Skip The 50K Zoom Call And Buy The Duplex | Luke Nelsen | Part 5

This episode isn't about scaling or strategy.

It's about what it actually costs - personally, physically, relationally - to build a business that's supposed to give you your life back.

In Part 5 of our conversation with Luke Nelson, co-founder of The Refresh Collection, we move past the deal, the renovation, the systems, and the branding into the part most operators don't talk about: the sacrifice, the wellness, the parenting, and the question of whether any of it is actually worth it.

We cover: 

• Why He'd Take Action Over A $50,000 Mastermind Every Single Time - And How The Cost Of A Mastermind Is Often The Same As A Down Payment On A First Deal 
• The "Who Not How" Trap: Why He Believes You Have To Do The Reps Yourself First Before You Can Manage Anyone Else Doing Them 
• How To Vet A Mastermind Before Writing The Check - Look Up The Google Reviews On The Properties They Actually Own 
• His Rule For OTA Dependency: "Don't Build Your House On Somebody Else's Land" - And The Specific Guest Experience Problems That Otas Create When Guests Don't Know It's Self-Check-In 
• Work-Life Inclusion, Not Work-Life Balance - Why His Kids Are On Job Sites Putting In Light Bulbs And Delivering Boxes, And Why That's The Only Model That Works For His Marriage 
• The "I Need You Home" Phone Call Mid-Renovation - And How He Reframes That Moment Around The Why Why The Gym Three Times A Week Is A Non-Negotiable, Even During Renovation - He Gets A Gym Membership In The Renovation Town 
• The Handwritten Fitness Journal: Reps, Weights, Calories From His Watch, Workout Rated One To Ten, No App - And Why He's On His Second Book 
• Food Philosophy As A Family: Organic, Dye-Free For The Kids, Longhorn Beef From His Brother-In-Law's Farm, Less Than Ten Ingredients On The Label 
• Vitamins And Supplements: Vitamin D, K2, Magnesium, Fish Oils, Creatine, Protein Powder, Amla - Based On His Primary Care Doctor's Guidance 
• One Parenting Value: Get On The Floor And Play Barbies, Say The Wrong Thing, Get Corrected Fifty Times, And Do It Anyway 
• The Biggest Sacrifice: Five Years Of Not Being Able To Fully Unplug - And Why He'd Still Choose It Over Sunday Night Dread

If you're building something with a partner, raising kids during it, or wondering whether the delayed gratification ever actually arrives - this conversation will feel familiar.

This isn't a highlight reel. It's a practical breakdown of how real businesses actually get built - under pressure, not in hindsight.

Chief Milestones is a video podcast featuring honest conversations with founders, parents, and investors about building real businesses, staying healthy, and raising families.

New episodes release Tuesdays and Fridays.

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Transcript

Action Over Fear

Luke Nelsen 0:00

I think action is the number one thing that people need to do. Um, I think certain people join those almost kicking the ball or kicking the can um because they're afraid to

Mentorship Versus Going Solo

Luke Nelsen 0:12

take action.

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:12

How do you decide when it's time to invest in a mentorship or community versus just grinding it on your own?

Luke Nelsen 0:19

Anytimes there are any sort of like turmoil or stressful moments, like you gotta dial it back to that why. And you you can't always have the right answer at that right moment of like something tactical you can do because you're you're away from home sometimes. The the whole concept of wealth is completely useless without health, right? So that's kind of the the basis of everything.

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:43

So, what are the biggest sacrifices you're making right now to build this business?

Stop Relying On OTAs

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:49

I would say it's definitely what would you tell a new boutique hotel owner who's stuck depending on the OTAs?

