Second Home, Coastal Living, Retirement Moves, and Real Estate Decisions Explained

What should you consider before relocating from a major city to a quieter coastal community?

In this episode of Real Estate Connections, Mary Foerster talks with Washington DC Realtor David Shotwell about second homes, retirement relocation, aging in place, walkable communities, and what urban homeowners should think through before making a major lifestyle move.

David shares insights from 14 years in real estate across Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware. Together, Mary and David explore the realities of relocating to coastal communities like Rehoboth Beach, including healthcare access, seasonal lifestyle shifts, affordability, second-home ownership, accessory dwelling units (ADUs), workforce housing, and aging-related housing decisions.

This conversation is especially valuable for:

• Empty nesters considering relocation
• Buyers thinking about second homes
• Adults planning retirement moves
• Families helping aging parents
• Urban homeowners looking for lifestyle changes

In This Episode You’ll Learn

• Why some homeowners are leaving urban areas for coastal communities
 • What buyers should consider before relocating to a slower-paced area
 • The realities of second-home ownership and maintenance
 • Why healthcare access matters in retirement relocation decisions
 • How walkable communities impact quality of life
 • Why buyers should visit locations during different seasons before moving
 • The growing role of accessory dwelling units (ADUs)
 • Why younger buyers are struggling to enter the housing market
 • How boomers are helping younger generations buy homes
 • Why listening is one of the most important skills in real estate

Guest: David Shotwell

David Shotwell is a highly respected Realtor with Compass serving Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware. With more than 14 years of real estate experience, David specializes in helping clients navigate urban living, second-home ownership, retirement relocation, estates, tenant-occupied properties, condominiums, and cooperative housing.

Before real estate, David worked for AARP for 13 years leading national initiatives focused on livable communities, walkability, accessible housing, transportation options, and aging-friendly development. He holds multiple professional designations including CAPS, SRES, ABR, AHWD, and GRI.

David is known for his consultative approach, strong advocacy, deep market knowledge, and passion for helping clients align housing decisions with long-term lifestyle goals.

Connect with David Shotwell

Website
 Compass Profile – David Shotwell

Instagram
 @davidrealtordc

This episode is intended for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial or investment advice.

