The Real Mike Duley
The Real Mike Duley Show is where real estate and big business collide.
Every week, Mike Duley — entrepreneur, real estate leader, and growth strategist — sits down with industry rockstars, deal-makers, and builders of empires to unpack the playbooks behind starting, scaling, and winning in business.
From creative real estate financing and multimillion-dollar deals to hiring the right talent and building unstoppable teams, Mike delivers unfiltered conversations and actionable strategies to help you grow your business and your life.
Whether you’re a seasoned investor, a team leader, or just getting started, you’ll walk away with insider insights and tactical takeaways to scale with clarity, culture, and confidence.
It’s time to build big. Welcome to The Real Mike Duley Show.
The Real Mike Duley
Ep. 2 - The CrossMod Revolution in Homebuilding with Damon Comerio
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A lot of people talk about “affordable” housing; we want to show the mechanics. We sit down with Damon, a 20-year homebuilder and entrepreneur, to unpack how CrossMod homes, smart financing, and tight operations can beat nine-month build cycles and bring real single-family living to more buyers and renters. Think factory-built precision set on permanent foundations, finished with garages and porches, and financed just like stick-built homes, VA, USDA, and conventional.
We dig into why Northwest Arkansas stands out for growth and jobs, and how a Kansas City operator can enter a new market without guesswork. The playbook blends construction software for transparency, social content to expand reach, and a repeatable field process that compresses timelines to roughly 60 days. For passive investors, that means real projects you can track, faster capital turns, and operators who put clarity first. For residents, it means a garage, a yard, and a quiet night’s sleep, without apartment compromises.
Beyond product, Damon opens the hood on scaling: shifting from a single “leg” builder to a three-legged model that adds development and sales, choosing clients and partners who fit, and building companies that can run without the owner’s constant push. We cover the 1-3-1 decision framework to unlock team autonomy, the mindset required to move past fear, and the networking habits that turned one conference handshake into a cascade of mentors and opportunities.
If you’re curious about CrossMod construction, passive real estate investing, or turning a small shop into a regional operator, this conversation is a field guide. Tap play, then tell us your biggest question about CrossMods, investing, or scaling. If this helped you think differently, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review so we can keep bringing you practical strategies that work.
Meet Damon And Set The Stage
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Real Mike Dooley Podcast. I'm Mike Dooley, nationally recognized broker, bringing you real conversations, real strategies, and real insights into today's real estate market. Hey, hey, we are the real Mike Dooley hanging out with the one and only Damon. What's going on? What's happening? Hey, how are you? We were teasing about this. You know, get how close to the mic, hang loose. I like it. We're hanging loose. But I wanted our audience uh all across the globe, especially in Dubai, hanging out with us. Uh, last episode, someone called in from Dubai, which is fun. But Damon, would you tell the audience uh who you are, a little about yourself? And I know you're a dad that loves Beaver Lake too, right? Yeah. So tell them all the fun things about you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So um, Damon, um, let's see, I've been in home building for 20 years. So I've been actually in business since I was about 14. I'm in my 40s now, and so I kind of jumped into the entrepreneurial stuff when I was real, real young and eager and uh not so tired. That's three kids later, and uh, I'm in Kansas City, and so I spend most of my days in the Kansas City market, and so we're coming down here and meeting Mr. Dooley, the real, the real Mike Dooley here for the podcast in Arkansas. So we're here to have some fun. And I know they're gonna say, hey, are you a Chiefs fan or not? You know. So Yes, and yeah, I mean, I don't follow the Chiefs. I'm gonna double my arms up like that. I don't not like the Chiefs. I just don't like other people. I don't like watch other people do their job. That's how I see it. That's how I see it. So if you're into it, great, but I'd rather do something else.
SPEAKER_01Yep. So yeah. Well, good. Yeah. Well, what what businesses do you have right now? I know you got a lot of things going. So our audience knows with the breath of everything you have going on.
Damon’s Companies And Expansion Plans
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So Camero Homes is our home building company in Kansas City. And so we're branching that out to a new division here in the northwest Arkansas area. Um, and then I've got another company called Home Builder Guides, where um I basically took a bunch of the um ideas, products, and processes that I had from 20 years of home building and put those into um coachable, teachable types of uh programs that we basically sell online to other remodeling companies, general contractors, and home builders, kind of all across the country. And then the the other one is Premieral Capital. So started Premieral Capital. It's brand new. We're still rolling out our website and trying to get all that stuff going up. Um, the purpose behind that is basically to have kind of the wind in the sales for our real estate um movement into the Northwest Arkansas area and in Kansas City to try to um level up where we're at as far as real estate goes. Um, you're only as good as the amount of money you can kind of borrow, you know, when it comes to real estate or the partners that you have. And so we realized that through syndicating and all those types of things that are really the big driver behind larger commercial real estate projects, that this is something we needed to get into. Um, and especially with social media, it's um a lot easier to get your reach out there than it is to, you know, just do it over the golf course or over coffee or something that you can um really get your your product out there, what you're trying to do to a vast wide audience quickly, um, because there's people out there that are looking to do those things or that want to get into projects or get into real estate that may not have the ability for time or education, but have the funds and they want to play ball with something. So we try to marriage those together just for the fact that um we have the the time and we have the expertise of getting into projects that they may not be able to. So we kind of just marriage those two with that company. And so that's the goal of it moving forward to kind of that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01A passive uh position. Yep. I was gonna ask you too, as the audience is all over the world, too. What's some of the websites?
SPEAKER_00So home um builder home builder, yeah. Home builderguides.com is one of them, and then Camario Homes.com is the other. And then Cameroon. You spell that out too. It's kind of like Camaro, right? Yeah, it's uh C O M E R I O. I think you can figure out homes, right? We got Camario Homes, we got Cameroon Homes of Northwest Arkansas, then W A.
