeah, I just and only Christopher Nolan could get away with that. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody else would have been told, no, you're gonna fucking do this in a computer and you're gonna live with it. Yeah, exactly. I don't care how much more expensive it is.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

So that is way cool.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Yeah, it it's very cool. Um, yeah, I think uh yeah, the cast is phenomenal. Um, there's a lot of great dialogue sequences, you know, that are understood, like John David Washington's uh, you know, uh individual individual conversations with Debecki or Pattinson or Kenneth Branagh or um uh John David Washington's characters uh when he's talking to uh Priya, right, played by Dimple Capatia. Um those sequences I think are are really really intense when you know they're they're they're tenant conversations, right? When they make the hand sequences and when they're they're scaling the building when they first meet. Um all I thought that was all really cool.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

What what's what's the name I I hate myself for get for forgetting his name. Sutton Donovan, the guy who gives him the code word at the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Oh uh Martin Donovan. He is such a great character actor. Yes, he is. He's fantastic. I wish I would he'd he'd do more things because the time he's the little time he spent, you know, as the recruiter for John David Washington's character into the tenant program is phenomenal, that scene where they pick him up and drop him off.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

He's always great. I always think of him as the uh the youth pastor in saved. Yeah, yeah. When he runs out on stage and does a backflip.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Yeah, that's good. That's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

I love me some Martin Donovan. Shall we move on? Yes, this is where I feel like we're gonna start having disagreements.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

I would agree. I think probably our number one is gonna be a disagreement. All right. Oh, I can't wait now. Yeah. Um maybe not. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I think it's gonna be a disagreement. I think five through five through nine where we're at. Where we're at, we probably will have disagreements. Um obviously, but I think we're we're right around tracking the same right now with just like one below or one above, right?

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Pretty close. Yeah, we're pretty close right now.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

All right, so my number nine is Oppenheimer.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Okay. Number nine for you is Oppie. Okay. Uh I have Oppenheimer. Our boy Oppie. Yeah, I have it as number six. Number six. Okay. That's much higher than I that's quite impressive that it got that high up there. I still think it's a fantastic movie. I know you have your um disagreements about the film, but I think as a whole, it's it's it's still a really good film. And it has one sequence I think that just blows me away when Killian Murphy is speaking to you know the staff and the families after the successful detonation, and like all their skins are just starting to peel off and stuff like that. And he's like almost like visually, you know, having this hallucination of the horror that is to come from what they're accomplishing. Uh that I mean that scene lives with me from that movie.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

Uh, I felt like the uh test firing was a great sequence.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

There there were some really cool things in that movie, and there were some things that I felt like were a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Yeah. And I if I remember right, I think for you, the biggest piece of waste of time or or time on film that wasn't necessary was Robert Downey Jr.'s character.

SPEAKER_03 58:41

So yeah, I I've kind of alluded to this in the past. You know the whole thing, but I'm just gonna go into it for everybody. And I do want to preface this by saying that Robert Downey Jr. did a fantastic job. He did. And he absolutely deserved to win the Oscar for the performance that he gave. Correct. But we did not need his character in any shape, way, or form. Number one, because Jason Clark, our hero Jason Clark, who we mentioned many times on the show already.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

And how we wish he would just be more prominent and focused in some of these movies.

SPEAKER_03 59:18

He was such a great antagonist already. We didn't need a secret another one. But the problem really comes down to Florence Pugh's character. I mean, granted, I don't know all the history of it, but I know that that relationship was a lot more complex in real life. That for long stretches of time, even though he was married to the Emily Blunt character, he still referred to Florence Pugh's character as his wife.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Yeah, and I think it was pretty evident. Um, they they definitely didn't touch on it too much, and I think that's purposeful because the movie they wanted to they showed multiple times, obviously his initial fascination and in and if you want to call falling in love with her character, but also at later on.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

That was all great.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Yeah, and then the initial meeting and fall in love, great. And obviously they they meet at different points in the future as well. Yeah. Um, so I think they they Nolan alludes to it, but I agree with you from what I've read that they don't put enough emphasis on that relationship and how that might have been the only real relationship that Oppenheimer was ever really attached to.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:40

So my my thing was, like I said, the the initial meeting was fantastic. Everything about that initial meeting is great. And then she becomes really cold to him for some reason in the next sequence, and then she's really sad to see him go in another sequence, and then the next time you see them together, they're both buttass naked and they're basically breaking up, and then she only comes into the story once more, and that's when it is revealed that she may or may not have killed herself.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

So the character arc as it exists in the movie is uh lovable woman to crazy woman, to basically just there for the nudity, to so fucking crazy she kills herself.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

And I feel like they had a large misopportunity with that because they had to make time for Robert Downew Jr.'s character and his Senate oversight committee, which had fuck all to do with the movie. They could have had four to five more scenes, you know, post-sex where he's sitting there bitching about work. So later, when Jason Clark goes, the whole time you were sleeping with her, she was giving this information you were giving her to the Russians. You're like, oh shit, did he accidentally betray his country?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

That's the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

But that's not the movie we get. Instead, we get him trying to poison a professor, which even his kids say that whole fucking thing is ludicrous. We get him deciding, let's put the the test facility here at Los Alamos, and they completely gloss over, basically kicking an entire Native American tribe off that land. As Spike Lee points out, yes, we get that scene where he imagines all those people in front of him melting, but they also don't show what it's like when the bomb gets dropped on anybody in Japan.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

No, it's incredibly worse. And that was actually a side note, that was uh James Cameron kind of uh dislike of Oppenheimer, and so much so that I think his next movie is gonna be about the atomic bomb droppings. Uh so that might be real interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

But then we get this whole business also where they don't really show them making the bomb.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Ah, they they uh I I mean, not the bomb itself, no, the atomic bomb, but I think, I mean, the first long part of the movie is all about the inception of getting to that point, you know, and and the science.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

And there's a lot of scientific dialogue, you know, the first There's a lot of scientific dialogue, but you know they had to give me a flashback at the end of the movie to tell me who the fuck the guy was who was actually the Russian spy.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

And he was in the movie so fucking little, I think he had one line in the movie. He's like, Oh yeah, sir, we're all set to go, and gave him a thumbs up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Yeah, yeah. It would have been and and maybe his his in reality, his role at Los Alamos was that small, who knows? But I think that would have been a much better bomb drop moment for the script if they wrote him in to have a little bit more of a prominent role. So when to and and trick the audience into thinking that this couldn't have been the guy, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

But I I I honestly think it would have been better if they would have made it seem like it really was Florence Pugh the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:24

But by the by the point he's working on the bomb, she's just a crazy naked chick.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:31

And that's all she is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

And you know, I I think we've talked about it too. Uh we both, I think, really feel like they underused Emily Blunt's character. Oh, absolutely. Besides, besides those scenes where she's phenomenal in the interrogation room, where she I mean, she's sh she's amazing in those sequences.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:51

Oh, yeah, she she really is. Like she really got something to do towards the end of that movie, but there was a whole section of movie where she was useless.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Yeah, I would have really liked to see her used more consistently because I just assume that she has more of a prominent role in the real life telling of those, too. You know, absolutely and uh yeah, I I feel like you know, the inclusion of Robert Downey's character, you know, it it plays this political side of how we eventually got to the atomic bomb and the creation of it and things like that. But, you know, I is it important ultimately to the historical? You know, when you think of this moment in history, nobody thinks of Robert Downey Jr.'s character. Maybe people who adamantly, you know, want to know about the intricacies of the entire situation, quite possibly. But the majority of people, I think, really are more interested in the actual bomb and the development of all those things. And I think that's to your point where they could have spent more time on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

