The Reality of Choice
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The Reality of Choice
Should Abortion Be Enshrined in a State's Constitution? Lauren and Sheila's Stories
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Abortion is legal and protected currently in 25 states, 15 of which have had it written into the state constitution. Virginia is the next one to vote to amend its constitution making abortion a fundamental right. Abortion is already legal in Virginia up to 26 weeks. Why is this amendment needed? How it the language of the amendment different than what is on the ballot? What impacts does this mean for women, parents, and healthcare providers? Are we safe? Listen now as more states could follow suit.
So welcome back, Louise.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's good to see you, Thelma. It's been a while since we've gotten together.
SPEAKER_01You're darn right. You know, life and work has been really busy this spring, which is a good thing, but unfortunately has caused a little slight delay for us in getting another episode together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's good to be back at it. And we decided to take a slight turn with this episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, we normally don't want to get too involved in the political agendas, but this issue is something we feel that needs to be brought to attention.
SPEAKER_00And it potentially can affect us in the pregnancy resource world as well. We encourage you to really listen to this and to share it. Because even though this particular issue is currently focused in Virginia, the state of Virginia, it has implications for the whole country, for a lot of other states as well. So here we go.
SPEAKER_01What does it mean to have a law written into a state's constitution? And how is that different from the current statutes that exist in such states? Abortion is legal and protected currently in 25 states, 15 of which have had it written into the state constitution to one extent or another. And Virginia is the next one on the uh the agenda, blah, and the most extreme to date. On November 3rd, 2026, the people of Virginia will be voting on a proposed amendment to the Virginia Constitution that will enshrine the right to an abortion.
SPEAKER_00Yes. If passed, it would supersede current law and make abortion a fundamental right with virtually no restrictions. What does the amendment attempt to instill and what does the ballot say to get people to vote yes? Do not be swayed. This amendment is dangerously vague and creates risky loopholes for unregulated abortions at any time, even up until birth, by unlicensed abortion providers, and that threatens the health of mothers and babies. We will explain it all and the impacts it imposes for those affected. Listen up for those states that may follow. These are the stories of Lauren and Sheila.
SPEAKER_01I am Thelma. And I'm Louise. Our journey began several years ago in a medical pregnancy resource center for women facing unplanned pregnancies who need direction, support, and answers. We created this podcast to shed light through the real life stories we experienced and others experienced on the people and issues that are caught up in the debate about life and abortion. We have all heard the political side of the matter, but no one really wants to talk about the reality and effect on women. We are not lawmakers, activists, or lobbyists. We are just two women trying to share the truth.
SPEAKER_00The information we're going to be sharing with you is true and factual. However, the names of the women in our stories are changed to protect their identities.
SPEAKER_01We will be sharing such stories as these over the next few episodes. They are testimony from women who have undergone second and third trimester late-term abortions as is legal in 25 states and DC.
SPEAKER_00First, in New Mexico. Lauren was 17 weeks pregnant, and she stated, I was told that I was 17 weeks pregnant and that it was only legal to abort up to 16 weeks, but they would go ahead and perform it anyway, since I'd paid in cash, and since I'd driven so far, 90 miles from New Mexico. I was told that the doctor would do a short procedure to open the cervix and simply remove the quote mass, and then I could go home. Afterward, the nurse casually remarked that it was a girl about the size of a grapefruit. Understanding that I had just murdered my daughter, I was devastated. Severe chronic depression, self-hatred, suicidal thoughts, inability to hold a job, failed first marriage to the boyfriend who pushed me to abort, severe dysmenorrhea to the point of having to have my uterus removed when I was only thirty-five. The grief, remorse, and regret have been unbearable. I had a promising life ahead of me, intelligent, straight A student, plans and dreams to be a productive member of society. Instead, I drank myself out of college after the abortion and have never been able to fulfill my potential. I wonder what my daughter would be like if I'd allowed her to live and fulfill her potential. I miss her. It's been twenty nine years, and I still grieve my actions and the loss of my child. I murdered my daughter.
SPEAKER_01And then in Michigan we have Sheila, and she was 24 weeks pregnant. And as she stated, I was talked to privately by a woman who looked like she was in charge. I was taken into her office and she told me how they normally don't do abortions this late in the pregnancy because it is illegal. But because I kept calling and asking questions, they would do me a favor. I had to never speak of it though. And after the ultrasound, I was taken to a room and laid on a table. I did not look around. I was just going through the motions. I did not see what they were doing. I just looked up, and when the preach when the procedure started, I started to scream. I felt horrible, and immediately I felt the ripping and tearing of my child. I wanted to die, and even now I can feel the ripping and tearing. They never told me what was going to happen and never explained if they were going to do this or that. It was come in here, talk to me, look at this, sit by yourself and think, give us the credit card number, lay here and good luck and goodbye.
