For Women who Write
A podcast for women who write or want to write.
For Women who Write
23: What Happens When You Finally Write the Book Everyone Keeps Telling You to Write
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If people keep telling you to write a book, this episode is for you.
I’m joined by my client Lyndi Zavy, author of Cheerleading from Quicksand, to talk about what it actually looked like to take her message from scattered ideas into a finished book while she was still living it.
We talk about burnout (or what she calls “quicksand”), writing in the middle of the process, and how her ideas went from dozens of documents into one clear, structured manuscript.
You’ll also hear the simple framework she now uses to help others move forward and why structure matters more than most writers think.
In this episode, we talk about:
• The moment she realized “burnout” didn’t fully capture what she was experiencing and why she started calling it “quicksand” instead
• What it looks like to write a book in the middle of your own process, not after it’s neatly resolved
• How her ideas lived across dozens of documents before becoming one clear manuscript
• Why having support (a coach, an editor, real accountability) made the difference between “almost written” and finished
• And the simple framework she built—the 3 D’s and ABC’s—that now helps others find their way back to solid ground
If your book idea has been sitting in Google Docs, half-started and unfinished, this will meet you right there.
Connect with Lyndi:
• Rivers & Roads
• Book: Cheerleading from Quicksand (available now)
Welcome to For Women Who Write Podcast. I'm Mikayla, a certified writing coach, editor, and self-publishing expert with over a decade of experience, helping women turn their ideas into powerful, best-side books. If you felt the call to write, share your story, share your experiences, how you can help other people, then you are in the right place. Here we talk about the real process of writing and publishing, from finding your voice to structuring a book, to overcoming resistance in the cluster system and launching it into the world with a edit. I'm excited to show you that becoming a published and best-selling author, if it's possible, it's absolutely difficult. Your story matters, and chances are you're closer to holding a finished book in your hand. All right, you guys, I am so excited for today. We have a really, really fun guest, truly. I edited her manuscript and I kept laughing and was so encouraged the whole time. Lindy Zavy, I said it right. Lindy Zavey. I've been saying her last name wrong apparently, but Lindy Zavy has joined us today. She wrote an incredible book and we're going to be talking all about it today on the podcast. And it's going to be really, really fun. So, Lindy, thank you so, so much for being here. Well, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here and to talk about it. Yeah, wonderful. Okay, so tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do. And we're going to talk a lot more about your book today and how it all overlaps. But tell us more about who you are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I identify as a recovering HR professional. I worked in HR for about a decade and a half, really higher education and healthcare for the most part. And towards the end of my career in HR, I was moved to a chief operating officer role, which was terrifying in its own right, and uh really led right into the start of the COVID pandemic. So working in healthcare, newly minted CEO, kind of traveled by fire, learned a lot really quickly. And I share a lot about this in the book, but truly that kind of early 2020s time became pivotal into where I am now, which is a burnout survivor and a purposeful entrepreneur. So sort of accidental uh COO, purposeful entrepreneur. I started Rivers and Roads Organizational Development in 2022. And I help organizations and individuals with their clarity, their culture, and their community building. So I work with a lot of solopreneurs, I work with a lot of nonprofits and just organizations that really want to make sure that they get their teams moving in the right direction and that that direction is not burnout.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh my gosh. So needed, especially, I mean, it's there's just so much that we can do right now. And there's so like technology has given us so many opportunities and there's so many awesome things we can do. And yet, like we go run, run, run, and we're doing great things, we're doing exciting things, but then like we get burnt out and we hate it all, you know, by the end, and we just want to sit on our, you know, on the couch watching Netflix and ignoring our world, you know. And of course there's a season for that. But I loved your book and loved that message about burnout because I think it's such a need because you don't say in the book like just don't do anything, and you also, you know, like give really helpful practical steps on how to, you know, handle burnout well and keep going throughout, you know, what you want to do and your really important things in life and still enjoy life at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Thank you. And, you know, really I found the definition of burnout and it, you know, really tracked with what I was feeling, you know, depersonalization, emotional exhaustion, decreased sense of accomplishment, you know, check, check, check. And then I got to the last sentence where it said, but it's only a workforce, uh, a workplace phenomena. And I was like, wait, wait, what? Because I was feeling really burned out in every arena of my life. Work, life, parenting, my friendships, all of it. And I just, I didn't buy it. And so everything that I was finding didn't really answer the questions that I had of yes, but how do I move forward? How do I sort of rebuild this life that I intentionally created and unintentionally burned out? And so, you know, and and one of the things was I started to ask myself, you know, that doubt started to creep in for me of, you know, am I alone here? Am I the only one who feels this way? Am I the only one that has found my way out this way? And it was really encouraging when I started asking questions of, you know, friends and clients and just colleagues and and people in my universe that, hey, how did this, how did burnout feel for you? How did you find your way into it? How did you find your way out of it? And I found a lot of really common themes. And so that was that was definitely a very encouraging eye-opening moment when I unfortunately found that so many people that I know well had felt the same way that I had.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Okay, so you had this really, you know, big experience running a healthcare organization during 2020. A little wild. I know in the book, too, you talk about a lot of personal upheaval that goes, you know, that happened in your life around that time as well. And so there's just a lot, you know, of burnout that happens. You have this experience. And then you, you know, get out of it and you start finding your footing and your rhythm. What is it now, kind of that you're on the other side of things? When did you decide, like, okay, I am ready to write a book?
