Episode 20 - We Made It

Only 1% of all podcasts make it to 20 episodes. Karan and Matt, your humble hosts, are thrilled to have made it this far. They would like to thank all of their loyal listeners, and Raul the realtor, for helping them to reach this amazing milestone in the life of the show. This round of Listersky is on us! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Can you hear the drummer in my building?

SPEAKER_04 0:21

No, actually I can't really not at all. Well, that's good. Yeah, must be sure can. Yeah, it must be. Oh, well, yeah. I guess your mic must be good at not picking that up.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yeah, I I guess so. Um, well, it probably is picking it up. It's just I won't hear it till I go and edit it. But you know, this uh software I got to get rid of background noise is really nice, and I don't really worry about the drums nearly as much anymore because I know I have that option.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Yeah, right. Yeah. Uh it's like, yeah, it's it's hard when you work in a recording studio, I guess, especially one that's a bit of a shared space. But for whatever it's worth, yeah, I don't hear it at all. I haven't heard it uh at all. And so far, no none of the users have said, hey guys, great podcast, but you know, there's a drummer in the back you might want to talk to. That hasn't happened yet. You know, nobody has ever said that. So based on that, I think we should be okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah, sometimes you can base things on a lack of feedback. Yeah, uh, you base it on feedback, but we'll we'll base that on a lack of feedback, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no feedback in this case is good. We we don't want to hear about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Yeah, that's a good thing. How's your week, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Uh it's great. Uh better, better, yeah. My uh daughter was sick last week, which yeah, if she went, you know, once uh when your kid gets sick, everything just pretty much goes out the window because they're pretty much yeah, the highest, most demanding thing. So you just work and live your life around that. Uh but it's better, it's much better now. She's you know, she's she's she's three years old, so she has some form of immunity. Um when she was smaller, it was it was harder. She was getting sick like almost every few two or three weeks in the winter out here. So yeah, I'm grateful that she's getting better, but uh yeah, it's we we still have like yeah, we have to deal with it when she gets sick, but she's okay now. So this week is so far looking easier, yeah. I hope it is.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Parents have to like find that balance, I guess, between making their kids live a life that's too clean, so they build up zero immunity. Yeah. And then they catch a cold when they're 40 and it just wipes them out. Yeah. Or they uh versus you know, being yeah, the uh complete opposite of that. It's like you don't want to go too far in either direction or something, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Yeah, you don't want to live in a bubble, definitely not. I mean, it's uh yeah, it's it's it's something that uh I think now if you of course, just like with everything else in the world, there are people who are peddling that as influencers online too, saying, you know, yeah, you gotta let your kids play in the mud. Surprise, surprise, it's been happening for years, and yeah, that's they're probably the reason why you and I are still here because our grandparents played in the mud and didn't get wiped out when some crazy pandemic hit we play in the mud as our grandfathers did.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Carry the legacy. It's true though, and I feel like especially for a man like don't cripple your son by turning him into you know, we all know that guy who that adult man who just can't stop using hand sanitizer. Yeah, you know, you don't you don't necessarily want your son to turn into that guy because um he's got a direct line to the PRL company.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Yeah, he's like got like a monthly shipment coming in. I mean it's it's definitely gotten worse after the pandemic, but yeah, I I feel like most people have recovered, but my god. I remember during the pandemic, my hands got so dry from just the sheer amount of sanitizer I would have to put like everywhere, you know. I would I would walk into like um like any anything, any kind of establishment, and they would be like, Okay, sanitize your hands, please.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

And I was like, Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Yeah, they build it up. Like we said, you know, they they told us eggs were bad for us, now they're okay, then they're gonna be bad again. Yeah, and um, and then there's they tell us to sanitize our hands, and then they say, Don't do that, it'll kill all your natural flora or what what fauna, yeah, fauna on uh the natural bacteria you need on on your body, it'll kill it, and then you'll you know have no immunity or whatever. And before you know it, they'll be back to hand sanitizing.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Big lie, pretty much. Yeah, I mean, like right now, for example, I mean, I people aren't like the biggest Trump fan, but there's people out there who are like talking about Iran like a victim, and I'm like, oh my god, do you guys do you guys realize like that they aren't really that good of a government? Like they have been pretty repressive, so let's not let's not get too carried away with you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