I I think they should have. Because the way it is now, because they included all that Robert Downey Jr. shit. Well, you had all the interrogation parts because of it. Well, the interrogation parts we could have had without that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Yeah. But wasn't it his character that is essentially formally going against Oppenheimer and and placing him in those situations?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Yes, but so nobody needs to know that. That's true. Like, we don't need to know that. Somebody, the US government believes that you were accidentally giving, accidentally or purposefully giving information to the Russians.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:38

We don't need to know who said that. Unless you're gonna have him face him at the end, which you don't, you get Han Solo at the end, who gets to give him a zinger.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

Oh, maybe they were talking about something more important than you. Fuck you. I didn't need that. The movie I didn't need that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

I didn't like how that part of the movie ended whatsoever. And it it it in in some way it is um, you know, defaming Robert Downey Jr.'s character, and obviously the sequence in the courtroom is where Poppy gets the upper hand, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

But um But even that, even that, they they had to show that scene to me two times. And the only reason we understand that the first time he took it as a joke, and the second time he didn't take it as a joke is because they had to tell us because the whole thing is out of context, we don't understand what the fuck they're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like the movie is written in two separate sections. You have the the small inclusion of Oppenheimer's backstory that quickly leads into him being the overseer of the program, right? And you have all the the the buildup of the science behind creating the atomic bomb, and then you have the sequence of the creation of the bomb and the notice that it gets dropped, which that small tidbit with him and Truman is fantastic. That was a great scene. Yeah, I I I wish they would have given Oldman more screen time. Not that it's necessary, but I would have loved to I thought he got the right amount.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

I thought he got the right amount. The the one that pisses me off more, aside from the Robert Downey Jr., but it's connected to the Robert Downey Jr. is uh Rami Malik. Yeah. Because Rami Malik comes out of nowhere, had nothing to do in the movie. I don't think he was even in another scene in the movie. He comes in for this one fucking scene and becomes everything more important. He obliterates everything. He's the one who's like, this fucking guy is the guy who did it because he was jealous.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:57

So he gets this big pivotal moment, was nowhere else in the movie, but instantly became more important than Emily Blunt and Florence Pugh put together.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

And I'm just like, the fuck. And so that's those are my problems with the movie. It looked beautiful for three hours, it flew by really quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

It did. The music was great.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:17

I wasn't mad that anyone, the music was great. I wasn't mad that Killian Murphy and Robert Down Jr. won their Oscars.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

And this is my big complaint with the movie, and this is not the movie's fault. This is the Academy's fault. And this is what we were I was alluding to earlier in the show. Uh-huh. Christopher Nolan should have been direct uh best director nominated for Inception. There's no arguing about that. I'm sorry. Nope. If you want to argue with me, then you're wrong. You know, that was the same year that the social network should have won Best Picture and did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:51

But they didn't want to give it to Nolan because it's a sci-fi movie and this and that and whatever. So then he makes Dunkirk, which is a dry historical epic, and then they give him an Oscar nomination. And then we get the Best Picture winning everything, everywhere, all at once. As I've said to you, I was not a big fan of that. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

I would not have voted for it for Best Picture myself. But what I told Jen the night it won, and I stand by this, is even though I don't think this movie should have won Best Picture, I think it's really fucking cool that it won Best Picture because maybe this is a sea change.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

Maybe now they'll start giving Oscars to these big, bold, audacious, weird movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:40

And then the next year, Christopher Nolan directs some historical biopic piece of crap and they give him everything for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

He got everything for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:50

He got everything for it. The driest piece of shit they could find. Oh, he's never gonna do something like this. And honestly, just having seen what I've seen about the Odyssey, I feel like they should have waited and give it to him now. But whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

See, I I think uh Everything Everywhere All at Once was completely deserving of the Oscar. Uh was my favorite movie probably of that year. Uh I and I was blown away, I was blown away emotionally by that movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:19

It emotionally was really good. All the Oscar nominations. I was happy Michelle Yeo won. I was happy Jamie Lee Curtis won. I do believe they deserved it. I, you know, it it is definitely the best movie I've ever seen where somebody got beat nearly to death with a dildo.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

Yeah, that that movie had some weird sequences.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

That had some weird stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:46

But that's my point is we went from that to Oppenheimer.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

No, that's a a comp that's a complete 180.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

Yeah, it's it's like giving it to the king's speech again.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:55

Yeah. And you know, even to this day, like a lot of people consider Oppenheimer Nolan's Magnum opus, and I completely disagree.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:03

Oh, yeah, absolutely not. It's not even his right wheelhouse. Like, it's okay for him to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Yeah. But yeah, you expect that movie done by like uh Ron Howard or you know, some other guy or Ridley Scott or somebody who probably more so Ron Howard or or or or somebody who's used to making historical biopics about real life situations.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

Yeah. Um it's it's like Martin Scorsese, he spent all those years making great film. And I'm not trying to knock this movie. Uh he he eventually won for the departed, which feels like his wheelhouse. Yeah. But giving Christopher Nolan best picture for Oppenheimer, best director, would have been like waiting to give the Oscar to Martin Scorsese for silence. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:58

Yeah, I get what you're saying. There's there's directors that make movies that should be given best picture because that is the best version of themselves for a specific type of movie that they make the best.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:12

Yeah. Nolan does some audacious wild movies, and he should have been honored for that. Instead, I got, you know, Robert Downey Jr. being jealous. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

That's alright. That's alright. So enough of uh Oppie and Robert. Uh go ahead and uh Robert and Oppie.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:32

See, I'd watch that movie. Go ahead and give me your number eight. Number number eight hurt my heart a little bit to put it this low. Ooh, this is gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

But the Dark Knight Rises. Okay. You're you're really gonna be hurt by me because I put that at number 11.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

Okay. Wow, yeah. All right. Why why so low? Why are you so serious, Adrian?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

Um, I don't know. I don't know. I I I wouldn't say I I necessarily liked it better than the other movies I have above it. I thought Dark Knight Rises was elaborate and big, if that's a word I could use. It it was a feat. It had it had a large scope, I would say, yes. Yeah. I loved Tom Hardy as Bane. Uh agreed. The story was fantastic. I I felt like the movie kind of trickled off towards the end. Like I felt like it ran out of a little bit of juice. Um, uh, but I can't say I enjoy it more than Tennet or Dunkirk. Um, and maybe that's just because uh I appreciate Dun Dunkirk for it being a historical drama as much as I appreciate Oppenheimer for being a a historical drama because uh I really enjoy the topic of history when we get to see it in cinema. And I think I just gravitate more to those. Um and like I said, like I don't feel like, in my opinion, any movie of Chris Fernolens I can consider bad. Like Dark Knight Rises can easily be much higher on my list. I just don't necessarily enjoy it as much as some of the other ones I put before it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

Yeah. My my issue with it, um it's it's a lot like my complaints with Terminator 2. You know, like my argument always is because people, oh well, Terminator 2 is so much better than Terminator 1. Yes and no, because without Terminator 1, Terminator 2 makes no sense. That's true. So in order to enjoy, because I feel like you can enjoy Batman Begins, and I feel like you can enjoy the Dark Knight on their own. Absolutely. But you need both of those movies to enjoy the Dark Knight Rises.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

Absolutely. And quite frankly, the Dark Knight ended on a point where they didn't necessarily need to make another movie. Because it ends with with Batman running off and being, you know, okayed by Commissioner Gordon to become, you know, the the hero that is a visual ante now. Um but the way that movie sends off Batman, you don't need to make a third movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:12