Passive Investors And Syndication 101
SPEAKER_01Because if anyone, you know, and as as we talk about too, everything in business, I think it's chemistry and experience. Yeah, life's too short to work with people you don't want to work with, you know. So fair. My kids might listen to the show too. I wanted to say, you know, the word I wanted to say, but still, it's like, you know what? There's too many great people out there, too. It's like, you know, how do you work with them? And I love that you were talking about that that passive position. I might, you know, an off script a little bit too. We, you know, we had this funny how this starts. You got some great questions laid out, but too, I was like, you know what, let's let's hone in there for the listeners. If I'm in a uh I I work at a craft foods or, you know, or you know, uh Pepsi or whatever, Coke, whatever it may be. Uh don't don't hate me. I love a good classic Coke, but still, how would I? So if I wanted to, and I said, you know what, I want to be part of home building, what would what would that look like? What are you kind of thinking? What's the vision there? As far as an investor or as well. As an investor, yep. So I'm in uh Wichita, Kansas, which we talked about before. And it's like, you know what? I hear this northwest Arkansas place is growing and Kansas City's growing. I'd like to have a passive uh income and be part of building a house. Yeah. Uh, you know, maybe they're at a W-2 job. That's kind of how I envision this person might be a W-2 job. They're looking to continue to grow their wealth. I know when I worked at W-2 jobs, it's like, okay, here's your two and a half percent raise, here's your five percent raise. You're not gonna get rich or build wealth or build crazy life and doing that in some ways. Now, still it's a blessing, but this is an opportunity maybe for someone to be able to 30% or 40% increase their wealth opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and and and more than anything, just get you into something that you normally wouldn't do. And so we can kind of position some of this to be private type of investments or private type of projects that just aren't out there. I mean, so clearly you could put your money in Wall Street, you could do that, you could um, you know, get into a REIT or something like that, but you have no control over it. You don't even know where the property's at. And so, um, you know, and in our model, it's gonna be a lot smaller than that, obviously. That, you know, we're able to actually have a project that you can go drive and touch and see, especially if you're in the area, which is important.
SPEAKER_01Now when you now when you're talking, I don't want obviously the husband and wife driving by 97 times saying, Hey, don't you think you should paint this wall? I think it's passive, right?
SPEAKER_00Very, very passive. Like maybe keep driving out of passive.
SPEAKER_01Hey, don't you think there should be a six and a half foot door? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we we get into a lot of that with uh in the custom home building side. And so that's a whole different beast. Um, and some of the stuff that we're gonna be doing as far as developing and multifamily and um build-for-rent type of things or things that they wouldn't have any part in anyway, as far as it's it's more of a um a business model that you come together with and you're just repeating the same process. Um, it's just a different product, maybe in a different market. And so kind of why we've uh earmarked um the Northwest Arkansas market is just because of the amount of growth that we're seeing out here with the jobs. Um Kansas City doesn't have that type of growth statistically that we're seeing down here. Only being three hours away, I was like, you know what, there's got to be something here. So if somebody was you know wanting to get involved in that, um, you know, there's there's gonna be in the future projects for um land developing, and then that would spin off into obviously the um vertical construction of whatever product is on there, whether that be duplexes, townhomes, or um smaller multifamily, or just some single family stuff. And so we've got some things that we're working on as far as cross mods is another product that we're gonna be bringing here, and now we're dumping it on this podcast, right?
SPEAKER_01So, right. First time I heard you say that out, and I was gonna back up to one thing you said. You've been here now like 20, 30 times. Yeah, you're not shaving off the time. Now it's not two hours and 55 minutes or 250 or 240. We need to work on that a little bit. You got to work on your efficiency, you know. From getting here? Yeah. I got here in two and a half hours. Yeah, there you go. I was putting it in. I also gotta figure out a plane or a helicopter or something. That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I actually Googled. I was like, you know, I have a friend who has a plane, and I was like, what does it cost for fuel to get here? It's an hour and a half flight versus a three hour. I did the math and I did it. I was like, you know, I can go right down there and have Mr. Julie pick me up or somebody else for sure. You know, get an Uber, it'd be great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Get here a little quicker. So that cross mod, I was like, what is that? I don't understand that, you know. So the listeners are like, you know, what kind of product is that?
Why Northwest Arkansas Is The Next Bet
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So basically you have your your um your typical modular homes, which are going to be people what they would associate with like a uh a trailer home or a um, oh what do you call them, a uh double wide type of scenario where they get brought out on a trailer and they may get set on blocks and may create into the ground and you know, tornadoes wipe them away and all that kind of stuff, right? So this is a cross of that. It's actually a trademark term that um is used because these are basically the units that we're basically going to be building and selling are um a a uh two-part unit that gets built in a factory off-site. So there's a lot of controls that go into that. You don't have to worry about weather. You don't have to worry about weather and it's all. I mean, you got computers involved and less people and blah, blah, blah, all this kind of stuff, right? Robots, yes. Yes, yeah. And so um, all this stuff is happening off-site. So it gets shipped out there. A foundation is actually put in the ground, just like you would on a stick-built home. And so um, they typically go in crawl spaces because there's steel beams that are underneath and that have to have some space. So we put a foundation in with a crawl space, do all the regular infrastructure, driveway, uh, sewer, water, gas, all that stuff that you'd have in a normal home. The units come out, they get set onto the top of the foundation, they get put together. So we have a crew that puts the ends together, the roofs together, and all the inside. They get bolted to the foundation, and then we actually build whatever garage structure, because these are just a front like shotgun. You see windows, doors on the front, or they're uh wide this way. And so we can build a one car, two car, three car, whatever you want, garage on it. We can add a front porch to it, we can add a back porch to it. And so the cross modular part of it is that it's a cross between stick build and actually modular construction. And so we can kind of marriage those two and do some customized things to make the fronts look different, give it a garage. When typically on a modular home, you don't have any of that. You know, you may have a staircase going up, but there's no garage you got to lean to or car porch or something, or a carport or something like that. And so that's the that's the big benefit. The other benefits about it is that the cost is kind of fixed on some of it versus the fluctuations in lumber pricing and things that we have out here because these companies are buying in bulk that we're buying from on our orders. And so um, the really good thing about it is that the speed. And so, you know, we're trying to compete with some of the national builders around here that, you know, they're ingrained, they have huge companies, big wallets, Wall Street money, um, and they have a machine in place that they can turn things out. Well, that's hard for smaller builders to do as far as all of that, you know, getting the proper labor, getting the pricing that you need and everything to be able to compete. And so this is something that we can come out with a very similar product and actually compete on price and speed because these things can be thrown in the ground and readily available for a homeowner or a tenant in a build-for-rent situation in like 60 days, depending on your weather and all that kind of stuff. And so it doesn't take away. What's a traditional home? Call it 2,500 square feet. Yeah, Kansas City may take you. Nine months. Yeah, it may take you nine months to build something like that.
