How Human Design Helped Us Stop Taking Each Other's Feelings Personally | Natalie Peace | EP210

In this episode, Chad and April sit down with human design coach Natalie Pearce, the same coach who helped them navigate a pivotal turning point in their own relationship. Natalie breaks down what human design actually is, why it's less a belief system and more an invitation to experiment, and how understanding your own wiring (and your partner's) can completely change the way you show up for each other. Then things get personal: Natalie pulls up Chad and April's actual charts live, on camera, and walks through the real differences driving some of their most repeated dynamics, from busyness and pressure to communication styles and self-worth.

If you've ever felt like your partner just doesn't get you, or wondered why the same argument keeps resurfacing in a slightly different form, this episode offers a new lens, and a lot of relief.

In this interview, you'll learn:

•       What human design is and why it's best approached as an experiment, not a belief system

•       Why an emotional partner asking a non-emotional partner to "meet them emotionally" almost never works, and what to do instead

•       How to tell the difference between your true nature (self) and the conditioning you've absorbed from others (not self)

•       Why waiting 24 hours (or even 7 days) before responding to a big emotional decision can change everything

•       How couples who feel like they're "speaking different languages" can finally understand why

•       Why explaining your nature to your partner isn't making excuses, it's making room for understanding

•       How undefined energy centers cause you to amplify other people's emotions, stress, or mental noise as if it were your own

•       Why some people are wired to be naturally busy and energized by it, while others burn out trying to keep up

•       What it means to have a defined heart center versus an undefined one, and how that shapes self-worth in a relationship

•       Why opposites attract in relationships, and what it takes to make that dynamic work long term instead of losing yourself in it

•       How to recognize when you're trying to prove yourself to your partner, and why that pattern often goes unnoticed

•       What it looks like to take radical accountability for your nature instead of using it as an excuse

You are allowed to choose yourself. You are allowed to stop playing small. The life you are grieving may be the very thing making room for the one you actually belong in.

With Love and Safety,

Chad & April ❤️

What We Discuss:

0:00 — Why an emotional person can never get what they need from a non-emotional partner

0:25 — Welcome to Safe to Love | Introducing Natalie Pearce and human design

1:25 — What human design actually is (and the mystical origin story behind it)

2:31 — The four basic human design types, explained simply

6:33 — How often couples actually bring human design into their relationship work

7:18 — Is there a human design version of "these signs shouldn't date"?

9:02 — Why human design is an invitation to experiment, not a religion

10:14 — The biggest shift Natalie made once she started living by her own design

11:39 — Self vs. not self: the framework that changes how you see your own reactions

16:10 — The man who stared at the exit sign at his own wedding

17:08 — How Natalie actually works with couples, not by telling them who to be

20:14 — Why the emotional person's needs feel unmet, and why that's not their partner's fault

23:37 — "It's not an excuse, it's an explanation": reframing nature instead of blaming it

28:07 — Why the undefined partner feels the emotional wave even stronger than the emotional one

29:14 — Chad's undefined head and mind: why his thoughts feel so loud, and why most of it isn't even his

35:23 — Natalie reads Chad and April's charts live for the first time

38:17 — April's struggle channel and why Chad can never fully "fix" it

39:31 — Defined root vs. undefined root: who actually owns the stress in the room

43:42 — The channel of busyness and charisma: why Chad can't stop filling his calendar

50:00 — Defined throat vs. undefined throat: why April's voice changes depending on who's in the room

53:29 — Defined heart vs. undefined heart: where self-worth actually comes from

1:01:56 — Learning to tell the difference between your own voice and someone else's inside your head

1:04:41 — Role models explained: April the Opportunist and Chad the Hermit

1:13:15 — Natalie's services, where to find her, and her grief support work

1:16:16 — Final advice: stop buying your own bullshit

 Follow Natalie on FB and IG @newnormal.bydesign 

Email: peaceofmindcoach@startmail.com 

Phone: 801-726-4619 

Website  

Transcript

— Why an emotional person can never get what they need from a non-emotional partner

SPEAKER_01 0:00

One of the core differences that's with people, one person will be emotionally defined, which means they are naturally emotional. And another person, because we're attracted to things that we're not, the other person is not emotional, which means that they're a receiver of emotional energy and they don't admit it. And so what often happens is the emotional person wants the non-emotional person to meet them in an emotional way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

And it doesn't work.

— Welcome to Safe to Love | Introducing Natalie Pearce and human design

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Welcome to Safe to Love. We are on a mission to help the world believe in love again and give you the courage to find it. So excited to introduce our next guest. We are going to be talking today about human design and how this episode came about is one of our very first episodes. Our really good friends Adam and Caitlin came on and talked about how when they were at a crossroads in their relationship and they were fighting and disagreeing that really learning each other's human designs was super helpful for their relationship. And so then Chad and I decided that it might be helpful for our relationship. So we started getting human design coaching sessions from Natalie. And so we are going to have Natalie on today to talk about human design and how it can help improve your relationship. So welcome, Natalie. Thank you so much for coming today. So tell us about first of all, what is the human design? For those of people who don't know, uh, maybe I'm sure most people have heard of it by now, but I don't know how many people actually understand that.

— What human design actually is (and the mystical origin story behind it)

SPEAKER_01 1:25

There are some people that don't know about it yet, that still it hasn't crossed their path. But human design is literally the science of differentiation. So it is a science. Um, it did come about in a with the mystical experience, which I feel is most new knowledge comes through some sort of it mystical experience. Um so the the founder Ra Uruhu had an eight-day mystical experience where he literally was implanted with the body of knowledge. And then he proceeded for the rest of his life to lay it out in a teachable scientific way. Awesome. So it's a very deep body of knowledge. But if you encounter your design or you learn about the basics of your design, it's actually fairly simple to pick up in a short amount of time. Awesome. To understand the framework of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

And can I just say, man, if you're never heard of human design, but a girl that you're dating has ever asked you your birth time and birthplace?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

She knows your human design.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Now you'll understand why after watching this episode.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Yeah. It's very important to make sure your human designs go together.

— The four basic human design types, explained simply

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Um, so tell us about what are the basic human designs. There's the generator, there's the manifestor, kind of let's just give a little rundown.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Okay, so there's four basic types. Um, the mass amount of people. So most of the population on this planet are generators or manifesting generators. Those are both within the same type. And it has to do with your aura. So it has to do with the way that your energy field literally functions in the world. And there's no changing it. Like that, you're born with that aura, you die with that aura, and it functions a particular way. So the bulk of humanity, about 66 to 70 percent, are generators or manifesting generators. And then the next group is projectors, which are around 20%. That I don't know the exact current statistics, but projectors are the next largest group, and they have a focused and penetrating aura. And then the next group are manifestors that are about 9% of the population. Their aura is closed and repelling, and then there's a very small sliver, about 1%, that are reflectors. I didn't know it was only 1%. Yeah, or maybe a little more, maybe slightly more than that. Um more people are being born into some of the other types. So I think that's brought what brought the um generator down to about 66%. Um, so the reflectors have no centers that are defined. And so they sample everybody else's aura. They're like a thermometer or barometer for the environment or the community that they're in. If we could run this whole planet on design, things would flow much differently, but we don't. Most of humans, I mean, if you if you guys consider who in your life knows their design and lives by their design, it's going to be a smaller percentage of people that literally understand that and use it to run their life. And it's extremely mechanic. Well, it's not even just extremely mechanical. It's a mechanical system. It's similar to a car or vehicle because these are our vehicles. These bodies are our spaceships or vehicles that we run around in. We're objects moving through space. A lot of times people don't think about how this planet that we're on is hurtling through space. That means we're hurtling through space. We're never stationary, even if we're sitting here. We're sitting here in these chairs or in this couch and flying through space. And human design becomes the way that you understand that you navigate your life. And life is always navigated through decision making. So the core of human design really lets you know how to make decisions. And it gives you two things the inner authority, so that you adjust your decision making and meet much less resistance in your life when you know what your inner authority is, and then understand that there's a strategy that's attached to the type. So the way your aura functions, and I didn't mention that generators and manifesting generators have an open and enveloping aura, and they have this powerful sacromotor that's defined in them, that is their life force that they use in their life to do things, to build things that that's what makes a generator. Most generators don't have the awareness that they don't have to do anything that isn't satisfying. Yeah. So most of them end up frustrated because they're enslaved. You know, generators are very often enslaved to their job, to their family, to their ideas, those different types of things. So generators are easy to enslave. And then understanding that, which I know the two of you have shifted in your life, to where out, no, I want to do things that are satisfying to me. And so so your life has adjusted since you've started to