Transcript

0:01

Hi there. Today I've had the pleasure of interviewing David Shotwell. David and I go back a whole lot of years when we worked together in a big organization and David and I both became realtors in our subsequent kind of next iteration. David's active in the Washington DC area and very active in the DC area. And I've been following David all these years on social media. And so I knew when it was time to talk with somebody who knows about getting a home, knows about the desire for some clients to relocate possibly to a more quiet area and his case, coastal Delaware, that he was really a wonderful person to talk to. So you're going to hear from the experience of a 14 year realtor in Washington, DC, who's extremely well connected. And here, there are three things about David that I know you're going to find that is really, really attractive in a professional is he has energy. He has energy when he talks about what his he's passionate about to, he has experience three, he listens and he listens really, really well. That's what we want. You know, we want all those qualities in any professional, but particularly in a decision making time of when you want a second home or possibly reload out of an urban area to a more rural area. These are the kinds of people that we want to hear too. So listen, listen to David today. And yeah, I know you'll really enjoy it. And don't hesitate to, you know, press subscribe and recommend the, the episode to your friends and family. Thank you so much. Welcome to Real Estate Connections podcast, where relationships open doors. I'm Mary Foerster and housing is a universal need. We are often thinking about our existing housing, our future housing, that possibly of family members. This is where you're going to hear the issues and the people who are working the issues every day. Please hit subscribe and like if you find this podcast helpful to you. Thank you. from Compass Realty in Washington, DC. And I've known David for many, many years, and we're going to have a blast talking with him today because David has unbelievable energy for the things that he is passionate about. So David, welcome. It's so good to see you. Thanks so much, Mary. I'm so happy to be here with you. This is so fun. So David, tell us what is life like in DC now in the DC area? Cause I think you serve Maryland and Virginia as well. I do. Yes. I'm licensed in Washington, DC, Virginia, Maryland, and also Delaware, which we can talk about. Most of my business is in DC proper. I do some business in the close in suburbs of Northern Virginia and what we call suburban Maryland. Very good. And you've been at this for a while, right? Yeah. I started selling real estate full time in 2012. So 14 years ago, 14 years. Yeah. That's a lot. And so you've seen, you've seen the big up. Are you seeing kind of a down? I know you're very busy now, but I was kind of hearing for a while, things were like moderating a little bit. Yeah. So, um, the market in DC has been a bit strange as you can imagine. Um, last year there was a lot going on in the city. Uh, so we had the effects of doge and then the, um, the, the government shut down last fall. And so all of those scenes, obviously affect people's, um, either need to sell or desire to buy. And so there were a lot of dynamics at play last year. Uh, in fact, I was telling a lot of my seller clients last fall, that if they didn't need to, I would recommend waiting until this year. Um, just because there was so much uncertainty in the market. Um, and just in the city last fall in particular. And so I had a lot of sellers that actually did that. They listened to my advice and we've since, um, listed their properties this spring to sell and they're all under contract and all doing well. So, um, you know, that's the sign of a really strong agent and my opinion, an agent that says, Hey, look, you don't have to reinvest your money right now. You don't have to sell right now. Let's take a little break and see where this horizon is going to be. Because in the end we're responsible, you're responsible for getting them the best price and, and turnerms that they can have on their investment or on their property. Absolutely. And I, you know, I have a philosophy and I think a lot of real agents have this as well, but you know, I never want to do something that's in my best interest. It's always in the client's best interest. And so, uh, everything that I would recommend to them, everything that I would suggest they do perhaps to their property to get it ready for sell or to not sell again at a particular time, it's all, um, based on what I think is best for them. And then it's a conversation, you know, we talk about, um, you know, their desires and wants and needs and timing and all of those things. And I always say, if, you know, if, if you need to sell now, we can make it happen and we'll, we'll do exactly what we need to do. Yeah. Good. Excellent. And so now you have a lot of activity, right? My sense is that the market is quite dynamic. Are you seeing price changes or is it just, um, kind of staying, staying steady? Yeah. It's a bit of a tale of two markets in DC and the greater DC area. So single family homes continue to sell really well. Um, it's a bit of a hangover from, uh, the COVID era where everyone was kind of moving into something larger. They wanted a yard. Uh, and so single family homes continue to do really well in this market. Uh, the condo market has been a little more challenging, um, because that's typically either first time home buyers, uh, and in some