What Is A Victoria’s Secret Model Casting

I sit down with Hannah, freelance model, producer, and creative director to unpack what it’s really like to make it through a massive Victoria’s Secret open casting call and still walk away with more questions than answers. We talk candidly about nerves, branding, agency power, and how to protect yourself while you chase big fashion goals. 

• how the Victoria’s Secret open casting worked from application to in-person stage 
• what the Houston mall setup felt like on the ground 
• why background checks, measurements, and height standards still shape runway outcomes 
• the difference between supportive model energy and panel pressure 
• how “authenticity” gets limited when cameras and PR are involved 
• what the post-runway confusion suggests about callbacks and marketing 
• why many agencies prioritize younger talent and what that means for safety 
• practical mindset shifts for rejection, networking, and building your own brand 

People mentioned: https://www.instagram.com/hannitchka?igsh=MXA4dTY1OTJ3enBpNw==

Make sure to follow @thatsthevpodcast on all platforms for more fashion content and a big thank you to our sponsor, JAG Premier Advertising Agency
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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Hannah

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Hi everyone, welcome back to That's the V. Today I am with Hannah U, freelance model and creative director, producer. All the things I feel like you've done so much. And today's topic is I want to say, like, it's like what was it like being in the Victoria Secret casting? Yes. Uh, but also and I love that you reached out to me to talk about this, but also touch base on like different things that happen in the industry and what you got from it and all the things. Yeah. So so to start off with, I'll like let you introduce yourself, tell a little bit more about what you do, and then your experience and how you got into it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you nailed it pretty much on the head. I'm a freelance model, I work in production, I've done art direction, creative direction, and also been on the casting director side. So I've been a little bit on both ends in front of the camera and behind the camera, which I love. Yeah. Because you get to learn a lot. Yeah, you have so much experience. So I feel like you also got to see like what it's like from both ends, which is amazing. And with the Victoria's Secret casting call, I feel like I learned so much more because it was on a scale that I actually haven't really dabbled into quite yet. Um, everything that I've done as of late has been locally based in El Paso, and this was more on a national scale, right? They had the TV crew, it was huge. Like I kept seeing things about it and in like billboards and like all the PR you can imagine. All over social media. Everyone was posting about it. And so even when they first announced it, everyone was kind of speculating, you know what, this is a little bit different from the format they've done before because it's gonna be in a mall. Yeah, and it's an open casting call, normally which is crazy

Why The Open Casting Felt Different

SPEAKER_02 2:05

for a brand as big as Victoria's Secret. I that's what made me feel like wait, like how are they doing this now and why? And I definitely had those questions too, but I was like, you know what? I feel like every opportunity is a great opportunity, especially in the fashion world. And so it was one random afternoon, I think it was like two days after they posted it, that I finally decided, you know what, my hair's hit like laying a type of way that I like, my makeup looks good. I'll just take my quick feeling like it. My little intro video, and I sent it in, but not really expecting getting a response because as we mentioned, it's on a grand scale. I kind of understand what the look Victoria Secret is going for, and I understand where I'm at in the modeling industry and where my strengths are at. Yeah. So it was really just for fun of like, you know what, we don't have anything to lose. Yeah. Um, and when it goes back to like the legitimacy of like if Victoria Secret has done this before, they have done casting calls in this format in 2007 and 2009. I don't know if you knew about that. Okay, yeah. I actually had no idea. So I love that we get to learn. Yes. Um I did my research, very, very nice. Um, and they televised both as well, and they had the winner come out and walk in the show. So almost like 20 years ago. Oh, yeah, that's crazy. I was like, you know what? This makes sense from a marketing standpoint, even on their end for the brand, because they're trying to rebuild so many things for this new Air Victory Secret. I feel like maybe there's something more to this than just a PR stunt. Yeah. So um it looked like there was about 100,000 girls that applied. Yeah. Um, it was only open for US citizens. So I mean, imagine if it was worldwide. If they had opened that, that would have been crazy. That's what was crazy to me because I remember seeing one specific, like, real post um of like the guy who's now doing like the managing side of things for I don't know, it's PR marketing, but I know they were like interviewing him, and he said something like that specifically, like, there's been like a hundred thousand applicants, but we want to see more. And I'm like, wait, what? Like so many how how do you even go through that? So that's what freaked me out was like, how, like, what is the purpose of this? But and all the people, like different backgrounds and everything. Um, so when I found that out, I was like, Well, I feel like I'm definitely not gonna get in. And you're like, there's way too many people. And it kind of feels almost like maybe they're just throwing out numbers and they already have some girls chosen. So when I got my acceptance email, I remember I woke up, I woke up my baby and my husband. Like, wait, can you see this too? Like, am I dreaming? I just get the email, congratulations, and I was like, no way, like wow, that is crazy. And they had the four different locations. It was um Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, and Chicago. Yes. Um, and two days per location, two time slots per day. So I think that comes out to what 16 casting calls total. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're you're good. Um, and so I was looking more at the social media posts at this time because lots of people were also posting that they got in, and people were commenting, well, it feels like everybody's getting that, you know, congratulations email. This is a little bit weird too.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