— How often couples actually bring human design into their relationship work

SPEAKER_01 6:33

live that way.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Can you just kind of share about how how often is it that you actually work with couples who want to bring human design into the relationship rather than just somebody looking at themselves individually?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

So I would say not often enough, but it but it requires both. It does require the individual in a relationship to understand themselves and start living according to the way that they're designed to operate. But then when I'm working with couples, it's really helping two people understand that you're very different from each other. Everyone is different. And if you can honor, if a couple can honor the difference, but the differences between the two of them, their relationship will flow much more smoothly.

— Is there a human design version of "these signs shouldn't date"?

unknown 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Is there a type of, like I know with astrology, there's like some signs that are like, oh, those two signs should never be together. Is there like certain human designs that like won't work as well together? Like two manifestors might not work as well together.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Or actually, the ideal is type with type. It's a it's an inter-type relationship that ends up being because the ores function very differently. Second to that is generators and projectors work well together, as long as the generator allows the projector to advise them, which is what the projector is designed to do. And the projector understands that they're not bossing them around all the time. They're there to advise them, and the generator gets to choose. And also in a projector-generator relationship, projectors really need to learn to ask their generators, not tell. Because those of us that are generators, we don't like to be told. We would like to be asked so we can respond.

unknown 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Gives us an opportunity to respond. That makes a lot of sense. I am a generator and I don't like to be told for sure. I thought that was just me being stubborn, but now I know. It's just designed. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

As well as being emotionally defined when it comes to the different authorities. Those that are emotionally defined, we need to feel about it before we choose. Yeah. So we need to be given some time.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

It's part of where my resistance and skepticism to a lot of things come in. Is there's a lot of people come in and say, This is the thing, now you have to accept it. And I really love, you know, we were kind of talking about before the show that human design is more about inviting you to experiment.

— Why human design is an invitation to experiment, not a religion

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Right. And I'm somebody that I don't like being told what to do or think at all. But I do love to try on new ideas and see how they fit, especially if somebody approaches them that way. I think that's I think that's a more effective way overall for most things. But I know for me very much, if somebody comes at me and it's like, why don't you try this song? Why don't you try this idea and see how it fits? Like that's how I've in my life come from a hardcore slayer worshipping atheist to somebody that prays and has a spared animal and all sorts of stuff. Um and so I really love that approach that you that you bring into it.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Well, I I do want to put out there that human design isn't a it's not a religion of any kind. It really is a way of understanding. Um, I'll say this when when I have a client or someone cut approach me, I will tell them, look, I can look at your schematic. I can see what the layout of you is. It's fixed, it doesn't change. And so it helps to unwind yourself with a precision that I haven't found in any other system. It just provides such precision for an individual if they're willing to experiment

— The biggest shift Natalie made once she started living by her own design

SPEAKER_01 10:14

with it.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah. What's the biggest thing you've shifted since you've started living by your design?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Oh my goodness. So I discovered human design in 20 in early 2017 and it just hooked me. I I don't I understand it was like a call to me. I got called to this. And um I started living in response and I started trusting my profile and the way that I'm designed to operate. And I also learned to more fully embrace my emotional nature. I've always known I've been emotional, but really honoring my emotionality, which is where my decision making comes from, has been such a shift for me to just understand that more deeply, more dip deeply, that I want to live a day not on my design. Yeah. Like it just is what it is. So I wouldn't give it up. Yeah. That's what shifted me. And I and I feel like I've come to understand and more easily be authentically me. I just get to be me. Yeah. And that's a right of every individual that the world doesn't offer to us. The the world is homogenized. It says, look, there's ways that you need to operate. And I'm like, there's ways I operate. Yeah. If it relates to what you're saying, then maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And like That's probably why we got along so well.

unknown 11:38

Yeah.

— Self vs. not self: the framework that changes how you see your own reactions

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Um, so we kind of talked earlier about the self and not self. And so as we're talking about that, do you want to explain what the self and the not self is? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

So in when you get the opportunity to pull a chart, pull your own chart or look at your chart, you'll be able to see that there's it's looks like a schematic. It's um there's centers that are colored in or defined, and that's your nature. That's who you are, that's the self. The and if you're looking at a body graph, there are areas that are white or not defined, and that's what we're receptive to, other people's definition. So when you're starting to understand self and not self, you understand that yourself is what you are is your nature. And then the not-self is what's open to conditioning or nurturing. And so the conditioning we start receiving as soon as we're born through other people's definition. And uh when you start to become aware, you can have an understanding that the mind is the spokesperson for the not-self. So we really can't trust our mind to guide our life because it's always coming from the framework of what's conditioned into us, other people's definition, their nature imposed on us, or moving through our aura. And so the not-self ends up in there's four different not-self themes for the four different types. You're either frustrated, bitter, angry for the manifestors that are out there, or uh disappointment. So it starts to help filter your life experiences by recognizing the not-self. You don't have to know exactly what in your body graph is triggering that not-self response. You can just start to understand. So the three of us here are generators or manifesting generators. When we feel frustrated, that's not self. So it's not trustworthy. So it's time to take a pause and then assess according to your strategy. Mostly shift in back into response for a generator and then realign your decisions. Because most likely you've entered into something that was against your own inner authority. It becomes really difficult, honestly, to live your life according to your own governance, which is what human design says. You have the right to govern yourself.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

I love that. There's a lot of duality in that, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Oh, it's we yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Because again, a lot of a lot of things like human design uh are presented to us in this sort of in a religious way, in a scripture. It's somebody else saying, This is your truth, you need to accept it. But what you're saying is that human die design is a tool that we can use to basically access more sovereignty and more true sovereignty from a deeper place, not from running from the the conditions of the ego, which uh I think is a much more appealing message to me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah. Absolutely. Now it does lay a mantle of responsibility on the individual to because there's a lot of responsibility with self-governance. Um, and there's pushback, and there's a lot of times you readjust your life because you realize you entered into job or career or relationships or just everyday things that you chose into against your own inner knowing, which is very common.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

So that feeling of frust, like for people who just are constantly frustrated, they're just living from their not self, but the challenge of living in the self is that they might have to leave their job or a relationship that is no longer going to be in alignment with that self.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Right. Right. Now, if they go back in their own personal history, and in my sessions, I'll say, so when you entered into that, did you have this like inside if it's a generator, then somewhere inside of them they understood.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

But they just ignored it.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah. I I was talking to a, he's a he was he is a sacral generator, and he was telling me during his wedding, he just kept looking at the exit sign and E X I T. I mean, it's very ironic that he was looking at the exit sign, entering into a marriage that just wasn't for him. But he did it for a long time. Didn't, you know, it ended up a lot of life lessons in those things. Yeah. Yeah.

