Season 3 | Episode 10 | Visibility Doesn't Pay the Bills. Strategy Does

In this episode of Fempire Rising, Trudy Heins sits down with Sarah Walden, Co-owner and Head of Marketing at Kumeū Media, a New Zealand-based marketing, brand and communications agency helping businesses turn visibility into measurable growth.

With almost 15 years of hands-on marketing experience, Sarah has worked with brands including BurgerFuel and Yahoo, served on the board of the IAB, worked both within and alongside leading Auckland agencies, and successfully built her own profitable eCommerce business.

Sarah shares her journey through traditional and digital marketing, explaining why consistent branding, clear messaging and strong calls to action are far more important than simply creating "pretty ads."

Together, Trudy and Sarah explore what it really takes to turn visibility into revenue. They discuss marketing funnels, email nurture sequences, website and eCommerce analytics, A/B testing, retargeting and abandoned cart strategies, highlighting how businesses can identify and fix the gaps that are costing them customers.

Sarah also shares practical advice for business owners, including why you do not need to be on every platform, how to choose the right marketing channels for your audience, the importance of owning your email database and why strategic marketing delivers better results than randomly boosting social media posts.

Whether you're investing in marketing yourself or working with an agency, this episode will help you identify what's working, what's leaking and where your biggest opportunities for growth might be hiding.

01:52 Sarah’s Marketing Journey

05:16 Small Business Quick Wins

08:01 Brand Consistency Matters

11:04 Why Visibility Doesn’t Convert

11:36 Funnel and Nurture Strategy

16:10 Metrics and Finding Leakages

19:26 Measuring ROI and Engagement

22:45 AI vs Human Brand Voice

24:01 Sponsor Break Vampire Academy

24:45 Back to Authentic Community Marketing

25:20 Stop Being Everywhere

26:06 Pick the Right Channels

27:18 Own Your Email List

29:13 Smarter Paid Social Setup

30:51 Outsource for Growth

31:49 Women in Business Foundations

33:40 Invest and Simplify Messaging

35:57 Common Marketing Mistakes

37:56 Build for the Long Game

40:43 Networking and Saying Yes

42:57 Optimism and Community Support

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Connect with Sarah Walden

Click here to join the FEMPIRE Academy and use the code JUNE50 for 50% off!

Click here to register for our next FEMPIRE Masterclass for practical strategies to gain clarity and take focused action in your business

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I think I just often tell clients like your email database is a build of gold. You can segment, you can create nurture strategies. Those people are probably sitting there waiting to convert for you. Absolutely. Instead, you're trying to scream out to the void over here. Yeah, of which who knows, you're running some meta-ads and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Welcome to Fampire Rising, the podcast for women who are serious about building strong, profitable, sustainable businesses. I'm your host, Trudy Hines, the CEO of Fampire, business coach and mentor. And here we are in season three. This season we are bringing you the women behind the infrastructure of business. The experts in marketing, finance, systems, strategy, visibility, and design who help businesses grow properly. Because building a business takes more than passion, it takes structure, it takes smart decisions, and it takes the right support around you. So if you're ready to think bigger, operate better, and build a business with real substance behind it, you're in the right place. Let's get into today's episode. Today I'm joined by Sarah Walden of Cumu Media, a New Zealand-based marketing and communications agency that Sarah runs alongside her husband. After leaving the corporate world, Sarah took the leap into entrepreneurship and has spent the past year building a business that helps organizations clarify their message, strengthen their marketing, and connect activity to actual commercial outcomes. In a world where many businesses are posting constantly but still struggling to convert visibility into revenue, Sarah brings a practical and highly strategic perspective on what that effective marketing can really look like. Sarah, welcome to Fempire Rising. Hi, how's it going? So before we start and we talk all things marketing, I'd like to understand a little bit about your journey. So could you please tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you into marketing communications and ultimately to launching your new business?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, so my journey started um over 10 years ago. I actually started out um in more business development, sales, and not long after being in that in that sort of world, I ended up falling a little bit into the media world and just loved the creativity of um marketing, especially digital marketing, which is where I where I began. I loved the creativity, I liked that it was measurable, I liked it just a very practical solution for businesses in terms of reaching their audiences.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

And it's such it is so wide and so widely accepted now. It's you know, it really is predominantly our only form of marketing these days. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yes, especially, yeah, 100%, especially for smaller businesses. And yeah, over time I sort of gained my knowledge and all things data, programmatic advertising, and then the more traditional realms of advertising, which as a marketing manager for a number of years also worked for one of New Zealand's most loved brands, Burger Fuel. I started up their digital marketing function and set the strategy and managed their digital marketing for them. And that was really exciting to be able to work on a big loved brand.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

