The Champagne Series - Geraldine Spurway - Brand and Growth Strategist

In this second episode of The Champagne Series sponsored by Everflyht Vineyard 🥂 Brand Strategist, Powerhouse Speaker and Woman of Inspiration @geraldinespurway joined me on the podcast couch. We got honest about the realities of building businesses while caring for others, the invisible load women still carry, and why the playing field feels frustratingly uneven at times.

From hard hitting straight forward advice with no fluff to laughs and life reflections - this episode has it all.

Pour a glass, sit back and enjoy a conversation between Lucy Black @lucyblack_official and the wonder of a woman Geraldine Spurway.

This is 🎙️BrightIAM - The Champagne Series 🥂 

The Champagne Series is a bold, unfiltered podcast where powerful women
come to tell the truth and share their stories - not the polished versions, the
real ones.

Set in a beautiful, high-energy space, each conversation blends
honesty, humour, and depth as we uncover the stories behind the success, the
struggles no one saw, and the moments that changed everything. It’s a celebration of self-expression, resilience, and women who chose to do life on their own terms - with a glass of champagne (or non-alcoholic alternative) in hand and nothing held back.

Filmed at The Podcast Room Brighton

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello and welcome back to the Champagne series. This is Bright I Am. I'm Lucy Black, and I'm joined by the absolute powerhouse of a woman, Geraldine Spurway, who is a growth and brand strategist, and she's absolutely fabulous. Thank you for coming on today, darling.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Oh, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

This is such a delight. It's so lovely to have you here in Brighton, actually, because you've travelled reasonably far. It's been a bit of a train harp. Um, how long has it taken you to come down for this session today?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

So, everything combined between the tube and the train, it was just an hour and a half, which is kind of okay. When you're in London, you used to travel anyway. It was to me, it was a short ride, and it was so lovely anyway.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

It's so nice, but it it really fills my heart with joy because I've only ever met you in person once before, and we'll get to that. And it was at that bold woman conference, very fabulous event. And I saw you and you walked in, okay, onto stage. And I think you introduced yourself. And two of the things that absolutely stood out for me is first of all, you said, I'm French, and then you dropped the F bomb. And I was like, whoa, this woman in business, this entrepreneur, this fire starter, this firecracker. It's almost like everyone went, she's different, she's bright, I want to hear some more. And as we enjoyed the morning and actually listened to different parts of your story, I can't tell you how inspired I was. So thank you for coming here today. I think maybe a really good way to start here is for you to tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, where you come from, how did you get to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

So thank you so much for that feedback because there was actually a story around the F-word. I had promised myself that I will not say it on stage. But I think this F word is actually what really expressed the emotion. Yeah. And it just came naturally. And in my in my head, I was like, fuck, I said it again. And then people came to me saying, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna start swearing on stage. I was like, really? And they were like, Oh yeah, this is so sexy when you say it. I was like, oh, yeah, then I kept saying it, right? You know, I'm gonna keep saying it. Um, so the aparte, um, my story. Um, I'm French, as you can hear, never gonna lose the accent. I've been in London 16 years, and I arrived by really total unexpected, unexpected um story, meaning that I was never meant to be in London. I had a very successful career in Monaco. Um, before that, I was working in the luxury hospitality, organizing private party for um luxury establishment in Monaco. And prior to that, I was working in a small town in the southwest of France in digital marketing and tech. I was leading a digital agency. Um and my initial background is um setting up events in Cannes in the south of France, organizing the most glamorous decadent parties for the film festival. And I was never meant to come to London. Uh, if anything, when I was in Monaco, I was so bored of Monaco, I was like, I just want to leave. And my mind was into Miami. I was like, I'm leaving, I'm gonna go to Miami. But at that time, I had just broken up with my boyfriend, and I was so heartbroken. I was like, I'm going to Miami, I'm going to Miami. So I had decided to leave my job. And then during one of the events, the Monaco Yacht Show in Monaco, I met a dude who was really not my kind of dude, um, but who pursued me and he was from London, and then he became my husband. And that's how I arrived in London.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

How interesting. You know, this came up on the last session I had with uh Mandy Smith, Captain Fever author. How these men come into our lives and actually change the trajectory and the tracks and our plans. This happens quite a lot.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Like, absolutely. I I never thought I would come to London. Um, if anything, I came to London with one suitcase, half of it was full of shoes. That's really all I had. And I was like, no, I'm keeping my car, I'm never gonna stay in London. And it's been 16 years.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Wow. Well, I'm really pleased. I'm pleased he came to London. Good. Thank you. So, what happened once you moved to London? You and you moved to Fulham, is where you you've been living.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

So I moved to Fulham the first year, was a disaster because I wasn't speaking very good English. So um interviewing as a French person was really tough. I remember being taught by Head Hunter that I need to be more expressive and show more um enthusiasm when applying for jobs. And I was like, well, in front, we're very reserved. We're not supposed to show off. And they were like, Well, how can we know if you like the job if you're not showing off? So I remember watching YouTube how to talk and how to speak, and rehearsing, being like, I love it, amazing. I would rehearse how to talk like an English person, and being like, you should work with me because I am so good at that. So I literally had to create a character in order to land my first ever job. Um, and so I started in the hospitality because this is what I knew, developing the market for um a company setting up events in Cannes. Um, it was a terrible experience. I was being bullied. Um, it left me really heartbroken having to do speech training because she kept humiliating me in front of everyone, saying, we can't understand when you speak. Wow, that's really hard. It was really hard. So one day I left, took three months off over the summer, and then applied again, found a job in tech, um, in public transport, opening the French market for a company uh who was selling a fleet telematic solution, uh, which was absolutely not my field, but I was um I was a salesperson. The owner would just clicked. I absolutely adore her. She became my best friend and to this day still is my best friend. And I guess it completely changed my life in London because London can be really hard when you arrive. You don't speak very good the language, you have no friends. It is hard.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

