The Quest for Silver with Chris Tuffer Episode 38

Again we have a Podcast of a different sort to the usual on our Quest for Silver - it is a lengthy interview with Rufus Wainwright who was raised in Montreal and due to a very musical family he quite naturally evolved into an amazing singer song writer.  We hope you enjoy the banter and snippets of songs.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is The Quest for Silver with Chris Tuffer on Lifestyles 55 Podcasts.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

I'm going to a town that has already been burnt down. I'm going to a place that has already been disgraced. I'm gonna see some folks who have already been let down. I'm so tired of America. I'm gonna make it up for all of the sunlit time. I'm gonna make it up for all of the nursery eyes. I never really seem to want to tell the truth. I'm so tired of you, America Making my own well I gotta lie to America I gotta lie to you really think you go to hell for having love Tell me luck for thinking everything that you've done is good I really need to know after stoking the body of Jesus Christ in blood I'm so tired of America I've really need to know I let just never see you again on might as well You took advantage of a world that loved you well I'm going to a town and it's already been my town I'm so tired of you a manual.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

The opening song on today's podcast was of course by Rufus Wainwright. And was his only single release to reach so high on the musical chart. Number sixteen, in fact. It was the first of his songs which I heard by Rufus on the radio. He was a Canadian and his music writers, Rock and Robin, the songs going back to the elder era. I hope I'm Christover. And this episode of Whatever Silver is dedicated to uh Rufus Wingrider, who is a singer, songwriter, and composer, has been around the world performing and sharing his universe and of life. All the way from Austin, Texas. It is my privilege to connect with you, Rufus Wainwright. First of all, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

I'm doing good. I uh I'm here to do uh a rather well-known show called Austin City Limit, uh, which is exciting because it's uh pretty much the only gig I'm doing uh of late, although I have another one in Germany as well. Uh but it's pretty they're few and far between, and so it's just nice to be working.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Now before we get too far into our uh QA chat, allow me, if you will, to uh play this selection from your album Unfollow the Rules.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

I feel like my brain tends to leave. Sometimes I read a fish for smooth back into the sea, hook sinker and be all the ruins free for the floor. Stop looking and seen and just see the cloud of the flames, just like looking easy and dreams was just but just being a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, um, well, I uh oh yeah, uh my husband and I, and and Lorca, uh the daughter our daughter Viva's mother, we we uh have a wonderful girl named Viva, and she's nine years old, and uh several uh years ago now, I guess about two years ago, two or three years, she she just walked in one day and said, you know, Daddy, sometimes I just want to unfollow the rules. And and then proceeded to march out of the room. And and I, instead of running after her and telling her that that wasn't such a great idea, I of course started writing down song lyrics uh and focusing on that instead. So so uh and that became a song and and then it became an album. So it's uh yeah, from the mouths of the babes.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So if I'm hearing you correctly, Rufus, your daughter spoke those words and then out came your lyrical pen to paper?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, yeah, I know. I think what was great what what was interesting about that period uh with Vivo uh was that she was in that amazing time when kids are so you know, they just hear words coming at them and they and they put the you know, they put these odd selections together that don't necessarily make sense off the bat, but but once you really, you know, think about it, uh it uh it it's it's completely sensical. So I think she'd heard like unfollow from like, you know, Facebook or something and then rules from, you know, the way life is, and then she just put them together. So so yeah, no, I I uh I I I wrote started writing the song then.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

So then give us a sense of how you came to decide to return to the same studio to record this album, which was uh the recording studio for your first album.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Um well I you know uh I I live I I now I'm in Austin, Texas, but but but we live in in Laurel Canyon in in Los Angeles, Hollywood now. And uh twenty years ago, uh I made my first album there, and that was really the city. Los Angeles was really the city that uh that propelled me further into my uh musical career and and uh and gave me the you know the the strength to continue financially and uh and and and so so so I returned there uh for several reasons. And and yes, this is definitely kind of a full circle uh back to where it began and it you know it makes sense I just celebrated the twentieth anniversary of my first album. And um and yeah, so it's I think you know life's is about circles, and then we've completed one now.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Okay, Rufus. Since we had the quest for silver explore the old music from back in the twentieth century, let's hear what I would describe as one of your first silver selections.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