And it seems like a lot of them are influencers because a lot of the girls that were posting about it had two million followers, three million followers, had that background. Um, and in my head, I was like, I barely have 600 followers. You're like, um, how did I do this? I don't think it's all influencers. Yeah. Um, and I remember I just so happened to catch this. Um, one of the IMG scouts who I did see in person in Houston had commented on one of those videos in response. And he said, No, it's not everybody. Um, we only chose about 150 girls per time slot.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

So out of the 100,000 applicants, it was only about 2,500, something like that, that actually made it to that, you know, next round. Yeah. It wasn't the final round, which kind of confused everybody. Um, the I don't know what the final round would look like to this day, to be honest. But I kind of know who got chosen. So we'll get into that. But um, that was already like, huh, like I'm feeling like this is a little bit weird still, but at the same time, the numbers are making a little bit more sense that maybe there's something more to this. But I don't know. For me, I also and correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing that it was like girls that got selected to be part of the in-person casting, but then I also would see open casting, like there was uh models that could still cast even if they hadn't already casted virtually. Do you know if it was only the ones that were like pre-selected, or were there other models that had like showed up that day because they they saw the casting? So um they specifically required you to pass a background check after you got selected. Okay. Um, this was just to confirm, you know, that you're not a criminal. It's for um employment purposes that they did that really. Okay. Um, and so you had to complete it within 24 hours. So some girls did show up to the casting that even in fact got pre-selected, but they weren't allowed to walk because they didn't pass the background check for safety purposes or whatever. Wow. Um, I know that, and I I don't remember if it happened in Miami, I think so, but they did invite a girl from the crowd on stage. And with everything else that happened, I feel like that was honestly for the cameras, but that's just speculation. I don't have specifically for that question, I'm not sure it was kind of heard. Yeah, it sounds like there was all definitely like a lot of PR stunts around it. Yeah. Uh especially with also the like guest models that were part of the like casting crew. Um, I know like Gigi was part of it. Who was your it was Ashley Graham. Okay, yes, very cool. But anyway, continue because I I I really want to know more about the whole experience. So I chose Houston because um honestly, with casting calls like this, I recommend spending as little money as possible because it's not guaranteed. Yeah, and so I drove with my brother. Okay, well, um, and got a cheap motel, and it was literally like I'm just here for the day of the casting. Yeah, so not wasting any time. Yes, exactly. Um, so we got there the night before, and then the next day um I got ready and I went. And I had seen already, you know, videos from the Miami casting hall in Los Angeles, so I knew what to expect, yeah, which helped a lot. I didn't really feel nervous. You were more prepared in that sense of like, okay, there's the stage in the mall, like you have a war step. And um, what I loved right away is the energy from the other models there. That was definitely unique for me because I feel like for casting calls when it comes to other runway shows or photo shoots, yeah, it's everyone's kind of quiet into themselves because everyone's hoping that they get in. Yeah, and this was the opposite. Every girl that I had spoken to and interacted with, they were all like girls, girls hyping each other up. We were all very excited, all a little bit surprised that we were even there. You know what I mean? Like it's Victoria's secret. Yeah, like what a dream. Yes, exactly. So I just I love that energy, and that was really uplifting, honestly. It was great to see. Um, and the I made like a little group, you know, the girls that around me, we we were friends the whole way, yeah. Um, and then the staff as well. The staff was great. Now when I refer to staff, I'm not referring to the judging panel, that's a different situation. Um, but everyone else who was there, the photographers, the camera people, um, and even the people that guided you through step-by-step, they were great as well. So that was really nice. Yeah, no, that's always great to hear because sometimes I mean these experiences can be so intimidating. Yeah, so having people who are part of like the production, the staff be welcoming, I feel like makes such a huge difference. Absolutely. So then