There's a lot of um barriers there, isn't there? There's a lot of barriers. I mean, and I've I've got friends, I've got a lovely friend Ross, who's um Italian, Swiss Italian, and she's spoken to me about how much harder it is for women who are here, and I suppose men as well, but this is a space for women only, um, and how you have to overcome extra barriers if you've not got the native language.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, there's a lot of um misconception about London is exciting, you're gonna go out, you're gonna meet people, uh, you're gonna make friends for life. But actually, if you don't know anyone and if you're not ready to put yourself out there, it is very, very difficult to build that network. And I remember the first ever friend I made, I joined a meetup, you know, a meetup. And it was a meetup for women. And I remember coming back, the first ever meetup, I came back home and I was crying. I was like, I don't like any of the girls, I can't relate to any of that, it's awful. Um and then I decided to do it again. And I did it again, and I met this crazy German girl, and we we were in Nottingh, we didn't like any of the other women, so we escaped the meetup and we ended up partying in the until the middle of the night at the place which was called the Globe in Nottinghal. And this woman is still one of my best friends. She now lives in India and she's amazing. So that between her and the boss, we became both very close to me. I think it gave me the confidence I needed to love London, to grow within London, to feel confident enough to believe that I belonged here and I could build things here.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

And you can make it a home.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

So have you found that throughout your time since being in London, that the community, the people you surround yourself with make you feel at home, make you feel like you can achieve?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, 100%. And it's especially nowadays where everything is happening online and with the rise of AI, I couldn't emphasize it's or could encourage it more to anyone else out there building a business or or trying to grow within their career, to try to network. And honestly, I don't like networking. I have an introvert personality and I don't like small talk. And I find it very boring to say who you are, what you do, and what you want to achieve in a two-minute chat conversation. However, if you do it intentionally in the kind of room that are expensive and also expansive, sorry, and also that are um within your field or within what you love, I could you know that we've always been the one person that that's gonna change your life or change your trajectory or it can become a collaboration, someone who's gonna really change the way you keep moving forward in your business, in your life, because you will click, you will connect. So that's why I keep doing it, I keep networking, even though it's not my thing, because you never know who you're gonna meet up on this journey. And where they're gonna take you.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

And I think that you're you've hit the nail on the head there. That there's a lot behind the screen now, isn't there? On our phone, on our computers, in chat rooms, on Zoom. There is nothing like getting in front of somebody else and talking and having a real and feeling the energy. So, energy, this is this is a great topic for you. You feel like the best energy in town, okay? You you have from the first time I met you. Tell me about how you feel that works in business and in your life, because there's more to life than just what's going on in words, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah, so energy, I I've always said energy is my strategy. I fell in the magic pot when I was a little girl, my grandmother was a psychic healer, my parents were both Reiki Master, and I was attuned to Reiki when I was only eight. Right. So I've always worked with energy. Now you really have to be very conscious about the energy that you put out there. Taking my example, I can be very full-on and neurodivergent, obviously. You you know, it could be a little bit off-putting for some people, like, oh, she's so high-bed. And then on another hand, I can be a little bit reserved, observing, not really willing to mingle. So depending on the room where you are um finding yourself into, it's very much about reading the room and grounding yourself before. So let's say you're coming to an event which is an hour from London, and you have been running and you nearly miss your train, and you arrive there and you're sweating, and you're just like this is not the right energy to bring into the room. So I always recommend you go into the toilet, you do the tree. So you put your hands up, you try, you channel and you shake to ground yourself and to reconnect and to take some deep breath because the energy that you're gonna uh show when you walk into this room is the first thing people are gonna pick up on.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yes, even if they don't believe it to be true, the energy is real, and it is the first thing. And they they say you have like a couple of seconds to make a first impression and energy is the first thing that arrives.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, and this is what I do when I'm on stage. I I I used to remember the first um events I was doing, I used to be a little bit like a showwoman. Hello everyone! Yeah, and then looking at this video, I was like, oh, it's a little bit, you know, it's a little bit too much. Does it really show who you are? So now when I walk on stage, I I purposely don't speak and I read the room. And why do I do that? Because it forces them to be quiet, yes, and to lean in. And to lean in. Yes, and then once they are ready to receive, I introduce myself. But it could it took some trial and errors to get there though. And then, yeah, actually, this is not working. This is not how you want to be seen. So you're gonna have to work on that. But that's not necessarily my natural makeup.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

So, in order for me to walk with this queen energy, I have to grind myself, I have to rethink and I have to be like, I embody that main character. This is me for the next 45 minutes. And I have to do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

I love that. And you know what's so interesting, what you've just said there, and and part of this series is to explore dynamics and different behaviors that women do who have become successful, who continue to make magic in the world, but you've had to look back at videos of yourself on screen and you've said, I don't like it. Not, oh, it's terrible. I must stop. I can't do this anymore. I don't like it, so I'm gonna improve it. And I I mean, I certainly believe, and I'm sure you're the same, that in this entrepreneurial world, you have to re-educate yourself and reinvent yourself time and time over again. And actually, you have to sometimes break it right down and then rebuild from the ground up.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

So tell me, how did you get into your brand strategist and growth strategist role? Uh, completely by mistake.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I I've been working in running all my life, running digital agencies, but I was part of the sales team, running the sales team and working with the marketing team. So obviously, in order to hook the client, you had to share a vision for them. And then the marketing team or the strategy team would deliver. The one of the last roles that I had, I was an associate director in a digital agency. And when I left that role, I said, I will never, ever, ever work again in marketing. Did I fail? Of course. It was like a bad spell that I was putting out there. Um, so I set my business up three months before COVID. Wow. Okay. I remember setting up my business and I wanted to do leadership development for men, exclusively for men, to teach men how to be a better manager, to allow women to have a voice in the boardroom, because being in an environment mostly men dominated, sure didn't have voice. And so first client that I signed within a month of setting up my business was um to run an exclusive retreat in the south of France for 22 CEO for a big brand, but I priced 5k, really. I mean, like I had no idea. Um and then I was about to like literally sending the contract, and I will always remember sending the contract and the CEO calling me from Paris and telling me, Geraldine, we can't do the retreat. There's these things happening COVID, you know. Of course. And I was like, fuck, what am I gonna do? And so I had to reinvent myself. I was like, I don't even know what I'm gonna do. So I set up a Facebook group for months describing the journey of working and setting up a business at the same time as entertaining your child. And as I was putting this content out there, people started to reach out to me and to tell me, can you help me set up my business online? And I was like, sure. I was like, I had no idea. So I started hiring freelancer. I was running clandestine photo shoot in my home with my photographer because remember, we couldn't go out. Yes. So it was clandestine photo shoot and helping people set up their brand and their website. That's what I was doing. And I was like, you know, it was really odd. In the morning, I was uh being a teacher for my daughter, and came 12 p.m., my husband would take over, and I would literally became the businesswoman. And so it was very, very successful, but I absolutely hated it.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

