Season 4 | Episode 1 | The CEO Shift: From Operator to Leader

Season 4 of Fempire Rising begins with a conversation every business owner needs to hear.

In this special panel episode, Trudy Heins is joined by Laura Connarty-Duncan, Karen Evans, and Dena Piro, three Fempire Certified Business Coaches with decades of combined experience across corporate leadership, business ownership and coaching.

Together, they explore what it really means to make The CEO Shift. That point where working harder is no longer the answer, and stepping into leadership becomes the key to sustainable business growth.

The panel shares personal stories of career pivots, leadership lessons, imposter moments, burnout, confidence, delegation and the realities of building businesses that don't rely on the owner doing everything.

This conversation is practical, honest and full of commercial insight for women who are ready to stop operating in their business and start leading it.

In this episode, Trudy, Laura, Karen and Dena discuss:

•  What The CEO Shift really means and why every business owner eventually reaches it. 
•  The difference between being busy and being commercially effective. 
•  Why so many women underestimate the value of their own experience. 
•  Building confidence through action rather than waiting until you feel ready. 
•  Delegation, systems and why they need to happen earlier than most business owners think. 
•  The mindset shifts required to move from operator to leader. 
•  The importance of boundaries, resilience and building a business that supports your life. 
•  Practical advice for women who are ready to lead with more confidence and commercial clarity. 

Episode Highlights

00:00 Welcome to Season 4: The CEO Shift

02:49 Meet the panel: Laura Connarty-Duncan, Karen Evans & Dena Piro

09:45 The first signs you've become the bottleneck

17:36 Why the CEO Shift starts with mindset

23:08 Delegation, outsourcing and letting go

28:38 Systems: Why you need them earlier than you think

34:33 Getting out of the day-to-day and leading strategically

39:53 Redefining success as a business owner

42:12 The one thing every CEO needs to stop doing

47:08 Turning decades of experience into a coaching business

53:12 Final advice for women making the CEO Shift

Connect with our panel

Laura Connarty-Duncan
Founder & CEO Champion Women

Karen Evans
Founder & CEO Business By Design Coach

Dena Piro
Founder & CEO DP Business Coaching


Find all of our Certified Business Coaches here

Become a Fempire Certified Business Coach:
If you're an experienced businesswoman ready to turn your knowledge into a profitable coaching business, learn more here

Join the FEMPIRE Academy:
Access practical business resources, masterclasses, templates and a community of women building commercially strong businesses here

Transcript

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TRUDY

Welcome to Fempire Rising, Her Future, Her Voice.

I'm Trudy Heins, and I'm the CEO of Fempire, a strategic business consultant and your host.

If you joined us for season three, you'll know we spent the season exploring the foundations of building a successful business.

But eventually, every business owner reaches a point where working harder is no longer the answer, nor the option.

The very skills that helped her start the business can become the things that hold her back.

And that's where season four begins.

Welcome to The CEO Shift.

This season, we're talking about what it really takes to move from operator to CEO of your business. To stop doing everything yourself, to build stronger systems, make better decisions, lead with confidence, and create a business that does not rely on you for every single thing.

I'll be speaking with women from Australia, New Zealand and around the world who have made that shift and have the lessons to prove it.

Because the goal isn't to do more. The goal is to lead better.

This is Fempire Rising.

Today's episode is a special one because it officially opens season four of Fempire Rising.

This season is all about The CEO Shift, the moment a woman in business realises she can no longer keep doing everything herself and has to start leading differently.

And I could not think of a better way to begin than with a panel conversation featuring three of our fabulous Fempire Certified Business Coaches, Laura, Karen and Dena.

All these coaches are at a very different stage in their coaching career.

However, all have come from a background of experience and knowledge that they certainly are happy and eager to share.

Together, we explore what it really means to move from being the operator in your business to the CEO of your business, how to recognise when you have become the bottleneck in your own business, how to get out of your own way, why outsourcing and systems matter earlier than most women think, and how to build a business that supports your life, not just your revenue.

We also talk about the coaching journey itself and why women with years of business experience often underestimate just how valuable their knowledge really is.

This is a practical, honest and powerful conversation to open up our season.

So let's dive in.

Ladies, welcome to Fempire Rising.

I'm so happy to have you here.

LAURA, KAREN AND DENA

Thank you for having me.

Pleasure.

Thank you.

TRUDY

So to begin with, I'd love each of you to share what inspired you to become a coach and support women in business.

Laura, I'd like to start with you.

Your extensive leadership experience and your passion for helping women build confidence and lead without burnout.

What encouraged you to become a coach and support women in business?

LAURA

Yeah, thanks, Trudy.

So I found myself becoming a general manager at 27 years old.

I actually found out I was pregnant when I was offered this opportunity.

TRUDY

Oh wow.

LAURA

I know.

And I had hyperemesis gravidarum, so I ended up very, very sick.

But the reason that I got there was I had an amazing boss.

She was a female who let me do everything for six years.

She trained me up, she built me up, she gave me confidence, allowed me to do everything.

And then throughout that 20-year journey, it wasn't strategic, it wasn't deliberate.

It was just one opportunity after another opportunity.

Lessons and mistakes and managing people and managing businesses.

And those businesses got bigger and the responsibility got bigger.

And I found myself in a male-dominated role in three national associations, and I was the only woman who'd ever done this role in the 40-year history.

The only woman who was an executive, the only woman in three boardrooms, doing national conventions, supporting big industry and business.

And they said to me, "Oh, you could be the champion for women."

We've got this women's development program that had a little bit less enthusiasm or support or advocacy, let's say.

TRUDY

How unusual for that to happen.

LAURA

Than the young professionals development program, for example.

And I just really took that and it became an absolute burning passion.

But I think it's also because my mother is a role model.

She was an executive, and in her time that was even more rare.

And I think just being under her wing, she took me to feminist meetings when I was younger.

So I really am a feminist and I've completely embraced that.

