How much does it actually cost to invest in turnkey real estate?

In this follow-up episode of Real Estate Connections, host Mary Foerster welcomes back Tim Robinson and Danny Cole to break down the real numbers behind turnkey rental property investing.

In their previous conversation, they explained what turnkey investing is and how it works. In this episode, they take the next step by walking through the financial details. From purchase price and down payments to cash flow and cap rates, they show how investors evaluate whether a property makes sense.

Danny shares a real example of a Birmingham, Alabama property priced at around $172,000 and explains what an investor would realistically need to get started. Tim adds insights from his own experience as an investor, highlighting how proper planning, education, and realistic expectations are essential to long-term success.

Whether you're new to real estate investing or exploring passive income opportunities, this conversation offers a practical look at the numbers and the strategy behind turnkey investments.

In This Episode You’ll Learn

• What turnkey real estate investing actually means
• Why turnkey properties can simplify the investment process
• How much cash investors typically need to purchase a rental property
• What cap rate and cash-on-cash return really mean
• Why setting aside funds for maintenance and vacancies is essential
• How financing options like DSCR loans can help investors grow their portfolio
• Why long-term investing strategies often outperform short-term thinking

Tim Robinson is a seasoned real estate investor with a residential portfolio across four states, a full time realtor in the DMV area, and co founder of The REI Concierge. He specializes in working with analytical investors who want disciplined, long term wealth strategies.

Danny Cole has over 17 years of real estate experience and serves as a Senior Investment Consultant with Spartan Invest. He earned his BBA in Real Estate and Marketing from the University of West Georgia and believes in transparency and education above all else. He lives in Carrollton, Georgia with his wife and three children.

Connect with Tim:
http://www.statesideresidential.com
https://thereiconcierge.com/

Connect with Danny:
https://spartaninvest.com
https://go.spartaninvest.com/cole

Connect With The Real Estate Connections Podcast

If you’re looking to connect with experienced real estate professionals in your area, reach out to the team at:

info@realestateconnectionspodcast.com

This episode is intended for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial or investment advice.