That's not what I wanted to do. So you found something that was um bringing in revenue, but it wasn't touching your purpose.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

No, I said I would never do marketing again, and here I am doing marketing and doing it for everybody else, setting everybody else up. Yeah, yeah. She's like, I don't want to do this. And then I started working with an American coach and I was like, I don't want to do website, I don't like it. And she was like, What if you only do what you love? What would you do? And I was like, I just want to work on the story, I want to work on their positioning, I want to elevate them, I want to do the photo shoot, the video shoot, and and help them elevate their brand, but I don't want to do website. And she said, so why don't you do that? And I said, No one will ever pay that amount of money just for my rent. And she said, try it. And I tried it. And a woman said yes, paid in full. And I was like, it was 15k for six months paid in full. And this was without the boring bit, without all the website malarking, just messaging, positioning, uh, identity, um, recalibration. It's brilliant. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

So she must have felt seen by you and understood. And that is actually a very rare skill to have. She must have really seen that you saw her vision.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And she exploded. I remember initially, initially, that's not totally true. Initially, she signed up for 3K for my group program. That's all she had left in a bank account. And I said to her, look, we're going to work before the group program. I'd like you to bring some cash in your business before that. So we went onto LinkedIn. Uh, we scrapped her profile, and within two weeks of working together, she landed a 30k corporate contract. So she said, Right, I don't give, I really don't care about your group program. I'm, I want to join your one-to-one. I said, fine. So we upgraded from 3K to 15k. She joined my one-to-one.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And then within another two months, she brought 50K. And within nine months of working together, we she brought 100k. So which was incredible. Yeah. But that was all without a website. It was all about doing what I said I wanted to do, what was my zone of genius, and with very little cost, to be honest with you, because just me, myself, and my brain. Yeah, good. And how valuable is that?

SPEAKER_02 18:06

And that's been her in 100k in that in that one. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I know, I know. And actually, talking on LinkedIn, I follow you on LinkedIn. I know we're connected there. I saw a post this week and it really resonated with me. I think I did comment on your posts. And you were talking about how we have these values. And I mean, I know you have so much value there. And you're often being asked for things from people. And actually, you've probably had this season in your life where you've given connections, advice, time, energy, direction, it all away. And that really does resonate with me. And I mean, we can move on and talk more about me another time. But tell me how you've come to this point now where actually you kind of need to guard this important part of yourself that should be being charged for, really.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

So it happens um two years ago, really. The shift, but the implementation is only happening now. Right. Imagine six years running a business. I am a giver. And I really love expanding people and making people successful. And so I kept giving away because uh my time. And because I I channel and you know, I'm very I'm I'm psychic and I challenge on the spot, and I can't help it. When it's coming, I have to share it. But I didn't get much in return. And I said much, it means nothing. Okay. And so it left me feeling very desought and very used. And why am I doing this? Why am I keep why do I keep putting myself in this position where people book a call, I get so much value, and then nothing is happening. Why do I do this to myself? And I understood it was because I was still playing the good girl. The good girl wants to be loved, who needs um approval and with things that she needs to give in order to receive. When actually being successful in business means to be a bad bitch. And I really weigh my word when I say this. You know, the good girl energy, the match happy ladder girl, she's gonna get a lot of lights, she's gonna get a lot of follow, but she's not gonna climb the ladder. She's not gonna be the one making the millions.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

The bad bitch with the inaccessible who opened the door to people who deserve her time and energy, is the one who's actually making the millions. So one of my clients was a millionaire, like a millionaire. And he told me, I want you to take me to the billion. And as a joke, I said to him, okay, if I take you to the billion, I want to cut the deal. But I never put it in writing. I got him to the billion. And I started being very reasonable. I was like, oh my gosh, I should have done it. But anyway, in return for that, I said, look, I'd love to really do sit with you that you can spend the time working with me, or what you think is my uh USP. What do you think is special about me? So like a mentorship. Yeah. And so it's been incredible. He told me the first thing is you can talk to anyone in the room. We could you you are you can talk to anyone. I've seen you everywhere in every network. I was like, yeah, good, good feedback. And the second thing is, he said, and you think like a man. I thought, well, I don't know if this is good. He said, Yeah. Because you literally understand men so well. And guess who is running the show most of the time? It's men. Yeah. So when you thought when you shared this with me, I I was like, I'm not sure how to really work with it. This is great feedback, but how do I work with this? And he didn't give me the clue, he just said, You really have to monetize your time and make yours make yourself less accessible.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yeah, because people don't value you if you're everywhere all the time. Absolutely. And the more you do, and I've had this in a in a business arrangement in the last six years, the more you do and you run around and you do it and you make it great and you do it and you pick up everyone else's pieces, the more they expect you to do. So then when you do pull back. Then you're not the good girl, you're the baddie. Anyway, so you might as well start as that badass. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yes, Geraldine. I love it. So this is what I did. And I've never said no more than in the last two years. Good. People contacting me for collab, contacting me for this, for that. And I'm looking and I'm like, I don't like your brand. I don't like what you're doing. Why do I want to do this? However, I've mentored very young people, you know, as you know, for free because I believe that at this stage in our lives, we're here to pass the light and to help the new generation, and particularly particularly for me, women, it's better. So I do this with all my heart because I want to be the person that I wish I had found when I was starting in my journey.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