It's a good way to allow the virtue signalers to identify themselves so you know who they are.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah, it's just when you see the extreme white liberal raising their hand and uh you know just stomping their feet about something where you're kind of like uh you know you're not the leader of black people, right? Like you know you're white, right? Like me, like I'm white. Yeah, they didn't elect you their mayor, you're not the mayor of black people. That's okay. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Yeah, it really is. I mean, you know, can we all just agree to come back to the middle a little bit? Like, let's let's go a little Buddhist out here. Walk the middle path, man. Come on. Like, I feel like every there's I feel like they're like the people there's a bunch of people who have gone to the right, and a bunch of people who have gone to the left, and then there's the rest of us who are stuck in the middle, uh, because the ones on the left and right are just the loudest voices in the room, and the ones in the middle are just like oh god, yeah, the loudest voices usually the last one you really should listen to, but it's the first one you hear. Yeah, yeah. I I don't know if I've said this before, but more more and more people need to watch Beauty and the Beast. I think I've said this because you need you need you you need to watch Beauty and the Beast. You need to see how Gaston gets this crowd just riled up about this beast who we've seen the whole way is actually a nice beast. He has a good heart, but Gaston has no problem just getting the whole town riled up with pitchforks and firing torches, and you know, women waving handkerchief from the window, bidding farewell to the brave man off the top.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Throwing their bonnets in the air.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Yes, and you're just like, no.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

I know, I know, and it and it helps that Gaston is like a six foot five, you know, good-looking guy with a cleft in his chin. Yeah, the size of a mortar crater. Everybody listens.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Yeah, and like the uh yeah, and like the uh like uh yeah, he's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Just look at him. Yeah, like you can tell he knows what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

He wouldn't mislead us, would he?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah, I like his ponytail. Oh my god, what are we?

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've said this before. That's it's something that I I'm just like, yeah. I'm just like, wow. I feel like people have forgotten the teachings of that great movie.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, I know. I don't know, I even know where we are anymore. I like I said, I kind of bury my head in the sand, but yeah, it it is really funny when people jump onto a bandwagon that seems like like the more virtuous option and just has the right ring to it that they want to hear. And it's like, listen, did you you know, did you really investigate this? And you know, and and by the way, um, you know, it's like uh um I don't want to be I don't I didn't want to go to war. I didn't want this war. I don't want to do this. I don't want to know what the fuck they're doing, but or or we're we're doing. But it's like um at the same time, it's also like on the polar opposite side, you've got these people, you know, we're protecting uh uh uh a thousands of years old culture. And it's like, well, yeah, there's that side of it, and I'm sure there are beautiful aspects to the Iranian culture. I I guarantee there are some of the foods they eat and the cooking that the women do that you know they only they know how to do a certain way, and some of these cultural nuances that would probably be really fun and beautiful to experience, but at the same time, you should remember that if you're gay, they probably want to kill you. Yeah, you know, if you're or if you're a trans person, you know what? Guess what? You're free to do that here in the states. You go try, go try do that in uh Iran, yeah. You know, and I'm not trying to sound like freaking Tucker Carlson or some Republican right now, but I mean, for God's sake, like come to the middle, like get away from that extreme.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

Like, you're you're not doing anyone any favors, like you're not you're not contributing to like a constructive argument, you're just kind of like trying to make sure your loud voice is the one that prevails, and it's that's doesn't mean you're correct. Speaking more about the government, yeah, the government that's oppressive, the oppressive government, not so much the people, because like the people are just like you and me, they're just trying to live their life, raise kids, and you know, yes, like basically, you know, have have all the things that you people crave these days.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah, probably have some freaking delicious dates over there too. Yeah, yeah, they do. Boy do I love dates?

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Yeah, yeah, they probably have fig trees there too. I know you like figs, so I do. Oh man. We can use that as a segue to move into a more fun topic.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah, by the way, you know how I said in an earlier episode that people always ask me always ask me what ethnicity I am? Yeah, I guess, yes. Even though I'm just a white kid. But like the just the other day, somebody speaking of Middle Eastern people, just the other day somebody uh this girl asked me, uh she was like, Are you are you uh are you Middle Eastern? Or she was yeah, she was like, Are you uh are you Middle Eastern? And I was like, I was like, uh no, you know, not not that I not that I know of. I don't believe so. And I was like, why do you do you think I look Middle Eastern? And she was like, No. And I was like, do you just ask everyone that? Like, how did you why did you ask me that if you don't think I look middle?