Transcript

0:00

And welcome to Episode 2 of Turnkey Investments. Who would have thought that we would have had two episodes on something that sounds so pretty obscure, Turnkey Investments. So please listen to our first episode in which we discuss kind of how Turnkey works and what they are and what the risks are and how they operate. But when we ended that episode, we didn't have any numbers. We couldn't tell you that you could get into a certain investment, lovely, long-term purchase for x number of dollars. So we decided to come back and just do the numbers. So we're going to welcome again, Tim Robinson, co-founder of REI concierge, a company that got started overseas, state department spouses, to help people overseas invest in the US, primarily US Americans overseas invest. And then Danny Cole, senior investment consultant to a Turnkey provider called Spartan Invest LLC. And it's one of many of these Turnkeys. It's one that we happen to have really good experience with. So that's why I invited Danny. So welcome and joy. Make sure you look at the show notes for further contact. Thank you. Welcome to Real Estate Connections podcast, where relationships open doors. I'm Mary Foerster and housing is a universal need. We are often thinking about our existing housing, our future housing, that possibly of family members. This is where you're going to hear the issues and the people who are working the issues every day. Please hit subscribe and like if you find this podcast helpful to you. Thank you. And as they say on nighttime television, welcome back because we're back with Tim and Danny. This is a follow-up discussion of an episode that we did just two weeks ago, where we introduced Turnkey investments. And Danny's going to tell us again, Tim's going to tell us again what Turnkey is. But we had a session on what is Turnkey investment? How are they structured? Are there any risks? How do they operate? We covered that all in that first episode. So please listen to it. It is so wonderful. Now we want to talk about numbers because at the end of that conversation, we were thinking, okay, so what does this cost? So we're going to get started. So Tim, when we cite for us again, what is a Turnkey investment? Sure. Thanks for having us back, Mary. I'll talk Turnkey and investing all day. So happy to explain. My partner, Lisa, likes to say that Turnkey investing is a little bit like Monopoly. So I think that it is very hands-off. You find a vetted Turnkey provider such as Danny on the other side of the screen there. And the way they operate, and Danny can get more into this, but essentially from the buyer slash investor point of view, it's soup to nuts, right? The Turnkey operator finds a dilapidated house or one that's already in decent shape, brings it up to standard based on the market and rental rates they're trying to achieve. They sell it to you. I mean, I bought all my houses with Spartan, I think when they were still dilapidated, I basically reserved them and waited for their innovation to be complete. I was provided with pictures and videos and then inspection reports as the process went. Then once it was ready, they put it out to market for potential tenants. They do the leasing, the background check, everything you need to do in-house. And then they put a tenant in there and obviously take over management from that day. So essentially rather than... And we do have clients. I think it might be helpful to see the converse of Turnkey for folks that are investing from out of state or overseas. And that's more the traditional real estate relationships, right? They would come to me as a realtor. I would give them my inspector. I would introduce them to our appraiser. I would introduce them to lenders, then different property management companies to choose from. So there's a lot more room for error. There's a lot more heavy lifting. There's a lot more paralysis by analysis potential. So Turnkey is very much like... I mean, in the case of Spartan, I called Danny and I said,"Danny, I'm ready for a house." And he says, "What are you looking for? What neighborhood?" I kind of... He guides me that way and he says, "Okay, it'll be ready in three months. We'll get a tenant in there." So it is that simple. Honestly, just for those listening, it's like, "This sounds too good to be true," or some kind of scam. It's not. With a good company, it is something where it really is that easy. And it's hard to believe in this day and age with the real estate. I mean, it's a very complicated transaction. We all know that. But if they're operated properly with the track record that someone like Spartan has, it really is that easy for the end users like us. Excellent. Thank you so much. And Danny, where do people... I mean, what are the ideal situations? So Tim has invested in property in Alabama. Why isn't Spartan in Maryland or the DC area? I mean, what makes it attractive to Spartan Investments to buy the property? Yeah. So many customers ask that question. They'll call and they want to... They live in X, fill in the gap. And they want a property there, but they want that turnkey solution. They love the idea. They're like, "Hey, can you do it in my own backyard?" And the reason for that is because the headwinds and so many other markets are very difficult. So you'll have a very high tax rate. You'll have very unlandlord friendly states or cities, just the expense alone that's very unaffordable. So that hurts people to diversify or it keeps them from diversifying their portfolio like they would like to. Our sweet spot, 150 to 200K, and that allows with a 20 or 25% or if they're paying cash, depends on the individual, it allows them to multiply their investments and save fairly quick and create that diversity in several areas that are within our bandwidth, within our area. And mostly we do focus on Alabama. We get into Tennessee a bit, which Chattanooga area or Metro, but that allows us to be in a