CrossMod Homes Explained
SPEAKER_01Well, again, they could have four or five turns and something like that with one house. Turn your money a lot faster. It's repeatable, you know, because we're just portability is a problem in our country right now, too. Oh, I was just thinking when you're saying that I don't know what the Guinness World Book record is for garages. How do we do one of these and have a 47-car garage or something, you know? For some of my friends that have those nine, 19 different cars, you know. I'll sell the garage like, yeah, we got what we wanted. Would you like a house with your garage? That's exactly right. Yeah, we can do whatever you want to spend money on of yeah.
SPEAKER_00So a footprint could be like, you know, less than a quarter acre, used by you know, 517, something like that. So a lot of these units are narrower and they're longer, and so they're about 35 to 40 feet wide by 60 some feet deep. Um, that's the majority of the units. And then we have some that are wider, so they're about 40 some feet, um, 40 to 50 feet wide, and then only about 30 some feet deep. And so there's kind of a mix of the two. They're anywhere from three to four bedroom, um, two to three bathrooms. They've got offices in them, they've got granite in them. I mean, they're nice features on the inside. We're not just slapping up junk um just to save money and have something out there. But there does have to be a give and a take. You know, when when we're talking affordability, if we're gonna go, you know, down that path for a second, um, you know, the cost to develop is through the roof, the cost of land is through the roof. Um, a lot of municipalities back in Kansas City don't want to see um housing put together very closely. So they want, you know, minimum lot lines to be larger than they need to be. They want big backyards. That's kind of what's expected. So we've got to be able to stream some of that stuff down. People not everybody wants to mow a yard. Interest rates higher. Yeah, you know, but I mean, so we squeeze out the American dream, you know, because not everybody can afford it. And that that$300,000 house is now$480, you know, and the$480 is now$650. And it's like, you know, people's income is not growing at the rate that the cost of housing is. And, you know, people can look at like the big bad builders just making all this more money. It's like, no, looking at the cameras. No, no, we're not. Yeah, yeah, you know, we're paying it to subcontractors and material costs and land and all the other things, and energy energy codes go up, which means we got to do more to the houses, and it just everybody knows it all just constricts it all, makes the price go up. And so um, you know, being able to offer something that we have more control over and that gets that price down to be in the low threes or the mid threes, depending on where your land is at, or being able to have a development that is purposely built for that where they're they're tighter together. And so, you know, if it was a rental scenario, you know, if you're renting in an apartment complex, right? Um, you know, your amenities are going to be a pool, a clubhouse, whatever, but you don't have a garage. You got somebody above you, you got somebody on both sides of you, typically. Um, you're parking outside in a parking lot. In a scenario like this, you've got a single family home. So the amenity is the single family home. You've got a garage, you've got your own yard, you can do what you want from the outside. No, you've no one knows that it's kidney poles in the backyard. You can get the HOA. Yeah. I mean, nobody knows from looking at it because it just looks like a regular community. And so you could do those as a build-for-rent scenario, or we're going to do that that way and also sell them as single family homes for sale. And so that's our goal to take that into Kansas City. There's already some stuff already happening with those in Kansas City now. And they're, I don't know any of it happening here and at scale in Northwest Arkansas to date. So we're going to bring some of that. The really cool thing about those is that they are able to be financed through all the same mechanisms that stick build homes are by law. And they are there's by law have to be appraised at the same thing that stick build homes have. And so they don't get appraised or have the lack of financing like a modular home would be. It's tough to get insurance and get a loan, et cetera. These are just like we built the entire house from the foundation up to the roof the same way, which is huge because now you can have somebody that needs a VA loan or a USDA loan or whatever. Maybe you got two acres and you don't need a big mansion, but you got the land given to you and you wanted to save some money, you can bring one of these things out there for a couple hundred thousand dollars and get a really nice house and get it financed just like it was a regular stick-built house. That's awesome. So that's huge. I mean, that's kind of a game changer in that whole market. Um so I want to jump ahead of it. We're not the first, and we're, you know, it's not a new thing, but I want to put some real steam behind this and see what we can do and bring some of those investors to get back to your original question into that so that we can um provide an opportunity for all parties, you know, is the goal.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, if our listeners are in Kansas City or northwest Arkansas and they have land, how much land do we need? Do we need five acres, ten acres? It's dependent. I mean, we're grateful for anything. Yeah. What would be an ideal, you know, run, if you will, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Probably um 15 to 40 acres, maybe. Um, I mean, obviously, if you're gonna get over that, you're gonna be doing multiple phases, which is fine, and it depends on obviously the price you buy it at and where it's at, et cetera. Um, we'd love our listeners to gift it to us, you know.
Speed, Cost, And Affordability Advantages
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. We're asking, hey, we're taking land right now as gifts, you know. Thinking about, you know, Christmas, the holidays coming, whatever it is. Like, hey, think about us. You know, it's a tax drive for them, too, you know, so it's a one for all of us. It's exactly right. We're just here to help. I was gonna go through one of my questions, and I love to me that's that's forward thinking, that's technology. I was gonna ask you in the home building, what kind of technology things are you looking at too? And I love that. There's actually a builder here, a super regional that's doing a great job, and they're doing actually the framing off-site and they're delivering and it's ready to go. Yeah. What other things are you seeing that you're looking at in your business? Are you seeing in the construction space from technology?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, doing this, I mean, we're sitting here in a podcast, right, in a really nice podcast room doing a podcast about construction real estate. And that's that in itself, you know, is something that I would say 99.9 billion percent of builders are never gonna do um or put themselves out there in social media. And so we're we're really leaning in heavy on the social media aspect. Um part of the reason why um, you know, as a smaller builder, being able to go into other markets, um, we're gonna utilize um basically our construction software so that we can manage stuff um remote because it's all online. I mean you have tablets and builders just use line paper and just root. We did. Yeah. Big cheap tablet, you know, just fill it in and you know, press down and hand off the other inbox. You got your black marker, cross them off, and your red pin. Yeah, I mean, I still do some of that, you know, the archaic way, but we also have it in software so that we can literally load up pictures of a job site as it's being happening as it's happening. We can involve investors or and our um homeowners involved in those um scenarios to where they can see the pictures, they can load stuff in there. I mean, the software is out there. Um, I'm not gonna you know throw any companies' names out there, but um we've been using a software. Oh, we need sponsors for you. You know, so Builder Trend, there you go. We're using Builder Trend.
