The Soil is Broken - and It's Showing Up in Our Patients | Dr. Nanda | Part 4

This episode isn't about eating clean. It's about what's actually missing from the food chain before the food reaches you - and what it takes to try to fix it at the source.

In Part 4 of this conversation, Dr. Nanda - physician, researcher, and now regenerative farmer - breaks down the microbial science behind soil health, why conventional and even organic farming practices are building the wrong ecosystem, and what he's running into as he tries to scale a compost operation designed to restore what chemical agriculture has removed.

We cover:

• Why a handful of soil already contains enough nutrients for an acre - and why the plant still can't access them without the right microbial activity
• The difference between what a standard farm soil test measures versus what's actually present in the soil at an elemental level
• Why raw manure - including organic chicken manure - builds an anaerobic ecosystem that undermines long-term soil health
• Why organic certification and hydroponic growing don't guarantee nutritional density, and the nutrient count question older agricultural texts answer differently than current ones
• The equipment gap Dr. Nanda is trying to engineer around: standard boom sprayers designed for chemicals shred living microbes, and the infrastructure for compost application at scale doesn't exist yet
• Why regenerative systems are more resilient to climate variability than chemical inputs - and why that matters now
• The direct connection between soil microbiome depletion, prebiotic starvation, and the chronic disease patterns Dr. Nanda sees in his patients

This is a conversation about systems - biological, agricultural, and operational - and what it looks like to build something new inside infrastructure that wasn't designed for it.

This is Part 4 of an ongoing conversation. Parts 1–3 are available in the Chief Milestones feed.

Chief Milestones is a podcast studying how real operators, founders, and decision-makers build durable outcomes under real constraints - in business, health, and family.

Chief Milestones is a video podcast featuring honest conversations with founders, parents, and investors about building real businesses, staying healthy, and raising families.

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Transcript

Soil And Chronic Illness Link

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:00

Do you see a connection between how food is grown and the raise in chronic illness? 100%. It's not even a question.

Dr. Nanda 0:07

100%.

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:08

It's about the pesticides killing the microbes and you eating food that doesn't have yes, the microbes and doesn't have the nutrients that the microbes were providing the plants.

Dr. Nanda 0:22

And your microbiome is directly dependent on these microbes.

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:30

So let's talk about the soil health and farming. So yes, we just covered on how you ended up getting into the farming. And did you expect it to go in this direction?

Hidden Minerals And The Tree Clue

Dr. Nanda 0:42

When I first started, and uh I told you when I heard that there is so many microbes that have different functions in the soil to help plants grow, I was like, you know what? I found my answers. And then I started to study and we started the compost facility. So my original vision was just to make compost, supply the microbes in compost to other people, and let them do the farm work or backyard garden or even lawns, you know. They spray so much chemicals in everybody's lawns because they want it to be lush and green, of course. But that all the chemicals will kill the microbes, and then your topsoil is eroded, you know, uh, because there's nothing to but give structure to the soil. The microbes give structure to the soil. So that was my original vision. But after a few years, nobody was taking up in the uh in the way I wanted. Like I wanted everybody to take up and change farming practices and this and that, but it was not happening. So now I am becoming a farmer, or I have become a farmer trying to use the compost. So now I envision myself um expanding this to a larger scale and uh hopefully we become a center where people can come and learn. And for that we have to be successful first in the way we far. And if we are not, then I need people to come and remove the kinks in why I'm not successful. See, the the concept of what I just said is established, but it's not even a guess, like right, like for example, if you see that big tree behind you, every year it makes new shoots, it makes new leaves, and it grows, and the park is getting you know wider without using any fertilizer. So, how is that able to grow? Because most of the farmers they'll say the leaves that fall are going back into the soil, and it is what's making the plant grow. But when you're growing corn, you're harvesting a lot of crop. So, because you're taking it away from the farm, you have to put it back in the farm, is the concept they have with their brain. But then the question is, then how is this plant growing every year? It should be the same size without new nutrients, without new fertilizer. So it it doesn't hold up. That argument does not hold up. In reality, a handful of soil has enough nutrients for one acre of land. But those nutrients are not plant available, they have to be made plant available. But if I send a soil sample for testing to a lab for farm, like a for the test soil for farming, they will come up with saying you have so much magnesium, so much calcium, so much potassium, this is deficient, that is deficient. They're only checking for the soluble part, not elemental part. So there is tons of elemental calcium. If you send the same soil sample to places where they do testing for rock quarries or something, they will say there is so much calcium in the soil, there is so much magnesium and everything, but it is not in the plant available form. So to bridge that gap, we need the microbes that do the work. And how do we do it in a commercial level is what we are studying. And I think it's doable. And then once it's done, we want to expand this to other farms to teach people, uh, do studies in farming and health at the same time. So that's my bigger vision now.