— The man who stared at the exit sign at his own wedding

SPEAKER_00 16:10

What you're saying is really interesting to me. And I I do kind of want to go back to it a bit because there's another part of me, you know, just being honest, like the parts of me that maybe can f feel resistance or bristle. When we talk about, we when we talk about the context of human design relationships, um, it's a little bit um, it kind of reminds me of I think what a lot of people experience when somebody that you barely meet is asking for your when you were born and your time of time of birth and where uh this idea of some other thing deciding who I am to be with rather than the inside of me. But that's not really usually what happens, right? Usually you have two people come to you and as you said, not nearly often enough, but it does happen and say, Hey, we would like to bring the elements of human design into a relationship to have a better relationship. And you're not just reading their chart and saying, Oh, well, you guys should break up because you're Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Right. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

So what so I'm just kind of curious what some of the ways that you you use these elements of design to help couples.

— How Natalie actually works with couples, not by telling them who to be

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So um that's really great question because that's not what I'm looking for. I don't have the insight to look at a couple and choose for them either. I'm not here to be, I'm here to be an outer authority to help people adjust their life. And what I have discovered is that most couples just don't understand each other. They're expecting a person to meet them in the same way that they want to be met. What human design does is it clearly shows I can look at two body graphs and I can clearly say, um, oh, this is why you're having communication problems, because you're both communicating differently, and you're not receiving each other in the way that the mechanics are showing up. I did this session with two projectors. Um, projectors are widely different in the way that their layouts can be. So one was what was called a mental projector or an environmental projector. He only had definition from his throat up, and then she was a splenic projector. They were so opposite. And she sat, they sat down and they're older. And she said, our biggest problem is communication. I looked at their charts and said, Yep. The two of you communicate so differently, you make decisions so differently that of course you have and validation of the issues is so welcoming because oftentimes people, I I don't know, there's psychology or traditional therapy that comes at it, and it comes from a model that isn't personalized at all. So I don't mean to diss traditional therapy at all. It's just not as precise as human design. So if a couple comes to me, I can almost always pinpoint where their main issues are. And it's always coming from where they're different, where they're different because we're very different. And so then coupled with, I've been doing this for so long. I've been coaching um for 15 years, but definitely with design for seven, at least seven years, specifically with the design, that I can just look at that and then I can listen to what's happening with a couple and the way that I can hear it, I can zero in on the aspects that they're doing, and then I can articulate the differences between the two of them. And then I say, look, you guys still need to make your own decisions, and this is how you need to decide. And a lot of times, one of the core differences that's with people is one person will be emotionally defined, which means they are naturally emotional, and another person because we're attracted to things that we're not, the other person is not emotional, which means that they're a receiver of emotional energy and they don't admit it. And so what often happens with couples that one's emotional, one's non-emotional because they were attracted to each other, is the emotional person wants the non-emotional person to meet them in

— Why the emotional person's needs feel unmet, and why that's not their partner's fault

SPEAKER_01 20:14

an emotional way. Yeah. And it doesn't work. The non-emotional person is always left, often spent by trying to process the other person's emotions and meet the emotional wave. Now, emotional waves don't have there's there's a saying in human design circles that said, in emotions, there is no truth in the now. Because only over time does an emotional person get clarity about that emotional energy. And so that's one aspect that's often unpacked and leaves the emotional person a little disappointed often, because they're like, What? But I my needs aren't being met. And it's like, okay, well, we can zero in on what needs are underlying that emotion, but the emotional person can have an awareness that the non-emotional person can't give what they haven't been able to give the whole relationship anyway, because it's not their nature.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

They're designed, they're just not designed that way. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Um it feels like for someone who isn't emotional, I'm an emotional person, an emotional authority. And for most of my life, it's been like, oh, I'm too emotional. My emotions are too bad. But then I judge that part of myself, which kind of puts me in shame. Whereas when I found human design, it kind of like gave me an understanding of like, I'm just designed this way. It doesn't mean that like it's okay for me to explode all over people, but it it does like help give me some context of like, I'm not doing anything wrong. It's just how I'm designed. And I just need a different strategy of waiting 24 hours to not respond from the emotion. Like you said, the truth doesn't live in the emotions, um, which I I do try to do a lot more sensibly. I'm not perfect about it. I'm anyone. I do and be like, I just need a minute. Okay. Like, or don't respond, don't respond, don't respond. And sometimes I still respond, but a lot of times, no, I don't respond. And I'm just like, I just gotta wait 24 hours to respond. And then usually the next day it's like completely different. Or even like that. Yeah. Click to click sign up. You're like, you better, better sleep on the Yeah. I know it was the best thing when my credit card thing didn't work because it made me. There's so many times I went to go buy stuff and like my credit card had expired, and then I went back to go do it, and I couldn't even remember what I was gonna buy.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

So I was like, obviously, I didn't need to buy the amount of the amount of times in our relationship, April said to me, Why did I sign up for this on the decade?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Because you didn't sleep on it or even longer. I've had one couple that I worked with, and um what they were at odds with each other. And um, the gentleman in the relationship, he's like, I just think it's done. And I said, Okay, in seven days, if you still feel that way, then call the relationship off. So seven days has been their mantra and so much shifted in seven days for them. It was a profound experience for him to say, so I will sometimes say, Well, wait seven days. What's wrong with waiting seven days if it's a major decision? Yeah. A decision can wait seven days. And an emotional person will profoundly see something if they're visiting that seven days in a row.

— "It's not an excuse, it's an explanation": reframing nature instead of blaming it

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Well, and I I I love these examples because I think they really highlight a lot of important nuance, you know, especially in this uh you talk about this common dynamic of the emotional and the unemotional person, which by the way is not our dynamic. Um so we have a lot of issues. That's not one of them. We're both very emotional people. But um, you know, I think a lot of the perception that other people can have of things that can be negative is from uh from a simplified approach, it can sound like an excuse, like we're using things excuse, right? Oh, I'm emotional, so you just have to put up with me yelling at you all the time or me buying things that we can't afford. When or on the flip side of that, somebody say, Well, I'm just not an emotional person, so you have no right to ask for connection from me, but that's not what we're saying, right? And I and it we're what we're doing is we're learning how to understand ourselves better, to to have that, like as you said, that sovereignty. And you know, I kind of go back to the example that you know a lot of my life was shaped off, right? Of like being like uh getting into uh 12-step recovery and saying, Oh, I'm I have an addiction. And I've heard a thousand times in my life somebody say, Oh, that's just an excuse. And it's like, no, that was a tool that actually helped me to shift out of that.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