But also having two children, living on the other side of the world without a support network, I realised when I really got involved in designing and doing the women's development programs that I'd actually burnt out a few times myself.

And I was recognising, as I was supporting other women, lots of common mistakes.

So I was just completely drawn to helping women.

And I just started to search around and the universal line, and I've heard other people say this, but Fempire popped up.

TRUDY

That happened for me, exactly.

So I 100 per cent know where you're coming from.

LAURA

I didn't know what coaching was two and a half years ago.

Even though I was doing it and I trained to mentor and do mentoring, I just hadn't heard of it.

So this, yeah, two years later, absolutely love it.

Very, very passionate about helping women and seeing more women in the boardroom, in positions that are underrepresented, CEOs.

For example, we only have 20 per cent of women in the...

TRUDY

There's so much work to be done.

But I think that conversation around burnout is such an important one because so many women have spent years carrying businesses, teams and families and the emotional loads.

So that is certainly something that is great to bring to the forefront.

And the other thing that you mentioned is just sometimes it is not a pre-planned destiny.

Many of our coaches arrive here through a pathway that is definitely not designed, but I love the fact that there are so many women out there these days that will actually just take advantage of opportunities when they're presented to them, embrace them and run with them with some trepidation.

But opportunities don't come your way for no reason at all.

So there are clearly people out there that believe in what you're doing.

And sometimes, as I said, we need to get out of our own way and trust that others know us better than sometimes we do.

So thank you for sharing that.

LAURA

That's all right.

TRUDY

Dena, I'd like to ask you next.

After building a successful cheer and dance academy while balancing business and family, what inspired you to turn your experience into a coaching business that helps other women create both business success and life balance?

DENA

Thank you, Trudy.

So I actually started my business by accident.

So I went in not knowing anything about business, so I learned along the way.

Where I'm coming from is that I do want to help women overcome the same challenges that I did when I first started and what I went through, so they know there are support systems out there for them.

So I would want to be that support system for them, a sounding board, or even sometimes just a voice of reason.

I found when I started that I didn't have that and I didn't know where to look.

And as women, we do tend to take on everything and we believe that we can do it all ourselves.

We can probably do that, but we don't have to.

So I really want to put myself out there to help women start their businesses and be that support system for them.

It can be isolating.

And especially when you've been working 100-plus hours a week, then all of a sudden a new baby comes along, and now you've got the pressures of family, baby, work, and you can't work under a lot.

TRUDY

So many others have an opinion on what you should be doing, don't they?

And I think sometimes the pressure of other people's opinions on where you should spend your time competing with when you feel you want to can often be such a huge thing to overcome.

DENA

Yes, that's actually a really big point, Trudy.

And one person's what they want to do after having a baby and going back to work or going back to your business can be completely different to somebody else.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

Everybody's definition of success, or what their journey needs to look like, is their own.

And I think that's one thing that a coach will help you with, help you actually distil down what your definition of success is so that you can strive towards that.

Because what your partner, your children, your accountant, your whoever thinks, it has to be what works for you.

And I think for so many women listening, they will relate to that because the reality is that many women are building businesses while trying to hold everything else together behind the scenes as well.

You sit in a wonderful area of support, particularly for women that need that.

DENA

And I also feel like there's a lot of women out there who want to start or want to do something.

They are really passionate about something, and that can be your life.

That can be your business.

You can build that business around your family, around other commitments.

And I think it's important that women know that that's okay.

You don't have to fit the mould and go back to work and do your nine-to-five.

TRUDY

And you can design your business.

You can design your business to serve you, not the other way around.

DENA

That's right.

TRUDY

So now I want to move on to Karen.

Now, Karen is our newest coach for the panel, and excitingly, the day that this episode drops, Karen will also launch her coaching business.

So that is super exciting for Fempire and for me, and I'm sure for Karen.

Karen, you come from an accounting and financial background.

So with your expertise and your passion for helping business owners better understand their numbers, what motivated you to become a coach and help women build stronger, more profitable businesses?

KAREN

Thanks, Trudy.

Yes, it feels like it's been a long time coming, but I'm very excited to launch from the first of July.

So yes, very much looking forward to that.

But with my background as a co-owner in an accounting practice, and then later as a CFO for businesses, I've seen a lot of businesses, small, medium, large businesses, all the different complexities with that.

And you see how the success or lack of success affects everybody's life as well.

One of my main motivations for becoming a coach was the gap I kept seeing between financial success, or lack of it, and personal fulfilment.

So many women start their business because they're passionate about what they do.

They believe it will create more freedom, freedom with time, money, purpose and how they want to live their lives.

And what I kept seeing was that over time the business just became another source of pressure or responsibility with everything else that they're carrying in their life, alongside work, family, relationships, et cetera.

And it wasn't a lack of capability.

I kept seeing two recurring patterns with it.

Financial clarity and confidence would be the first one, I'd say.

Many women, they're incredibly hardworking, but they don't always fully understand their numbers.

TRUDY

No.

And that financial literacy is a huge, huge point.

And my background as well, coming from that financial side, is that if you don't understand your numbers in your business, you are behind the eight ball right from the word go.

KAREN

Yeah.

And sometimes there's a barrier around that.

And I think it's just breaking through that barrier.

You often hear, "Oh, I'm not good with maths," or, "I don't like numbers," that sort of thing.

Honestly, it's got nothing to do with it.

Or it does have a lot to do with accounting, but it's not about understanding accounting.

It's about just understanding the story of your numbers.

TRUDY

Yes.

KAREN

And the clarity and the flow of your money.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

I think total ownership of the flow of your money.

Because the reality is that yes, there are lots of different terminologies for it, but it's money in, money out.

KAREN

Exactly.

And if that's not clear, everything really revolves around your money.

There's a lot to a business, but everything comes back to the money.

So that's one of the first gaps, the financial understanding and the clarity around that.

And then alignment is a big thing as well.

Many were trying to build businesses, I would say, in a traditional sense, where it's about growth and it's about output, and we hear the word hustle all the time.

