Season 4 | Episode 2 | From Adversity to CEO

Today, Trudy Heins sits down with Di Geddes, founder of Exceptional Care For You, a values-led disability and aged care business she started at 54 after rebuilding her life following breast cancer, divorce, workplace bullying, grief and years of caring for others.

What began with a desire to make a difference has grown into a business employing more than 90 people, proving it's never too late to start again.

Di shares how encouragement from clients, the support of mentors and learning to believe in herself gave her the confidence to take the leap into business. She reflects on the milestones that mattered most, from securing her first office to leading a growing team, and the mindset shifts required to transition from doing everything herself to becoming the CEO her business needed.

Together, Trudy and Di explore values-led leadership, compassion in business, building culture, trusting others, setting boundaries, overcoming loneliness as a business owner, and redefining success beyond revenue alone.

If you've ever questioned whether it's too late to start over, struggled to let go of control, or wondered what it really takes to lead a growing business, this conversation is for you.


Connect with Di Geddes

Di's book


Episode Highlights

01:22 Meet Di Geddes

03:07 Rebuilding after cancer, divorce and adversity

05:50 Finding purpose through care

06:38 The mentor who encouraged Di to start her business

08:54 Strength, support and healing

11:20 Letting go of resentment

12:41 Starting a business at 54

14:20 Why positive feedback changed everything

15:40 The mindset shift from employee to business owner

19:04 Moving from operator to organisation

20:57 Scaling the business and thinking like a CEO

23:30 Building a business led by compassion

25:09 Looking beyond the NDIS headlines

26:14 Can compassion and profit coexist?

26:51 Hiring for values before skills

29:52 Boundaries, trust and leadership

32:28 Building your business tribe

35:38 Lessons in loyalty and leadership

38:31 What the CEO Shift really means

39:14 Redefining success and leadership

41:28 Designing a business that supports retirement

43:22 Why it's never too late to begin again

45:18 Final takeaways


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Transcript

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DI

But I also play this trick on myself.

I don't think about how much money we bring in, and I don't think about how many people I employ.

Because if I did, I probably wouldn't sleep and I might be in a psych ward.

So I just don't give it any thought.

I just do task by task by task and make sure we do things compassionately and live to our values.

TRUDY

Welcome to Fempire Rising, Her Future, Her Voice.

I'm Trudy Heins, and I'm the CEO of Fempire, a strategic business consultant and your host.

If you joined us for season three, you'll know we spent the season exploring the foundations of building a successful business.

But eventually, every business owner reaches a point where working harder is no longer the answer, nor the option.

The very skills that helped her start the business can become the things that hold her back.

And that's where season four begins.

Welcome to The CEO Shift.

This season, we're talking about what it really takes to move from operator to CEO of your business. To stop doing everything yourself, to build stronger systems, make better decisions, lead with confidence, and create a business that does not rely on you for every single thing.

I'll be speaking with women from Australia, New Zealand and around the world who've made that shift and have the lessons to prove it.

Because the goal isn't to do more. The goal is to lead better.

This is Fempire Rising.

Today's conversation is one I know will resonate deeply with so many women in business.

I'm joined by Di Geddes, founder of Exceptional Care For You, a values-led disability and aged care business that she started at 54 after navigating cancer, divorce, grief, workplace bullying and many responsibilities that so often sit on women's shoulders.

What makes Di's story so powerful is not just what she survived, but what she's built from it, a true phoenix rising from the ashes.

Today, Exceptional Care For You employs more than 90 people and is grounded in compassion, dignity, emotional intelligence and, more importantly, care.

This is such a strong season four conversation because it speaks directly to The CEO Shift.

The shift from surviving to leading.

The shift from doing the work to building the organisation.

The shift from questioning yourself to backing yourself.

So in this episode, we talk about resilience, reinvention, values-led leadership, which I am such a strong advocate for, building culture, scaling a team, and what it takes to become the CEO your business needs.

Di, welcome to Fempire Rising.

DI

Thanks so much, Trudy.

TRUDY

It's such a pleasure to have you here.

Di, I'd love to start with your story.

You've lived through cancer, divorce, grief, workplace bullying and caring responsibilities, as we've talked about.

And then you went on to start a business at 54.

Now, having taken over Fempire at 55, I can 100 per cent understand the challenges, but also the excitement that comes with that.