SPEAKER_02Interestingly, I decided to write a book while I was still deep in what I call the quicksand. So roll back a little bit since I didn't I didn't mention this. I don't call it, I don't call it burnout, I call it quicksand. Since the World Health Organization tells us that it's just for the workplace, I was like, I I need to, I need to come up with a name that works for me. So I firmly wrote the book while in quicksand. And I'm not sure that I totally recommend that, but it was also really helpful for me to sort of work my way through it as I was sharing my story. And so, you know, I was I was on stages, I was doing keynotes and and breakouts and conference sessions about, you know, at the time I was still just fully calling it burnout. And I would, I would sort of get off stage and people would say, How can I continue the conversation? How can I keep? I have so much more that I want to learn that I want to know. And people started asking, Do you have a book? Do you have a book? And I had this great community of HR professionals with my local HR group, and several of them were either writing a book at the time or had written a book. My friend Bruce was like, Listen, I've written two books. You have a book in you. When is your book gonna come out? I love that. And so I just kept, you know, I kept hearing those voices. And I think I opened a document and called it book with three exclamation points. And I'd open it, I'd close it. And and so, you know, it is a it is a years-long labor of love. Yeah, that I just I kept, I think I kept trying to silence all those voices. And finally, when I leaned in and, you know, believed in myself, it it sort of poured out, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. Well, I think a lot of people start a book even in the middle of it, because it's like so therapeutic and cathartic to write it out. And even if it just starts in a journal with like, I just need to write everything out that I'm learning, that I'm processing, like, because you're when you're in those disorientation seasons, you're relearning a lot of different things about your life and about how the world works. And it's really great, like fodder for a book. And you may not be able to do it while you're in the thick of it because you're still processing it, but that's often where books start, is in the thick of it. And then they kind of mold in shape as you're recovering and you can start putting some language to it. Like you said, like you had burnout was a word, but that just wasn't resonating with you. And so the name of your book is Cheerleading from Quicksand, which love it so much. Um because it's really like the quicksand is where you just feel it's such a good, strong visual because you just feel like I can't get out of it. And there's no way I'm gonna get out. Like I'm forever stuck in all of that. So tell us a little bit more, though, about that metaphor of quicksand. I know it came up for you in the middle of a lot of that when you were talking to somebody about what we were feeling, but tell us more about how you came up with that metaphor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was it was really spur of the moment. I think somebody stopped me in the hallway and in the pharmacy that where I was working and said, you know, hey, how's it going? And I always, my answer was always live in the dream. I'm living the dream because for so long I was. I I was I was working in an organization that I loved and with teams that I loved. And I I firmly believed in the mission of I was taking care of the people who took care of the patients. And then somewhere in the middle of the pandemic and moving houses and just navigating everything, somebody said, How's it going? I said, you know, I think I feel like I'm cheerleading from quicksand. And it was just this idea that my job at work and at home and in my life was to lift up others. And that's always a role that I've taken so seriously and that I've I've loved being in that role. But it felt like I was lifting up others when my own foundation wasn't solid. And I'm here to tell you it's not possible because when your foundation isn't solid and the people that you're lifting up, they also have their own stuff. Yeah, they have their own grief and anxieties and frustrations and fears and all of those things. So they're sort of unwieldy and you're unwieldy, and it's not possible. And so, you know, I just I very quickly realized that if I was ever going to get to a place where I could lift up others, where if I was ever gonna get back to the place where I could do my job well, that I was going to need to really focus on studying my own foundation because I can't do it for anybody else, and no one else could do it for me. I had to do it for myself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And that's so much of just the process of writing a book is like there's a problem here, right here. I'm gonna fix it, get people on my team, help me fix this. Now I've got a solution and I