SPEAKER_00And you know, we hear stories like that in our pregnancy center frequently. Women who are coming into us and have had abortion in their past and late-term abortion in their past. And it their stories are just like this, are just like Sheila and just as awful. So, should it be law that these stories are a fundamental right?
SPEAKER_01And and why do we need to enshrine it even more by defining it into a state constitution?
SPEAKER_00Right. Virginia's current laws already protect health care for miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, and serious complications. This amendment adds nothing to women's rights that actually protect their health.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, in fact, it puts women's safety more at risk. So, what is the difference between current state law statutes versus state constitution?
SPEAKER_00A state statute. These are the laws enacted by the state legislature. They address specific issues and can be amended or repealed by the legislature. And currently, abortion is legal in Virginia. The state constitution, though, those are fundamental legal documents of a state that outline the structure of government, the rights of citizens and the principles of governance. They are much more difficult to amend than statutes, often requiring a referendum.
SPEAKER_01So having a law written into a state constitution means that the law is formally incorporated into the foundational legal document of the state. This process grants the law a higher level of authority and permanence compared to regular statutes, as it can only be amended or repealed through a more rigorous process, often requiring a public vote or supermajority in the legislature. That word is so hard to say. State constitutions can grant rights that are more expansive than those in the federal constitution, leading to variations in legal protections across states.
SPEAKER_00So let's do a deep dive into this amendment first by looking at what is current Virginia law. Per the Code of Virginia, section 18.2, it is legal for a licensed medical provider to perform abortions without restrictions up to the end of the second trimester, roughly 26 weeks, six days, as determined by the start of a woman's first day of her last menstrual period.
SPEAKER_01And uh third trimester abortions are also permitted if, in the opinion of a physician, based upon their best clinical judgment, the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or substantially or irremediably impair the mental or physical health of the woman.
SPEAKER_00And the inclusion of mental health gives medical providers really broad latitude on performing an abortion in the third trimester. If they do so, the however, right now, the code requires that life support be available in the event that the baby, or as the law calls it, the quote product of the abortion is born alive. So there has to be facilities there in case the baby is actually born alive, even despite the attempt at abortion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And this law was amended in 2020 to remove safeguards for the women, such as, you know, such as what we've already covered in other episodes, such as requiring an ultrasound and mandatory waiting periods. But it does still require parental notification if the patient is under the age of 18.
SPEAKER_00In our opinion, unfortunately, but abortion is very much available in Virginia currently, and that's not going to change. And with the demographics in the state, there's no evidence, as I said, that'll change in the future. So why do we need to have an amendment to the Constitution making abortion a fundamental right?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question, Louise. So what does the actual language of the amendment say? While it's a little bit technical, uh we think it's worth to hear the wording of the amendment as it's written and then compare it to the ballot language that the voter will see. This amendment, as we mentioned, is considered the most aggressive in the country in terms of abortion excess.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's really important to see the difference between the amendment language and the ballot language, because honestly, it's maddening. The differences are very stark. So here we go. And we're gonna read the actual amendment. It's not that long, but you know, we're gonna break it up and talk about each piece of it as we go. So this amendment, Section 11A, a fundamental right to reproductive freedom. As it's called right now, yeah. Right, that's what it's being called right now. That every, I'm reading directly from the amendment, that every individual has the fundamental right to reproductive freedom, including the ability to make and carry out decisions relating to one's own prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, abortion care, miscarriage management, and fertility care.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, the first thing that jumps out here is that there's no mention of any medical involvement. Anyone can do anything they want. It is extremely vague to the point, on one hand, it makes you wonder why it is needed. And on the other hand, do we really want to enshrine in the Constitution uh the ability to do whatever the heck I want with my pregnancy? Miscarriage, prenatal care, childbirth, or postpartum care? You know, I have a question. Does this mean that a woman can supersede the advice of a medical provider if she even has one, because it is her fundamental right? You know, is that really a good idea for her health and safety?
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's just incredibly, incredibly vague. Going on, reading on, an individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be directly or indirectly denied, burdened, or infringed upon unless justified by a compelling state interest achieved by the least restrictive means.