That was just a very And yeah, you would hold that responsibility quite heavily, right? If it's got such a great brand in the marketplace, it's something that, as I said, you feel particularly responsible to maintain that.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, definitely. But it really helps when the customers are just such big advocates. They just are so excited for what you're doing next. It's a nice position to be in. And then I move through into the advertising agency world, really rounding out the experience of really understanding the full spectrum, how everything connects up, not just from a digital marketing lens, but actually being able to connect the dots between messaging and brand identity and creative and how everything sort of all fits together. I think what's been interesting is now this journey that I'm in now, running my own business, I kind of look back and can see how all of those skills that I've had and all those quite varying roles, it hasn't been a traditional trajectory, but I do think that that's put me in a position where I can actually do what I'm doing now. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

And I think that's ultimately often I find that the you know our listeners and the women that I coach and the women that come to coaching and and become a Fempy coach don't come here via a traditional, you know, pathway. They're however it's the experience that really lends them and it's the the different jobs that they do or the different tasks they've done along the way that builds out a complete picture which allows them to talk on so many different levels, which is so important these days because often you come out of university, you might have all of the theory down pat, but the reality of it is that there's no practicality behind it. So I love it when I see people that have had a potentially a more dotted journey, but it gives a better whole picture.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, definitely. And it's amazing with the number of small businesses that I work with now, or even small to medium-sized businesses, where you know, they can't necessarily afford to have say a full-time employees, a marketing manager, yeah, but the quick, actionable things they want, like tweaks to a website, they want a brand refresh, which isn't always cheap, but in the grand scheme of things for your business, it can really elevate and build your business a lot more in the long run. Or it could just be a little thing like, hey, can you get our social set up? Can we look at some Google ads, meta ads? It's all very practical tools that businesses can actually see some quick wins in.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

So And that's what they're looking for. Yeah, we talked before off mic around you know understanding that return on investment and you know the the challenges, particularly in that marketing space of I know it's a commitment, I know it's something I have to do, but I need to see like every other spend in my business, there's got to be a return on investment lens. And so if you can get those quick wins, at least then it encourages the business owner to commit further to go on that journey with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yeah, definitely. And for us, you know, we're based in Cumu, which is a little bit outside of Auckland, semi-rural, and it's been amazing connecting with not just businesses here, but lots of small businesses around the community who they want sort of that trusted partner to work with. And I think sometimes you forget how much knowledge you have. Like when my husband and I sat down and we were like, combined, we've actually got about 25 between the two of 20 years of experience, and it's really, really satisfying to sit down with someone and then go, Oh wow, I never thought of that. Or to me, it's it's just the way my brain works. It's like, well, of course that's what that means. But to someone who their specialty I've gotten, yeah, I may have no clue about, that's their bread and butter. But you realize like what little things can mean a lot to a small business.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Which is you know, as a small business is really important then to do your due diligence when you engage specialists because it's that anecdotal evidence and the things that you as a as a professional or you know, a specialist, and I come from a finance background, you know, I was a financial planner for 30 years. It's the things that you actually forget that you even know, and and when you're talking, it comes out and you think, oh my goodness. And but you can see the client in front of you go, Oh, no one's ever said that to me before. So it's that due diligence and that experience we is something that you should always be seeking and not it shouldn't be necessarily cost-based. And I think you're often newer providers come out, they don't price according to or they might price according to their experience, but sometimes that cheap price is actually not going to give you the service that you need.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

So yeah, yeah, and it's taking that leap. I think you know, we we might have someone come to us say, Hey, we just want to do some marketing. And, you know, we may look at their current branding or their current website, and then we go, Hey, you actually don't have an identity. There's actually no colour palette, there's no, I don't consistently consistent anywhere. You might have a road sign, you know, like a little that's stuck in the ground that has this, or there's actually no real logo, like it's just words. And I think it's better to do something than nothing as a business, better to progress over perfection for sure. But I think there's so much value in that consistent look and feel because like perception is reality. Someone will look and go, I don't know what you are, I don't know that is the problem, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, often and I've you know, I've had a few instances recently where I've somebody has approached me and said, you know, we want to work with Vampire or whatever that case may be. And I've gone on and I've looked on their website and I've thought, I actually don't know what you do. Yeah, I can't, I I can't get the gist, and you know, I've said to my AA Lou, like, can you have a look at this website and give me a bit of a and she's like, Oh god, I have no idea. Or, you know, we'll we'll have people and they'll have a website that's you know in this colour with this logo and this font, and then their newsletter that they're sending out is a totally different colour palette. You know, how is that going to resonate with people when they've got the consistency? We spoke to a lady who'd worked in marketing a couple of episodes ago, and she said, you know, it takes five to thirty-five touch points before people will actually recognize your brand. You might be doing 35 touch points, but you might put those in different different fonts and colours. It makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