So David S. Goyer, who co-wrote the stories, so David S. Goyer wrote the screenplay for Batman Begins with Nolan, and then he laid the groundwork that Nolan and his brother Jonathan used for the scripts for two and three. Gotcha. But the original plan for two and three, the way I understand it, I know we've talked about this before, how everyone thinks the Joker was supposed to be the villain in three and it was gonna be the trial of the Joker. But the way I've heard David S. Goyer say it is the second movie was all about the Joker.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:49

And at the end, Harvey Dent would become Two Face, and Two Face would have been the villain in three. I would have liked that. And Christopher Nolan didn't feel like they needed that, and so it all became one perfect movie. Yeah. And then, you know, for three, they had to make up like a whole new storyline, and I feel like it gets away from them, and I feel like where they made the mistake was instead of making a third movie that connected to one and two the way two connected to one, they tried to make it an overarching story, which never works, and they tied the League of Shadows back into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

Yeah, with Marion Coldlard's character.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:31

And I don't think they needed that. And I think it makes the movie too big and too unwieldy.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:38

Yeah, it they de I think they definitely aimed for aimed for the moon, you know, with this one. Um and I I really feel it it's it's now don't get me wrong, Batman Begins and The Dark Kn are great movies, but they're also very contained, right? And I think this is this is what you're alluding to. The Dark Knight Rises, it just feels too big for the trilogy of what Nolan's Batman's um set up in one and two, right? I I I yeah it it it just it's very elaborate, it's very elaborate.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

I liked that they tried to make big, I liked that it was like the big finish, and I appreciated that. You already have Bane, you already have Catwoman.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:22

And I felt Tali Al Ghoul was shoehorned into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:27

And yeah, it just it just felt like too much. And like I said, like when those movies came out, I was all about 'em. And the more I see them and the older I get, the more I see the scars. But I feel like the scars were right there front and center the first time I saw this movie. Yeah. And they they weren't as well hidden.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

And I agree. And like we've talked about before, the Dark Knight is a perfect movie, and that is Mount Everest. And it's really hard to follow up another movie, let alone another Batman movie, after that. And maybe that's why they they wanted to make it big and elaborate, because how are you gonna top the Dark Knight? I it's it seems impossible.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:14

I was fine with a lot of the stuff, you know, like you got the bomb on Gotham, you know, it's gonna go off, you know, all that stuff I was cool with. Mm-hmm. It it just felt like there was a little too much going on, and yeah, I don't know. I felt like Bane was a pretty imposing figure all on his own. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And they didn't need to bring back the League of Shadows.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:36

Yeah. They could have written a storyline where there didn't need to be a connection between Courtillard's character and Tom Hardy's character to make uh the enemy work.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:49

Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:51

So I I do enjoy that movie, but yeah, it's it's uh low on the Nolan movies that I really enjoy. We'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

Yeah. I I think unfortunately it's it's sometimes forgettable. Everybody talks about Batman begins in the dark night, and then I think people just forget to talk about the dark night rises because it it it falls by the Y side when you compare it to the first two.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:16

Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Let's go with number seven, Wade.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

Now, number six and number seven were the ones I had the hardest time deciding on. Okay. Like the bottom five for me were super easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:32

And I knew what the top five were gonna be. I had to do some shuffling.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:37

But six and seven were a hard, a hard choice. Okay. Like I knew these two movies were my six and seven, but number seven I went with Interstellar.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

Oh man. I feel like I need to end this conversation right here.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:52

I know you're a big Interstellar guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

That's my number one. That's number one. That's number one for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:59

All right. So I see so so let me let me tell you why I why it hit number seven for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:06

I think that's good because in another episode I talked about all the reasons why Interstellar was number one for me. And I don't really feel like I need to get too much into that again. But I I I I think understanding your point of view as to why you you put it at number seven is probably more interesting for the audience to to hear.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:26

So, spoilers, but and I know I've said this to people before, and I always get the same shocked look. And I may have said this to you and gotten the shock look in the past. I can't remember if you were, but I know I've gotten this shock look from people before. But they have a scene early in the movie where Matthew McConaughey's really young daughter is talking about the ghost who lives in her bedroom. And going into the movie, knowing that it was about space travel and relativity and the black holes and all that business, I was just like, Well, it's him. You know, like I knew that the moment they brought up the ghost that lives in her bedroom was Matthew McConaughey from the future. Yeah. Like I did I didn't know why he was there and what he was trying to tell her. Like, don't get me wrong, I was I didn't see the whole movie coming, but I knew he was gonna be the ghost. Yeah, I had no idea. When I tell people that, they act like I'm trying to say, Oh, I knew that it was Gwenneth Paltrose head in the box. And I'm like, no, man, it's fucking pretty obvious that he was the ghost. And I thought the movie was great, it's a really good movie. The moment he goes through the black hole, like when he sacrifices himself, quote unquote, and falls through the black hole and then winds up in the Tesseract and is leaving her the clues and the all that shit could fuck right off. Okay. Uh I couldn't stand any of that. Who built this thing? Well, we we must have in the future. Get out of here with all that. Maybe that's scientifically accurate, but from an audience standpoint, that also sounds like convenient bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:21

Yeah. I could see that.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:23

And then I'm gonna give you one more the final nail in the coffin, where I was like, whatever, man. He falls through the black hole, winds up far in the future, his daughter is dying of old age, he's got grandkids who have kids, you know? And she tells him that Anne Hathaway is still out there waiting for him. And he steals the plane. And yeah, I get it. That I want him to go with her too. I would want to go. But is she gonna be alive when he gets there? How old is she now?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:56

They make it seem like she's just as old as she was when she she went through before, but well, realistically, she probably is because they both passed through Gargantua and the other planets equally uh during time. Here's the thing, though, they don't really explain like what happened when he went through the back hole and the time variance with that sequence. Um, and yeah, you're you're right though. How would that relate to Anne Hathaway's character? I don't necessarily it's think it's it's important to the story, but because we also don't know if like the planet that Anne Hathaway is on right now, and maybe they did talk about it, but I I'm forgetting, but maybe she's aging slower because Yeah, they definitely didn't talk about any of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:42

Like, how far away is she in relation to where they are right now? He's still in this little ship. Does he have enough gas to get there?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:50

Well, she's on the other planet that they discussed when they chose to go to Matt Damon's planet instead.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:58

But where is that in relation to where he is on that spaceship at the end of that movie? Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:05

I would assume uh theoretically possible to get to, if not he wouldn't have taken the ship.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:10

Well well, yeah, and that's my thing, is that you know, it's all just theory and you know, like stuff we have to guess at. And really, in my mind, he's gonna show up and she's 93 years old, and you know, it's just he's in the same boat again, you know, he's gonna be there just long enough for her to die and barrier.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:27

Yeah, possibly. It's I think it's left up I I think it's left up to the viewer's interpretation, really.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:32

It it is, and I feel like that was a bad time to do that. Like, you know, I'm I'm a fan of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:38

I mean, there's a whole theory that uh Matt Damon I mean, sorry, not Matt Damon, I'm gonna say that again. There's a whole theory that Matthew McConaughey's Matt Damon. I guess we gotta leave it in now because Matt Damon.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

His name was Dr. Mann.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:59

Although that was a great reveal.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:01

That was a fantastic reveal.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:03

Yeah. I don't think any anybody expected that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:06