Luke Nelsen 1:08

I would say um get away from that as quickly as you can. I mean, if you've ever had to deal with the customer service from those OTAs as a host, it's terrible. Um, and and you you do not want to build your house on somebody else's land, as they say. Um it's uh they're very guest centric, I will say. And and you're you're limited to how you can even write descriptions of your own property. On I mean, they take what your inputs and they have AI like write a property, you know, description for you that isn't even always what you'd want to put out there for your property. You know, we have guests show up that are booked through OTAs, not even realizing it's self-checking and asking where the front desk is, and then leaving us bad reviews because there's no staff on site. I don't want to have to deal with that. So that's that's when getting back to branding and marketing. Um draw I would drive as much traffic as you possibly can um through your website, and that gets back to don't have a crappy website. I mean, you look at a lot of these places that you're competing with, and at least in our market, and I can barely even figure out how to book a room, much less what the room is going to look like, uh, which is great from a competition standpoint. But um, you know, I think you might need to take a second to look at your own place if you're not converting on your own website. And if there's probably some room for improvement either on your website or in your marketing, I can pretty much guarantee it that at least you need a landing page that converts well if it's not a full-blown, you know,

Website And Marketing That Convert

Luke Nelsen 2:49

website.

Reshma Vadlamudi 2:49

What's your take on masterminds? Are they worth it?

Luke Nelsen 2:54

Well, full disclosure, I've never actually paid for a mastermind. Um, I think that is very dependent on the person. Um, I'm not a person that needs my handheld to jump in and just take action and figure it out. I know that there's a large amount of people out there that they have, you know, fear and anxiety about taking a leap. And it is a big financial leap to buy, you know, a property like this, but um I personally would say it's not necessary for somebody to have success in this area um to join a mastermind. Um, nothing against people that do it. I think there's uh a need for it for some people. That's just not me necessarily.

Reshma Vadlamudi 3:40

Um and uh I think do you think there is enough information out there for someone to start the thing that they're looking for?

Luke Nelsen 3:51

100%. I mean, I I did it. I think you you did it. Um there's a hundred percent enough information out there, and you can go to conferences, so you gotta pay for those, obviously, but it's not twenty-fifty thousand dollars. I mean, I I look back at the beginning and I look at what our down payment was on a duplex or something, and half those masterminds are the same price as a down payment, which then inhibits you from taking action because then you don't have the money, and yes, I I've just that's just never been my um uh actually that's exactly how we thought about it.

Reshma Vadlamudi 4:29

Like when we first of all, I didn't know how much they would cost. I hopped on a call and then realized how expensive they were, and uh that's my first experience. Oh, okay, then I would rather get a house instead of whatever I'm about to take action on. That's I think this is a better much at least. That's what I would want to do. I I I also feel the same way that we have inf enough information out there to take the action.

Luke Nelsen 4:57

So I mean, think about if you if you would have spent fifty thousand dollars on a mastermind and then you couldn't afford the down payment for like we wouldn't have been able to first first deal. I guarantee I learn more in the trenches of you know, ripping out carpet and dealing with uh cat pee house, as I called it, than I would have learned from you know sitting on a Zoom call.

Reshma Vadlamudi 5:23

Um, you know, but then that's the that's the whole pitch these days, right? You don't have to be in the trenches to you don't have to be through these things. That that's the whole pitch.

Luke Nelsen 5:35

The whole pitch is just delegate everything, right? Like who not how, which I think is important, but I think there's a balance there, right? Like if I hadn't done how, then I wouldn't know how to talk to who, right? Like I wouldn't know how to talk to the contractors, and I wouldn't feel confident in their bids or how to tell them because contractors at the end of the day, they're order takers, right? So like it you have to do stuff for me personally. I have to do stuff to learn, right? There's certain tactical things that, yeah, you could you could probably learn from a mastermind. You know, if you're doing syndications, there's a lot of muddy waters you can get into, but I could also call an SEC attorney and I'm already gonna have to do that whether I use a mastermind or not, and they're gonna tell me the same thing that mastermind is gonna tell me. So I I I think action is the number one thing that people need to do. Um, I think certain people join those almost kicking the ball or kicking the can um because they're afraid to take action and they they want somebody to hold their hand. Um and if that's what you need and you still do take action, then then then props to you, and you should probably do it. Um that's just not me.

Reshma Vadlamudi 6:51

And in uh and also if there is someone out there who just have that twenty thousand dollars or just those fifty thousand dollars, you don't really need to be in there. Uh you can also do it just for yourself, yeah. Like um, because there are so many masterminds out there, and then how it's turning out to be these days is if you're not in one of those things, maybe you don't really have all the information that you need to jump on the for that first deal. That's how they make it seem yes, so I I feel like even though someone doesn't need that hand-holding thing, then now it's becoming like everyone is in a mastermind. I am the only one that's not in a mastermind. So there should be something wrong with me.