SPEAKER_01Hey, hey, we need some sponsors for Mike Billy. But I was thinking when you're talking about the passive investor, if they're in Michigan and they're looking to be part of something, that'd be trend where they can look at it right online. 100%. How's it progress? How are we doing? Oh, so that's a win for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so that's part of the thing that that that um I've really tried to lean in on with our home building stuff is transparency and just being upfront about stuff. And to be honest, it's probably cost me some jobs because um in Kansas City we have a lot of site costs, and so we have rock, we have soil issues, all these types of things. And so there's a big conversation we have to have with build job clients that were, you know, they're coming to us to build their custom home or whatever that we don't know what's under the earth, right? And so um, you know, here in Northwest, Arkansas, we're doing mostly slabs, and so it's not as a big of a deal, but you know, we may have 30, 40, 50, 60, 70,000 in site costs on a house because we had to remove all the soil and pier it 30 feet deep or whatever it was and fill all that with concrete. I mean, it gets expensive quick. And so we have to have these really hard conversations with people up front. And so I've always made it a point in our paperwork and our sales process to be very upfront about all that. And I'm like, I'm laying the cards on the table. Here's what it could happen. Here's the good, here's the bad. We're not unique. This is not unique to Kansas City or to our home building company or the floor plan or the whatever, the neighborhood. It's just the way it is. Now, whether the builder you're talking to or me, whether we tell you, you know, we're telling you the same thing or not, he's probably gonna sugarcoat over that and just hit you with a big change order. It's written right there in the contract that you didn't read, which is what typically happens. And then they get this big surprise. So I'm up front about it. And so we have this whole thing where we talk about all the good, bad, the ugly. And my point behind that is that I I don't want to have unhappy customers or investors or anything that feel like that there's there's something that they didn't weren't aware of. And so if we're taking it from the homeowner standpoint, um, we can be transparent and say this is what could or couldn't happen. Um, but we talk about it up front so that there's no surprise. And so I don't want people that are unhappy working with us, right? That doesn't make for a good relationship because we're married to you know, people for quite a long time building the house. You know, it's gonna take us a year to build it, a year in warranty. I don't want them upset because they got the wool pulled over their eyes, which happens a lot because we hear it and we sit down with people.
SPEAKER_01That you don't see. Yeah. I think that's another piece. It's not like it's like, oh, look at this marble island. Yeah, that's not the sexy lipstick. Yes, under the glass. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, nobody comes.
SPEAKER_00Over and says, Hey, you want to come over and see the peers we did?
Financing, Appraisals, And VA/USDA Access
SPEAKER_01It's fantastic. Watch this video. We should actually start doing that, though. You should take a picture and make it art in your house, too. You know, it's like it had a little tag seventy thousand dollars. All the value is underneath the basement. Hey, we might have something here, you know. You might think about it, you'll see me win. So I'm gonna change a little bit too. If we have some younger listeners, okay. You know, I had the privilege of teaching principles of real estate at the University of Arkansas for four years, which is a lot of fun. So hopefully some of my students are still paying attention to my content and they're entrepreneurs. Something that you said that I love is that you're already forward-pacing and thinking about the capital piece. How do you grow? I see a lot of entrepreneurs now, they might be in the same grind. So, for example, I know you were in the landscaping business before. Yeah. And you might say, okay, I can't afford another lawnmower. But maybe if you might have gone ahead and bought five more, then you hired on three more people and had them as a cost of sale, you might be able to 10x your business. That's a hard thing for an entrepreneur to do because they're going, oh, wait, I'm not making enough money with my one lawnmower. I can't buy another one. So scaling, you talked about big home builders, they can scale a lot faster. Right. So if young listeners and young people, what I'm hearing you is you forward pace. You're going, okay, I'm going to where the puck's going, right? I'm not, I'm not hitting the puck, you know, and then it passed by. Great analogy, right? Yeah. Exactly. So I guess for the young listeners, just say, hey, how are you thinking about those things? Is that other podcasts you're listening to? You're reading books. One of the things that I do, I have one of the coaches, Jordan Freed. He's amazing. He's awesome. He's got a 10-year letter. So you actually write it to yourself and say, okay, 10 years out, where am I going? And you work backwards. So people, whenever I say that, they're like, how do I do that? And I'll give you a quick example. Cody loves, when you know my bride, you know, and I traded up. She's awesome. She loves her toes in the sand. She loves the beach. Now, I don't know how many weeks or how often we're going to be there, but I know that's in a 10-year letter. So 10 years from now, I better provide that beach opportunity for my wife, right? That's what she wants to do, and I like doing maybe it's four or five weeks out of the year. Well, you have to work to that. So I got my Florida real estate license. Well, that's one thing I could do today that's pretty easy, pretty inexpensive to work to my 10-year goal. So I think young people, we're not thinking about that. We're thinking about the now. Right. You know, so is there something that you're doing as far as reading articles or podcasts when you're thinking about you're saying, you know what? Most builders would go, I'm going to keep beating my head against the wall. Kansas City is a great place, but you go, oh, it's not working. My margins are shrinking, whatever it is. But no, you said, you know what? Let me look at other cities and other places. You're expanding. Well, you don't have anything from a revenue standpoint in Northwest Arkansas, but your business development, right? Yeah. And I unpacked a lot for you. I threw a lot at you, but still, you know, you're jiving and feeling me. If you're watching, if you're just listening to us, we're nodding and smiling and high-fiving. So, but yeah, if you look about that, the young entrepreneurs, or you know what? I'm seeing a lot of people that had a career now are becoming entrepreneurs. Maybe there was something else. Another good friend of mine that he's in a similar space, he was in wealth advising and banking and all that stuff. And then he got into building, so he's able to use his strength in that way. Yeah.