want to share that solution with other people. Like that is the basis of a good book. And of course, we need like nice language and all these other things, but like that, the heart of it is that transformation that you're going to walk people through from point A to point B. So you decide, like, I'm gonna write the book and then now I'm gonna publish the book, which are kind of two different things. Like a lot of people have a book just sitting inside of their Google Docs and it doesn't actually go anywhere. But now you decide like you're going to actually publish this thing. So why do you you and I got connected through a mutual like acquaintance? But why did you want to hire a coach or an editor to really help you through like that, the rest of the process?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think, you know, know yourself to lead yourself, right? Like know your strengths and your limitations to better, you know, do whatever it is that you aspire to do. That's that's something that I firmly believe in. And so one thing I know about myself, I I am an obliger. I make my habits by, you know, having other people counting on me. And so, yeah, like so like I'm not a gym girly because if I have a gym membership and I can just go whenever that whenever is never. So I need like a class, I need somebody holding or a workout partner, a trainer. And so the same is true of the book, where I just knew that I needed someone to say, where are we? What's happening? And so it started with shout out to my friend Sally. Sally was the only person that I really knew who, you know, was here in town that was sort of working on a book. And I just I reached out to her and I was like, hey, how do I do this? And so we started working together, and so she was really like helping hold me to deadlines and she would come to my keynotes and like take notes and be like, this really resonated, or you know, could you lean more into this? And so we started kind of as almost like a ghostwriter, and then I quickly learned like I want to say these things in my own quirky language and voice. So then she kind of pivoted to being my coach. And then when it came time to have an editor and someone just I know lots of people go the self-publishing route just fully on their own. Again, those people probably aren't obligers, they're probably like upholders. Um, that's all Gretchen Rubin's framework, by the way, which is really helpful. But so for me, I was like, all right, so if we're gonna get this thing from the 42 Google Docs in my drive to a book, I'm gonna need an editor. And so my friend Bridget found you and and I'm so grateful that she did. And so I just knew that I needed a little bit of help to do these things that I'd never done before. So I'm just I'm so grateful for you. Um, even right before we jumped on the call, holding my hand through this whole process, because we we are not meant to do any of this life alone. And so I think having someone support you and and cheerlead you through the process, I think it's really helpful and really important.
SPEAKER_00So true, so true. And if we're gonna do anything awesome and great and impactful and lasting, we can't do it alone. We have to have the Sally's and the Bridgets, you know, the Michaela's the Michaela's to help us, you know, make those things happen and build the belief in us that we can do them and give us the path forward to make it happen. So we when you and I first met, you had a term, a loving term for your book that I thought was so funny that you called it the Franken book. Because I know that was one of your fears was that it was 47 Google Docs just kind of all pulled together. So one of the things that you and I did was we worked on the structure to make sure that it all flowed really well together. And you actually came to me with a manuscript already written, and now I'm just doing people beforehand. But it was really fun to work with you coming with, you know, a manuscript fully done because you had done so much work on the beginning that it really wasn't as much of a Franken book as you thought, but probably because the process felt disjointed a little bit. But it was it was really well done. And I think a lot of that is because you are a speaker, because you've done a lot of speaking and there's so much overlap between speaking and writing. I mean, it's both communications, just different mediums. And so there was, it was really, really well done. But tell us a little bit more about like the process itself of like writing and editing, having the book being edited, like the highs and the lows of it. What was what was that whole process like for you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and you truly did not see it when it was a Franklin book. I tried to, I tried to like clean up the house before company came over. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes that's what you need an editor for, you know, is like, you know, someone's about to read this. I guess I gotta clean it up.