Luke Nelsen 7:39

Yeah. So I I feel like the the pushers of people that say you need a mastermind somehow have a mastermind to sell you. You know, and and and and props to them, good marketers and and and whatnot.

Reshma Vadlamudi 7:55

But I love I love the sales part of it. I love that they're making money out of it, and I love that it's a good income stream for them. And uh who were in like 20,000, 50,000, and most of these things are one-time payment. Um but I I think from the we are just talking it from the consumer perspective. Like if I were to join a mastermind and I only have 20,000 to either take action or go buy this mastermind, I would rather go take that action.

Luke Nelsen 8:32

Yeah, 11 out of 10 times, I would say. Yes.

Reshma Vadlamudi 8:34

So I think we are just talking from the consumer perspective.

Luke Nelsen 8:38

And

Masterminds And The Real Value

Luke Nelsen 8:39

yeah, and I would also say from a consumer standpoint, if you are really considering one, uh, don't be afraid to ask them for all the properties they own and what they're called, and look their Google accounts up for you know what those properties are actually, you know, what are people saying about the properties that they're actually, you know, their customers are saying about their properties? Because it's not always what you're gonna expect. You know, you're about to write somebody a check for 40 grand. How about you look up their properties on Google? Just do it once and and uh see how the reviews are and and it might change your mind.

Reshma Vadlamudi 9:17

Yeah. How do you decide when it's time to invest in a mentorship or community versus just grinding it on your own?

Luke Nelsen 9:26

Yeah, I would say for me, I'm just always been a natural networker and just I just ask questions and I leave ego out of it. I don't care if I sound stupid, even if I'm at an event in front of people. And I just you just gotta be you gotta be curious. And I don't know if there's necessarily a time to know when to take mentorship. I think the most annoying thing that I will say

How To Vet Paid Mentors

Luke Nelsen 9:50

of people ask is like, can I just have a minute of your time or can you mentor me or something like that? What as you get busier and you do stuff like this, you just your time gets a lot more valuable, right? So uh if you are trying to approach somebody for a mentorship, maybe just add something of value, like some people have offered or have actually like help me with demo, or you know, like help me with demo and you're around you and they're helping you unload trailers, and the you know that that's a that's a way to jump in and actually be around the action. Um, but as far as I'm concerned, um, I've never like sought out like, oh, I need this mentor. If I see somebody that is living a lifestyle or doing something that I'm interested in, I'm just trying to have a natural conversation, um, have a natural conversation with them and um, you know, also be willing to help people too, because you know, it's easy to get busy now and you know somebody reaches out and asks for help and you're like just too busy. But then I have to think back five years ago to the people that did take the time to you know help me. Um, and I'm you know forever appreciative of that. And you know, I just had a call with somebody earlier this week doing their first deal that I was describing, um, their first resort. And I don't I didn't probably could have charged for an hour call, but like I'm just genuinely you know, wanting to help people versus you know, pay me 10 grand and I'll help you. And it's just all pre-recorded stuff or spreadsheets that I'll give you, and I don't have the time to actually talk to you. Yeah, it's just not my business

Renovation Stress And The Why

Luke Nelsen 11:29

model.

Reshma Vadlamudi 11:29

How do you protect your time and energy while managing a renovation uh business and business? So especially with the family.