And that's really where, you know, and I only bring that up because I know I'm not the only person that has thought that. And I really think that's important to highlight, you know, like we're we we say, oh, I'm a very emotional person. I tend to, and I know from for me, being an emotional person, so I can speak for the I can speak for that block. Right. Um when intense emotions come up, they very much tell me, like, you need to act now. They do say that. You need to do this right now. And I've even said, and I know you've said this to me too, I went and did it real quick before I changed my mind, which is really a red flag in our minds. And so, but the the awareness of that doesn't necessarily overnight change it. But through that awareness, we can start to develop these little tools, these little reminders, like, okay, I could wait 24 hours. Right. And that's how we use our knowledge of this design to take sovereignty, to take accountability for our nature. And um, and the other thing that I really love that you talked about is how you use it to help two people see each other differently. Because in the in the work that I've done with couples, sometimes I've said to them, like, I feel like I'm an interpreter a lot of the times. Like I'm getting with two people who are speaking a different language. And because I'm outside of it and I have a a varied, like a wide variation experience, I'm like bilingual. And so I will I I've cannot tell you how many times we've like sat down with somebody and I've listened to what one person said, said, I think this is what that person's saying, and then vice versa. And that alone has led to a lot of profound changes. So you're just bringing this in as a tool to help each to help two people see each other differently, which is ultimately what everybody in a relationship wants to see and be seen.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Right. Um, so along so what with what you were saying, I will say this isn't an excuse, it's an explanation. And through explanation, then we can deepen the understanding of each other. It's it's a big deal to understand that someone doesn't have a thing to offer. There's times where you, if you look at a body graph and what you're trying to get from the person, they have no definition to give it to you. Then it's an explanation of why it was never able to be done. It just can't be done. A person that doesn't have that as part of their nature, they can't do that. Yeah. They can't bring something naturally that isn't part of their nature.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah. I mean, that's I feel like a big part of and I don't even remember, but I know that we got my ex-husband's graph spread, but there was certain things emotionally that I was that was exactly the thing, is like he's not meeting my emotional needs. And I had to realize and come to terms that like he was never going to, and it was unfair of me to ask him. Like we were wired differently. That's really what it was at the end of the day. Is like we were wired differently, and this is never going to happen, and I'm never going to do this. And we've got to stop trying to push each other or become the not self with each other. Um, because it just wasn't, yeah, it was never gonna work. No, and that

— Why the undefined partner feels the emotional wave even stronger than the emotional one

SPEAKER_02 28:07

creates a lot of pain.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Right. The uh the other awareness to have is that what's undefined in a person, which is a receptive place, is also a place of amplification. So if we're just sticking with talking about this one center, the solar plexus, which is the emotional center, the emotional person's wave is kicking, you know, and how you said, I have to do this now. There's a lot of energy in push to do this now. The other person that is the receiver of those emotional waves feels it stronger, like multiple times more than the emotional person. So the read isn't even accurate.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

You know, that's it kind of reminds me of something my uh ADHD therapist uh in the in a in an ADHD relationship where one person is the one that's always overscheduling. Both parties feel like the other person has all the power in the relationship. And I imagine there's probably that's a very similar kind of dynamic happening here. One person's emotional, the other person's not. Both parties feel like the other person is dictating the level of emotional connection.

— Chad's undefined head and mind: why his thoughts feel so loud, and why most of it isn't even his

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Which they are, because it comes from their definition. So the wisdom starts to be available to you if you understand that you're amplifying an energy instead of having that be where you need to live from. So in your case, Chad, you have a completely undefined head and ajna center. So you're always amplifying mental energy. That's part of like to understand that that ADHD aspect and going, oh, you're you're very loud in the head because you're pulling in so much mental structure that it's super loud, but it's never you. And what a wonderful thing to be able to receive the freedom from letting it move through you instead of hook you as if it needs, if it matters. Most of that stuff up there doesn't matter. It's better if you use it for a source of wisdom for other people. You know, you're just like, wow, I filtered all this. Uh you've I've filtered all of this mental information all my life, and I have the ability to discern what's quality or just what's junk. You would be a wise man to understand people talk about a lot of things or think about a lot of things. I just don't have any substance to them because you're filtering it all the time. But without that, you think I try not to say that out loud, but I do think that every day.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Because you feel it. But it's I did just want to say one thing too. Just just again to speak to the the voice of how easily some of these things can be misunderstood, right? Just because two people maybe have these differences doesn't mean sometimes it does, sometimes there is a fundamental incompatibility, right? And I think April brought up her story, and it and there's a lot to that story. And if if anybody hasn't heard it, then I invite you to go listen to episode six from season one. But other times, what that means is that we learn to that doesn't necessarily always mean that I can't meet your needs or you can't meet mine. Sometimes it just means it might look differently. Like in the case, as you said, most relationships that you've encountered have an emotional and unemotional person, but you're not saying most relationships don't work. No. You're saying that there's ways that we can learn to meet each other's needs in a way that looks differently.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Right. If you haven't come across human design, then you're living in a very homogenized way. And you think everything that you feel, sense, think about inside of your skin is you. Yeah. Um when you're dealing with a couple that feels either one of them or both of them don't feel like their needs are being met, I want to touch back into the not-self and the self. And so it's our not-self that is generally the most demanding that says my needs aren't being met. Instead of the self. The self has a solidity, a calm that's there because it doesn't really need to have needs met. Your self is fully functional, self-governing. It's really fine without having to have someone else complete you. So when you start to understand the not-self voices that are in the mind, it's generally that aspect that drives the issues in a relationship. So if that can be uncovered and unpacked, then a lot of the relationship, the issues that were such a big deal in the relationship just shrink because they're they're not really an issue. It's more the framework of the not-self. Now, the mind goes crazy on not-self aspects. So depending on what the framework of the not-self is, there's ways of recognizing the examples of what the mind's saying and recognizing the mind isn't reliable for unpacking your life. Even if it's defined for no one, for no one. No, for no one's design. No. So it's like yours, April. You're have a defined mind. It's really good as an outer authority for other people. When you try to run your life on your mind, whoa. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

So when I'm in my mind, does he get amplified? Yes. By mine? Yes. And so he's like, when I'm like in my head a lot, then his feels even more magnified because he's receiving it. Yeah. It doesn't track.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, maybe so knock it off.

unknown 33:33

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

I'm cleanly his own.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

No, I mean to be to be honest though, that also, I mean, that makes a lot of sense the way you put it because, you know, I know April is such a good coach and at the amount of people that she's that have just talked about how much she's helped transform their lives. And then sometimes maybe she's struggles a little more to turn that inward. But I mean, that's the nature of the mind, right? Is it's very, it's like a great, it does great at perceiving the world, but not so great at perceiving the inner world. Maybe that's a a fair way to say it.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Well, I would say specifically with April, because the way uh all the definition, the channels, the gates, the layout of a of a mind isn't just a generalization. So your particular mind happens to be really good at discovering patterns by reviewing the past and then putting that into now and then doing that over and over again. So throughout your whole life, you have been a person that has naturally picked up patterns. It's an abstract, it you just notice these patterning that goes on in life. And that's what you bring, I'm sure, in your coaching. I mean, that's exactly the type of coaching I do as pattern recognition. So fancy that. Yeah. And that's why you're very good at it because you don't even have to strive. Yeah. You're you're just like, well, I have this naturally. So if this is what you're looking for in a coach, I'm the coach for you because I'll be able to notice the patterns that are going on with you and then help you see that. And then they can choose whether they're breaking them or just coming to a different acceptance of what it is that they do. Because so often what we do isn't necessarily negative. What we do is what we do. Yeah. Yeah. And understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

So so while

— Natalie reads Chad and April's charts live for the first time

SPEAKER_00 35:23

we're on the subject of April and relationships. So we we thought it would be fun to um to spend some time in the show actually doing an example. And um, we invited Natalie to bring our charts and some of the work that she's done to uh talk about our relationship in the context of human design. And so we thought it would be really fun and interesting to get a little vulnerable and have you kind of show show in action how that might work.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