So you're starting from scratch every single time. And that's one example I do use with clients where I say, you know, I've seen some very clever ads before. It might be a billboard when I'm driving somewhere out in the field and I go, I just read this really funny thing the other day. It said it was maybe a really quirky ad for a brand. And I go, couldn't tell you the brand. Couldn't you need the both these things, you need the brand associations because I don't remember who you are. Like I could see ads for it, could be say an electrical business, and I'm getting retargeted with 10 different electrical businesses on my socials, they all just blur into one unless they're just yeah, there's got to be a cut through there somewhere. There's got to be a cut through, and that's you know, your brand and that's your tone of voice, it's your color palette, it's all those things that need to show up consistently, and which is why McDonald's can have ads without their logo and with their colours and their font.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

They're an exception though, like and they do have a big marketing spend, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

They've got an enormous marketing spend. Yeah, they are almost not an example, but that's the power of brands.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

And and so I guess that was one of my questions is what you know, why do you think so many businesses might be visible? And they, you know, they are out there in the space, but they're not converting. So I've you know, consistency is one of them. Are there any other tips that you can give our listeners that potentially around you? Yes, people might look at your ads, they might be fabulous and they might be quirky, as you said, but realistically, they don't know a who you are, what you want them to do with that information if they absorb it.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So, yeah, I'll I'll leave that to you. Yeah, so yeah, it does link into what we were just saying. So I think, you know, especially when I'm thinking about the marketing funnel approach, it's you know, understanding the top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, bottom of the funnel. We we're getting that visibility out there, we're getting people to, you know, say, come to the website, and then we need to get them to convert. We need to actually say to someone, book now or inquire now, or download this now, and then through an email nurture strategy, send them on a series of emails to actually guide them. Like we actually need to tell people what the next step is because we think that people are just you're not the only brand or the only ad that they're absorbing. Like they're doing a million things at once, juggling families, juggling their own jobs, like there's a million things. And so I think people almost think it's not that they're being shy about it, but brands need to un well understand their audience, understand their target, they need to yeah, what's next? What's the next step? And keep keep guiding people to that step. And I think having a strong brand identity, having like a clear messaging framework, all of those things are really, really clear. And I think, yeah, on the converting end, I guess you've got to ask yourself the question like, well, where are where are people falling off along that conversion line? Is it that we're getting loads of leads and loads of people hitting our contact page, following the perfect path to purchase or the perfect funnel, they're just not converting. I think that they'll find the answers quite quickly if they can just see where these people are dropping off.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

And I think And I think that's in the analysis, right? Yeah, one of the things that I'm a real advocate of is if you have a website and your website is so I kind of look at it is that your website is your credibility piece. If you can be hand on heart, really say we've driven them to our credibility, our call to actions are really, really clear and it's not converting, and the analysis tells you all of that, you know exactly where that leakage is.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah, and I think a lot of the time it probably comes down to you know case studies, proven work, proven results. I think a lot of it too is outcomes. People are buying outcomes, they're not buying a meta ads manager. Well that well, they are, but they're actually what they're wanting to see is they want to grow their revenue by X percent. They want to see what's in it, generate this media, yeah, what for them, you know? Like anyone can put their hand up and say, Oh, yeah, I'll be, I'll manage your social media, I'll manage your meta ads, I'll create this strategy for you. But at the end of the day, the that client has a number in their head. It's being able to be to say to them, this is the outcome we can increase by this much, or we can grow your engagement by this much. Yeah, I think depending on where a business is at in their own journey, if they've even done their own business planning, I think, yeah, those are the outcomes that I think people are looking for. If there's not enough proof in the pudding, they'll just they're just not somewhere else that has got the proof in the pudding.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

And and that's what I always sort of say is that generally you are not the only person in the space that does what you do. You know, it's very unusual that you would be highly specialized. So people are coming to you and you know, they are looking for a solution to their pain point. They don't, you know, your credibility is about how I can solve that pain point. It's not about you feeling good and stroking your ego. So you've really got to understand why people are getting there and then what they actually are looking for once they get there, and show them how you can fix that problem. Yeah, that is gonna give you the best traction and potential conversion over anything else, over pretty ads and over, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