Luke Nelsen 11:37

Yeah, so it's definitely uh definitely a balancing act. Um, I mean, when you're in the trenches of a renovation, like it it's uh very draining, uh, especially with kids and uh and a wife. And a lot of for me, like these projects aren't right in my backyard. I can't go home, you know, every night. Um, and it's it's it's tough. Um, and you have to keep contractors happy, you have to keep yourself happy, you have to keep your wife happy, your kids happy, your business partners happy, the banker happy, uh, everybody, right? And it's just like a giant balancing act, all while there's massive chaos going on, and and nothing ever goes direct, you know, directly to plan or exactly to plan. So uh there's definitely it's not a science. I would not say that it's a science, but I would say that um especially in a partnership, both with the spouse and business partner, know each other's strengths and weaknesses and know what each other needs. Like if if you know, when I'm gone, like I have to talk or FaceTime with with them every day, and you feel bad because the kids are screaming, you can't help, you know, because you're three hours away. Uh it's just for us, um, you know, we we I mean we had moments during this this last one, even where it's like she's like, I need you home, or you know, Katie would say, I need you home. It's like I I want to be home. I but at the same time, like let's let's zoom out a little bit. Like, why are we doing this? Right. Like, we're not just renovating this to say we renovated it and put it on social media. And you know, we're doing this to be able to go sit by the pool on a Tuesday afternoon, you know, like let's keep that, let's keep that vision uh light at the end of the tunnel um there uh not lose sight of like the why, right? So um anytime there are any sort of like turmoil or stressful moments, like you gotta dial it back to that why. And you you can't always have the right answer at that right moment of like something tactical you can do because you're you're away from home sometimes, um, at least me specifically. Um, but having that dialogue and the just the mutual understanding that like we're doing this, it's it's it's delayed gratification, right? So like this sucks right now. Yes, it sucks, I get it. But just think about you know June or July or whatever when this is done and we're able to spend the whole week together, just go, you know, spur the moment, go to, you know, vacation somewhere or something. Like that's what the that's what the why is, and that's what that's what the you know motivation needs to be.

Reshma Vadlamudi 14:23

Yes, yes, and then we all have those phases where it's just work, work, work, work, work, and nothing else other than that. And there are times where you can take as much time as you want with the family, and then you're like, okay, now I'm bored of this thing, let's go get something else, right?

Luke Nelsen 14:41

Exactly. So ebbs and flows, yes, because like right after the renovation, you're always like, Oh god, I'm never gonna do that again. Yes, and then like a month or two goes by, and you're like, Okay, well everything is too peaceful now, yeah. Like we gotta we need we need something else.

Reshma Vadlamudi 14:56

We need more chaos in our life now.

Luke Nelsen 14:58

Yeah, let's look for another deal and just keep doing it, and that's how this last five years has been.

Parenting Through Work-Life Inclusion

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:03

How do you manage parenting while in the thick of construction, the travel, and opening the hotel?

Luke Nelsen 15:09

So yeah, so the parenting portion. Uh I I subscribe to the I don't believe in work-like work-life balance. I think we've talked about this. It's more work-life inclusion. So you'll see the kids on all our social media videos, putting in light bulbs, delivering boxes, all that sort of stuff. And and uh we do like to involve them and everything. They can't necessarily be there when it's a dangerous job cycle nails all over the place, but there's a balance. We they're we're not afraid to talk about money with them. We're not afraid to talk about what we do with them. Um, they understand uh why we're doing it. I mean, there's some days where it's like I feel like I'm on my phone all day and the kids are pulling on me and I'm like, you know, something's broken, and I there's a fire that you have to put out, and I have to explain to them like I could be at a job all day where I'm not home doing this, right? But like I you're seeing me do it, but like I'm I at least I'm here physically with you, yes, and we can have dinner together every night and we can talk about this stuff, as opposed to, you know, you're you know, working a regular nine to five, which is you know, you realistically there's no nine to fives, it's seven to six or seven to fives, you know. Yes. Um, and and we're not in that situation. And they get it as much as a five and a three and a well, one year old doesn't get it, but uh can understand it, but um they understand the business. Um, they're growing up in it, um, and uh and we involve them, you know, it's work-life inclusion. Um and I fully believe in in doing that. And I think for me, that's the only way that we could make this work because if it was Katie with the kids and me doing the business, like uh we would probably not last.

Reshma Vadlamudi 17:01

Yes. So it's the inclusion bringing everyone together onto this thing. Yes. Okay. Are

Routines That Keep You Sane

Reshma Vadlamudi 17:12

there any structures or routines that you guys follow during these big projects?