Getting Selected And Getting To Houston

SPEAKER_02 9:40

you get there and you get like you make your group of friends, and like how long was it from the moment you got there until like you got onto the stage? It was from two to six. I was number 37 in the group, something like that. And I got on stage, I want to say about 5:30. So it was a really long wait time. Yeah, we waited in line about half an hour to almost an hour before we actually started the rest of the process. And then we had to do some stuff backstage, was which was like our comp cards, getting our measurements, speaking with some of the IMG scouts. Okay, and that was another thing. I saw the guy who had made the comment, and already I kind of knew based on that interaction that my chances were kind of pouring, you know, little by little. Okay, okay. Um, and I kind of want to touch base on that super quick because I think it's important for aspiring models to be aware of, or if you're a seasoned model, something to be reminded of. Um, and the first thing that I knew going into this is it's a runway show, yeah. And I'm five foot seven. Okay. So I'm not ideal runway height, and there's a reason why that exists. Um, and so I was like, you know what, I don't have the height, but I'm gonna bring it on with my personality and my energy compensate. Um, and then in the meantime, since you know, I mentioned I've been on the casting director side, I understand it's nothing personal. They already have in mind what they're looking for at the casting. Um, and I kind of felt like, you know what, it's kind of surprising that I got in because I feel like I have more of that girl next door, commercial vibe, better suited for photography. Exactly. And they had my measurements and my height as well. So it's not like they didn't know when I got there. Do you think, sorry to interrupt you real quick, but do you think uh amongst the other girls that you saw, was everyone kind of the same height, or did you see like everyone was very like different? A little bit of both, but for the most part, everyone was at least five, nine and above. Yeah. Okay, I see. Um, and those were the ones that were kind of getting the most eyes from the IMG scouts because they were kind of, I think they were using that opportunity where they already had in mind who would work for the specific fashion show. But we have the ladies here, we have models here. Why not see if they're suited to get signed otherwise?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Um, and so I just noticed that he was very particular with who he would engage with and look at. And you know, I'm standing there like hoping at like pushing the hair. Like I'm like, no, I'm sure, but yeah, personality is someone who's six. But look at me. And it felt like he was almost trying not to look at me. Like we would often be looking in the same direction, and it was right overhead. Okay, and you can't take that personally, to be honest. And you know what? Now that you mentioned that, it's it's you have to go into the world of castings and modeling with that mindset. I feel like it's so great that you already had that, like you already like you already know your forte and um like not expecting everything, but also like just being realistic. Uh, because I feel like sometimes, especially coming from like El Paso, Texas, everyone's very like nice and kind, and like I feel like there's a lot of like sugar coating. I'm like, don't worry, everything's gonna like work out. But in real world, like modeling world, I feel like it's brutal. Like people like casting directors will straight up tell you no or not look at you at all. Like you're saying, I feel like they also have this experience in the industry where they see models every single day and they already know who their clients are and exactly who needs to be booked or can be booked 100%. Yeah, you can't take it personally. And even if you're not meant for one space, you're absolutely meant for another space. That's what fashion is all about. And um, I had kind of dabbled into that when I modeled in Moscow, where it was very much like no sugar coating, like you mentioned, it was very to the point. Yeah, and so kind of jumping back into that after like almost four years of a completely different vibe and energy, I was a little bit like, oh yeah, okay, you know what? This is actually what it's like. Like, okay, you know, we're back at the cave, like outside of El Paso and like real life. Because it's it's I feel like it is a little bit, it does throw you off a bit. I feel like even in New York, when I first started doing castings, it is such a weird feeling, like becoming friends with other models during the line and waiting, but then not being selected. And then I mean, but there's like no heart feelings, it's like sometimes you'll make it, sometimes you won't. And it's just depending on the job and the runway and the vision of these creative directors, designers, etc. And I encourage to try it every single time because you never know, and it's always a learning experience. I love doing casting calls just in general because it allows me to practice my walk, my energy, yeah, and see what's kind of on trend or you know, selling marketing. Seeing either, like also uh the other models, like how what they're doing, and even networking for me. Castings have helped me just land other jobs because of people that I've met throughout the way, and not even just in as a model, but as a photographer, like networking. Um, and I can imagine even yourself as a producer where you can see even talent that you might want to work with. Which I absolutely did. I was like, girl, I might be reaching out to you. I got you, I'll be your agent. Like, you never know. Um, anyway, back on track. But um, yeah, so so they take us backstage, they get our measurements, they ask you for more questions, they ask specifically what we would want the judges to know before we get on stage and are interviewed by them directly. I said, you know, I'm a mom, that's been kind of an interesting challenge in my life, quote unquote, with modeling and career building and having a child who's under one. Um, and so they were taking that, but then what I noticed, and this is from my personal standpoint, and other Slavic models who applied, okay, was they asked me, you know, where are you from? And I said, Well, I'm an American who grew up in Russia and I never tried to make it political. I don't care to make it political. But the truth is I left because of the political situation. So as soon as I mentioned that, they were like, Oh, thank you so much, and kind of dismissed me to the next point. And that happened not just backstage, but also on stage when the judges asked me that same question. Okay. So even that I was like, okay, like I understand also, like, we're televising this. I've been on TV, I understand the rules, the PR-friendly standpoint, but I also feel like I'm not really able to share about myself. Um, because once we hit that point, it's like, oof, well, that's a scary topic, you know. And like people get freaked out, especially if they're not familiar with the topic and what actually happened, or I feel like they're just scared of not asking the right questions, especially if it's televised and it's at the end of the day political. Um, they don't want to be like on the red zone of like being banned or something. I understand, you know, with the branding specifically for Victoria's Secret, it doesn't have a place there. And that