ways, uh, downsizers. So empty nesters that had a big family home may be out in the suburbs and they want more of the city life. And so they sell the big home in the suburbs and they move downtown. And so, um, some of that has been delayed as well, but I have to say, my experience, um, selling condos, cause I do a lot of condos. I, you know, I work and live in downtown DC. Yes. And nature is, yeah. Is that, um, you know, if you, if they're positioned right, if they show well, if you do all the hard work upfront, which is, um, you know, either repainting or some touch up or little things like that, staging it to sell, or if you're going to live there while we sell it, I go in and kind of do a consultation and say, let's move this piece of furniture over here. Let's put this one in storage. Um, so all the, I would say all the hard work of selling is upfront before you ever list the property for sale. So if we do all of those things and kind of get that right, uh, and then obviously nail pricing, cause that's gotta be based on, um, you know, the comps and the current market conditions. Um, when you do all of those things correctly and well, then condos are selling as well. And so that's been my experience. Good. Have you seen any fallout from like the Florida experience of the construction questions versus, you know, the special assessments? Um, what is, you know, what is the viability of my building? Do you see much of that at all on DC? It's definitely come up. So obviously since the tragedy in Florida with the collapse of the condo building, uh, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have tightened their scrutiny of condo, um, buildings. And so there is an added level of review that they're doing. And Fannie and Freddie are the underwriters of all conventional mortgages, uh, or almost all conventional mortgages. And so, um, I've definitely seen that. Um, I've definitely had a couple of properties that were considered to be non warrantable, which means Fannie and Freddie wouldn't underwrite the building. And then you've run into all kinds of challenges about trying to find financing. And you have to find a lender that's willing to do it. Um, and typically the interest rate is much higher in those situations. And so, um, you know, I'm always counseling my clients at own condos. It may be bemoaning a higher condo fee or a special assessment that they have been issued that it's really in their best interest in the health of that building and the ability to be able to sell, uh, the units in that building going forward. When you're ready, that's right. Excellent. You know, I just, um, all of this sounds like so reasonable to me. And, and in sense, my sense too is it builds a lot of trust. There's a lot of trust in your counsel. Exactly. So you're a man who lives in two places and you, um, I've always known this about you that you have had a love with Delaware and coastal Delaware. Yes. And for people who aren't familiar with the area, I think I said, well, how many hours does it take to drive out to Rehoboth from DC? Depends. Depends on when you're going. I always try to go in an off time. That's the case. You can do the drive. Two o'clock Thursday AM, right? Exactly. So, you know, if you're going to the, in the, in our off time, um, you can typically do the drive in about two and a half hours. So not, not bad at all. And I've done it where I've driven over for the day or I'm in Rehoboth or coastal Delaware, and I drive back to DC for appointments and then turn around and drive back. So it's doable. Yeah. A lot of, a lot of eBooks, a lot of audio books, maybe, um, help with that. So, so, so what, you know, I, I have been to Rehoboth many times and that whole area lose and, and in places like that and Louis it's Louis, right? Louis. Yes. And, uh, and, uh, and even further down to ocean city I've been down here, but what an attractive area. Yeah. So attractive. And I know that you have a market that goes into that area. You own property there and you got your license in the state of Delaware. So I'm figuring you've got a plan. Yes. Yes. And what is your plan? Um, so first of all, I, I think I vacationed in Delaware in the early nineties and fell in love with it. It just, it was something about it. The, the in particular Rehoboth beach for me is like a magical little Mayberry type town. Um, and we're spoiled. It's a, it's a small town, but we are spoiled with amazing restaurants. And so we get kind of big city restaurants in this very walkable small community that's right on the ocean. And so, you know, I've loved it from the time that I went there in the early nineties and then I was lucky enough to be able to buy something in the late nineties. And then over the past years I have bought and sold and traded and did a little bit of development there. Um, and so I've just loved it. I've loved that market. Um, I'm very familiar with it. Um, and I was referring a lot of business to local agents there. Um, which is great. They handled my clients and friends really well. Um, but I also had a lot of colleagues here in DC that kept saying, listen, we know, you know, this market so well, why don't you get your license? We'd love to refer business to you. Uh, and then also I, you know, friends and clients be able to buy there or sell there if they're selling. Um, and so late last year I finally pulled the trigger. I don't know what the block was for me, but I waited, I waited a long time to do it. Um, but pulled the trigger and got my license in Delaware late last year. Um, and the plan is, uh, as