I don't want to hold you and feel so helpful. I don't want to smell my s I understand, Rufus, that you became interested in opera as a teenager, correct?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yes, well, my um I you know I grew up in Montreal and uh my mother and aunt, uh Kate and Anna McGarigal, they loved they weren't such big opera fans per se, but they adored tenors. Uh and specifically they adored the Swedish tenor UC Bjerling um from the 40s and 50s. Anyways, but he and one day they brought home a recording of UC Bjerling singing Verde's Requiem uh with Leontine Price, a very famous recording. And and I was about 13 and I listened to that that whole two-hour-long piece, and by the end of it, I was completely hooked. It was it was an actual kind of religious experience with a mass, and and I just kept all I wanted to hear was opera. So that that stayed, and eventually uh I felt like I needed to give back to that form uh all the pleasure and and and also pain that it that it offered me, so uh so I decided to write a couple of them. I want to write three because I don't I don't actually feel that I could be a proper opera composer unless I've written three.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Okay. So what is the reaction from people about you producing opera?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

They're very impressed. Uh and and and it's kind of fascinating because, you know, when when my first opera was uh premiered, Pri Madonna, this is uh over ten years ago now. Um, but it uh, you know, it it it uh and and just to say they're doing a production of it this year in Sweden in Stockholm at the Royal Opera House. So it's it's the piece is done quite well. Anyways, but when the when it was first premiered, you know, the classical music uh critics were were pretty prickly with me. You know, I think they felt I was somewhat of a uh of a fraud or or uh or an imposter or something, and they were pretty harsh on me. Where and whereas the pop critics were I would even say overly uh enthusiastic for them, it just blew their mind that I would even attempt something so like that. So the gulf between both worlds is is pretty substantial.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

So the reviews are mixed, as they say. But is this variety changing?

SPEAKER_00 18:20

It seems so. I mean, as I said, they're doing Primadonna has had seven productions, you know, uh all over the world, so it's done well, and and uh there's a great recording of it actually on Deutsche Grammophone, and Hadrian, of course, was premiered at uh uh the the COC uh uh last year, I think, uh with you know an a a stellar cast and and those other productions in mind. So it's really about getting produced again. That that is the litmus, shall we say?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Since you have not uh steered clear, as we might say, of the political profile. I'll presume you don't mind having some thoughts or views regarding political positions.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Well, you know, it's funny because I I never thought that I would um have uh a sort of right-wing audience ever, you know, because I was always very uh liberal, shall we say, and you know, and also being gay and out, you know, I thought I kind of, you know, carved out other things. But um, but anyways, but but I I do actually have people get up and leave my show sometimes, you know, due to what I say, and and there is, you know, I I I I I do, you know, perform in the heartland of the United States and and I've really come up against that that whole situation. Um and I don't know, I mean it's I at this point in terms of how terrible everything is in in the United States, uh politically, I think it's just necessary for every citizen to do whatever they can in whatever capacity to uh really, you know, get rid of Trump. I mean it's and and and and and the Republican Party for that matter. It's it's I I think it's gone beyond a kind of like opinion thing. It's it's it's it's it's it's a state of emergency. And so it's so uh yeah, what w what seemed before like a like maybe just sort of like uh I don't know, just uh an aspect of of my career is now actually I think just uh a fundamental uh part of my humanity in terms of just surviving.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Other artists who have spoken out have suffered from political remarks. You don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Well, no, I mean I look, I was never I I I've done very well over the years, and I have a a substantial fan base and uh and so forth. I've never been propelled into the you know the stratosphere of of of American superstardom like the jerksy uh like the chicks were. Um but uh but that being said, you know, maybe it's maybe it's because I've always been very honest in general from the outset. I mean I I was always very vocal about how I felt about everything. Uh uh and that's something that I think that I actually inherited a lot from my parents and basically uh needed to um you know uh just express themselves and be uh honest uh in general. That was what you did in the 60s and 70s, so I'm part of that tradition.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Let me, if you will, share a descriptive accolade of you by Elton John. He said Rufus Wainwright is the greatest singer-songwriter on the planet. I surmise that he has had some significant influence on you.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Well, I mean uh he hadn't taken it back yet. So uh I I don't I d he hasn't called anybody else the greatest singer-songwriter on the planet, so I I perhaps I perhaps I still am. Um look, I I uh I I I'm very uh trapped as I say that that he that he said that. And you know, it's funny because at the time when he did, I didn't take it that serious seriously in the sense like I know him. I know him pretty well, and I just thought it was sort of a very a really lovely thing for him to say, and and he's very, you know, uh la lavish in general. So so it was just I thought it just kind of came out. But b lo and behold, you know, ten years later, fifteen years later, it still sticks. That was a real title that he bestowed upon me, and that I continue to um you know really uh uh get a lot of attention from. So so I'm very thankful to him and I feel very honored, probably more now than I did when he when he said it.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Unlike Elton and Bernie Taupin, who work separately, as in one does the music and the other does the lyrics, how do you, Rufus, operate the creation of a song?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Oh boy. I mean I I write all the time. I mean, I I I I did a thing during COVID uh where where we called the quarantunes where I would uh do sing a song every day from my our house in LA in in my bathrobe. Uh and uh anyways, but that was basically just a a glimpse into my daily routine, which is to get up and play piano in the morning. So I I I write all the time. Um I would say that you know melodies come incredibly easily, uh, and lyrics are very, very difficult. Um and it's sort of balancing that that kind of um dichotomy that that that uh I don't know that that that interests me. I mean I mean I I I I uh and I think actually with lyrics, and and this is brings me back to Unfollow the Rules. I'm very happy with the lyrics on Unfollow the Rules. I worked very hard on those and and uh and I act and I do actually feel that the lyric writing in general is is somewhat under threat if you listen to some of the stuff out there.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