SPEAKER_01Well, when you read that, Louise, I just think that's clear as mud. So to try and uh pick it apart, no one can infringe upon an individual's right to an abortion. So directly or indirectly. What does indirectly mean? I I don't know. So just trying to clarify here. Does this include OB doctors who do not currently provide abortions or parents or pregnancy resource centers? And what the heck is compelling state interest and least restrictive means?
SPEAKER_00So, as I understand it, under the specific text of this amendment, a state's interest is deemed compelling only under a very narrow circumstance. It's strictly for maintaining or improving the health of the individual who's seeking care. And it has to be consistent with accepted clinical standards of care and evidence-based medicine. And it can't infringe on the pregnant individual's autonomous decision making. So the pregnant individual has has, you know, the bottom line, has the last say. Do whatever she wants. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So this means by establishing that reproductive freedom is a fundamental right subject to this strict standard, the compelling state interest threshold makes it highly difficult for the state government to pass blanket bans or burdensome restrictions on abortion care. So, for instance, while the amendment generally allows the state to regulate or restrict abortion in the third trimester, it specifies that even during the final stage of pregnancy, the state can never prohibit an abortion if it is medically indicated to protect the pregnant individual's life, her physical health, or mental health, or if the fetus is not viable. And this is a very large window of opportunity, so third trimester abortions will be allowed.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that it really puts the state at a disadvantage for imposing any kind of restrictions, any kind of you know requirements on that individual. So continuing on with the language of the amendment. Notwithstanding the above, the Commonwealth may regulate the provision of abortion care in the third trimester, as uh Thelmall just said, provided that in no circumstance shall the Commonwealth prohibit an abortion if one, in the professional judgment of a physician, is medically indicated to protect the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant individual. And two, when in the professional judgment of the physician the fetus is not viable, the commonwealth shall not discriminate in the protection or enforcement of this fundamental right.
SPEAKER_01So again, this is very vague language, as the protection of mental health is very broad in scope. And under this verbiage, like I said, third trimester abortions will be readily performed. And note also, this is the only part of this amendment that references physicians, or for that matter, any licensed medical provider. And this fact will be important when we get to the language that is on the ballot a little later. And I want you to listen very carefully to this next part of the amendment.
SPEAKER_00The Commonwealth shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on such individual's own exercise of this fundamental right, or such individual's own actual potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes, including miscarriage, stillbirth, abortion? The Commonwealth shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against any individual for aiding or assisting another individual in exercising such other individuals' right to reproductive freedom with such other individuals' voluntary consent.
SPEAKER_01Did you hear that? Did you hear any mention of a doctor, nurse, or other medical professional in that statement? Or did you hear any need for a license to operate given by the State Department of Health or other licensing body? No. This language allows anyone, anywhere, to aid or assist with the abortion, which is her individual right with no adverse action.
SPEAKER_00This is maddening. Women are going to be hurt by this, and it it'll be a constitutional right for someone to do so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so picture a reproductive freedom store on the corner of your town next to the coffee shop and dry cleaners. Or picture traffickers bringing women across state lines for an abortion in a state that they know won't prosecute them.
SPEAKER_00There is no protection of the women in this language, and it's going to be an incentive for more abuse. More abuse.
SPEAKER_01And current law states that no one can force a woman to have an abortion, including secretly slipping a woman abortion pills, you know, a type of abuse we have already covered in a different episode. And this amendment will make it harder to prosecute this type of abuse and coercion.
SPEAKER_00I just read another case of a guy doing that to his to his pregnant wife, just putting putting the pills in her coffee.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure it's more common than we even know.
SPEAKER_00And finally, it says in the amendment, the section shall be self-executing. Any provision of this section held invalid shall be severable from the remaining portions of the section.
SPEAKER_01Why do they have to make this stuff so wordy? But this means that should one part of the amendment be found to be invalid, the rest of the amendment stands.
SPEAKER_00So that's what the amendment actually says. But what does the ballot that the voters will see and the voters will be saying yes or no to? What does that say?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the Virginia legislature has framed the ballot language as a general question about women's health care and medical decision making. However, it is blatantly misleading and does not accurately represent what would happen if the amendment is enacted. The underlying amendment centers on abortion up to birth without health and safety protections for the women of Virginia.
