Ask Allison

Ep . 8 - Capital Campaign Triumphs: Beating the Deadline with Frankie Rankin

• Allison McElroy

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With shifting economic landscapes and looming federal budget cuts, fundraising leaders must learn how to strategically leverage big opportunities before time runs out. In this episode, Allison McElroy sits down with Frankie Rankin, the CEO of the Single Parent Scholarship Fund of Northwest Arkansas, to uncover how her organization successfully unlocked a major milestone under immense pressure.

We sit down to unpack the high-stakes world of challenge grants and the precise strategies required to execute them successfully. Frankie shares the behind-the-scenes realities of managing a massive capital campaign, detail by detail, including the specific rules governing structures like the Tulsa-based challenge framework. The conversation details how to manage dual campaign spreadsheets, navigate public vs. quiet phases, and mobilize board members who are terrified of traditional asking but brilliant at relationship handoffs. The true turning point of the episode centers on a massive $590,000 deficit with only 48 hours remaining on the clock, demonstrating how deep stakeholder trust can inspire a jaw-dropping final hour save.

The road to achieving these monumental fundraising milestones is never clean, straightforward, or without immense professional strain. Campaigns rarely move in a straight line, and leaders often face severe plateaus, internal team transitions, and moments of sheer defeat where giving up feels like the only logical choice. Viewers will walk away with a grounded framework for building authentic donor transparency, specific strategies for structuring multi-year pledges, and a reminder that fundraising success relies on methodical planning rather than luck.

If you care about non-profit sustainability, strategic capital campaigns, and leveraging board relationships, you’ll get a lot from this episode. Please remember to Subscribe and Share to help us expand our reach. What is the most unexpected breakthrough your team has experienced during a tight deadline? Let us know in the comments below!

SPEAKER_00

Welcome back to the Ask Allison Podcast. I'm Allison McElroy, a certified fundraising executive located in Northwest Arkansas. I love helping people reach their big goals with my version of strong encouragement. And I like to use my sense of humor, sometimes inappropriateness, and my experience to lift you all up. And I just want to say thank you for joining me today. Um, today I have my friend Frankie Rankin with me. Sometimes I like to call her Frankie Jan. Yet um the Frankie and I have been in the fundraising field together for many years, and we have roomed together many times at the International AFP conference, which is called AFP Icon. And so we have hashed out just about everything you could hash out about fundraising and development work and nonprofits and all the things. But I am so glad she's here today because our subject today is not just capital campaigns in general. We will probably have another session that's literally only about capital campaigns, but something has exciting has just happened to um Frankie's organization and it's timely. And so we needed to talk about it because it's about challenge grants within the campaign. So Frankie is with Single Parent Scholarship Fund. Welcome, Frankie. I want you to tell us about your history and like how you got into fundraising. That's what I always love to ask because all of us didn't wake up and at seven years old and think, I'm gonna be a fundraiser someday. Right. So I want to hear that and just like where you've been over your career and then what you're doing now and that transition. Um, so welcome, Frankie Rankin. Tell us about you and about single parent scholarship.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, hey, thank you. I'm I'm really excited to be here. I was so excited that you asked me. So thank you for inviting me. Um, and yes, our trips to AFP icon have been epic. Um epic. And so um I encourage everybody to go to that. And if you have the chance to run with Alison, she's the best of roommates.

SPEAKER_00

So sometimes I'm still talking and and Frankie's eyes are closed.

SPEAKER_01

But she's gotten used to that. It's good. I enjoy it. Um, so so what was your question again, Allison?

SPEAKER_00

Just tell us, tell us about how you got into fundraising. Yeah. And a little just a brief history of like where the organizations you've served and worked, and then the transition into your new role, which is it's almost not new anymore, but yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Tell us about you. Yes. Um, so I like many fundraisers that I know, truly fell into fundraising. Um, so when I graduated from college, I had a degree in psychology, and I thought I wanted to be a counselor and a really kind counselor. I was trying to get an internship there. And um he had me do a personality test. And after that, he was like, You don't want to work here. This is not the right path for you. This isn't social enough. You need you need a different kind of interaction with people.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And so I was crushed, but now I'm so thankful for that, um, for that guidance and that opportunity. So um, I really was crushed though. So I was like, well, I'll just keep the job I had while I was in college working at the bookstore. And I started working at the Northwest Arkansas Children's Shelter. It was called at the time. Now it's called Ever Hope. Um, I started working there on the weekends because I wanted money for vacation. So really, yes.

SPEAKER_00

I did, I mean, I knew you worked there. Yeah. That's where I first met you. Yeah. But I had no idea that it was just like, I'm gonna do that on the weekends for extra spending money.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's absolutely what it was. And so I did child care there, uh like direct child care. And over the years, I worked there for 10 years. Over the years, I transitioned through many jobs and different roles and had great experiences learning a lot about nonprofit organizations from the program side and then from the fundraising side. So I got an opportunity to be um on the fundraising team. And um, Linda Phillips came in as our director of development and mentored me and really taught me everything that to get started as a fundraiser. I I knew absolutely nothing. Um, and so she showed me the rope. So she was absolutely just tremendous.

SPEAKER_00

Um she had her last month gang, and y'all heard she just knows everything and she's helped so many of us.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, absolutely. And she still helps us. Yes, she does. Yes. Um, and so I worked in uh development there for probably three or four years. Uh, and then I transitioned and got an opportunity to go work for Mercy Health Foundation um and did corporate relations there, and so did a lot of work with sponsors, um, and got to work with Clark Ellison there, who's one of my favorite people in the whole world and one of my also my mentor. Yes. Yes, has also taught us a lot of things. Yes. Um, and so really just got a different perspective, a different outlook on what I can do. Um, and then from there, so I worked there about four years, and then from there I went to Arkansas Athletes Outreach and was a director of development for about a year and a half. Um, and again, I think every experience was just a new opportunity to learn things in a different way. And I got to work with you while we were there because you were uh our our consultant uh with that organization. So that was a great experience. Um and then an opportunity came up at Single Parent Scholarship Fund. And at that time it was of Benton County. Um and it was for an it was for a capital campaign director for an endowment campaign. And so, which was really interesting. So the director at the time was Jack Eaton, who I had worked for at the children's shelter. Right. Um, and I met with him and he was like, I didn't know you knew anything about fundraising because he wasn't there when I was in fundraising. He had already, he had already left that position. So um anyway, so he hired me for that job, and I have been with single parent now for a little almost nine years. So in October it'll be nine years. Your longest when you're talking about the years that you've been at an organization, this might be your longest. Well, I hope it will be at some point. So I was at the children's shelter for 10 years. Okay. So that's that's still, but I have no plans to go anywhere. Um, they're gonna have to like drag my dead body out of the shore.