That sort of thing, without considering how women really live their lives.

So that's the gap that I became passionate about closing.

Helping women build businesses where profitability and strategy still deeply matter, extremely important, but where success is also aligned with their life, with their energy and actually how they want to live.

TRUDY

And I think, with all three of you, you all specialise in very different areas.

And obviously that's one of the things that we are so passionate about with our Fempire coaches.

We're not creating clones of each other.

We want to be able to offer lots of different points of view.

But I guess to bring that down and really get that nugget of gold in there is actually being able to say, if you are a woman in business, you can build a business that serves you, however that serves you.

And it's not up to anybody else to tell you that you must scale, you must do this, you must do that.

It's actually working with a coach to uncover what you need, what your goals are, and to be able to design your process and your progress from that.

Again, that common thread has gone through everything that you've all just said.

So thank you for that.

Now, Karen, I'm going to ask you the first question.

And ladies, please feel free to jump in should you wish.

Based on your experience working with business owners and their numbers, what are some of the early signs that a business owner has come to a bottleneck in their business?

KAREN

The major warning sign is that a business can't function without the owner's input.

So basically, if everything revolves around the owner, you don't have a business, you've just got a job with extra steps.

TRUDY

That's right.

KAREN

Exactly.

So we would typically see every decision needs their input, things slow down when they step away, and nothing is documented or repeatable.

And if they're operating that way, then decisions just become urgent and they're operating on exhaustion sometimes as well.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

Not carefully thought out.

KAREN

That's right.

And I think growth can expose the weaknesses in a business very quickly if that's the situation.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

Dena, I'd love your perspective on this from a balance and operational perspective.

What are your thoughts there?

DENA

Yeah, I think it's definitely like the owner wants to take on everything.

Things that I've seen are that staff start to not show any initiative anymore.

They're not getting that growth that they want or that fulfilment that they want.

So they either leave or they're not taking on any extra roles.

They're showing up to work, working.

TRUDY

They're feeling they're being directed all the time and not valued for their own thought process.

DENA

Yes, exactly.

So it's also important as the owner to realise that you need to step away to allow, if you want growth, you need to allow for other people to be able to step up and have that fulfilment as well.

And in the long run, it all works out.

TRUDY

Yeah.

And Laura, what do you tend to notice from a leadership perspective in that situation?

LAURA

Yeah, well, we do know the facts are there and the research is there that employee satisfaction is about that autonomy, right?

This is one of the biggest things.

It's not the money.

And if you don't give them autonomy, and it is a mistake that a lot of leaders make, and I can definitely relate to that.

And I speak to lots of clients about the control element, which can be that female CEO who's very competent.

But then you want to do everything and know how to do everything.

But you have to give that autonomy to other people.

And if you're going to grow a business, you're growing a team and you're all going together, and you're all in tune with what the final goal is and which value each person's part in that.

TRUDY

And I think the thing that is really important is, if you have a member on your team that you can't trust to do that, then you probably need to look at that.

Ultimately, if there's not a level of trust there, you need to probably unpack why and potentially address that situation.

If your staff members are not competent for what you need, then that can be a training gap.

And that, I think, as an employer is up to you to provide the training.

Or maybe they're not the right fit for your business, and that's okay as well.

Really casting a critical eye over, is it a you problem that you can't lose the control, or is it a team problem that you don't have the confidence and the trust?

LAURA

Yeah.

And that's where the coaching comes in.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

LAURA

Easier said than done.

I've been brought in for organisational reviews in large organisations, hundreds of staff, and it's very hard to change that.

So I think that's the kind of coaching that I do.

You're expected to have all the answers as the CEO and the leader.

So who's supporting you?

TRUDY

And this is not easy.

This is common.

And nobody likes to be the person that makes that, well, many don't like to be that person that makes a decision.

So having, you're right, a good sounding board that is a coach who can draw you to natural conclusions by asking you the right questions and potentially challenging you is critical.

And the strength and the backing to do those difficult things as well.

LAURA

Yep, correct.

TRUDY

So I think a lot of women wear being needed as a badge of honour until they realise the business cannot grow without them stepping back from every single task.

And you, in each of your own ways, have just reinforced that very much.

So Laura, what do you see women struggling with most when it comes to stepping into their CEO role?

LAURA

A lot of it's mindset.

That mindset shift and helping them get there on their own without telling them what, but asking those inquisitive questions about what do we truly want?

And a lot of people will say they do want to grow a business where they're not working 24/7, and they're not sure that's sustainable for them.

So yeah, I find that's the biggest thing.

It's just having that clarity and perspective and a bit of strategy around it so it's sustainable and they can step into that CEO position and see the structure that they need to put in place so that they can have that balance.

And the things outside business I talk about is, what really drives you?

Do you want a holiday?

Do you want more time with your children?

We've got to have good health.

Let's think about the long term and the whole holistic human.

TRUDY

That's right.

Because you cannot continue to run if you're burning the candle at both ends, can you?

All things to all people.

LAURA

So mindset, normally if people's confidence or their value system or their beliefs that they've inherited from other people.

And question, who are you listening to?

Is it actually what your parents expect?

What society expects?

Are we doing this truly aligned?

TRUDY

Conditioning is critical.

And sometimes it is really that deconditioning, right?

LAURA

Absolutely.

TRUDY

And Karen, how do you see this showing up financially or commercially within businesses as well?

KAREN

I agree there with Laura.

It's a mindset shift and an identity shift.

But as far as the financial side, I would say there's probably, I mentioned it before, financial avoidance is a problem when you're stepping into that CEO role because you ultimately have to have an understanding of your numbers well enough that you're not guessing anymore.

You know what's working, what's not, where the business is actually being driven from, and more importantly, you can see the opportunities or where the areas that need pulling back.

So if you don't have that visibility, it's very hard to make those strategic decisions.

And I guess a simple way to think about that is visibility creates clarity.