I mean, yes, I yeah, I agree. Yeah, and I was gonna say sometimes the problem they come to you with is not always the real problem. Sometimes you've got to I find you've got to ask some questions, yes, yes, and then they give you their real pain point, and you go, Oh, that's you know, I I want some meta ads and I go, Hold on a second. If an action is a social media strategy, or or why are you paying for social media? Why are you yeah, like obviously the outcome? I think the outcome could be better spent on we need to we need to look at your website to start with.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

I agree with you that it's understanding that pain point, figuring out is there something else going on that they're wanting because as you say, if that's not answered, absolutely so okay, so based on that, we've talked about the importance of the funnel and obviously your positioning and then you know how that flows through. And so you get to a point, you're at the bottom of the funnel, and we talked about the importance of then looking at the analysis of things because that will help you show where something may be broken if you're not converting into dollars. What metrics do you suggest that business owners be really across as far as you know their analysis?

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Yeah, so I would say, especially if you're looking at your say your digital advertising, be looking at well, actually we'll step back a little bit further. So, say for example, you've got all your ads running, your metrics running, say your Google Analytics account, you know, you should be going there and you can usually see the engagement on site, you can see where people are dropping off. I think a lot of people just they want to see all the little metrics and say the ad platforms, but they're not very clued on on what's actually going on on their website, like where are things dropping off. You know, if you're an e-commerce business, you know, you're looking at your conversion rates, you're you're looking at obviously the ROI on on all of your activity. Yeah, you're just you're essentially looking for leakages, you're looking for where things are anomalies.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yeah, even as simple as things, I guess, you know, like if you are an e-combo business where people are putting stuff into the cart and not checking out, you know, what time does that happen? What potentially can you do? You know, as we know there's a lot of then, you know, nurture sequences that come from that, you know, and you can have 10% off or free postage or you know, often the smaller business that I have worked with haven't thought that far. They might potentially know that you know they're seeing 50% of people put things in their cart at a particular time of the night, or you know, use that analysis and work out okay, if if I was that customer, what's the thing that might get me over the line? Is it our postage hospital costs are too high? Is it you know that I don't know a lot of people will actually wait now for the 24 hour 10% off? Yes. So do you follow that up, you know, rather than 24 hours, is it 12?

SPEAKER_01 18:13

You know? Yeah, yeah. I I 100% know what you're saying. And there could be some landing page A B testing where you put different landing pages in front of different audiences and then do do a bit of a split test. So you could just implement what you've just said now. It's having some retargeting going on, going, oops, you forgot, you know, you forgot this in your cart. You've just got to keep nudging people, especially in this world when you forget, you add something to your cart that you probably do actually want to buy, you just get to the city. And then the phone rings or the kids come, and then yo, and then yo, it'll it's just there's just a thousand pop-ups, a thousand things, a thousand emails, a thousand things to be checking on your phone. And as you say, there's been loads of times where I've added things to car, and then I've just not had that final nudge to commit to buy, and then I just you know, yeah, people need to be nudging.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