And when he flat out tells them, oh no, yeah, Michael Cain lied to you the whole time, the plan was always to just leave samples here and let life grow. Like it was never to bring humanity somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:21

Fucking great.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:22

Yeah, it was good. Um, there's this theory though, because the start of the movie starts with what seems to be a plane crash or something happening, right? And they showed that exact scene later on in the movie, but there's this theory that Matthew McConaughey's character is actually dead from the start of the movie. Hmm. Interesting. And all of it is just uh an imagination type thing, or his recounting of, yeah, I don't know if I like it either. That's why I guess it's just a theory that's never been confirmed, but you should look it up. It's it's kind of it's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:57

I'll look it up. Uh we're gonna try we're gonna try to speed through this without speeding through this at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

Yeah. Well, I I think we've talked enough about uh Intercellar that we can we can move on because there's some other ones that we we definitely need to talk about. So for my number six, I went with Batman Begins.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:15

Okay. Batman begins.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:19

And you know, that also has issues. The older I get. Yeah. I have Batman Begins at number eight. Number eight, yeah. That makes sense. It's got issues, but man, I felt like a kid again the first time I watched that movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:36

Which which is why it got so high on my list. The scene at the end after, you know, the fear toxin is all over Arkham Island, or the the the the narrows, whatever they call it.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:49

And um, you know, he basically tells Rachel that he's Bruce Wayne without telling her he's Bruce Wayne, and then he jumps off the building and he's flying over. Over the streets and everyone's looking up and freaking out, and that great Hans Zimmer song is playing. I got I oh man. Goosebumps. I felt like such a kid the first time I saw that. And yeah, so it's got a little bit of a special place for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:16

Oh no, absolutely. That sequence that you're specifically talking about that because at that point, in my opinion, he becomes Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:25

Yeah, that's that's the real moment where he becomes Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:28

And that's one of the best sequences with that Hans Zimmer music in any Batman movie, in my opinion. Yeah. It's it's it gives me goosebumps just talking about it now because I I had the same emotional response as you did when he jumps off that roof and just you know, but it it's also I think it's also symbolic because people are looking at him as this terrorizing force. Obviously, they're under the influence of the of the toxin, but um, you know, which in theory is to me it's symbolic of him being the heroic vigilante, right? Or the vigilante thought of, but he's really a hero. Um, but yeah, that scene is is a masterpiece, that that that single sequence, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:13

Yeah, and I love the inclusion of the scarecrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

That was great.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:17

And I love I've loved the inclusion of him in all three movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:22

I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:23

The way they weaved him into the story. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:26

Yeah, and um, you know, Killian Murphy auditioned for Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:31

He he did audition for Batman. I I'm glad he didn't get it. Me too. I I know that Nolan wanted Heath Ledger for Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:39

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:39

I didn't know that. That was the original thought process. He wanted Heath Ledger, and Heath Ledger told him that superhero movies bored him to tears, so he didn't want any part of it. So when they came to him for the Joker, he was A, interested in the character, yes, and B, he was more interested because he actually enjoyed Batman Begins and thought it was interesting, which it is. It's a very interesting way to tell the story. I like that he's not Batman till like 45 minutes, something like that, into the movie. Where the movie Loses Me is where they do the typical action movie bullshit at the end. Yep. So you got Batman and Razagul fighting on the train, you got Commissioner Gordon trying to knock down the the um the rail, and all that's great, but then they keep cross-cutting to some guy in charge of the water hub and waiting, oh, if they get here, they're gonna blow up the tower, and they're getting closer every second, and they kept cutting to him. Oh god, we're gonna die. I fucking get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

You only gotta show that guy once.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:44

I I don't think they need to show that guy at all because I feel like they had already told me.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:49

Well, yeah, everything is already in complete chaos. They laid the foundation.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:53

Everything's in chaos, and we already know what's gonna happen. Yeah. I didn't need another extraneous character giving me exposition in the middle of an action sequence.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:04

Like, yeah. I didn't care too much for the action sequence either. I feel like maybe they didn't know what to do with the end of the movie, and that was what came of it. Um, I think Liam Neeson did fine, but I I I I didn't care for that end sequence too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:21

Um I like the end sequence, you know, the the whole bit where I'm not gonna kill you, but I don't have to save you. Yeah. That was, I think, in line with Batman. It it was, because it's splitting hairs essentially. Like he's still killing like he killed him. Yeah. But you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:37

It was indirect.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:39

It was indirect, and I enj I enjoyed that aspect of the character because he's already making concessions and I I I did really enjoy that movie at the time. Um, but yeah, I still do enjoy that movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:53

And realistically, there was no other way the movie could end without him fighting Raz Aghoul. Yeah, you had to do that. You had to do that. And uh I think it it fits fine for the story, and you know, I I really love the sequence we talked about when he becomes Batman. And uh I just feel like maybe the I wasn't a fan of the train specifically. I I I don't mind the that the action sequence of him having to defeat Razugul. I I I just thought maybe they could have thought of a better way to do it. Oh, yeah, yeah. But by no means does it take away from the movie, you know, uh in any way.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:30

Yeah, and I'm committing somewhat of blasphemy here because I Katie Holmes was one of my crushes. But I wish they would have cast Maggie Gyllenhaal the first time around.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:41

It's it's it's hard to it's hard to it's hard to contend with Maggie Gyllenhaal, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:46

She's yeah, she she was so good in the second movie, and Katie Holmes was really not that great in the first one.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:53

Yeah, yeah. Maggie Gyllenhaal is fantastic in the second one. Um and maybe we leave her conversation piece for the second one.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:03

When when we get to Dark Knight, but yeah, it was mostly about you know Katie was another unfortunate aspect of that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:11

Yeah, I I feel like I feel like she was underwhelming, like uh that role needed more, and I don't think she quite delivered.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:20

No, I think she sold the end. Yes. You know, like the the whole speech, like this is your mask, sold beautiful. Yeah. But some of the other bits in the movie I wasn't I I didn't buy. So number five. The this is one I feel like in his filmography doesn't get talked about a lot. Okay, okay. But is Insomnia. Ooh, yeah. Uh I saw Insomnia in the theater when it came out. I was already a fan of this guy because I really liked Memento. And I had seen the following, which I thought was okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:55

And man, I thought Insomnia was fucking great. Insomnia is great. I have that as number seven for me. Okay. Uh, but I loved Insomnia. Uh you can never go wrong with Sir Pacino, but um and Martin Donovan. Yes, and Martin Donovan. But um, yeah, you you you Martin Donovan. Um, but yeah, I mean Robin Williams, you know, so good. Hillary Swank, but d to see Robin Williams in a role like that uh is just icing on the cake for me, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:32

I I like how that movie was indirectly about Hillary Swank's integrity.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:39

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:41

Because Al Pacino's her hero, and she doesn't like where the evidence is going, but she follows it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:50

And at the end, you know, she initially is like, I have to arrest this guy, and then at the end, she's like, No, no, no, no, no. I know you didn't really mean to do this. I'm gonna hide evidence. He's like, no, no, no, don't, don't do that. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:06

Brilliant, beautiful. Yeah, and I I I think that kind of plays to a very potentially real situation that happen in everyday lives. Like you're you're you know, you're confronted with dire situations and you have affection that plays a really big role in morality and these different things. You know, how far are you willing to go to protect the people that you care most or hold in highest regard? And at some point, you know, do you do you cross your boundaries to do that?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:39

Yeah. Well, the moment you do it, even if it's for the right reasons, it becomes easier to do it later for the wrong reasons.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:48

Correct, because you can you can justify your actions.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:51