I get older to do more business in Delaware and start to slow down my business in DC and then our plan as a couple is to eventually move their full time. Right. And then you'll be in the business of referring back to DC. Exactly. And then so let's talk about, you know, you, you and I have a, um, you know, a love affair with the whole kind of aging world. Um, and um, so you have people leaving the district looking for second homes and leaving the district looking for permanent homes. Is that right? So, correct. Yeah. So, so kind of where is that market these days in terms of your community, your, your business? Sure. So, you know, whenever I'm talking to someone that's considering buying and coastal Delaware, I, you know, we have a kind of an intake conversation and kind of a deep dive on what they're looking for. And one of the things I want to ascertain pretty quickly is, is this going to be a second home for them? Is it going to be a retirement home for them? Is it going to be an investment property that they rent out or is it a combination of all three? Because honestly, that's what what Robith has been for me. So I bought a house there that we use as a second home, but we also rent it out in the summer and eventually it's going to be my retirement home. And so, but understanding that upfront helps me understand their motivations and what may be important to them. And it, and it varies. I mean, I have a lot of clients, I had a recent transaction in Lewis Beach, and it's a younger couple and they have a family and they wanted a second home down at the, at the ocean. And so for them, it was the second home. I have two other clients I'm working with now that will be retirement homes for them. So one is selling a house in DC. The other is selling a house in Silver Spring, Maryland. And their plan is they will move to the Robith Beach area, coastal Delaware, permanently full time. So we're talking about coastal Delaware, but really David's experience applies to really any kind of urban area where people are in a sense traveling probably more than an hour and a half to get to, to get to a destination. It could be a mountain, right? But we're talking about coast. David, are people realistic about the difference in lifestyle from being in an urban area, such a vibrant urban area to being, and now it's been a while since I've been to coastal Delaware, but there's a lot of farmland on the way. There's some chicken houses on the way. Yes. Is that people realistic? So I think in my experience, most people that are considering moving there have been, and perhaps been a lot. And so they are fully aware of what they're getting into and they're aware of the differences. And it's interesting. I have a lot of friends and clients here in DC that have the second home there and they are thinking about moving there full time. And a lot of them have said, well, maybe I'll sell my house in DC or the DC area and I'll buy a condo because they're not quite ready to give up city life. But we were at dinner the other night and you know, some really smart friends and colleagues or clients. And they said, you know, we will run into numbers. And it like, it doesn't necessarily make sense for us to buy a condo in the city because, but even if we paid cash between the condo fees and the taxes, we could go back to the city and stay at a really nice hotel once a month or even twice a month. And it would be cheaper than owning something. And so I think people that are considering this move to, you know, a slower area like coastal Delaware are beginning to think through all of these variables and what may make sense for them. And so I just thought that was a brilliant thought and something we've now can started to consider as well for ourselves. Excellent. So are there any kind of, are there any kind of red flags that come up to you for you when people say, okay, I'm, I'm ready to relocate. I'm ready to go to coastal Delaware. Anything that kind of comes up that says, Hey, wait a minute now, I want you to think about, and I want you to consult with that, you know, that kind of thing. Do you red flags come up for you? Healthcare issues, condition of healthcare. Yeah. So that's, I think healthcare is a very important thing for all of us as we age. And so certainly we have friends that have moved to Delaware and still come back to DC for their doctors and dentists and all of that. And part of that is they have a really good longstanding relationship with these medical practitioners. I think the other is they perhaps have struggled to find providers in coastal Delaware. So it's, it's certainly a need there and certainly the area, the county, Sussex County, they're doing more and more to attract doctors and medical practitioners to the community. There's a primary medical hospital system there. There's another one that's from more of the Wilmington, Delaware area, and they are coming down into Sussex County as well. And so it's certainly improving. But that's something that I would say to anybody, no matter where they're thinking of potentially relocating is, you know, what, what healthcare opportunities will there be there for you? Yes. I remember somebody, a friend in Northern Virginia who had serious liver issues or kidney issues. And her husband desperately wanted to move to mountain Tennessee and they did it. They actually did it. And she's, she's lucked out. She, you know, fortunately not far away. There was a really wonderful expert in there in mountain Tennessee, their way there. But that's, that's really tremendous. I don't