SPEAKER_00

It's such a great, and so you were there for the transition when they merged, yes, to be single parent northwest Arkansas. And that was where um Washington County, and I think it wasn't just Washington County, and some other counties too, but merged with Benton County. So now tell us the counties.

SPEAKER_01

It's yes, so we serve Benton, Carroll, Madison, and Washington counties. Um, and our mission is to change lives by encouraging personal success. And so we help single parents. We I we help the parent who is wanting to get a higher education. Um, we do uh scholarships for them and we provide supportive services for them and their children while they're in our program. And so for me, it is just the most impactful organization that I've had the chance to work with. And I've loved the other places that I've worked, but I get to see truly every day how their lives are being changed because of people's generosity and support of them as they're on a really, really hard journey to complete their education. And that is not easy because they're a single parent. 80% of them work either part-time or full-time. So they're working, they're going to school, they're parenting by themselves. So, I mean, they are just doing all these things, trying to afford child care, rent, yes, uh, school supplies, all those things.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and I I would say single parent touches my heart because my mom, my parents divorced, and my mom went back to get her master's while my brother and I were younger. And it took everything out of her that she could do. But we also did not have extra funds. And if there had been a single parent scholarship, it would have would have helped her so much. Now, I don't know if she would have had if she would have applied or figured out that it was to help with school and all the other things. I don't know. But all I can think of is it would have made her life so much easier because she was working full time, yes, getting her master's, and then there we were looking at her every night and eating the dinner and yeah, rides to wherever we were going. And so it's it was a hard time for her. Yeah. And so when I was well, and I'm sure a hard time for you as well as the children. When I think about her having us and that, and and my dad was supportive, he just lived in a different city. Yeah, he wasn't right there beside us to help with carpools and you know, homework and all that stuff. He just he was far away. So we saw him and he was a part of our lives, but he lived five hours away. Yeah. So uh single parent really touches me because of that, because I think of my mom and what it would have done for her. Absolutely. Um, the other thing that I do love, like you said, we're seeing parents being supported uh to better themselves, which comes around and helps the whole economy here in Northwest Arkansas. Absolutely. But and it also helps those children, but it's so much more than just the scholarship. They have a a like a pantry if if somebody needs groceries or we don't do food.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, but it's like uh uh health care, uh health yeah. So we do items that you can't use like snap benefits for things like that. So hygiene products, cleaning supplies, laundry detergents, all the stuff that costs a lot on your grocery bill, but it's not groceries, it's the other like shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, toothbrushes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And then y'all have a big back to school drive when it's time for school supplies, not just for the parents, but for their kids as well. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So we do backpacks, and that's really fun because we get to see how excited the kids get over the backpack that they get to pick out. And it's just, yeah. So it's really we also do like holiday events for our recipients so they can bring their families. Um, we serve them a holiday dinner and they get to have family portraits taken. Yeah. Um, so we really do try to do things that are special for the family that are just out of reach. Like, I mean, who they they can't really afford to go and pay for family portraits somewhere. So we're providing that for them. Um, and so sometimes those little things mean so much to them as they're on this journey because they don't have a lot of support sometimes. And so to know that, and we hear this a lot, and it is it's really warms my heart because like we hear them say, I don't understand why someone who doesn't know me cares if I succeed.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And it's so like it's so beautiful to like see how grateful they are, to see how hard they're working because people are supporting them and and helping them through this journey. Um, so I mean, yeah, it's just it's the best place in the whole world, y'all. It is.

SPEAKER_00

And like I was just thinking when you said that, think about you and I. Yeah, we had a traditional trajectory. So while we were in college, we were just being in college. We already has a couple of kids, you know, we both had boys. Uh-huh. We didn't have them and our families at home trying to tell, you know, juggling and all that. We were just being crazy, crazy college people. Right. And so I think if you will tell them that most of us who went and furthered our education in that track, you know, to go on to college after high school, um, we when we look back and we think, oh, I was just one moment away from being in that same situation. Absolutely. I don't know that I would have made it through college, right? If I had a family, I would have totally put it off to the side and thought, well, that that messes that up. I'm gonna need to do trick, you know, change my plans and do something different because I have kids. Right. And tell them that's that's what I see is oh my goodness, if someone is doing it while they're raising their family or going back to get the next thing after they've already had their family, whatever the situation is, I know that I would not have been successful on my own. And so helping someone else get to do it, that's what why we want to do it, even without knowing them. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Go back and tell them that I will. But it's it's just a great organization. And it's so specific. That's the thing. Like you know, when you're donating to single parent scholarship, you know exactly what it's going for. And it's to support uh a man or a woman who are raising their family on their own, but also juggling school and their job and all the things. Like you know exactly that it's helping them uh reach their goal or reach their dream of becoming a nurse or becoming a school teacher or becoming a doctor or counselor. I know y'all have had several that are now counselors. I do, yes. And one more thing before we move on. There's a therapy or counseling program that y'all offer. We do, yes. That's that's one thing that others might not realize. And so maybe just hint on what that service is that y'all provide with, you know, the single parents if they need.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So we have a mental health counselor, and she is um licensed and certified for all types of counseling. So she can do play therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, some trauma therapy. Um, and so she really can work with all of our recipients and their children. And it's free of charge for our recipients or for our single parent and for our children or for their children. I'm sorry. Um, and it could be maybe they need a session every week or every two weeks, but it could be like they just need one session to come in and talk about anxiety that they're feeling about finals that are coming up, or to work through something and it might take three times. So it's not like you have to come every week for the whole time you're in the program and it's not mandatory at all. It's just a service that we offer because we feel like it helps our single parents be more successful because they can work through any things that are troubling them while they're going to school. And I'm sure, you know, they have a lot on their plate. So there's um everything. So she works a lot on time management and boundaries and anxiety. Um, yeah, so a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_00