Backstage Reality Checks On Height

SPEAKER_02 16:40

is something I definitely learned in that moment of like, okay, that might be my answer, but maybe there's a different way I could communicate that. Yeah. And I'm sure, you know, living in a border city, there's so many people who have these crazy stories and these crazy backgrounds of resilience and um rich history. And I feel like we should have the space to talk about it, but it's how we talk about it, so that's no longer scary. Um, so that's something I've definitely been thinking about ever since. I'm like, okay, how do we share that so that it is friend-friendly, quote unquote, to get into that room and stay and be able to share about yourself truthfully.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

And I really love that you bring this topic on because recently, at the end of the day, I feel like um I've been reading a lot on fashion is political. Like at the end of the day, it's politics influence what people are wearing, and want to or not, even if you want to be like oblivious to it, it influences absolutely everything. Like the fashion and politics world are are connected. But I do feel like Victoria's Secret is like the glam side of things and like the like they definitely have another, I want to say like more positive personality where they want to stay away from that. But I also feel like they can only do that for so long because it's gonna like politics are being more and more highlighted in in the fashion world. And I think and I love that you say that because I do agree, fashion is culture and it's always changing or setting new ideas and thought processes and philosophies through fashion, which is amazing. And with the brand that promotes authenticity, yeah, I didn't feel like I had the space to be authentic, and that's unfortunate. Yeah, you know, and I I know I wasn't the only one, so that was too bad. And um, but I kept going and you know, we had the comp card photos, and what I noticed was the difference between when they asked those questions versus just doing everything. Yeah, it was like night and day, very positive, back to it, high energy. Oh, you're doing amazing, these photos are great, you know. Photographers are complimenting, so I got back into my yay, okay. Yeah, yeah, like I got this. It's just like a little bump, it's yeah. Um, and then we make our way to the backstage at this point. I want to say, even while we're waiting in line, they told us, ladies, stay until 6 p.m. Because they will most likely ask you for interviews. And that verbiage I think was very specific for what happened next.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

So it's around 5 30 at this point. I get on stage. The nerves only hit me, truthfully, right as I was getting on. I was telling the guy who was always happens. Like, I'm like, it's fine, it's fine. And then you're like right there, it's like, ah exactly. Like, wait, I don't think I'm actually running. Like, I forgot how to post. Even the guy who was queuing, like, went to walk. I he was like, How are you feeling? I'm like, amazing. I do this all the time. I love runway. Yeah, and then he's like, All right, go. And I'm like, just kidding, so I want to say, because of the nerves, even though I'm typically someone who isn't nervous, you know, I've I've done this enough times. I know what it looks like, and I know how it feels like, yeah, it just got to me. And so my walk was not as great as I wanted it to be. Staff was like, You did amazing. I'm like, I couldn't. I know how, yeah, exactly. Um, but I don't know, just seeing everybody and the I don't know. Um, and then when it came to the interview portion, um, so they had Adam, who's a creative director for Victoria's Secret, they had Ashley Graham, the model, um, guest model, and then they had the head um like casting director for IMG. So that was the panel. Um, and because I was so flustered by my walk, by the time I got to the interviews, I was like a little bit like a deer in the headlights, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

