Fear Is The Real Wealth Killer

This episode is about a $2,000 gap, a couple in tears, and a negotiation made with the seller still sitting at the table.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Lynn Schwarber - agent with Comey & Shepherd and investor in long-term and short-term rentals - breaks down how she handles risk, negotiation, and the emotional weight of other people's biggest financial decisions. If you haven't heard Part 1, start there: it covers how she went full-time in real estate in 2010, the year after the housing crash, with newborn triplets at home.

We cover: 

• Why She Pushes Back On "Pay Off Your Mortgage First" - And The Math She Uses Instead 
• The Exact Move That Closed A Deal Over A $2,000 Gap In Real Time
• What She Wishes She'd Done Sooner With Her Long-Term Rental Portfolio 
• Her Read On Whether Short-Term Rentals Are A Trend Or A Permanent Shift 
• Her Unfiltered Opinion On Today's Market - Buy, Sell, Or Wait

This is a practical breakdown of how a real operator makes decisions when the numbers and the emotions don't agree.

Part 3 is coming - and it's the one with the story from the closing table that has to be heard to be believed.

Chief Milestones is a video podcast featuring honest conversations with founders, parents, and investors about building real businesses, staying healthy, and raising families.

New episodes release Tuesdays and Fridays.

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Transcript

Fear And The Debt-Free Mindset

Lynn Schwarber 0:00

I feel like I've spent a lot of time in my adult life like trying to listen to my gut. People think I'm spontaneous, but I really feel like I spent a lot of time thinking about it first inside, and then I know when it's right.

Reshma Vadlamudi 0:11

Do you think fear is the biggest killer?

Lynn Schwarber 0:14

Yes. I think it's the unknown. I think it's fear. I think a lot of people want just the uh the comfort of Dave Ramsey is so popular, right? And his whole thing is no debt. Pay off your mortgage. By the time your house is paid off, you're too old to enjoy whatever. The numbers are killing your joy. At some point in life, you have to think it's not just about the numbers. Oh gosh. Yeah, it's way more work than long-term rent. I mean, last night at 11 o'clock, I was at one of my Airbnbs cleaning because my cleaning crew couldn't make it last night. So I was there. And I'm cleaning, you know, I'm not above it. I'll clean the toilets, I'm there cleaning, making beds. So it's definitely a lot of work for sure. But it's worth it. I get it. A lot of people are conservative and they want the peace of mind and no mortgage. I understand that, especially as you get older and fixed income. But I feel like if you've got, why don't you refinance? Take some equity out of that, of that house. You can take a hundred thousand out of it or whatever, put it into something else, have another asset, and now you're leveraging that. Now now you own a 300 another $300,000 property for that hundred thousand. And now that's going to pay for itself and it's just going to grow. Why let it just sit in that one property? You know, take the risk. But I think a lot of people are afraid and they're not as risky, you know, the risk, they're a risk of aversion, right? They they they don't want that scares people. Not everyone's as yeah, adventurous as you are. Yes. Yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 1:38

Yeah. So do you think fear is the biggest killer for most people? You don't even have to say business owners. Like there is a chance for someone to create real wealth.

Lynn Schwarber 1:50

Yes, yeah. I think it is. I think it's the unknown. I think it's fear. I think a lot of people want just the uh, you know, the comfort of just and you know, Dave Ramsey is so popular, right? And his whole thing is no debt to pay off your mortgage. And so, you know, and again, I respect that. I mean that that they they want that comfort and that um peace of mind, and I understand that. But but yeah, I do think that gosh, yeah, if they can just take a risk, take a chance, you know. Uh, there's so much opportunity out there to leverage that money that's just sitting there, you know.

Reshma Vadlamudi 2:21

Yes, everyone that's coming on to the podcast, everyone is big bringing up Dave Ramsey.

Lynn Schwarber 2:27

Are they well he's so popular and he's got a movement of people that do and sometimes it doesn't make sense.

Reshma Vadlamudi 2:34

It's only like it's I feel like it's making few people like giving more reasons to not invest the money. Yeah, if you have to like pay off everything and then eventually I don't think you'll even have time or energy, or something might happen, and you might never invest. Right. By the time your house has paid off, now you're too old to enjoy whatever. Yeah, I mean you don't even want to go out and like it's time right now for you to go out, have that Starbucks drink first thing, and then first thing first thing coffee.