So I was I was looking at the two of you. Um, and so one of the things that jumped out, and there's several things that jumped out, so I'll just sort of tick them off, is that um April has a channel of struggle, and you have one gate of that channel. So you end up in the relationship with April, always compromising to her struggle. It's a compromise, and compromise is kind of a tough thing because there's nothing you can do about that. She's in her struggle, can never take her struggles away from her because it's part of her nature, is to struggle. But she has the warrior spirit, she'll keep climbing up that hill as long as it's the correct struggle for you. Because sometimes you get caught up in struggle that you have no value in, and you chose into something that wasn't for you to struggle. Not only that, but you have guilt motivation, so you're a natural fixer. And one of the things that's different is Chad isn't. So Chad is a hope person, and so Chad's not here to fix, it's more passive, and you're like, we need to fix it, we need to fix it, and go to the struggle. And he's like, I don't see it the same way that you do, but okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Does that I think one one of the things you said that I really stood out to me is the when you talked about her spending so much energy and struggles that she didn't choose into, because I feel like that's been a big part of our relationship is me trying to kind of help her see because she does, she is have incredible perseverance and and will and ability and and um trying to help her put that towards the things she's actually choosing into, which um can be difficult in the middle of it, you know. I think we've all we've all been there, right? Like realizing like why am I putting so much energy into this instead of that? So I that definitely checks out. Me only having one gate of struggle seems a little bit odd, but I'm gonna continue to go with it.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Well, I mean, so when you the two of you are together, you're always feeling that channels energy, but you ha happen to have a gate that's in your root center, the the gate that has the warrior spirit in it. Um, and so that's an aspect that you may just be able to finesse and zero in on it and feel it a little bit different. But does it ever when she's struggling over there, do you ever just want to free her from that and say, why, why are you doing that? Why are you doing that?

— April's struggle channel and why Chad can never fully "fix" it

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Sometimes I want to, but it's it's I think it's just a little differently. Um, you know, I I feel like I am very good. I've learned to be very comfortable with other people's emotions, being sad, being angry, being whatever. But I really struggle with the um repetition of patterns, which is more so myself than anybody, right? Where I'm I kind of always like in myself tell I feel like a lot of times I'm the person on the Titanic saying, There's an iceberg, there's an iceberg, we don't need to hit the damn iceberg again. Um, and that's probably where my frustration, not self-energy, comes into play and can be somewhat destructive.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Um, for sure. And so, in addition to this one area that I just jumped into, um, April has a defined root and you do not. So the root center has to do with adrenalized stress energy. And so you'll amplify the stress that's there for you to meet the challenge or the struggle. And you amplify the stress. And so that stress is never your stress. You don't, you're not a person that naturally stresses out when you have the awareness that it's not your stress energy.

— Defined root vs. undefined root: who actually owns the stress in the room

SPEAKER_00 39:31

When I'm alone in a room, I don't know. But yeah. But then when you're around people that have that, or on social media or watching the news or talking to other people.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah, that checks out a lot, actually.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

So when she's stressed out, you're like, How quickly can we get through this? So the not-so-voice of a person with an undefined root says, Are you trying to get things done quickly to be free of the pressure that you're feeling? And the recognition that the pressure doesn't belong to you, it's coming from elsewhere, and it's someone's nature, so it's April's nature. She doesn't, she doesn't feel like she's causing a lot of putting pressure on you because it's her nature and what's natural in us we take for granted. We don't recognize it like a person with an undefined area that's receiving it. So there's part of that she's like, okay, I'm just gonna let you do your thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah, that makes that that checks out a lot, actually. That especially when you when you bring in the word pressure, um, that is something that I definitely have more and more become aware of struggling with how much other people's emotional energy can feel or or can can feel like pressure and how I tend to be sort of I tend to push back on a sense of pressure, even though it's not always actually real. A lot of it is sometimes, you know, coming from my mind or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Right. Um, so if we were to take what you just said was emotional energy, and we're gonna put it in the root energy, which is stress. So it's separate categories. The pressure that you're feeling isn't emotional per se, it's more of that stress mechanism, someone with a defined root, and you're amplifying it. I have an undefined root myself, so I recognize that in my, you know, and and driving one of the examples I'll have is I I want to go fast to get away from following a person. But that's my not self, this is I want to do things quickly to be free of pressure that I'm feeling and recognizing when I sense pressure, when I sense it, it's not me. It's not I don't have to do anything about that.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

And honestly, that part may not even feel true to April because I am usually the one saying, you know, let's be the tortoise, not the hare. But that's from but she isn't like that's some the lesson I've learned the hard way from 40 years of my life of doing that exact thing. Yeah and and just finally getting tired of the results. Right. Like I have to I have had to learn to have that tool to check my own nature because it is definitely my nature is to be like, okay, let's just hurry up and be done with this so that we can just get through it. But um, you know, eventually, like like we we can learn to bring the self in and and not and I want to be careful because I'm not saying counteract our own nature, but but take accountability for our own nature so that it doesn't run our life unconsciously.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Right. So understanding that nature still is understanding what is undefined is your nature. Your nature is to always feel pressure when someone else is around you that has a defined root. So it is your nature to feel the pressure. You can't eliminate the pressure because it's coming from someone else's definition. And so in those moments when you feel the pressure, you can then center yourself into your, you know, into your core, and then you can move through it in a different way than if you're trying to respond and react and make a decision from that place. So it's not for you to decide from that. This is where we start finessing the decision-making process, and you understand you have an inner authority and multiple authorities, actually. As you get deep in the understanding of design, you start to understand that a lot of generators are definitely manifesting generators, have multiple authorities. And so there's lots of voices that are choosing to decide from, and knowing that since you're emotional, you it's always about time, which is the tortoise approach, which is actually quite appropriate for you. Cause as a person that's motivated through hope, you're meant to be take your

— The channel of busyness and charisma: why Chad can't stop filling his calendar

SPEAKER_01 43:42

time. You're not here to fix everything. Just remember that you're not here to fix everything. Let April do the fixing. She's got she's properly motivated by it. That's right. That's what I'm gonna do. That's right. So what one of the other aspects is to go. With you, Chad, is that you have the channel um 3420, which is a channel of being busy. It's also the channel of charisma. So you're a charismatic person naturally, you carry that. It's yeah, it's like, and um, but it also drives a busyness that April doesn't share. And so your calendar, you'd be like, okay, well, I've got like two-hour block here. I could put something else in there, and I could put something else in there. And then you end up being busy. And your friends and the people that know and love you know you're a busy person because you are busy. You're busy, busy. You can't do it right now. I'm busy, I'm busy to do this and that and the other. And as a manifesting generator, you like a lot of irons in the fire. You do, you are quite capable of doing multiple things. You're not just a one person, do one thing at a time kind of person. You're here to have a lot of things going at once. So it's a busyness. Now you don't share the same.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Which is interesting because I'm way more busy with my calendar than he is, and he's the one always telling me not to be busy. Right. But as far as being productive on like if it's a Saturday or a Sunday, I definitely can like lay out in the grass and relax more. Whereas Chad's like, I gotta pull weeds, I gotta do this. Like, I just want to do something productive today. So, but in in general, my schedule is definitely more packed.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Well, and and that isn't one because that's one where I'm I there's a part of me wants to push back on, but but I because that is another area where I've been that way my whole life and feel like I've reached this point in my life where I'm craving to do less in a way I never have before. Like I've always been that person that's like trying to do too much.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