know. I've never, I've never had a second home. I think of it sometimes as that's a lot of work. That's a whole, it's a whole lot of work to keep that all going. And, and I've observed, you know, relatives and things like that who've done head property on the Cape and stuff. So it is, it's funny. I have another good friend and he used to say, you can have a house at the beach and a condo in the city, or you can have a house in the city and a condo at the beach, but don't have two houses. And let me tell you, we have two houses and this weekend we worked on our, our garden here in DC. And I said, it's a lot to maintain. It's a lot to, to keep up and to, and to work on. And so I think there's some truth to that old scene or adage. But going back to like what people should consider if they're thinking about a move and in particular maybe a move to more of a, um, you know, a different type of destination than what they're used to. And I have friends and clients that have moved from the DC area to Mexico, to Portugal, to all over. And, um, I mean, one of the things I've always said, and this is, this is true for coastal Delaware as well, is that you really shouldn't go and visit these places at different times of the year. And so I had some clients move out to Palm Springs, California during the winter. It's gorgeous in the summer. It's really, really hot. And they had not been there in the summer and they ended up moving. They left. It was too much for them. Um, you know, coastal Delaware can be really, really slow in the off season. I, I love that. I love that, you know, it's quieter. It's easier to get into restaurants and stuff like that. But are you prepared for that? Are you prepared for a much slower season? And so I think that's really important for anyone that's thinking about a move to a different area is to really understand, you know, I say the four seasons, um, you know, what, what is the weather like there? What is, what are the activities like in those locations? Uh, and is that going to work for you? Yeah. And I recently interviewed Frank Bernard from a West coast, Florida, they just moved to the villages. Um, he is, his wife is so happy. Yeah. That is the perfect community for his wife for him. You know, he's, he hasn't found his people yet. And, um, and he's, he's looking for his people. He shared that on the podcast as well. So I think that also we have that other factor where there's a couple or where there's more than a couple, there are other influences at play here. Um, and so I think that that slow season, you're a fairly extroverted so that you enjoy, you know, a slow season is really, it's a very powerful, I mean, it's a very important thing to know about yourself. Um, but, um, but I would consider you an extrovert, a big extrovert actually. Yeah. Fantastic. It's interesting you mentioned, you know, kind of finding your people or finding your tribe. So yeah, so we, I have a client here in DC, another former AARP employee. Yes. And, um, she's single. She's a little bit older and she, I'm going to sell her place in DC. And she's going to move into a continuing care facility in Bethesda, Maryland. And she was so intentional about it. And I so loved this. Um, and she said to me, I'm going to move into one of the brand new buildings because I want, as a single woman, I want to be there with other people that are moving in at the exact same time. So we can form friendships and have these bonds. And her concern was if she moved into an existing building or facility, you, she would be the odd man out, so to speak. And so I just thought that was so smart of her to have that, that foresight and knowledge to say, no, no, this is what I think is going to work best for me. When we were thinking about moving from Virginia to Massachusetts, a dear friend said, you know, and all my family's up here. So it was, I thought, Oh, well this will just be just like when we visit, right? A couple of times a year, it'll be the same. And she said, you know, be careful because those people have their lives and they've had their lives apart from you for decades. Right. And so, um, so I suggest you take a month and you go up and you see if you fit in their world. Right. It was good advice by the way. It was a good two years before I felt like we were kind of fitting in these, yeah, you know, this is a family, right? And they've had their lives for all of these years. And this stranger from Washington DC moves up there. And then in terms of, you know, weather is really important. We used to complain bitterly about weather in Northern Virginia, but mostly because of transportation into the district. Most of us, you know, what's our commute going to be like? Up here we complain about, um, when is the snow going to melt? Right. We have spring by the way, you can come up. It's really, really beautiful right here. Yeah. David, um, tell me about, uh, are you seeing kind of the aging of your clientele? I was reading, um, and they are at national association realtors, 42% of the sales have been boomers. Yeah. Yeah. And the average age of the first time home buyer is like low forties now. 42 I read. Yeah, which is just, it's amazing to me and it's sad because I think it's a commentary on what younger folks are dealing with. And, and, and I think so many of them feel like they may never be able to buy a home. Um, and you know, for me, home ownership, yeah, you know, it sounds trite, but it's, it is a path to generational wealth. I mean, buying, investing in yourself, investing in this, this, the structure that