Reshma Vadlamudi 4:32

And the science that convinced you behind it. Yeah.

Dr. Nanda 4:37

I mean, you know, for me, it was um what do plants need to grow? Water. There's plenty of water, especially in Ohio. I know in West Coast they struggle for water, so that's a different topic for a different time. Air. We have enough carbon dioxide in the air. You know, actually, if anything, we are talking about excess carbon, right? Yes. So that's again a huge topic in itself. We can talk on a different day. Sunlight, so far there is plenty. Now we want to block sunlight and do this and that and all that craziness. That's a different topic for another day. What is the fourth component?

Reshma Vadlamudi 5:15

So the minerals. Minerals.

Cutting Chemicals And Testing Soil Life

Dr. Nanda 5:18

So that's where the problem is. So if plants are deficient in certain minerals, they get diseases. So we go into this spiral. Now to prevent disease, you have to spray. But if we fix the minerals, then everything is there. So when I realized that, that's when I said soil and the microbes that give minerals to the plants is what we need to do.

Reshma Vadlamudi 5:43

Usage of your pesticides, the fungicides, and all those good. So, what were the first changes that you had to make on this land to support the soil first approach?

Dr. Nanda 5:53

Get rid of all the chemicals, no chemicals, no pesticides, fungicides, or like fertilizer, no chemical fertilizer.

Reshma Vadlamudi 6:03

Yeah, got it. Walk us through the soil testing process. What are the metrics that are important to you?

Dr. Nanda 6:08

So the things that I am checking is very difficult to measure. So I usually take soil or my compost and then put it under a microscope, and I look for you know how many bacteria there are, how many fungus, how many protozoa, how many nematodes. And is it it does it look like aerobic or anaerobic microbes in there? And once it is aerobic, I'm happy. Most of our ground plants need aerobic microbes.

Reshma Vadlamudi 6:38

Okay.

Dr. Nanda 6:39

So when they put uh manure directly straight into the soil, the reason it is not good is because guts are anaerobic. There is no access to air in the guts of the animals. Yes. Or for us for that matter. So that's why you cannot just directly put straight. But most of the cattle farmers here, they put directly without knowing why it is good or bad. A lot of organic farms now use uh chicken manure. They go to uh egg uh laying place or chicken place and they connect all the manure and they put one or two tons per acre of that.

Reshma Vadlamudi 7:17

So that's but that's all anaerobic. Yeah, that's what I was saying.

Dr. Nanda 7:20

So over the years, the yield will not be that great. Initially, it will be okay because along with the manure, you're also putting nitrogen and the other chemicals that the chicken ate and pooped. But over the years, you're not building the ecosystem of the soil.

Reshma Vadlamudi 7:37

Okay.

Dr. Nanda 7:37

And that's the shift I I'm hoping that I can make and actually prove in a practical way. But even if it is not practical, even if I fail, I want us to come together as a human intelligence and make a way of putting that microbes back.

Manure Myths And What Real Food Means

Reshma Vadlamudi 7:55

The diagnosis is also going up too. Yes. And uh most of them are trying to grow things at home, but then they just don't know what's the right thing to do. Right.

Dr. Nanda 8:05

There is also a thing called eat dirt for autism, where people encourage them to eat dirt. So they change their microbiome. But the thing is you can't just eat any dirt.

Reshma Vadlamudi 8:17

Yeah, the dirt doesn't have anything, even if you eat it. It is like it is really dirt, it's not soil.