tax friendly, landlord friendly, affordable area that just, it simply works. And you can't, as we mentioned in the last show, every area is going to have its little nuances regarding the area, the soil, the appraisals, the sub markets. And you have to be cognizant of that when you move into a new market and some simply, they just don't work or they're very difficult to work, especially from a turnkey perspective, because people have to understand that we also have to be profitable as a company. And in that, there's another hand in that and it creates that passive investment that people are looking for, but it has to make sense on the numbers, on the number side of the scale. So that's what it's about. That's a hands off investment, basically, as long as you have a reputable, strong company doing all the back office, doing everything for you. That's really what I mean. And then the landlord friendly thing to our listeners who don't know what that means, a number of us as renters would be thrilled to have renter friendly environments like the city of Boston, right? Or a lot of major cities. The laws and regulations are there to protect abuse against renters, right? Or by renters, for renters. So in these situations, the states that Danny's talking about, their laws are more friendly to the landlord, not against the renter, but there are nuances in the law that might protect the interest of the landlord first, but then through adjudication, protect the renter or whatever the mediation is. So it's not like they're anti-renter states, it's just more favorable to the landlord. So that's really wonderful. Danny, you mentioned 150 to 200,000 to actually buy an investment property. And I know that you have numbers you want to share with us, but what would that investment be? What would the initial investment be? And what are the kind of expenses that we need to prepare for going forward as well? Yeah, really, really good question. So it's not just about can I get into the property, you have to protect yourself in regard to miscellaneous maintenance expenses in the future or vacancy, if that potential vacancy in the future or turnover cost. And so I usually recommend customers come in with an additional four to $7,000 set aside for just miscellaneous expenses. Now, it doesn't have to be tucked away under your mattress or dug a hole and you dig a hole in the backyard, but it needs to be invested somewhere that you can within 30 days access those funds. That's just a peace of mind thing. It doesn't matter if you're investing with turnkey or a very active investor, having those funds set aside for the what if moments, it just gives you peace of mind long term. Initially, when you invest with turnkey, the beauty of turnkey really is that you're not working around renovations and the unknown portion of the renovation. And did I forecast correctly? And did I pick my rent rolls correctly? Am I five miles outside of two miles outside of the right number? You know, is the appraisal going to come in? Because on the turnkey side, at least with us, number one, the down payment that you put in out front, if it's 172,000, if it's 200,000, you know the purchase price out of the gate. I'm never going to call you back and say, Hey, Mary, I know you liked it at 172, but 185 still a really good deal. We ran into a little math dude. Thank you. That just doesn't happen. And that's peace of mind for a lot of investors, especially new investors. So you can say, okay, out of the gate, I'm putting 25% down. So I know exactly what that number is. And out of the gate, I usually recommend people set aside 5% or forecast 5% for miscellaneous tax and insurance escrows, miscellaneous, or just closing calls. What we call closing, right? Yeah. Exactly. So that's going to give you, if you're 25% down, roughly 30% to get into the property. And then of course you have those reserves set aside for what if moments that with warranties and safeguards, you shouldn't need any time in the near future, but it's better to be prepared and have those funds out of the gate than not to have them and need them. So yeah. And where do people finance these things? So are there certain lenders that will finance turn key? Is it just a broad kind of category within any mortgage lender? One of the things we found to be very, very beneficial, and we've been doing this for about three years, and that's a forward commitment, lending, I guess you would say policy. Basically, in a nutshell, it allows us instead of being confined to Fannie Mae's conventional lending standard of we can only give 2% as a seller concession, it allows us to buy the rate down to whatever we wish. So currently, and for the last three years, we've been buying the rate down to 5.5%, which is a conventional loan, 5.5%, 25% down, and you, the buyer, aren't paying any points. So the way we do that is we go to a lender of our choice, and we say, today, how much, if a customer has a 780 credit score, can naturally qualify from a debt income ratio, and they put 25% down, how much will it cost us to buy the rate down to 5.5%? And they may say five, six points, whatever that may be. For a time, it was very, very high, and it hurt us, but it allowed our customers to get a lower rate that made sense from a cash flow perspective. So we're able to buy that in bulk, let's say a million dollars at a time. We know what's coming down our pipeline, and you, the investor, when you close, you simply have your pre-qualification in place before you reserve a property on our website. And then when you close, we just apply the necessary points to your deal. You get a fixed 30-year 5.5% through that lender. It doesn't cost you extra. We're not getting anything on the back end from them or points or anything like that. It's just we have to buy the points through someone, and we've been doing that for quite a while. Another option is DSCR lending. I have so, so many customers that have to use