Michelle Learns Gaelic
Supporting the growth of and preservation of Gàidhlig and its communities in and around Scotland by connecting learners with resources aimed specifically at the learner experience, as well as connecting learners with each other.
Michelle Learns Gaelic
Interview with Gaelic Teacher and Singer Mary Traywick
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Finally! We've got ourselves an interview episode! I know it's crazy long, but I hope you enjoy it. If you'd prefer to watch this episode, head to Youtube - Michelle Learns Gaelic - and enjoy!
f you'd like to find out learn about Explore Gaelic classes and offerings, email nickiepolson@shaw.ca
If you'd like to work directly with Mary Traywick herself, email her at gaelicisguth@protonmail.com
And finally, if you have any feedback, thoughts, questions, or suggestions, please email me at info@michellelearnsgaelic.com or message me on Instagram at MichelleLovesGaelic
Instagram and Tiktok: @MichelleLovesGaelic
Music By: Ó hEadhra, Brian & Mackenzie, Fiona: "Latha Dhan Fhìnn am
Beinn Ioghnaidh" (A Day for the Fingalians of Beinn Ioghnaidh)
Performed by Ó hEadhra (vocals), Brian, Mackenzie, Fiona
(vocals) and Vass, Mike (fiddle)
Licensed courtesy of Naxos World
Hey there! Welcome to the inaugural Michelle Learns Gaelic interview. Today I'm joined by Mary Traywick, uh incredible singer and teacher of Gaelic. Spends most of her time uh teaching and performing in the US and Canada. Um I met her through Gaelic Song and Language Week, and she's a riot. Um I hope you think so too. So, wow, it's finally happening! Woohoo! Okay, I might leave this part in where I'm freaking out though. Oh yeah, yeah, but it's gonna wanna hold on you.
SPEAKER_04Oh, Hamigama Hairohe, amuy, ah, a machashin. Well, Khanele Koche Savar, I guess, Marchin, you know, uh isak it uh, I guess. Yeah, haroshin holdana. Umsa, ah, Michael Fudak uh I don't tell a yes, I guess Marchin.
SPEAKER_00No um callery uh Dinyela.
SPEAKER_04Uh no manner, na manner, and you um Ghavisjak be me a kosha colory movrad, I guess my fewer saika, ah um and you a kashach yumhain, vamiya doll gush on an cafe.
SPEAKER_03Oh, should shoot. Should hein?
SPEAKER_00Well uh that's what we um uh me kind of me curious.
SPEAKER_04Um hi do lich nur how you graus je how dean of no no a language.
SPEAKER_00Well very curious uh uh oh man. Well well um she me it is uh the uh uh uh uh I'm no uh five Bavy me, baby me, gave her the hospit, gave her the hosket, gavunya. How many girl the uh uh a vanya good uh uh a fine good, whatever. And honey of the uncle to the colour uh a gay shock, right? But it's me, I don't have yeast, honey, and the yeast and the yeast you rich no ay, no shik to nirakashi to go uh uh gus uh um and pull it to them cafe. Yeah, um and a yeast you richol, no uh sminy uh like rudigin ho ho chrome, no no ho sindoch, like uh.
SPEAKER_04Oh shog, well um and you had a yeast me read that vamiji a kosh uh um had holum a v. Headphones, no earbuds, akum agus me a koshok mungorst, you know it, it's gaz uh gaestach nakadikin like in cornerstock. Uh um wouldn't be me uh a could um uh a could kyol ed na speakerin. I can yell fachalakamer speaker. Can you let it uh it it speaker on the gullen?
SPEAKER_00Um well okay can you make a spore solid?
SPEAKER_04Uh yes um show it, shoot.
SPEAKER_00Well um it's that giving me uh uh Jan of Preparations Airson of vod and and as taller.
SPEAKER_04How would yes the cook? How would Jessakuk?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah. So um it's that giving me a jet hug, um more than airs on a vod, and as um um an uh well anybody um uh koshi he me um an korchel like pain vote, like rovor, like mansions an barla. Um I guess uh well for an anivot on I guess um like shiny me like leg ho arch um uh uh uh uh a cut um is me like uh well honeyagiri um fuck I guess well ridden a like hang on um uh uh hamiyagi uh a tingihug um a tingihug a thingy hug. So like um so hug and be uh dinyan sho or diny on shin a sminy hug mission like hotel. Yeah I'm like oh whatever um ha uh uh uh ha a nas of uh ho ho masagas egg of vod um uh I guess uh so so um famo a V coma uh dynasm B E last when you have m memoyan sug shog sug uh I how how me how me uh um yeah be misha a kashok mungurst Agas a shine Nid Vist me coma na hora dani yes men ya cog mummy marihuar Well um then um uh well Han only Bu Khara Kan well Habane Bu Obrach Av like Capi Dolhish Heritage Dolhish and Shok So she Kapi Dolhesh Erson Dunya like Hango um Aragael is border avail um but Alice is mahio band a brin like well all right I guess like another um um uh hoodie uh no hood me cage hood me cage air me cash it could be cage air mean like hami teaching groangala kudramach erson um uh a jin uh no obert no whatever um a gen of nas utrema nas porcela um shog should um I guess but uh uh um a polakri shin eggon am shoiny aun sasachin agus alan alba agas anan uh a swing me um amin uh nuda nuda vishin uh uh shiv agas a shine um ro diny ela in front of other people um yeah like like or bev um oh yeah okay um uh I guess uh well smud he she vele performance like performance or shin sug shug sug yeah so ha ha uh uh uh so Marshin um has she a fas nitabok um kanoshin courstal uh a toga a guin um gohar you know um uh it it was it will in front if it it be love it no role and it and a car. Didn't yeah it's got gives you n is when you had me like oh soha uh can be soha no not course yeah not courst it um no not course me it's like we didn't call a three shin ah um so uh isn't a girl can vele and doha oh this is a lot of goods can be killed I guess all an oun oun earth lion our lion lion well that sounds terrible yeah our bacon lilyle sug Lyle our bella lyle sug sug shug I guess not not not fang sheen a v on an archa uh solemn no um sug egg egg egg an arsht ur um sug air son kill a be oun and I was like well yeah uh yeah shin hokoodra who could draw uh Jane ers on an amas show uh uh uh uh uh uh uh a comin to being a give it a give it a new shin give it a creatin gunushin amikin gun gun canu ruthein be mishush shine be misha shine mahami girivishine agus uh thirty holodunya um a gay fertile holodonya ace joch room no thirtiet uh thirty it a shine kuch shine kuchok no uh thirty it's me hugely glan asmohil given me kijkcha gene of 30 gene of marhakris it yeah yeah but like I mean I mean ha ha dachuj uh be dachuj uh feud like both things are true asmohil out or as mochon I don't know if like you know um like hami a girl shine like you know like but um but yeah so it's me like my shiny giri uh kyola the Ansar fea uh Lyle and then uh Fanishin Ashine Nadahashinagi Fadachin uh fada visible you know show show but so um uh well so fat and be she'll be fat and be fat and be it's not gonna happen but so like you know so her chase and oh well you know um and and Oberth uh sh an oberth uh uh um and in bunskole you know all in a shine on the gala colo I guess you know three shin uh but span me in like well I guess J Ni Usa owns the Alistair um uh uh bea uh ounce do fea do veya um like like like a um do ve laya like no no it not be done yeah right should uh no the is it ni no the knee n yeah no say uh no the knee no the knee or nius actually uh shog shog how kysk nius yeah knee no the knee gnee Oh my shok yeah so the knee the leak I mean go three caviar aunt of you a gien of nansaikan uh aunt being pot like like potter uh yeah yeah like a gn of nan yeah well well she um air son make the galaxy actually make yeah so like so like you're son um opera son rich ya could be be Fachlin ers air son uh erson a lue yeah no uh um well like sure not a tockle no ha ha fachlin Ella on air son make yeah yeah yeah yeah well still give a dollar ash ku uh uh conversation uh uh aran shew yeah cora ha uh uh uh a nishin and you um or a rain she and you gain um maraha ma no mache maybe no yeah maybe mashe gall canon what was it canon idiomatic uh how so canal me make canil canal na un make ah modem facklin on burla ers on j say like mm say oh but no dudan be illegusonica but uh grieva j for itcha o shook shog shok shook shook yeah i mean uh we creating can you be creating or can you be creating years can you create nothing ro glue richala famous a be nas jefricha ettera uh my vishina bream wean phone yeah uh who uh who father et follow uh my vishina bream kill hugter follows some to be yeah well um means when you had given be an uh given um no ma airsan um and oh what what ju airsan um an a nya oh an ana uh an ana a hood to don't uh who uh dunya shinakade I we can equ a velu er san skin uh uh skun could mean and I know yeah yeah so so she saw shiny I guess teacher gala I guess Joe Hodge I guess um jayla ooh still give a um um uh me vroch Mirloch in law um I guess I guess Jayla um I don't know doing a gas can be in law uh so I in la um uh testa um Maribo la anem uh Maribo hashin hashin cuss hashin' cuss uh and Rasta can you can you create el Ira who's too a holo tolly chat well that's cut a very well it's Michael An Savera Mary Travick and Sag I would say to me, my son.
SPEAKER_04Ear sho show so ear and Pacific and West Ear Eir Atlantic East. Rukug is Hokukmi at Tevenir. I guess. I guess who is mehawkel a shin gusan room? I guess it's Jeshin um yimerixhin erished guatalina toolen. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, general fit.
SPEAKER_04Karsana yunzig umkyol and teaver. Nudami a reason blind washin Jidah erchin to Karalina too. Well vami vami rev um et moharing lay kyol edenjak ages alopanach.
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guess um I guess uh voyich uh fair jane kyoletin voikomi n a fudach a shin nam hasin a fudach karomi blue as it each I guess who's downson and I guess uh a vincha kuchak karoyak jake plina um who's who came in ye yee hi hi hi creaching gveli ge the down so I guess so yun sikhi um cameon and she oh son ich um so as Jason Vami gma um vami faraskin uh kjol edenach alapanachjol edenachin who would me kjol alapanach i sman you know can Romi erson uh galik nahering uh yeah yeah yeah I guess Michael I just should show show uh the yunsa lachin I get um vampi gestok the kill Julie Fallus blah blah blah I guess um video uh it agra oh Hamirson and show yun I guess Hurst Daniela Hurstin yella oh well eterleen et avail uh learngallic scott I guess 32 doll on ha ima grut it I guess who's in I guess Hurstmirum well I sir I guess 32 a year of Nataner I can I guess 32 fine mach a vel a noui a hack it lachit kilor yeah no a velu jidah you know jidah how gay yeah um I guess Hashiknir Yunsukishin I guess as J Davliana um Vayakamir Darut uh Vagil More Akam it show I guess Bafay makamer teacher hey hi hi okay wow so she didn't skill akam son well um so das mean does m das mean akum um should um ignosha mini hug you will gat skill uh inch no a hugged a tosh hug le well shak well you I guess I guess an urshan um well her case um a bit thing yeah I did um jay jay ordin galax no ordin albanak a whole uh a cool a whole well like july foul me a swing no hami hammi krechin hami kreching it so who would mean Julie Fowlis uh uh uh brave I guess uh oh stolum gor na kjol uh and kjol sa soum shin I guess but skill nah and kjol kanyomi kanyok nah nakam it and skill stolen skiel ah and kyol um I guess uh Julia Shane I guess by Miss Manikok oh Hago Bria eichke I guess Avil Claude eichke I guess Hunami Guru Ach fight Ola Sagalik I guess he'll meet well J J or a Charlotte like like a egg an om Shin a Sagalik and an or an a viarum I guess uh the first target is na fockland um well has I suppose um na pushed um Vashin ho sparselum sparsal yum it I guess um um I mean if you have around I guess I Rui Erbar Mohangeoloch er napershin I Rui irbar mohenge I mean I mean a year me a touching stoch show show show um oh big and josh on live maroon stalcha the shin um fair jinak or an uh a yun sigh me so garlic nud nahro gallic va a each each and uh a yun sikmi shorn an or not oh about uh it's like honey on me um han gon uh uh shine uh hanodangon a sh and tordin a shine um cash a niche so shog sug shin marhai oh um as julief um uh who is me Rachel Walker could you can as me who is me Hamifarakin mar explorer colonial who is me rev al guessha yolo cut me um who is me and Kyle I guess um Braya Loch heel Bishin Bishin a heat aren't galik how many how many can you beshin a heat arein garlic a young like in run avail avail na fachlin has no I guess avail me um can um furrich me Oh hate is gun chadish gunish numbo fatinky snuri oh guru ah well I an orange in a co ha and orange in a co fregachtoo shine be show freckrach I guess van the fachlin a doll mungors mungors gors is be to uh be to gunra a yeast to east I guess marchin' a toran chin yuntuhog nah oran ella aha nasmoa I guess no nasmoya no um isak it not a poor should be a hound yeah yeah no you uh you're poors get uh get get nahro that uh that a gala oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but should I can't jeffer uh this my uavasaq uh uh push a bill yana shock shock I guess though though the beal goulet um like I'm an arch uh maybe yeah like I'll uh um like like I'm an arch for the vele for the game is a V or some like um na Falkland a doll ma colo sa well not well yeah yeah yeah subacor show shock shock shock yeah I uh how me how me um yeah how many get me how many creating uh yeah yeah so karomo karomovlas nahway donnah me enough yeah well ha ha mokoch bloss like mochujas yeah so don't like donor so be a cash hookshin' donut how you get hookshin' glan is salute I guess do the vist of loss don't have it hookshin' yeah yeah yeah yeah how me a hookshin I mean uh be um uh like Hanal Misha nolicha maybe like I'm no expert oh ha nyomishia nam yolika hash and gmac yarst yeah but I I mean like be alm uh uh leva sagal and I'll give us uh like how me a tilting givel and there no no the high gra um ho furasta me it's she made Egypt Egypt so like oh um Hami Aswinihadguil um an inud as chujmecha um well she uh an inrud aschujamicha um i um um vig the grammar and grammar grammar grammar grammar the grammar um a cash and cone wait oh well how many a giddy you say you could have um like you could have the best grammar in the world and it don't matter at all if if nobody can understand the words that are coming out your mouth that is true hashin fear yeah yeah well you be a uh mama uh um uh uh uh uh um uh giveaway she's a doll uh fada uh um smoot me uh further than i thought i would be able to be creating uh shock i guess ha han yeah uh yeah well i guess um uh well and kusper uh hami agiri a bring me kujok yeah uh like mama uh and me uh an episode ala uh photography a bream shin avail.