And to prep, I had noticed that girls had been posting on social media that they were getting the most deep questions, like, what does this era, Victoria's Seeker, mean to you? And so I was practicing my shower, you know, before I'm gonna have to. You're like, I'm ready. It almost feels like pageant, like exactly. That's what I saw, and that's from what you're telling me right now. It really feels almost like a pageant. And I've never done pageants, um, but I I felt like you know what, I have the most beautiful answers and they'll eat it up. And instead, they asked me, What did I do that morning? Oh wow, and that just completely oh my gosh, like I don't know. That caught me off guard because yeah, you were ready for like a very like specific type of question. And so what did I do that morning? Well, I felt like Jennifer Lawrence at the Oscars, you know. I ate five blueberries and a cheese stick, didn't wear makeup because it's a casting call, put on my clothes, and I went, you know. But that's not something you talk about. Yeah, so they don't want to hear that. So I'm trying to like figure out an answer in the moment, and I come up with some random like me and my brother got breakfast, aka he got in and out, and I didn't eat, but they don't even know. Yeah, yeah, you know, like all this stuff. And in my head, I'm like, oh my god, like stop talking. Like, this is horrible. You're like going on and on. And they're just looking at me like smiles, you know, like wow, okay. And so then I wrap it up, and well, they ask me, you know, is your brother your biggest critic? No, my brothers are so supportive, but of course I'm like, yes, you know, they tease me all the time. I'm like, oh my god, like this is so bad. And they're like, Well, tell us about yourself. And because of my walk and my first answer, I had practiced this question, I had practiced the answer. But of course, I'm like, you know what? I was born in Ohio. I've lived in Russia and uh I've been based in El Paso for the past four years. They're like, okay, well, why just why El Paso? What I should have said was, my mom grew up here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I went back to the political situation. And I saw in that moment Ashley Graham's face literally purses, and she goes, and Adam goes, Oh, well, thank you so much. And I was dismissed again. And I was just like, oh my God, okay. Yeah. I completely butchered that opportunity. And I should have known better. I honestly maybe shouldn't have even prepped so much because that put me in a headspace of like this is the expectation. And if I had been more easygoing, maybe that would have been easier for that question. You know what I mean? And also, like, let's be honest, if I had a better morning routine and taking care of myself, I would have had a better answer too. But you know what? At the end of the day, it feels like what you're saying that I mean, this casting and Victoria's Secret, they're supposed to be like authentic and they're trying to be more like that. But like the fact that you're feeling this way to be part of this, it also I feel like it almost loses that whole point. Like it's um, I'm I'm I'm sure you're not the only one who it's also like, of course, it's gonna be nerf-wracking. Like, and of course, you're not gonna have like you don't want to be just like a casual answer, you want to have like the right answer. But at the end of the day, it's like, what is even the right answer if you can to be your true self, if you can talk about like what you went through or like anything political, or I mean, whatever the case is, it's just so like contradicting at the end of the day, but um, but it's also I feel like everyone's going through that headspace in that moment, especially, I mean, so many models from around the country in one specific space. And you're you're honestly you're putting a lot into it, you know, you're paying to get there, you're putting the time scheduling and all of that for this opportunity. It's I was thinking about it and I was like, it's very human to be nervous about something you care about.

The Walk Nerves And Interview Curveballs

SPEAKER_02 24:05

And that's of course, yeah. Um, but I wish that they had the space to once again make it a little bit more easygoing. And it's also like when it comes to modeling, I understand things have shifted in terms of marketing. It's a lot more interviews with the girls, a lot more, let's see, your personality. But what are they looking for in those answers that decides if they make it to the next round? You know what I mean? I see. Um, and so I think they were just looking for someone who was able to be comfortable and confident with whatever they got, and I just was not that person that moment. Um, so I left that stage feeling very like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. But um, it was around 5 45 at this point. So I have 15 minutes until it's six o'clock. We haven't received any further information. And keep in mind, every girl who had gone up, the only finale response that they got was thank you so much. Okay. And we didn't have any other like nobody else knew what to expect next. And normally with casting calls like that, and I'm sure you've seen this, um, they'll give you the answer as you're walking, you know, they'll be like yes or no, swipe to left or right, um, or they'll be like, you'll receive an email, or if you don't receive any word at all, yeah, some sort of like instructions afterwards. And we just didn't get that only, you know, wait till 6 p.m. There might be a chance for interviews. And thank you so much. So we're all kind of just like a little bit confused, but I noticed some girls getting food. They told us we could use the restroom. Um, and they had a photo booth about two feet away from backstage area. It's open, security sees you, you have your access cards. Okay. And so I saw a line of the girls already, and I was like, you know what? I'm assuming because it's such a good production, they'll announce something or hey ladies, let's come back, or you know, anything. Yeah. Um rather than just letting us disperse and nothing else, right? So I'm like, okay, they do whatever they want now.

unknown 25:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

So I was like, you know what? I'll just I'll use the photo booth. I'm excited for that part. I get that done. Um, and it's almost six o'clock, but there's still a little bit of time. So I go back and security stops me, and they're like, you can't go back. So I show up my little key card and I'm like, uh, I just walked. I'm like, I'm part of them. What'd you give me? And um he was like, Well, um, if they want you back, they'll let you know. But in the meantime, just wait. And I'm like, so like just stand right here in the middle of the mall outside of here, like that's weird. If I had to wait, I I could wait on the bench we were sitting on. Yeah, so I'm an assertive person. I I can't leave without an answer. So I'm like, I'm gonna wait around until I figure out at least something. Yeah. And while I'm waiting there, I double check with him again. I'm like, just to make sure, because I'm kind of just standing here and this is really awkward. Yeah, of course. Like, are you saying confused? Yeah. And then he's like, Yep. So I see other models are getting the same response. And so I told them, Hey, I'm looking for an answer. If you want, you can hang with me. So there's like a group of us at this point. Some girls will come back. They're like, We want answers. And um, this one security lady who had um complimented my walk actually while I was waiting in line for the photo booth. She sees us look a little bit lost. Yeah, so she comes up and she's like, Hey, what's going on? And was like, Well, they told us to wait till six because of you know, blah, blah, blah. Um, but they're not giving us any answers and they're not letting us back in. So we're all confused.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