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yeah, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

I don't know. I don't know questions. I don't know where these these people come out of the woodworks. Um it's really funny. You know, I'm not gonna I enjoy it. I'm not gonna lie. It's really fun, it's harmless. It's it's harmless, it's funny. I like it. Um, yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

But one day you should just go with it.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

You should just go with it. Totally, yeah, you're right. You know, I should. You you're so right. I should be like, you're you know what? Yes, I am. I am Middle Eastern. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

Because you can you can do an accent. You can just you can you can do an accent if you really like put your mind to it. And you can you can and you know, if you if if they already have that preconception and you start throwing the accent, they're not going to correct you out of out of like you know, this this kind of like guilt that they might be uh putting you that putting your culture down, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah, totally. Maybe I'll maybe I'll do the same thing when people tell me I look like someone who I don't want to be compared to. They'll be like, you look like Josh Groben. I'll be like, oh that's you know what?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I but I I I am actually like I am, I am that's my brother.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Oh, holy night. Sing one of those. He probably does that song, Holy Night. He probably does. He probably does.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Josh Groben does a lot of stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yeah, he's a crooner. He's he's a lifelong crooner. Yeah, he was crooning in the crib. The doctor had to put a pacifier in his mouth just to stop him from crooning. Oh, silliness, silly, silly me. Josh Cronenberg.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Just kidding. Josh Cronenberg. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Josh, yeah, Josh Cronin. Croon crooning. I don't know. Um, so uh the uh actually I wanted to say this. This is a really uh great thing, is is that today, I don't know if you remember this, Kuran. Today is our 20th episode that we've done. 20th episode? It's our 20th episode. The last one was our 19th. This is our 20th. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. We couldn't have done it with them at you.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yeah. We couldn't have done with you guys here in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Listen to them at all day. I just love them. A little longer. I love you. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Twenty episodes. That's twenty episodes. Yeah, that's what I read is that, and I think I told you this, but apparently only uh, and I'm not afraid to brag about it because we earned it. Um but I think uh but I read that as a statistical fact, only one percent of all podcasts, and I'm not talking about just the five or ten podcasts that are uber famous, I'm talking about all podcasts that people start, including those that are uber famous. So all podcasts in the world, of all podcasts, only one percent of them make it to 20 episodes. That's insane.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

I can't believe we made it.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

That's so great.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

That is that that is amazing. I mean, it's just you know, it's it's really what's the craziest to me is it doesn't even feel like it's been 20. Like it's a good sign. Yeah, it's a good it's it's like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

I think that means we may make it to 40, you know what I mean? We might we might make it to 40. Why why not?

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Um so I I wanted to, if you don't mind, I just had a couple of quick words I'd like to say. Nothing overdone, nothing dramatic, but just a couple of things I'd like to say in regards to our show.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

You know, it's nearly impossible for me to believe this fateful day has finally come. This golden day when our show, the Berngatti Show, reached its 20th episode. Yet somehow, in my heart of hearts, I always knew that it would. Today is a day that shall be remembered and shall echo in the halls of the human soul for a dozen generations to come. Generations of MASH burns and Mumigates, and of that guy in Utah who listens, and that person in Uruguay. Our great-great-grandchildren will sing songs of this day when our show surpassed 99% of all other podcasts in reaching episode number 20. I'd like to take a moment to thank you, the devoted listeners, and of course my faithful partner Cutham, for coming along on this journey. I don't know where this winding old road will lead us.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

I don't know what perils or trials may lie ahead on this noble and glorious path. But I know that we have made it this far together. And I believe, with all of the power vested in me, that we shall vanquish whatever challenges may come our way. And in the end, when the trumpets have sounded, and the angels have sounded. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

How many times did you rehearse that? Just wondering. A few. A few.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

It was pretty epic. Yeah. That that that band you hired was really going at it at some point. Like they were they were determined to to like you know overpower you with their trumpeting.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

They pretty much did. I could barely hear myself speak. I uh wasn't able to return the wasn't able to get the volume down before before going for it. Could you hear me at all?

SPEAKER_04 17:56

I could I could, but towards the end it was definitely, yeah. It was definitely getting hard.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yeah, so anyway, here we are, 20th episode. Couldn't have done it without all of our the guy in his uncle's basement and all the rest. Right. So, um, do we have any uh updates we wanna share from you or from me? Do you have anything you want to share? Well you kind of shared a little bit. You know, we're glad Zoe is is better. Yes. So we got that up we got that update. Yes. Uh let's see.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

I'm trying to decide which update.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

I was gonna say uh it sounds like you might have a few, because I haven't uh we haven't done this in some time, but yeah. The only other update uh we have out here is that summer is coming, which is always great. I'm sure most people who live in the northern hemisphere are seeing like just the pure awesomeness of summer coming. This is this is the awesome part where it's getting warm, but it's not like scorching hot just yet. So everyone's out smiling, having a good time, you know. Um, so that's it's always nice because because boy, does winter suck for a summer?