Feeding Billions Versus Wasting Food

Dr. Nanda 8:22

You know, we you know distinguish dirt is just the chemical material. How do you define real food? Real food is what nourishes our body. Nourishment is real food. You have to, you can't have the same nourishment nourishing food in Arctic in Alaska versus uh you know India or Sri Lanka or Nepal or Bhutan or America. So things that nourish us is the real food. So what nourishes the food that we are eating should be good, which is the soil. But if you go to Alaska, it is mainly seafood. So what goes into that is a different ecosystem. Yes. And that's the key. So I say the less tainted the food is, the better it is. The less we interfere with the food, the better it is. But here is the argument always. How are we going to feed 7 billion people? Do you know how many hungry or 8 billion? How many hungry they they take a picture of Somalia where there is no food. So that is how they convince you that there is no food. Yeah. I'll tell you the contrary. When they have excess strawberries, you know what happens to the excess strawberries? They are they are thrashed. In Florida and other places. Because if you put out if you flood the market with that, then you won't even make the money you put it in. So they destroy the food so they can keep the supply and demand in balance. You know, I work at the hospital, right? There are so many plants over there. All the plants, none of them make fruit because they are made in a way they cannot bear fruit. And that's just for show. You know, in India, where I am from, they don't plant any plant which has no use for it. Like it's gonna be a guava or a mango, and then you share with neighbors, or it's gonna be in something that makes a flower that you can put to God or pray or make a garland out of it. Nothing goes waste. But in the US, they made sure that you cannot eat from your own backyard. Now I heard in Dallas there's some communities where you cannot have fruit tree. You know why? Their logic is if you have a fruit tree, then you'll get rodents. Like, this is crazy, this is ridiculous. That is how the communities are these closed gate or whatever communities they call are formed where they restrict you from putting a fruit tree. Come on. Wow, because you will get rodent.

Reshma Vadlamudi 11:10

I'm like, and they'll be spraying them so heavily too.

Dr. Nanda 11:15

With all the chemicals, and it is going to end up in your own backyard, and then they'll put a tag, no playing for two days. After two days, what's happening to that chemical? It's still there, but they just have to put to protect themselves. We have to come together as a whole society. They say when 4% of the society changes, the whole thing changes.

Strong Plants Reduce Pests

Reshma Vadlamudi 11:37

It's just 4%. I know that you are not using any pesticides or synthetic fertilizers on this farm. So, how do you deal with crop damage, pests, or plant disease?

Dr. Nanda 11:50

So, plant disease and pests come in the same. The diseases come because they are weak. So, when your microbes are good and providing the plant what they need, the plants are strong. So the diseases won't come.

Reshma Vadlamudi 12:04

So, how long do you think the plants would take to get stronger? Let's say this is year one and then year two. How long do you think that would take?

Dr. Nanda 12:13

It depends how aggressive you are in regenerating your soils. So we make so much compost that we can regenerate, I would say, 5,000 acres every year. Where we are having trouble is how do we put that product onto the ground? So we bought a bunch of uh fertilizer spreaders that spread compost instead of fertilizer. So we are trying to use the technology that is used for fertilizer and try to make it work for what we do, which is compost.

Reshma Vadlamudi 12:50

So we don't have the technology to spread whatever you have in this current market.

Dr. Nanda 12:56

In this current market, it is lacking, it is not built for compost or self-sustaining things, you know. But I hope more uh manufacturers come along to take up this and make tractors and spreaders and sprayers that will work for this. See, for example, when you're using a chemical spreader, it's there. I don't know if you can see it. Maybe the tree is blocking.

Reshma Vadlamudi 13:29

Recognize it.

Farm Equipment That Damages Microbes

Dr. Nanda 13:30

It's a big sprayer. It has a tank, like 500-gallon tank, and it's 90-foot boom that you just spray chemicals. So initially you spray Roundup to kill all the weeds. Okay, and then you come and then you seed into it, and then you may spread uh nitrogen fertilizer or thing using the same boom spreader. But when you're talking microbes, they are living organisms. So them boom sprayers all have these um uh what do you call uh filters? So when they go through those small filters, these microbes get squished up and damaged. So we remove the filters. And when you remove the filters, how do you maintain the same pressure and this and that? And it clogs the pipes because it is material, you see? Yes, it is living material, and how do you not like how do you clean up after so it doesn't go anaerobic versus aerobic?

Reshma Vadlamudi 14:31

So those are all the issues that you are running into running into.

Dr. Nanda 14:35

And that is where I need engineers, I need microbiologists, I need any help I can get to say, hey, you know what? This is easier, this is the way it can be done easily. This pump will work. You know, some are uh piston pumps and some are like these fan pumps. So when you're putting these microbes or living organisms through that, you don't want them chopped up, you see? Trying to figure out all these processes and what works and what doesn't work.

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:05

Okay, but you know, so mechanical engineers with some kind of farm equipment background is and electrical also. And electrical. And electrical.