So she guided us to the front area where all the guests were seated in front of the runway, and they let us back in that way. Okay. And like a movie I watch as two girls. The first girl who's walking was the very first girl who went out on that runway when the casting call process started, and second girl I didn't see at all. I'm assuming she was towards the end when I was already out. Um, they were walking again. Oh, wow. And not only that, they were choreographing through the cameras, like, walk, walk, walk. And let's repeat, walk, walk, walk. Okay. And I'm seeing this, and I'm like, I don't like, I think those are the final round girls. I think they've been chosen. Yeah. And we're witnessing that, but nobody's saying anything. What is going on? And so we're all talking to each other and we're like, this feels really weird. I don't know how I feel about how I did or if there's a chance. And so then there's these girls that are like being filmed walking over and over. So it wasn't that, like, they already done that. Um, and sure enough, they finish, the judges leave, and security tells everyone else to leave. And we're like, that's weird. Yeah. Yeah. And so once again, that was not enough for me to see and be like, okay, like, I guess that's it. I'm already home now. Like, no. So, like, I need answers. Exactly. So I go to the backstage again, um, or the area. Um, and I see the judges, they're taking selfies with these two girls. IMG is, you know, we'll see you later. And the body language is very much like, I don't have to be a genius. I think these are the final round contestants because they're not doing this with anybody else. Um, and so then on the way out, I actually like passed by them. So the first girl, I was like, Hey, like, was that your callback? Callback? She's like, I don't know what that was. Oh wow. Like that even they knew. It's like, okay. And then a girl next to her was like, no, no, we'll get our emails. And in my head, I'm like, I if we're getting our emails, they're gonna be a no. Yeah, you know, yeah. And then the second girl, I walk up to her, same thing, hey, was that your callback? And she goes, Yes, thank you so much. Pats me on the head, great to see you. And I'm like, Oh, okay, yeah. But so from the models that you spoke to, um, like the second one's the one that confirmed that it was like a callback. Basically, and I don't want to like confirm, confirm, because I don't know if maybe I were doing my question weird, or you know what I mean? Because I was like, is that your callback, callback? And I worry that maybe she was like, Oh, yeah, that was my first round callback. You know what I mean? But then I was speaking to a friend that I had made at that casting call, and she had her boyfriend sitting in the audience, and she said that she watched or that he saw her receive a text message calling her backstage that basically implied that she was selected to come back. Okay. Um, so there was that. And then I had seen also on social media um from the Miami casting that someone had posted of the same format, the girls doing the typical runway back to back.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Um, with the caption of like the callback, call back, you know what I mean, like final round chosen. And then the week that we all received a rejection emails, um, more videos were surfacing like that, where there would be the group of girls backstage, and then one girl would be called out and then in front of the judges in a more casual format. Okay, if that makes sense. So I was like, they were selected there. Now, when it goes back to the PR speculations, and I do think it kind of ties into the whole like it was a marketing scheme, is one the verbiage of how everything was kind of walked through. Yeah. Because now these, especially if you're doing this for the first time, you know, they imply that they really don't want girls with experience. Yeah, I remember seeing like it doesn't matter like who you are or experience, we just want like personality kind of thing. Yes. So you see that and you're hopeful. You know, you did the whole casting call, everyone's hyping you up, so you're gonna post about it because you're excited. Yeah, of course. And so everyone was posting about it. Victoria's Secret gets all of that free marketing and um they wait about a month to finally announce, you know, sorry, yeah, we're not considering moving. Yeah, like once the hype is down, and maybe for them to not get us like bad credit, because I do feel like how you're saying like you're not the only one that's feeling the certain way, and of course, they're not gonna give you an answer right away if they don't want that negative feedback in the moment. So it was just I I remember we were all like, huh, that is so strange. And then even