SPEAKER_00So the ballot shall contain the following questions. So I'm reading from what voters will see on the ballot. Should the Constitution of Virginia be amended to one, protect the freedom to make personal decisions about prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, birth control, abortion, miscarriage management, and fertility care? Two, protect doctors, nurses, and patients from being punished for these decisions. And three, allow for restrictions on access to abortion during the third trimester of pregnancy, except when the patient's health is at risk or the pregnancy cannot survive.
SPEAKER_01Yep. So let's break down this question in comparison to what the amendment actually says.
SPEAKER_00The first section states: protect the freedom to make personal decisions about prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, birth control, abortion, miscarriage management, and fertility care.
SPEAKER_01So how is this different from what already exists and why is this clause necessary? And in all honesty, I hope you agree with me that this is extremely vague. Because if you listened carefully, you would have noticed that the fundamental freedom does not specifically state the woman. The amendment states any individual, but the ballot excludes that to instill the assumption that it is only the woman.
SPEAKER_00The second section states its intention that the intention is to protect doctors, nurses, and patients from being punished for these decisions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and here is another blatant misleading clause creating loopholes for vast abuse of a woman's reproductive rights. The amendment does not state doctors, nurses, or patients. It again states that any individual Listen again.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't say doctors, lawyers, or excuse me, doctors, nurses, or patients. It says any individual for aiding or assisting another individual in exercising such other individuals' right to reproductive freedom.
SPEAKER_01So the door for anyone to be involved in aiding in an abortion is thrown wide open far beyond that of a medical facility. Anyone is open to assisting or aiding with an abortion if the woman gives her consent for it. But how do you prove that she did or did not give consent? Yeah, he said she said kind of stuff. And what does aid and assist mean in this case? It could be framed that requiring her to go to a licensed provider or undermine her fundamental right to an abortion.
SPEAKER_00That's so true. The third section states that the amendment will allow for restrictions on access to abortion during the third trimester of pregnancy, except when the patient's health is at risk or the pregnancy cannot survive. Again, extremely vague.
SPEAKER_01And when you hear this, do you assume it is for the physical health of the mother? The amendment states life or physical or mental health of the woman. This again creates another loophole for the legality of late-term abortion because she can simply say that she is stressed. It also states, quote, or if the pregnancy cannot survive, while the amendment states the pregnancy is no longer viable. That's a big difference.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's one thing to assist in a miscarriage procedure if the baby has already passed the difference between that and performing an abortion while the baby is still alive. It's not rocket science to determine that if you take a living baby out of the uterus too early, it will not survive. And this clause is like stating, well, better to get rid of the baby now than wait for it to die on its own.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so do the research. Plenty of children have survived against the odds of a doctor's recommendation. And we have already covered the significant emotional difference of loss of a child from natural causes versus that of a personal decision to create that loss. So, what will this mean in reality for women and babies? So, since this is an amendment to the state's constitution, the outline verbiage will supersede and override the state law. Statues. In simple terms, this amendment opens the door to the following.
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's see. Things like how about partial birth abortions? Will they be allowed? Remember that there are no restrictions on so-called fundamental reproductive rights.
SPEAKER_01And what about the removal of born alive? Meaning that there's no requirement to use measures to keep a baby alive if it survives the abortion procedure.
SPEAKER_00So I'm going to go back and say that current law, current Virginia law, actually has prohibits partial birth abortion and requires that if the baby is born alive, it being taken care of. But with this amendment, someone could argue that that would be taking away the fundamental right to the abortion. The amendment would supersede the current law. Another thing that would be uh superseded is informed consent. What about um this one's a big one? Parental consent will be removed. Right, because that would be that would be imposing on the girl's fundamental right. The requirement to be under licensed doctor's medical care would be removed if it would impede her fundamental right.
SPEAKER_01And second trimester abortions requirement to be performed in a medical facility? Gone, will be removed.
SPEAKER_00Taxpayer funding for all abortion procedures would be alive, excuse me, would be allowed because the inability for a woman to pay would infringe on her rights. Oh, how about abortion provider accountability will be significantly weakened? And the conscience clause that's currently in effect, that's also part of the current Virginia law, meaning that a doctor could refuse to perform an abortion for moral, ethical, personal, or religious reasons, would likely be challenged.
SPEAKER_01And Christian medical facilities like pregnancy resource centers will also have new challenges in having to refer women for abortion. And the sex selection abortion, that would be allowed, because that's her right.