Clarity creates confidence.

And it's confidence that you need to make those strategic decisions.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

The numbers are so critical because it helps you understand, particularly when you are scaling, what offers to take along, what to expand out, what's making a profit, what's costing you money.

And as you said right at the outset, are you just buying yourself a job, or are you actually running a business and earning risk-return reward for having a business?

Because this is the one thing I see time and time again with women, is that they are essentially pricing themselves way too low, particularly in personal services businesses, where by the time you look at the costs, they are earning less than if they went and worked nine to five.

KAREN

Absolutely.

TRUDY

You've got this whole layer of risk that you're not covering.

KAREN

And there's so much about pricing.

That's a whole other podcast.

But yeah, just even not knowing what levers to pull in the business, when and where and how, and what an impact those levers can actually make.

That's a really important change you need to make when you're stepping into that CEO role.

LAURA

Absolutely.

I just wanted to add, I do a lot of work around that forecasting piece.

Let's talk about what it is strategically or value-aligned, but then let's map it out and see what it looks like.

Let's really look at the real numbers.

And that's also where I think the most rewarding work is, where I get women to realise their own worth.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

LAURA

And what you can charge and what you can make.

TRUDY

No, that's absolutely critical.

Dena, what does this look like from your experience about balancing both business and family life when it comes to stepping into that CEO role?

DENA

I know we set boundaries, especially when we step into this CEO role, but we have to stick to it.

And we can't be guilty about setting our boundaries.

That is a big thing.

Like, we all have boundaries.

Women's guilt.

It's a whole, again, a whole other podcast, right?

I know this because I've done it.

But we can't feel guilty about setting our own boundaries.

If we don't want to work past 10 o'clock, you don't work past 10 o'clock.

Or even if that's five o'clock or 3 pm.

We can't feel guilty about that.

We can't do everything.

If we are over-giving, overcompensating, doing everything in business, that's going to look like we're underpricing, we're taking on too much because, like you said, we're probably making more money if we were to work that nine to five rather than underpricing ourselves because we're trying to do everything.

And don't be guilty about saying no.

You can say no and you can do it tomorrow.

TRUDY

I think that is a fabulous tip.

And again, you can't be managing from a point of crisis all the time because ultimately, if you do that, your business will be in crisis all the time.

I think all of those points, again, all valid.

All bring in a lot of things that, if you are stepping into your CEO role, listeners, you need to start thinking about, and particularly getting the right coach.

Okay, my next question is to you, Dena.

What would you say to a client who knows it's time to outsource but is finding it either hard to let go or justify the expense?

DENA

I feel like you've written this question for me.

TRUDY

Sorry.

DENA

When I started, I started on my own.

But I think what we need to look at is that word letting go.

I think it's really important that we look at that word differently.

We're not letting go.

We're letting somebody else in.

We're sharing our business.

We're outsourcing.

We're freeing up our time to do the things that other people cannot.

Some people may not have that strategic planning brain that can move the business forward, but we can.

It's your values, what you've made.

Only you know that, and only you know where it needs to go.

So you need to let go of those other things that somebody else can do.

And my advice is just do it.

Just let it go.

Give it to somebody else.

TRUDY

It frees you up to work on your business, not in your business.

And we hear that time and time again, don't we?

Developing that strategy out is the only way that you're going to be able to keep ahead of the curve, keep ahead of your competitors and scale it too.

Or maybe not scale it.

De-scale.

If you want to de-scale your business but make it more profitable, that's okay too.

It's only the strategy that you can do because only you know what you want to achieve.

DENA

That's right.

And you only think of this stuff when you know it's time.

If you thought about it six months ago, you're not overthinking it.

It's something you know that you need to do.

And I think just try it.

Just outsource three hours a week.

See how that goes.

TRUDY

Yeah.

Trust your intuition.

DENA

Yep.

TRUDY

I love that.

Karen, financially, when do you think outsourcing becomes necessary rather than optional?

KAREN

Well, outsourcing, I think, is your best friend.

It's creating capacity.

But I understand there's fear around quality control and that identity shift that we spoke about.

But I think my suggestion would be to start small.

Just identify the core things within your role that are not specifically an expertise only you have.

So start small, not by handing over the whole role initially.

And then turn that into a simple process, which can be just a checklist to start with.

Something that someone else can know what is done well in your style.

TRUDY

In your style, exactly.

KAREN

And then when that feels comfortable, start to build from there.

Start building more systems until you become very comfortable.

And as I said, then you'll understand that outsourcing is your best friend because you've just created capacity for yourself to work on your business, to live your life, whatever you need to do.

TRUDY

And I love that because it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing.

It can be a slow transition that you start to feel comfortable with.

And I think comfort is a big thing with that.

Yeah, that's great advice.

Laura, I imagine confidence and trust have a big role to play in this.

So your thoughts around that?

LAURA

Yes, absolutely.

Confidence is a huge part, to be brave enough and back yourself enough to make these decisions if you're going to grow and you're going to bring people on.

It does go back to that leadership point though as well.

So I, when I think from that point of view, when you want to grow out of the team, yes, the procedural.

And yes, making sure you budget in line items of your actual time.

Because I get people to sit and say, "How much of your time are you actually spending? Let's put that in the budget."

But it comes from, what kind of leader do you want to be?

What does that onboarding look like?

What culture are you building?

For years and years I recruited people, but I didn't do it from a values place.

And I learned about values through Fempire.

And now I'm like, "Oh my God, this would have been a great thing," and hired all these people based on values.

So yeah, what kind of leader, what kind of culture as you're growing, as you bring people in.

And that takes that confidence to back yourself and trust.

There are some technicalities behind hiring and doing it the right way.

TRUDY

Of course.

LAURA

And then obviously that's why you work with coaches, about all the mistakes you don't make from 20 years.

TRUDY

No, not hiring in your image, all of those sorts of things that are critical to know.

LAURA

Yeah, for sure.