Yeah. So, but man, just some of the writing in that movie, man. You know, they got the scene on the ferry, and Robin Williams is going on about this or that, because he's a writer and he thinks he's so intricate and intelligent and interesting. And Al Pacino tells him, um, he's all like, You're about as mysterious to me as a block toilet is to a plumber. That's fucking great writing, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:20

Yeah, yeah. You know, I and I really do feel like in a lot of aspects, uh, Pacino kind of channeled some of his character role from heat in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:31

A little bit. I I liked that he was very lethargic because he was so fucking tired.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:37

And I love that's one of my favorite sequences when he gets to Alaska and he's going through this adjustment period that he never really quite gets in there over the hill on with you know the daytime and the you know his sleep schedule and all this. And um, I think that's a really big piece of the of the movie, and that I think I think that's why they spend so much time with it, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:58

Yeah. And and it was great because you needed that.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:01

I I don't know. I really dig that movie. I like those kind of movies, those kind of crime dramas. I like that it's about the moral gray. You know, did he mean to shoot his partner? Did he do it by accident? Yeah. And even when she asks him, when Hillary Swank asks him at the end of the movie, did you do it on purpose? He's like, I don't even know anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:22

You know, I I love it. Cause because that's real, you know. It is. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, for for all of you out there who have never seen Insomnia, I highly recommend checking that movie out. Yeah, and that would that was only done three years before Batman begins. So I think so. That's what got him into bed with Warner Brothers.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:41

Yeah, yeah. That was the one. Uh af I think after the the wow factor of Memento in 2000, and that immediately kind of had its own cult following, you know. Yeah. Uh it was a film school movie. Like all those film school geeks like got into it quick. Yeah, exactly. And then and after that, it's kind of, you know, Insomnia comes on the scene and it the rest is history with with his relationship with Warner Brothers.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:07

Yeah, it was yeah, once once he got Insomnia, even though I don't think it did very well, it was only a hop, skip, and a jump to Batman Begins.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:15

Correct. And, you know, it'll be speaking of his relationship with Warner Brothers, it'll be interesting to see where Nolan goes for the future now that you know the acquisition with Netflix and and them wanting to only release movies for 17 days before they go to streaming, you know, all that's really interesting. His last couple have been universal, haven't they? Uh have they? Matt, yeah, probably. You're probably right. I'm pretty sure. I lose track of it sometimes. I just you know, I I I always see Warner Brothers and they're so synonymous with you know all his early movies that I I don't even remember. I know Syncope's always the production company, typically.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:52

Because that's that's his, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:53

Yeah, exactly. Um uh but I I've lost track on uh which ones have been universal lately. I I couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:00

I'm pretty sure starting with Dunkirk, they were universal films. I don't know. I I think I'm right, but I could be wrong. But we should move on.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:11

Yeah, let's move on. And I and and I'm I'm pretty sure you're uh you're you're right with all the universal stuff because I know Oppenheimer was for sure universal. Yeah, is definitely universal. All right, sir. Let's go with your next one. Number four. Number four. And we might have the same number four, but we'll see. Oh, let's see. My number four is the dark knight. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:37

Uh I have The Dark Knight as number two. Of course. Yeah. People people love The Dark Knight, and understandably, it's a great movie. You know, I we talked about how people were like, oh, fucking Heath Ledger is the Joker, and how I kind of got into it, you know, at that teaser trailer without seeing him, and then, you know, once you see him on the commercials, it's like, wow, this guy's really selling it. I remember going to a midnight show. So do I. And everybody went that night. I got tickets for me and a bunch of friends, and there was such an overwhelming need for it. I know they were adding shows. My boss at Blockbuster, Darren, he told me he waited all night to go to like a 6 30 a.m. IMAX show. Oh my gosh. I'm like, okay. But we we went to the midnight, and when he did the disappearing pencil trick, I wanted to stand up and cheer. I almost wanted to leave.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:38

Yeah. That's all you needed to see, right? That whole dialogue sequence. Yeah. And you know what? I love Michael J. White in that little sequence.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:47

Oh, he's great in that little sequence. Eric Roberts was great in that movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:52

Uh, I don't know the other the other mobster, the one with the greasy hair and the leather jacket, but he was really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:59

The way that movie opens up with the bank robbery and they kind of show his face without the makeup on, and then from there go to the the sequence that you're referring to when he's first revealed as the Joker. I mean, he's immediately captivating as the Joker. You just you you can't take your eyes off of it. It's it's probably, in my opinion, one of the single best introductions in cinema history.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:24

I was genuinely surprised the first time I saw that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:29

And he turned out to be the Joker.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:31

Yeah, it uh you don't see Heath, you see the Joker.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:35

Well, no, no, just like I I didn't catch that that was him on the robbery. I didn't get it. So it took me by surprise. Mm-hmm. I was like, well done, guys. Like they got me. Yeah. And then you get that great little scene with William Fickner, who's another one of my favorite character actors, and he's so good as the mobster/slash bank manager.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:58

Great. It it's just certain little things kind of throw me now.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:05

I mean, I I really wish uh Too Faced would have had more time. I think Aaron Eckhart is phenomenal as Harvey Dent.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:12

I I thought he was great, and I think he had just the right amount of time, to be honest with you. My and it's nitpicky, it's the same nitpicky thing I have with the Robert Pattinson Batman.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:24

Which is they have a scene where they throw Maggie Gillenhall out a window, and all Batman does is fall with her.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:33

And somehow they're both okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:36

Like, what? And uh yeah. Going back to Maggie Gillen Hall, she was great. And you know, a lot of her a lot of her screen time, specifically when the first time she encountered the Joker in makeup and in attire was the scene at the party. It was also Michael Cain's first time seeing him in makeup, and they're genuinely scared.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:59

Yeah, Michael Cain supposed to have lines. Oh, really? Michael, like if you freeze frame it when you know they do the wide shot and he comes out of the elevator, the look on Michael Cain's face is totally real. Oh my gosh. He was supposed to have lines in that scene, but he was too in shock.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:20

Yeah. I mean, the way that the whole movie shot, but the way that that scene at the party is shot is it it is really scary. It really feels like it's something that's taking place in real life. Like that's how how riveting the the Joker is in that scene. It it really is something.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

He he he really took command of that movie, like every time he's on screen, and I thought his ending was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:45

I agree. I think it was a great way to end the character.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:48

And everyone's like, well, he says, and this goes back to what I was saying about the Dark Knight in the previous episode or The Dark Knight Rises, where people didn't understand that Joseph Gordon Levitt was becoming Batman at the end because they have these preconceived notions, so oh no, the Joker doesn't die, and he says, We're gonna be doing this forever, so he was gonna come back. No, he was never gonna come back. It was just supposed to give you that feeling that this was never gonna end.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:16

Correct. But and you're yeah, I heard, oh, Joseph Gordon Levitt is Robin, or he's Nightwing, or he's this. It's like, no, he's fucking Batman. He got access to the Batcave. You know, he he told he told him where exactly he needed to go.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:33

Yeah, we could go on about that kind of stuff forever. But Matt Maggie was great, Heath was great, everybody's great, Oldman was great. Like I said, it's it's nitpicky stuff. Like when I watch the movie now, you know, the Joker doesn't have a plan because that's chaos. I get it, and that's cool, but he very clearly had a plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:54

Absolutely. And I mean, that the whole sequence with him having, you know, Batman having to choose who to save is brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:01

That that is honestly the best part of the movie because he purposefully gives them the wrong address.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:08