SPEAKER_00Does voting no to this amendment mean banning abortion? And this applies to all states that will have instilled or considering this type of amendment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so voting no is not changing what currently exists in Virginia. Voting no keeps Virginia's current framework in place. It is not a ban on abortion or restriction by any means. But most people hopefully agree that there should be safeguards for women and common sense restrictions on access to them, like parental consent.
SPEAKER_00Right. Voting no is not about banning or removing access to abortion, but protecting some necessary securities that prioritize a woman's right to actual health care that is not that is, excuse me, that's designed to keep her safe.
SPEAKER_01So why is this amendment a problem for women's health?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I think we've kind of laid it out. Yeah. It creates a broad new constitutional right and it makes it harder for Virginians to insist on, you know, additional patient protections when needed. It can weaken uh the oversight of facilities, it'll complicate efforts to address misconduct, abuse, and it's going to limit future safety improvements.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, opening the borders to unlimited abortion access for any individual is a catastrophic idea for the woman. This is removing all safeguards that are designed to keep her health and safety protected in the decision that she is still free to make. Right. And what about parents? What about parental consent for minors? So current Virginia law requires parental or guardian consent or judicial bypass before a minor can attain an abortion. And the sweeping language in this amendment gives activists a powerful argument to challenge those protections in court and reduce parents' role at a critical moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The current law states that no one can force someone to have an abortion, and a woman under 18 must have parental consent. A child can't even take a Tylenol in school or, you know, go to the dentist without parental consent. But it's okay to undergo an extremely life-changing procedure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that doesn't seem right. So another question isn't this just preserving existing rights after Roe?
SPEAKER_00That's what a lot of the pro-abortion community want you to think. But no, the amendment goes way beyond maintaining current Virginia law by embedding new expansive language in the Constitution. And it limits how and when the state may respond in the future. There's a permanent change in who holds the leverage when questions of safety, data, and oversight are going to arise.
SPEAKER_01So let's get down to it. What does real reproductive freedom mean? And that means the right to strong safeguards and accountability, not a system where oversight is harder to enforce. And the right of parents to be informed and involved when their minor daughter faces a life-changing decision. And the ability to add new protections when we learn more about risks, disparities, or bad actors.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, and to be able to prosecute bad actors. This is going to make it a lot harder to do that. This amendment and other stated constitutional amendments currently or potentially proposed in the future mean a few things for women.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. First one, no safeguards for women. The amendment creates a sweeping fundamental right to reproductive decisions than restricts when the state may step in, even to protect patient health and safety. That means, you know, fewer options to enforce basic protections, uh, like I said, investigate bad actors or respond when women are harmed. You know, it even goes all the way down to inspecting clinics for basic safety standards. It protects sex traffickers, pimps, or other abusers from prosecution of forced abortion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And parents are cut out. The amendment is written so broadly that it invites legal challenges to long-standing Virginia laws that keep parents involved when a minor is considering an abortion. Parents shouldn't be pushed to the sidelines in serious medical decisions about their own child.
SPEAKER_01And guess what? It'd be locked in the Constitution. Once this language is placed in the Constitution, it overrides ordinary law and makes it much harder for Virginians to strengthen patient protections in the future. If something isn't working for women and families, it becomes far more difficult to fix.
SPEAKER_00Like we said, as of right now, about 15 states have fallen to this type of amendment. Virginia is next and would be among the most aggressive and harmful for women.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and because if you are in Virginia or any other state considering this change, please be informed. Please read the fine print of the proposed amendment and ask yourself, is this really in the best interest of the woman and child or just an attempt to aggravate a political agenda? That is the difference between voting no and yes.
SPEAKER_00Please help spread the word that Virginia and other states do not need this extreme amendment. Even if you agree that abortion should be available, this amendment goes too far and endangers women. We hope you recognize that this amendment is unneeded and pushes the boundaries be beyond what most Virginians would agree is acceptable. And if you want more information, our sources are listed on our website. Please use them to do your research and spread the word to vote no.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's all we have for this episode. Please keep listening as we have a lot more information to cover and share. If you or someone you know is dealing with an unplanned pregnancy or any aspect of a pre-or post-pregnanty decision, we want to hear your story. Please contact us through our website at www.the realityofchoice.com or text us at 660-454-0734.
SPEAKER_00That number is again 660-454-0734. Please share our podcast with others. Please like and follow us and subscribe to our newsletter on our website to get news and updates. If you think this information is important, please leave us a five star review to help others find us as well.