Waiting For Answers And Spotting Callbacks

SPEAKER_02 31:35

the girls that were starting to post that they had been selected, which I don't know if maybe there was an agreement or once again speculation, but I've noticed also that people only posted their experience of being chosen around the time that people are posting that they didn't get in. And um, it was not who I expected, also. And what I mean by that is when you think of Victoria's Secret Angel, you're thinking Adriana Lima, you're thinking Irima, you know, like you're thinking like these like specific looks. And I saw girls like that at the casting who I was like, objectively, you shouldn't made it. Yeah, you know, they they were the six foot tall blonde goddesses with the petite little noses and full lips. Like um, one girl, in fact, I was like, she's absolutely gonna make it, like, no questions asked. And even uh the panel, they were like, Um, you we were trying to figure out who you were because you look like one of our models, like they told her that. Okay, and she didn't make it to that next round.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Um, and then meanwhile, the girls that they had chosen, and I'm speaking from objective, if I were their casting director, which I'm not, yeah, I would not have expected. There were a lot of younger models with a more simple face. Um, and I'm not even like, I don't know, it was just surprising. But this is kind of the direction. I think that like they were going for a specific younger look. Like, do you think this is heading towards maybe Victoria's Secret becoming sort of like an agency themselves and they're having like a younger like group of girls who can possibly like make it to be Adriana Lima at some point? Uh, like that's one of my thoughts that goes through my head from what you're telling me, or also um, I don't know, like if they're trying to keep that like more authentic look to them as a brand. That's a good point. And I could see that. Um, I would say probably yes, because a lot of their OG models are a little bit older now. Um, a lot of them are retiring. Yeah. And um, I don't see why they wouldn't push to have a lot of new faces, especially younger faces, to completely rebrand. So I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Um, I guess when it comes to that, normally they kind of specify those details though. Pre-casting, hey, we're looking for this kind of look or whatever. Um, and so to have it be such an open casting, I felt a little bit like they're just trying to get that content for the cameras, you know. I mean, it definitely felt that way. I do think it's it was definitely at the end of the day a huge PR stunt. Um, because when you're doing a casting, no matter the casting, you as a casting director, you're looking for a specific look. But for them to make it so open, they were definitely taking advantage of the brand name, making it like at a mall, like just like what? Like I can't imagine like how many people were like on their site, constantly getting like these views, and and at the end of the day, I feel like wow, yeah, you got all this attention in such a like relatively small time period, but then what? You know, I feel like then what does that mean for the brand and the models who got selected? I also wonder if they had like a big following on social media. Some of them I saw it was no experience, no background, small social media following. A few of them, maybe a couple thousand followers, but nothing. The influencers did not get chosen. Okay. That's that's very interesting because it's like, are they like, I don't want to say this word, but I'm gonna say it, but like grooming them, you know, like kind of like making them their their own persona for the brand. And I wanted to talk about that because after that happened, I was like kind of reframing in my mind what do I want to do with modeling? You know, this was kind of my experience coming back to a larger scale, yeah, kind of the standard that I was first ever exposed to. And being an older model who's also been behind the camera, well, what does that look like? And so I started looking into other agencies. I was always told maybe you should try the Asian market because this and that. Yeah. So I was looking at Korean agencies and then I tried other ones, and I noticed that all on the fine print at the very top of the application page, they specify height, at least five foot eight, and then they also specify age. We're only seeking models who are 18 to 25. Oh wow. And I think that's very on purpose. And I'm someone who loves studying neuroscience and psychology, if we can get into that for a second. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, but as we all know, when you're 25, your frontal lobe is formed, right? You have better decision-making skills, you can be in a situation and realize that you know what, I'm actually not happy with this, or maybe or like more aware of the like danger that there might exist. I feel like when you're under 25, you're like, yes to everything, like I don't care. And then all of a sudden life becomes real. Exactly. Yeah. And you're you're still figuring out your identity and your place in the world.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

And um, with experience and with confidence, you start becoming a little bit more assertive, a little bit more confident. You have no problem speaking up for yourself. When you're a model, that's actually a problem, right? You if you're signed with an agency, you go on set and all of a sudden you're complaining because it's too cold and everyone else is wearing a coat, then they're gonna get back to your agent and say, She was really difficult to work with, even though you're asking for a basic human need, right? Yeah, sadly. And I say all this and I love fashion, so it doesn't remove my love of fashion, but it's something to be very aware of, especially if you're a younger model who's starting out 16, 17, 18. Um, when you're 18, you feel like you have everything figured out. And I was that model because when I started, I was 18 and I had no experience. So I was very naive. So when they told me, hey, your portfolio costs this much to put together, I was like, absolutely. And I'm like, that makes sense. Sure. Take my money. So I went to that agency, we got that done. I went to a second agency. This was all in Moscow, and they're like, we can't use these photos. Oh well. And I'm like, Well, they just said that this would sell me. Um, and you're kind of open to trying out a bunch of different new things, and if they're selling you this idea of this will make you famous or have a glamorous lifestyle, or if you're someone who's already interested in that, that's an easy yes. But it's not necessarily a compliment if you get the gig at that age and you don't know who you are yet. Yeah. Because they see you as almost a mannequin that they can really put their branding onto, right? Yeah, like and like really maneuver and make whoever they want. Yeah. And so more models are coming out, especially ones that have been signed, because I do think there's a difference between signed models and independent models. Yes. Um, who have said that they would never let their children model, that they feel like they've outgrown it because of this and this and that. And it's something we need to talk about because it's not safe.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