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Yeah, we're we get so much of rain here. It's this is technically a rainforest. I didn't know that. But yeah, in my mind, a rainforest is where I came from in India, where there's monsoons and we have tropical like rainforests out there um with a lot of biodiversity. But here, this this area actually, I didn't know that, but Vancouver, uh Seattle area is considered a rainforest.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Definitely way different than Toronto, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Yeah, tons. Way, way different. Yeah, if you if you if you like your environment and nature, um definitely this is the place to be. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Do you do you definitely like Vancouver more than Toronto?

SPEAKER_04 19:56

I do. Yeah, I do. I mean, I I've I've always been more of a West Coast fan. That goes for the US too. I I way prefer the West Coast of the United States over like you know, my time in in the east. But but that being said, I used to live in upstate New York and it's really it has its own charm because it's it's really nice too. Like it has like that great small town charm. And me being a Stephen King fan, like I was always I was always liking that because I was like, yeah, this kind of reminds me of this book.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Um, this gutter reminds me of it.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Yeah, exactly. It is probably Stephen King's most like you know, yeah, uh small town. Yeah, small town dairy, the town of Derry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Did you did you see uh the the newer it?

SPEAKER_04 20:44

I have I haven't seen any of it I haven't seen yeah, I don't dude get on that shit.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

It's pretty fucking good.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

I I bet, I bet, yeah. I I think once like yeah, Zoe's a little older, like I said, I will right now like it's a little bit more than a lot of things. Yeah, I mean you definitely don't want to wonder with them. Yeah, not only that, but like when when I'm when I'm done, like I'm just like the one hour I have to myself, I just like relax and um watch something that I don't doesn't take up too much of my mental health mental capacity. Yeah, so yeah. Makes sense. But yeah, that's that's pretty much it for me. Uh what what up what updates you like?

SPEAKER_02 21:21

I like it. Nice. Um what updates do I have? Well, hmm. Let's see. Um I don't know which update to go with, but I guess I have to just pick one.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

I'll make this one I'll try to make this one quick, but uh there was keep don't make promises you can't keep sorry, I have to you you set me up for that one. I did. I teed that ball up. I just I couldn't I couldn't resist spiking that volleyball.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah, you hit that pinata down the fairway.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

All right. Uh yeah, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

All right, so there was uh all right, so recording acoustic guitar is really hard. Um especially in a Karan, have you ever tried like have you ever recorded guitar? That's a genuine question. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

No, no, not not. I mean, yes, like amateur uh hour wise, yes, but never like professionally to the point where I I have to make sure everything is just, you know, really nice and everything. But yeah, right, never that.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

You know, it's funny how many things in life are really hard and it's like when you're in the midst of it, you're asking yourself, why am I doing this? It's so hard. But I think that without the difficulty of it, it I mean this is maybe a cliche thing to say, but I do I think it's true that without the difficulty of it, I don't know if it would be as satisfying at the end. And um so that's kind of how I feel about rec recording and like is like sometimes it's so hard. Like and so I'll use this acoustic guitar example because it's from this week so it's current but like there was this one guitar part uh in one of my songs that um I always like I had been kind of looking for the right guitar for it for a long time. I mean honestly like you know when people say things like oh it should take X amount of time to record that type of part or it should take an hour to record a guitar part or it should take an hour to it's like you know when Billy Corgan was recording with Butch Vig and they were recording um his song you know that one that starts out with that riff that's like slaughtering the tuning of it but when he was recording that it's kind of a clean guitar part they spent just like I mean like days or like at least a whole day just trying to get the sound of that riff right. A lot of times with guitar recording what you end up doing is like spending hours getting the tone perfect because that's kind of the hardest part like assuming the part is written and you can play it already, which usually that is the case, the hardest part is going to be dialing in the tone that you really want. And again the more quirky or the more specific that guitar part is or the more sort of like character it needs to have to work in the song, the harder it usually is to find the perfect tone for it. And the longer you'll spend chasing it and trying to find it. Whenever I finally find a tone that I really like I always write down the exact settings like where did I put the mic? Where what what did where did I move the dials on the amp to uh which guitar pickup was I using um you know all that stuff. You know which which pedal and where did I have the knob turned to on the pedal, the guitar pedal. So it's all those things make a difference. So I I always write them down because it's so hard to get a sound back.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