And you can only, that's 20 years of getting it right and making mistakes, that you can tell people about all of these scenarios.

And then building that trust with someone.

If you are going to build a team, team is so important.

Culture is so important.

TRUDY

Yeah.

It is the only way that is going to, if you are looking to release some of your time, it is the only way that you're going to be doing that.

So you need to reach a point where, I guess it's that, am I going to stay as a sole operator?

Then ultimately I put a cap on my income, I put a cap on my business.

So if that's what you want to do, that's fine.

We're not here to say that it's not something that you can't do.

I often say too, one of the things that is good to think about when you're looking at outsourcing is the things that you don't do well or the things that you don't like.

Because the reality is that if you don't like doing something, you're probably not going to do it well.

If you can find somebody that actually enjoys it, and as I said, it's the yin to your yang, for instance.

I'm big-picture strategic.

Lu, my EA, is very detail-driven.

We really blend well together.

So it's all of those things that with experience and coaching, you do learn.

Delegation sounds simple in theory, but emotionally it can feel really uncomfortable because so many women tie their identity and their value to being the one that does everything.

Karen, at what point would you start to advise a client to put their systems and processes in place?

KAREN

Earlier than they think.

Whenever something is repeatable, I would say start there.

And so that's very early on.

TRUDY

Great.

Laura, where do you see systems helping reduce burnout and overwhelm?

LAURA

Yeah, I love this.

Listen, as a general manager and an ops manager, I've got this really geeky, organised, procedural side to me that I really love, the administration.

So I think it's a real strength.

And straight away from the beginning, and now with technology, building all those processes, you can then scale, you can bring people on board, you can sell your business with all of that IP and all the information.

But if you try and do it all, you can't.

You just simply can't.

TRUDY

No, that's exactly right.

I just think that the other thing that I would like to mention, and I'm sure you will support this, is that it's not a set and forget.

Because clearly, as things evolve, and particularly with scale, the process that you used when it was two people in the office versus the process that you use when it's 10, it's different.

LAURA

So you keep doing that when you grow.

It's not a big task.

This is what I try and tell people.

They say, "Oh my gosh, it's so overwhelming."

And I'm like, "Just start."

Everything that you do.

And now with things like technology, you can just turn it on, it records everything that you do, and then you just put it in.

That constant review.

So it's not a huge task.

TRUDY

No, that's right.

And if you do go to sell your business, then all of a sudden you've got an operational manual and your SOPs that are fully built out.

It's not, "Oh my goodness, now we have to do that."

Dena, what systems have had the biggest impact for you personally in business?

DENA

I just think the general day-to-day.

So for my business, opening up and closing up.

You could open up in the morning at 10 am, close up at 10 pm.

So realistically, being there 12 hours is probably not viable, even though we've all been there trying to do that.

I just think the general day-to-day, like you said, Karen, anything that can be repeated.

For example, opening the door, turning the light on, starting up the computer.

That's a process that we would automatically do.

Our new staff member, this 18-year-old, may not know that.

I know we also feel like we are time-poor, but we all have iPhones now.

So just record yourself doing it.

So if for some reason you can't be there that day, someone's got a video of what to do.

TRUDY

It's taken no extra time.

And with things like WhatsApp and your keystrokes and all of those sorts of things, there is no reason if you are doing it, it can't be recorded somewhere.

So perfect.

Before we get back to the conversation, I've got a quick question.

Are you still running your business?

Or honestly, are you leading it?

If you realise that you're carrying too much, making every decision, or feeling stuck in the day-to-day weeds, it might be time for some support.

At Fempire, our Certified Business Coaches help women make the shift from operator to CEO through practical guidance, accountability and real-world business experience.

Whether you need support with leadership, strategy, systems, marketing, finance or growth, there's a coach who can help you.

To learn more about working with a Fempire Certified Business Coach, visit fempire.com.au.

Now let's get back to the conversation.

Okay, so Laura, what does working on the business actually look like from your perspective?

LAURA

Yes, and so this kind of goes back to elevating yourself to a CEO and not doing all of the tasks.

So if you're the CEO and you're working, are you working on the business or are you working in the business?

Free yourself to be able to have that strategic mindset and guide where you're going, the long-term goals, strategy, pulling everyone together.

You can't do that if you're in the weeds and you're in the minute.

You can't see clearly.

So I think elevating yourself to that position, that you can have that overview and those touch points, whether it be reporting cadence or meeting cadence with people.

We really add a lot of work on your strategy and people's vision and mission.

And how does that come through to all the departments?

And are we all in line with what the long-term goals are and how everyone plays their part and what their KPIs are and how we're going to stay on track?

So yeah, I just think it's so important.

And it's something that's really common.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

It's kind of human nature.

We get busy doing and we have to really remind ourselves.

And again, that's where coaching kind of pulls me, that accountability.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

And that's when you do call BS on their excuses, right?

Dena, how has that changed for you over time as far as your thoughts on in versus on?

DENA

I had a light-bulb moment once.

I was up in my office and the classes had all started for the evening.

So we would run anywhere between four, five, six classes at once.

So that's already about eight staff members in the building and also another location off-site.

And I was up there and we had a phone system, so people calling me, text messages, whatever.

It was about 10 minutes.

Another staff member had to come up and talk to me about something, and she was sitting there and she turned around and said to me, "Wow, you just sit up here and put out fires, don't you?"

And I was like, "Yes. Yes, that's what I'm doing."

But I was like, "I can't keep doing this for 10 hours a day."

And that's when I started to block out time for working on and in.

Obviously, managing staff, you have to do that unless you hire somebody to do that for you.

But it was that light-bulb moment where I thought I need to block out my mornings or afternoons and take days off where I was away from the facility.

If I was away from the facility, no one needed my help anymore.

TRUDY

No, it's interesting, isn't it?

DENA

And that really helped me to put in place those systems, procedures, to grow the business, to help other cheerleading and dance coaches, how to run their classes.

I could review their routines, review their classes, and it made everything better just because I had set aside that time.