So why is it that uh the tune comes easier than the struggle to find the words to accompany the tune?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Uh I haven't. I think I th I do I do feel it's just a natural uh uh function from having been brought up in a very musical family where there was just music all the time. And uh, you know, my mother s uh our mother Kate sang to us uh a lot and and and and sang uh also to herself, and uh it was just music was always just everywhere growing up.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Now we would be totally remiss if we did not share some of the influential music from your mother and sister. So here is Kate McGarigal and Martha hard at work with Talk to Me of Mendocino.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

I bid farewell to the state of all New York, my home away from home. In the state of New York, I came away when first I started in New York.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

I I I would. I mean, I I I of course hear a few devils here and there. Uh but on the whole it's it's angelic. And and there was, I mean, look, I mean when m especially the McGarigal sisters, when they burst on the scene uh many years ago, it was it was pretty I don't know, it was quite disarming the harmonies that they uh that they fashioned, and people were really stunned by by the beauty of their them singing together as a family, and so we so we c we've continued that tradition.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Since your mother died so young at the age of sixty-three you, I know, miss her terribly. I'm sure you heard praises of your work now and then. Well, how is it in these years hence?

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah, yeah, I know it, no, it it haunts me. And I have to say I was at about five years, I was I was convinced that that that that uh I was over it. You know, I I I really felt like I'd gone through all the various you know, stages of grief and I'd come out the other end and you know had to continue my life. And and it was okay for about five years, but then re just recently, about for the tenth anniversary, it kind of came back with a real wallop. And uh and and you know, and maybe it was the fact that, you know, so much has happened in the last uh ten years in terms of having a child and and and just the way the world is today. A lot of the wonderful things that I I've been able to be a part of. So so yeah, it it it uh I think I think as you get older it kind of goes away, but then it hits you way harder at certain moments. It's like it's uh somewhat relentless actually.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Now, we are clear that your relationship with your mother was good, but not so much with your father. If it's not unfair of me to ask how have you been getting along with your father?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