And I learned that I don't um like what happens is that I'm not present enough in one thing. Right. You know, because yeah, I put that time in that that fill that two-hour block, but like I at some point I just hit this wall where I'm just like sick of everything I'm doing, thinking about, oh, gotta hurry up and finish this because the next thing. Right. Because that is how I have driven myself that whole so sometimes it's funny because we have these arguments, like it's probably honestly, this is probably the single most thing we've argued about in the time that we've met is why did you put so much stuff on the calendar? But if we had met five years ago, we might have had a completely opposite dynamic, right? And so, um, and I'm and I'm not really sure how to to how that all aligns, but like there, yeah, there's a part of me that's has to put a lot of intention and use a lot of tools and a lot of like consciousness because if I go unconscious, I will overschedule myself to the point that I don't feel like my like life is my own, even though I'm the one that put all this stuff on there, right? You know, and so um that is a kind of one of the more interesting dynamics because when you first say that on my own, oh, April's the busy one.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Right, but you have to recognize that she has the openness, and so that may be an aspect of not-self, that you're being busy when you're not actually supposed to do that by design. And so you may be feeling that through conditioning, or it might be a not-self aspect for you. And then to listen to you, Chad, what I hear you saying is that you've discovered that Chad time could be busy time as well. So you can be busy doing Chad stuff and satisfied that way instead of always. So one of the um aspects of a 3420 is gate 34 is the gate of the power of the great. And it's it's great power when it's used for the common good. So a lot of times people that have that gate 34 end up just giving themselves completely to the common good and sometimes get starved in their personal realm for self-sustenance and taking care of themselves. So it sounds like through the work that you've done, you've become more more healthy in that energy versus where you were in your life previously.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

I would I would say I'm in that transition. You know, that space between awareness where some of those patterns are breaking, but I can fall into it very easily. And in what you what you just said, yeah, I I I definitely feel pulled to, you know, uh it was even like uh I've always felt this sort of sense of global like uh awareness and care. Like I've I've never really felt like people like I've never really cared about borders or colors or anything. You know, I've just always like I feel joy when I am doing something that I feel like has an impact on other people. Yeah. Um and deep a deep sense of purpose. And without that, I I get lost without that purpose. You know, that was probably the the hardest, one of the hardest parts about my transition from the world of 12-step recovery, because there was always there was always ingrained in that like a purpose of helping someone that was struggling. And I eventually found my way into coaching and now you know this podcast and every other work we do now, because like there was something missing in me without that, without that uh sense of purpose and caring about the world. There's a dark side to that too.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

It's true. I'm familiar, I have that in my chart. So working through work-life balance has been an aspect that I've uh strive to work on all the time. It's still something that I work with.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

It is one area that I really appreciate uh having April as a partner a lot. It's because she's very good at helping me to sensing when I'm getting lost in the the the world out there and bringing me back into the moment and into this life.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Yeah,

— Defined throat vs. undefined throat: why April's voice changes depending on who's in the room

SPEAKER_02 50:00

we had talked earlier when we first started doing some coaching with you about our throat chakras, which I think would be interesting to talk about on our podcast. Um, because you said chat has this way of disseminating information that like people can just hear easier, and I have an open throat, right? So can you explain the difference between those two and how that might show up on yeah?

SPEAKER_01 50:22

So um a person that has a defined throat has a set specific, consistent way of speaking. And then you with your undefined throat, it's part of that that's like pressure to talk. Or I remember when we were having the sessions, I was talking, you were expressing that sometimes you just not as confident when you're doing this podcast as Chad comes across. He's consistent, he has his voice, it's always the same voice, and yours depends on who's in the room and where your throat is a receptive place for communication. I was saying you have this ability to, you have the ability to filter what someone's saying when you have the awareness of that. You can tell if it's quality, if the the communication is has a depth to it, those types of aspects. But when it comes to being consistent when you vocalize, it's not there. It's so much in response. So if someone says, in your regular life, you can sit in a room and just be very comfortable being quiet. Um, if unless someone like says, Hey, April, what do you want to say about that? And then your voice comes on. Yeah. So that was part of understanding that you have an inconsistent voice. And your voice can change depending on who you're around and what's going on in the room.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Yeah, is that why I have a hard time doing like Instagram stories sometimes because I don't have anyone to respond to? Right. Cause like sometimes I feel like I'm like, I don't know what to say, but like if there's someone there, or if I just finished a coaching session, I'm like, oh, that is something I could take from that. But that's why the podcasting is so much easier and why I wanted to do it with someone because I do need that response. And I've always been like, oh, I I've just always said it as I just do better when like I play off of other people. Oh, yeah. So that that makes a lot of sense. And it does change, you know, if I'm in a room full of CEOs versus a room full of children versus a room full of volunteer work or something. Like I can kind of meet anyone on whatever level they're at and have conversations that are like that, like, oh, I'm gonna have this conversation with you, and then I'm gonna have this conversation with you, and um, something makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

You know, what's interesting about that is uh because we talk about like the natural and the uh and the unnatural. I can do that too, but it wears me out. Like I really uh that's where my social battery can be limited. My social battery around people that I feel that I can be my full self with is like very high. But I've you know been in boardrooms with billionaires, and I've also been in rooms in in uh treatment centers with drug addicts, you know, and um I can get worn out very easily because I have to put a lot of intentional effort to meet people at that level. Whereas for April, can we we can go to all these different social things and she just seems to have never run out of energy because maybe because that's natural.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Maybe that kind of explains that.

— Defined heart vs. undefined heart: where self-worth actually comes from

SPEAKER_01 53:29

I think that uh that brings up another aspect that is in your chart, Chad, which is the defined heart that is um defined and it's defined through the channel of the transmitter. And so you have an awareness of whether you're in front of an audience that wants to hear you speak or not. Are they willing to hear your message? Or are you having to just hold back and not speak a message? So that channel of a transmitter is called a projected channel, and it means your audience has to find you or has to be receptive to your message. Otherwise, that will, that part that comes out of the heart, that you're like, hey, I got, I really have something, and your willpower is just pushing you to send the message or to speak about it. There's times where you have to just have to hold back. And that can be hard because that's a lot of energy. That's a powerful motor, that heart center. And if it if you miss if you're trying to push in a room that's not receptive, that's not your audience, it really can drain you.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Well, and I've learned eventually just to not try, but even the even the effort of not speaking my mind because I know intuitively like the people around wouldn't be receptive to it, is draining to me. Like sometimes I'm like, I got I gotta get out of here because they're not your people. But the not talking is is uh first me. I think that's why I love doing the podcast, honestly, because we can I just don't have to think about the people that are don't that aren't receptive to it. This would be it's much easier to just speak and trust that whoever's open to it will listen, and whoever's not, I won't have to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

I can see how that would work for you.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Which is probably why I I really love coaching, but I absolutely hate selling it.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Yes, it's interesting. You do have the design, and that that channel, the transmitter, is a salesperson as long as you're in front of your audience. You're a very effective salesperson. Yeah, but if it's not your audience, then something inside of you recognizes that. It does, and then you're just like, there's no point in pursuing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

You know, I just want to point out for a second that when I met Natalie, I did not come in. I came in very much like, I don't know if I believe any of this stuff. I'm very skeptical, I don't like being told what to do. And I think it's funny that I am so receptive to it, despite sometimes my best efforts.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