SPEAKER_03Ahimi ga jarva sharil
SPEAKER_00Okay. I can't remember. Ganame Machine.
SPEAKER_04Um uh omnisajah erosonna kusp um kuspedenshin uh kuspa shin um erskaskubele ho in shino suremshin yeah I love it I think like one of my goals is like I think like we always talk about like we I say we I I mean the royal we I always talk about like how queen that's right that this is Leo season um but uh like I I think about one thing that a lot of people talk about myself included is how difficult it is when you're learning a second language especially or or an additional language an L2 as an adult like how how hard it is to be able to well we say sound as intelligent as we are or as knowledgeable or things like that but actually the thing that I want more than that um because I think any attempts to learn and use an L2 automatically make you sound intelligent like no matter your level because it it it takes brains you know it does it takes some cleverness some intelligence some some perseverance stick to it so I'm not worried about sounding smart you know I'm sorry no I just realized something about myself that the whole time we were talking in Gallic I was not fidgeting I didn't have the fidget toys going I wasn't messing with them I was focused and locked in on what we were saying because I needed that extra brain power but the second we switch back to English I'm like this is my water monitor his name is Brechen this is my frog you should Progila so don't break oh I I should have thought of that no I literally just named I think it's a her actually I literally just named her today Glensach shiny yeah you know Glensach called Glensachen Glensach yeah well that we're but it was funny uh it's but yeah I think that's a really good demonstration just of the brain power that it takes to speak in another language it's yeah tiring it's hard work for your brain even even as you approach fluency I think there is a point of fluency at which it doesn't take as much effort like it it's it's barely noticeable effort but it still is slightly more effort than your native language and so you know don't beat yourself up it you know don't think you sound stupid because you don't you sound like someone who's working very very hard is what you sound like well and I think too like I mean kind of to that point it's like I think like one thing that like you know we've talked to I've talked to you a bit about the willingness to communicate thing and then I did like the whole like 30 minutes or something um in a previous episode about this but it's like sometimes you start to lose the willingness to communicate which is just to like show up and and be in a conversation and be a participant because your brain just gets tired or overwhelmed you know it can it's like I I think like even when I was at my best at Japanese like still it would be refreshing to to fall into English a bit like it would feel it would feel like maybe like a 20 pound weight has been lifted off of my brain or like like I didn't have to be constantly dialed in constantly dialed in like and it's funny because I was at this Star Bizzle the other day um and I was I was working on some Gaelic stuff and there were these two older ladies and they started speaking Japanese and I had that that same feeling of relief I was like study everything even though I haven't used it in forever and even though you know I I didn't have any context for what they were talking about but I could understand everything they were saying without having to think about it.
SPEAKER_00And I think that that was also a sign of like how much work my brain is still having to do in Galax is when when this other L2 that I haven't used in probably a solid decade pops up and I'm like oh sweet relief you know like it feels better than this yeah yeah so well but like the thing that I really want like I said I think like if anybody is using it and trying like you've already signaled your intelligence like don't worry about that so much for me the thing that I really want like I've I don't know if I'm any good at it but I for me a core part of my own personality is being silly. Like I don't like to take things serious that aren't serious because there's so much serious shit like going on all the time. Like even just this morning I got some like real sad news about someone in my life and like it's like Oh I'm sorry. Uh yeah and I and I say it completely like in passing not because it doesn't weigh on me a lot but because it's like now it's not the time for the place but I'm not the time for the or the place no no it's not no it isn't but I also want to mention it because it's like because that thing like you know so a friend of mine passed away and she was a Gaelic speaker and like it's just very very sad. And like but the thing is is like that's very serious you know like that's a truly serious thing in my life very few other things are that fucking serious you know so like how can I and and how do I get to be that person in Gaelic? How can I be that be silly in Gallic and make sure that if I'm being silly I'm understood as being silly being silly and not just being pissed for Gallic. You know what I mean? Like like I like to make jokes or I like to I like levity a lot it's really important to me. And so like that is the that's actually like fluency yes but like my my fake goal is to be able to be myself in Gallic. And so and of course they always say like humor and jokes are the last things you get like to understand in another language that's that's the sign of true fluency and even then because it also means you've been able to take in like cultural signals and all these unspoken things and whatever um but that's fine. I don't mind for that but I need to be funny before that.
SPEAKER_04So you know I yeah yeah I do get that because I mean I think we're very much on the same page there. I'm like I want to be silly yeah like because like you said life is serious enough thanks I don't need to make it more serious as a matter of fact like this is how I cope is by being very very silly all the time whenever I can be that's why I have a frog and a lizard. Yeah yeah yeah and they and the frog sits on the lizard's head. And I mean one thing that I will say is that is fortunate about Gallic is that you know despite all the very very serious stuff that has happened in Gailed's past and there is a lot or possibly because of it because you'll often find that the people who suffer the most are often the funniest people. Yes hello Michelle we're all glad you're here with us today.
SPEAKER_00I didn't mean to be like yes I'm a victim but no I understand you know you know what I'm saying um um I just think a lot about myself in that statement like I've been through a lot and I'm so hilarious.
SPEAKER_04I'm hilarious because of it right I have some really dark humor so well there is that you you do get the dark humor because of that but um possibly because of it they tend also to be a very silly it tends to be a very silly language it tends to be very full of jokes and banter especially and tease banter's so hollow if you it is but I'm like that's literally the only way I know how to flirt is to banter.
SPEAKER_00Yes and I'm silly I don't know how to do it any other way like if you banter with me oh my god can you imagine one day bantering in Gallic? Oh I think I would probably just cuckle right then it's it's it's it's I mean I have to be very careful about how I phrase this next sentence I have bantered platonically in Gallic.
SPEAKER_04Yeah and it is and it is very fun. But um anyway one of the things I was thinking of was that one of the ways I think that kind of helped me develop kind of the silliness in Gallic was one having teachers who banter teachers who tease each other. Like if you can find teachers who are fun who are goofy who make up silly things to say as drills that's one of the best things you can do like find fun people. It's not hard the Gallic world is full of fun people are you one of them are you one of the fun teachers Barry I try I try I try very hard I try my best to be yes yes sell yourself yes I am a fun teacher of Gallic I'm not good at unreservedly positive statements about myself Michelle that's what I have you for yeah anyhow but um and also playing games because you can play you can play in Gaelic just like you can in English like be playful with it. Oh yeah oh Scrabble yeah uh but one of the ones I was playing once was a game of taboo do you know how to play taboo yeah yeah yeah I love taboo anybody who's not familiar because I know this is a you know podcast um one of the things that's so popular um anyhow so the way you play um the way you play taboo is just you are given a thing that you try to get everybody to guess you have a card there's a word on it you try to get everybody to guess what the word is but you're not allowed to directly say what the word on the card is you have to describe it you have to circumlocute which is a fantastic for circumlocution which is a pretty vital skill when you're speaking a non-native language because sometimes you find yourself trying to say something as Michelle and I were doing during the conversation and you go I don't know how to say this. I'll find another way to say it. And then B, it's really really fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And um one of the things we were doing was I was uh with my friends Fiona and Angus and I I got the word Czechisk, you know, teaching and I looked at it and I went this is something that Fiona and Angus both do. It was like the end of the class so I was like let me just say this quick and get it over this is something Fiona and Angus both do. And Angus without missing a beat because he's Angus goes um I'm a check which means idiocy and I without missing a beat responded I said Fiona and Angus do it.
SPEAKER_00I said Fiona and Angus do it not just Yeah not just you Agus Angus yes yes that that witty repartee is required yes is required you have to be you have to be quick on the draw.
SPEAKER_04Yeah but if you are super fun but yeah so I guess what I'd say about that is yeah it is hard to be silly in your non-native language because you don't have the vocabulary for it yeah um just for one thing but um and then you also don't quite have like you said kind of the the cultural sense of like what is an although you know we talk a lot about how humor is cultural. It is but there's still a lot of humor that translates across cultures like I was watching a Japanese yeah yes exactly I was watching a Japanese show that um it's called Daughter of Lupon and it's about a girl I have you seen Daughter of Lupon? I haven't seen it but I am familiar okay yeah about a like young woman who she comes from a family like they're just generational thieves.
SPEAKER_00They're some of those people who have like they've just been thieving since forever have they never stolen enough to not need to do it or they just do it for the thrill?
SPEAKER_04They just do it for the thrill of course I mean it's a very silly show. And then she falls in love with a cop who comes from a family of like generational cops. And so she's like well obviously I can't tell him my whole family are thieves and so the whole like also they like to steal like you know steal from the rich and give yeah they probably did it plus taxes to the poor. Yeah they deserved it. But anyhow so um so I I was watching it I was like I bet that there are some things in here that would make more sense to me if I was Japanese or you know like little little jokes that I'm missing or you know but most of it is hilarious like no matter what language you're in. This is just funny to watch yeah so you know try being silly yeah try see what happens I can't resist I mean exactly you know like you're not gonna be able to stop yourself so just you know go for it see what happens if you see the opportunity for a joke make a joke if you see the opportunity for a pun make a pun.
SPEAKER_00I don't punch in Gallic though do you know anything anything you can pun?
SPEAKER_04I mean you can pun just like you can pun in English um just yesterday I was talking about we were talking about this word HEP H or T H E H E like almost which means almost yeah but like only in certain contexts and then we were talking about like where it comes from and um uh Fiona said oh it's in the outer Hebrides it's mostly like the outer Hebrides and I went ah the Hebrides yes yes yes bo it's that bo I warn you I am full of dad jokes flee for your lives flee now the best jokes are the worst ones so that's true that's true the best jokes are the ones where only you are laughing yes yes well everyone else is throwing things at you okay yes yes concur concur yeah yeah yeah yeah well so I guess like when did you did you have a point in time when you I or maybe you always felt this way but did you have a point in time when you felt like you were kind of more fully well okay let me walk that back for a second because I think there's a a more relevant lead question here.
SPEAKER_00How do you evaluate your own I guess I don't want to say level of Gallic but your own level yeah your own level of Gallic competence like you know other people might call you fluent would you call yourself fluent like how would you evaluate that well first of all we have just we have talked about how I am not good at unreservedly positive statements about myself as if somebody else is as if you're talking about someone else as if I'm talking about someone else okay yeah um oh no no I was just saying like like like like we're talking about we're talking tea about this other girl named Mary like how's her gallic yeah yeah her conversational skills could use some work um I I feel that when I am I I did hit a point um just a little while ago actually where I suddenly realized I was like I can read prose which is a big honking deal because when you're handed you know a piece of paper this you know like a page like that long that's just words in your non-native language it is actually really hard at least it at least it is for me to focus in and get into that sort of like deep reading state that I need to be in in order to read.