SPEAKER_02Someone see you gotta, you gotta, you like, you know, you can't shove it all in the closet anymore. Uh-huh. So, and and I think part of it, you know, you mentioned the speaking. As I was writing this, I was still being asked to speak about it on on stages and and all over the country. And and so I think I think last year I did 30 different speaking engagements. Wow. And so during those, I was actually also owning the book and and the story. And so as I was sort of, and I'm an external processor, so no surprise there. So I'd be talking about it and I'd realize, like, oh, that's a framework. Yes. Like, or or I'd, you know, I'd talk about something like let's say boundaries, and and boundaries are such an abstract concept until you have some framework around it. And so some of these things sort of happened live on stage. Um, so thank you to everybody who was uh in in an audience over the last year who I was turns out I was like working out my material. It's awesome. And so it it evolved through that, but it also evolved through, you know, Sally and I going back and forth, or you know, a lot of the book was written. I would, I would check into a hotel, like let's say I think one one weekend I was in Tulsa, I did a speaking engagement like on a Thursday night and a Saturday morning. So in between, I just I just wrote. I mean, I one one time I wrote like 18 hours in a row. That's awesome. Kudos to those who are, like I kind of wish that I could have been, but I was just like a dig in deep.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02And so I think part of that was the nature of the multiple documents because I'd be like, okay, I'm working out this thing, but it is not, it is not book ready. It is, it is in work in progress. And so again, you know, sort of engaging you was like, okay, I I can't other than you know, the person who's been with this book from from jump, you know, the two people, Sally and myself, I've really got to have this in a document. And so that really helped me with the flow. I think even up until we were making the last couple of edits, we were kind of changing like what's part one, what's part two, what's part three. And again, your guidance with that was so incredibly helpful because I had spent so much time with it in these different spaces.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That your sort of you know, new eyes going, okay, wait, this is this is the framework, this is the structure. So yeah. So Franken Franken book no more. No more. Franken book is a bit more. It's a fully, it's a fully grown book.
SPEAKER_00It has found its winning. So talk to me more about frameworks because you one of the reasons why your book was not a Franken book was because you already had some frameworks already in place. And I believe as a professional speaker, you understand the power of structure and how important that is in communication. So talk to me a little bit more about that and you know, about kind of the framework and how you found it and how you've seen like your audiences. How do they shift when you introduce a framework or structure to them? Do you feel like they get it faster? Are they driving with you more? Do you see more transformation? Like, talk to me more about kind of the importance and power of that structure.
SPEAKER_02I mean, the human brain is wired to, you know, recognize patterns and you know, have sort of like a clean framework to remember. And especially if you are in the quicksand, it's really hard to remember all of the things. Yes. Um, like my I think my brain in quicksand was just well on Swiss cheese. And so I need things that are sticky and memorable. And I'm also, you know, I'm the youngest of three. I think that good things come in threes. So everything sort of follows these frameworks of threes. And so again, that World Health Organization definition of burnout was not sticky for me, even in all of the time that I spent with it in the research that I did. So um it really came out to me as you know, burnout or the quicksand feels like drain, disconnect, and doubt. And and that was really mirrored in the experiences of the individuals that I surveyed in the research.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So again, like really nice to know that I was on the right track. So if we have drain, disconnect, and doubt, then if we're going to get out, then each part needs sort of an antidote. And so I found on my journey that the antidotes to each of those were authenticity, boundaries, and counterbalance. So we've got the three D's and the ABCs. Love it. And it's like if nothing else, if after an hour of all of the words that I put into the universe on a stage, you can remember nothing else. You can remember three D's, ABCs.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so good.