And um, when I saw that it was all 18-year-olds

Age Limits Agency Power And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_02 38:40

with zero background experience who got chosen for the Victoria's Secret casting call, I was like, this makes sense unfortunately, because you get to really project that new branding, whatever they have for this new era of Victoria's Secret, quote unquote, they can really push that onto them.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Whereas I'm 24, uh, like I haven't had actually something to say about how I'm feeling and what my thoughts are on anything. Exactly. That's so interesting and so crazy, but I will also add to like the part of agencies and agents. Um, I know there's like some really horrible experiences out there, unfortunately, but I feel like the more social media grows and the more we're aware, even for models that are younger. Uh, I feel like it's important to also talk about like you don't have to go through like that such difficulty to be like a model or be in the industry. Like, I feel like there is models out there that will definitely like do whatever it takes to stand out and be out there and be like, you know, modeling for Chanel or whatnot. But then I've also met models who are like with Chanel, with like these bigger brands who have good agencies and agents that actually care for them. And I think it's just a matter of creating that awareness of like there's not just IMG. And although they are a well-known agency, there's better and smaller agencies that are working to get like real jobs, and not necessarily, yes, the dream is to work for like to model, I'm gonna say Chanel again, but um I also feel like there's so many more better paid jobs where you don't necessarily have to have that um like bad agency experience. And I think it's also like breaking that uh like mental state of models believing that like, well, this is how it is, so I I'm just gonna like suck through it and like make it work. And and I feel like times are really changing. Yes. Like, and and they as they should, like as they should, and as more that we talk about these experiences, uh like the more I hope more models are just aware, just aware and like ask the the questions and demand those answers from the agents and agencies. Uh, but but like I love that you're experiencing this and also like wanting to share because I feel like a lot of people are not us well who were part of like the Victoria's Secret casting specifically, but also like any other experiences with other agencies, um, especially coming from like a smaller town and wanting to do something bigger for like just bigger brands in general. And I I remember even in in Moscow, the first masterclass that I took, they told us if you're a model, you have to be likable. And they don't mean kind or polite, they mean you know, the the nice positive energy that's very like uplifting the set. Um, but also you listen to whatever they expect of you, yeah, if that makes sense. But at the same time, I've noticed that a lot of models who have made this a name for themselves, especially in the 90s, they have no problem standing up for themselves or even exactly yes, yeah. A lot of the models who are up on top, they're using their platform to also in the moment, um, because some videos are posted or whatever, yeah. Um, you'll watch them where um they'll call out security or call out the team. Yeah, um, even with the I don't remember which recent Victoria's Secret show, but one of the ones from the last few years, um, Alex Kutsan. Oh, yes, yes, yes, she was meant to wear this giant robe and Adam told her, Hey, I want you to like kind of take it off halfway through the runway. And she was like, I'm strong and I'm capable to do anything, but I'll be honest with you, if I do that, I look like I'm struggling. So I'm gonna keep it on. So even like those little things, if you're someone who doesn't have a name for yourself, you might be scared to say that, but it's time to start speaking that way. Yeah, for sure. And and I love that it's true, like what you're saying on the like iconic models that that we know, like the Naomi Campbells and all of these iconic models. Um, I feel like it's the fact that they were not scared of being told no. And you're gonna get no's all the time, but it's like what you do with it that makes you stand out. Um, so like I wanna wrap up with that note because it's just like don't don't be scared of people like shutting you down. Uh, and like if they do, then that's not your place. Like, there's so many other brands and businesses out there, and I'm gonna like say it again with social media. Like, it's such a powerful platform that you can really use and make a brand out of yourself and really like become your own model, your own person, but like whatever business you want to do in regards to the creative industry. Like, I feel like you don't have to just be a model, like you do so many other things. And I feel like, like, likewise, I I love modeling, but also I love like the behind the scenes behind the camera part of it, like producing, creating, and just also making people aware of what it is to be in this industry, but making like a brand out of ourselves without getting like those negative experiences, just like creating this awareness at the end of it. Rejection is protection, yeah. Yeah, no, at the end, it's uh what it's like a quote I live by where it's like uh rejection is only redirection. I love that so it's never about like, oh my gosh, they shut me down. They said no, it's actually no, this is like not your path, and you're meant to be somewhere better, bigger for you. Yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing

Rejection As Redirection And Goodbye

SPEAKER_02 45:05

your story and yapping with me today. I feel like it got into like really deep conversation in the pod. So I'm excited to to share it out with everyone and and just create conversation. Yes, you know, like more models need to talk about this and and their experiences. So thank you for your courage on talking about it as well and sharing. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And that's the V. Bye. Bye. Thank you for tuning in. Make sure to follow at That's the V podcast on all platforms for more fashion content. And a big thank you to our sponsor, Jag Premier Advertising Agency. If you're looking to get on platforms like Hulu or Netflix, check out the link in the description.