SPEAKER_04Like I need to be kind of fully in the book in order to read it's it's kind of complicated. I'm either like just staring at it and not paying any attention or I'm invested. And it's really hard to get there when every few seconds you have to stop and look up a word and go, what is this phrase? What is this connected to? And just about maybe a year half a year ago I realized I think I can read novels. I think I can do that. I think I'm okay to read a novel.
SPEAKER_00That's so interesting because like I'm reading Varnish Leo right now and I don't use the dictionary at all and and and I've been that way you know and it's not it's not just like children's books though our my everybody everybody who knows me if I've talked to you about a book Arstra Sachastel is like freaking hilarious. It's so funny you must read it with all your students everybody must read it it's a it's it's it's like um who who wrote it is it Molokanov's name I can't remember but like it's it's great it's it's I would say lower intermediate but like it's just fantastically funny. It's about this kid who goes on a school trip to uh a castle Arthur goes to a castle um and and the the things that happen there but it's just fabulously written but yeah I remember adult fiction too but like when so what what this is why I'm not saying this like in any way but because it leads to me wanting to ask you a question about that. Like so I read it and one of the things I make sure I do is actually don't use the dictionary for anything because I'm trying to I remember learning to read when we were in school I could read by the time I got to kindergarten but the focus was around reading comprehension i.e reading context clues right so I'm like if I don't know a word or I'm not quite sure of something what's the context around it because I think too many people immediately like I had a friend she was like I have to read with the dictionary by my side and I have to look up everything and I'm like then you're not reading because like reading requires you to to ingest the message of the actual contiguity a word like the contiguous nature of content well it's like the oh oh contigu right yes like the connectivity yeah like the the how it all goes together and so right by that you've interrupted the flow to look up what this one word means and then you're like but is it in this form and then you don't under you are so you need to read at the right level right that's important.
SPEAKER_04But when yeah well you can say what you're gonna say and then I'll finish where my actual question was it's okay it's okay I I was just going to say um I was going to say that uh yeah for me I I do I do agree that when I was a kid and I would be reading you know and you know encountered words I didn't know all the time I just go well I guess I'll just figure out what that means from the surrounding context. I think the reason I had I wasn't able to do that with Gallic before is that my vocabulary was not big enough that I could figure out what was happening from the surrounding context whereas like now it's more like I'm getting most of it there's just this one word.
SPEAKER_00And that's kind of what you need to be able to pick out from context what's happening I think at least for me for me personally it wasn't until I can't remember how far I am in this book I was like oh it's a bracelet like it didn't matter like the the hope to do it it's not really about a bracelet it's about a people a person but the the kind of thing that kicks it off a bit is this bracelet. And I'm like well whatever it's a thing right and like now knowing that it's a bracelet didn't change anything else I understood about it because the way in which the bracelet is introduced and dealt with more importantly was the fact that there was a thing related to an event that connected people together you know but if the bracelet had had a more central role in the story then it would have done more and there would have been more interaction and description related to it specifically than the fact that people were talking about the bracelet but they were talking about because there were events that occurred and the way they they they recognized that was this bracelet was in these places and times with these people, you know? So like I think it I think it kind of depends really but again it was like like so like I read um what was a What's it the that um yeah I'm obviously messing around with things now too because we're no longer in Gallia. Um what's it called? It's the sufferer. Uh it it came out it's about JFK uh the assassination of JFK and I keep wanting to say unkoikodok, but that's not right.
SPEAKER_04Um it's Bullang Geeker, I think maybe. Was it Bullang is suffering.
SPEAKER_00No, it starts with a C. Um Oh okay then. Um but anyways, the point being as I look for this, is that um that one it was a shorter story, but I could read it without needing to look anything up. There were things I didn't necessarily what I well what I would do is I would read a whole chapter and then it because the chapters were short, and then I would go back and I would reread the chapter um and look up the words that I didn't know and see if that impacted my under like if those new those words I didn't know now knowing them impacted my understanding at all. Um, and so like kind of very rarely did it. And so that's kind of I think what gave me some of the confidence to go ahead and just keep going. Um and like so, but I'll tell you, on the other hand, I'd like, and this is why I think it's related to also like reading at the right level, like a bit of a stretch, like, oh, here's a good one, like Hosnock Sahalu, Alice and Lang. That one was funny because I have that background in fraud and risk management, there were specific words that even though I didn't know them, because of the way they were used and the other things that were going on, it's like, I bet that's what this means. I bet that's you know, cybersecurity or password changes or this or this or that, you know what I mean? And it didn't be right. So, like, that's where like having some specialized knowledge was helpful. But like, I've but when I went to try and read freaking Al Nodrua, screw that book. That was the first page. No, I don't know if it'd be true now. But last year when I moved to Glasgow, it was one of the first books that I bought, and I was like, what the I read this as a child. What the f is going on on this first page? Like, no clue. No clue.
SPEAKER_04It is unkraniche. I I I just looked up Sufferer in Farklebeck and I was gonna tell you, and then you were going on a very interesting story, and I didn't want to derail you, so I didn't it is cranique.
SPEAKER_00So I recommend it. I okay because you feel you understand what the thing is, is I would say the whole time you're thinking about like why is it called this? Who is the suffering one? And you're you're a bit I think you're led to believe that the sufferer might be Maori or it might be um Lee Harvey Oswald. But there's a twist in terms of who the sufferer is, and you don't really understand it until the last chapter. And I don't want to say more, but I would love I would love if anybody's read it, I would love to hear if they know what I'm talking about, and if you ever read it, I would love to know if you know what I'm talking about. I think you can, I think some of those ones where you might be able to get the free audiobook too. So you might be able to just listen to it on audio because like I don't know if you knew that, but Corla and Nanloli, no no, Corla Nanloli does that sometimes, um, where they have the free audiobooks. So you just like you have to add it to your cart as if you're gonna check out, and then you check out but it's free and you just listen to it. But uh, yeah, anyways, so like, but I don't know, which I thought I should be able to read without any help. I was like, I can't understand a single word, you know, hardly anything. And so like I thought this is one where I'm gonna have to refer back to my dictionary too much. I'm I'm never gonna be able to like no way, like I will I will never make it through this like 300-page book because it's like super long too. Like, you know, so I didn't bother. But anyways, to like circle that all the way back around to the original question, which I do remember. When you said you could finally read prose, do you mean not do you mean because this I can't do, I'll tell you that for sure. Do you mean you were able to read it and not just like understand most of it or understand words or get context clues and stuff like that? Do you mean you were able to as ascertain style in the writing as well?
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's a good question. I would say yes. I would say I would say yeah, I would say I was feeling okay, this is being told in this particular voice. And you know, that's style in English is already hard to put your finger on, so it's you know, it's like don't subjective, really. Ask me to explain. Yeah, it is very subjective, so like don't really ask me to explain what that meant to me exactly, but I do I did I was saying, okay, no, I'm getting a sense of what the author is trying to do here, and that is different from just I understand what the words mean. Yeah, and that is that was pretty big, and um, yeah, and also I feel like I I I kind of want to like explain, like I've I've okay, so you know this. Recently become pretty much convinced I have ADHD. I'm seeking a diagnosis because you know I don't like to say officially that I have it until I have until I know. But um it's kind of made me re- it just kind of made me reassess a lot of things about my life, and one of the things I've realized is that the way I read is kind of all or nothing. Right, okay. And it's like either, like I said, I'm either in the book, yeah, yeah, absorbed by it, yeah, or I'm not focused. And I actually found this very frustrating because reading is one of the things I love. Yeah. But I've realized that I struggle very much to read when there's so many words I don't understand, so many phrasings I don't understand, that there's no possibility for me to go, okay, I'm getting this from context. Like I I figure this is basically what it means, I'm just gonna keep going. Yeah. Um, or you know, I know a word that is similar to this. This is another big thing. If you can start to recognize, well, that word sure as heck looks like this word over here, I'm gonna guess they're related.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um like, like um, I'm trying to think of a good pair right now. Like fulang. I knew fulang is to suffer or suffer with. So I thought to myself, it's probably fulangika. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sufferer. I don't know, but I'm gonna guess it's foolangika. And if I had seen Fulangika, I would have gone, okay, that's a sufferer. That's what that is.
SPEAKER_00Well, and to that point, if you don't know and you use it in a sentence, it may not be a word, right? But somebody will actually understand you because they understand fulling. You know, they'll be like, oh, it's like fade, I don't know what he does. He's like a he's like a a grass mower er.
SPEAKER_04A grass mower. It's like, okay. That's not a word, but I know what you meant. Yeah, I know what you're gay at. Yeah. So it's kind of diff. Yeah, and that's you know, that's um, I feel like this leads us well into, you know, talking about communication and how to communicate when you're not sure of the word and like circumlocution is one thing you can do, just kind of go around the thing, say like, well, this is I I told you about this yesterday, but um one of the times I remember is trying to talk about a stream, but I didn't have the word for stream, and I couldn't remember it, so I went alin a like a river, but but little. And Angus immediately went, Oh, alt. And I went, thank you, Alt. Yes, yes. And that's one of the things you could do. And then another thing is um uh another thing is to use the words that you've got with the grammar that you've got. Because if those two things are lining up, if the words are right and the grammar is right, chances are people are gonna understand you. And you know, you you do this in English. Uh you don't do it as often because you have more words, but kids will do it. You know, I can I can very easily imagine a kid going, that's the grass mower. Yeah. You're like, well, that it is. You're right. You're not wrong, but we use you're not wrong. We have a word for it, but you know what? You're right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you know, sometimes, because I know you are a writer, and so am I. But sometimes when you one of the things that's really fantastic, I think about learning language, right? So, like my own example, when I was learning Japanese, we had learned how to make causative verbs, right? Because like in Japanese you do all kinds of verb conjugation. You're really you're conjugating all day or day, and so like you add a seru or seru to a verb root. And so I was listening to a song that I loved, and then for the first for the first time I realized, I was like, oh, they say komoda septiku. Kumoda septiku. And I'm like I'd never heard kumorasu before, or komodase mas. But I knew kumoru, komori, komodis cloud. It was like make cloudy, right? And I was like, I understand this. Wow, things have become like foggy or cloudy or clouded or whatever, right? To make that like and then I thought like there is something about kumoricu that's such a more vibrant or pleasing way to say to make something or something is made to become or something has become or something, you know. I mean, like to me, kumoraseru is so much more a a vibrant like word picture than something like that. So, like when you play around with language like that, like maybe you're like, it's the grass bummer, you know, and Gallic, the full full, or whatever, you know, it actually might be giving you an opportunity to think even on umberla a different way of using English to make a more startling, like um um um phrasing or something like that too.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04And that's you know, that's the beauty of language is that it's not I was just thinking today about how I wouldn't say learning a language is an artistic pursuit, but I think it's closer to art than it is to science, if that makes sense. You know, not meaning to knock on science or anything, but just that it's it's not like math where two and two make four every single time. You know, you can play with it, is what I'm trying to say. I'm probably not saying this very well because science aren't my thing. So, you know, there's probably some STEM person out there going, what are you talking about? Completely logical with rules. Yeah, um, sorry. But I apologize. But you know, it's you can play with it, it's flexible, it's versatile, and you can allow that versatility to help you if you're trying to talk. Yeah, but you you don't have to stay stuck.
SPEAKER_00Um I'm about to say something really cringy.