No, it's it's it it's fair game. I mean, my dad and I are doing really well right now, um, but we've certainly had our periods uh our rough patches. Um and I I would say, you know, in a lot of ways I think uh my my relationship to my father is quite common actually, uh uh in terms of boys and their dads, and just where at a certain point both parties have to just accept who the other one is and get what they can and you know use the time wisely that is left and and just not sort of expect so much um from from uh from each other and and therefore just and and just you know be at peace. So and so so we've gotten to that point now in our life and we love each other very, very much. Um and uh but we also realize that you know we're we're different people and and also different people than we imagine the other one to be. So it's it's a long process, but it's it's it's it's we we've we've made it in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Not that you can speak for him here and now, but would you say he has come to accept you who you are?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

You know, I I I think so. I mean we can still we still have the ability, it's just sort of built in to to really, you know, uh I don't know, uh to take each other down if if need be, you know. Um I think there's still a lot of things that will annoy him and and vice versa. But I don't know, it's sort of I don't know, we were able to identify it and and and and and and uh and and and talk through it and stuff. We're very I mean, my father is a he's a fascinating man and he's a brilliant artist, he's a great singer, uh and singing now better than he's ever sung. And he just he just doesn't wanna he he just he just we we both just want to be the star of the show. So it's one of those things a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

If we accept this as a given that both parents were musical but you of course did not live with both for many years. Did you ever doubt that you would evolve into the music the way you have?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Uh seventies Polaroids, uh faded Polaroids such a thing now. But uh that that that I can, you know, locate and and there's there's so many of me as a baby just reaching towards the piano, hanging by the piano, in my diaper at the piano. And uh so I was just so dr um drawn to that instrument and uh and was singing all the time. So I think it was it was it was uh pretty obvious, uh thankfully, that that was what I was going to do.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

And then I read this bit about stating that you were prohibited from listening to Joni Mitchell. What on earth is the backstory with this?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, no, I mean I I love Joni Mitchell's music, and I also love her as as a person. You know, she's actually a good friend of ours. Uh, but but when I was growing up uh in in Canada, in Montreal, my mother, who, you know, is a is a great uh uh singer-songwriter in her own right, um, really harbored a resentment towards Joni. As as do a lot of people. Um and I think for my mother it was it was twofold. It was it was on one hand it was um I think you know, my mother was a bit of a purist, uh a folk music purist, and felt like her her music was somewhat of a of a of a of a you know uh of a whatever pop thing. Uh it was kind of trashy. And uh, but then also I think the real the reality of it, I think was that my mother was also very jealous of of Johnny and of her success and her financial, you know, uh rewards and stuff. So uh so yeah, it was it was I think one was sort of a a good opinion and the other one was just human debrility.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

You are recorded some time ago as saying that creating music is a joy but also a disease. Can you give us a picture of what you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah. Well it's interesting. I mean, I I have uh a situation right now. I mean, this is get your tissues out. But you know, we had a wonderful puppy uh named Puccini, uh that that we had over the summer who was a miniature uh Australian shepherd. Anyways, and sadly he was he he died over the summer uh quite violently uh in a fight with another dog. Anyways, um so I started writing a song about it, thinking, you know, it would just be like a cute song about about a l a little puppy that's gone. And then of course now the song is turning into, you know, this reflection of the apocalypse. Um and it is this and it's incredibly emotional and it's incredibly hard, but I ha kind of have to go there and um yeah, it's uh it's tough, but it's I don't know, it's just my calling, I suppose. You know.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

So when you are between a rock and a hard place, as we say, looking for a way to complete a musical work, how do you find that sweet spot?

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Uh well, you uh well it's not I I don't have so much of a problem with not wanting to come out. It's like sometimes it it's coming out and I don't necessarily want it to come out because it's too emotional. Um so it's uh I just sort of ride the wave.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Unlike you, Rufus, uh fluent bilinguist, I'm not able to carry a conversation en franc in a paper bag. Are you thinking of continuing the family tradition of recording in French?

SPEAKER_00 35:03

We we might you know, my mother and aunt, Caitlin McGows, made some of the best French records uh of the 70s um and eighties, and uh so so I would like to continue that tri tradition and and make a French record big time.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Well, at this point, Rufus, I have to say thank you very much for spending this hour with us on the quest for silver.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Thank you so much. And it's great to be on the show, so it's great for me too.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Okay. I'm Christopher.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Someday I wish upon star, and wake up where the clouds are far behind which troubles melt like lemon the tree.