Luke Nelsen 17:17

I'd say it's just staying consistent, right? Like I've been uh in positions before uh when we first started where you you're all in on the business and you you lack in health or spiritual whatever. It has to be consistent. So, you know, the gym routine, um, you know, three times a week, that's a non-negotiable for both Katie and I, um, which lays the groundwork for, you know, you know what you have to do every week, and and uh it it just uh builds routine, right? And in routine, there's some sort of normalcy. Um, so I mean you talk about this, you know, working up in in Door County, like we keep talking about. I I got a gym membership to the gym up there. So like I had a gym to go to, you know what I mean? Because it's part of my sanity, you know, and my routine. So um, you know, trying to keep some sort of normalcy. Um you can easily get into the routine of which I've been guilty of it too. You work till 6, 7 p.m. at night and you just go to the local burger joint every night. Like try to as much as you can, like avoid that and have actual food in the wherever you're staying, um, and just not let your health decline throughout a project because it's it's hard to sometimes that's hard, yes, especially when you have this renovation thing going on, and then it's sometimes hard to plan your own food. Yes, it's it's very hard. That's why Katie's a saint, and every time she would come up, she would you know leave actual food in the cupboards in the fridge, otherwise that would be me, you know, at the wherever bar eating burgers every night, which isn't good for anything.

Reshma Vadlamudi 19:05

Yes.

Food Standards During Busy Seasons

Reshma Vadlamudi 19:07

And um, okay, so what's the food philosophy as a family and how do you stick to it during the busy seasons?

Luke Nelsen 19:15

Yeah, so I would say Katie does a really good job of that part of our life for sure. She listens to all the you know health podcasts. I think you've given her a bunch of them. Yeah. Um, and she's she's very good about reading the ingredients label and paying a lot of extra money for real organic food, which is insane how much food costs. Just even crap food is expensive. But you try to get anything organic or with less than 10 degrees or 10 ingredients in it, it's like incredibly expensive. So our food bills have gone significantly up. But she um she's done a really good job of sourcing, you know, dye-free stuff for the kids, um, all organic, all that kind of stuff. Our uh brother and sister-in-law have a longhorn farm, so we get a lot of meat. Yes, we get a lot of meat from them, which is we've seen the actual cow, so like we know where it comes from, um, which is is uh good, you know, you're not getting a bunch of processed preservatives and all that kind of stuff. So we do our best. I mean, we're not perfect, but uh we're we're good most of the time. And we we're you know, we still go out and we still live somewhat normal life.

Nonnegotiable Fitness And Supplements

Reshma Vadlamudi 20:27

What wellness habits help you show up better as parents, partners, and entrepreneurs?

Luke Nelsen 20:32

What was the first part?

Reshma Vadlamudi 20:33

Um what wellness habits help.

Luke Nelsen 20:36

Wellness habits, okay. Yeah, I mean uh the the whole concept of wealth is completely useless without health, right? So that's kind of the the basis of everything. Katie, um she she my wife, she's um she used to be a personal trainer, so that that that's always been a big part of our relationship, whether it's hiking or or working out or or uh whatever um sort of exercise has always been ingrained as as part of our uh in one of our pillars. So um, like I said earlier, um strength and resistance training is uh is a big one for me. Um kickboxing uh is a big thing that we both do. Um but that's it's boring but consistent. I mean, it's three times a week that's the minimum. Yeah. And that can be 45 minutes. It's just the the routine of it um is is huge.

Reshma Vadlamudi 21:38

So yeah, that's the other one.

Luke Nelsen 21:40

The big thing that I I do that's probably um a little bit old school, but I um I have a fitness journal. It's actual not an app because I try to stay off my phone when I'm at the gym because it's like distracting. So I actually have like uh I write all my weights and reps and everything in uh actual journal, and I find it like gratifying. To like write it down and then I'll you know take the stats of calories from my watch, whatever, and like write that at the bottom and like rate the workout from one to ten uh at the end. Um and you can, you know, I've I'm on my second book now, and it's taken uh it took about a year to finish the first one, but you just track your reps and your weights, and you know, something something about writing it after each time. It's like okay, you're excited to write it. And you know, you look back at your weights before and they go up and your reps go up, and it's just um gratifying.

Reshma Vadlamudi 22:34

Yeah. Yeah. And one wellness practice you won't skip even during the chaos. Is it the gym?