TRUDY

Fabulous.

I love to hear that.

And Karen, what do business owners often neglect when they stay stuck in the business?

KAREN

Well, when they're stuck in and they're just doing the do and they're just putting out fires, as a lot of people talk about it, Dena was talking about, they're just maintaining the business.

They're not growing it.

They're not leading it.

So if you're stuck in that, the business is going nowhere.

It's capped.

But if you're working on the business, which there's so many things around that, as we all know, about working on the business, you're actually leading.

You're being intentional about what you want from your business, what you want the business to provide to your life as well.

And I would suggest, like Dena said, you have to get out of the premises.

So maybe even have a quarterly strategy session.

Or even your coaching sessions are a good way to work on the business too.

And if you have even just a quarterly strategy session with yourself and you design and you think about everything, and you just take the time to actually do your wish list and have your grander plans and just take that time to think about everything except doing the do.

That way, when you go back in the business, you've set your plan, you've set your direction.

But you need to trust that CEO version of yourself for the rest of the quarter, if it's the quarterly session you're talking about.

So you've set the intention and then you go back to your business and you implement it.

But you've got to trust that person that had that session.

TRUDY

That took the time out.

KAREN

Took the time out.

And then stop questioning everything day to day.

I think that's a very big thing.

TRUDY

And I think that's really important.

And the other thing is taking the time to actually recalibrate your vision and mission so that you can communicate that to your staff.

Because I always say to the women that I coach that have businesses, if you can't really describe the direction and what your vision looks like and what the next 12 months' goals are, then how on earth can your staff get on board and follow that?

KAREN

Exactly.

TRUDY

It's like getting in the car and going, "Oh, I don't really know where I'm going to go, but I'm going to drive around until potentially I get there."

KAREN

That's right.

And if you're not clear, how can you expect them to be clear?

They don't know what the goals are.

TRUDY

Exactly.

So that's the chaos that you don't want to be in.

Correct.

How do you help clients design a business that supports their life goals, not just their revenue goals?

DENA

So when designing a business or starting or looking at what it is that you want to launch, first, what I look at is what it is that you want to achieve or what success looks like for you.

What do you already have in your life that needs to be there?

For example, maybe family.

Maybe once a month you go away with the family.

You have to do that.

We then design the business around your life goals.

Design your ideal life vision.

So before even talking about revenue targets, what does a successful life look like to you?

How many hours a week do you want to work?

What level of flexibility do you need or would you like?

And what responsibilities matter outside of work as well?

Because you need to keep those.

That's what keeps us going.

That's what keeps our mind fresh and clear and gives us clarity.

And what stresses are you willing to take on?

What stresses are you willing not to take on or carry?

And I think that's really important.

I think a lot of people get into business and you think, "I've got to work 100 hours. I need to do everything. I've got to do this. I can't, if you like to play netball, I can't play netball anymore because I've got to do my business."

Those things are very important to keep in your life.

That's balance.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

DENA

You need that.

You need to have that fresh outlook as well.

Otherwise, you won't work as fast.

You won't get as many things done that you need to get done.

TRUDY

Yeah.

No, I love that.

And Laura, I know this aligns strongly with the work you do around sustainable leadership as well.

Any thoughts there?

LAURA

Yes, that's so important.

That's kind of the base of what I discovered after 20 years in leadership.

What did I need to survive?

What would I like?

I could have done a lot better and not sacrificed so much of myself.

How do we have sustainable leadership?

How do we have more women in leadership?

How do we have more women in business?

How do women become more equal financially and in society?

And it's about that sustainability.

And for me, that's the support.

That's why I do what I do.

That's why I value coaching so much.

You don't have to think you have to do it all.

We do wear that badge.

I used to do it.

You don't have to carry that load alone.

You don't.

And you can maybe when you're younger, but it will have effects.

I had an 11-centimetre tumour, and I actually believe it's because I wouldn't stop.

My body made me stop.

So that's the big wake-up call.

I've heard lots of stories from lots of women about it.

TRUDY

And I think that it's interesting.

I had that conversation with Lu this morning.

She's not been well and she's not resting.

And I said to her, "If you do not rest, something will happen to make you rest. So seriously, stop."

LAURA

100 per cent.

And it is about building the life and the business that you want.

And you can actually have it all.

That's what I wanted women to know as well.

We're kind of conditioned that we have to go to work nine to five, we have to work a certain way.

So many people accept we have to be unhappy at work, we work in toxic environments.

Or you can build your own business and build your own life.

But let's do it sustainably.

Let's do it where it's aligned.

I also know that when I was at work, I wasn't truly aligned, so it was exhausting.

And when you're not truly aligned with you, you come out completely exhausted.

TRUDY

You do.

You're drained.

LAURA

And I think that's it.

For me, I've completely changed.

I come first.

My priorities are different.

My health and my wellbeing come first.

And I tell women all the time, if you don't put yourself, your health, fill your bucket first, to get everything else, then the business, it won't work with one without the other in isolation.

TRUDY

I 100 per cent agree with that.

Karen, do you think women are starting to redefine what success actually looks like?

KAREN

Absolutely.

Speaking of the revenue goals that we were mentioning before, believe it or not, as a CFO, I'm not just focused on those revenue goals because you can have a lot of revenue and not be profitable.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

KAREN

So I agree with what Dena and Laura mentioned about we need to be able to see what success looks like for each person and reverse-engineer the business model back from there, if you like, to create that alignment.

For me, two things are really important with this.

There is the profitability, also then revenue, and the alignment.

So those two pillars, I would say structure and alignment, I call it the profitable alignment zone, because that's the important part.

The structure side is the financial side, the cash flow, profitability, understanding the levers, all of that sort of thing.

But that alone isn't enough because you can have a profitable business and just be completely exhausted and drained.

TRUDY

That will not build a long-term sustainable business, will it?

KAREN

It's not sustainable.

And that's where alignment comes in.