Because the stress of parenting when you're under stress. Yeah. He's not your best self. And so you just, if you could come talk to someone. But also, yeah, if they're children, like like one of those um diagnoses like sensory processing disorder. It's one of those things we don't care as much about. It's underlying, like it's not like um something that you immediately say, oh, we know exactly what this is. It's hidden in like other forms, like uh tags bother the back of their neck from the clothes or whatever. And they're acting out in all these ways. And when it's play therapy that helps it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so what if they could just bring their child to single parent to get the counsel? Can they get and they can for their for their kids? Yeah, it's a support, it's another support mechanism for the whole thing so that they're not having to go and make that appointment somewhere else and they may not have resources.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and if they don't have insurance or um, you know, or the waiting list is so long at places we know it's just it's really hard to get appointments sometimes. And so we have that available to them. So it's more than just a scholarship.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And it's it's the support system for all of things. All of the things. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, now we did talk about you were in development, but um now how many years, but just recently was that how what month was that that you transitioned to? So it was the very end of July last year. So I mean, really truly the beginning of August. Oh-huh. Um, tell us about that because she's her new role is is it CEO? Yeah, yeah. CEO. And um, I bet you didn't wake up one day and decide, I want to be CEO. I did not.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I loved fundraising. And so I don't think I ever really had envisioned that I would, you know, ever get out of. The great thing about being CEO is that so much of your job is still fundraising.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

That I still get to do that part of that nonprofit work that I love so much and it was really my base for my career. Um, but the great thing about being CEO is that I get to take a deeper dive into finding ways to help our families and do things differently. Um, and to find like the talents that the team has and to try to help um encourage them to develop in different ways. And so that's been really exciting. But so I'll say, um, so I had the opportunity to apply for the CEO position. We had transition and um I'll say it was really encouraging because there were a couple people who were donors and supporters that reached out to me and said, Are you gonna apply for this? And I was like, Really? You think I should? Um and yes, we did. Um, and so it was really like having that positive encouragement was really was was really helpful. Um, and so I started to think about it like, what could I do in that role that would benefit the organization? Because truly, I don't know if y'all can tell, but I really love single parent scholarship bug. Um, it just speaks to my heart. I love our mission. I love, I love what we do. And so I just thought, well, if this is gonna give me an opportunity to help our single parent families in a new way, then I'm up to that challenge. And so I applied, and many people applied, um, internally and externally. And um there was, I had to learn some patience. I'm not great with waiting on things, but that was fun. Yeah. Um, but our board did such a tremendous job of truly like vetting all the candidates. And so um they were thorough. They were thorough, yes, and they should be because this is a, you know, I mean, that's a big decision for them to make for an organization. Um, and so I was really honored when they offered the role to me. Um, and honored that they felt like I had the ability to to meet the challenge and and to take the organization forward. And so um it's been great. It's been not quite a year yet. Um and it seems wild that it's already been that long. Um, and I'll say I was probably a little cocky at first thinking, well, I've worked here for eight years. I know what I know everything. Oh, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00

Uh and y'all were in the middle of the capital campaign. Yes. Um which we're we're supposed to get to at some point, which we went. Yes, but but also just what you just to touch on what you said about your fundraising still carries over into the CEO role. Yes. Um, I wanted to be sure and say that um the CEOs that I know of our organizations around here and other places, if they were in the development role before, it adds such a layer of expertise in how to support development because a lot of CEOs don't have any idea about fundraising and they've told themselves fundraising is not my thing. I'm not, I don't want to do the fundraising. I just want to tell you what we need. Right. And they want the development people to do all that. But you're so much more successful if you're CEO, if you're in tandem with your development person or a development team. Yes. Because then you know why they're scheduling things a certain way, you know why they're wording things a certain way, why they care what marketing's doing. Yes. All of those things. And you get it. And I think there are a lot of CEOs that have never been in development. And so they're constantly second guessing, what why are they asking me to write this thank you note? Or why in the world do I need to be there at eight o'clock in the morning? Because I no one gets, I mean, I've got all this other stuff to do, these fires to put out, but people want to see the CEO. Yes. And they love the development people, but when you're together, it's like chef's kiss, you know? So that's a that's a whole thing that's gonna be really beneficial for the organization is the fact that you've got the development expertise under your belt to now move into this role because you'll be able to work in tandem with the development department. And let's face it, if we want to keep doing all these great things that y'all are doing, we gotta have development. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Um, so we're pulling back, like I we're talking about the campaign, yeah, but instead of talking About like Capital Campaigns 101. Today we're pulling back the secret curtain about within the capital campaign, after you start getting pledges and stuff, in this area, there are there's several ways you can get challenge grants. But one, the biggest or largest foundation that provides them for organizations in Arkansas is the Maybe Foundation. And they're out of Tulsa. Yes. And when I did my capital campaign back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, um, we also got a Maybe challenge, but I have a feeling things have changed and shifted. I sure I'm sure the people, well, I'll just tell you guys, when we went over to visit, I think you could still smoke in their office. It was a lot of old different time. It was a different time. But it honestly, smoking was not really allowed anymore, but they were still doing it, if that makes any sense. That'd be funny, the old guys from Tulsa or whatever. But I know things have probably evolved since then because that was back in 2009, 2010. Things have changed. And so I want the excitement and the challenge and the whole thing. I want us to talk about this challenge grant, like how y'all decided to go for it. Um, you know, what they are, why they matter, how they energize the campaign, how they give us the real stories from the trench, like we're doing the real story from the trenches of fundraising. Yeah. Um, so that's what I want to the first thing I guess we can say is what is a challenge grant and talk about let's define that in simple terms. Yeah. You know, for those that haven't experienced this before.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So a challenge grant in very simple terms is they um sh said, we will give you X dollars if you can raise this amount by um in one year. So essentially that was it. 12 months. You have 12 months to raise X dollars, and then they will give you uh so for our for our example, we had to raise 1.8, a little over 1.8 million in the 12-month time period, and then we would get $1 million from them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that's in very simple terms. Now with Maybe Foundation, I'll say the great thing, go to their website because they put all the guidelines right on their website. They're so upfront with information, reach out to them. They've got the contact information on the website, reach out to them, ask them questions. Because I will say when we started the campaign, um, and so if you've never done a campaign, there's a lot of planning process first. So before you start asking for money, yes, don't do that, guys. Yes, put a plan in place first. Uh-huh. There's a there's a quiet phase, but there's even a planning phase before the quiet phase. Yes, yes. So in that planning phase, we knew we wanted to ask maybe we wanted to submit a grant to maybe for a challenge grant. Um, and so very early on, we were reading their guidelines, finding out their information. Because here's the reason. So for maybe, um you don't ask, you don't submit your grant until you're at least at 40%. And they really like it to be their sweet spot is between 40 and 60%. So if you get to 80% and submit it, that's probably not good either. You might have bust your window. Um, and so, and the purpose for their grant also is to show the community support behind your project. So they want to support your project, but they also want you to show them that the community is supporting your project. So they have guidelines on um things that you can include in your budget to them. They have guidelines on gifts that cannot count. So for instance, you can't count state and federal gifts. Right. You can't count money that you have in reserve to go to your campaign. You can't just say, oh, we got this random uh bequest gift and we're now gonna apply it to that. So you do need to go early on and read their guidelines and find out the information so that you can plan the timeline of how you're gonna ask.