Dr. Nanda 15:13

Okay, because uh there is all these different valves that are maintaining how much flow rate and all that stuff.

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:23

Okay, so everything. So you have the compost, but then we are still working on how to spread that. How to use it, yes, and then once we are able to spray that efficiently, how long do you think the plants or trees will be? One season. One season 100%.

Dr. Nanda 15:41

We have studies to show that. Okay. So compost is the bulk part, like the solid part. We have equipment that extracts microbes into liquid form.

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:50

Okay.

Dr. Nanda 15:50

It's called compost extract.

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:52

Okay.

Dr. Nanda 15:53

Some also call it compost tea.

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:55

Okay.

Dr. Nanda 15:55

There is a fine difference between extract and a tea, but we don't have to go into that. Okay. And then we also sell that.

Reshma Vadlamudi 16:01

Okay.

Dr. Nanda 16:02

It's a, you know, we sell like in 225 gallon totes. Some people have come with the 10-gallon tote and they fill it up and they go home and then just use it on their backyard or whatever.

Reshma Vadlamudi 16:13

Yeah, yeah. Okay. What does the crop E look like when you prioritize soil and avoid chemical inputs?

Dr. Nanda 16:21

It should be good. I don't know yet because this is our first year.

Reshma Vadlamudi 16:25

How do you ensure your crops stay resilient in the face of climate issues? Like that or unpredictable seasons.

Gut Microbiome, Prebiotics, Hydroponics Limits

Dr. Nanda 16:32

Actually, that is another reason to go regenerative. Because over yons, over millennia, right, there have been changes temperatures and the seasons, right? And that is how our microbes have evolved to serve a different condition, right? So that is why you cannot have one mantra for the same thing. You know, you can't say, oh, nitrogen fertilizer, no matter what. When it rains heavily, it's going to get washed out, right? Which is why we are getting all these chemicals in our uh creeks that end up in big uh ponds or lakes or rivers full of chemicals. So, all the more reason to combat the changes in weather you have to use microbes as your ally.

Reshma Vadlamudi 17:32

Yeah. Do you see a connection between how food is grown and the raise in chronic illness in the patients? 100%. There's not even a question.

Dr. Nanda 17:42

100%.

Reshma Vadlamudi 17:43

Yeah. It's about the pesticides killing the microbes. Right.

Dr. Nanda 17:48

And you eating food that doesn't have and doesn't have the nutrients that the microbes were providing the plants. And your microbiome is directly dependent on these microbes. So it's like three or four ways it affects us.

Reshma Vadlamudi 18:05

Yeah, so it is starving your own microbiome too. So what happens? What happens when our microbiome doesn't see any food that is valuable to it? What happens to our microbiome?

Dr. Nanda 18:17

So it's like what do you feed is what's going to be in your body. So that is the prebiotic. That is the prebiotic. If you don't give good prebiotics, so good prebiotic. So if you're eating junk food, whatever thrives on the junk food is the microbiome you harbor that will predispose you to the diseases. You know, we have 40 trillion cells in a human body that are human cells that have human DNA and stuff.

Reshma Vadlamudi 18:44

Okay. So what would you say to people who believe food is healthy as long as it's organic and non-GMO?

Dr. Nanda 18:51

So let's get to hydroponics. You know what is hydroponics?

Reshma Vadlamudi 18:54

I have a basic idea, I guess.

The Missing Elements In Modern Nutrition

Dr. Nanda 18:56

So they use continuous uh there is also aeroponics, but the concept is the same. They have these vertical gardens, which is completely enclosed. They don't let even a single pest come from outside. Yes. They feed the roots either through air and moisture, yes, with the chemicals they put it in that makes a plant give a fruit. So you see a tomato, organic tomato, it will say or aeroponic or hydroponically grown. Okay. Okay. So the question is does it have enough nutrition? So you so you the plant cannot make zinc or manganese or molybdenum or whatever element that it needs to put it in the tomato. But it will make a tomato because it has enough to make a tomato. But is making having enough is the same as having everything that a tomato can harbor, is the difference. Yeah, so here is where the censorship comes. When I Googled how many elements a plant needs 10 years ago or 80 years ago, it used to say 40 or 42. It depends. Okay, now if you Google it, you will only say 20. It gives the macronutrients and the micronutrients, and the micronutrients it will say maximum 20. But there are older books that will say you need 40 or 44 elements from the periodic table for a healthy plant.