Lynn Schwarber 3:07

But first coffee. Yeah, that's

High Risk Tolerance And Gut Calls

Lynn Schwarber 3:10

true. Yeah, and don't be afraid to take the risk, yeah. Um what do you think your risk tolerance is? Uh mine is pretty high. Yeah. I think I've taken some. I I feel like uh I've spent a lot of time in my adult life like trying to uh you know listen to my gut, you know, follow that voice, like okay, like to know when it's right and then just do it. Something kind of tells me that people think I'm spontaneous, but I really feel like I spent a lot of time thinking about it first inside, you know. Yes. And then I know when it's right. So I know when I walk in a property, this is it, I'm doing it now. And um, and I so I did that with with uh the Cozy B cottage. I did it with my second property in Mason, same thing. It came on the market. I was like, oh, ran to see it again, multiple offers, boom, I had to have it, you know, that day. And um, but I knew it was just the perfect, you know, it it had the front porch, the big backyard, and the four season, all the things I would want in my next Airbnb, and it had it. So yeah, I think uh yeah, it's risky because you never know. I mean, neighbors could complain, Mason could pass something that bans Airbnbs, or you know, like Westchester now has a moratorium, different places are cracking down and having rules, you know, restrictions. So there is that risk. Yes, but kind of risk.

Reshma Vadlamudi 4:22

Westchester did not ask that. I think they're holding on. Holding on. Okay. They've talked about it, and there's always the yeah, fear. It's just the fear, yes, yes, right now. Yeah. So yes, and also let's talk about that thing. What is it? You just mentioned, like, yes. Um, because it's like people think you're spontaneous, but you really are not spontaneous. It's because you are looking these things day in, day out, and then thinking about it, you know, reading about it, talking to other people who do it, getting ideas.

Lynn Schwarber 4:56

So it's kind of floating around in your mind. Yes. And then so then you know it kind of clicks when the time is right. Right. And then you do it. Yes.

Reshma Vadlamudi 5:03

And people definitely think you are like you just saw it. How do you know it? Like I think that's the thing where people think it's spontaneous, or you are being too crazy or to jump on it. But then it's not I think it's everything that's happening in your head before that point that no one knows about.

Lynn Schwarber 5:25

And you've done that too. I think you walk into a property and you get that feeling like, okay, this is I have a vision here. I can see what I can do with this, and it's in the right neighborhood and I know it'll work. And yeah, so you're not being crazy. It's all knowledge that you it's based on knowledge and expertise that you already know. And you know what you can do to the property. So, you know, so um I think so, but if if that's not your expertise, if you're an accountant or you're, you know, a waitress. I mean, you've got a work-a-day job where that's not your your specialty, it's scary. You're like, wow, I don't know if I want to do that. Is that gonna work? And and even me working with people, homebuyers, all the time, you know, you get and a lot of like engineer types, let's say, or right, and they're very analytical and they look at all the data. So they're afraid to jump in to anything until all the data is exactly right or the numbers have are right. And it's like, you know, the numbers are killing your joy, yeah, you know, at some point in life you have to think it's not just about the numbers. Uh, you know, is this purchase, especially when you're buying your own home? Is this purchase, even though it seems like you might be paying too much or things aren't exact? I'm paying more per square foot here than that house. Okay. Well, how do you measure joy in your life? You know, is it yes, and when you're in that house, are you gonna be happy? This is the school district you want, you love this backyard, whatever, you know, and that's how you measure your wealth and your happiness as a family. And um, anyway,

Joy And Emotion In Homebuying

Lynn Schwarber 6:50

so I think some people think too much, think themselves out of things, and then they kill their own joy. And yes, yes.

Reshma Vadlamudi 6:57

And also I hear you talking about like people should also look at it from the potential point of view. Right. Okay, this is something, do I like it, or do I like it and not want it, or maybe something along those lines? And then is there potential? Is there any upside to this? More upside, even if it's not an investment property. Is this where I see my daughter going to school to, or is this where I see my son going to school to? Or them making their childhood friends? Uh right.