SPEAKER_04Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00So there's this guy, this makeup youtuber, Instagram guy, Robert Welsh, and he's like, he would always get irritated because people would be like, there are no rules in makeup, and then they'd look like just do completely whack things to their faces. And he's like, there are, he's like, there aren't how does he say it? There are no rules, but there are basically, oh, I I'm so sad I can't remember exactly how he says it, but he's like, there aren't rules, but there are like smart good things to do so that you can make it look like you want, you know, you start from knowing how things work, so then you can then execute on whatever the look you want to do, however you want your eyeshadow to look, you can actually make it look that way by using the techniques that allow you to break the rules cleanly. So I would say it's probably it is a bit of the two, right? Like it, I think it it language native or L2s or L40s, if you've like learned every language there is really, like has structure. But oh for sure, for sure gives way to creativity, right? Like, even for people who feel the most uncreative, because like like you may think like an artist starts with nothing and then and then creates something, but that's not necessarily true if they're a painter. Well, you've already started with a something there. What do you paint? What do you paint on? What do you use to paint? How all of those things actually make are are important into determining what the actual final painting is, right? Because you didn't make a fucking box, you made it painting, right? There's no way you suddenly were like, I've got these paint brushes and this canvas, look at the jar, you know, like the physical jar. Maybe you painted a jar, but you know what I mean? You didn't suddenly exactly so like like it's definitely you it can give us access to a lot more creativity too that we may not realize. Like you are being a creative being when you're taking pieces of a thing and and trying to make something out of it, even if it's just a kimara gadalial, you know, like you've you've you've you're not creating a sentence that's never existed before. Maybe that's a paint by number, but but we all I think we all desire to do some make beautiful things, and you know, that's why paint by numbers exist for adults too, like or adult coloring and things like that. And um, it's it's just still fill it in. Yeah, it's still your contribution. So yeah. No, I think I think your analogy works, and I probably even made it worse. Okay, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04I don't think so at all. I think you filled it out. Um but yeah, it's yeah, it's you know, it's an it's an analogy, it's not perfect, but there is something to, you know, you can be creative with language. And I do like your point that, you know, there's structure. There are there are things that you that's why I said like if you're using the vocabulary and the grammar, because if the vocabulary's right and the grammar is right, people will understand you. If the vocabulary and the grammar aren't right, that's where you start that's where you start flailing. But if the vocabulary and the grammar are there, then you can play with them to make a sentence, even if you don't really have the words or the exact phrase that people would use for this normally. And you can still make people understand you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, it's kind of like you know how people are always knocking on no socks for like putting English and but it's like, but the thing is, is like it even to that point, it is better if you were to substitute in the English in the right place in the grammar, because then people will understand you're just missing the word versus trying to like substitute an English word into grammatic in the grammatically correct place in a Gallic sentence is better than trying to insert Gallic into like like English grammar into into your Gallic utterance because that just fucks it completely. Like, like you know, I'll always be like, oh homie a swingy hugging, like because I'm just being stupid, you know, like but like I'm not truly, but like if I'm like, yeah, like like like homie a swingy hug, you barely like ho ho uh like competent, uh, you know, blah blah blah. Well, I've I've put I've put the adjective in the right place where an adjective would go and I can be understood, and I don't have to just completely destroy or derail the conversation or a flow of communication, because the one the the blessing and the curse, as we've talked about with Gallic, is there's never going to be a Gaelic speaker who doesn't know English at this point, you know. So so I can but I can still prioritize keeping Gaelic going with with that utterance in there rather than being like, S when you have given I don't know. I just think she's competent, you know what I mean? Like just using those things. Just keep going. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And keep going. I did that once we were doing a class on um word order reversal, and I was realizing at the same oh yes. And I was realizing at the same time that like the light was going down outside my window, and it was getting gradually darker and darker and darker in my room. I was just fading into the shadows. Right. And so I went, um, Gal Valeshkel, fame me, and light a turn on look. And I got up. And the thing is, you know, you're never gonna reach fluency if you keep doing that, if you keep allowing yourself to do that. But it's a good placeholder, and like you said, it's really good to use the English word in the Gallic grammar because then at least you're reinforcing the structure in your mind and you're giving priority to the Gaelic, like you said, and and people can see, okay, you just don't have the word, but the grammar's there. Yeah. Like, you know, that was what Fiona said when I came back. She was like, those words were not correct, but the grammar was fine. So you're doing fine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Like it's like there's a time and a place, like when you're in when you're in a conversation, because this is one thing that people stress out a lot, is like, I even used it, like in the reading part, like my grammar's, my my vocabulary is not big enough. And and like mine, I'm sure is quite small, you know, but it's like but you, you know, pe there's this thing where they're like, well, you don't want to spend five minutes looking up on Cranichia because you need to know what the title is, you know. Like in the middle of a conversation. What kind of conversations have you been having? Well, none with me, I guess. But like I guess not. But it's like uh, but you know, they're like, you can't just be whipping out a dictionary all the time, looking up every single word you need, because that breaks communication. And that's actually true. It it will break communication. So it is it is these strategies, and and the the the blessing is we've got there is the blessing that we do have access to the English to fill in the gap where we can't. But it's like, but like, no, like if you're in an oral exam with your instructor, probably searching for the Gallic word is important. Um probably. If you're writing something, use the freaking dictionary, you know. Like, but you know, but if if the goal is to have a conversation with someone, keep talking, keep talking. You know, take pauses where you need. If you know that you've encountered the word, try for the recall, because that's where the learning and reinforce reinforcement happens. But but like I think people just put way too much pressure on themselves, too, to to be able to do every single thing in Gaelic all the time. And and and and I while when we talk about cultural and historical problems, um, even in modern day stuff with like English and and and English Celts in Gaelic and all this stuff, totally a hundred percent like these are problems, but but it don't let it don't let it stop you from communicating, but also don't let the ability to do that for a while, as you were saying, do something that um Agag Agavobroyin and I were discussing um in a Facebook post where it's like people get sick and tired of hearing uh what Sha Galax of Brishha na Galax of Hish. Like, no, actually, like to an extent, but then but it's not it's not actually better if everybody's Gaelic is just Because they don't bother like making it Bjar Gallic, better g you know Gallicus. Yeah, yeah, no shaw. So like there is yeah, no shaw, there's like there's like it's much harder to like throw in Gallic in the middle of an English and it is actually. Like, this is real hard. I can't figure it out.
SPEAKER_04But I mean in English mode right now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but it's like a line. There is a line, absolutely. And one of the things I would say, so this is something I've been pondering on, and it comes up for me because, you know, in addition to Gallic, I also teach singing. And, you know, espe I feel like this happens with all music, but it especially happens with singing because there's something about that barrier between you and the audience just being completely gone. Like, you know, a piano, you're sitting at the piano, you're looking at the keys. You don't have to look at the audience. That's right. Guitar, you've got the guitar in your lap. You can look at your fingers, you can look at the chords. Singing, you're there. That's you. There's nothing between you and the audience. Never been more naked in your life, actually, even with clothes off. Yes. Yes, exactly. Because now you're not only supposed to be like just, you know, you've got to use the instrument that you've got and just pray it functions. And functions well enough that people want to listen to it. Um, and also you've got to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_00But then by your emotion that you're do they think you look insane where you feel like you look like loving, you know?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you have to be vulnerable to people in a way that you're not with other instruments. So, in a way, singing is actually very similar to speaking in another language is a very similar level of vulnerability because you just have to be you. Yeah. And also extremely like hyper competent and capable. And, you know, so you get stage fright in both cases. And I was thinking about stage fright, and I was thinking about how people beat themselves up. And I swear I am going somewhere with this, and it is relevant to the conversation. Um, but I was thinking about how people beat themselves up. Yeah, I know. Um, how I I'm apologizing to all the other tough shit. Yeah, this is Michelle's podcast. Right. Um so I was thinking about how people beat themselves up for having stage fright. They beat themselves up for like, you know, I locked up on stage, I couldn't keep going. Like, I just got so nervous and I freaked out and I left. And I look at that and I go, you know, they're like, I failed. I failed. I wanted to do better and I failed. And I look at it and I go, okay. If you went into the gym right now, you know, assuming you're not a person who lifts weights already, you went into the gym right now and you tried to pick up like the heaviest weight they have, and you weren't able to do it, would you say to yourself, I have failed? Or would you say to yourself, I'm not able to pick up this weight yet? Let me go lift smaller weights until I am stronger. For some reason, when it comes to mental things, we think, you know, that you should just be able to do it. Like no matter what. It's just willpower. That's all it is. But no, there is like a muscle that needs to get flexed over and over and over. I mean, it's you know, it's not a literal muscle, but there is something that you have to keep doing the thing until you reach a point of competency and and confidence and ability. So if you're getting stage fright, you're not failing. You've just found out where your limits are. Maybe your limits are this many people in this room. Maybe you need to back off. You need a smaller group, you know, all that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00And so you drunk like I do. That's all satisfying.
SPEAKER_04Oh, really? Uh nor do that. You know, maybe you need anxiety medication that might help too. Um, but anyhow, um, so connecting that back to language and speaking, I feel like people do this to themselves when they're in a conversation and they have to switch to English, or they couldn't quite say what they wanted to say, or they couldn't um they couldn't uh they didn't phrase it correctly, or the the wrong grammar came out, the wrong word came out. You do this to yourself, you go, I failed. I failed, I failed, I failed. You didn't fail. You found out where your limits are. Yes. Now you've that's good. That's good. You know where the limits are. You know where what your abilities are and where you still have to keep working. Now you can go away and practice. Now you can, you know, try to take, like, okay, I didn't have the word for that. You probably will not remember all the words you didn't have, but if you can remember even some, you can go, I didn't know how to say competent. How do I say competent? You can take it away and go look it up later and try to say it to yourself over and over and over in a sentence. You can train, you can strengthen that muscle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, but you're never gonna be able to do that if you don't know where your limits are. So go out there and test the limits and find out, okay, this is where I'm still struggling. This is this is where I still have a problem, and then go train. But, you know, to add into your the point you were making, you have to go train, yeah, or else you're never gonna be able to lift that 150-pound weight. Yeah, yeah. It's both. It's both if you want to lift that 150 pound weight, you gotta go train. Yeah. But don't feel bad because you weren't able to do it before you've done the training for it. Yeah. So that's you know, like that's how I view it. It's like while you're in the middle of a conversation, no, is not the time to be running to the dictionary and looking things up, unless, you know, the other person is going, no, I want to know the word too. You can look it up right now because I gotta know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Or you can multitask where you're like, yeah, multitask on the key topic. Yeah. Yes. Shanackadel.
SPEAKER_04That's actually another that's another thing, actually, that um just learning the you know the filler phrases. This is one thing that I um that I learned and was so relieved to learn because I do this anyway. Gales are active listeners. Uh huh. While you're talking, they're gonna be going, oh shogji, shog, shog, ghost, oh shogji doch. They they don't stop making noise while you're talking. And I was so relieved because I went, I do that anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04How was it gonna stop doing it? Oh yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. So um, so that shog g can carry you a long way in a conversation, you know, as long as the other person's talking. You can you don't have to do anything, you can just sit there going, sho, show, show ghost, gh show gh.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So, like, I mean, I guess like asking for like what that actually means is kind of irrelevant given that it's meant to be filler, but that sounds like just this.
SPEAKER_03Just it's shug. Not show. I know.
SPEAKER_04And it originally means I think it is something like it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But um, it's just sort of it's sort of a Gallic yeah, where Gallic doesn't have a yes. It does have shug. And so when someone's talking to you, you say shug shog, shug. Yeah, I guess. Just to let them know, yeah, I'm listening to you, I'm I'm paying attention to what you're saying. Yeah, and then also you can say it to acknowledge that you heard somebody, like if you call your name down the hall, you can go shug shug. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, yeah, I'm here, you know. Yeah. Um, and then you can use it when somebody didn't exactly say a verb. You can just sort of respond with shug, you know. Yeah, yeah. If they ask you like this thing, sug. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Um and then g e thoch is a little more, it's it's less versatile because it it, you know, we know it is just, it actually means like straight and a bunch of different things. A dog, like just like head directly. Yes, direct. It's it's like direct. So, but when you're hearing people say it in response to other people talking, what they're saying is sort of like just so. Yeah. Yeah, like it's an it's yeah, it's a it's a statement of agreement. Get you know, you're agreeing with the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna sit here and make all the noises. Oh, and also um one I tried to correct myself on. I'm still struggling with correcting myself because the English you know just comes out of my mouth. You can do that in Gaelic too. Isakit. Or it just is. Yeah, I'm a you know or I'm a you knower. And that just having those pauses, like the reason we have them in English, you know, people deride filler phrases, and I do I do understand that it can get a little tiring listening to the same word over and over and over, but they're there for a reason. The other person is trying to think. Yeah, I don't know they're trying to let you know I'm not quite done talking yet, give me a minute so I can come up with more words. So you have these little filler phrases to just fill in the gap while you search for your words. Yeah, and Gaelic has those too. All languages have them, to my knowledge. Yeah. Unless there are languages where it's just polite to sit there in silence while the other person finds their words.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which one that is on a different podcast.
SPEAKER_04But um But yeah, Isak it. You can use that, just stick it in there. And um so now there are there are ways in which English uses so that this won't work, but when you're saying so, that was what I did, you know, this happened, so I did this. Ismar shin. And like that. Yeah, I did say martian, but yeah. Ismar shin, marsh in, and a chuch. Um, but yeah, marshin, marshin, marshin.