But all the other brand pickers, the can I have a coffee with you? Can we like so I'm literally saying, I'm sorry, but my my time right now is focused on my client, my prospective client, yeah, and my family. That's it. And if you don't intend to work with me in some capacity, I'm really sorry, but I don't have time for coffee chat. Um, but it took me all that long to identify that time is money and it's the most valuable currency that you never you never get back.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah, you're never gonna get that time back. And the energy, we have a um, I forget what it's called, some kind of bias. You can only make a certain amount of decisions in a day. Yeah. So whether that's how you're gonna wear your hair, what clothes you're putting on, what time train you're gonna get on, what um move you're gonna make in business, strategy, life. There's a certain amount of decisions and thinking capacity. So if you're giving out to everyone else, you're actually saying yes to them and no to yourself. Yeah. And part of this series in an area we're exploring is can we as women have it all? Now you look to me like a woman who's got it all. I've heard the um husband word, I've heard daughter, fabulous, love a daughter, um, business owner, you're gorgeous, you're glamorous, you're in demand. Have there been times in your life where you felt you've struggled to hold it all together to have it all? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Behind the glamorous Instagram or the very glossy LinkedIn, I've had my share of failures more than you could imagine. Sorry. I've already experienced at Sun 48 to burnout, and I didn't understand what it meant. You know, you always think, oh, burnout, it's just you're just a little bit depressed. No, burnout is literally when you're physically in bed and you cannot leave your bed, you cannot eat, you cannot have a shower, you can't do anything, you just have lost the little light, and you just don't want to leave anymore. This is something that is breaking you apart. And yeah, marriage, relationship, to marriage, I mean, I mean, like breakdown in your personal relationship, yeah, okay, which sucked the life out of me. Um, and during that time, I had to keep showing up. I had to pretend everything was fine and that I was holding it. And I remember it was actually last year. Um, I was running three events. I was invited to speak at three events, and one of them was in France um in June, and it was one of the one of the first ever time I was gonna do what I do in French. I'm used to run it in English, funny enough. And I remember saying to my best friend just before being on stage, he was there, and I was like, I don't think I can do it. I think I'm gonna break. I do not think I can do it. Oh, okay. And actually, when I went on the stage and I had 400 women in front of me, and it was incredible, I think I healed myself. Yeah, so there was actually a power in going both ways. Yeah. Beautiful. It was just, I remember when when when I put at the end, I got half of these women on stage with me, and I turned this a huge theater into a massive rave. It was just incredible. And I think there were four or five women who came and said, You've healed trauma that I've kept hidden in me for so long. Wow. And so I was like, Thank you. You've just healed me. You've just like you, you gave me permission to just let go. And so when I said I I didn't think I could do it, I did it, but I also grew out of this. I was like, you know, you just have to keep going, yeah, and you never know how you're gonna get onto the next level. But I always say with um how do you say that every thoughts create your um emotions, yes? Your emotions are gonna define the next action that you're gonna take. So the more you move, the more you're gonna be able to take the further action. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah, and you've got to get into those rooms. So had you decided that you didn't want to get up onto that stage that day, you wouldn't have been held healed. They wouldn't have held that energy, and you wouldn't think you'll be able to get on the next stage. And uh, I mean, I've I've got a degree in psychology, but I'm no um psychiatrist. But there are times when you do, in life, I think as a woman, have to push yourself that extra, extra step. And it's nice to hear that that worked out well, actually, because sometimes you hear people push themselves too much and they completely burn out, but in the right space.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yes. Yeah, but also going back to you know, a lot of failure. Um, there have been months in my business when I wasn't making any money. Yes. And I felt like a total failure because I've had a very successful start of my business during COVID. And people were complaining. I was like, well, actually, I'm doing so well. I didn't want to say because it was, I was making so much money. I was like, oh, thank God I left corporate. And then, like every time in every season in business, there's a moment where there is what I call the desert void where the universe is going to challenge you. Nothing is working, no clients are coming, everything you used to do is falling apart. And you're just like, okay, what am I doing now? What is happening? And actually, this is usually just before a big quantum big quantum leap. So the bigger the loss, the bigger the leap. But you have to be very resilient and very patient to believe and trust that something is gonna happen. So, what do you do? Do you stop or do you keep going? Well, you can do both. You have to pause to allow yourself to ease your nervous system so you're not in fire or flight mode to really manage your energy and your frequency. But it doesn't mean that you burn a candle, you meditate, and you write letters to the universe every day and you wait for the universe to deliver. You have to plant the seeds and you have to keep watering the bloody flower, even though the flower is not growing. And this is really, really hard to do because you're just like, oh, until when? Until when? And suddenly the flower is starting, and you start, oh, this is going back. And then another flower, and then another flower. And so, you know, to all the people who will be watching this and wondering, oh, it's great to be an entrepreneur, it's great to live your nine to five. Don't fall into the trap because it's bloody hard work. You have to have cash flow on the side in order to last the cadence. You have to be ready to this time, the desserts period where nothing is happening and you can't predict them. You just happen. I know, and I agree. Yeah. And you're just like, what do I do? Am I giving up? Did I do that for nothing?