SPEAKER_00

And I think they have they have some rules about you can't have uh purchased your land yet. Is that still one of them? So there's something about it. They don't apply the land.

SPEAKER_01

So we have so you don't count that in your budget. So we had already um purchased the land and had um, well, before we at before we submitted our grant, we had already done that. But you cannot have signed a contract with a construction company before you submit. So you so again, go read the guidelines.

SPEAKER_00

Read their guidelines because the timing is everything. So you have your land, but you you can't uh have started in with your construction people and signed all that stuff yet. Right. They like to be in on all that part too.

SPEAKER_01

They just yeah, and I mean they don't add like we didn't have to go through them for approval of who our construction company would be. They just want to make sure um that that's not finalized beforehand.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, so it's very true. There are a lot of little tikky things that you've got to go in the and see their guidelines so you know how to plan. Absolutely. Um plan, plan, plan and read the guidelines a whole bunch. Like um we had a spreadsheet that was called Maybe Spreadsheet. Yes, and then we had another spreadsheet called Overall Campaign Spreadsheet. Yeah, because they are different. Um, we were um very grateful that the City of Rogers, because of where we were in Rogers, um, we got CDBG grants. That's community development block, community block development, what C D B G, whatever that put those in the relevant block community development block grants. Yeah. And we were eligible for those through the city of Rogers, which was very beneficial to the campaign. Yes. But they did not count toward maybe because they were from a government federal or uh state right landing. Yes. So they went in that other spreadsheet. Yes. Um, and so you and it sounds to me like what they're really wanting you to do is spread philanthropy throughout other channels in order to promote more philanthropy, which is what that all is about. Yeah, it sounds very ticky, but it's really their their reasoning for doing it benefits the so smart. Yeah, because they're willing to reach out past the norms and get regular people to be a part of the campaign. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, and I think also it helps you when you're thinking about, you know, you're going through this new project and new building, who's going to support you after that? And so it really is a great, like they want to see that community support because they know that in long term, you're going to be a sustainable organization because the community has supported you.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And they only do capital, they don't do enrowment campaigns or operations that they do capital campaigns or building campaigns, um, renovation, building renovations, and medical equipment, I think are the three areas that they fund. And that's it. And then they have focus areas as well for like the types of organizations. So education is a track for them. Um, so again, all on their website. So we fit in as part of our, you know, because we're providing scholarships for recipients. I will say they were also great early on to say wording is important in your grant. So to so that it wasn't confused that we were asking for scholarship funding because we're a scholarship program, to make it very clear early on in the grant application that this is for a building campaign so it didn't get kicked out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah. So talk to the, you know, talk to the people there. They're very helpful.

SPEAKER_00

I call those the gatekeepers. Yes. Become friends with the gatekeepers. As a matter of fact, when I talk about stewardship at other times, I've always said the VIP donors that are in your top 40 or whatever that are giving you the most, there's a there's a list of people that may not be writing you a check directly, but they need to be in that VIP circle. And that's the gatekeeper at the foundations that need to be treated as if they are writing the check from those organizations because they're the ones that can casually say to the foundation board, you know, hey, we got an update from single parent scholarship fund last week and they just moved into their building. Like, because you're they're getting all the information from the organization. So you keep them at the top of your list. Yeah, it's a little with me personally, but they are relaying your message and feeling comfortable with you if you continue to keep them included. Um, why do you think foundations use chat? I mean, do you think we touched on why they use challenge grants? I mean, the first one is I think they love to promote philanthropy from other channels, but also they want to be more of a partner instead of a all like they don't want to fund it all because it generates, like you said, it generates the organization branching out and casting a wider net. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really I think that's it. Um, how do you think this motivated your donors?

SPEAKER_01

I think it was really motivated because when you can say like your gift is helping us get a million dollars, like that's really motivating. So you're not only like making a gift, but your gift's being doubled. I mean, there's so many ways that you can that you can um help promote that challenge in a way to get people to give. And so I think it energized them. I mean, anytime like if somebody said, Oh, I can make a gift of 5,000 and that's gonna help you get a million dollars, wow, I want to do that. Like, I mean, so I think that is extremely motivating and um yeah, and and so it bring it builds excitement for the donor that they're part of something, not only their gift, but it it's creating a bigger impact. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, like in Duane and I, like when we're when there's an urgency there, you know, we're horrible about saying, oh yeah, yeah, we're gonna, we gotta do that. Yeah. And and like, but when a challenge grant comes up, it's like, okay, we keep saying that we're gonna, we gotta sit down and decide it because their deadline is such and such date. Yes. And so I think it gives us urgency um because we realize, okay, we can't just sit back and wait and see and oh yeah, I mean, can men mean to do that? Like it helps the donors realize they're if we don't get it in right now, we're not helping get the challenge. Right. And you know, and so I think that's why it's so beneficial to those that already know they're gonna give, they just don't quite get around to it. Yeah, it gives a deadline and a final, like, okay, we everybody, it's time to really do it. Yes. Whether it was a thousand dollars, whether it was five thousand dollars, whether it was one hundred dollars, please do it by Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01

You know, yes. And I'll say the other great thing about this challenge is that we could take pledges. So it wasn't just like, hey, the community has to give all this all up front. Um, so maybe it does allow for you to take pledges um for those gifts. So the whole, the whole pledge amount counts up front for their challenge and they can be paid out over five years. So and and that was huge because then you can also market that like you can make a bigger impact because your gift can be paid out over time.