SPEAKER_00Get those in your get those in your marshinner. I'm a martianer. Or my sins. Yes, martian. Like my sins.
SPEAKER_04But yes, so yes, so those are that's helpful too. Just the pauses. It is, and you're allowed to pause when you're talking. And one of the things my friend Angus talks about is um he's actually a little frustrated, you a little bit frustrated by the fact that people try to talk fast in Gallic, and he says, you know, the people in Cape Breton when I was growing up, the native speakers, they didn't talk very quickly. You know, you like the the standard one, like the cultural understanding was that we can take our time. You don't have to speak quickly, you can draw it out. Yeah. So, you know, that has changed, but it's okay to be slow and measured and think about what you're going to say. It's okay to pause. It's okay to have the second where you try to recall or where you go, I don't know how to phrase this sentence. I'm gonna I'm gonna just I'm gonna I'm gonna start over and I'm gonna say it a different way. I'm gonna come up with something else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Do try to do that incidentally. Um, you know, if you've got to use the English word like we were talking about, then just drop it in and go, I don't know the word for competent, apparently. Let me go look that up later.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I am gonna look that up later now, because now we need to know.
SPEAKER_04I think the first thing that comes to mind for me is tahpi. Yeah. Everybody probably knows as clever, but it means so much more than clever. It quite literally means like it literally means something like quick or swift. It's a lot of hearty or something, like you're kind of a like a hardy boy, like like he's a a little, it can be like it can be that too. It's got a lot of meanings, actually, and I I recommend you know, like learning all of them besides just clever, because that gives you a bigger range. Yeah, um, but in some, it's certainly in a lot of cases you could use it for competent, I think. Oh, yeah, hi tahpi, I can't tackpi. Well, interesting. He knows what he's doing, he's he's very able, he's very quick, he's he's a quick thinker, he he does things very well. Um that kind of thing. Yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind. There's probably others.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But um, but anyhow, you know, if you so you know, you can throw in the English word, you can just pause to try to remember because you go, I know the word for this. If I sit here long enough, it will come to me.
SPEAKER_00Finally.
SPEAKER_04Or you can try to circumlocute.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Use use your use the powers of your grammar with what language you have. Because I think that's that that's such a like, like we were talking about like how it's like when I learned the relative uh the relative ah, like I was like, oh, I'm I'm gonna be so irritated now because I'm just going to describe everything using this uh, you know, like like because I was like, oh yes, like now my my I can make my Dickensian sentence in in Gaelic as I've always wanted to. What how am I saying try and do the the opening paragraph of two cities?
SPEAKER_03You are quite fixed up.
SPEAKER_04It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, but it was the honestly, it is the best of times, it is the worst of times. That's basically the whole message of the emancipation not the emancipation proclamation, the Gettysburg Address. You're thinking of the Gettysburg Add. There are LinkedIn historians everywhere. We're not here to talk about Lincoln, we're here to talk about Gaelic. If you want Lincoln experts, go somewhere else.
SPEAKER_00Lincoln, accurate history, math and science, you're gonna have to go elsewhere. Yeah, James. Oh my god. On that note.
SPEAKER_04Uh this one goes with the blooper reel.
SPEAKER_00This is that this is that like Instagram content that just gets a man, you know. Oh my god. Well, whatever. Anywho, um, this is what happened. How? I I'll say this is Parimenopause brain, right? They they get like brain fog, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04I don't know what my excuse is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh uh, I uh maybe I just I just I dragged you into this hellscape somebody in a little bit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, you're contagious, is what it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wow, so I'm trying to remember. I'm like, uh, did I the question that led to talking about reading your ability to read prose? What was the original question?
SPEAKER_04The original question, I think I can actually remember this. The original question was how would you rate your level of Gaelic? Yeah. I would say, right, so I would still say that my conversational skills do need work. And this is one of the hardest things to build because you have to find people to talk to in Gaelic. And unfortunately, you kind of have to find people who have better Gallic than you do and convince them to talk to you. Yeah. Because the issue is like, you know, learners' conversation groups, like, I am not in any way knocking that I it's great, it's fantastic, you build community, you can practice together, it's all this good stuff. The only problem is that if everybody has the same level of Gallic, then every then if one of you is making a mistake, the other ones can't really correct it. I mean, sometimes they can because everybody's being at the same level doesn't necessarily know mean everybody knows the same thing. So you can end up with somebody who knows something that the others don't. Um, so you can get corrected, but it's much easier to fall into bad habits because none of you knows quite enough to correct each other. So this is where you have to find fluent people and convince them to talk to you and put up with your stumbling and halting. And that is easier said than done by a significant margin. Now, I've been fortunate in that most the the fluent speakers I've met have all been lovely and very willing to talk to me, which makes a big deal, makes a big difference. But it is true that conversational skills are the hardest to build. Wow, I think, um, just because it requires that.
SPEAKER_00I know and I can interject real quick. Um, I think too, like Thanks. And I'm just doing it anyway. I didn't come out for this, but uh so like it I also think too, like it the other danger is that or the other thing that maybe isn't so helpful is there's a difference between the not being understood by someone at your level or below, right? That's gonna be that's gonna be related to your your each person's level of competence and their array of vocabulary. But when you were speaking with someone who is who is very fluent, whoa, that sounds weird to put a qualifier on that, but fluent or native and fluent, right? Because you've got your lap box and stuff like that. But and they don't understand you, that is 100% about your your inability to say what you need to with some kind of functional clarity, and that is actually really important feedback. Um, so because if it's just a word that you don't know, that is not gonna derail an entire conversation with someone, or if you don't use the genitive in in a particular situation where you should, or or the dative, or things like that, like because their ability to flex within the uh the language and their communication is so much greater. So if you're not being understood, there's like a critical failure that you really will want to work on and need to address. But when it's like at the same level or or lower, if you aren't speaking specifically within a very well-defined range, and if someone's expecting a dative case and you don't say that, or or genitive, if you say a genitive and they've not dealt with genitive and they don't realize like um like what's like ainy and owing are the same thing, they're gonna be completely just thrown the like whiplash out of the conversation. And so you can't practice the genitive then, or you can't practice certain things, and and that is an additional barrier, I guess.
SPEAKER_04That is true, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's um, and also there's the fact, like you said, a fluent or native speaker can, if they're not understanding you, then you know, okay, something is wrong with what I'm saying. But when a fellow learner is not understanding you, you kind of have no way of knowing something the matter with what you said, unless you know for sure. I know it's not a problem with what I said because I am saying the thing exactly as I learned it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um but um but yeah, it's it's much harder to get feedback on your Gaelic as well. So it is important, I would say vital to find people with better Gaelic than you to talk to. And that's important at every level. And then, you know, once you reach fluency, then it's just important to find other fluent speakers, which you probably will have done by that point because you can't reach fluency without fluent speakers to talk to, and just keep talking to them.
SPEAKER_00You know what though?
SPEAKER_04That's because you've got to practice to that point, though.
SPEAKER_00That just furthers my whole like thing that I bang the drum about, where we all need to become as many of us as possible need to become fluent speakers because we become the speakers other people are speaking to. You know, like like the the it's the the existing fluent speaker population can't carry it all. Those of us who are learning, and you know, and it it strengthens the point of how important it is to be a learner as well. Like what we have to offer as learners is to become competent enough in the language. That that we are it you we're not pulling the ladder up behind us, right? Like we are we're helping other people come up the ladder. That is that is we are we may be learners, but we provide a valuable service and also building generations of learners by by following through and and improving our own galaxy. So what where do you think your conversations part of the reason why you know I wanted to do this with you is one because you're not scary to me, and but also like because obviously Delkutch, Galag, Nasha, and the Mishia, right? So like where do you what what do you see as areas you need to work on?
SPEAKER_04I do feel like my like my main issues still building vocabulary, which comes with just you know time and exposure. Reading. Yeah, exposure, just over and over and over. What's this word? What's this word? What's this word? I think there's some like neurological studies about like, yeah, it takes like five times of repetition before you remember a word or something like that. Well, and then how many more times for recall? Yeah, exactly. I think it does probably depend on how much you care about the word. At least for me every word either. Oh, that's true too. You don't have to learn every do you know every word in English? No, you don't. So, you know, I mean, I I'll try you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, we're good. I don't, but but that that's the thing though, because people try to learn every word they encounter, and I'm like, nah, homie, like if I'm never gonna talk about like carbon dioxide, ver well, I might because climate change. Let me pick a different word. If I'm never gonna talk about you know, just breathing.
SPEAKER_04Or just breathing. You know, you might have to talk about oxygen or carbon dioxide. That's like important.
SPEAKER_00What what what are things that uh um plumbing? No There you go. Some special word about plumbing.
SPEAKER_04How about how about well for me it's probably gonna be um what's like the kind of math that starts with a C.
SPEAKER_03The really advanced math that starts with a C. Calculus, thank you.
SPEAKER_04Yes, that. I'm probably never gonna need to talk about calculus, so I don't need Gallic words for that.
SPEAKER_00Right, so I might encounter it, I might read it, I might hear it, and be like, what? But I'm that's not one I'm gonna put a lot of effort towards because clearly we don't be talking about calculus much. I will tell you, did you know calculus? I think the the the word for that, like the word for like plaque, like teeth plaque, is like I think the the the what am I trying to say, like the scientific word or something for a calculus? The only reason why I said is when I was in Korea in 2020, I was in a um I was in a drugstore, I needed to buy like some toothpaste or something, and I have a picture of this actually. Um, me with it. There was a toothpaste and it said anti-calculus. And I was like, what? But this is hilarious to me. That's anti-calculus toothpaste, you know. That is amazing. I love it. For the people who hate math in your life and need like fresh, clean teeth, you know. You can do both. Yeah, and maybe it's a suit-based. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Anyhow, but um to that point. But yes, but yeah, so I would say, you know, vocabulary building, you know. I'm I do find myself running up all the time against words where I go, uh, I don't know how to say this, or phrases, I don't know how to phrase this in Gaelic. Um, it's not so much even like grammatically speaking, I don't know how to phrase it. It's that it's a phrase that I would say in English all the time, but I suddenly try to say it in Gaelic and I go, I don't know if this works, and I'm already off the cliff. Uh somebody catch me. Um and just speed, I guess. Now I know I was just talking about how you don't have to talk fast, but I'm like, I do talk fast though. I don't have a choice. It's the way I was made. And so I so um so just when I'm when I have the time to think about it, I I get my, you know, I get my vocatives and my datives and my genatives, I get them right. But when I'm just going for it, I still struggle with them a fair bit, like getting them in the right place are just like little fiddly grammatical things like that. I struggle with getting them in the right place and then I have to go back and say it again. And that tells me that that's where my limit is, that I'm not I I haven't drilled these so that they just come out of me and I don't know how to say anything else. But I do, but I do usually now I do appreciate this about myself, I do usually recognize I've made a mistake, I need to go back and try to say it again. And the thing that makes me nervous, I'm actually now I'm partly nervous talking to native influence speakers because I feel like I'm like, you know, I'm a little bit like the little kid sister, like hey, hey, can I tell you something? Can I tell you something important? And you've got to stand there go, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Anytime now. Yeah. Also, um, but I I actually find myself a little bit more nervous talking to learners because I don't want to say something wrong and let them run off with it thinking it was right. Yeah. So, you know, I try to watch it with learners. Um I'm like, I will go back and say it I don't care how many times until I get it right, because you're gonna hear it right. Yeah. But anyhow, so that's those are where I would say, like I said, I've found my limits. I I know where the limits are, and I know that I need to train more so I can lift that 150-pound weight. Um this is all entirely metaphorical. I think you can tell I ain't lifting no 150-pound weights anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, yeah, I think I mean that's fair. I think it's, you know, because I I think we can easily be so intimidated when we're talking to other people that we know, like, I mean, well, I guess to that point, how how long have you been studying Gaelic?