SPEAKER_02 29:31

And people on the outside, Jodine, have you had this? So I've got um, I don't come from an entrepreneur background. My family have never done it, so I'm the first. But I have um my family members and friends, they may say, Oh, how's it going? I say, Well, it's a bit tough. I haven't, you know, like you say, a bit of a gap in the money, a bit of a gap in direction. Oh, we'll just get a job. Yeah, it's it's so hard, isn't it? Because if they're telling you to get a job, you can kind of almost think, oh, well, maybe I should sensibly go and get a job. But you know about those seeds that have been planted and you know you're still watering them, like you say daily. And we know in business that not all of them will bloom. Some of them will never grow. Yeah. But if you've got them and you're caring for those ones and you're keeping your mind open, the opportunities are there, then something can grow and it will be. But it's a bit of a risk, isn't it? It's a risky life. It's not um, it's not all sunshine, is it? I know, I know. People from the outside. How interesting. And what about your daughter then? Is she somebody who would like to go into business for herself? Has she been inspired by you, her mum?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Oh, she's a total baddie, she's only 11, and she's already launched three businesses.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Has she I love that?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Literally, I'm not kidding. So she's always known she wanted to be uh an interior designer, right? But with engineering thing, because she likes to build things. And last year we were um in Cambasan on the beach, and so uh it was only the bit, you know, gloomy weather. And so just before going on the beach, she was we had a little friends at home for a few days with her, and they came to me. They had, you know, a tray, and they had set up so many things like pearls, um, bracelet that they had done. They had cut some tag with the pricing on it. Lovely. And they were like, we're gonna sell them on the beach. I was like, okay, let's go. So I took them um on the beach, and it was quite sad because no one has cash anymore. No, that's right. So they would go to people, which was pure sales. Go to people, offer to, you know, to um to sell the bracelet and everything. And people were like, Oh, we don't have any cash, we don't have any cash. So we they came back being very sad, you know, no one is buying, no one is buying. And I said to them, you have to keep going, you have to keep going. So they kept going. They made maybe two sales, and then at the end they were like, What are we gonna do about all of that? And I said, You give away, you just give away, we're gonna we're gonna give away. So then there were three little girls. I said, just give away to the little girl, it's gonna be lovely. So that was one business. The second business was like, I can't remember what, oh yeah, she was doing some sort of um with paper, some fake nails that she was selling at school in exchange for suites. Oh, okay. Literally, like a bargaining suites for her thing. Like so, yeah. So I don't think she's ever, ever gonna work for anyone because she said to me, I'm never gonna work for someone because I want to make my own money. How interesting. And I'm like, oh hopefully, hopefully, you know, your job is still gonna exist with with AI, you know, because you don't know where it's going.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

There is a problem with this, isn't there? And actually, I read on um, I think I was on Instagram this morning, it might be LinkedIn, that um Microsoft has sacked or asked for people to take an early retirement. 6,000 people. Oh, it's so sad, it's so sad. And all of those roles, these are like 200 grand a year roles, are being done now by AI. Yeah. And Microsoft, who, I mean, they've got co-pilot, they've got all that. If they are sacking their workers who created, helped to create the AI, there is a real concern for our young people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah. Yeah, I'd I'd say to me, go back into the jobs that nobody wants. You know, the jobs like hairdresser, butter, plumber. Yes. That's the job, that electrician, that are never gonna be replaced by AI. So get yourself in a space where you can actually develop some soft skills, but also practical skills. Because right now I really have no idea what's gonna happen. But also I feel there's gonna be a shift, like if it keeps going up, like we see it in marketing. Even myself, I used to usually have a web designer to do my website, charging me 2.5k. Yeah, and when I launched my retreat lately, I was like, I don't want to pay two and a half K for a website promoting my retreat. So I went on to Claude. Yeah, it took me three days of pulling my hair in every direction, but I published my own website. Yeah, and I was first of all super proud of myself, and then I was like, this is very scary. This is very scary because I'm really not techie, like I'm really not someone who likes to do that. But I did it, and I was like, so many jobs disappearing. So I don't know, there's a way where we're gonna have to figure out how to embrace the change in a way that is beneficial for us. But I'd say to me, it's about adopting AI in order to in order to improve um the efficiency of your operation. But what I would really value is I had a conversation with a dude in the US and he has an AA company. And what I really like about his business model is that it actually uses AI to create jobs. So if everyone could do that, yeah, how wonderful would that be?

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting one, and I think personal brand as well, and obviously in the world of work that you're in, Geraldine, no one can replace this. Yeah, like this. And you show up on screens, on stages, on socials as authentically yourself, which is so powerful. And you're embracing that lovely French accent and you're saying the fucking fuck word now and then, and I love it, it's liberating to say it here with you. But AI can't do that, it can't be authentic and a person. So if there's somebody who's maybe starting up in business right now and they're listening to this discussion, would you recommend putting your authentic self across as your personal brand? Is that a piece of advice you would give? Yes and no.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Okay. Because I see so many people believing that they have to be their most authentic self in order to create a brand. It's called personal brand for a reason. But there's an edge to it. You're not supposed to wash your dirty land. Yeah. And you're not supposed to show everything in order to grow your audience. So if you want to be an influencer, you can show everything and anything, but most influencer, unless if represented by agent or PR company, are broke. Yes. So this is not a business model I would recommend today. Do not become an influencer unless you have a very good marketing strategy in order to do very um thoughtful partnership with big brands. Because brands and company, I was reading this morning that a visiting company had an influencer in order to grow their social media presence. So they have a space, but you have to be very targeting in the way you want to do this. Then on the other end, building your personal brand in order to um grow your business has to be done in a very specific, meaningful way. People buy from people they can relate to. So you have to really understand your audience, what we call your ICP, your ideal customer persona. Because if you let's let's say, for example, for example, when I started my personal brand on LinkedIn, I had no idea I was building a personal brand. I just wanted to show up. Um and I was like, okay, I'm putting food content out there. But I wanted people to understand, because we didn't have AI three years ago. So sometimes I would make spelling mistakes. So I wanted people to be uh kind to me for my mistakes, and I couldn't say at every post, I am French, please apologize. You know, I do apologize, my mistakes because I'm French. So my way to show that I was French was to put a croissant emoji at every post and to put every Sunday a picture of me eating a croissant. Literally every Sunday. And this is how the croissant story started, which I actually blew up on LinkedIn because all the people who've been following me from the beginning of the journey, everywhere they travel, they send me a picture of them with a croissant. Oh, it's so super cute. So over time, it left a little bit, but it was very much part of my strategy. I've never said, oh, I'm gonna use croissant as part of my strategy. I just wanted to reinforce the fact that I was French. Yes. I could make mistakes when I speak, be kind to me, because this is actually not my natural language.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

But then I started building up um, you know, the marketing side, but I wanted people to understand that I'm not your normal strategist. I am psychic, I'm a healer, I'm obsessed with neuroscience, and I wanted that part of my business to really show up. So I would drip fit visual vision or picture or video of me doing my wellness event, one of the ones you met me. I not be and I wanted them to understand I am not just a yoga teacher. Yeah, I just do that as well, you know. So when you build your personal brand, you have to be very clear about who you want to work with. I knew there were some risks that people would associate me with just being a wellness girl. Yeah, too woo-woo.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Can you be too woo-woo?