SPEAKER_00

If you if you can pay over the next three to five years or whatever the schedule is, that whole amount will count towards maybe. Yes. So if you're doing a $25,000 gift, but you're gonna pay us $5,000 for five years, the $25 is what counts for maybe. Yeah. That's another that that was so good for us too, because we had several people. We had one group that were in a pledge with mercy. And they said, Well, we want to pledge to your campaign, but we can't start our payments till you know, it's like five or three or four years down the road. And we said, that's fine. Right. And we like wrote it down and they were part of the maybe challenge, even though their payments didn't start till the campaign was almost over. Yeah. But they needed to pay their other pledge for it was awesome. And I just thought, I love this. Yeah, I love this so much. Yeah. Um, let's see. So we talked about like what they are, how they made us, you know. Um, oh, this was a good one. We we kind of hit on it, but like um internally for the staff and the board morale, what did it do when y'all, first of all, like when the moment when maybe said, okay, guys, we're gonna give you this if you do that. Yeah, like how did that light a fire it light a fire under everybody's? So I'll just we were so excited.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, when you think like, wow, we have this opportunity to get a million dollars, because you're still like you're still going out to, we still needed to raise that 1.8. No matter no matter what. So to have this challenge, I think really just accelerates you so that you don't go, well, we don't need to make any calls this week. Like, no, we're making calls every week because we've got to get there. Um, and I won't say we did a great job of that every day, but because you have, you do, I mean, in all honesty, there were moments where I was like, we're never gonna get there. I mean, give up today. Um, but that's a great thing about having a team and a board that is supportive because when you're having that day, then somebody else on the team steps up to say, nope, we're we we can do this. And when they're having that day, you step up for them. So um I think having everybody engaged in that is really, really important and helpful.

SPEAKER_00

And boost it boosted morale. Absolutely. If if Wednesday was your day to be, oh, we're never gonna make it, that was somebody else's day. And then the next day they might be, oh, we're never gonna make it. And somebody else would say, Okay, both of you, snap out of it. We gotta do your own list. Yeah, yeah. Anybody you want to shout out? Well, I will so please do. Yeah, because I I remember the day that I heard, I was so proud of this story.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. To hear your own way. When we got to the very end of our uh challenge with maybe which was last week, by the way. So our challenge grant ended on May 20th. And on May 19th, um I was at orientation with my son for college and trying to uh also work, but um, and so I should say on May 18th, I was just like, oh, I'm I was in that I'm giving up mode. And I just was like, oh, we're not gonna make it. We still had $590,000 to go. Wow. And we had two days to get there. And so literally, literally two days. Yes. Yeah. So on Monday, I was feeling very defeated. Um, and I will say, uh, so that was Monday, Tuesday, Tuesday morning. Um, Steven and I had so the other great part about our story, so let me rewind. Yeah. Um was uh the Willard and Pat Walker uh charitable foundation came in early on for our campaign um to be our lead donor for the campaign. And so they have just been a tremendous supporter, and Mandy has been amazing to work with and has been through our transitions and has been so supportive.

SPEAKER_00

And Miss Pat loved this organism, like she loved this, yeah. So it's a great fit, and they are wonderful.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And so, um, and and so on Tuesday, we were like, well, we need to talk to Mandy and just kind of give her a heads up, get her thoughts. Um, and so we called Stephen, Stephen Hines that works with me. Um, he's our senior director of major gifts. Um, and he and I called Mandy Tuesday morning. So this is May 19th. Yeah, deadline May 20th. Yeah, 590,000 to go. Yeah. Um and um she was like, well, is your, you know, does your board know where you're at? And we're like, yeah, they know where we're at. And you know, have you talked to maybe? Are there any extra things? So we were like, you know, so she just offered up a great, just great advice, great ideas. Um, but also I think that helped light a little bit of a fire in us too. And Steven, I will say this is my shout out for Steven because you know, Monday I was ready to give up and we talked with Mandy, and Steven was like, nope, we're just gonna keep going. Like, we've got this, we can do this. And truly, that was the day that so that morning I was like, okay, Steven, Steven's motivated me. He's on this. Like he was like, Here, I'm gonna help you, like, I'm gonna draft this email up for you to share with the board. He did, it was great because again, I'm like, you know, half I'm on PTO technically. I was the hardest I worked on PTO my whole life, right? Like another perk of being the CEO, right? Yeah. Um and so it was just absolutely tremendous because he he never gave up. So I will say I probably gave up more times than anybody. Um Stephen was there to say never gave up. No, like he's like, I've called this person 18 times this week and I'm waiting on a response. And um, so watching how he was just like never giving in and continuing to go really did motivate me. Um, and we would not have made it if it had not been for Steven on Tuesday morning.

SPEAKER_00

I really truly believe that. So I love that story, and I I can just hear him saying, not an option, Frankie. We're gonna keep going. Yeah, we're gonna keep going. But I also love that, you know, we just talked about the people at the foundations, yeah, how we need those relationships. So it wasn't like y'all called Mandy to say, hey, write us another check. Right. You literally called to strategize and brainstorm and help us think through what have we not thought of. What have we not thought of? And then there she was to give you guidance, encouragement, say, nope, not an option to give up. We're gonna do these things and y'all need to push and push and push. And then um, I I love that story too, because once again, you you came back to one of your biggest, largest supporters for advice, right? Not for more money, right? And she was great.

SPEAKER_01

She was like, Well, let me know where you're at by the end of the day, and you know, I'll I'll think about, you know, I'll just continue to think about what other options you can do. What we can do, right? How you know how we can meet what's the Hail Mary? You know, what's that? Yeah, and so it was so great. And so it was also great at the end of the day on Tuesday to be able to email her and say, you know what, we met the match, like we met the challenge. Um, so that was really exciting as well to be able to share that with her. So yeah. Um, which that day we raised $590,000, actually a little bit more than that, um, to get us over into the to to finish off the maybe challenge. And there had been so many, I mean, we had been kind of holding and holding there for a little bit. And it was just like, but every gift of $100 mattered, every gift of a thousand dollars mattered. And so it wasn't like we were just like, we can only get these giant gifts. No, it was about people in the community coming together and making a gift. And we reached out to donors and said, Would you consider making a second gift? Yeah, like you've already completed and fulfilled your gift, would you make an an additional gift?

SPEAKER_00

We did that in my and my maybe challenge as well. Yes. And so many were like, Oh, I get it. Yes. Well, if and and some of them would say, We can't double it now, but can we just double them in the years? Like, can we just keep paying extra years? Oh, our same payment. And we said, sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, you know, there were there were all shapes and sizes. Yeah, that's what we're saying. There's all shapes and sizes to get you to the end.