SPEAKER_02And kind of those touchstones to come back to as you're feeling these things, you know, I'm feeling disconnected. I'm feeling like I'm pulling away from the people in my life. I probably need a boundary. And so then within each framework, there's also three. So, like um to jump to boundaries, you know, there's uh relationship boundaries, there's resilience boundaries and renewal boundaries. So you need a boundary, what kind of boundary? And so my goal with the book was to make it to where if if you feel like reading it cover to cover, fantastic. If you need to jump into the boundaries chapter and really understand what kind of boundary you need and how to set it, then then you can do that because in the moment, in the quicksand, we don't always have the luxury of cover to cover. Sometimes we've got to just jump in and solve the problem in real time.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I think for so many people, when they're writing to, especially for nonfiction, these types of books that we that I work with, that you wrote, you really need like very like handles for people because they're they're in the quicksand or they're in something that's really overwhelming, or they feel hopeless. And so they need to hope that it's possible for things to be different for them. And so when they see, like, oh, it's as simple as ABC, you know, it's it starts to give them hope. And of course, it's not truly as simple as A B C. You've got to work it out, and you know, it's never like all easy, but it feels more doable. Like it's like the reader's like, oh, I have a next step. I can do that, I can set a boundary, I can, you know, kind of check in with myself. Is there something that's really draining to me? Or, you know, like all these different ways. Like they can take that and and run with it and give them hope that something can be different. Because by the end, like you were a different person. You started, you became a different person throughout this whole process that you went through, right? Yeah. And these things that you, you know, learned throughout the way were kind of the tools that changed you, and you want to give those tools to other people so that they can also be changed at the same time and they have a transporation. And that again, it's just I talk to so many people who are like, well, I'm not a New York Times, whatever, or I'm not, I don't have like this huge platform or audience or whatever. But I'm like, if you can give people a transformation, that is the basis of a good book. Now, of course, we need to work it out in certain ways, but when you have a transformation, that is ultimately what delivers to people. And you just have such a beautiful transformation in your book for you personally, but then that you're also offering to other people as well. And I think that's just really what makes a good book. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02And I think part of that comes from, you know, I'm an external processor, I'm a connector. You know, again, I've uh I've spent so much time in psychology and HR that I probably know way too much about my how I'm wired. But so I'm sort of this like, I I I started saying like unsolicited advice ahead. Are you like, are you in a place to receive this? Because I am always like giving advice and feedback and like, hey, have you tried this? And so that's what a lot of the book is. And I say in there too, like, take what you need and leave the rest.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I understand that my perspective comes from who I am. You know, I'm a woman, I'm a mom, you know, I'm I'm an entrepreneur. And so not everything I think is is. Perfect fit for everybody, but if you can take a couple of things to help find your way back to yourself, and and you know, you said, like, I became a totally different person. I think what's so wild to me is that I do not think 2020 me would recognize 2026 me. But I am certain that like childhood me would like recognize me. Does that make sense? Yes. Like it's like I have like the the transformation was like back to like my authentic self and like my my favorite thing that's been happening. I'm like getting a little emotional. Like three times in the last couple of months, people have like stopped me either in speaking engagements or you know, consulting, you know, meetings and things, and they've said, I just want to tell you, you're so authentically yourself. Like one woman was like, and I don't think I have any more, but like I had these like sparkle like tinsel in my hair for my daughter's seventh birthday party, and she was like, You've got like sparkly hair and like a band t-shirt under your blazer, and you've got like your tattoo and your sneakers, and she was like, and your hair's kind of like wild, and like it she was like, and I was like, check, check, check. Like all of these things are things that I have given myself permission to live out loud through this journey because that authenticity has brought me so much peace. Yes, that authenticity keeps me from burning out because I'm not trying, I'm not trying to be somebody that I'm not, I'm not faking it, I'm not putting on a face. Like what you see is what you get. And I'm not, I'm not for everybody, and that's okay. Yes. And and so it's that like, and I, you know, I talk about that in authenticity of like permission, like giving yourself the permission to live your authentic self gives you so much of a foothold to then climb out of the quicksand that it's been, I don't know, it's just it's it's been really fun to like recognize that I'm I'm and not only have I done the work, but it's visible to people.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, that's such a good feeling. Such a good feeling. And I think even I'm gonna make a statement that probably will need a ton of caveats to it, but I wonder if one of the reasons why you are able to, because only 3% of people actually write and publish a book. 3%. It's a very small group of people. You're about to join one of them because your book is coming out very soon. And once this episode launches, your book will also be out in the world. But so a very few amount of people do it. And I I think there's a ton of reasons for that. But I think one of them, and I wonder if you would agree with this or not, of one of them is it's a message uh that is so burning to you and so authentic to who you are that it's like you can't not get it out. Right. That if you don't get this out, like a part of you will shrivel up and die, or it will come out like in a sideways, like sideways, you know.