you can live in, um, earlier rather than later sets you up for a lifetime of appreciation and paying down the mortgage and having this wonderful asset that you also live in. And so, um, that number is shocking to me and it's a little sad because, um, I work with all types of clients. So I have first time home buyers, I have investors, I have retirees looking to downsize. Um, I worked with a lot of estates where our family members passed away and I'm helping sell the family home. Um, so I, you know, again, going back to younger people, I, I see their struggle and so much of it is like student debt. Um, and what I'm seeing in DC is that a lot of my younger clients are able to afford because they're getting help from their family, from their family. Yes. And so a lot of boomers are helping their kids with the down payment. Uh, and shockingly, so many are literally buying properties for their children or grandchildren outright. Yes. Because they have the equity, right? Right. And they can leverage that equity now through a number of vehicles, right? Right. Right. I'm curious about this kind of reverse mortgage to buy. I need to do some research on it. I'm going to do some more research. I've been hearing from a lot of lenders, but I want to hear about, you know, consumer organizations as well and what they're saying about these, these, um, quote, you know, new reverse mortgages and see what the issues are. Right. And then back on, so if I make, take a minute and just talk about kind of, some of my older clients, you know, I think a lot of what they're considering is, um, you know, perhaps they have most of them have a lot of equity in their homes. They've lived there a long time. And so where, where would they move? Where would they go? Are they spending as much or more than what they would sell their place for? Um, you know, the whole rate lock effect where people were locked in to two and a 3% mortgage rates. I mean, yes, we are hard to give. It's really hard to give up. I mean, um, and so I think those are all things that are, um, you know, people are trying to consider, but also it's affecting the market. It's affecting how many homes are available for sale, you know, who's buying them, all of those things. So, are you saying accessory dwelling units yet in your area? Um, you know that, and it sounds good. I mean, it sounds, we have a lot of land here, right? Yeah. A lot of grass here. Um, and, but you know, I would say the barrier for me is I don't really want to go through the process of putting a property on or putting an addition on. I don't want to go through it and I don't have the patience for it. So your question is very important. Where do you go? Right. Right. Oh, and you're on the ADU point, you know, DC is trying to make it easier for people that own property in the city to be able to create an accessory dwelling union by right. And there are some architects here and builders that have literally come up with plans that that have been approved by the city. So it's easier to get them implemented. And here in DC, we see a lot of, um, you know, perhaps you have a detached garage behind your house and so they'll do an accessory unit above the garage or, you know, here in, in, in city, we have a lot of, uh, we call them English basement apartments. So it's the lower level of your house. It's kind of half underground, half above ground. And so a lot of people are converting those into rental units. We have one in our house, uh, that we had a long-term tenant in it for many years and we switched to Airbnb. And so now we have people checking in and out, you know, multiple times a week. And so all of those things, you know, come into play. And then I think for older clients, it could be, you know, rental income. It could help with expenses. It could be a child moving back home after college that hasn't found a job yet. And they want some independence. It could be a place for a caregiver to stay. Right. So if you want to age in place and stay in your home, then maybe your live and help has some independent living space within your property, within your house or on your property. And so I think, um, there's lots of really smart uses for something like that. Yes. So, um, so there are about 20 States now that have passed ADU laws, very generous ADU laws. I was passed two years ago, regulations a year ago. Uh, unfortunately we have town government, and I say unfortunately because that means more factors at play as to what you can and cannot do. The laws, generous, very generous. Um, however, the towns are trying to make sure that they fit them. And so I live in a town that's trying to do a lot of restrictions next to a town that is wide open. Yes, yes, please do it. Yes. Right. So right. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting, you know, taking it back to coastal Delaware and probably any coastal area, um, and there's this whole workforce housing issue. And so like in the city of Rehoboth beach, I mean, all real estate is so incredibly expensive. Where did the workers stay? Are they, you know, 20 miles out down this highway with limited bus service? How did they get into town? And so I think that's something that communities are struggling with. How do you solve for this? Um, and in Rehoboth, there's a, there's a great restaurant in town, one of our favorites. And the couple that owns the restaurant bought, it was formerly a little motel. Someone had bought it and renovated it and made it into like little Airbnb's where they bought it from, from that developer. And that's where they let their workers stay in the summer. Awesome. It's walkable to the restaurant or bikeable. Yep. And, um, I just thought, one that is so incredibly kind, but also really smart business because you've got happy workers that can easily get to work. Um, they have a place to stay so they don't need to worry about that. Um, but that, I mean, that's something that I'm not sure a lot of people think about, but it's important to have a vibrant, successful community. I think those chambers of commerce and those business associations, they're thinking about that. Where do they get the employees so they can want to provide the service and to possibly expand the service years ago. Kids used to come in from overseas. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I remember these. Yes. That's exactly what G1 visas. And now I assume that those are very, very difficult. I would assume. Yeah. Amazing. Okay. Question. How do other real estate professionals, in your opinion, how can they prepare for, you know, this, the shifts in the market, particularly the older market that has so much equity, the frustrating for most often for the first time home buyers, how can, how can real estate professionals prepare for these markets? Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, I think it sounds so simple. Listen, be open, simply listen, let, let that client or friend just talk to you. What do they, what are they considering? What are they struggling with? Be open to that. And then I think you don't have to solve for it immediately, but you have to listen to understand what the needs are. And then you go back and try to figure out how to solve for that. So I think that, I think that's huge. I think in a more tactical way, there are various designations that you can get. So there's the SRES, the seniors real estate specialist designation, that helps you think through these things. The national association of home builders has a CAPS, a certified agent in place specialist that I did many years ago. And that's really about helping someone think about staying in their home. So I always think about, I always tell my clients reach out to me anything real estate or home related, because I'm not here just to help you sell or buy a house. I'm here to help your life in that house be better, to serve you better. And so that may be referring them to a contractor or a landscape person, but it also may be helping them think about what modifications they can make to their home that would allow them to stay there longer. Excellent. You are terrific. You know, I often say that when I became an agent, the NAR, you know, I was so nervous. I didn't know anything. I only knew, you know what I knew. I knew nothing about marketing or running a business. I had been employed at our employer for so long. And NAR did a survey. What do people want from their real estate professional? One, they want to be able to trust them. How do you trust? When you listen and you actively listen, right? Listen, trust, responsiveness, answer the call, answer the text, send the document, whatever. And the third one was expertise. So I figure if, I mean I can work on the trust and the responsiveness easily, right? I can do that and get better and better at it. And then over time the expertise will come. And because we're connectors, we're natural connectors, we find the answers. David is awesome talking to you. It is a treat to see you. And I look forward to staying connected with you. And if I ever get down to Rehoboth, I'm going to stop by that beautiful home you put together. I'd love it. I'd love it. Can I tell a quick story? Speaking of the expertise part of the three, when I first started out selling real estate, I was so worried that like it would be so obvious. I didn't know what I was doing. And I was so fearful of the question from a client, well, how long have you been doing this? And so a mentor at the time said, oh, that's easy. You just say, man, some days it feels like forever. And I did it. I said it two or three times because a lot of it was simply small talk. Like the client was just trying to engage in small talk. So when I said that, they just laughed and dropped it. So I didn't need to tell them I'd only been selling for a month. They didn't need to see your VTA. Yes. And one other thing I want to point out about David. He is a very active member of various communities in Washington, DC. And I'm sure in Delaware as well. And so that in itself is just a goldmine in the sense of getting to know people, trusting him, being willing to say, you've got to talk to David. I know you're thinking about replacing that roof and putting slate on it, but you've got to talk to David, you know, whatever. So David, congratulations. Congratulations on 14 years, almost 14 years. Congratulations on a life plan that you have. And I thank you so much for your time today. Well, thank you, Mary. It's always a joy to talk to you. And I'm so appreciative of you inviting me to be on this platform and to talk. So yes, do share it with friends and family. And we like those likes and we like those subscribes for sure. Definitely. I definitely will. Thank you so much for joining us today. And I hope you found this conversation useful to you and your real estate bowls. You'll find the contact information for guests in any links they recommend you have in the show notes. And should we be able to help you identify some strong real estate professionals in your area? Drop us a note at info at real estate connections podcast.com. Thanks again and bye for now.