Tech, Transparency, And Builder Software
SPEAKER_00I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. Yes. Yeah. So pick your favorite cards. So you could you could look at it from an entrepreneurial standpoint of like maybe you're in your W-2 and you wanted to get into something. You know, how do you do that? And then if you're into something, like how do you grow it and scale? Um, I've not done the W-2 thing. I literally got out of, was in high school and started push mowing. There's a whole that's for a whole nother two-hour thing. Started push mowing a yard for a neighbor across the street that I grew into a business that I sold in 2005. And so I did all of that all the way through high school and didn't really go to college for I went to night school for a little bit. Um but already had all that established. And I had to learn every stinking lesson the hard way. Like I don't know what it is with me, but I had to. I had to learn how banks work and how loans work and how customers work and how do you how employees and um we had, you know, um we had everything under the sun you could imagine that I've had to go through. Um DOT with your trucks, like all this stuff. I mean, I there's no school for all of that. I mean, in at least I didn't know there was. Maybe there is, I don't know. But I didn't go to it. And so I had to learn it all the hard way. And so those lessons, um those lessons kind of helped me grow into who I am now because they were the they're the grit and they're the scars and they're the gray hair and my beard and lack of whatever else, you know, that that I'm um that I'm living right now because of what I went through to get to that point. So if you're looking at it from a um scale standpoint, um, there is so much free content out there, it's unreal. I mean, you you can't go anywhere without seeing people with their phones in their hand, right? I mean, like I drive past a high school that I went to every day. I leave the house and go to the office, and I drive past the same high school that I went to, and um, you know, obviously a whole new batch of kids, and they're like zombies. I mean, they're just literally walking down the sidewalk and no buttons. They're just they're just staring at their phones. And I mean, like, to this early age, I mean, I have eight-year-olds and they're like talking about how they want to get an Instagram, and I'm like, how do you even know what Instagram is? You don't even have a phone. Well, they see everybody else around it, right? So no one can be without a phone. So there's so much at your fingertips. I mean, reading your phone is the new newspaper, it's the new magazine. And so instead of playing some, I don't play games on my phone, but instead of playing some dumb game, I guess, you could listen to a podcast or you could educate yourself on something. I mean, there's there's certain people that talk about how you spend a hundred hours on something, you'll become an expert at it. That's hard to do. Jesse Itzler, yep, it's hard to do. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's a real I'm gonna sorry, in there. 18 minutes a day, he says you could be the top 1%, whatever that thing is. Really? I love that about Jesse Etzler.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Huh. That's tough. Yeah. I mean, when you would because it's not just about spending the time, it's about having the mental capacity to focus on it. And so um there's so many distractions, so much noise, especially if you run your own business, because you've got, and we just talked a minute ago about how we had, you know, text message and email, and it's like you're inundated with everything, and not to mention employees and customers, and just and all the things that are in your mind that could be and that you need to be to get to that letter that you wrote yourself for 10 years and and the growth that you want to have. Um and so um, there's so much out there that's free that you could use to utilize to learn how to scale, to see what other people have done. At the end of the day, it's a leap of faith, and you're just gonna have to stick your neck out there and do some of it. But there's a lot, you know, there's a lot to learn from that. And it doesn't all have to be bad. And so, and I I've been that way myself. I mean, there's things in my life that I've been scared to do or that I didn't want to, I wanted to do. I knew I could do it, but I've been my only problem. Like I'm my own roadblock, and I'm learning that at my age now, and it's it's become eye-opening, and I'm like, man, I wish I'd have done that 20 years ago. Life would be a lot different right now. But I didn't take the advice, I didn't do it, I was too scared, I didn't jump, I didn't scale, I stayed small too long. Um, that is a big problem that I had was was not thinking big enough. And so um in Kansas City, you know, there's as far as home building goes, I've been doing that 20 years there. So I was just explaining this to somebody on the way up here that, you know, you've got three legs of the stool basically in Kansas City. In most markets, you've got the home building side, the developing side, and the sales side. Well, there's only a few companies that have all three legs of the stool in Kansas City. I'm just a home builder in Kansas City, right? So we're getting into developing, and then that parlays into on the sales side of being able to hire your own salespeople. And so basically, if you can't see that there's a the ceiling, you're gonna have to either be okay with just staying at that ceiling, or you're gonna have to figure out how to scale and get out of that. Well, that's a big jump. That's a huge jump from going from building some houses, you know, maybe it's you know, two or three or twenty or forty or fifty to where now I've got to buy a two, three million dollar piece of property, put six or seven million into it, you know, be stroking a$300,000 nut each month just to hang on to the thing and then come up with another$20 million to build some houses in it, you know, at the ripe old age of 35, you know, or whatever it is. I mean, most older developers are gonna laugh at you. The banks are gonna laugh at you. So that's where the private money kind of comes in and says, I mean, I know 24-year-old developers who are, you know, doing$30 million projects, you know, because they're smart, they have a following, they have people that that support them, that back them. And that's how they were able to scale and grow into it. They just said it, they don't overthink it. I think that's our problem.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm thinking it and thinking it and you're no paying 24. They're like, I'm ready to go.
SPEAKER_00They don't know. Yeah, yeah. They don't know what they don't know. And I wish I'd been there. I mean, I did that with my lawn care company, but it, you know, ignorance is bliss, right? So I mean, I how big did you get the lawn care company, just so our audience would know? Yeah, I had about 15 employees. Um, we were doing like 180 contracts. So we did um in Kansas City, we did um majority of the Walgreens, we did a bunch of Costco's, did a bunch of apartment complexes. So it kind of started out where we were just doing um a couple of residential houses that did more residential, then I shifted into more commercial because we could get snow removal out of that, irrigation services. Um, you know, when times get tough, the first thing to go is the lawn care guy. Right. You know, like you can decide to go fire up the old mower and go mow the yard, not prune your shrubs, don't fertilize, nobody's gonna mulch. But Costco can't do that. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_01So I started thinking about something else you said in business, and I learned this from a mentor one time. The biggest businesses in the world are membership. Yeah. Let that set in for our listeners. So Apple, Walmart, Amazon, you go through a list, those are membership based. What I just heard you say in your landscaping, your commercial, membership based. Costco guy that was probably paying you from Seattle didn't go, hey, I'm not gonna make your, you know, it's like every seventh of the month, he paid you, you know? So you were membership. And then that's that was also sellable. The residential landscaping maybe isn't sellable like it would be for your commercial business because you're like, hey, I have 190 contracts. Here you go, boom.