Lynn Schwarber 7:28

Yeah, yeah. And it's a process. I mean, sometimes it takes, you know, losing a few houses and realizing I'm gonna lose out because there's competition and I better jump on it when I and not think so much. Um, I mean, you want to make a smart decision, obviously, but but yeah, at some point, um you know, buying a house is an emotional, you know, we we not talk about investment property, about your own home. It's an emotional decision. You know, we like to say it's a business decision and and uh, but it really is a lot of emotion tied in with that. Um, you know, and especially you deal with people downsizing. They lived in this house 40 years, you know, maybe a spouse has died and the widow is selling and you know, and now she's died downsizing into something smaller, a patio home. Um, so I deal with a lot of emotion, a lot of people going through huge transitions

First-Time Buyers In A Seller’s Market

Lynn Schwarber 8:15

in their lives. Yeah, you know, and and it's interesting to see how they navigate that. And young couples, I just had a young couple buying their first home. That's my favorite. Um, and we looked at several and they love this one. Multiple offers. By the way, the inventory is still low right now. So a good house that comes on the market is selling quickly and in multiple offers, a lot of times right now. Right now. So it's still a great market, seller's market. And it's really hard for young buyers, by the way. We can talk about that. Yes. Young buyers, you know, first-time homebuyers are having a tough time because the prices are so high. Yeah. Right. You know, they've really gone up. And so and first time homebuyers are having to spend, you know, in the 300s, you know, at least to get a starter home.

Reshma Vadlamudi 8:58

Yes, they were spending in what 200s, lower 200s.

Lynn Schwarber 9:02

I mean, now you know, now, I mean, yeah, you could get a cute house back in the day, you know, 10 years ago, maybe, maybe even less. Uh, you know, two, two hundred thousand dollars, a cute little ranch. Now you're looking at three fifty, you know, for something decent in a nice neighborhood. And even that it's hard to find. Yes. So this was a young couple I just worked with, and they they're buying in Lakota schools, and and it was multiple offers, and they uh they ended up getting the house, but it was, you know, we had to to do some little negotiation tactics at the very last minute because I knew we were in multiples. We saw their houses, they're like, gosh, you know, I really just want that first one. We have our offer on. I hope we get it, hope we get it. So I called the agent, you know, last minute, well, what's going on? And right then they were negotiating, they were sitting with the seller. And uh I said, well, look, um, we'll do, we'll add an escalation clause, escalation clause on the, you know, we'll we'll pay $1,100 over the highest offer, up to a max of this, whatever. And so, um, and we covered some appraisal gap, appraisal gap coverage. Because they're like, we don't want to lose it over $2,000. You know, and um she called back and I had her on speaker and she was like, Okay, well, that last that last conversation, seal the deal, you got it. And they were just, yay, you know, they're tearing up, and I'm tearing up and you know, just so so that never gets old, you know. Uh so there are things you can do to help someone you get that advantage when they're in those circumstances, which they often are in that price range of a house right now. But yeah, I feel bad for young people starting out right now. It's really difficult to get an affordable house.

Reshma Vadlamudi 10:33

They would let's say if you have an ideal flip, it's like perfectly done. And let's say it's modern, open concept, and if it's somewhere between 250 and 300, um you would say it would go off, especially in good neighborhoods like Lakota. Oh, 100%. Okay.

Lynn Schwarber 10:53

You can't find something like that under 300 in Lakota. Yeah. Or Mason or Sycamore, you know, certain school district. Yeah, everything is to buy it.

Reshma Vadlamudi 11:02

Yeah, you have to buy it real low and flip it. Um by factoring in everything.

Lynn Schwarber 11:08

And it's hard to find a good flip right now, as you know. I mean, investors are out there looking and uh there it's hard to get a good because uh judges, you know, years ago there were more and they were easier, but right now it's hard to find one.

Reshma Vadlamudi 11:23

Yes, that's that's exactly what we heard. Like we were at this networking event a couple weeks ago, and um there were two agents, like they they actually pretty much summed up whatever you just said. Like there are my clients are first-time homebuyers who were looking in 250 to 300 range, and they are willing to pay whatever it takes to get in that, and then they said like even it's because it's an investor meetup, everyone is like, I have a house, but it's full of grey, and uh the floors are not so pretty, just uh investor floors, and they were like they would take it for 300 and then put up to 50,000 of their own money and pay repaint it, refloor it, and all that. Right. And that's when I'm starting to understand like people want at a certain price point, and uh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

Lynn Schwarber 12:15

As an investor, if you can find those deals, I mean I know there's some people who specialize in going after people that are behind on their mortgage or an older person that is going to assist at living and the house is a mess, a hoarder house or you know, just a house. And if you can get in something like that and get it cheap and then clean it out and do basic renovation, um, yeah, there's some opportunity there to definitely because there's a demand, there's

Real Estate Agent As Therapist

Lynn Schwarber 12:40

a need for that kind of affordable housing for people starting out, especially. Yeah, yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 12:46

And how do you navigate these transitions? I understood the first time home buyer thing, but then let's say someone especially if someone's spouse has passed away or something. Yeah how do you how do you navigate this thing?