SPEAKER_04At this point, um, gosh, when did I start? Like, this is the frustrating thing. I'm like, I don't remember exactly when I started. I think I was 18. So I believe it was in 20 about 2016 or thereabouts. Um, and so I've been studying about 10 years at this point, I think. And um, so I know I like, you know, I'm like, I'm sitting over here like objectively, I've come a long way in a relatively short amount of time. Um, but I can still see like where the weak points are. If that, you know, I'm like, sure, okay, I've got about 10-year-old competency where, you know, yes, you're also kind of running into that's probably not well. I'm my own 10-year-old competency, and you have to remember I was a kid who sat in her room and read books all day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I get you. Same, same, same, same, same, same.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I'm comparing myself to myself when I was a 10-year-old. I'm like, I could probably communicate about that effectively.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, but I think like so when you when you think about though, like, um, do you feel do you do you feel like you have a level of Gallic that you are happy has taken you 10 years to get to if that if if if I'm really wording this in a way that makes sense? Like, like so no, yeah. If it makes sense, answer. If not, I'll clarify. Okay.
SPEAKER_04No, it does make sense, I think. This is always the problem asking, does it make sense? It's like, well, yes, it does. And it doesn't make the sense I meant for it to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but it made a sense anyway. But I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying. And um, so yeah, do you think I'm would I say I'm happy with the Gallic that I have, considering the amount of time it has taken?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so because I tell people, you know, I just started my third year, right? Like, like, and I and I do myself the benefit. I do count it exactly the number of months I've been studying so far. Because I'm like, yes, of course, I I studied it or started in late 2022 with Salmore Oste, but then I took a break. No, is that right, or late 2021? No, it's definitely 2022 because my mom passed away in 2021, that's how I know. So I started in autumn 2022, I did and Cursa Intriguy, and then I had the summer off, obviously, and then I started in Cursa Artish that autumn took took time off in March until March of this year. And I've done other things in between, but for me, that's my study, and so I'm like, no, like I'm this messed up because this is just how long it's taken me, you know what I mean? Where it's like had I done a full four years or whatever, I would have been super pissed that I'm still at this level. So, like, because I'm like, I want to be fluent as quickly as possible, you know. So, like, I think so that's that's where the question comes from. It's like in 10 years, will I look at my galax and be happy with with where it's come?
SPEAKER_04I mean, I can't like you know, I can't answer that for you. But I mean like that's how I'm thinking about so for yourself. Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, for myself. Um I would say that like the answer is simultaneously kind of yes and no. Because I would say that when I look at how much Gallic I actually have, like when I look at what I am able to do with my Gaelic, I am very, very pleased with it. Um when and especially honestly, over the last year, I have I don't know, it was like I crossed some kind of threshold at some point over the last year, and I just started to feel more confident in a lot of different areas, like not just reading, but in a lot of different ways. Um listening, writing, conversation, like all of it started to come just a little bit more naturally to me. Um, but I would say, like, yes, I am happy with it. There is a part of me, and there's always going to be a part of me, I think, that always looks at like I could have done more, probably in the amount of time that I had. I could have done more with the opportunities that I had, and I could be more fluent at this point if I had pushed myself. But I do try to go, okay, but you didn't. So there's no point beating yourself up over stuff that didn't happen. It, you know, whether you were do, you know, whether you did the right thing or the wrong thing, or you could have done more, or you couldn't have done more, or whatever. You didn't. So what have you got at the end of 10 years? You've got a teaching job. You can talk pretty knowledgeably about grammar, about um, about pronunciation. Your pronunciation is very good. You've like you've been told this by people who are not you, so you know your pronunciation's good. Um people who would know what they're talking about. Um you you've won mods, you know, for your singing. You're there are a lot of areas where you are very competent and very capable. And, you know, so that's also why I compare it to like the 10-year-old fluency. It's like, would do you look at a 10-year-old and go, you ought to be able to discourse knowledgeably on the works of Shakespeare at this age. You do not. No, no, no, no, we don't. No, we don't. You're still reminding No, you don't. I mean, you're still reminding 10-year-olds to make their bed every morning because you have to go in there and go, brush their teeth. Brush their teeth, yeah. Just gotta get back in it. But yeah, um so yeah, so it's a simultaneous like yes and no, I guess. There's there's a little bit of regret that I didn't do more, but I do try to look at it like, well, the past is the past, and you've got what you've got, and what you've got is pretty darn good.
SPEAKER_00There's still time. How me be all hast!
SPEAKER_04How me how me lawn be all hasin?
SPEAKER_00Well, you at least have till tomorrow, right? At least have till tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02I can learn another word in that time.
SPEAKER_00Did you not know? Tomorrow never comes, it's always today. So you you know.
SPEAKER_04That's true. That's true. That's the worst thing to tell an ADHD or I think.
SPEAKER_00It's like, well, tomorrow never comes, so it's not my problem. Right? I'm like, well, then I feel no urgency. That's the thing. Like, I need that's why I want to do this immersion care course and stuff like that. Like, and I will say, like, with the thing that happened with my friend or whatever, that puts some things into really as as these events always do, you know what I mean? Um, about like how how fleeting every moment is. Um but I think like I uh with ADHD, yes, I must have the impending fear of something coming or not coming to pass in order to really be moved um enough. And so like I I I'm always looking for those those I am always looking for those things where like and it can't be a few months down the road. Okay, now to be fair, like learning my songs for the mod in October. Yeah, it's not about the mod. It's more like I don't want Lilla to be like, I'm ashamed of you. So like that uh is always looming.
SPEAKER_04I respond extremely well to people possibly being ashamed of me. You're disappointed, yeah. I'm like, I can't disappointed in me. Oh no, please don't be disappointed. No, please don't, please, please, please. So like you know, be angry at me, but don't be disappointed.
SPEAKER_00By the same token, I still have like two like my a put my push to beal set and one other thing left to learn. Granted, it's an easy song, and like push to beal, I can drop it if I have to. I you just I might be too lazy to sing fast enough. I learned this about myself. I just don't know that I care if the dancer can move as slowly as I feel like singing.
SPEAKER_04You need to find a dancer friend and actually sing for them, and maybe that would help. Like if they're like sing faster.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh god, maybe I do need that. Maybe I do need to be like, I will not let you down, dancer friend.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah, no, there's the there's the whole thing of like I can't let somebody down, yeah. Which is you know how we end up doing like too much five days of work in like three hours, like the night before, because it's like, well, I can't let everybody down, so I guess this is getting done.
SPEAKER_00But I can't let myself down. So I do need I do work best when there is when there is someone to whom it matters. Um yeah, yeah, this is some like deep stuff though, because it's like uh um like yeah, yeah. This that that could again, there are other podcasts on which we can discuss our our foundational traumas. This is true. This is probably not the one, but this is probably not the one, which I guess it was gonna come up, but yeah, it was. I honestly this is an important thing to talk about in language learning, though, because there are traumas that there are trauma uh informed responses um to language learning willingness to communicate. There are generational, there are heritage traumas, especially in in the Gaelic community, you know, in the Gaelic-speaking communities. But um I I'll save that for another day. Um I think like I I suppose I should do my like three questions so we can end this in the next hour.
SPEAKER_04That might be a good idea. I I mean I'd love to stay here and chat with you all day. I am getting hungry.
SPEAKER_00So we probably should, you know, begin the process of wrapping up so that you know I'll be a good person and I will, I will, I will, I will not say anything in between, nor add to anything, nor empathize, nor share. I'm just gonna ask these three final questions.
SPEAKER_04I mean, you could empathize at least a little. I'm trying to do it with my face and not my words. Do it silently.
SPEAKER_00Empathize with face and hands. Do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that'll be extra special content for people who watch the video.
SPEAKER_04People who don't watch the video just know that Michelle is very earnestly making empathetic faces at me right now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So the final three questions. Woo! The ones that I that I um want to ask everyone eventually who comes on here and and makes it through two hours and 11 minutes. So question number one. What is one thing that you learned that dramatically changed the way you um uh sorry, hold on, I just screwed things up. That that dramatically changed the way you were learning Gaelic or how you used your Gaelic.
SPEAKER_04Okay, all right. So I'm really glad that you gave me these questions ahead of time so I had time to think about it, because when I first read this question, I said I went, I have no clue, as I always do to what was one thing questions. I go, I don't know. Yeah. And then, you know, five months later I'm coming up with 18 things. So um so I would say that for me one big thing that kind of just sort of reordered my thinking was learning how to think of a Gallic phrase or or Gaelic word as meaning what it means in Gaelic and not what it means not how you translate it into English. And this is tricky because there's a point up until which you kind of can't do this because you just don't have the uh knowledge base available to you, but just sort of as a concrete example of what I'm talking about. Um so we all know the phrase istalium, like most people know ishalium shin. I like that. Um but one day I learned, you know, it's not just istalium and is yarlum. You know, I like that or I prefer that. You can take literally just about any adjective or any noun and stick that in there between the is and the lum in order to convey this is my opinion of this thing. This you're gonna have to tell me more this way to me. Okay, I will tell you more. I am more than happy to tell you more. Yes. So is tol okay, this is tricky because I spell it a slightly different way. You did a ta and I did a t. I did I do a ta and you do a tall. Either one is fine. It's just that um ta T-O-I-G-H means pleasant um or agreeable, and tall, T-O-I-L, means like pleasure or desire or wish.
SPEAKER_00And one is a one is a noun and one is an adjective. I okay.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Yes. So then it's fine because they both fit into the structure the same way and they both make sense, which is how people got confused in the first place about whether it's ta or tol, because when you're saying it, you can't hear the difference, and most people weren't literate. So um, but what's happening there, what you're literally saying, for me, what I'm literally saying is is pleasant with me that. Right. And that with me right there is telling you, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04To me.
SPEAKER_00You have ownership over that's ownership. So like it is yours of it is something of yours too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you can you can think of it that way for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's um it's got this kind of like in my view kind of sense. So You don't just have to use istalum that way. And you don't just have to use is literally means is best with me. That thing. You know, like that thing is is best with me. I I think that that thing is best. In my opinion, that thing is best. You can say is Aving Yum. Is Aving Yum Shin. That's funny to me. That I find like Aving E B H I N N.
SPEAKER_00I'm just let my mind be blown right now for those who can't do my thing.