But it's like they need permission, and I think that's the thing. Sometimes it is literally that permission to say it's okay, you can take the next step, you know, whatever that looks like. So yeah. So let's say somebody did engage a marketing company like yourself, how can they then? Because you know, one of the things that as a business coach I always talk about is every spend needs to have ROI. You need to be able to look at it at some point in time and analyze whether this is positive or negative. So, what are the things that they can do to evaluate if somebody's doing their marketing for them, what shifts should they see in the short term and then potentially, you know, that medium to longer term?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah, I mean, I would say the shifts that they should see is they should see their overall revenue growing, obviously. I usually say to businesses, give it about three months for us to get the engine working, get things going, you know, depending on what their goals are. I would say I'd I'd like to see, you know, with their ad spend, like depending on what their goals are, be seeing like a strong ROI on on their ad spend. If they are a larger business, you know, their MPS score, net promoter score, I'd be wanting to see that improve. We could be doing some testing on their audiences in terms of sentiment, like how they're feeling about the brand. So if you do some brand tracking. Yeah. Yeah. So see has measured in that regard. And I think it's actually important in your mind, be with the business you we're working with, actually from the beginning, get clear on like where we're at now and actually tracking along with them the progress. It's easy just to like for someone like us to say just to go and do your stuff and you know your stuff. But I think it's good to take that client on the journey. I think they need to be on that journey for sure. You know your stuff and you get absorbed in it and you love it. But I think, yeah, taking them alongside that journey because they get a lot out of that too, in terms of other measurability. I I would want to see, and it's not always about in terms of social, it's not always about having the most followers, but the most engaged.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Absolutely. Engagement is a and it's interesting. I recently, so probably 12 months ago now, I took over Fempire and it came with a a a rather large database, and our engagement was just really not great. So about three months ago, we did a massive cull of our database. Oh our engagement has gone from something like seven percent to our opens on our newsletters now are at 80%. And you're like, well, we've clearly got a much more engaged. So did you say seven and eight? Oh, sorry, seven to eight, eighty. Yes. Oh, wow, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So then I think you know that you're talking to the right people. Right people, and you know, then you can be really, you know, and we've had a bit of a shift also in you know, how our the tone. Of things and you know, with a different two different CEOs, different, and it shows you know, and it gives you the confidence that the change of tone has been good, the branding is still similar, but it's okay to tweak those things, I think, you know, particularly when you do take over a business. But if it's a new business that you start and that evolves as time goes by, that's okay too. Yeah. So you don't have to necessarily hold to the legacy for the sake of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think having just quite it's just that relevancy, right? You're not shouting at people, you're actually it's that human approach. And I think you know, the longer that AI's been around, we've noticed that there's such a homogenization of tone now. Like I I think AI, and again, this could be a whole nother podcast. AI is great for automations and making things quicker, but to come up with an actual, say, a voice a brand strategy, like doing a brand strategy, the beginnings of it, I think you can really set yourself apart by having that human touch to it. And then I think AI can then use your brand strategy to create XYZ. And I think because your irony is that your brand identity is actually meant to set you apart.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And it just it has that authenticity. And I know it's a bit of a you know, that's a bit of a catch word at the moment, it's everywhere, but you know, it really probably encapsulates it, doesn't it? Is that if you're using AI, you'd want to have trained it really, really well for it to sound authentic. Because if you're just literally putting in a prompt saying, create me a social media post and you haven't done the back end of the work, it's going to sound like everything else, and you're going to have to trot out the same catchphrases and just like I've seen that before, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

And people glaze over. There's almost like a bit of when you see a slight, maybe a slight spelling mistake.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Before we jump back in, if you know you need more support in your business, but you are not ready to commit to one-on-one coaching, the Fampire Academy is your next step. This is our stepping stone program for women who know they need more guidance, more structure, and better support as they grow. Inside, you'll have access to thousands of dollars worth of business training, a monthly QA session with one of our coaches, and our sisterhood Facebook group, where we share exclusive content, insight, and support for women building serious businesses. And because you're a podcast listener, you can join with 25% off using the code RISING. You'll find the link in the show notes. Now let's get back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Or like the grammar's not quite right, or there's just that little bit of that kind of not human error, you kind of go, Oh, this actually absolutely. Yeah, it's a human that's that's interesting you say that. Yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, I actually quite appreciate that. And I think too, like, especially for our own business, you know, we're plugged into our local community, we are ourselves, and so I think there's an onus that we write and we do, but we are us, we we can't really replicate that. No, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

It's a very interesting it is, it's an interesting space, and and I think it will continue to evolve. So I guess probably my final question just in relation to you know your area of speciality is what should people not be doing when it comes to their marketing? What is it, you know, and we've talked AI and authority, but is there anything else you just kind of go, oh my god, will you stop doing that because that is not working?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

That's a good question. I think that businesses and brands shouldn't feel like they need to be everywhere and doing everything under the sun. You don't have to be on Facebook and Instagram if it's not relevant to your business. You don't have to be on TikTok if it's not relevant to your business. But if you are, you need to be active and there's progress over perfection, right? You just need to show up. I would just say to businesses in terms of their marketing that they don't have to be everywhere and doing everything, but they need to pick the channels they want to focus on. So where their target market hangs out, where their target market's living, right? So, like if you're a B2B business and your target market are, you know, these key decision makers that would be living on LinkedIn. If you're especially if you're limited in resource and funds and time, you don't need to be on Facebook and Instagram doing these posts for the sake of it. You're draining resource, you're draining focus. So I think play with the action. Play with your market. And that's what I always say.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

If if you want to target me, don't I'm not hanging out on TikTok and I'll never be hanging out on TikTok. So, you know, if if my demographic is your marketplace, then you're right, LinkedIn is absolutely where you need to be. So it's understanding that. And I, you know, one of the things I always will say too is get really good at one or two. Yeah. Don't try and be if you're not going to engage, you know, a company like yourself and you're going to do it in-house. And I appreciate initially, you know, that's what happens with a lot of startups, get really good at one, maximum two.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I think one thing I do do talk to people about is understanding that you're like collecting email data, like an email database, you know, that's first-party data. You essentially get that email address, those contact details, and those names. You own that data. However, if you build up 10,000 followers on socials, you could lose your account overnight and you don't have anyone's detail. You're off the whim of the algorithms, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