Lynn Schwarber 13:02

Well, it's funny when you go into real estate, you don't realize you also can become kind of a therapist too. You know, because like we said, it is an emotional time for people. This huge transition in their life. You know, they're either buying their first home, which is exciting, or maybe their family's growing and they're buying a larger home, which is exciting, but maybe it is something that's that's sad that they're have selling their home of 40 years because spouse has died and she's alone. And um, so for me, having been in TV news for so many years, and I was used to interviewing people on the worst days of their lives. You know, I was I would interview families when their son was just murdered or killed in in you know overseas or a fire or have so I so I unfortunately, you know, had many years of talking to people uh when they're going through really difficult times in their lives. So I I didn't realize that, but that actually would help me in real estate. Yes. Uh people felt comfortable with me, you know, they they trust me because of my you know experience in real estate, but then they also have to feel comfortable with you as a person, you know, to trust you and confide in you and know that you've got their um best interest at heart, you know. So yeah, you have to be a good human, I guess, and you know, know how to talk to people and and help them through. And and that's why, you know, it's it's about relationships, like we've talked about before. It's not just being smart business deal. You have to you have to really work on those

Big Deals And Early Lessons

Lynn Schwarber 14:30

relationships with people and hopefully you work with them and then their families through the years, and yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 14:36

Okay. What's the biggest deal you have ever closed?

Lynn Schwarber 14:39

And how did that happen? Okay, so um I guess my biggest deal was um I guess about a $1.6 million. I've sold, you know, several houses that were over a million, which is that's always exciting to sell a big, beautiful house. And this one was a former Homorama home. It had uh an amazing basement with a basketball court in it. Wow, it's where they dug down even deeper. Had a full court, full basketball, you know, court. And um, and it had a pool. It was beautiful. So yeah, it was in Carriage Hill. And so, and I've done a few in there that were really beautiful houses. Yeah, so uh they're always exciting to do. Yeah, you know. Okay.

Reshma Vadlamudi 15:23

And uh let's talk about people see the wins, but what's one early mistake you made in real estate that taught you a valuable lesson?

Lynn Schwarber 15:31

Oh gosh, a mistake in real estate. That's a hard one. I I think um I've been pretty fortunate. I think all of the things I've done have been, you know, pretty lucrative. Like as far as the properties I've bought and then sold and I've I've done well. I haven't made any huge knock on one huge mistakes or um so I don't know. I think I wish I had gotten into the short-term rental market sooner. I held on to, I had a handful of long-term rentals, which were fine, you know, made me a little bit of cash flow each month, maybe 300 here, 500 there from this one that way. And um, I wish I had maybe sold those sooner and got into the short-term rental market sooner. That would be the only thing.

Reshma Vadlamudi 16:16

Yeah, that's how I feel like about real estate in general. I wish we got into it earlier. Sooner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sooner. So I think that's with any property or any real estate deal. So yeah.

Lynn Schwarber 16:28

Well, and everyone's worried now about the tariffs and what's going to happen to real estate and you know, pricing and everything. And so we'll see. If we have any kind of crash happen or prices go down, then there's opportunity there. Just like you talked about in you know, in 08 when the crash happened. If you do have money and you're in a position and credit, you can buy, it would be a great time to buy if prices do go down. You know, buy some investment properties. Yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 16:52

So you would buy if you had money there. Yeah. Like, yes, yeah, I'd like to buy a couple more. You wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't be scared.

Lynn Schwarber 17:00

And uh real estate always comes back. I mean, look at what happened after the cr after the crash before. We everybody you know, I mean they they've just gone up and up. So if they come down again, they're gonna come back up. Yes. And especially if it's a rental, you're gonna make you're gonna, it's gonna, you know, more than pay for itself anyway. It's all always gonna come back.