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Yeah, yeah. Correct. And this is why I mix and match. I'm the one who can completely show up on LinkedIn barefoot, like I did today, um, yoga pants, but then you're gonna see a powerful video of me running a corporate event for a tech brand. Because they are two sides of the story. So building your brands means that you have to be very conscious of who you want to work with, what you want from them. Do you want to work one-to-one? Do you want to do some collaboration partnership? Do you want them to invest in your business? And once you have defined that, you need to make sure that you embrace that main character energy that you know is gonna match what they are looking for. So sometimes it means that you're gonna have to play a little bit out of your comfort zone, but not every entrepreneur is gonna make it out there. And if you want to be one of them, you're gonna have to stretch yourself up until the edge to make sure that you actually can get to where you want to be. I love that. That's such great advice.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

It's fabulous. It really is. Um, so your plans for this year, then, Geraldine, looking in your um next, say, six, twelve months, um, I know you do your breath work classes as well. I mean, they're fabulous. Perhaps just um tell people who are listening to this broadcast what that's about and how that fits into you and your your life.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

So I I didn't like breath work at first. Um, I thought it was very boring, and I still believe it is very boring to breathe in and out. Um, and maybe because I'm I have an overactive brain, it didn't really work on me. So I couldn't really understand what was the f about. But three years ago, breath work completely changed my life. Um when maybe four years ago now, yeah, because I had COVID. And two weeks later, I woke up in the middle of the night having a download telling me that I needed to go to the hospital and I will see I will never see my daughter again.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

And what happened is that I had my appendix had exploded. So I went to the hospital on my own during COVID because you couldn't, no one could bring you there. In a time where you knew where you were getting in a hospital, you never know whether you'll be out.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

And I haven't I couldn't see a doctor. I waited over nearly 72 hours, I think, to see someone. And at this stage, I remember messaging my mom and saying, This is the end, I'm dying. Like I could, I could feel myself, you know, leaving my body. And so they put me in a room eventually on my own, and I was freezing to death because I at this stage it was very, very bad. And they closed the door and it was dark, a single room, and I was like, they forgot about me. There was no doctors, it was terrible. I was like, they forgot about me. This is how I'm gonna die, it's awful. And so I literally had nothing in me left other than breathing. So what I did is I started to breathe in and out and to visualize myself on my favorite place in the world, which is the beach. And I was literally talking talking to myself, pure hypnosis. I'm on the beach, I can feel the sun on my skin, breathing in, breathing out. And then I started to pray. I said, God, if I ever, ever make it, I promise that I will change the word with breath work. If I ever make it, I will change the word. And then I can't tell you how long it took for a doctor to come in and to open the door and they were like, quick, quick, quick, emergency, like I was rushed to ER. So when I woke up, I was like, I promised I will change the world. So this is how I decided to create my own method, which is resense breath work, which is a reconnection of all our senses, the way uh the eye, the smell, the taste, um, the touch, a physical touch. And so I've created a very bespox session that I'm now running as immersive experience, which is the one you tried. Um and it's literally about using the power of your breath, but also the power of hypnosis to fire your neuropathway and to rewrite, rewrite, sorry, the outdated playlist that we've been having on a loop since we were seven years old, to replace it by powerful um new story, new belief that invite you to take intuitive action. And so I'm not running classes, I mostly do festival, corporate events, um immersive experience, private event for um high net worth individuals. And I think this is very intentional because to me it's a very sacred space. Sure. And I really want people to be ready for that shift when they come into my world. It's very shamanic. And I think if I were to run classes, I would dilute the magic a little bit. So my strategy is really recent breathwork is really about a pure activating shift where I absolutely love what I do, but it's never going to be the full story, it's just Like the lead magnet, or you know, the top of the funnel. Um, this is yet what I'm known for, but that's not what the business is all about.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

It's so interesting. And I think people who maybe wouldn't expect to be part of a breath work session like yours, maybe um they're signed up to it, say from their boss, and they go and they think, oh, here we go. I found it very enlightening, and I found that it did almost open something up in me, which has made me want to explore that deeper. So actually, that is life-changing work and keying into your intuition in life as a woman, and I think in business is absolutely key. I got reached out to um uh end of last week with somebody who wants to work with me, and all my red, all my energies went off, all my alarms were going off. Come in and bid me a bit low on some project, and I've just said no. Because I'm learning more and more now in business and in life to trust that, trust how I feel, how something making you feel? And I think in breath work, it kind of opens up and expands the space for that to be possible. Yeah. So over the next 12 months, then, Geraldine, where where's your business going and what are you looking to do? Who are you looking to attract? What kind of clients would you like to work with? What are your plans?

SPEAKER_00 45:17

So I've officially decided that I'm gonna take a step on running a pose, sorry, on running retreats.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Okay, because you're known, you're very well known. They're very popular, your retreats, but you've you've said enough now with that, and you're looking into other ventures.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yes, so I've run 22, and the last one is at the end of the month in Switzerland. Right. And I have realized I have outgrown that identity. I'm no longer the retreat woman. I can do it eyes closed. And if anything, I thought maybe I'm gonna run some sort of digital product, of course, to help those women starting and who want to win their retreat, and we can't afford my one-to-one and give them everything, and they just can run with it. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, but I was just like, do I like it? Yes, but I'm I'm already gone, I'm already onto the next level. And when I made that decision, which was last weekend running my last retreat, I was like, oh my gosh, this is fucking amazing, because this is leaving so much space for something else.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

So the next step for me is really going back to the first very initial mission uh for when I set up the spareway, which was changing the world in corporate and making space for more women to have a voice.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