But anyway so one thing you learn when you're recording acoustic guitar and vocals is that well especially acoustic guitar is that depending on where you angle your body and the guitar and the microphone like depending on which side of the room the microphone is pointing towards it honestly makes a huge difference in the way the guitar recording sounds. And so you have to sort of you know try like four different positions of where am I sitting. There's a lot of trial and error and testing and you know for a couple of my songs in particular I had a very specific vibe in mind of what I was chasing for the acoustic guitar and it kind of had to work. It's like I have to find the perfect way that I want the guitar to carry the acoustic guitar to to carry itself in the song and sometimes it's kind of challenging for me. But so I had this other song that was kind of like I don't want to die in that the acoustic played a pretty damn prominent role in the song and honestly like for years I had tried different acoustic guitars for it. I was never a hundred percent satisfied with them and I'm like I have to nail the way this sounds to make people enjoy this song and make me enjoy this song it has this acoustic guitar has to be just right. I uh bought one from um with in the back of my mind kind of thinking I'll get the part with this guitar and then if I'm not like so in love with it that I'm like I have to keep this I'll just return it. Because I mean it's like it's$4,000 dude like it I should fall in love with it. I started trying to record the part sure enough it was taking way longer than I predicted. I am not good at plan at predicting how long things will take. You should have you should have released a live rattlesnake in the studio to add more excitement to this pretty much was a live rattlesnake in the studio which was my stress um because I was like oh my god this is taking longer than I planned as I was getting deeper into recording it I started to think oh my god this guitar sounds so damn good this guitar this is the best sounding acoustic guitar I've ever heard you know this is like amazing like I love this guitar oh my god I'm falling in love with this guitar but I was like because I I bought it using my gear card which is essentially a credit card but you get it you get it for a certain number of months interest free um which is cool but it's still four thousand dollars and I I still hadn't finished recording the part yet because so many drummers had been coming in and then I had to wait and come back a different time so I was like all right look I'll just keep the guitar um so um I called my wife and told her she's kind of like you know what why would you like she was like what are you doing and I was like no you don't understand this is the most amazing guitar it's it's amazing it's it's better than it's better than the others and she was like that's what you say with every new guitar she's like I've heard this song I've heard this before and I was like no it's different this time literally sounded like me like arguing without a new girlfriend who the whole family thinks is toxic and I'm like you don't know her she loves me for me exactly that's exactly what it was like and I'm like yeah so so it's man yeah so so uh because you form like relationships with musical instruments um but so what ended up happening though oh my god um was this is like that iPhone story I told you do you have a full thousand dollar guitar now or is it like no so this is what happened is um I can't I I I took it back on the last day when I could still return it and I had my receipt and I had the guitar I go up to the desk um and I was like hey guys and they're like hey how uh how can I help you and I was like this guitar sucks I don't want it this guitar is a piece of junk this Martin triple oh twenty eight sounds like an old horn it's awful four thousand dollars for this honky tonk four thousand dollars for this rusty mule take it back to your shop so I took it back and I was like guys I really want to keep this but I have to return it unless unless there's a way because the guy who set me up with this guitar actually set me up on the six month payment plan instead of the 48 month payment plan because the gear card offers these different plans so the 48 48 months interest free payments it makes four thousand dollars a lot easier to swallow. Sure. But what the guy sold it to me he signed me up for the six months payments and it was like$200 a month and it and then after six months it's gonna start charging me interest and I was like all right I can't afford that I can't afford these payments right now and I can't you know gas is astronomically expensive I just did my taxes you know all this and I kind of just told them like look if there's a way that you can switch this to the 48 month payment plan I could keep this guitar and I I want to keep it but I can only do it if you switch it to that. And so the manager comes out and materializes and his name was D and he's like um he's like I got you I got you come in my office and he like he he's like treating me like I'm like treating me like royalty. Tricia get him a soda yeah yeah so he's like come on come on back in my office he like shoes the other employees aside like they're pigeons pulls me yeah get shoe get out of here come on come on Brian and he he pulls me into his office and I sit down and he's like have a seat have a seat you want a cigar no he sits me down and he's like he's like he's like what do you need and I'm like well I I I gotta get this to 48 months instead of the six months and he's like give me one second I mean he like click click it he clacks on his computer and he's like you know what I've only done this once before but I'm able to uh do this override on like a pre previous payment plan I can switch you to that 48 months no problem he's like no problem I can get you on that 48 