Reshma Vadlamudi 17:18

If you had to restart today with no connections but all your knowledge, how do we how would you build your portfolio?

Lynn Schwarber 17:24

Well, I think I would jump right into the short-term rental market immediately. Um, and maybe get uh a four family as well. So I I mean that's I don't have a four family. I had a two family at one point, but um, yeah, I think uh I think that's it. Just some short-term rentals just because they've done so well for me. Yeah. Um would you buy it in a vacation rental market or would you still buy it? I just thought about that because I would love to have a place in Florida where I could go for the winters myself, but um, I was worried about managing that from far away because I know with my rentals here, I'm there a lot. I mean, I'm there a couple days a week. I do some of the cleaning myself sometimes. I'm very hands-on. So I would I'd be nervous about having a vacation, you know, rental somewhere. Unless I had a really good management company that could handle it, maybe I would.

Short-Term Rentals As A Long Game

Lynn Schwarber 18:15

Yeah. I'd look into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 18:19

I think there's definitely opportunity there for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So what's one piece of real estate advice that completely changed the way you invest? Oh, well, I yeah.

Lynn Schwarber 18:28

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I guess it would just still be that, yeah, reading that book, the you know, the rich dad, poor dad. I mean, just reading that just really changed the way I invested my money. That's when I started to take my money out of uh my retirement and put it into real estate instead. And I mean, I did the math and it just you make more money that way. You know, so you make maybe 10% or whatever in the stock market over time, but but I make way more than that, taking the same amount of money out, even with paying the 10% penalty to the IRS. Yes, you know, I'm paying taxes on the money. I still was making more, taking it out of there and putting it into short-term rentals. So Okay, yeah. Do you think Airbnbs are are a get rich quick scheme? Oh, I don't think it's quick. You know, I think that it takes a little while. I mean, yeah, you're gonna make some good money, but um, but I think it's it, you know, it's it's not a get-rich. I think that's it's really a long term. I think you want to hold on to these properties and and continue to collect over many years. Because there is a lot of upfront cost. I mean, usually you're renovating the property. I mean, just to furnish it with everything, I mean, you'll spend fifty thousand dollars maybe like getting just everything ready and done. So the first year, your year, first year or two, um, you might not see huge returns because it's a lot of expense. But um, so yeah, I think it takes a few years.

Reshma Vadlamudi 19:48

And also, even after the first two years, um, do you think it's more like your expenses are usually higher than your long-term rentals? Uh the way you have to keep up with the colours. Oh gosh.

Lynn Schwarber 19:59

Yeah, it's way more work than long-term rental. I mean, last night at 11 o'clock, I was at one of my Airbnbs cleaning because my cleaning crew couldn't make it last night. So I was there. Yeah. And I'm cleaning, you know, I'm not above it. I'll clean the toilets, I'm there cleaning, making beds. So, yeah, so it is constant work, maintenance, yeah, the upkeep, the cleaning, the managing, the you know, people coming and going. So it is, it is a lot of work. And uh, I run two of them myself, and it is a a a part-time job just to do those two, you know? Yeah, so yeah, yeah. So it's definitely a lot of work for sure, but it's worth it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 20:35

Yeah. Are you are you open to co-hosting? Like you are do you want to co-host, like in the sense, like I'm asking, you want to take up someone else's, like a property management kind of thing, or are you open? Possibly.

Lynn Schwarber 20:49

I've thought about that. So uh my daughter is a marketing major at UC and real estate minor. So she wants to get her real estate license. I'm gonna teach her how to manage my Airbnbs. I'm gonna so I was thinking that maybe eventually that's something that I could do with her, you know, because um it is a lot of work. So, but yeah, I'd be open to maybe doing that in the future. Okay. Co-hosting, man, helping to manage other people's Airbnbs. Yeah. Because people don't have time to do it themselves if they have a full-time job doing something else. Yeah.

Reshma Vadlamudi 21:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is short-term rental investing a long-term play or is just one more trend? Oh, well, I don't think it's I don't think it's a trend.