But even the first because the first time that you saw that tour, she said, Yeah, your design would say that.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Yes. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Like she could tell by your design that you were gonna be risk resistant and skeptical. Like she's like, Yeah, that's how you're designed. She didn't take any offense.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Honestly, that is so true. I could just be like, I'm very skeptical of what you're selling me. And they're like, that's okay. I'm like, oh, okay, I'll listen. Which I think is good. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

I I'm not here. I have an undefined heart. So I have learned throughout my time that the times I'm striving to prove human design is when I'm in my not-self. And it's like, I don't have to prove anything. You try it. If you want to un unwind your life with precision, go ahead and experiment with it. If you don't, okay. Yeah. Keep doing what you're doing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

My not-self is very closed-minded and stubborn.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

You know, I it's one of the many things I love about uh being with April is because she I mean, that was kind of how relationship started, you know. I was like, we're not doing this, we're not doing that. I'm not ready enough for that. I'm just sorry for that. Don't try to convince me of that. And she's just like, okay. I'm like, oh, that's it's hot.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

She's like, okay. It's just fun. Don't want to learn about something fun. Like, that's fine.

unknown 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

I'm just gonna learn about it and read your chart and know everything about you anyway.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

I know. It's I I wish I could say I got much better about it, but she's still like, oh, I just learned this thing and they're gonna tell us all the special relationship. And I'm like, right.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Yeah. Well, it's kind of like when we were talking about with couples, though, like, and really understanding them. I could see as we're talking and how I'm wanting Chad to be like me because it doesn't drain me. And I'm like, go talk to this person or go do this, right? And so, like, even as we're talking about with relationships and how you're wanting that person to show up like you, but instead of understanding, so it's a really good reminder that when we are in social situations, saying on air, Chad.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

The other thing we're always like, let's record, let's record this.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

We're recording this, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

We go to a party and she'd be like, You weren't talking. Is everything okay? I'm like, nobody ever shut up. Listening.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

You talk the whole time.

unknown 58:27

You did it.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Well, not even you, you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

Well, it's not even when you said you could be fine in a room not talking, I can be totally comfortable not talking. Right. But most of the time, people come talk to me. Well, like in a room. Like someone will always end up talking to me in a conversation. I will never be in a room just sitting by myself not talking unless I'm like choosing like to do that.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

So that there's an aspect where we on such an unconscious level recognize some of the dynamics that are in the framework of design, explained by the framework of a body graph and the design, is you're very receptive. You because you have an undefined throat, it may be that people are attracted to the undefined throat, and then they'll talk to you, and you're receptive to communication. Yeah. Where you are fixed in your way. And one interesting thing to know is about having a defined, well, and then I'm gonna step into this, say, well, here's the thing about having a defined heart is that having a defined heart, which is a defined ego, willpower, self-worth, two-thirds of the global population doesn't have that. So to come up against someone that has a, you know, you have a steady sense of worth, two-thirds of people around aren't, and they're amplifying the ego. So then sometimes they they can, it's possible that someone might sense have a sense of intimidation because of what you carry in your energy field. You have a lot um that's just in your nature. And um do you ever find people compete with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah, and and then you're not in competition and and get intimidated by me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

And I'm just like, people get tri people get triggered by you a lot, but I do think it is his self-worth and his self-confidence, yeah, and his natural will. Yeah. Whereas like I don't have that, like I am constantly gonna be struggling with that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

Yeah, until you just let that not self go and realize that your struggles throughout your whole life to to gain self-worth and to keep it is a fruitless struggle because you don't have a place to keep it where Chad just carries it naturally.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

Can I just keep it in Chad's then and he'll tell it, give it to me when I want it?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Yeah, but it's always it's always a idea. You're like, just remind me that I have maybe babe.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

This isn't an X-rated episode. We don't need it. We don't need to talk about that one here. No, I you know, I I when you first told us about that and and her not having a defined voice, I there's a lot of resistance to that because I have been with April for a while now, and I have I can hear when April is speaking her voice and when she's speaking someone else's. But April can't always hear that. And maybe that's like it doesn't mean that she doesn't like sometimes I I I I I maybe I'm just speaking this because this was how I first heard it. It's like, oh, she's she has her own voice, she's her own heart, but the it's it's not saying that she just doesn't have those things. Right. It's more um, it is very much easier for me to not be um influenced heavily by other people.

— Learning to tell the difference between your own voice and someone else's inside your head

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Because those things are defined, whereas the undefined nature can cause it to um can the person that has it undefined, they just have to be more aware that they they have to be more aware that it might take more discernment to tell what's theirs and what's not theirs inside. Yes. And you said that I I don't have an undefined mind, and I like literally can get into anything. Like if somebody sits there, starts talking about somebody walks in here and was like, listen, I really love crochet, and they started talking about why they geek out on it. Uh by the end of it, I'll be like, Let's crochet. Yeah. You know, so I I have that kind of makes me like a total nerd, I guess, but um it it's I just think like I just think a lot of my skepticism hasn't completely gone away, but it goes away every minute that I talk to you. I say very naturally, um, is you know, wanting to it's the way that I contend to hear it. But it is it is it is true, you know. Like I and then it and then when we when one of the I think one of the most one of the tools we learned after we worked with you the first time, you know, was April B like, I need to go sit by myself and figure out what I think here or feel here. Yeah, what's mine. And I need to go away from the noise to do that. And I have to do that sometimes too, but it's more about it's less about how I feel, like my my gr sort of grounded heart ideals or whatever you want to call them. And it's more about like I am I need to get away from all the noise to figure out what to do here. And I'll become really sensitive to that, you know. Like when we're putting when we were like learning in the last year how to start a podcast and advertise it, and April be like sending me different stuff, and I'll be like, no, don't send me any more stuff. I got too much stuff because I I do like it's hard, it gets all up in my mind, and the actual mind part of it will become very jumbled, and I'll need to go completely away from the noise to figure out what's actually mine. I don't know, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Yeah, that's exactly what human design also offers is that when we're in another person's aura, we're a blend. When we're in our own space, we can come back to ourself and recognize you know of the self. So there's times where it's helpful to understand I need to go somewhere by myself and come back to me because when I'm by myself, I can just be away from all those other diff the definition of another person, and then I can come back to myself and I can center into whatever is my inner authority and I can choose more clearly.

— Role models explained: April the Opportunist and Chad the Hermit

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's talk real quick about our we both have the role model, right? Um, yes. Yeah. So can you explain? Because I think that's kind of part of like what drew us together is the the role model number. So I'm a four six and he's a six, two, six, two. So he's just a hermit role model and I'm an opportunist. Yeah, you're an opportunist role model and he's an a role model hermit. Yeah. Could you explain what that means?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