So you might think you're posting to 10,000 people, but the reality of it is the algorithm might only show that to you know, 5%. Yeah. Whereas you've got an email database, then you're at least getting it in their inboxes, whether they open it or not. But you know, you have so much more value in that and more control over you know your message getting out there to the people, you know, and if they've clicked newsletter or whatever your, you know, however you create that, they've had an interest in you. So you're not you're not preaching to the the cold all the time.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

So yes, I 100% agree. And I think I just often tell clients like your email database is a field of gold. You can segment, you can create nurture strategies. Those people are probably sitting there waiting to convert for you. Absolutely. Instead, you're trying to scream out to the void here. Yeah, of which who knows, you're running some meta ads and that kind of thing, and that it's absolutely doubt to the void. So I, and that's kind of when I was early on in my career, I was deep in helping customers with programmatic advertising and in the data space, we were building audiences for then for brands to reach and get their message out there. So it was all about the data, using databases to then database match and talk to people one-on-one. There's so much you can do in building lookalikes as well. So you can take your data, put that in the back end of Google A's meta ads, and then you can build look-alike audiences off that look like your customers. You know, so there's so much you can do with that. And I I would say one actually side point that I do often say to businesses, and again, it's just a knowledge thing, is the number of times people are just but randomly boosting social posts. They and they often say to me, Oh, it's not geo-targeting right, or it's I couldn't do X, Y, Z. And I say, That's because if you actually run it through ads manager, you can actually set it up with all of the objectives, the all the functionalities, and then you're gonna actually get way more results in traction. Well, it's probably using the same amount of money. So that's one thing I do truly.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

And that's true, they're metabusiness suite if they do that. Yeah, again, that's that's an important distinction to make for people is again, you know, startups will often kind of set up their business page, but they will post directly, you know, into that and not understand the background of you know, being able to link your Instagram, link, you know, so you can do a lot more. And as I've talked about, the power is in the analysis, it will show you when your audience is most active. So of course you've got to post at that time or that side.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, there's so much data in that meta suite, but it is meta do not make it easy, like they change things in the back end every five seconds. And I sometimes am tearing my hair out only because it's constantly evolving and changing. But I take that stress away. I'm happy to take that stress away for clients so they can actually go and run their businesses and do what they love. I'm in the back end, like I love it, yeah, but I do understand why it's so challenging, even more so for business owners who just don't actually want to be spending their time doing that.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

No, a hundred percent. I'm a huge fan of outsourcing. I think you you focus on what you do very well. Usually a business owner is actually earning the revenue. And so if you're spending three hours a day doing your socials or whatever the case may be, and you could make way more spending three hours in front of clients, then why on earth are you doing your socials unless you particularly love it, which most business owners do not?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yes, no, definitely, definitely. It's all about time. Your time is money, right? So that's what I yeah, I do talk to clients about, and again, it's that painting that brightness of future. If we can solve XYZ, then that means that you can then be busy doing that, and then you know your kind of thing. And do what you love.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

You created a business for a reason, and I'm sure it wasn't to post on socials or develop nurture sequences for your database. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's move now into our season three core questions because I think it's really important to also understand as much as what you do and you know what what's important, it's understanding your thoughts behind your business as well. And I appreciate you run a business, obviously, with your husband. And you know, one thing I always like to reiterate is just because our target audience is females in business and we're called Fampire, we're not man-haters. We think that men can do some really fabulous things in business and we can take some cues. And one of the things that we talked about was how wonderful with your husband and yourself is that you come at things from a different angle. These questions are not designed to be, you know, negative towards men, but we are clearly very pro-females. So yeah. So, from your perspective, what is one thing women in business need to understand earlier if they would like to build something strong and sustainable?

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Yeah, I would say just really being all in with the business, thinking about it in the long-term sense, like investing in it from day one, really. So just not being shy about it. And I think one thing for me in my career from the very beginning, and my father's in the business world as well. So I've learned like a huge amount from him over the years, is you know, the networking side. So critical I it is huge. Like I've got in a number of you know, roles in my career because I'm just connected and plugged in in different sort of ways with different people. So I think to build that a strong and sustainable business, it's yeah, it's being all in with your business, so not making the assumption it's gonna work, kind of positive mindset. And then in terms of the networking, just having the right people around you, maybe that people that you probably don't realize from earlier on in your career that could be helping you absolutely in your journey. And I think as well, when I say all in too, I think it's like just investing into your business. So, you know, don't go for a cheap logo. Get someone to build out a beautiful brand identity, invest, see it as an investment, a beautiful brand identity, even more so, a really clear business plan and a really clear brand strategy and working on your messaging. As you were saying, you went you were saying there was that website you talked about, and you literally were like, I just don't actually know you're shouting at me with all this, it's like stream of confidence. And it was just jargon.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

And I guess that was the thing is it was jargon, and it was like I work in the business space and I struggled. If you're pitching to a client that is not necessarily working in that space and it's just jargon, then how on earth are they going to feel confidence to come to you?