SPEAKER_04Sit over there. Sit over there and allow your mind to be blown. Yeah. So yeah, it's aving Yum Shin. That's funny to me. And you can, you know, you can say it in like sort of uh like a uh what's what's the word? Sort of a a defensive way almost. Like people are like, I didn't like that movie. Well, eving Yum say. Like I thought it was funny, you know? It was funny to me. Um that's weird to me. You're not saying it is strange, you're saying it's strange to me. Well, it's strange to me that he'd do that, you know. It's it's strange to me that you'd say that. It's straight that that seems strange to me. Yes, I thought I thought it would be. Um but you just like you can stick adjectives in there, you can stick um you can stick nouns in there too. That's where the istal comes from. But you can use that to say, like, in my opinion or in my view, that's what this thing was. Or you can even use it to say like that's what it meant to me almost. Like when um, like if you and your your friends, like, I don't know, your grandparents just say your grandparents had like a big old house or something, and you as kids would like explore it and stuff, you could say Buchasteline. It was a castle to us. Yeah, it like it felt like a castle to us. We knew it wasn't a castle, obviously. We're not saying it was. You could be like um my my friend Fiona when she came from Vancouver Island and she was looking around at what I think of as big trees. She's from the West Coast. They they were not they're not big trees to her. But they, you know, that doesn't say that they're objectively small trees. It just says that they're not big trees to her because she's seen bigger trees. I can say, you know, here in the south, I'm like, okay, it's like around 80 degrees, 82. I think that all the time it's gone. Yes, yes, hache lume. It's not hot to me, you know, or like, or you're you know, like if you're or you know, the other way, like I'm I I was up in Canada and in July, and I swear, like, it was not getting above like 75 degrees. And you know, like I was waking up in the morning, it was like fifth fifty something outside. I was just sitting there shivering, and Fiona's just sitting there in like caprice, barefoot, short sleeves, just staring at me. I'm like, is who are you, me? It's cold to me, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So a thing that I say in Scotland a lot.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Well, it's cold to me, you know. Yeah. So it's um so that is a concrete example of what I'm talking about. That once you understand what the structure is actually saying, you have way more versatility to use it and play with it and and toy with it than if you're stuck thinking of it as is talum means I like it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_04Um you can you can easily fall into the trap of thinking of that as like is is I and ta is like and loom is it, and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's entirely backwards. But if you understand the structure and what it's saying, yeah, you can actually play with it more. And like I said, it's um it's tricky to do this at first because you need kind of a knowledge base under you before you can do this. But as early as possible, try to train yourself to think of words and phrases as meaning literally what they mean.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, this is like the go. Like learning being taught ho to mean who is such a it it I was so angry with literally, what's it janog like fag or whatever? I was so mad when in this most recent module, because I had I had gone to a workshop or no, like some Gallic learning day, like in in Scotland, um, and we were she was trying to have us use call and then sal. And I'm like, I cannot understand, but part of it is because we I was kind of in a thing that was probably too high for me, and I hadn't really learned the grammatical structure of it, so I was trying to use it in the pattern that I was hearing other people use, but I couldn't really wrap my brain around it. But it's because how we are taught to understand what ho as meaning who only and then not really under the the emphasis on she being a your your your phraseology for uh equivalences versus really explaining the the the emphatic nature of if as the fronting for your statement. And and I understand to your point where that is introduced really matters, but I thought it was it was not the issue of when they introduced it, is what they let us believe for so long about the limited nature of this word that it has become fossilized as that and thus almost impossible to break out of. Now, granted, using ho as something other than who is pretty not that common because of the the slightly, well, at least I would say when we think of the equivalent uh grammatical structure for a question like that in English, of whom are you speaking about, you know, or something like that, you know, or of what is she thinking, or I don't know. I'm not can't come up with very good, but it's got that feel to it, you know. Um but like to me it's a real disservice to have us fossilize it as such a a a single-minded grammatical thing when it and that's where we get the Gallic is an idiomatic language thing. Yes and no. It's it's grammatically not, I think, necessarily, but but in practice when you are coming at it from a different language, absolutely. Ah, yes, and yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's oh shh. Um when I um yeah, I I I fully agree with everything you're saying, and um I I yeah, it's it's it is it's a tricky balancing act, I know, as a teacher, because you don't want to overload people with too many things when they're just starting out, but you don't want them, like you said, to go away thinking they've they know what they're saying when they maybe don't, and it's gonna be something that comes up, and it's gonna be something that comes up a lot. Like, you know, you can let people get away with not knowing every single, you know, meaning for the word crown, which has a whole bunch of super specific meanings. It's like you can tell them it's it's like a mast or a post or a poll, it's anything that sticks straight up. Um but it's uh but you know, with something like co can also mean what. Yeah. And it means that a fair bit. Actually, it happens all the time. Oh shoot, you have to let them know. Yeah. It does happen a fair bit. I would say it mostly happens in cases where you wouldn't be able to get confused about whether it was who or what. Uh-huh. That's mostly where it starts to come up. Like, if it would if if you would be confused about whether you're saying who or what, then use J. That's why we have J. That's why it developed. Because we needed to go like we we didn't want to ask, like, who did I make it out of? That's a disturbing sentence. I don't want to say that. I want to say what did I make it out of? Silence of the Lampsy. Exactly. So, you know, you don't want to do that. Um, also, just to this point, tah. We were talking about tahbi earlier. Literally means cleverness, quickness, agility. So when you're thanking someone in Gaelic, when you're saying tahb laht, you're saying like cleverness with you, quickness with you, ability with you. You're blessing them in response for this thing that they've just done for you. So you're there's no actual word for thank you anywhere in there. I mean, you can also say tangvo or tang or you know, whatever you like there. Tang is actually thanks. Yeah. But tahbalat doesn't actually mean thank you in the way we think of it as meaning. And, you know, that's just another thing to like wrap your head around real quick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's like an exchange. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04It's like you've done a thing for me, so now I'm yeah, so now I am sort of like wishing, you know, like we must always be even Stevens.
SPEAKER_00Nobody can ever have a debt that needs to be repaid. And then you respond with, well, it's your life. Yeah, yeah. You do. But now we're all happy. That's what I I we think of shadow bands, like, you do you. Almost a little bit. It's kind of funny.
SPEAKER_04You know, like whatever. Alright, yeah, yeah. It's almost like saying whatever, but like in a nice way. Like, you know, don't, you know. Whatever. It's your life, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you do you. So awesome. Well, that was actually really good. I'm glad you did go away and think about it. So I don't I'm like, like, I'm really like, it seems so obvious now. But um, yeah, I'm I'm gonna start working that into things. This is very cool.
SPEAKER_03Do, do, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00All right, so to to question number two, like a solid 20 minutes later. You said you were gonna speak. That was so good. Um, so did you ever have a time when you felt like you wanted to give up or you were super frustrated? And how did you overcome that?
SPEAKER_04I had to go away and think about this one too, because I would say that my answer is I never wanted to give up. What I will say is that I was afraid that I would. Um, because okay, so here's the thing. You know, talked a little bit about the ADHD, or what is most likely ADHD. There's a lot of trouble with staying power. There's a lot of trouble with follow-through. There's a lot of trouble with, you know, staying motivated to continue doing something once the novelty's worn off. And I already knew that I had this in myself, that I, you know, I started hobbies and I started projects and I started ideas, and I had, you know, always, always with the big ideas and the big projects that never got finished because once the novelty wore off, then I didn't want to do it anymore. And sometimes it was because I hit a bump or a snag, or sometimes it was just literally, this is going real well. I no longer have any interest in doing it. Bye-bye. I don't feel challenged. I don't feel challenged or something. Like, you know, it doesn't, it's not new anymore. I don't know. There's a lot of different reasons. But um, so I was afraid that would happen with when I first started learning Gallic. And that was part of why I went to learngallic.scot and I was like, let me try online for a little bit, you know, just like by myself. Let me see if I can maintain some kind of enthusiasm for this before I go dropping a whole bunch of money on a course and then find out, oh, I didn't actually like doing this at all. You know, I don't have the staying power for it. Yeah. Um, I don't love it enough to keep going. And, you know, when I talk about it this way, I, you know, I try to say like, I am aware realistically of what actually happened. But what it felt like was like the language as a living entity just kind of reached out and grabbed me and went, There you are, come on. And I went, What? And um so like the second I learned words, I was going, This, this, like, not only does this do I enjoy this, it feels right. I I don't know how to explain it any other way. It felt right to be saying these words. And um, so I didn't end up giving up. I I enjoyed it enough to keep going. I mean, I was, you know, I was learning off and on by myself. I didn't have any sort of like regular practice plan or anything going for um for a couple of years, but I kept going back to it, and I kept reworking on stuff I'd already done, and I kept looking at new things, and I was going, I am learning something here, and I keep coming back to it. Let me find a course because I don't understand what the heck these prepositions are doing and these pronouns are doing, and I don't know why it's lacht and orst and acket and root, and this is nonsense, is what this is. And um so so I went and I, you know, started a course, and I do think that there's something about the accountability of a course that will keep you going even when you don't really want to. It's like, well, at least even if I'm not, you know, doing any sort of work throughout the week, there's a class in the middle of it that I'm gonna go to, so I'm gonna get some exposure. You're not gonna reach fluency that way, but you are gonna get something. And um, but anyhow, I so I wouldn't say that at any point I wanted to give up, but I will say that I was afraid that I would, and so I've tried to examine like why didn't I this time? Yeah. Because I I've I've done it since and I'd done it before. So I was like, what was it about this thing that held on to me? And I think part of it is how multifaceted it became for me. Like, it's it first of all, I've made really good friends through it, like my best friend in the entire world. I would not have met had I not gotten into Gaelic. I would not have met so many lovely, wonderful people like you, Michelle. Hi, had I not gotten into Gallic. Um it got into my music, you know. I was already doing music, I was already singing, so now I was like, I love these songs, I love this language, I love singing in this language and in this style. So there it was in there, and I was writing, so I started putting it in. I was like, some of my characters speak Gaelic now, why not? And so it started ending up in my writing as well, and it's sort of this. I'm like, so part of it is that it just kind of got its tentacles in everywhere, and you know, that's a very creepy mental image, but sweet and lovely tentacles got them in like every thing. But you know, it got it got into every aspect of my life to the point where I kind of couldn't get rid of it. And I couldn't stop learning, and I couldn't stop paying attention. And I also think there was something to once I crossed a threshold of going, I'm never going to stop learning now, am I? Like this is always going to be part of my life. It's always gonna keep, I'm always gonna keep coming back to it. That was in a weird way, it kind of took the pressure off. I felt like, okay, it'll catch me. Like, I don't have to, if I let go of it, I'm not gonna lose it forever, and I'm never gonna go, I'm not gonna go like what happened to that thing that I was doing 10 years ago, you know? It's it's still there. Yeah, yeah, that I loved so much. Where did it go? It's still there. I'm it's still part of me and my life. I'm still coming back to it. And um and also I would say that trying to make it part of things that I already loved helped a lot with keeping the love for the language itself alive.
SPEAKER_00You made it a living language for yourself.
SPEAKER_04Yes, exactly. And this is something that um this is something new that I've had to think about with um like, you know, with becoming a teacher, I I have felt there there is a risk that, like, okay, it doesn't become fun anymore. It's a job. And that can change the way you interact with things. So um so I'm trying now to sort of distinguish between Gaelic for work and Gaelic for fun. Like, keep doing Gallic in fun ways that I'm not doing for somebody else because it's a job and I need to get paid. I'm doing it because it interests me, and this is something that I'm into. And I mean, you know, what I'm into is not necessarily going to be what you're into. Like, I'm into the songs, I'm into telling stories. I like sitting with a, you know, with something and with a voice recording and listening back to it, and listening back to it, and listening back to it, and transcribing what I think I'm hearing and listening back to it. That is fun for me. That might not be fun for you. But it's fun for me. That's fun for you too. Hooray! Yeah um, but yeah, so what I would say is like make it fun. It's it's the same thing as um I to me, it's kind of the same thing. You know, you don't have to have ADHD to struggle with losing interest in something after the novelty's worn off. To a certain extent, we all do struggle with this. It's limerence.
SPEAKER_00Persistence is is much more difficult, though. It's it's much harder to persist. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Yes, exactly. It's not that everybody doesn't have trouble with this, it's that ADHDers have more trouble with it. But you know, it's the same reason people will get a puppy, and the puppy's real fun when it's cute and young and tiny, but how you know you have to stay interested in the dog once it's all grown up, because they're not gonna be cute little tiny puppies forever.
SPEAKER_00I'm just gonna say, like, what a what a banging analogy though, because like to that point, it's like when you've got a dog, because I'm thinking about my peppy, my cat, you know. Of course. When you when you have a pet or God help you, a child, um, like you if you're if you're a good human being, right? You are now invested in the life of that thing for the life of it, right? Like you you are you have to be all in. Um, you know, things happen here and there, and sometimes, you know, you might you might not get to you might not get to play with pepper as much because I had to go out and do something, or you know, if when I was working, if I had to leave or whatever, I'd be gone for eight hours, you know. Like these things happen, but you always have to come back home. You always have to come back to take care of it. And, you know, there's this this the discourse around Gaelic right now is about Gallic is a living language, Gaelic is alive. And so I think that if you're gonna be the person that gets its sweet little tentacles and do or whatever, right? Like, like there is this thing of like you you can step away every now and then because you need to do different different things, but you if you are going to learn uh an indigenous and minority language, you also I don't know, I I think you do have some responsibility in in helping keep life in it, you know, keeping it alive.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, I think I think so. I think so. You have to come home and and take care of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every now and then. Yeah. However, you know, whatever your job is. Like imagine think of it as a great big, huge, enormous pet that none of us can take care of solely by ourselves. Yes, like that, you know, but everybody's kind of got a job.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So go go do your job. Whatever your job is, might not be my job. Your job might be to do a podcast. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed it might be your job to do a podcast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, you you you know, you get my point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I yeah. Awesome. Very good. Okay, yeah. That was I think that was really interesting. Um, and I think there's there's a lot for me to think about there as well. Um but I will I will hold myself back from um expounding upon that. Tell me later. Yeah. Tell me later.
SPEAKER_04Tell me, tell me, expound at length.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, all right. Third and final question. What is your Gaelic why? Um, as in why you continue, not why you started. We already covered that sagal. Um, but um, as I say, I think the more interesting uh question is not why did you start, but why do you keep learning or why do you continue in Gaelic? So what is your Gaelic why?
SPEAKER_04And I think I have to like kind of come back to the answer I gave earlier and say that at some point I crossed the threshold where I realized I'm not going to stop. And like so, like this is not a very satisfying answer, but it's kind of the true answer that to me now I go, What else could I possibly do? Like who Who is Mary Treywick if she's not also Mad in Kiryevic? Like I'm I'm kind of there's kind of two me's at this point. And you know, like are they integrated? They're integrated, they're definitely very integrated. They're they're more I would say they're basically the same person, it's just two different names. But um, but basically the same why did I say basically? I have a twin and she speaks Gallic. But um anyway. But you know, who am I without Gallic as part of my identity at this point? And so I would say that's kind of the big thing for me, I think, that at this point it's just such a huge, huge part of my life that I can't let go of it. And it you know, and also to talk about it, you know, it has given me so much. Like, if I think about it that way. And I, you know, it's like it's you know, a language, of course, is not a living entity, but the the people and the culture and the commun I don't know. I mean, I don't know. But you know, for all intents and purposes, it is not alive.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's an intangible thing, but it's it is an intangible thing.