It's ideally building the business at the intersection of what you love, what you're good at, what pays you well and what gives you energy.

TRUDY

Well, it's the old adage, if you love it, it's not a job, right?

KAREN

Exactly.

So yeah, you want to have a profitable business, a fully aligned business, but you also want to feel fully alive while you're building it.

TRUDY

And I think that's critical because success is no longer about turnover.

It's about flexibility, sustainability, peace and creating a business that actually fits the life that our listeners want.

KAREN

Which is going outside the traditional model of business that we're all used to.

This is building it all around.

TRUDY

And that's why Fempire exists and our coaches exist.

Because we do think about things differently and we do believe in a more sustainable and balanced way.

And that's why we're out there promoting the fact so that more women understand that there is a different way to do business, not just the traditional way.

So, quick-fire round.

I'd love to do a quick round on this one.

What is the thing business owners need to stop doing if they want to grow sustainably?

Karen, let's start with you.

KAREN

Stop being at the centre of everything.

Like we said before, you do not have a business if you're the centre of everything.

You just have a job.

DENA

I was going to say stop doing everything yourself, which is very similar.

TRUDY

Well, and that is fine because we're just reinforcing.

Laura?

LAURA

Start believing in yourself and the possibilities.

They're endless.

TRUDY

I love that.

Okay, Laura, what advice would you give to the woman listening who knows she has become the bottleneck in her own business?

LAURA

Work with a coach so you can get clear on how you stop that, how you create better habits that create a more successful, more balanced life and business.

TRUDY

I can't think of a more perfect answer than that.

Dena, what would you add?

DENA

Yeah, I agree with Laura.

But also don't feel guilty about it because you've recognised it, you've seen there's a problem.

Reach out for help.

That's okay, and that's what we're here for.

TRUDY

And Karen, what practical shifts would you encourage first?

KAREN

I would say start by identifying what only you should do, and then what can be systemised and what can be delegated.

And then the key is to take one step at a time, I would say.

Don't do it all at once.

It will become overwhelming.

And also, if you've already recognised you're the bottleneck, that awareness is actually powerful.

So I think you're on the right path if you've identified it yourself.

TRUDY

And I think that awareness piece is important because many women already know that they are getting in their own way.

They just haven't yet given themselves permission to lead differently.

Karen, what has surprised you the most about stepping into the role of coach and CEO?

KAREN

I think the biggest thing is how often the real barrier isn't capability, but it's clarity.

I keep coming back to clarity around numbers.

Clarity around everything in your business.

Women have the skills and the experience and the intelligence to build successful businesses.

We all know that.

But they're often operating without a clear structure for decision-making, or especially around numbers and what the numbers are actually telling them.

And when that clarity is missing, it just becomes harder to pull the right levers and harder to know what actually needs to change.

So money blocks are actually quite common too, not in the dramatic sense, but limiting beliefs.

It just makes it harder to engage with the financial side of the business as well.

TRUDY

And that's where, by the side, often those are learned behaviours or generational behaviours.

And sometimes it is actually unpacking some of that with a coach and being able to move forward.

And often you won't know why you have this perception of something when it comes to your finances or money.

And actually having somebody that can ask you the right questions and help you have that light-bulb moment can be revolutionary for not only your full life but your business life as well.

KAREN

Absolutely.

It just gives you that confidence, which is what you need to break the block.

TRUDY

And knowledge is power.

I think that's critical.

Dena, what has surprised you most personally?

DENA

Personally for myself, when I've just been having chats to other people or other women with their work, how many women are actually out there just hustling and just doing what they think is right.

Because before, when I was obviously working 100 hours in my business, I didn't have time to have these conversations or my mindset or my thinking was different.

But now settling into the coaching role, my mindset's a bit different.

So when I'm talking to people, I ask different questions.

And it's just very surprising how many of us just do what we think we need to do because we need cash flow, we need money coming in, and because that's what we think is right.

I would really like to help people in that situation to sort of break that and get into something that they'd like, to break that mindset.

TRUDY

Yeah.

And Laura, how is the experience compared to what you expected around becoming a coach?

LAURA

Oh wow.

I don't know what I expected.

I just always knew I would run my own business, be entrepreneurial.

I knew I was seeking balance.

I felt like I'd earned it.

Twenty years of working hard.

And I was like, by the time I'm 50, I thought I'd be a consultant.

And then I heard that consultants work 100 hours and it was just too stressful.

And I went, "I don't want to do that."

I do workshops with corporates and I do speaking and there are other things that have evolved for me.

I didn't have any expectations.

The surprise that I can put me first.

The surprise that you can have a balanced life.

The surprise that you can have financial independence, empowerment.

And when you put into yourself, I can then give more to my relationships with my husband and my family and my children.

But simple things like daylight and walking the dog and going to the gym, they were all just not an option for me.

It was just all work.

So yeah, it's amazing.

I mean, it's been absolutely amazing.

I'm so glad.

Again, another thing I've stumbled into in life.

This is where I will land and this is where I will stay.

TRUDY

Look, 100 per cent agree with you there.

What would you say to a woman, Laura, who has built years of experience but is still questioning whether she is qualified enough to become a coach herself?

LAURA

Yeah, I hear this all the time.

I had a coach in Marnie when we came to Fempire as well.

And believe it or not, she had to tell me, "You don't need any more qualifications. You don't need a master's. Look at all of the skills and experience you have."

And sometimes you just do need someone else to build your self-belief, tell you what's already there in writing.

And it is a process and it does take time.

But helping someone on that journey to realise, "Oh my gosh, I've got so much to give someone."

And all of those years of experience, or having your own business or running other businesses, that is valuable to someone else.

And you need to start to value yourself and say it out loud and proud.

And you're often probably coaching and not being paid for it anyway.

TRUDY

Yeah.

Dena, I think so many women underestimate their lived experience.

What would you say to that woman?

DENA

Don't underestimate it.

Even before I started coaching, I thought the same thing.