DSCR, and that's debt service coverage ratio. And basically, it looks at the property and your credit, the property's ability to float itself, and then your credit as the individual. So if you're buying directly through an LLC, you're a business owner that may be on paper, you don't look so hot, but your income's good. You already own the 10 properties that are allocated for a conventional loan. You will need DSCR lending. If that's the case, we'll give a 6% seller concession, 6% of the loan amount, and that allows you to buy points or pay for closing costs. And it just helps, again, just make those numbers work because at the end of the day, if the numbers don't work, you know, nothing works. So yes, you have to get that through. You can use DSCR lenders of your choice, the conventional, you would need to go through the appropriate channel that we purchased the rate through. Right. Ah, Mr. Jim. Jim is having some audio issues, so he's touching his nose for us today. Tim. I heard DSCR. So I just want to spend a minute on DSCR because I think it's really important. I think investors are hearing a lot more about it. They have been for probably the past year, year and a half as interest rates continue to get high. I think it is somewhat the wave of the future for investors as they grow their portfolio. I say that for a couple reasons. Number one, it has helped out our international investors tremendously. People buying from overseas that are not US citizens do not have social security numbers. They do not have credit scores because they don't have US credit. These are two of the things that every conventional lender in the world looks at. So if you don't have those, you cannot get a conventional loan buying from overseas. However, if you were to just simply establish an LLC in a US state and take out a DSCR loan under this business, you can get as many as you want. Wow. Now, obviously, you still have to have financials to back that up. You still have to talk to a qualified lender, but it is a way for international investors that have excellent financials and great investment shops to do this without necessarily having to be on American soil. We've had dozens of folks do this. So I think even five, six years ago when we started talking to a lot of international investors, this wasn't a thing. It was very niche. You can do DSCR. It's magical. Now it's very rampant and it's wonderful and it's getting a lot easier to do. So explore DSCR. It is a little bit harder because the numbers really matter. But if you're an investor, that makes sense. I actually technically bought my first property on somewhat of a DSCR. I bought my triplex 10 years ago with a commercial loan, but the way they underwrite a commercial loan is the same as they do a DSCR. Let's see, is this 1.2? Will this produce 1.2 times the amount of revenue that we are lending to you? And if it does, if it's 20% more, then you're good. And I was good. So it's similar underwriting to the DSCR. Wonderful. Another thing is, and I think Danny alluded to it, is we all refer to our"golden tickets," our 10 mortgages that we can get through Fannie and Freddie before they're like,"Okay, that's enough. You can't have any more mortgages." This eliminates that hurdle. And so we have a lot of very ambitious investors that come to us and I love these guys that are just like, "Tim, what happens when I run out of my 10 mortgages?" I'm like, "Let's get a property first. Let's start looking at a couple of properties, see if we can get one, and then we'll worry about two, three, four, eight, and nine." But it eliminates that hurdle at the beginning. I'm personally at nine mortgages. So when I get my next one, it's the DSCR, or I have to start paying off properties. So I think for folks just getting started that might have that in the back of their mind, being ambitious and saying, "What happens when I hit 10? Am I done?" No. You can do as many as you want if you structure it properly. So I think it's a really important tool for every investor to get to know whether or not you use it to know that it is an available option. Great. That is terrific. That is really good. So Danny, I know you have some numbers for us. I'm more visual than I am auditory. And want to share your screen? Absolutely. Let's see if we can make this work here. Thanks for your notes, Jim. All right. So this is one of our performers that's actively on the site. And I agree, Mary, I'm so much more of a visual person. So it's nice to see these performers and to be able to break them down. And I do this on a daily basis with customers because they just want to see and understand the numbers and just fully dive into those numbers and the what ifs and double check taxes and double check just all the parameters around it. Our performers are all two-page performers. And it's nice because once you get used to that, you can just fly through them and kind of vet everything fairly quickly. And with that, the basis, the front end of the performer is going to be at the top right. So you'll see a photo of the property. And on our site, every location is different as far as provider, I should say. But we may have a renovated property there. It may be finished. It could be the dumpster fire that we purchased initially. It could be in a rough condition or it could say coming soon or something like that. But usually there's a photo there. In this case, this is a Birmingham property just outside of Birmingham, the downtown area. The top portion of our performance is going to just the specs of the property. Bedroom is fast, garage, acreage, septic sewer, is it complete or there'll be like a renovation completion date there in many cases. So as you go through that, you can see those details. As you come down, you'll see the property calculations. And the great thing, as I mentioned before, this purchase price here is 172. So it is what it is. I'm never going to come back to a customer and ask