SPEAKER_00But I was all that I sold. I sold the equipment and I sold the contract list. And I hope that they stuck around because there were contingencies in there. And I had employees that stayed, they got bonuses if they stayed for a certain period of time. I mean, it wasn't a fly-by-night thing. I mean, it was a legit, you know, decent company in Kansas City for a long time. It's still in business now. I don't think it's what it was because I'm not in charge of it anymore. But um the founder problem, right?
SPEAKER_01Good, good or bad, you know? Yeah, I was also gonna, I do not mow my yard and do anything, but the back of my yard, I have this brush and I don't know what it is, but weed eaters, you know how you're supposed to like tap on the ground a string. If you could come over later and show me how to do that, I don't know what it is. You watch many YouTube, I'm like, can't can't somebody design an easier system than try to tap on the company.
SPEAKER_00They can call a lung care company.
SPEAKER_01How many people do you know in the world? You drive by people and you see someone with the weed eater upside down and they have the top off and it's twisted and they're messing with it. Somebody has to invent something, you know. Tell you how many times I've done that.
Grit, Scaling, And Learning From Free Content
SPEAKER_00Just miles of weed eater screen have gone through my hands. That's it's ridiculous. Yeah, I like loath mowing the yard now.
SPEAKER_01I think we should design and vent a robot. And what he did, you know what I'm saying? He just had it, it was like part of his extension, and he just weed eated, you know, and you're just like, all right, you're programmed to go seven feet that way, nine feet that way. It's kind of like the room bug, you know. I think they've got the for for me. I know they have for Melan, but not weed eating. Maybe we're onto something, you know, some next business idea. Exactly. Cody's gonna be like, oh no, no more podcasts for you. Right. So Cody and I have been talking about this a lot. As we've been doing 2026 planning, her and I both started working when we were 15, basically. And we see the differences in employees and people we work with and people we interact with and vendor partners. Sometimes whether they had, you talked about grit and hustle. Well, her and I have been doing it since we were 15. You know, it's like one of the things that I wish differently. We actually talked about this in our Bible study last week on Thursday, is that I didn't necessarily super bless, I love my parents, it was great, but I didn't necessarily have the college career where I was going to every football game, every basketball game, and all that stuff. And one thing I've said for my daughters is that I want them to have the college experience and not work and go to every game and be in the sorority and all that stuff. But then on the other hand, Cody and I are talking about it. Look at where we've come today, as far as by no means are we where we want to be. You know, we can continue. We don't have any ceiling, we feel like. But the grit and the hustle that we learned from the 15 to get the money, maybe to get your cell phone, to get your beeper, just so you know for the kids listening, they used to text us this thing. Bag phone. Yeah, probably, you know, some of my audience is gonna be like, they're gonna be smiling, yes, the beeper. You know, like they had that was our emojis back in the day. Do you remember?
SPEAKER_00I I got kicked out of school for having a beeper. Like that was part that's a funny story that when I had my lawn care company, I had a I had a business phone in my bedroom at my parents' house because I'm young still living at home, and I had a beeper. And I had a bag phone that I paid, you know, a thousand dollars a minute or whatever it was at the dumb time, you know, to have that in my truck. And so I would get a beep at school from somebody leaving a message on my work phone and it would beep to my beeper, and then I'd walk out of class and I'd go to the payphone in the hallway. We had payphones in the school then too, and make a call. But then the teacher started complaining because I had a beeper and I wasn't supposed to have a beeper. So I went to the principal's office. So they realized that I wasn't selling drugs or doing something stupid. And I would sneak out and go to my truck. That's a different kind of grass, right? Right. Yeah, 100%. And I'd go sneak outside, I'd go past the security guard, get to my truck, and I'd lay down and I'd be calling the customer back, you know, telling them that I'd come mow their yard or whatever, like on the lunch break. Well, so the the principal finally realized that um I wasn't a bad kid, that I wasn't, this wasn't a nefarious thing. This was, I'm trying to be an entrepreneur or entrepreneur and do the right thing. So basically what I did was I cut a deal with her. I mowed her a yard for free if she'd leave me alone. True story. So literally I remember her looking out the window and like waving at me, and I'm mowing the yard for her for free. And I'm like, look, I'm gonna take these, you're gonna keep giving me school suspension. You can keep kicking me out, but I'm gonna keep answering my pager. I'm not, you can't take it. I'm gonna keep sneaking out, making the phone calls because this is what I want to do. Now everybody and their brother has a phone, you know, and I mean it's just the way it is. And so that's solution-oriented.
SPEAKER_01Think about entrepreneur, you know what I'm saying? Most people are just to hit a roadblock. Yeah. So when I take it, I'm out. How is this? You know? Also, here's the other thing is you take the customers you want or or the ones you don't want. Yeah. So that's some of our listeners too. If I had to do things differently, I feel like I had to take every customer in real estate or whatever business I have. You don't. Actually, the ones that you fire or you don't take are the best finds. Yeah. I had one that I was like, oh, this is got to be miserable. And I'm glad that I had a foresight to go, you're an awesome person or whatever. It's just not a win-win-win for me right now.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes the best deals you make are the ones you don't. For sure. I mean, there's there's a lot to be learned in that. That took a long time to learn because you feel like that, you know, if you're if you have faith and all that, you feel like that it's here for a reason or that you're desperate or you're whatever. And so things, you're looking at it from a different lens. And sometimes you got to take a step back and be like, wait a minute, is this what God has for me? Is this what is in my path? Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? Is this what I want to be doing? Or is it just something that I see that I need to have? Well, all the noise going on today, I can see how you can easily get distracted with that and not be able to focus on things. But to your point, yeah. I mean, we've fired customers and gotten rid of them and they're just not great to work with. And I don't want to go to work every day and have somebody screaming at my team, you know, that they're unhappy. It's like, here's your money back. We'll do something else. We're not a good fit for you. And that's okay. You know, you're still going to say what you want to say online, but it is what it is, you know. Um there's there's some maturity in that being able to do it, you know. So if our audience is listening to it, yeah, how do they find you on social or all the handles? Yeah, you can find everything we got basically. Um, all of our companies have social handles under the company name. And then I've got Damoncamario.com. You can find me on there. Um, so we've got a bunch of information on there. That's D-A-M-O-N- Um-C-O-M-E-R-I-O.com. So you can you can look us up in there. We've got a brand new website we just rolled out with that. So yeah, we're all over the place. You should find us.