SPEAKER_02I'll I'll be like at the grocery store and be like, oh, can I just tell you? So yeah, it's like it's it's gonna come out somehow.
SPEAKER_00You're the crazy lady that everyone kind of walks around because you won't stop talking about this one topic. I feel that way about books. I'm like, okay, Mikey Let's chill on the books, nobody, it's okay.
SPEAKER_02But I think but so yeah, I it was again it was gonna come out one way or the other. And and there are definitely still times like somebody said something like, uh, I can't wait to read your book. And it was, you know, somebody that I know but I don't know well. And I was like, oh my gosh, what? Sure, sure. Thinking I'm putting this out in the universe, but it's also to your point, if it helps, even if it helps one person, like let's do it. Yeah, even even if it feels uncomfortable, if it makes one person feel more authentic or balanced or you know, finds finds their way, you know, out of that quicksand and let's let's go.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's totally worth it because you felt that transformation and you want to now pass it on. And I think that's what makes books so meaningful is the deep resounding impact that they can have on people in ways that I think other mediums just don't as much. It's hard to communicate all this into an Instagram story or, you know, to have something that people are curling up to reading before bed or you know, reading first thing in the morning or whatever. Like they are ingesting all of this and you get to impart that to them without actually being there. And that's just a really cool, cool way to coach and love and mentor serve other people, you know, while you sleep. Well, you're not even there. And so I just I love that. I'm really excited for you.
SPEAKER_02We love some efficiency, you know. Like if I can, if I can, especially if it's while I'm sleeping, if I can help somebody while I'm sleep, uh love love to see it. I'm done. I'm I'm here. I talk about sleep a lot in the book. And you did no, thank you for that. I love that. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Good. You inspired me actually to get a sleeping app after I edited that chapter.
SPEAKER_02So I love it, I love it. It's one of my favorite things to do is track that sleep that it adds up really fast. It really does. It really does.
SPEAKER_00I know you don't even realize it. 30 minutes here and there, that adds up. Anyway, your book is incredible. It's got so much wisdom and practical uh pieces to it, and it's just an incredibly helpful book. So, what do you hope comes from your book? Like, kind of what's the big dream with the book moving forward?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you know, everything we've talked about, I want people to feel seen and have a language for what they're experiencing because that's something that I wish that I had had in the moment in the quicksand. With that, I want them to have practical tools, you know, um, not just the awareness, but moving into action. And third, you know, part of my, I don't know, my campaign about burnout has been to take it from this idea, it's not a personal failure. It is part of the water we swim in. It's the world that we live in. And it's something that we can address an individual level and at an organizational level. So it's been really powerful over the last couple of years to have, you know, organizations that bring me in to speak to their teams about burnout, to not be afraid to say we recognize it, we see it, and and we want to support you. And so, you know, reading about it is one thing, but you know, working through it and going through that change together, I think all of those things sort of hold hands to everything that you just talked about. I'm so passionate about helping people find their way onto solid ground that however I can do it, I can't afford it. So I love that.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And I know speaking is really important to you and hoping to do more speaking as well with the book, which is so great because now you have the book that you can hand out to people or they can go and buy it. So the people who came to you last time saying, Hey, how do I continue the conversation? Now, here, right here. Here we go. Here's a book for you. I love that. Awesome. Well, where can we find you online? Yeah, where can we find you?
SPEAKER_02So I'm on I'm on LinkedIn. Um, you can search for me there, Lindy Zavy. Um, and also on Instagram. I always joke, I'm terrible at Instagram, but I'm working on it. I know. Um at Lindy Zavy, all one word. Um, and then, you know, just find the book on April 28th. Yes. So I I would just I I'm excited to have it out in the world and like you said, just have it helping people, you know, even when I'm not there right in front of them.
SPEAKER_00So I love it. Amazing, yes. Well, thank you so much for being here, Lindy. I love this, I love this conversation. I'm so excited for all the really, really cool things that are going to happen for you and for all the people who read it. It's a really beautiful, wonderful book. So thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And thank you for all your help getting it getting it this far. I really appreciate it.