I actually said to Marnie, "Oh, I don't think I'm experienced enough. I don't think I could do it."

And she's like, "Yes. Yes, you can. I wouldn't be speaking to you right now if you weren't."

So I think, reach out to one of us and have a chat and go from there.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

And I think that's important.

Our coaches are certainly happy for our listeners to reach out and have a chat.

I'm happy to talk to anybody because often, as I said before, people can see things in you that you can't see in yourself.

And we do not accept just anybody to become a coach with Fempire.

We are certainly very protective of our brand and, because of the coaches that we have, we're very proud of them.

We will tell you very quickly whether we think that you are ready to become a coach.

And if we tell you that you are, understand that that's because we believe that you are.

Karen, how important is confidence in finally making that leap?

KAREN

Oh, I think confidence is everything.

And I think you have to understand that you don't need to know everything to lead well.

And I mean, I think we all experience imposter syndrome at some stage.

And I think the only way to get over that is just to take action.

Because you can't think yourself into readiness.

You can only get confidence from taking the action.

TRUDY

Well, my view on that, and a lot of decisions that I've made at times when I potentially haven't had the confidence, or have had that crisis of confidence that I like to call it, is, what's the worst that can happen?

You might actually stumble into something that is amazing.

KAREN

And if you don't, really, is it all that bad after all?

You're building trust in yourself through the whole experience as well.

TRUDY

Yeah.

I think that's such an important conversation because women often underestimate the value of their lived experience simply because it feels normal to them.

So they don't reflect on the learnings, the knowledge, the experience.

It's just life for them.

Okay, final forward-focused round.

Looking ahead, what are you most excited about in your coaching business?

Dena, let's start with you.

DENA

I'm really looking forward to helping other women get their passion projects off the ground.

Let's make it happen.

Let's build the life you want.

Let's work it around your life and it's going to be sustainable.

You're going to love it.

You're going to enjoy the moment because our life is short.

We need to love what we do and do the jobs that we enjoy.

TRUDY

Fabulous.

Karen?

KAREN

What I'm most excited about is helping women build businesses that are both profitable and aligned with how they actually want to live.

And my focus is building a framework around where confidence, clarity and change become the foundation of every business and every business decision.

And then helping women understand their numbers and trust their leadership so they don't just build better businesses, they're building better lives for themselves as well.

And I think there's a real sparkle that comes back into how they show up, not just in their business but in their life, when all that comes together.

And that's what I want to keep building, profitable, aligned businesses that bring women back to their sparkle.

So they feel fully alive.

And what really excites me about that though is the ripple effect that that has.

So we know that when women build profitable businesses and earn confidently, the impact extends far beyond their business itself.

TRUDY

To their family, their communities.

KAREN

Families, communities, and I believe future generations as well.

TRUDY

I agree.

And as a grandmother of two young granddaughters, it is very much a passion of mine.

And Laura, what are you most excited about with your coaching business?

LAURA

Yeah, I agree a lot with what the ladies have said.

Building a life and a business that you love is something that's achievable.

And opening other women's mindsets, showing them how to do that, and then being that support system to allow them to do that and sustain leadership in their own business is what's really important to me.

And it's about gender equality as well.

It's about more women having the freedom, having financial independence.

That, I think, will really impact themselves and future generations.

I've met so many women who don't have that, and therefore they don't have freedom of choice within their own life.

We have one life and we should live it where we love ourselves, we value ourselves, we don't beat ourselves up.

We do what we're passionate about, spend every day doing things that we want to do rather than what society or someone decided.

TRUDY

That's right.

We're all built by men for men in a certain way, and it's that celebration of women.

And celebrating that we do do things differently and that is just fine.

There is no reason to make apologies or excuses for that.

And now before we wrap up, I would love each of you to share one piece of advice for women listening who are currently in the middle of their own CEO shift.

Laura, let's start with you.

LAURA

Yeah.

Self-belief.

Please watch how you talk to yourself, is what I would say.

Please talk to yourself kindly.

And if you notice yourself being hard and tough, we need to just practise that muscle of positive thinking and being kind to ourselves and not let that negative muscle grow.

TRUDY

Great.

Dena?

DENA

You can have it all, but you can't do it all.

So listen to your body, listen to yourself and do what you can do.

And don't push yourself too hard so that you don't burn out while you're making those decisions.

TRUDY

And Karen, we'll finish with you.

KAREN

Trust yourself.

I think everyone has so much more expertise and experience and knowledge than they actually give themselves credit for.

But I think if you ask their network or their friends, they would have a completely different perception.

TRUDY

True.

KAREN

So I think just trust yourself, back yourself.

You can do it.

TRUDY

And ask your network.

If you are floundering or you are feeling that crisis of confidence again, ask your network what their perception of you is.

Because sometimes that can be enough for you to actually go, "Oh my goodness, I would have never thought that about myself."

And that's okay.

Also, women in your network, if you can see that they might be floundering, give them that feedback unprompted because you could just make their day.

Thank you so much, Laura, Karen and Dena, for joining me in the very first episode of season four.

And thank you everybody for listening.

This season is going to be full of honest conversations around leadership, business growth, strategy and what it really takes to build a commercially strong business as a woman.

So make sure you subscribe and share the podcast.

Stay connected with us through Fempire.

And if any of the coaches that you have heard today you would like to get in touch with, please reach out.

We will share their contact details in the show notes, but of course we have a wonderful directory of Fempire coaches on our website, and they will all be there front and centre ready to take your enquiries.

Thank you again.

And the future really is female.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of Fempire Rising.

If today's conversation resonated with you, share it with another woman in business who needs to hear it.

And remember, the goal is not to do more. The goal is to lead better.

If you'd like to learn more about working with a Fempire Certified Business Coach, visit us at fempire.com.au and follow Fempire on social media.

And if you'd like to connect with today's guests, you'll find all their details in the show notes.

Just search for Fempire.

We're easy to find.

Until next time, keep rising.