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Yeah, exactly. And I think it's having like dumbing things down in a very simple way. And one thing, I I'm a business mentor at one of the universities in the city, and I was talking to my students this week, and I said to them, because they're doing a pitch in a couple of weeks for their project, and I said to them, if you're in an elevator, so say, for example, you had 30 seconds in an elevator with so you're pitching an idea. How would you most simply pitch who you are and what you do? Because if you just list off a bunch of things that are very functional and descriptive, it's not the person will just forget who you were.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

And you know, and I yeah, we we call it an audio logo, but same same. You know, ultimately, you know, the the critical things are you need you you almost need to challenge yourself and not say what your job is, because people don't care. And if I say I'm a business coach and a CEO, people have preconceived ideas of what that is already. So it is very much around who I work with, what problem I solve. And the next, I guess, cue is if people ask you more, you've got it right. If they don't, and they go, Oh, okay, thanks, then you need to work on that audio logo, elevator pitch, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

So yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a yeah, that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yeah, so yeah, as we say, you know, as so yeah, be clear on your what you solve and who you're pitching to. So exactly. In your field, what is one mistake you see business owners make time and time again?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah, what is one mistake? Uh it's it is quite linked to the first question that we talked about. It's just kind of trying to do things as basic or as just it's just not investing in your business. So it's expecting your business to sort of magically do something without putting in the the work.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

So it's interesting. I see people launch their business and they create a Facebook page and create a website, and they just think people are gonna magically come to them and say, No, actually, you need to drive them to it, you know, just because you have a beautiful website, that's all it is.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, and that's the thing, is like it's all great to have a website, but unless you actually directly putting strategy together, no one's gonna know about what you do, no one's gonna find it and know about it. And no, it doesn't just magically pop up in front of everybody. No, it does not. And yeah, it just doesn't magically arrive. And I think it's so hard when you talk to someone where they got the most amazing business and the most amazing ideas, and it's trying to show them if you invest in a website and a good website, if you invest in your brand, if you invest in um an actual strategy, which I think a lot of small to medium-sized businesses they a little bit, unless you come from a background of working, say in corporate, it's kind of scares people a little bit. They go, I think strategy.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yeah, and and there's there is you know, particularly small businesses, there is always such a competition for the dollar. You know, there's so many things, and so it's you know, do I invest in marketing or do I invest in a you know a support person, or do I invest in this? Or do I so I think that you know it's it's about understanding clearly and you know, maybe allocating a part of your budget that's a not negotiable to your marketing. So what separates the women who build lasting businesses from those who struggle to gain traction? Probably similar to you know what what we've talked about, but yeah, anything else that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, I would say um, yeah, we talked earlier about the investing in your brand, leveraging your networks, the belief in yourself. And I think another thing would be thinking about the transferable skills that you've actually already have. Yeah. Um, so it might be picking up some skills maybe you learned on earlier in your career. It might be I think separating the woman, I think that they yeah, they're investing in in the long, they see they see it as like a long game. They're not there to have a video go viral.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

They are yeah, in it for that long. Are there to play business for their future as opposed to yeah, that that kind of quick dopamine hit, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:44

So yes, and I I think one thing too is when you're building a business, obviously if you're a freelancer, it's it's you, you're sort of selling yourself. But I think in terms of like a brand, it's trying to separate yourself a little bit from so that the business has long-term impact.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

I have a personal brand, I coach under my personal brand, yeah, my name. That's fine. That's my long-term strategy to to coach, but you know, Fampire, for instance, is not that doesn't need to be another Trudy show. It's Fempire, a brand that you know, then has scalability and all of those. So you need to think about your when you first start out or when you take over a business, what the long-term strategy is. And I always, you know, one thing I a hundred percent advocate is when you start a business, you also need to know what your exit strategy is. You may not pull the trigger at any time, but you have to be really clear on what that looks like because that will help you in your strategy and in your philosophy and everything that comes along with that.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

So yeah, yeah, definitely. But at the moment, it's just my husband and I running the business, and what we love is that we have flexibility for our lifestyle, you know. We, you know, we get some contractors to work on some jobs, but it's very nice with the stage of life that we're in now. But it's exciting, you know, as the year's gone on, and we're we're still quite early in the game as the rest of the year goes on, you know, we'll be spending a lot more time thinking about that more longer term strategy.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah, and what we're enjoying. What's the the growth, you know, what's your scale, scattered, all of those sorts of things. So yeah. What's the one decision or shift that has made the biggest impact on your own journey?