Luke Nelsen 22:43

Yeah, the gym. Yeah, I mean, it's uh it's not just the gym, it's it's exercis dedicated exercise three times a week. Yeah, three times a week is the minimum. I mean, I'll try to hit four, but like um three times a week is the bare minimum. I mean, uh, whenever we do our goal setting, uh that's how it was written down three times a week. And uh the past two plus years, it's it's really been we've stuck to it. And uh both mentally and physically, it just you can tell feels a lot better. Um, feels a lot better. And then uh also vitamins too. I mean, um, based on feedback from my primary care doc, you know, taking vitamin D, K2, especially in the Midwest, like take a lot of vitamin D because we don't get it naturally because there's you know no sun for four months straight or whatever. So you take uh, you know, vitamin D, K2, um, all that kind of stuff, magnesium, fish, fish oils, um, creatine, uh, our protein powders. Um uh I think it's called AMLA is one thing that I take. And then uh yeah, just sticking to the

Parenting Values That Stick

Luke Nelsen 23:53

vitamin.

Reshma Vadlamudi 23:53

One parenting value that shapes everything you do.

Luke Nelsen 23:57

Uh one parenting value. Um getting on the floor and playing with the kids, you know. I mean, make making it a point to do that, even though I'm not gonna lie, I do not enjoy playing with Barbies. Like that's what my daughters like to do. And they always tell me exactly what I need to say, and I always say the wrong thing and I get corrected 50 times. It's not fun for me. But I'm just I have to, you know, I have to do it. You know, and that's just uh that's just it. And that that uh, you know, I always think back to when we first got into this real estate journey uh was when I was gone all the time, right? And I, you know, I miss out on an entire year, and that that kind of burned in my brain of like, okay, well, now even though we get busy in these busy seasons, like I have to take time to to do that, and and I could be better about it for sure, um, especially in the busy seasons. But um, yeah, just just just playing with the playing with the the kids and and like I said earlier, just including them in the the business. Uh there's that song called like I think it's called like she thinks we're just fishing or something like that. It's a country song where it's like uh it's it's a country song, basically. Have you heard this song? It's it you'll have to listen to it. So it's called like she thinks we're just fishing. And uh the kid thinks they're just fishing, but the whole point is that they're spending time together, whether catching fish or not, right? And that applies to our business, in my opinion. That's my version of fishing, right? It's like, yeah, you you help, you know, screw in light bulbs, you help you do all this stuff. Um, yes, and they think we're just fishing. Yes.

Reshma Vadlamudi 25:40

Yes. Okay. So what

Sacrifice Delayed Gratification Rewards

Reshma Vadlamudi 25:43

are the biggest sacrifices you're making right now to build this business?

Luke Nelsen 25:48

I would say it's definitely um delayed gratification and uh in the sense that I don't have the autonomy necessarily on a day-to-day basis to just pick up everything and unplug. Like I can't necessarily fully do that now. Um, that's why we're trying to, you know, build the infrastructure to have people around us to be able to fully unplug. It's very hard for me to be fully present all the time, just because there's so many different balls in the air all the time, it feels like. And it's been like that in you know, ebbs and flows, but uh for five straight years. Um, and it would be nice to maybe take a sabbatical or something, you know, to be able to have that uh time to unplug. I'm also just not wired in the sense that I can just like not do anything. Um, so I would say the biggest sacrifice is definitely just you know not being able to fully unplug. And I mean, that's part of part of the caveat of being in the business for yourself, right? Like that's one of the sacrifices that is kind of built into this. I mean, even if you're uh chairman of a board that of a business that you know you sold or something, like there's still responsibilities. Um, and you just, you know, do my best to to balance all that. Um, but yeah, that would definitely be the biggest sacrifice. And I think that's what a lot of people don't see. You know, they might think that everything is so awesome all the time for you. Um, but there are definitely it sucks sometimes. Like it's honestly, there's some days that it's like, oh man, like this isn't fun. Uh you know. But it it uh it all stems back to would I rather have three days of that, or would I rather every single day hate? I mean, I've been there, we've been there probably. Yeah, get in your car, you know. Sunday nights are like the worst, right? Like you think, oh, I gotta go to this stupid job that I don't really care about. I'm just trading time for money, and and that's the whole point to get away from. And and uh that's the ultimate goal. We did buy a fun car, not with that, not with that, but like at the same time, like you you hear, oh, middle age is now 37 or 40, or 30, what is it, 39 is technically middle age because the average life expectancy. Yeah, and I'm 34 and I'm like, oh crap, like life is short, but at the same time, you have to have a long version, you know, vision. Um, but you need to enjoy life also. Like, what's the point of all this work? Like, you do need to reward yourself.