SPEAKER_04But the people in the communities that it comes from absolutely are, and they have given me so much, like, you know, all together. So I'm sitting here going, like you said, the very least I can do is carry it forward and keep doing, you know, take taking care of Clifford, the big red dog. You know, it's you know, so much has come to me because of this language. So the least I can do is give back, but also it's just so much a part of my life. And maybe, you know, if you're looking for a why, then give yourself a why, I guess. Like, you know, try to find one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, you know, it's you say, you know, you've so it's been about 10 years for you. I mean, right now we're talking about almost more than a third of your life. So there's gonna be a tipping point for you at which you've had Gallic um for more than half your life. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. And I've already had it for my entire adult life at this point. Like, so it's yeah, so I think that was another big thing that it kind of happened to me during my kind of not exactly my formative years, because I think those are more like early childhood, but like your formative adult years, like when you're discovering who you are as an adult and what you want to be. This fell on me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Dragged me in with it, and I went, Oh, apparently this is who I am now. So, um, but yeah, so I'm I I, you know, it's easier said than done, probably, and it probably won't happen on command either, but try to make it part of who you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I mean, in order for it to be with me half my life, I'm gonna have to live till at least 80.
SPEAKER_04So please do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm gonna guess I just want to look hot when I'm 80, but I have to start looking hot now in order for that to happen too. So anyway. Yeah. Well, I think I mean, I think that's that's really, you know, I I I think that's a really meaningful answer though. I think it's sometimes good to just have the opportunity to reconnect with with that question though, because I think sometimes in the in the learning phases and then frustration phases and the times when life interrupts and we we stop doing something, we have to go back to it, or this or this or that, or maybe it does feel like something we have to do, something not what we want to re just kind of remembering why we wanted to do something to begin with. And also checking in and seeing if that if that is still applicable, because maybe it's not, you know, that that is valid too, but it's that is always valid, you know, like whatever happens has you know, it has happened.
SPEAKER_04You don't have to beat yourself up over it, but you know, just kind of and I am I yeah, I agree. And I I'm I'm really glad actually that you asked me that question because it kind of made me you know, it is true. Everybody asks, like, why did you start? But I've never actually been asked why do you keep going? And I had to kind of think about it for a while, like, why do I keep going? Why did I keep going? Yeah, and you know, also thinking about no, I never got, I never wanted to give up. Why didn't I? Yeah, yeah. Because I've given up on objectively easier things before.
SPEAKER_00I'm not like fantastic at crochet or knitting or uh embroidery. Squeaking crochet and knitting.
SPEAKER_04Anything to do with textiles, my hands just I don't know what it is. My sister, great.
SPEAKER_00Me, uh same, same, same. I'm like, um, yeah, it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. Um but like absolutely well, and I think like what what I think is really important because you know there are people who who do stop, right? And I think like I don't I don't want to lose those people out of you don't have to lose somebody because they stop like doing the thing you're doing, obviously. Because I think like if you're you're such a value added person, like like come over here too. Let's like enjoy all the things together. So like I don't obviously we don't want any attrition, you know. But yes, obviously but it's like things happen and whatever, but if but I think if we keep checking in with our why before things get overwhelming or they get too hard, or especially when things feel hard, like you know, you can have your why for continuing, or you can have your why for for giving up, and um sometimes it's just maybe good to think about which one is stronger or which one you want to win. You know?
SPEAKER_04I this is in in some ways I think of some ways I think of courage as just there's no such thing as courage exactly. It's just what are you more afraid of? Oh yeah. And I think yeah, and I think my I I realized I was like, I am more afraid of not speaking this language than I am of numbers or irregular verbs or the genitive or infinity.
SPEAKER_00Infinity really freaks me out, man. Infinity just hurts my brain, infinite space.
SPEAKER_04I try not to think about infinity. Infinitives were quite hard enough, thank you. I don't I'm not sure I have a handle on them yet. I don't if I can to get a handle on the infinitives, do not ask me about infinity. In any language. No. Um but um but yeah, so I think and you know, I don't mean to say that there weren't things I didn't get frustrated with. Because there were, you know, things like numbers and the genitive and and um and uh there was another one I named now I can't remember it. Irregular verbs and regular verbs. All sorts of things, you know, the things most people get frustrated with, and you know, sometimes I did have to back off and go if I keep trying to force this, it's not gonna be fun anymore, and then I'm really not gonna want to do anything. Yeah. But you like it's like, okay, so go do with the language what you love to do with the language. Yeah. You know, and like come back to this thing when you feel more ready for it. Yeah. It's okay, you know, but like try to go reconnect with why you love the language in the first place before trying to force yourself through something you don't enjoy, because it's gonna be easier to get through the thing you don't enjoy if you remember there is, you know, there's light at the end of the time. Yeah, I get I get a reward for this. Yeah. I get to, you know, I get to keep speaking this beautiful language.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, with beautiful people, obviously.
SPEAKER_04Well, obviously. I mean, that goes without saying. Well, I was just gonna say, I mean, I probably shouldn't let it go without saying, but it does go without saying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, indeed, indeed. Um, so in in the interest of not having this be an infinite episode, um uh so what are things that you're doing, or if if you offer like, you know, lessons or you work at a school or you know, all of those things, how can people find you? What do you do? Is this the part where I plug? It is.
SPEAKER_04Do the plug-away, my dear. Okay, alrighty. Um, so what I do in my day-to-day is I work with um Explore Gallic, which is my friends Fiona Smith and Angus McLeod. And what they did was they built a not exactly a course. They don't, it wasn't designed to be a course, it was designed to fill in the gaps that courses tend to leave. Um, you know, explain the things that nobody explained to you before. And um, so we run eight-week sessions in the fall, the winter, and the spring. We take off the summer because we tried to do summer too, and then quickly realized in a year that uh Fiona and Angus went insane. So we're not doing that to them again. They got better, but um I wasn't teaching at the time. But um, but so we work with if I put things in the chat, will you be able to retrieve them later, Michelle? Find out. So you can we will find out. If you can't, then I will just tell you again. Um, but so Explore Gallic um is what it's called. And we're we're off for the summer right now. We're coming up to another session that's gonna start in the last week of September. And we do we do song classes, we do um um, I've been Angus and I have been reading The Hobbit for people.
SPEAKER_00In English, let alone Gaelic. No.
SPEAKER_04And Angus is doing well where he reads Treasure Island as well. Um, we do um uh Fiona does a translation class for Gaelic to English and for English to Gaelic, and I do a couple classes where there's one where I I've been talking about just the the connecting words between language between sentences. So your favorite, the relative, and also the dependent as well, and just how to work with those and what the difference is between them. And also um I'm doing one where this this is this is my favorite one. We um I make a video of myself just doing something around the house, just some basic ordinary household task. And then I re-watch the video and I write up like a little script for myself to read. And it's just saying things like, you know, oh, here I am making the bed. I'm taking the sheets off the bed, I'm putting new sheets on the bed, like going through all of the actions and talking about them, trying to get in the the different uh um different tenses and so on. And I also try to be silly with it because I know you like silly. Yeah. And you know, I try to like say like the silly things that pop in my head. And I find that one really useful for building my vocabulary and just going like, wait a minute, how do you say folding a sheet? I don't know how to say folding or sheet. I better go look that up. Yeah. And then I and then when I'm in the class, I sort of I play the video and I read the script for people so they can watch what's happening on the screen and hear me saying the words, and they can try to say the words along with me. Yeah, and that's you know, kind of immersion on easy mode, I guess. Anyhow, so that's what we do. Um uh we're working on getting a website up. It's been something that's been in the works like every single summer. It's like this summer we're gonna get a website up, and then like other things happen over the summer, and then it's you know, well, we're back to teaching, there's no time. So, for right now, if you want to find us, Nikki Polson at Shaw.ca. That is Fiona's mom and also our administrator, our like she registers everybody, she makes the class schedules, she puts up the recordings, she runs um the Rizuku page, she does basically everything that Angus and Fiona and I don't do. We just come in and teach.
SPEAKER_00Somebody send Nikki if someone's looking for this.
SPEAKER_04N-I-C-K-I-E.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Nikki Polson. Nikki Polson at Shaw.ca.
SPEAKER_04Shaw.ca. Yeah. And you can ask about Explore Gallic there, and she'll be happy to send you, you know, further information. Um, I also am going to be teaching again, I believe, with Shlia Nangail, who are a they're based in the Pacific Northwest in in Seattle. Um and they do a course every like from fall to spring that's called um Zero to Gallic. And it starts in October. I'm gonna be teaching level two. Um, and level two is sort of I would call it like advanced beginner to lower intermediate, is what I would call level two. Um and then I'm also you can just you know reach out to me and see whether I'm available for you know one-on-one tutoring. I'm I'm putting my work email into the chat, not my personal. This is the email you you email me with if you want to, you know, if you want to talk to me for work reasons.
SPEAKER_00Um, you should not.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I fully expect actually most of the people who will see this are people who probably have both of them already, but like just in case you never know when you go virally, Michelle.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say this is your viral moment, please.
SPEAKER_04This is my viral moment. Yes. So, you know, I'm careful about what I'm putting out there. Relatively speaking. Yeah. And then um, but anyway, yeah, it you know, I may or may not have time in my schedule for one-on-one tutoring, but I probably can at least point you in a good direction. Um, or you know, if you just have a question about Gaelic, I'm happy to answer it. Um but anyhow, so that is where people can find me. Those are my plugs for myself, I guess. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um and and do you teach Gaelic song as well, or just do you just teach language?
SPEAKER_04If at the moment I just teach language, but if somebody wanted Gaelic song lessons, I would be happy to pivot to that. I'm not I'm not opposed to it. It's just nobody's ever asked me to teach like specifically Gallic song. Maybe people will. I do the maybe people will. I do the um I do the song classes with Angus and Fiona, and we sort of we we do kind of go over Gallic um song styles there, but because it's a group class, we can't have the students singing because it's Zoom. I should mention that. Explore Gallic, like everything I'm doing here is online. Like totally 100% online. And because it's Zoom, you can't really have the students singing all at once because of the lag and the no. Um, so we're not I I don't talk quite as much about like vocal technique uh in those sorts of classes. I'm talking more about just the meaning of the song and the cultural context and um the rhyme scheme and how Gaelic song is put together. But I do also teach singing. So, you know, for one-on-one, it might be possible to do something online to teach Gaelic song as well. If that was something somebody wanted, like a focus on song with a focus on singing, I could do that. Cool. But um, that's that's me. That's all my stuff right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'll make sure I put it in a consumable way for everyone so that you will get flooded flooded with messages.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Awesome. Maybe flooded is a bit much. I could, but I could stand a slow but steady stream, you know, just one of those nice little trickles.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough, fair enough. Okay, yeah. Don't everybody pile on at once.
SPEAKER_04Oh gosh. Yeah. Anyhow.
SPEAKER_00All right, well, thank you. This uh clearly I thought this was fun. I hope you did too. I did, I had a great time. Good, awesome. Okay, I haven't figured out how to um close these things off yet, but um, I'm sure I'll figure out a normal way to do it in the future. But anyways, um yeah, thanks so much for chatting with me. And um, I guess like hopefully again in the future.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm. Love to have me back anytime. This was fun. I really enjoyed it. I hope you got some good, like usable material out of it. I guess I did.
SPEAKER_00There's impossible not to.
SPEAKER_04So okay. Aww.
SPEAKER_00Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that. I know it's super long. Um, but um yeah, if you've got any feedback on the podcast episode, the interview, the guest, if you'd like to be a guest, if you want to recommend a guest, please reach out to me. Uh info at Michelle Learns Gallic.com or on Instagram at Michelle Loves Gallic. Um and I guess just yeah, let me know what you think. Um, I hope you got a lot out of that. I mean, I certainly did. I absolutely enjoyed myself, thought it was uh a fantastic conversation, so much was shared, though I was uber nervous about the Gallic. Um, it seemed to go okay, so I'm happy about that. Um, but yeah, uh I hope you've enjoyed it. If you've got any feedback, let me know and I'll let you go here. Uh let's get better together.