for more. And that's just what the situation is. So that's a renovated property too. So many customers think that, "Oh, it's 172 because they're very used to very expensive markets." I mean, Danny's, he wants 172 for the property, but then it's going to cost me$40,000, $50,000, $60,000 on the back end to get this property up to par so that I can rent it. No, that is not the case. It's 172,000 outside of closing costs or lending fees or anything like that. That is the purchase price. And just below that, you'll see the rent range. And we always use a rent range of a $100 gap. But again, our warranty says that on any renovated property, we will cover the 1425 in this case. We'll cover that target rent if we don't have that property rented in 30 days, and that covers you for a year. So I bought the property. Let's say I bought the property understanding that it was going to rent within that range, but you haven't rented it yet. So what you're telling me is that you're going to cover the 1425 or the expenses? The rent used in calculation. So it would actually be the rental amount shown there we would cover. Now, Mary, another thing is on our website, you'll see many properties. They'll be in different stages. Some are in mid-reno, and they'll have that date that I mentioned earlier, the completion date. Now, naturally, that one's not rented yet, but you'll never close until it's finished, appraised, inspected, and your earnest money or funds are protected by that. Now, you'll also see some that are rented, complete, ready to go. And so you have the choice to pick a property that's fully complete and rented. And I can tell you more about the tenant, the timeline, as far as how long did they lease, the amount, things like that. Regarding the property, it's not just what it will rent for because you can have two identical properties, both rent for 1425, both similar square footage. One works, one doesn't. It could be taxes, it could be the insurance, and that's why areas matter. In one area, like Florida, it has a high property tax rate. Texas has a high property tax rate. Insurance as a nightmare can be in Florida. So that derails a lot of those properties that would otherwise make sense. It's profitable. Yes, right. In this case, the taxes are 1661. And I like to go with my customers, verify the tax rate, see what they're assessed at, and just crunch those numbers at a very granular level. The annual insurance premium I'm showing at 950 here. And we always provide the actual insurance quote. We get a quote at the top of the page there right under the photo. In this case, it's Scott, his number and information and email are there. And we give you the quote in a Google Drive to share as well. So you can just dive deep into that. And then lastly, HOA fees, in most of our areas, that's just non-existent. Now, on our pro forma, we have management fees. And that's a given for any management company. Our normal rate is 9%. But we, for the first year, we provide 5%. Wow. A start off point, just to benefit the customer. And more importantly, that gives you time to take advantage of one of our promotions. Because we manage our own properties. If someone comes back and buys a second property, it could be staggered at different times, or it could be together. They automatically, when that second property closes, get 3% for three full years. So that's a really big benefit. And so with all that in mind, you'll have a cap rate and the cash on cash return. The first set of numbers is the net after taxes, insurance, management fees, but no mortgage or amortization costs. And that's 13,634. And so we'll divide that by that purchase price of 172, which gives you the cap rate. And in this case, it's 7.93. And define cap rate for those of us who are ignorant. Yes. Yes. So cap rate is, I'm purchasing this property. What is my net after rent minus taxes, insurance and miscellaneous costs, but not counting in any mortgage costs. So cap rate is a cash purchase, if you will. Typically, because of the power of leverage and benefit of such, a cap rate is typically lower than the cash on cash return. And the cash on cash return is factored the same way with taxes, insurance, management fees, miscellaneous costs associated with the property. But you always factor in the mortgage costs with cash on cash. And your net is always typically lower because the mortgage takes a lot of that, takes much more of your net income out as a cost, but you divide by your down payment. So in this case, it would be 25% down. So that allows your cash on cash cash in versus what you're getting out. Right. Be higher. In this case, 11.2% percent. In our pro forma, there is one thing we always charge a leasing fee. And these are one year performance. We don't add these to the pro forma, but it is a half of half of the first month's rent. That's the vetting of the tenant, placing the tenant, making sure we have a secure, strong tenant in place for you as a leasing agents and everything that's involved in that. So that is something you would need to net out. And of course, I talked to all of my customers about that. And we dive into page two of all of our pro formas. Some of the information is included in the return and some of it is not. And it's just an additional benefit to you. For instance, a principal buydown is a natural equity builder for you, meaning that someone else is paying your mortgage off that principal off that you owe. And we give a chart here on the top right that showcases that and it shows the return associated with it. Now that is not baked into the pro forma or the return, but it's really nice to see in that schedule. The other thing is going to be appreciation. That's actually on the first page. We factor 3% per year and showcase that from a five, 10, 15 year perspective. And it's going to not be in the pro forma as far as baked into the numbers, but you get to see how those numbers impact the deal overall. Lastly, you