He flips the addresses thinking that they're gonna go to the address to save Harvey Dent.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:15

So that when they show up, all they find is Rachel.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:19

Rachel was not supposed to be the one to die. Well, honestly, like they were both kind of supposed to die, but yeah. But the the point was that they were supposed to go for Rachel thinking they were going for Harvey Dent.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:32

And the only and you know, he doesn't realize that Batman doesn't give a shit about saving Harvey Dent in that instance. Oh no, that's why Harvey Dent survives.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:41

Yep. But you we can nitpick the small things, like you said, but if every time we do that, you got you gotta think of another scene, like the scene when they have when Batman is interrogating Joker. That's a classic. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:55

I mean uh The problem is, and what it comes down to is the Joker very clearly had a plan, a very intricate plan. And if one little thing wouldn't have gone right, none of it would have worked.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:09

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:09

And that's where you get into the problems with that movie. But it it was a really good movie, and I love that movie. Yep, agreed. But I had some nitpicky things, so it wound up in fourth.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:22

Okay. Well, let's move on. Let's let's go to top three, which is interesting. So, just for the viewers, what we have left in the top three are Memento, the prestige, and Inception. Those are the top three left. Those are the top three, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:40

Those are Wade's top three. Number three is gonna be the prestige.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:45

Okay. I have prestige as number four.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:48

Okay, all right. So so I've mentioned the prestige as one of my favorite book adaptations. So why don't you tell us why you put it number four?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:00

I think the prestige, I think it's a a beautiful movie. The music is great, the cinematography is amazing. I think the the writing of the story is incredible. Um I did not uh catch the the secret or the re you know the reveal. I didn't see that coming. So I was floored when when that happened. Um I think everybody plays their roles perfectly. Um who really impressed me the most, I think, is probably I really loved Hugh Jackman. Oh, he was great. Um, I mean, set aside Christian Bale because he's good in everything he does. I don't feel like I need to talk about him so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:46

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:46

But uh I really liked Rebecca Hall too. Oh, Rebecca Hall, though, she's great too, all the time. All the time. But I I I specifically really enjoyed her uh in this movie. I mean, we have David Bowie in it. So good. So good, so good. Uh Andy Circus, I mean, you know so good. And like you said earlier, uh Nolan's castings are always almost near perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:12

Yeah. Scar Scarlett Johansson. I you know, I love Scarlett. I do feel like she's the weak point of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:21

I would agree. I would agree. I I feel like if they would have thrown Rebecca Hall into that role, it would have been a much better movie. Well, I feel like Rebecca Hall was perfect where she was. She was. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that she could have equally done just as good of a role in Scarlett Johansson's character. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:39

I I I I feel like they needed I I feel like Scarlett Johansson was the right area, but I feel like Scarlett Johansson was too big for that part.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:49

Interesting. Who do you think could have if you if you had to throw something off like, you know, as the as your first thought, who who would you have liked to have seen in that role?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:58

I don't know. So so what what I like about Scarlett in that part is, you know, you needed because it needed to be a different from Rebecca Hall. Because, once again, spoilers, but the two brothers needed to have diametrically different love interests.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:17

Rebecca Hall was very normal and very pragmatic. And Scarlett Johansson was very hot and very sexy.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:28

And you needed that difference. And you needed them to be attracted to two different things about them.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:36

So Scarlett Johansson, right pick, wrong time. You know what I mean? I I don't know who I would throw in that part. Um I'm I'm trying to think of anybody off the top of my head, but Yeah, it's tough. It's it's tough. Uh probably somebody British. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:57

I kind of put you on the on the spot.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:00

Put me on the spot there. I don't have a good answer for that. But what I what I love about that movie, uh, once again, going into spoilers here, but I love the subtle reveal of Hugh Jackman as the villain. Yes. I thought that was so fucking well done.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:16

Yeah, it was really well done.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:18

Because the whole movie you're on his side because he's trying to get revenge for this guy killing his wife because he thinks it's Christian Bale's fault his wife is dead. Correct. And when Scarlet Johansson is like, just forget about you know his secret. Like, what's it matter? That's not going to bring your wife back, and he's like, I don't care about my wife, I care about my secret or his secret.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:44

Yeah. And the reveal at the end is freaking crazy, in my opinion. It's the reveal at the end. Good.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:52

So I did see both the reveals coming. Uh-huh. I did see those coming. So I was not shocked by those. But what I loved about it was they told you immediately the plot twist. How does he do it? How does he do it? Michael Cain's like, he's using a fucking double. I just don't think people expected nobody expected that. But Michael Cain called it fucking 20 minutes into the movie. He's using a double. And Hugh Jackman went over here and did all this wild science fiction bullshit to copy this trick. And he he had a double the whole time. It was so simple. He sold his soul to the devil for nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:33

Yeah. Amazing movie. Yeah. But you know, obviously the whole premise with like the bodies being drowned and all that, like that was just all uh super intense.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:45

Oh, and then the the reveal at the end of the movie where he's like, oh well, drowning's like going home, and Michael Cain's like, I lied, he said it was agony. And the, you know, him knowing that he's drowned himself like 20 times or whatever. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:03

Yeah, and you know, Michael Cain's character, you know, you know, he reveals like the final act. It's the prestige, you know. Um, you know, this thought of uh what does he say, something along as of like what was lost or something like that, or I forget exactly how he phrases it, but um um the return or something like that. Well, it's oh I don't remember it exactly, but you know what I'm referring to. But you have to make it come back. Yeah, it's a it's it's a really beautiful monologue piece with him. Yeah. Or dialogue.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:35

He he has a bit in that monologue where he's like, it was there all the time, but you weren't really looking.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:44

And that's a theme throughout the whole movie. You're not really paying attention.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:47

Yeah, well, that's the play on Nolan's script, is that the movie itself is essentially rid written to be a show, but a a a trick to the audience, right? Yeah, it's it's a trick. And and it's brilliant. And and that it's written that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:04

They they tell you though throughout the whole movie, sometimes you're more in love with magic than you're in love with me, because she's talking to the wrong brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:14

All that stuff makes so much more sense once you know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:20

Yeah. Once again, my my biggest fault with that movie is Scarlett Johansson, and I don't even really think it was her fault. I just feel like they needed to get a less well-known actress for that part. I don't I don't know how to put I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:35

I still think about it, I still can't think of anybody. And it's not so much to like go against her like we said, it's just I don't think she fits alongside the other characters all that well.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:47

Yeah. I mean, she still does great. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:50

We we we can both agree that she does.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:54

Yeah, but it's not like you know, like you look at Lawson translation, I wouldn't have taken her out of that movie for anybody. Nope. I I don't care who said they'd do the movie for free.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:06

It had to be her.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:08

And I just I feel like the casting director should have been looking for a Scarlett Johansson type, but not Scarlett Johansson.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:19

Okay, so let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:20

Number two.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:21

Number two, Memento. Where you got Memento on your list?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:26

Number three.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:27

Number three. So we're pretty close on that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:29

We're close on most of these. Uh on a lot of these. The only ones we have contention with are uh not and not too far off, but it Interstellar is the big one. That's the only outlier. Interstellar is really the big one, yeah. I didn't watch Memento until a few years after I got to Blockbuster because somebody recommended it to me. And it instantly became the first movie. Anybody asking, like wanting to see a crazy or like just you know, off the wall but amazing movie, Memento was always my first one to recommend.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:05

I saw that when it came out. I've seen it many times. That's the version of Christopher Nolan I think I love the most. It's hard to contend with Memento. It's it's hard to contend with. It's such a smart, non-linear movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:21