SPEAKER_01

And just make sure all those things fit within the guidelines that you're given by the foundation that you're working with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So okay, I'm tremendous. We're gonna come back right back. I'm gonna take a minute to uh, you know, pause for a sponsor moment. So uh so hey you if you enjoy this podcast, the biggest thing you can do is share it with other people. The Ask Allison podcast comes out every month, and we're always needing new listeners and more listeners and more downloads. So share it. If it's something that was interesting to you, please share it with others. And if you would like to be a sponsor of the podcast, there are all kinds of flexible plans and sponsorship opportunities for the podcast. Just reach out to me at askallison at allisonmackelroy.org and let's get you set up to be a sponsor. And then in this moment of the podcast, we would be talking about you and what you have to offer instead of more about the podcast. So reach out to me if you have any questions about being a sponsor of the podcast, and please share it with your friends. Okay. Now, um let's talk about the emotional roller coaster that campaigns can be. Yes. We said it a lot and how the uh economic uh climate also affects, you know, when you're in the middle of the challenge grant or not, anything. Right. And right now, you know, we're in a roller coaster with that. Yeah. So y'all are just navigating all that stuff. Um, and and just because you got the maybe challenge, which is a huge celebration, how much is left on the campaign now? Right.

SPEAKER_01

So now we have about it's uh 720,000 or so left on that. Um and so I will say kind of to the economic challenge. So we got our maybe so there's also um application deadlines for the maybe challenge. So that's part of your planning because you have to be that 40 to per to 60% and they only review them quarterly. So you have to submit it quarterly. So you do have to be really careful of where you're at and pay attention to those deadlines. So we submitted ours and we found out in April that we were receiving the grant. We went public with our campaign in June. So we had been in the quiet phase all through that process of applying um we probably applied when we were close to about 50% um and then we went when we got word that we were gonna you know have the challenge grant opportunity um we went public with our campaign. And so um which is great timing. Yes great timing. Yes yeah um so it was June when we did our official public launch um you know and then that had been and and kind of you know coming up last year and I don't ever remember dates and times very well. But you know, so that was June of 25. Um we also had gone through transition so we were in the midst of um searching for and hiring a CEO so we didn't have one at that time. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um so the staff was was navigating the ship yes and running things um beautifully for that kind of transition. Um and then you had your launch and your right your big public you know I remember being there and that was under a tent on the land.

SPEAKER_01

Yes yeah yes yeah um and so so we were navigating that transition as well as launching the campaign and then um and and then also the economy is at a time where so for instance other nonprofits are you know we're hearing things about federal cuts coming up for federal grant cuts and how is that going to impact people. And so I'll say at the beginning of our public phase was a really rocky time because donors were kind of like keeping their money close to their chest, you know, I mean just like they weren't sure what how things were gonna were gonna roll out for some of the nonprofits that they were supporting. We had some of our donors say we're gonna pause on giving right now until we see how organizations are impacted by some of these cuts and affected um and so that was a really challenging time especially when we're in the midst of this challenge grant where we are we know we've got 12 months to raise these funds and and now donors are kind of like hesitant. So so that was that was pretty stressful. And I think too because we were in transition they're like well how's how are things going to go with the organization? We didn't have a CEO yet. True um and so just a lot of transition. So I would say I wouldn't recommend doing all those things like we did. Yeah um don't go through a lot of transition when you're in the midst of a bullying campaign but it was you know I mean that's just where we were at it's a testimony and and a testament to campaigns are hard and a lot of times you know what happens I I would like to say the word shit happens right especially right in the middle of your capital campaign.

SPEAKER_00

Right. With ours it was the 2008 building crisis. Right and we thought what's gonna happen we still did it. Yeah and um we hear this all the time about like some people take off not not ask as much during the summer because schedules and whatever don't let don't let people trick you into thinking there's a bad time to ask for money. Right there's not every day's a great day to ask for money. Donors are savvy enough and smart enough to say to you not a good time right now but we're gonna once we get through following this thing that we're following with the economy we'll we'll we're gonna come back to you and tell you what we can do. Absolutely like they're not saying no never they're just saying it so there's always it's always a lot smoother than you would think times times are hard. But you still just make you make it through right absolutely and and I'm glad that you said this because my next question was what would you tell organizations who are going through a slower season in a campaign there always is a plateau or kind of a dead time and it's like oh goodness yeah and and you might have a couple of those you know throughout you'll get like oh we're energized again and this is great and thing and and so I mean I think that's just to be expected. So the advice is don't be shocked if that you hit a plateau or hit a slower or an economic thing or a staff change or whatever the thing is you can navigate through it and we just need to all be like Steven. Right. Don't give up yeah there's not it's not an option. Right. When you think about the people you serve it's not an option to give up you have to keep going absolutely you have to keep going.

SPEAKER_01

Well and I think too the great thing um like so we had some of our board who are much more financially savvy than I am. You know, they're like yes there's the inflation's up and all these things and people are a little bit nervous but also the stock market's doing really well. So like that's an area where we we we were like well let's focus on people that maybe have gifts of stock that they could contribute. And so you just have to really kind of think through all the options and adjust um to meet you know where where people are at.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Right. So um this my notes you know it says campaigns rarely move in a straight line is that not the truth that's a roller coaster yes and talk about you know did you guys go use your own counseling services during the time like I thank goodness y'all have that built in because I would I'd be like need to talk well we can't do that but that would be great. Yeah if you could wouldn't that be great yes but yeah I mean it's like they're never just nothing about fundraising is ever a straight line or no it's it's just not and but then I you know but the thing is you're gonna get that person that's gonna say yes and then that build your excitement back up.

SPEAKER_01

And so I'll say we did we had some lulls but then we had a donor who said you know what let so we had a challenge grant within our challenge grant. And it was very exciting and it really built some momentum for us. So we had um a friend of ours and a donor of the organization Chris and Janae Gilreith were our donors who really stepped up and said you know what we want to make a gift to the campaign but we would love to find a way for it to be a matching gift. And so they um so they pledged a $50,000 matching gift and we did a three day um challenge and really pushed it out on social media um to meet this $50,000 match and it was tremendous. It worked for her inner circle of people. Yes it was so great and I'll say it even worked like other people were so excited and they like we had so many people that were making additional gifts to get the to get the match in place. So we actually raised so they gave us 50 and then we did a little over a hundred thousand on top of their 50 oh through that through that matching campaign. And so it really lit like a fire I think in us to see like no people are still excited about this and still want this to happen. And so that was a moment of excitement that helped us like move forward to that next level.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah yeah I know I loved it I loved it because I'm friends with Janae. Yes so I was I was tickled to death and thought what a great idea yes um and and it just goes to show donor relationships still matter the most even during uncertainty. Absolutely I think even more during uncertainty they matter the most because the trans transparency that y'all gave built the trust yeah instead of acting like everything's okay you just told the donors here's where we are everybody roll your sleeves up we got to do it and they thought to do this challenge grant yeah within the challenge yeah yeah yeah um um that the one thing that I thought of is fundraising although we want it to be magical it's rarely magic it's really the relationships persistence and continuing to show up yeah and following your plan and following the plan.