And it's literally like a full circle. It's literally, you know, having this high-level conversation where we can open up the space for more women to come for more, you know, women going through perimenopause. No one has a clue what it does to you. And we, you know, women going back after um having had a baby, these kind of things. But just not because I think if I were just to work with corporate, I'd be very bold because the system is a little bit corrupted to me. So I feel it's about bringing all this knowledge about branding and resilience and mindset work into this unique space where people are looking to accelerate growth, just not from a branding perspective, but from a mindset and energetic perspective. Because to me, you can have the best marketing in the world, the best PR team in the world, but if you show up with an energy that is not yours, you know, you copied your mentor or whoever, it is not gonna work. So you have to really understand what is your unfair advantage, what is your unique skill that you want to bring into this world to really um bring people into your community, into your space, into your program, into whatever you're creating. Um, so that's why to me the next step would be really making sure that I identify the best way to promote my work, but being very clear, and it's not niching because I don't believe in niching, but being very clear on the fact that it encompasses everything around branding and energy work, and this is how I help my people grow and scale. Oh, it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

And I really love what you're saying there with women, and I think that's we've got we're a particular niche, if you like, because we do have all of these holdups, roadblocks, stumbling blocks that men don't. I mean, I had years out of the workplace. So for me to come back in, to get back into a work-paid work environment, then to build and to grow, there's this big gap. People see it, they can see it on your CV, they ask you about it, you know, and you've also got that time to make up. Like everything I do, I do really fast. And then Perry Menoports, I mean, we're both in our 40s here. All of a sudden, the brain gets a bit cloudy. Yeah. Like bit? I mean, are you assuming you had to pop home to make sure you didn't leave your curlers on today? Yeah. But these things slow us down. Now, if a corporate, a big organization who values their stuff can see the benefits of having wonderful women working for them, because let's face it, we're the best. Um, we're totally up. But they need to support their workers, and it's also through um big life shifts. Um, I've been divorced as well, and I remember trying to balance that time children, divorce, work, identity, all of these shifts. So really making sure your women workers are supported, understood, their values are met and looked after.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Man, that is such good business. Yeah, and and to be honest, I think there's a misconception right now between being a feminist and being a woman advocate. I am so not a feminist. I want a man to open the door for me, yes, to pull the chair, and to make me feel like a woman. Because when I run my business, I'm very much in my masculine energy, which is the boss pace, baby, but the badass beach. When I'm at home, I want to be in my masculine. I want to in my feminine sorry, I want to be able to receive, to lean back. And so there are so many women out there who are just really turning this kind of feminine movement around. We hate men. We it's just about women empowerment. Completely disagree with that. I love having men in my events. I love putting men on stage amongst women. There's amazing, beautiful men who are women advocates who are doing incredible things for a lot of us. In fact, I know so many women, we have amazing businesses because the partner, the husband, the investors are all men believing in their mission. Good. And so I feel what an amazing thing it is to actually change the mentality around the narrative and giving men space to be themselves without being intimidated by all these women who are taking too much of a space, being too much in the masculine and making, you know, a little bit of a balance, you know, in every relationship, men need to be able to be in the masculine and then in the feminine, you know, to give and take. So I think we've if we were allowed as business owners to tap into both energies, as opposed to just always being on, on, on, on, on, how beautiful would that be?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah, and learning enough through these kind of um sessions and breath work and coaching to know and recognize in yourself that you're coming in and you're in that masculine energy, you know, because I can be quite guilty of that. I'm like a power in a house. But actually, when I go into my house, okay, take it down a notch now because it's just me and my teenagers at home. And then you know, you you can rub them up the wrong way very quickly. But what I personally find, I don't know if you've got any animals, Geraldine. Oh, you do. I love my dog, I know, and I've I've recently got another puppy as well. But they soften me, and I find myself coming, oh hello, you know, and that's really good, and I feel that in my heart. That softens me, that brings me back to my feminine stance, if you like.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

This is such a good this is something you should write about it. You should actually write on LinkedIn about it because there's a massive thing on LinkedIn at the moment where everyone is popping video and stories with dogs. I'm obsessed with dogs. I love dogs, and I have one myself. And this is true because with her, I speak with that weird voice oh the voice specificness, and then I'm like, why I caught myself the other day being like, why am I so cute with her? And why am I so hard on my doctor? My daughter, and I was like, I give so much kisses, so many kisses to the dog. Yeah, like you know, they're just amazing, energy. And then you're just like the the teenager, they also need it, but you just give less. Yeah, and so I purposely lately, I've been, it's been a month or so, reconnecting with cuddle and kisses with my daughter, and she's actually loving it because I was like, oh my gosh, I give everything to the bloody dog. And nothing to, I mean, nothing to the child, it's all about doing your homework, do this and do that. And you know, it's quite it's quite difficult for them as well to always be in the how do you say, in the performing role as a child. And and you should write about this because really the dog, they make they make us think so much softer.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

Oh, it's so it's my soft side. And actually, my son said to me last night, because I always tuck the dogs in downstairs, I say none night, and they get a little treat, and then they get the little blanket on, and then the puppy's like this, where he is, she gets a little blanket on her head and she's looking like this, and I give her a kiss, and I come up and my son, who's a boy, she's gonna deep now. You when you love them dogs more than you love me, is what he said. There you go. There we go. So he's there, yeah, yeah. But he won't let me touch him. I have to chase him to try and get a cuddle. Really? Yeah, oh, they go all funny, the boys in the teens. Yeah, I have to trick him into it, just get him on the side. Um, anyway, we are running out of time. I'm terrible for this, and I've got some questions to ask you. Okay. So, part of the champagne series is really just kind of elevating the next generation of women. And we spoke about this earlier, these younger women, these powerhouse women who are starting up, and it's kind of like giving them a little bit of a not a free pass, but a little bit of extra advice that we wish we had had. So, is there a truth about your life, Geraldine, that most people would never guess? Is there something about you in your life that people would say, oh, I wouldn't have known that?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Yeah, that I'm a psychic and I'm literally starting honouring that. Um, that I and it and it's a gift I I've I haven't really consciously um manifested and I didn't really own it for a very long time. But when I sit in front of someone and I've suddenly all the things that come to me and I have to share them, um, but it doesn't always come like I couldn't be like a full-time psychic, people paying me to predict the future. But it's really, really helping me a lot in my business, and that's why my clients explode because I really I see, I see exactly their road to market, their go-to-market strategy, but most essentially I see the shadow, I see the trauma and what we need to heal in order for them to explode. So, yeah, people would have never guessed that about me. Wow, it is so incredible.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