months and I'm like okay uh let's do it and um so uh he gave me a pat on the back and I'm like I go on my way and and then it dawns on me as I'm leaving I'm like I have no guarantee whatsoever that he will follow through on switching my plan. I mean he you know he didn't really give me any proof of it he just talked my ear off for a long time convincing me of it like it it really sounded like he could do it but it just the details weren't nailed down and I had no written proof right that he was going to do this. I did however have a text message he started a text message chain with me and linked in a picture of my receipt okay so I did have proof that he and I were trying to do this switch to the 48 month plan but I had no proof that it would happen. And that was my last day to return the guitar because again I procrastinated until the last minute so um it was kind of a scary it was a very stressful scary position for me to be in because I felt like um this is my last chance to return it and I'm kind of going on this guy's word so I like you know I called him and I was like hey to me I was like are you you're you're sure you can do this right you know because it's kind of my last day to return it and he's like well there's no he was like listen if you want to return it uh you can return it anytime it doesn't you know if it if it doesn't work or if you change your mind you can always return it it's fine and I was like all right well that makes me feel better um I still had nothing written so it was still stressful anyway cut to cut to the end um I uh it was just a really stressful situation that I basically created for myself by putting off just with poor planning and by like putting off this thing until the last minute my God it was just a I mean and then so I mean they it ends on a happy note which is that uh because I waited a f a couple of days for him to get this 48 month for him to switch me on to the 48 month payment plan and it was a stressful couple of days and finally I was like you know I can't take this stress I don't know when this um and I was like I'm gonna probably go return this guitar today because he told me that I can return it any time even though it's past the return uh deadline so I was like you know what I'm gonna give one more try to get this part hopefully there's no drummers but either way I'm gonna return it today I lucked out there were no drummers for like five hours straight and I got the I got the whole part recorded so there's a little story behind that guitar part now. So I got the part and then I was like okay I'm um I'm gonna return this guitar I contacted the manager and he said that uh uh he said I could return it um uh because he still hadn't gotten anything like super definitive back from he kind of misled me I mean he kind of made a promise he made it sound like a really sure thing and it kind of wasn't completely I mean he claimed he did get me switched over to it but he was like yeah you won't see it reflected for three payment cycles okay and it's like are you kidding I'm gonna wait three months to know for sure that you switch me to this better payment plan like no this is four thousand dollars I can't afford to be stuck with some some giant payments every month so right I uh he but he you know he he did keep to his word to allow me to return the guitar and I I returned the guitar but the beautiful part is I got the part recorded and it's done that freaking acoustic guitar part that I've been that's been taking up bandwidth in my brain for years is finally done so I'm really happy about that that's the update awesome once this once this episode's out I'm gonna find it to him just kidding you might that's awesome you know well you know you gotta do what you gotta do but you know I guess this is why I mean you know I know we live in a do-it-yourself culture right now because that's frankly you know that's the reality of the world like people not me not everyone can afford crazy studio time and studio space but I guess this is why um you know back in the day like if you had a studio behind you you didn't have such problems right because they paid for studio time they paid for instruments they paid for like a guy who would come in and and and be responsible for making sure you record sort of they they fronted you the money okay okay yeah they they did well they would yeah they would they weren't really paying for it because they would take it out of what the band would go on to earn right and the the label would you know literally give them hundreds of thousands of dollars up front to record in the studio because it is damn expensive to record in the studio. Yeah really um and then the band would spend you know mu weeks or however long and well depends how much money they got and um they would you know work it out and record it in the studio and they would have enough time to do the biggest thing about recording I mean anybody can pay for a day you can save up you know um a thousand bucks or a couple thousand bucks and go spend a day recording stuff in a professional studio but the problem is if you're if you're picky or if your songs are sort of require certain unique things that you're looking for, you'll need a lot you'll probably need more time than you think to like dial in the exact tones and stuff you want. I mean if you're if you're really prepared and you know exactly what tones you want going in and you have your songs have sort of a simple arrangement, you could conceivably go in and in one day track a few songs with your band or whatever but it's just kind of there's just also a lot of scenarios where that's not going to work for you. And it's it's never worked for me. And I've Lord knows that I have tried it. Like you remember current back when I used to fly to Amarillo Texas and try to record in the studio that Steven worked for.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