have maintenance and vacancy. We like to put that in there. Mary, we are not keeping these funds. It's important that people know that we don't put them in an escrow account for you. But if you wanted to see what 5% for maintenance, 5% for vacancy looks like against your deal, you will see a new net on page two that showcases just that. And you can see the full breakdown of all the numbers on the front page from an annual and a monthly basis. And it just helps to kind of give a better visual, especially when you look at the monthly and annual calls. If I could jump in here real quick, I'm going to give sing praises for Spartan, where I was about to call them out on something because I didn't see the second page. I didn't remember them doing this, but I think this is so important. And this is what separates truly great turnkey providers from those that, I don't want to say falsely advertised, but kind of blow smoke. I think that the education piece is such a huge part of this. And for them to put down here, again, and we talk to our investors about this all the time, there is kind of what we call true cash flow. What is coming into my bank account every single month? What can I tangibly spend on dinner when I go out at the end of the month versus what should I be setting aside out of this true cash flow for when things go wrong on my property? Because they will. And it's more philosophical and you kind of have to break it up in your head. But the fact that Spartan does this on their pro forma is tremendous because some people are like,"Oh, it's a brand new house. They just renovated everything. Nothing's going to go wrong." Now, while that's probably the case for the first five, seven, 10 years for the major systems, roof, foundation, things of that nature, because I've done a thorough job renovating, things will go wrong. Houses become obsolete. Things break down. It's just the nature of owning a home. So if you fail to calculate for the 5% cap backs, the 3% to 5% maintenance, the vacancy that will inevitably happen. And if you're outside of the warranty for Spartan paying your lease, these are serious costs. And if you just think that you're never going to incur them, then you're buying an investment you don't know enough about. So I really appreciate that the second page is here because it's super important. And I think that this is something that while again, to Danny's point, we're not holding 10% in escrow for eventual maintenance and repairs. You should be. You as a buyer investor should be. You should have an emergency fund. You should have a cap backs fund for when that AC connector goes, you need three grand. If you don't have three grand, that can hurt. Another just kind of side note here that I started personally about three years ago and changed my entire investing picture. A mentor of mine actually told me this David Shaw, West Florida invest shout out David Shaw, but he told me always separate. And it seems obvious. I just didn't think of it because I'm not that smart, but you separate your personal funds from your business funds. Yes. Period. Full stop. All mortgages go into one account, all rents come into one account. Like capital expenditures are in there and then you and your family's funds are separate. Do it. I think it's so important. You're speaking for experience, that sounds like. Honestly, because you take it personal, right? Yes. Yes. Like a hot water heater goes, well, there goes 1600 bucks. We can't go on spring break. Right? Like that hurts versus if it's just in your operating account, it's just kind of there. Like you kind of ignore it. It grows. It declines a little bit over time. It absolutely grows. And it doesn't depend on your day to day life. So sorry, that was a total sidebar, but I think really, really worth talking about for a minute. Yeah. I think I have the greatest respect for you and your company and the amount of education that you do for your clients. It is fascinating, Tim. And so I can see why this resonates so well with you. The bottom line here is for $172,000 property, I need to have somewhere around$50,000 it looks like. Is that right? So yes. In this particular case, you're looking, if we just run the math, 172 and our down payment, you can utilize a 20 or 25% down payment. 25%. It's like, Hey, it's 5.5% fixed guaranteed. If you use 20, you may have to bring a point, point and a half to the table to keep that lower down cost and down payment, but same rate. So let's use 25% at 25%. That's 43,000 closing costs. You're looking at yes, another 5% roughly. That's 51,600. Oh, more. Yes. And as we mentioned, you know, having those funds on hand out of the gate, it kind of takes the worry, the tension out of the deal. I like for people to have four to $7,000 just out of the gate, putting in that fund, that business account. That way you're just not worried about, did I save fast enough if something were to happen? Houses are living, breathing creatures. And yes, we do amazing renovations with, you know, pex pipe and PVC and new roofing and new HPCs and new network, all those things. But I own multiple homes and my personal home. I live here. I know it, but it, there's things still break. Things still happen. It just, it can happen. So you want to be prepared. And what I have found for investors that are prepared, things that happen, they have a long-term mindset. They just say, okay, let's handle it. Let's fix it. Let's move forward. And then they build out diversity in their portfolio, which creates less stress because things don't break all at one time. Number one, number two, the, or the other investor that, that isn't prepared. It's the real estate ruined my life. I'm like, no, you came into this very unprepared. You tried to buy too much too fast. And this is not a race to the finish line. This is a let me build a pension for myself. Let me build a legacy for my children and family, you know, as far as something