From Lawn Care To Development: Scaling Lessons
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you had all the money in the world, you're talking about cross mods is good. Have you thought about other things? You think about kind of your five years out. So building neighborhoods is something you're looking at, you know, kind of being a what I call like a super regional, you know. Obviously, you're not one of the large guys call it where it's just like they're really becoming to me more. I tell some of our younger people they're banks. They're obviously, you know, you can get their loan right there, you can do title, you can do all that stuff. And I congratulations to them. That's a great model, you know. But I think there is this window for someone that's maybe looking for a little bit more customization, you know, not to your point where it's like all customization, you know, but call it a super region. Right, you know, what would be kind of your ideal spot where it's like, you know what, I want to be building 50 to 100. Have you kind of thought through that? What's your vision uh for a year? Yeah, for here or for case. All of it. Yeah. We're going to Dubai. We're building all of it. We're going to Miami. We're going to Florida.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's do it. Thank you. Um yeah, absolutely. Um, that's we talked about that earlier with the glass ceiling, you know, that um I don't feel like I have one either. I think my mind is my only glass ceiling. And so um, you know, a lot of real estate projects obviously are going to need financing for that. And so um, if that's a roadblock, figure that out. If it's land, figure that out. If it's whatever. Um, so I don't think of it as a as a how many homes. I'm looking at it more of um net profit or just a lot of people. No, I'm looking at it, I'm looking at it more like I thought of it the other day. I'm like, you know what? My what is my job? Like I'm sitting here, I got all these companies and I do these things and I'm busy all the time. And some days you feel like you get nothing done, even though you just put in 10 hours, right? And I didn't see my kids and I came in early, worked late on a Saturday, whatever. Somebody like job. Do this, it's just endless, right? Yep. And so it's like, what is my job? And so I came, I was like, my job is to make this company, like what I want, my job is to make this company run without me, like whatever that company is. And we talked about that with some of the stuff that you're involved with. That I don't want to have to be the linchpin, the pusher, the doer, the coach, the whatever. I mean, that's great to be some of those things, but there's a point where I got to step out. And so my goal is to make those run themselves, do their own thing, and then make that repeatable so that I can scale and get to where I want to be and do that in any other market. Because if you look at all these national builders or developers, whatever they are, you know, they don't have a guy that's going and doing it, you know, like the builder. They're just a big company. They have thousands of employees. And so they just go to another division. They're like, great, go buy a bunch of land or buy a builder out like happened here and happens all over, happened in Kansas City, happens all over the place. And they just come into the market like that. Well, I'm not there yet. So I got to build a smaller scale. But this is how they started, you know. I mean, 50 years ago, 75 years ago, that's where they were at. They just got to it quicker. You know, they had more money faster, and they were in the right markets that were able to gobble up market share and make the sales. And that's what we're looking at because I am not a just because we used to do it this way, let's do it this way. I'm like, if that's how you're telling me we're doing it, I'm definitely not doing it that way. I am going left field, you know, jumping off the cliff, whatever it is, just because that's in my nature, good or bad. And so if somebody's saying, you know, we do it this way because that's how we've always done it, I'm trying to figure something else out. And that's been kind of a good thing to um motivate me to say, cool, I can stay where I'm at in KC with the same relationships, the same focus, the same income, the same whatever, and I feel like this is all it's gonna be. Or I can figure out how to grow, how to scale, where else I could go. Am I willing to invest time in this, take more risk? And what does that look like? So if my job is to figure those out and to make those to where they can run themselves, then it's infinite. Like I can go do that in Dubai. I don't want to build houses in Dubai, but you know, whatever. You know, but I know people from Kansas City that have, yeah, you know, legit, like they invested in houses. Concord, we can take the Concord there. Very good. Right, absolutely. You know, so I mean, you can really do whatever you put your mind to. And um, honestly, and um I don't know, did I answer your question? I think you did, you know.
Choose Clients Wisely And Protect Culture
SPEAKER_01You made me think of something too, which is a great leadership lesson. I love that you said this is how we always have done it. I some attempt sometimes to slow down to explain to a team member, a colleague, or an employee, let me tell you. You why I'm doing this because it's kind of funny. A lot of times we only see 20% of what's really happening. I attempt to tell our people all these other 80% is connected to this one decision that I'm making right now, which Colin Powell says if you have 70% of the information or more, you act. If you have 30 or less, you do nothing. That's people always want to make a decision. And I really think about that from a characteristic, but I have no information. I don't need to make a decision yet because it might be the wrong decision. I already make enough wrong decisions. Let me make a better decision. Right. So I think that's something to think about. What level you said to ask them better questions. So if young people are listening today or think people thinking about getting entrepreneurship, ask a few more questions. And I actually don't mind it. Now, what I do mind if you ask me the same question 17 times. Same. And maybe you didn't do a little bit of work to like YouTube it or listen to someone podcasts and educate yourself, you might say, Hey, Mike, I heard you on a podcast and you said this. I had another idea or tell me a little bit further. I would love that. And I would geek out over that. Yeah. So I think sometimes too, also, whenever I interviewed someone last week and I said, Hey, when you join our company, I don't, I don't know it all. I'm not the expert. We're bringing in great people like you to have a different, fresh perspective and a different perspective so we can actually grow and we can actually have this diversity that actually maybe changes our business differently. Maybe a new stream of revenue we didn't even think about. Right. Because I might have been focused in a certain area.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um what I love about that is um what I would say is understand the process for like, well, I guess this is taking it to the next level, is that um I love when people ask questions. I don't mind being challenged to a point, I guess. Um that's I think that comes to be a business owner's nature. I mean, you feel like you know it all, but you know you don't. Like I'm the first to tell you I don't know it all. I want to hire up. I want to hire people that that know more than I do. Um, and that's easy to find in lots of places. For sure. Um, you know, and that's kind of the way it needs to be, right? Um I don't I'm gonna get our thing if you're the smartest bookshelf in the world, right? You do know it any good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so um I like to have people ask questions, but I want to I want to have them take initiative and I want them to try to figure it out on their own. There was a there was a book, um, Buy Back Your Time. Um, yeah. And I read that book and it was just amazing. Like I thought it was great, just the the email structure, because I'm drowning an email and get somebody else to do all that. And in the the decision process of it was a um a one one three one or something like this, where um basically if you have the problem, so people aren't just jumping things on your lap, right? Because you would you'd be dead, right? You'd have to be you know head underwater if all the people you worked with just constantly brought everything to you and there was no free thinking, or they didn't feel like they could make decisions or get things done, or they didn't know where to go. So it's like bring the problem, tell me your best three solutions, and let me decide if it's a decision I need to make. Don't bring me the problem and walk away and then make me figure the problem out and tell you what to do. That's not that doesn't work. Yeah, I don't need you. I'd just much rather have your salary, you know, and get rid of you because now you become a liability because I can't trust you, you don't're not gonna take initiative, you know. I I I don't think that you're gonna you're gonna make it, right? So I think he says in there too, out of the three, tell me the one that you pick. Correct. Yeah, and then let me decide if it's a decision I need to do, right? Yeah, or give them the latitude that they can make those decisions themselves to say just be happy to do what you think is best.