I yeah I remember that yeah I remember that used that used to be like a regular thing that you would do semi regular yeah whenever I had whenever I had saved up a little money.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yeah and you would like once you had like a few ideas and everything lined up you would take a trip out there just take a trip out and I always ran up against the I mean a similar set of problems and one of the biggest of those problems was that I just was really limited for time and I didn't have my I didn't have a full band so it was kind of just me this solo artist who had these electric guitar parts and different parts and I just didn't have my exact sound completely figured out before going into the studio and my young self thought I'll figure it out in the studio. And that was my biggest you know blind spot because unless you have a massive budget you won't have time to quote figure things out in the studio. You need to already have it exactly figured out to the last detail before you set foot in there. Right. And I I don't know if other people if a lot of people know that or not but it's it's definitely a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

And so anyway but um yeah yeah yeah so yeah because you're paying for time like it's basically like if you want to go meet a doctor or a lawyer you don't want to spend the first hour just oohing and eyeing you got to like know what you want to talk about and kind of make you know because you're paying for that time.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

So that's a that's exactly it when you go talk to a lawyer who's charging five hundred dollars an hour you don't want to just poke around in there like you wanna you you want to have your list of questions you know printed out or should laugh from Harvard huh?

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Yeah yeah I used to go to school in Massachusetts well Kelvin went to Harvard.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah you don't want to be like doing small talk you want to get get to business like you're tied to it exactly yeah um so yeah I mean I think a lot of young younger artists or a lot of young bands uh or uh probably have had a similar experience that I had at one time of wasting a lot of money uh in it I mean I probably blew you know I don't know uh uh somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 grand um over the trips that I made maybe slight probably more actually um and you know didn't really get anything that I'm ending up keeping from it um because we were kind of firing shots in the dark and you know I just didn't have my sound figured out yet but um you know yeah bless our hearts you know we did we we we we really tried yeah and that's that's that's you know that's a tough process like I mean if you watch any like music documentary about how they came up with an album it's not like they went in and like finished it in like a week it's usually like took some time you know they did something waited a few days listened to it didn't like it went back changed it like there's a lot that happens behind the scenes yeah um yeah so yeah it's it's a it's a tough process for sure because especially with rock music I imagine because you are actually you need to you know kind of like give each instrument its due make sure it's you know yeah it's like the well with you know it's like man that what you just said exactly is that if you have songs that are sort of generic pop songs and when I say generic I don't mean that they're not great songs. I mean they're generic in that they essentially have a pretty conventional sound um that we've heard before or at least heard versions of before but you're do you just you know maybe you've written great songs but it's just there's not like riff there's not like a quirky bass part it's just a a good song. If you're in that position let's say a young like a Taylor Swift type where I think for the most part especially her early songs they were just kind of like a solo artist on an acoustic guitar strumming and singing along um that's the easiest thing for a producer to flesh out into a finished product because there's nothing super complicated in what they have to figure out. They can just bring in they can be like oh I know what this is this is pop. This is this type of pop and so or this is this type of country. So they just bring in their army of you know they bring in their session players who they know a guitarist a bassist a drummer whatever a keyboardist and they're hey Bob can you come over at three o'clock I got this young girl Taylor I just want to lay down some keyboard on her track and he I'm making this up this didn't I don't know what happened with her early recordings. I'm just imagining it and it's like in the session players you know they play they play their electric guitar part a little clean electric guitar fill out the verse whatever but if you have like a sound or a a vision that's really you're really like unique in the sound that you're kind of chasing or that you have in your head I I have an idea of this delicate balance I want in the tone of the electric guitar here between dirty and clean and then it's like if you're gonna be like that then you better really know exactly what you're uh how to get those sounds and what you're doing to get those sounds before you come in. And most rock bands a lot of rock bands really are like that where they have a very specific sound and they can't just it wouldn't make sense for them to just come in with one one guy comes in with an acoustic guitar like and expects to then expand it into the exact vision he wants uh you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah yeah it's interesting yeah um the things we learn yeah yeah I it's it's that's that's part of like the process I guess yeah it would be cool if a young band heard this or a young musician because you know that's what I would say to them is like know no uh know what type you are are you a type that is your style is conducive to being producer friendly but if you have a really specific vision uh you better have all the parts Really figured out and the tone you want with your band before you go in and have I mean, ideally, even even down to the exact gear that you're using, because the studio you go to may or may not have the gear you want. And again, if you don't have weeks to experiment in there, because you don't have a huge budget, it's better if you just really have your gear figured out before you even go in.