that will outlive me, but let's do this one block at a time. And, and don't forget, don't miss the, the small incremental gains that you're seeing along the way by focusing purely on the, I want 20 properties. I want 10 properties. There's a win when you can say, hey, this paid for vacation this year, or this paid for, you know, I finally covered my mortgage with my rental properties. I, I covered a portion of my child's tuition through my rental properties, whatever that may be. Each step along the way is a win. And I know where I'm, I get sidetracked. I apologize, Mary, but I see people miss that sometimes and it's the, it can detract them from moving forward. That's the wisdom, you know, that's the wisdom that good providers, good realtors that they do provide, that you do provide. And, and we need to hear more. And as I told you last episode, I'm the back of the envelope person. I need 55,000 to get this property and oh yeah, they said put aside 5,000 or whatever. Yeah. So, so I think those, those big terms kind of global things, but you know, these are the specifics and this is why, and I think that's really terrific. I know we just don't have a whole lot of time left, but to the question, how long do we hold these properties? I mean, what's, what's reasonable? What you're up to Tim, what are you thinking of? How long are you going to hold these properties? Probably forever. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I'm a buy and hold investor and obviously this, I can just answer for me, right? I think your strategies change. I say that now, something could totally change. I mean, I honestly fully anticipate paying off at least two of my houses in Birmingham by the time my two little guys are 18 and saying here, you know, here's, here's, here's your business. Here's your college fund. Yeah. What have you? You've kind of watched your mom and I do this for years now. You get it, see what you can do with it. You know what I mean? I think that, that is really cool. So yeah, I don't, unless something changes, right? And I don't anticipate selling these and if they want to sell them, they can, right? Like they, they can pay for college. They can do whatever they want. They can buy their own business. I feel like I've done my part at that point, right? Yeah. So it's, you know, we have other clients that if you catch an appreciation upswing, you know, if you bought in 2016 and then hit the 2020, you know, COVID boom and they got 40 grand, they're like, hey, let's, let's go ahead and cash this out and roll it into something else. Do it. So I say never kind of tongue in cheek, but I don't have any plans to, unless it becomes really enticing for me to do so. Or I see another opportunity that excites me. You guys are modeling this so really well. And, and as you were talking before about, you know, being able to buy this, this, and this, and I was thinking about being over leveraged. And when I became a realtor in 09, you know, people were over leveraged. There was, there was no security to fall back on. And so I know we've learned from that. I know in that most recent episode, I want to thank you both again. And as, as the last episode, I got off the episode so enthusiastic. Here's one other special area that we can explore. And as I listened to your episode, the first one, I thought, wow, this is, this is wonderful. Cause I had missed a point that Danny had made, which was some people cannot afford property in their own neighborhood, but this could be affordable to them. This could be a way of getting into an investment or real estate investment. And I can't in a suburb of, you know, in this case, Boston or DC. So thank you gentlemen. Anything else you want to say before we say farewell, episode number two. Mary, just thank you for having us on again. I've really enjoyed it. It's fun to educate everyone and your listeners. And it's nice to see Tim's perspective. And I just, I want to say, take a moment to, to give Tim and Lisa's kudos just because when customers come our way and they've chatted with them and gone through their process, they come to us very educated and they come to us with a mindset of long-term investing. And that is just a relief. It's really nice to see that education. And they don't have to tell me, "Hey, I talked to him first." I could know that by their responses and all that stuff. So that is amazing. Because it gives an open door to someone that truly is outside of the country and truly may not think that option is even most possible. So kudos to you guys. Terrific. Tim. Thanks. Thank you again. Thank you Mary for having us. I think this is, you know, the education piece is paramount. And so that's what Danny and I, we're passionate about this. We do it ourselves. We love teaching it. And so the more people we can share this with, because honestly, I think one of my most exciting things just being on this podcast and our podcast and whenever we get to talk about this is people are still shocked when I say $172,000 and they're like, "For a house?" Four bedrooms, two beds, two car garage. A full grown up house, all by itself. Not attached to anything else. 170 grand. And like, it's just for people in the DC Metro, for people in Boston, for people, various parts across the country, it's unheard of. So I think just letting people know that is really cool. This is totally tangible. This is totally doable for anyone. So yeah, thanks again. Thank you both. Have a great day. Have a great home inspection, Tim. And I know we'll be talking again. Thank you so much for joining us today. And I hope you found this conversation useful to you and your real estate goals. You'll find the contact information for our guests and any links they recommend you have in the show notes. And should we be able to help you identify some strong real estate professionals in your area? Drop us a note at info at realestakeconnectionspodcast.com. Thanks again and bye for now.