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, I would say there hasn't really been, I would say, one decision, but I think it kind of comes back to to earlier when I I knew I could tell early on my career the networking aspect is just critical. It's connecting with people and it's building those networks. Like I think in terms of the impact, if I hadn't, if I think if I took away all of those connections, you know, I wouldn't have joined being on a the IAB board. I think I joined nearly 10 years ago, you know, I was a bit younger and being on the board or being asked to be on a, I was on another an iMedia board and for a conference that was running, all these opportunities just would not have happened if I wasn't connecting in. And I sort of say that to young students now is don't be afraid to get out there and especially, you know, I think that some office time, you know, is is really when you're starting out your career, I think that's very valuable. But yeah, I think that that the decision to be to put myself out there and to and again it's a little bit personality driven. Some people it's networking is just like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I think you know, there there's there's different ways to network, it doesn't have to be the traditional way, and the other thing that is really probably important is say yes to the opportunity, it might create the most incredible amount of fear in you. Yeah, but the reality of it is that you just never know where that opportunity might lead. And so whether you can reframe that or or work with specialists, you know, sometimes some people don't like to public speak. Maybe you need to look at a coach or Toastmasters or but you know, it people offer you an opportunity because they believe in you.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

So don't let them down because you don't have the belief in yourself.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yes, yeah. I I agree with you there. And I think, yeah, I think you know, my dad, like I think that having his stare, like quite lucky, um, but having someone that is in that business world and can also guide. Absolutely. And so a mentor or a client. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Yeah, and clearly we we advocate that very much. Yes, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

So when you look at the future of women in business, what gives you the most optimism?

SPEAKER_01 42:39

I think one thing I've been thinking about lately is I'm in a number of Facebook groups, some that are women focused and some that are just general, not small business. And it's very cool to see a lot of women who are like, I've got this business idea, or you know, I'm a mum, but I actually really want to start my own. You know, I've got a side hustle and it's starting to scale. Can anyone suggest, you know, what the right platform would be for this or use this or or use this? And I I think I don't love the word for me personally, the word hustle, but I think there's a lot of women that are able to build businesses and have a family and um do there's the abundance of all of that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 43:24

It's kind of you and yeah, yeah. I think and the support, you know, what I love to see is that support from other women. And as you said, you know, they they drop into these Facebook groups, they ask for some ideas or yeah, you know, and so many people jump in, so many women jump in and say, Well, I use this or don't use that, or you know, I've and yes, that is probably one of the positives that has come out of social media because there are many negatives that you know we can again do a whole other podcast on. I think that you know, for women, particularly that might be isolated, whether they just be at home, you know, and and with young children or in more rural areas, that support network is critical to be able to build confidence. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Yeah, definitely. And yeah, just the ability that people have now to build their own businesses. And I think, yeah, I think that there's there is that, you know, a lot of both parents, you know, a lot of the time now are working, whereas, you know, back in the day it was like you'd have the traditionally it'd be like the man would go to work and the woman would be at home. And so um I think it's the idea that you can, you know, create your own um and especially with more, you know, there's it's becoming there is a shift in terms of the more equal childcare, you know, from both parents. So I think it's enabled some woman to actually go, oh, I am gonna get back into the workforce, but in on my own terms. And I think it's just, yeah, I just like, I just love to see when I'm I'm learning things from other women in business. Like every day I'll be like, oh, that's interesting, or that's cool. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Yeah, and I think that's it. I think you become mistress of your own future, right? So yeah, I love that. Yeah, Sarah, thank you so much for joining me today. Your story is a wonderful reminder that effective marketing is not about being everywhere, it's about clarity, strategy, and ensuring every activity supports meaningful business growth. So if you would like to connect with Sarah and learn more about Kumeya Media, you'll find all the links in the show notes. I appreciate you and I appreciate your time. Thank you. Oh, thanks so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for being here for another episode of Fampire Rising. If this conversation gave you value, challenged your thinking, or helped you see your next move more clearly, share this episode with another woman in business who needs to hear it. We'll include the links to our guest in the show notes so you can connect with them directly and learn more about their work. Make sure you're following the podcast, and I'll see you in the next episode.