SPEAKER_04 44:23

Yeah, I mean it's uh yeah, with I think anything creative, it's there's just so many possibilities that it's really, really good if you kind of know where uh like have a vision for what you want to do. Uh it just makes it easier for you to work with professionals because you know there are professionals out there who don't necessarily want to do their own thing, but they will they do like to be part of like you know um other people's projects. And when they come and sign on to what you're doing, they they kind of want to know what your vision is. Uh, you know, that gives that gives them their cue.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

So yeah, it's it's interesting because it's interesting because what I've found with that is that they want to know what your vision is, but they also want to have some room to to to to exercise their own um way of doing things as well. So it's like it's this kind of dance of of like telling them just enough, giving them just enough direction without giving them too much. Right. Yeah. Like you don't want to step on their toes and make them feel micromanaged, but you also kind of want to like convey the kind of vision you're going towards. But I don't know. I guess I think I don't know, maybe it's best to start with the macro and then work down to the micro.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

Like start with always you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah, like start with a broad with really broad strokes. Like if they're kind of like, what sound are you going for? And I never know what to say to that. I hate that question. Because it's like, I mean, because what you want to say is like, well, it's my sound. You know, it's like if somebody asks you, Karen, like what what kind of film are you kind of emulating with your script? It's like, I don't know. It's I tried to write a cool story, like it's my script. I don't know. It's but you kind of if you're gonna scale your project larger and increase the production value and all these things and take it through the levels of production, you do come up against these questions. Yeah, yes. And and and you you, you know, so but again, I try to like start with the broadest strokes you can. So like for me, it's like what do I really know for sure? And you know, I would say now what I know for sure is like if I'm if we're talking about really broad strokes in the aesthetic of a sound, I there kind of two directions you can lean. Again, very broadly speaking. One is the more sort of synthetic or or non-organic sound. You can lean that way and have these really polished, kind of rigidly edited, like way of it sounding, or in the complete opposite direction is a more kind of warm, maybe even slightly vintage-y, but just a warm, organic kind of sound. And what I've found has uh helped me is to at least know which of those two camps my music belongs in, which is definitely that the more warm, organic kind of vibe. And I think when I was really young, I didn't even know that. Like, because you know, somebody would show me the way something could sound, and I'd be like, well, I mean, it does sound good. It's just good to be aware of because when a producer is like, well, what do you want it to sound like? It's like, well, you don't have to give them an exact band to like copy a sound from, but you do kind of of, you know, of the you kind of want to know what basic camp you kind of want to be in. And it's like, I would rather be in that sort of alternative or indie camp in terms of my sound, just because I think it's more flattering to the songs or the style, even though there is a part of me that doesn't want to commit or doesn't like to categorize myself at all, you know, in any uh camp. So yeah, that's that's like a a weird thing about uh trying to make art artistic projects, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Yeah, it's it's something that it's not something that you can like pick up a book, read, and just be like, okay, I know what I want. It's you have to kind of like you know, do it. Um and yeah, and whatever what you have in your mind is rarely what first comes out when you start. Uh you really you really have to whittle it and make it, you know, something that is, you know, that you know satisfies you. Uh because usually the first attempt, at least what I've seen, is while it might satisfy some part of you, it's not usually totally there. So yeah, first drafts are very important, but you should never stop there. Um and I don't think anybody ever does. Anybody who's truly serious about art never stops at the first draft.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

That's the funny thing of like is uh I mean again, it goes back to what you and I talked about in a different episode where it's knowing the balance between perfectionism versus you know, knowing when to stop. You know, it's like you you know, because it's like you talked about your script, like two hits. Um I mean, you and you kind of look back, and I've had this, as I told you, I've had this same exact experience with certain songs, believe me. But like you you look back and you're like, man, I had all these fuck these voices coming at me from different directions, like telling me you should do this or do that with it. And then you're like, shoot, at the end of the day, after making some of those revisions and spending time and energy on it, I kind of wanted to just go back to it being a little simpler or being the way it kind of was in the the way I had it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

The thing is, I wrote two hits when I was very like just getting started. I didn't really know much, which was kind of nice because it it was freeing. Uh I was I was just able to enjoy the process. Um then you know came the like the reality check of like what a good script actually needs, and you know that put me down to a path of like learning. But like now I think I'm back at a point where I'm just like enjoying it again because at the end of the day, that's what why you're doing what you do, right? You want to enjoy what you're doing, absolutely. Um, but yeah, we can talk more about it in another day. I think this this is uh music was yeah, the music is a good part of it today.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

All right, yeah. Well, let's uh wrap it up then.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Um second.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

I hadn't heard that one. I like it. No, good choice. I hadn't heard that one in a while. That was kind of fun, unexpected, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

Yeah, nice, yeah. But thank you all for stopping by to our 20th episode. 20th episode, guys.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

20 more. Thank you, guys. Yeah, here's to 2,000 more. All right, okay, all right, dude. Stop this. We'll see you later.