So the profile, um so the profile is like or is described as your character. So it's like the costume that you wear. If you were gonna be superhero, then it would be the costume that you wear, or the role that you're playing. If we were all in a play and you had the role that you were playing, that's what the profile is. So you as a role model hermit, you have conscious role model, you go through your life, three parts in your life, learning a whole lot of things before you were 30 that didn't work out, trial and error, like life coming at you, you coming at life. You have this whole pile of things that you've discovered that worked or didn't work. So there's wisdom in that. And then between 40 and 20. Uh 30 and 50, which is where you are now, right? In that part of your life. You go above the fray. So it's not as difficult as it was before you turned 30, now in your life, and you're still discovering things, but it's not nearly as intense. And so there's these three parts to your life. After 50, you come off of the roof, as they say, back into the fray, but with the wisdom that you just embody your role. So a role model that's conscious like that goes through that with awareness. You have an awareness of that. Now take that same framework, but put it in your unconscious. So your body's been through it. So your body was going through all of that before you were 30. And now your body's out of that zone. So it's more relaxed now in your life. And then you go back into the fray a little bit more after you're 50. And you're there's as long as you treat your body according to design, you'll be able to flow with that. And your body models um the form, the, the, the correct form. And then you have a conscious opportunist. So you have a natural networking ability that you just naturally network. So of course, you have many more social engagements that you're drawn into doing it. And his unconscious hermit's like, I just want to be at home. And you don't have a hermit. So you don't have a hermit. So here's his hermit that's like, why are you dragging me out again? I just need to be in my cave or in my in my home space. And you're just like, no, we need to go out and we need to meet friends and we've got the social circle. And he doesn't have a drive for that opportunist part like you do consciously, where you're networking and you just have so many people that know so many people, and all your opportunities and your opportunities come from all the people that you know. They flow through that to you. So that's where some of that difference is. You can meet each other at the six, but the four and the two are just not harmonious like the six is. Yeah. So there's part of that to having the awareness that his hermit still got a hermit. And your opportunist has got an opportunity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:20

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

And not to say that I don't enjoy socializing and April doesn't enjoy hermiting, but the ratios are way off.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

Way different.

unknown 1:08:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:32

That's that's an example of what human design does for couples, is that it gives explanations and some verbiage that you can then hold on to, that you can bring to the table when you're deciding what you're doing together or separately. And it can be a freeing thing to say, well, I'm just gonna go to this thing by myself. And he is saying, that's lovely. And then you are like, but, but, but, but, but, or then you can just like put that not self-voice off to the side and go freely and know he's fine because you're like, oh, he's got a hermit. His hermit's gotta like go be a hermit, and then you can relax in doing what you need to do as your opportunist self. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

I feel like we're pretty much quite a bit. Yeah. I mean, I'm smiling a lot thinking about how much that's been a shift even in the last six months. And it's still a work in progress because we don't change overnight.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

But no.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:29

Um, yeah, every for those that weren't because the camera was on you where you were talking that whole time you were describing the last thing you were scribbling, I was just nodding.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

So um is there anything else we wanted to what does it mean when well, real quick, I want to know because I forgot. So he has a defined heart and I have an undefined heart. And so explain what that means again. So I have a defined mind, he has an undefined mind, I have an undefined throat. So, like he, I think when I remember when we first started dating and I showed you his chart, and you you were like, Yeah, you guys could like not not be together. Like you're we're like a magnet that was just like yeah, coming together because we fill like I have a defined root, he has an undefined root. Like we basically fill all of our centers together, yeah, right, which I think is cool. Um, so about I just can't remember what the heart, how does that show up for me versus him when he has a defined heart? So defined heart.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

What it does is so we've talked about pressure, pressure coming from the root, or pressure coming from the head. Well, you feel pressure to prove yourself all the time when you're around him. As long as you don't give in to the pressure and you catch yourself, oh that's me overexplaining, trying to prove myself. I mean, you're under that pressure all the time in a relationship with him. And it sometimes you could be one of those people that compete with him. And he has, he takes it for granted. He's got a sense of worth, he's got this consistent sense of worth. He has the will and that heart center to prove himself. So he's gonna go about his regular life just proving himself just by his being. Yeah. And he's got the worth and the confidence. Well, you don't have that. You weren't built with it. You don't need it. You're using your other aspects that are in your chart to live life. As long as you're paying attention to that pressure and you're not overly explaining. So be mindful of when you start explaining yourself a lot. Yeah. That's one indicator that you're trying to prove that it's okay that you did it this way or this other way. I smile because I've had people with defined hearts that I have the awareness they have a defined heart, my completely undefined heart. And they're like, you don't have to explain yourself. And I'm like, oh, there I go, trying to prove myself. Yeah. So that's the aspect that comes with two people. Now I remember when I was first talking to you about it and I looked at the charts, and that's one of those things that's like, oh, just caution. Caution because you guys have a lot of differences, and the nature of your relationship um was like you complete each other, which can feel super attractive. And then down the road, if it's not worked with according to the your natures, you can sort of lose yourself in that. And um, it can bring out a lot of you in each other, and but that kind of relationship is a very a relationship that's very good for growth opportunities. So um with human design, it offers to say, look, someone's crossed our fractal, they crossed our path, they're here in my timeline. And so as long as you can live according to your strategy and your authority, then it can be a great relationship. It doesn't mean just because we're different. I mean, very rarely, I mean, I'm gonna say it this way if you had a person that was like you, it would be so boring. So boring that it doesn't have a lot of attraction in a relationship like that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

That makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:14

What do

— Natalie's services, where to find her, and her grief support work

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

you think? I just laughing because I've never telling you we'll never be bored.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

That's not been a problem. Uh I feel like we could talk to you all day, but I do want to um before we in, um, for anybody out there who is interested in working with you, I uh clearly highly recommend it based upon my reaction. But in just in case I'll explicitly state that I highly recommend you work with Natalie if you're interested at all. Um how can they get in touch with you and what are some of the services that you offer?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

So I do one-on-one sessions or sessions with couples, and they can reach out. Um, let's see. So the this is where I get to my contact information that's just not always on the song. But um, so I my office is based in, I can tell you these things. My office is based in South Ogden and I do in person, but I also do sessions via Zoom or phone. So I can do wherever they are in the world, I can do a session with them. I've actually worked internationally before, which is kind of fun to be able to work internationally. Um, but I really love my in-person clients to be able to work with pe people in person. And um, I work out of a company called Vibes, so they can look that up. But I'll give you all my my contact that you can put in.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

So is your website the best place for someone to go?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:41

So they can go there to find out, but they have to contact me directly. So they just have to reach me on my phone.

unknown 1:14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

You have your own podcast, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:52

Yeah. So I am uh uh I've been on Soul Wanderings, which is live every Wednesday at six on YouTube, and I've been doing that for three or four years. Soul Wanderings has been around. AJ has been doing Soul Wanderings for almost 10 years, and I've been on it for the last several years. And so we do that every week. It's an hour. Uh it's fun. We talk about a variety of topics, most of it's um mystical or consciousness spirituality based, but it's fun to listen to the two of us just go at it and talk to each other. But it's done. I listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:31

Um, and you one more thing, you do grief counseling. I do. And I think that's important to mention after our last episode as well. Um, and you also host a group in person.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

I actually facilitate the grief groups for Linquist Mortuary up in the Ogden area, Ogden and Leighton, well, specifically Roy and Leighton. Um, two groups a week for them. And I have a suicide loss group that I've been doing. I've been doing suicide loss grief groups for 14 years. Yeah. And I have one that I host in my space, and it's twice a month for people that are in search of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

Yeah, awesome. We'll make sure we link that locally for all our people.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:12

So well, uh, one last question. Yeah.

— Final advice: stop buying your own bullshit

SPEAKER_00 1:16:16

What is one piece of advice that you would leave our audience with to give them hope and love?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

Oh, please learn your design and please start learning how you have a particular strategy and an inner authority for decision making, because it really will change your life. It's not for everyone, but that's what I would give them. But if they don't want to do that, um just be aware that our mind is sort of crazy. So it's not always the best decision maker. So don't always listen to your mind. Listen to your body. Follow your body around for a week and see what's different. All that fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

And I'm let me just interpret that for those that are very non woo. Just don't buy your own bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

Well, thank you so much, Daddy. You're welcome. And I just want to remind everybody to be brave. Love is worth it.