And no, they wouldn't have guessed that about you, but I know through my work, we've got similar pathways in what we're doing. I mean, I'm finding my way. I know the value that you can bring by helping somebody map out their next steps. So, actually, next Thursday, I'm meeting with two powerhouse women friends of mine, and we're working on my next strategy and my different business plans and what I'm doing. And because I'm being held accountable by them and I've got that date in the diary, everything's coming out of my head now and onto paper. But I understand the power of having somebody to work with on that, but I can't even imagine what it'd be like to have some kind of psychic ability and energy in that space as well. So there is not only the vision for somebody's future, but almost the certainty of action that needs to be taken because you can foresee that.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Yeah, I mean, the best example would be the top female entrepreneur, um, uh female creator on LinkedIn in the world. Um, three years ago, when she was only a baby CEO, we had a session together, and I literally told her, you need to do um, you're gonna be a big speaker, you're gonna be on big stages, but you need to network, and your your community is what's gonna make you grow. And she's really huge. She's on my testimonial on LinkedIn if people want to see. I can't name here, but like she's very famous. Okay. And she was on stage um when was it Friday night? And obviously, I went to see her. And you know, people all wanted to take pictures with her, and I thought like I waited, and she came to me when I was talking with someone, and she actually started to tell the story to that person. She was like, Oh, Jeremy and I worked together when I was a baby CEO, and everything she said actually happened. Wow, yeah, yeah. And that was very powerful because I was like, No, I'm not gonna be one of these, so take a picture with me. So we did the picture because she came, and so that's one of the things, and I literally saw I said, You're gonna do big things, you're gonna be so big, you can't even comprehend how big you're gonna be. And she's she's got three businesses, she's a multimillionaire, like she's really, really huge. Um so I I think it's very it's it's very much one thing that people don't know about me, and that I have kind of sort of turned down and now like, no, fuck it, I'm fully owning it.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

I'm doing it. Yeah, and I wonder as well, Jordine, just talking from a woman who's got her own life experience. Now you've seen that come true to fruition. Yeah, maybe you're like, actually, you know, there's the proof, isn't there? Like the concept. So you know you're coming to the premiere um later in September of a documentary I've created on the mountain. Now, when I put that out to the world, I'm gonna make £100,000 and send all these people up Kilimanjaro for this um charity. Everyone thought I was mad. And there was a few times when I thought, I'm never gonna be able to pull this off. Little waivers. Because when you say it and you see it and you action towards it, unless you've got the um fruits of the labour, the the actual results in your hand, say, you can't ever be sure. So I wonder now, as you've said your vision all those years ago, and you can see how successful she is, now you'll maybe believe in your own abilities even more and feel see the value of sharing it.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Yeah, it's interesting because I I literally do it mostly with celebrities and very successful influencer. They come to me, they have an activation, and and the the conf, yeah, they often say, Oh gosh, you you say things that I didn't even know. Um it's not something that is part of my offering. It's it's part of the when I work in mentoring for six months, it's definitely in. Like it's part of the the initial discovery audit, and but it's not something I would purposely say, oh, let's go and do a psychic exit. That's never gonna be that. It's part of the bigger journey because I believe in order to grow, you have to be ready to change and you have to be ready to hear the the good things and the bad things and to be coachable. So that's why I just don't do the one-off, it doesn't interest me at all. It's literally about uh embracing that next chapter and hearing everything and taking a line action in order to make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

I think it's fascinating. I think you're fascinating. Thank you. Um, second question out of the free. Where did you abandon yourself in your life and how did you come back?

SPEAKER_00 59:37

Oh my gosh. Um, in love, in love, I've I've for a very long time. Not gonna make me emotional, actually. Uh, for a very long time I believed that I had to to be someone else to be loved, I had to be this soft woman. I had to give everything in order to receive. And I I can't recall the this big love um that I had when I wasn't in my twenties, you know, the first big love when you're so in love and it's reciprocated. And yeah, um my love life hasn't been very successful. Like even though I've been married a long time, and I'd say I've let myself go. And I, you know, if I were to do it again, I think uh I would probably uh do things in a different way because I do believe that the longevity of a relationship is about being authentic with who you are and what are your expectations, and if you um if you commit too much um and too many times, you lose yourself away. So, yeah, that would be mentor.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

That would be the way. Oh, bless you, darling. And then finally, because we're running out of time, if a woman is watching this broadcast and she's feeling stuck where maybe you once were, what does she need to hear? Not what sounds nice, not your general coaching advice, but what does she need to hear?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

So she needs to hear that everything is seasonal and what's happening right now is not defining who she is as a woman and it's not gonna define her journey. But in order to change the narrative, she's gonna have to get out of your head and she's gonna have to take action. Like, you know, the the the usual advice about um wait for the invitation or dive into your feelings and heal. This is fucking bullshit. Like, literally, yes, allow yourself to cry, allow yourself to feel stuck for one week maximum and then take action. Whatever it is, take imperfect action because with action comes momentum. This is it doesn't mean that whatever you're gonna start is gonna be successful, but maybe by taking this U-turn, something is gonna pop up. No one is gonna find you in your sofa to help you do something, hitting your ben injuries. You have to put yourself out there. You have to be willing to fail. And the more you're ready to fail, the better you will bounce back up.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Oh, I love it so much. You just speak my language, even if you are French, you're speaking my language, Georgine. I think I read a quote which I shared on my Insta not so long ago. Um, fear kills more dreams than failure ever does. It's such great advice. Honestly, it's iconic. I can see that as a clip already, honestly. Thank you. So I'm gonna do a little sign-off now. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. It was amazing. Thank you. I feel like we could do like a whole day's episode. Like I could talk to you forever. So, thank you so much for listening. This has been the wonderful, wonderful podcast guest today, Geraldine Spurway. And we have been sipping the wonderful Everflight Vineyard champagne or classic curve. Thank you for listening, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time. Cheers. Cheers.