SPEAKER_01

Yes I mean I think people a lot of times like people don't realize that fundraising really is a plan and it's there's science involved and there's you know I mean it is an art and a science um and you have to you have to be able to follow that plan to be successful. You can't just like you know right willy-nilly kind of go through it.

SPEAKER_00

So and your plan might not match the donor's passion that day right but it always comes back if you continue to be consistent. Right. Yeah yeah um I realize you know we're running out of time as usual of course but I sorry I've got to get to the part about the power of board connections and relationships because in the final hour so we've talked about Mandy was there. We talked about Janae and Chris their challenge within a challenge but in the final hours there was the moment and what that gift and that person that sent it over the edge and how that all happened. Yes you could tell us about so that was May the 19th May the 19th May the 19th will live with us for infinity or whatever. Tell us about that how it all came to pass in the final moments and the big the big thing that happened.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah so we have a board member so I will say this first so because so many people and I've heard so many board members say you know I just don't want a fundraise and I don't feel comfortable asking for money. And I just want to say you don't have to ask for money. That is our job but you have to help with the relationship. And so that's really and we have a board member who has done a phenomenal job of finding a way that works well for him to share his passion for what we do. And he shares that with people regularly and then you know sometimes he shares it with somebody that says that's I love how passionate you are about that I want to support that too. And then he does a great job of making introductions and handoffs and um so we have a we have a board member who has done this um he has connected us with a friend of his who doesn't live in the area any longer. Okay. So not even in Arkansas um and he has given us a few gifts over the last couple of years and really great gifts over the last couple of years. And so our board members like you know I really think um you know you should probably reach out to him and just see if there's any interest. And so I said okay so for two weeks we played phone tag and finally on May 19th at four o'clock I'm sitting in orientation with my son listening to how I'm supposed to pay for college and um all the things and and you know where his whatever um probably half paying attention honestly. So I see oh I just missed a call from this donor that I'd been had called multiple times that day. I'm gonna step out and call him back. So I called back he answered thankfully um and I just told him I said hey here's where we're at we've got um 2000 left to go on this campaign and um you know tomorrow's our deadline so you know we kind of we we did have some you know general conversation too but um and he said well let me tell you what why don't you just go enjoy dinner tonight and I'll take care of it and so I just I mean and you know truly it was like the second time I'd ever spoken to this donor but he conveyed how much our board member loves the organization talks about the organization has shared great stories about recipients that we've helped and all those things mattered to him. And so he was gonna help finish that campaign off because that board member had done such a great job of sharing our work with him. And so what an exciting day it was just like one you're so proud of your board member for doing such great work and rock staring possible for us to get this challenge.

SPEAKER_00

So people give through relationships. Yes and I think board members don't realize that a lot of times if they put their stamp on something and they're passionate about it, how it inspires others to do that just because they love you. They love you and they want to do what you think is great. Yes they may not have found that for themselves yet or they may have their favorite thing too and you then learn about that you know another way around but yeah they open the doors that that's the main thing the connection is often more important than perfection. We try Linda and I tried to say her biggest piece of advice last month was literally not worrying about how perfect the whole presentation needs to be literally just talk about whose board you're on and why you serve on it. It's not about perfection it's about connection and relationship. It's storytelling and trust and sometimes the biggest gifts come from the most unexpected places because I bet you and Steven when him you know him saying we can do it, we can do it, he wasn't thinking somebody from another state is going to give you $200,000. Right. It was hopeful but you know y'all didn't wake up that day thinking that was going to be wrong. No, no and that's certainly not what I anticipated him to say at all. No and I always tell boards when I'm doing that rock star board member training you may not have to make the ask yourself ever but your connections can completely change the outcome of a coming a campaign. Absolutely yeah yeah because it's literally about saying I need to introduce y'all by email because I want her to get you know tell you everything I've been trying to say that I probably am I'm not saying it right, but I want you to hear it from Alison or I want to hear it from Frankie. And don't we love to say it?

SPEAKER_01

I mean we love to tell to to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00

So it's great. Yes. Um so we've probably said a lot of this but what do you think this challenge grant taught the organization like like truly I think patience and perseverance you know I just feel like again it's just been such an interesting time frame.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah you know it really has so like I think for me because I was going through you know I'm like I've I'd taken on a new role and we're still trying to do this. And also we had a great staff member who was on a a contract with us as part of the campaign and so um so Stacy um was a team member for us and was managing the campaign and so and then in March was her the end of her contract and so she you know so she left in March. And so there was more transition. Yeah so so even more transition. So I think just like realizing that you know there is gonna be there are going to be a lot of challenges you're gonna have you know you're gonna have these obstacles but that doesn't mean that you can't be successful and that you can't do it. Right. It just you know you just have to really truly keep moving forward and continuing to share the stories to share the mission and to find the people that are passionate about it and want to support it.

SPEAKER_00

So and she was integral she was intrical part of the whole campaign but it it it was always help us with this campaign and that her date was over yeah and she it was time for her to move on right but oh my gosh what if she hadn't been there like the you know leading up to it. So absolutely amazing amazing and and you just gave the encouragement to other nonprofit leaders um no matter if they're in a campaign or not it some days are going to be really great and some days are going to be the you think it's the low of lows. Yeah but it's always going to shift because I really feel like it's because what you're doing is good in the universe. Yeah and so yes there are going to be really crappy days in fundraising and nonprofit work and all of it but um for all those days there's gonna be probably two that are highlights like calls from another state with $200,000. You're gonna have those days too right you know yeah so just hang in there and celebrate your wins.

SPEAKER_01

Like don't forget to celebrate along the way because I think that's really important and that helps energize your team and your board also.