SPEAKER_01If certain employees had up to$500, they could spend whatever they want. There's like directors up to$5,000, they didn't have to ask them. Yep. And that's another thing I love. Sometimes I'd rather you just do it, then we can correct it later.
SPEAKER_00Those are things to scale for sure because they can remove you from it because sometimes the biggest roadblock is you. And over the past couple of years, I've figured out that I'm the biggest roadblock in my business, um, which has allowed me to do these other businesses and to actually be down here and spend the day doing things I'm doing down here and talking with you because I can have other people doing things while I'm gone that I've removed myself from, getting back to the I need to be able to have a business that works without me. I mean, you're never gonna grow if you're the guy, you know, or you're the gal that has to be there to do everything. I mean, that that's an ego thing. That's a I want nothing to do with it. I'm not a golf guy, you know, but um I would love to drive around, drink a beer, and smoke a cigar, you know, and watch people play golf or whatever. I would be doing something else, but you see the people that get to spend all day on the golf course and their business is just printing money for them. Well, there's a lot to be said for that. That's exciting. That's sexy, you know what I mean? Like that's cool. Um not for the clamor, but just for the fact that that's the end result. I don't want to have a company so that I have a job. You know what I mean? I would just come work for you. I'd come work for somebody else, get my W 2 if I just needed a job. I want something that I can hand down to my kids that they can run, um, or you know, whatever else I want to do, or charity or whatever it is, whatever you know strikes me at that point in time.
SPEAKER_01Um in the next two to three years, speaking of people are listening from the show from Northwest Arkansas. What jobs are you looking for? Just maybe think about it. Let me help you and help us. So there's certain roles that you're thinking about, they should reach out to you.
Decision Frameworks And Empowered Teams
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're gonna be looking for project managers for sure. Um, you know, those are we've been looking for those in Kansas City. Those are hard to find these days. Um, good ones anyway. We've hired a lot of guys that um that need a lot of help, you know, and there's some old guard that doesn't don't want to get down with technology we talked about earlier using software and these types of things. And so we're very software focused and and we're moving that direction. So um we'll be looking for project managers, we'll be looking for subcontractors across the board. Um, we've got some good relationships we're working with that. I mean, really, it's you know, this whole thing was started out supposed to be relationship based. And it's all about that. I mean, so literally for the past, you know, year and a half, I've been down here just making relationships. That's it. That's literally how I came across, you know, meeting you and we came together through a mutual friend. And um, and then a year later, you know, after a first phone call, um, you know, talking a year later, now here a year and a half later, now here we are, but it just came about just cultivating that stuff, putting yourself out there. Um, and you know, that's something that I had to really focus on was putting myself out there to build relationships to do that, because you can't hide behind your phone all day. No, you're never gonna grow your business if you're sitting in your basement. I mean, you just got to get out there. And it took a mind shift for me to say, okay, I'm not happy where I'm at. I got to go out there and make waves, whatever that looks like. You know, if that's get a haircut, trim your beard, wear a sport coat, go to a deal, whatever the thing, you know what I mean? Go to a podcast, go get uncomfortable, go do whatever, you know, like do whatever. Like it sucks. Some of it sucks, but there's a lot of good things that come from it. It takes a lot of time and energy. But I can tell you a point in time where I decided to do that, to going to one meeting that put me on a trajectory for meeting people, that there's a whole nother story behind all that, where I went to Las Vegas to go to the international builder show and I made a decision. I was going by myself and I said, I am gonna go meet everybody I can meet. I'm gonna talk to everybody I can talk to, and I'm gonna make myself known out there. Not in a bad way, but just I'm just I'm gonna be outgoing, right? And I did that, and I met a person who was connected to Kansas City who was best friends with my neighbor across the street who I built a house for. Like that's the whole genesis of the story. It's insane. We're really good friends uh today. He was very well connected in the home building space, opened up a whole bunch of people that I could talk to and lean on as mentors, as um uh folks that are just, you know, they're the best in their in their space. Um, and that all came from just being able to put yourself out there and network and build those relationships with people that have parlayed into all kinds of other stuff and ideas and and those types of things. So that's a big key to scaling is just being able to put those terms, connect those dots and make sure that you foster that in a good way.
SPEAKER_01Who you're in business with, who you're in contact with, your relationships. Yep. As we wrap up, working people if they're like, hey, I'm jamming, I'm loving everything he's saying. I want to work for them, I want to connect with them.
SPEAKER_00Where can they find you again? Yeah, DamonCamario.com. Just go there. We've got all of our um my emails on there, phone numbers on there, our websites are all on there. So go check that out.
SPEAKER_01This podcast was a lot of fun. Thank you. Great episode. I want to thank our sponsor, uh, Mutual Omaha Mortgage. Thank you so much for your sponsorship and loving the real Mike Dooley. This is a lot of fun. If you like this content, subscribe, like, share. Yeah, we truly appreciate it. That was a lot of fun. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Yep. Thanks for listening to the Real Mike Dooley podcast. Subscribe, share, stay real. I'm Mike Dooley. Until next time.