Well, like we said, you know, uh a lot of Nolan's movies are nonlinear.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:25

Yeah, but that that one especially, because it's all told backwards. You know, this this you just start a scene and it gets to the end, and then the next scene starts where the last one ended. Like it was just so so genius, and then they weaved in the the phone conversation and the plot twist that takes you back all the way to the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:50

Genius. You know, and and like we've always said, like, there's an intentionality behind doing black and white, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:55:57

Yeah. And he definitely used it intentionally to show that this is you know, this is the past, this is the present, and then he weaves it together and makes it all one thing. It's such a well-done movie. Guy Pierce is great in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:15

One of his best roles that he's done.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:17

One of his best roles. You know, you know what I love about that movie also is uh Carrie Ann Moss.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:24

And not just her performance, but she's great in that movie. But what I love about that movie is every time she comes on screen, it's like a twist.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:35

Yeah, you have to be cautious and very attentive to what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:40

Yeah, it she's she's never the same person, scene to scene. And it's it's so good. And the writing, there's there's that line in the movie where he's really dealing with his wife's death, and he tells Carrie Ann Moss, How am I supposed to heal if I can't feel time? Oh man. And that's one of the most beautiful lines of dialogue ever written.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:05

Oh man. Yeah. I think uh Joe Pentuliano's great too.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:10

Oh, he's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:12

He's so good. And you know, he's one of those guys that has always been good. Uh he's he's always don't really don't really feel like he he gets much talk, and you know, he's done a lot of B character roles, but um, he's yeah, Joe Pentuliano's fantastic in that movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:29

He he he's really good, you know. Um the the guy who runs the hotel, uh Mark Boone Jr., he's great. He's only in it a couple times, but he's so much he's so much fun. Always get a receipt. J just the idea of the movie. Just the idea of the movie. He tattoos the clues on his body so he remembers. That's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:54

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so many really like introspective things that uh Guy Pierce, uh Leonard Shelby says in that movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:06

Um, that's just hits so deep. Like the one that I remember is uh he's he says memory can change the shape of a room, it can change the color of a car, and memories can be distorted. They're just an interpretation, they're not a record, and they're irrelevant if you have the facts.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:22

Yeah. And that movie that especially hit me at the time because I was in a psychology class in college when interesting. And that movie came out while I was in this class, and they had just talked about that. The professor was talking about how how unreliable memory is.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:42

But memory, they say, is so unreliable because you remember things differently than how they happen. And it changes in your mind. You could you could literally convince yourself something happened that never happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:58

And you know, uh, I think the piece that at least, you know, to me that also stands out is like throughout the movie, like, you know, Pantuliano's character and everybody else, they're they're constantly influencing and trying to use, trying to use Leonard against his unfortunate disability, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:59:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:20

Um correct. Um, and I think that's a really interesting part of the script that a lot of people don't talk about just because it's it's very real.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:31

Like, you know, Carri Ann Moss is constantly every character does.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:35

Yeah. I mean, you know, Carri Ann Moss is constantly like pitting him against himself to see if he's telling the truth or if he's lying.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:44

And um I that's a really that's a really big piece of the script for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:49

Yeah, Mark Boone Jr. is charging him for at least two rooms, maybe three. You know, how many have I booked into this shithole? What a guy. You know? That's just such a great movie. I remember the first time I watched it watched it just being amazed, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:08

Yeah, no, I I I get you. I feel the same way. Uh and it's it's it's uh it warrants another watch, I think. Pretty soon here. So but I I I like crime movies, and you know that about me. I love crime movies too, so I'm not surprised that it's I knew it was gonna be high on your list.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:26

Um and uh It was actually a bit of a coin flip. It almost was number one. It came really close to being number one. Okay. But for number one Inception, huh?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:38

Inception, man. Big reveal. A near perfect, if not a perfect movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:43

This is another reason why I'm mad at Avatar. For the third episode in a row. For the third episode of the row, we're gonna bring this up. But just don't get angry, okay? I'm not no, no, no. That's my secret. I'm always angry. It was like, I believe it was the year before Avatar came out, if I'm not mistaken. Inception came out.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:09

Inception's 2010.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:10

Is it so it's the year after?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:12

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:13

Okay, so then that's not Avatar's fault. So I won't blame him, so I won't give Avatar shit this week. Avatar could have a week off from my wrath. So my thing was Inception is such a smart, giant blockbuster movie. Oh yeah. And I remember watching it thinking this is the direction we're going in, and then we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:37

And that still hurts my heart. It's hard for me to talk about Inception because there's so much to that movie. I I I honestly just don't know where to start. Well, like the cast, man. Oh, the cast is I mean, where do you start? You know, let's go through. You have Leo, Killian Murphy, Joseph Gordon Levitt, Tom Hardy, Tom Hardy, Elliot Page, Marian Codelard, Ken Watanabe, Michael Cain. I mean, goodness, you know? Tom Berenger.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:11

It's it's a mind heist. Yeah. That's what's so great about it's a mind heist. And the other guys that play solid B roles are uh uh Pete Polstawaite. Oh yeah, he play he plays Killian Murphy's dad. Yeah, and he's good. Yuji Okamoto, who plays uh Saido's attendant. I don't remember him in the movie. I remember um I'm forgetting his name L Lucas. But lukas, I believe that's his name, the kid from Witness.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:41

He plays uh what was his I forget his his name in the movie, but yeah, he he was the guy he was the dreamer in the first sequence in the movie when they were trying to trick Ken Watanabe. Yeah. But you know, it's it's a mind heist, and they they shoot it like a heist movie. You know, getting the team together. You know, she's gonna design the maze, he's gonna act the roles.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:08

You know, they get all the players in place before, you know, it's takes about half the movie to get that going, but that's the fun of it, is getting the team and planning the heist. So much fun. And and then once you get into the heist, it's like a bank heist on crack.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:28

Yeah. And that's without even discussing all the emotional pieces of the film interlay within that. I mean, the script is uh it might be the best script ever written. I don't know. That's uh I'm I'm making a bold statement with that, but you can make an argument for it very easily. There's just so many scenes that, like you said, they're they're riveting because they're a mind heist, but it it it's very much shot like a like a like a like a bank high style, but then you get to these emotionally breakdown scenes that just tear you apart all the while all this other stuff is going on.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:04

Yeah. The the whole bit where he accidentally convinced his wife she was crazy because he implanted the thought in her mind because he was just trying to get her to leave.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:14

He just wanted her out of the dream. So you know amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:19

You know, the scene between uh uh um uh Killian and um and Pete.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:24

Oh yeah, when when when he's dying and he's like, I'm I'm sorry I couldn't be you, and he's like, I'm sorry you tried.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:32

Yeah, man. That was really intense too.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:36

So good. And the the whole bit, you know, where he's basically telling his made-up version of his dead wife, you know, that they did grow old together. And that whole bit where they're walking through the streets like they'd shown it two or three times in the movies already, where they're walking through the streets and it's Leo and Marion, and at the at the end it's actually two old people because they were down there for 50, 60 years. But you know, in the mindscape, so really it was only like a couple days up top. Amazing. Yeah, it's it's such a powerful movie. The set pieces, like I've said before on the show, the whole bit where Joseph Gordon Levitt is fighting that guy in the hotel and it's tilting and moving.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:25

Yeah, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:27

That was incredible, and then that whole James Bond sequence at the end in the snow. Yeah. That movie had everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:37

I agree. Yeah, it really is a masterpiece.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:41