SPEAKER_00

And this is what a campaign we we need them because we're needing something extra outside of the everyday budget. And so explaining that we still need your annual gift this is a separate new gift or the building or the van or the whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And so you've you're navigating that but the campaign strengthens your organization because the the years to come you've got new donors that got involved for this special occasion that stay involved. Yeah and their campaign pledges turn into major gifts on the years that after the campaign's over and those relationships are so important toward and stuff. Absolutely it it it built confidence momentum all of it campaigns are good things. They're just they are like we said they're not a straight line it's not a calm time it's a roller coaster that you gotta like you know definitely buckle down and be ready for and relationships are everything and persistence and patience pays off. And so I'm we're getting to the fun part of the podcast well this whole thing was fun because it was Frankie but just hanging there and and I've never been more excited to hear the story of y'all you know Frankie giving up I'm done like we can't do it. Call maybe tell them as Steven's saying yes we can we're gonna do this and then the man you know she finally gets to talk to the man on the last day before it's over and or woman we didn't say family whoever it was and they call and say you know what we're gonna finish that whole amount and you just go to dinner tonight and have a restful evening with your family. I mean talk about a real win. That's why I wanted Frankie to be here today because the story is just so amazing and we will probably circle back at some point and just talk about campaigns in general like is it time for you to have one that planning that we've talked about how important that is never jump into a campaign without thought before it because um ultimately if you're not ready to follow those seven steps of a capital campaign you will end up taking longer and uh you'll have some harder mountains to climb if you don't follow the steps of a capital campaign. And I say that so much with boards. But okay so the podcast is called Ask Alison yes so um what I try to give each guest an opportunity to ask me any question before we're done and it doesn't have to be on topic at all. It can be a random like what shampoo do you use? I don't care but you get to ask me you get to ask Allison whatever you want it's your turn.

SPEAKER_01

Well so I was like I was gonna ask a real goofy one like who was your favorite roommate at AFP iCloud but Frankie. Yeah um but I the one that keeps coming back to me because I I always love to hear people's story what was the most meaningful gift that you ever helped secure oh goodness you know there there are so many.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah there are so many um but one that was just monumental was we had um a participant at Open Avenues um I think back then they were called clients but someone in our program getting services and her mom was part of the founding families that founded Adult Development Center. And over the years she always donated she always made sure that you know she'd write a gift every year. Sometimes they were larger um I think before I came along if the center hit a a rough spot sometimes uh she could just be called and make it all okay like she but she truly she literally was one of the founding families because um they were all children that had different abilities and then they were becoming adults and there were no programs for adults with different abilities. So they started at the first Christian church there on 13th and oak where I go to church now. Yeah doing some uh small tasks for community leaders or community places or some days it might have been arts and crafts but they started very small in in one of the Classrooms at the church. And then they began doing work for companies in Rogers and in Northwest Arkansas. And it just grew and grew and grew. They, you know, and then they ended up at the building on Dixieland Road. But um, Miss Highbreeder was her name, Vera, and she was very supportive of several organizations in Rogers. But when um the campaign happened, she made a large gift and we named the reception area after Miss Highbreeder. And that was one at I do have to tell, there were so many. There's so many. Um, one of our campaign uh chair people was Rhonda Woodruff, and her brother passed away during our campaign, and Rhonda must have talked to him. His name was Quintus Cruz, and she must have talked to him like board members should. And so uh all of a sudden, when his plans came out, he had left open avenues in his estate plan. Okay. And so the vestibule was named after Quintus. But that was all because of Rhonda. Yeah. And her relationship with her brother and the campaign. And then the third one, because there's and there's more, I'm gonna forget.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I was always on the Chamber of Commerce um ambassadors and blue coat committee. And that, y'all, that was back in the early 2000s. And so I got to know a lady named Martha Rose, and we were on that committee together. And one year she'd just seen me so much at stuff, but you know, my husband Dwayne, he doesn't like to go to all that stuff. He works hard at his job and he's peopled out by five o'clock. So I always just went with Corey or with you. Like we went to the chamber stuff to do our because that's part of our job to meet the people. And one year, I when she figured out I was pregnant, she was like, I didn't even know you had a husband. It was so funny. But Martha and I got to know each other. Everybody, Martha was one of those, she was a character. Yeah, she was curious, said everything right. If it she thought it, it came right out of her mouth, whether it was appropriate or not. And I love that, by the way. Um, the year, um, but there was a year, like so. When I started having kids, I wasn't able to go to all that stuff anymore. I don't know if you went through that too, but like I used to be at every ribbon cutting, every groundbreaking, every business after hours, every committee meeting. But at some point, when you start raising your family, you just have to pick and choose. And I wasn't able to be at that stuff anymore. We we kind of lost touch. Yeah. But I decided one week to go to a ribbon cutting because I hadn't been in a while, and she was there and she looked different. She still looked beautiful, but she looked different. And she told me that she had an illness and it was terminal. And I was like, Oh, Martha, you know, I've missed you so much. I'm so sorry to hear. And then a couple of years went by, she she passed away. Yeah. And all of a sudden, we heard from her financial people, and it was all about because back in the blue coat, I remembered the conversation. She said, I want to hear more about Adult Development Center. You keep showing up and you say that's where you work, but I don't know what it is. And so one day I just told her all about the center, and I think I got her there for a tour and some years, many, many years. Yeah. And then when she passed, so the um there was a, I think our the big room in open avenues. Yeah. Um, where they the commons is what we called it group. They eat lunch and they have big luncheons and stuff, and they had the big kitchen back there. That was named after Martha Rose. I love it. I think. Well, if I don't have it right, because it's been a lot, I've slept a lot since she had a large naming opportunity, and her name is on something in open avenues. Because I think maybe the maybe, I think maybe was that named the commons. Yeah. Okay. Because it's such a big space. Yeah. Maybe named that. So I think Martha was another area close by there. That's incredible. Anyway, that's those are three meaningful ones in that particular campaign. There are so many more. Yeah. Um, but anyway, I love being in fundraising and I love helping development people and nonprofit leaders not uh jump off the ledge. Yeah, I'm here for you. And so that brings me to, you know, mark your calendars for the next episode because it always comes out on the 7th. So this will, this is airing today on June the 7th. And um we'll be back in July 7th. So just mark your calendar. It comes out at seven in the morning because I like sevens. Um, but thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. I know you could listen to anything in your car or anything in the world while you're doing whatever you're doing, but I'm glad you chose this because it's always so fun. And remember, if you need me for therapy, all you have to do is ask Allison.