Lynn Schwarber 21:31

I think it's here to stay. You know, I think that people really want to stay in a in a home, away from home when they travel with their family, and they don't want a hotel sometimes. Like you said, it might be a few families staying together. You might have grandparents and a few, you know, the grand and they want to sit around the fire pit at night and roast marshmallows together and play games and and you don't get that at the hotel. So I think that that really is here to stay, the the short term rentals. And especially when you make them uh unique, you know, like there's so many really cool Airbnbs out there, right? That are, you know, um they really make them fun and a fun place to stay with your family and memorable.

Reshma Vadlamudi 22:11

And so and even now, like when we go out, let's say we go on a vacation, we never go to hotels now. All Maya or all my kids know right is staying at an Airbnb. Right. And even when they have to think for themselves, the first thing that would come to their mind is vacation is equal to an Airbnb. Right. She doesn't even know it's called short-term rental or anything. She says, let's say we are going for a conference and then her first question is like what Airbnb are we going to? So funny. Yeah. So like I I definitely don't think it's it's a trend but then I see people thinking this as like a get rich quick scheme or it's just that like the next thing that would go away or some you know and I think that you know when you have management companies that maybe own a lot of them it's less personal.

Lynn Schwarber 23:04

Like I like the individual owners like you have a handful you know I have a couple because I really put you know my heart and soul into these you put a lot of thought into how you decorate them and what you put in.

Reshma Vadlamudi 23:16

And you are willing to personalize things for them. So and yeah. Right.

Lynn Schwarber 23:21

Yeah so and I think people feel that and yeah I mean I have like in my my Mason one the Cozy B cottage I have bikes and they could just hop on the bikes and go to the downtown Mason and go to the coffee shop and the so there is there is that sidewalk that they can sidewalk yeah yeah and they could sit and have the fire pit at night with the cafe lights above

Buy Now Refi Later Plus Drama

Lynn Schwarber 23:40

and yeah so just that whole feel people love that. You know so that's not I don't I don't see that going away.

Reshma Vadlamudi 23:45

Yeah yeah okay so what's your unfiltered opinion on today's market? Should people be buying selling or waiting?

Lynn Schwarber 23:53

So today's market I know a lot of people are afraid right now because the economy is in such you know turmoil that the stock market has dropped and went up and then dropped again and who knows what's happening with the tariffs the interest rates are still lingering you know they still haven't dropped much they dropped a little bit they're actually at their lowest now since I think October but they're still like mid-sixes. So people have been waiting for so long for something to happen that now literally in the past two weeks this spring it has popped. I mean I think people are sick of waiting they want to buy a house and they're like you know what I'm gonna buy the house now and I really think you should six and a half percent or whatever. Really in the grand scheme of things historically that's not bad. If the rates drop eventually you can refinance. Go out, buy the house you want, refinance later if the rates drop I think it's the time to buy because I don't see that prices are going to uh go down anymore. I just see them going higher and higher. You know, I had clients who bought you know a year ago and they thought oh am I overpaying now? I feel like I'm overpaying and now they're glad they bought then because they've just gone up since then. Yes. So don't wait. What are you gonna do if you wait rent still and then you're then you're not have any equity and you're throwing money away. So no I do think it's a great time to buy now before yes and I just I I unfortunately I think um the prices are going to stay where they are or keep going higher. Yeah yeah and what's the craziest thing you have seen in real estate deal that no one talks about oh crazy things in real estate that's good well um we talked earlier about how real estate is an emotional you know decision and people are going through transitions in their lives and sometimes it's divorce and things like that. And um so you know I've had some drama I guess let's anyway some of that I guess that would be the craziest we had at at a closing table one time a guy came in with a woman who was pregnant and then another woman sat down next to him I didn't know what was happening so it was him and his wife soon to be ex-wife they were getting divorced selling their house and this was the the mistress who was pregnant with this baby. I hate to laugh but I mean you know that was probably that was some drama and that was some drama and that that closing so you get you know once in a while I had another client who's who called me literally two days before the closing and he's married I mean this is sad he's married young guy nice young couple and he said I just found out my wife's been cheating on me. I don't I don't think we should buy this house together. And we're two days before the closing and I was like oh my gosh well you know anyway we talked him off the ledge he ended up they bought the house I don't know what happened afterwards but anyway I guess they're the craziest things is you know just when you're dealing with people who are going through tough times and things are happening and that's more of the emotional personal side of it that can be crazy. But that's it yeah usually it's not that full of drama yeah