It was a heist movie, it was emotional, like you said, it was a mind-bender, it was a science fiction masterpiece, and everybody had a real part to play. Yeah, and that just goes back to anyone got left behind in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:56

Not at all. That just goes back to how well this script is written, honestly. It's you have to be really intentional when you do that.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:03

Yeah. Man, such a great movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:06

It really, it really is, agreed. Inception is a a great one to to put at number one, and I have no no contention with it being there for you. It deserves it wholeheartedly. Um, but we're at the end, and uh, so let's for the viewers, let's go ahead and uh recap your 12 in order, starting with with number 12, and then I will go ahead and and recap um uh for the audience in case they missed where mine laid in relation to where yours are at.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:37

Alright, so my number 12 was following, 11 was Dunkirk, 10 was Tenet, 9 was Oppenheimer, 8 was the Dark Knight Rises, 7 was Interstellar, 6 was Batman Begins, 5 was Insomnia, 4 was The Dark Knight, 3 was the Prestige, 2 was Memento, and my top Christopher Nolan movie was Inception.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:06

Okay. And mine were 12 was the following as well, 11 was Dark Knight Rises, 10 was Dunkirk, 9 was Tenet, 8 is Batman Begins, 7 is Insomnia, 6 is Oppenheimer, 5 is Inception, 4 is the Prestige, 3 is Memento, 2 is the Dark Knight, and number 1 for me on Nolan's best was Interstellar.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:35

I didn't catch this the first time around. Did you really tell me that Insomnia was not as good as Oppenheimer?

SPEAKER_01 2:07:45

Man. No, uh I guess if you go for the list, yes, that's technically what the list states. But like we said, like uh I feel like for a few reasons, I think I enjoyed Oppenheimer more. I think, like I s like I said, history for me is is I love to see history in movies, and I I was completely enveloped by the story, uh, just because I think it's arguably the most important piece of history. It I mean it changed the world indefinitely, the future of of of our of our race. Um and I I just think there's um the characters I think are little there's there's more characters, I think there's more plot lines. I think Insomnia is very direct and it's focused on three or four characters, it's contained. Um yeah, but right around like six to nine were my difficult ones to list.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:44

That's that's fair, yeah. I mine were six and seven mainly. Yeah. I I really hope that the Odyssey is everything it leads up to be.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:56

Everything I want it to be. Well, I sent you that little tidbit where they're towing the Trojan horse into the city, and that was really cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:05

I have no doubt this movie is gonna look cool. Oppenheimer looked cool. My problem was I didn't think Oppenheimer was a very good movie. I I feel like his last couple movies have not been very good, but they've all looked great. Yeah. So is this movie gonna look great? Without having seen it, I could still say yes, it looks great.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:27

It's gonna be a feat in itself. It's it's gonna be epic. And you know I just want it to be, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:33

I get it. I get it. I want it to be Gladiator. Uh you know, not I obviously don't want it to be like Gladiator, but I want it to be that fucking good.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:43

It'll be interesting to see what Nolan does with fight sequences and and and major major scenes where there's a lot of you know extras and and and and players in them. Uh I'll be interested to see how the story flows and and how he intertwines everything. It's gonna look brilliant. It's gonna sound brilliant. Oh, yeah. You know, the the set designs are gonna be masterful. We all know that. Those are almost guaranteed Academy Award nominations for him. Oh, yeah, for sure. The casting already looks great. Mm-hmm. The casting I'm most interested in to see if it fits the movie is Tom Holland.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:23

Yeah, that's the one I'm kind of leery about as well. I I don't think I'm leery. Zendaya's in the movie too, isn't she?

SPEAKER_01 2:10:30

Yes, I think uh she actually plays she plays Athena. Really? Okay. Yeah. I'm not mad about that. No, I'm not either. It'll be interesting to see, you know, and there's some other, you know, big role players. Uh obviously Charlie Sharon, Mia Goth, Benny Safti, Himesh Patel, John Luguzamo. They're all gonna have, you know, roles. Cosmo Jarvis. Uh I really liked him in Shogun. So I'll be interested to see. I'll be interested to see what he does in the movie. Um, and yeah, I I'm I'm excited. Uh I'm not doubting that the cast will be perfect, you know, uh, but I'm I I'm interested to see what Tom Holland does. I've seen Tom Holland more serious roles and he does a fantastic job. So I think this will be him stretching himself outside of Spider-Man and really either cementing himself as a potential A-list actor outside of the superhero roles, or maybe it won't. Who knows? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:36

We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:38

Um, so this is uh week one of three of our Odyssey coverage.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:44

So typically we do one episode every two weeks. And the next normal episode, which will come out in two weeks, is gonna be another Odyssey special, and we're not gonna go into that. We'll surprise you in two weeks. But if everything Everything goes according to plan. We should have a special one hour episode where we're gonna r review the Odyssey next Friday.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:11

So look forward to that.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:13

Yeah, we're definitely looking forward to it. Because, like we've said, and for different reasons, we've liked and disliked the trailer so far, and I'm sure we are going to see more trailers. I'm disappointed that least one more.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:29

I'm hearing rave about the six-minute prologue that some people have seen. I'm sure you're not gonna you're not gonna find it online, but it was in viewings of prior or after the 70 millimeter re-releases of one battle after another in Sinners.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:45

Uh and so uh I'm a little jealous that I didn't get to see it.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:49

Yeah, I mean that would have been cool, but yes, I I also don't think I would have wanted to see it because I would have I want to wait till the movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:56

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna try to avoid a lot of the the pre-talk and all this different stuff. I I want to experience it in full, just like going into it, you know?

SPEAKER_03 2:13:07

Yeah, no, I get ya. I agree. I I think if if this movie is what I think it is, this is probably gonna be his masterpiece. This it has the potential.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:18

I agree. It has the potential to be his magnum opus a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:23

And I I'm really hoping that it is everything that we want it to be. I agree. And next week, I guess we'll talk about it. Yep, we will. Yeah, I'm really excited for that one. But uh, I'm I'm excited, so next week we will have the review for the Odyssey. That'll be a special extra episode that we're gonna wedge in for all ya.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:45

Yeah, because we typically, if you've been following along with us, we don't necessarily dedicate full episodes to singular movies. We talk about what we've seen and what we've liked and disliked about movies pretty regularly, almost every episode. That's how we start. Um, but uh we feel like this movie warrants uh yeah special attention.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:06

It needs a full analysis and be ready for spoilers also.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:11

Yeah, yeah. It this is one of those things everybody knows about this movie. If you don't see it the first week that it comes out, then or the first weekend it comes out, then too bad for you.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:20

Yeah, because uh honestly, spoilers for a 3,000-year-old story. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:29

You know, what do you want me to tell you? And if you want a little uh tidbit of the story before you go watch the Odyssey, between now and its release, go watch the return.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:40

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna watch the return before I still have a couple months to do that from this recording, but I'm definitely gonna catch that. I've been wanting to see that. Yeah. That looked really cool. Yeah. So yeah, look forward to our spoiler-filled review for the Odyssey next week as a special. And uh anything else you want to add to our Nolan rankings, Mr. Adrian, before we go?

SPEAKER_01 2:15:08

No, I think we did a pretty stellar job with it.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:11

Yeah. Hopefully, we didn't ruin any Nolan movies for you guys, but you know, honestly, you should have seen most of these.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:18

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:20

All right, so uh we are up all night cinema. I'm Wade. This is Adrian. Say goodnight, Adrian. Good night, Adrian. Good night, everyone.