So can you take us back to that point in your life and what led you to start Exceptional Care For You?

DI

Yeah.

So it's a bit of all of those things that you just mentioned.

When I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I was married with two teenage boys.

I was working in, I think, a four-day-a-week position at that time, three or four days a week, and spent the other days helping my mum and dad out, along with my siblings, as they aged.

And then I got breast cancer.

And I was the luckiest woman alive.

I'm still here, no chemo needed or anything, just chemical menopause.

I say just, but that's fairly big.

But anyway, happy to have only that and still be here.

But I didn't know that when I was first diagnosed, and I kept thinking, "I can't die because of my boys."

And that became, "I can't die because of my boys because I don't want my husband to raise them."

It had been a really difficult marriage.

And I'd done 95 per cent of the parenting.

And then I started to think, as I started to recover in an unhappy marriage, and still having those thoughts in my head of, "I've got to beat this," I thought, "If I'm having those thoughts, why on earth am I in this marriage? Why don't I want to leave my boys with that man that I'm prepared to stay with myself?"

It made no sense.

I thought, "I have to finish the marriage," which is what I ultimately did.

And so then I was very broke, had $1,000 in the bank, and that was it.

Two teenage boys to raise.

I went back to work full-time.

I wasn't happy in the jobs I was in.

I had no self-confidence.

What had happened in my marriage had left me with nothing to build on at all.

I had absolutely nothing.

No self-confidence, no belief, not even the desire to do well.

I just thought I was unworthy of doing well.

That sounds awful, but it was actually a really great place to start to rebuild myself because I always knew that I was capable of more than what anyone else had ever noticed in me.

And I don't know why that was.

But no one ever saw my potential, and I knew it was there.

And maybe I wasn't showing it, in fairness, because of my lack of self-esteem at that time.

But I then knew that I could become a whole new person and I could build it to who I wanted to be because I had nothing left.

No foundation either.

So it took a couple of years for me to find a foundation to start building on.

And that was while the divorce happened, and I kept getting slapped down every time I got up.

Then there was workplace bullying, and I'd get slapped down again.

Then my parents both passed away.

And as the nurse in the family, I was involved in all the medical decisions and basically determining that this was the end for them, which was emotionally really tough.

TRUDY

That's a tough one.

DI

Yeah.

And so during that time, I just built a little bit and a little bit.

And I went right back a couple of times, back to nothing again, probably more than a couple.

But around the age of 53, I got into a new job in disability care in the community, and I loved it.

I felt like it was a job I'd been getting ready for for my whole life.

I used to work 12 to 16-hour days, get paid for eight, but I didn't care because I loved the job.

I often refer to it as being like a cult.

I just thought they were fantastic.

And then it occurred to me they were making millions of dollars out of this, and they were making me work 16 hours a day, or allowing me to work 16 hours a day and only paying me for eight, while they were making millions.

And I'd heard a couple of conversations which made it very clear that they were in it for the money.

And that just doesn't sit well with me when you're in a caring job.

And they didn't recognise my potential either.

But by this stage, I had started to know that I was worthy and that I could do more.

So one of the clients there decided that I should start my own business and told me to do it.

She was an amazing woman who I think every woman needs to meet a woman like this.

She sprinkled magic fairy dust whenever you went near her.

Not literally, but you came away feeling like you had been empowered when you spent time with this woman.

She was brilliant.

TRUDY

That's legacy.

DI

Oh yeah.

Brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

And I think of her every day running this business because she really gave me the courage to do it.

But interestingly, she didn't give me any of her business.

She stayed with the other provider to begin with, and she made me become successful before she transferred across to me.

Which I think was the biggest gift she ever gave me because then I knew I could do it.

I got successful on my own, and then that was my reward.

So I found myself running this business, which was just me at the beginning, and then it just grew and grew and grew.

And I'm really fortunate that all that other crap happened because it actually allowed me to become the person I am.

TRUDY

And look, I think that is such a powerful story, and one that so many of our listeners need to hear.

Because often we are left holding the weight of the world on our shoulders for whatever reason.

And I, like you, came through a marriage where I was an absolute shell of myself.

And it took me six months, I think.

I literally sold a business.

Thank goodness I had the opportunity to sell a business and be able to take six months off.

But I literally went and hibernated in Cooma, in the snowfields, so that I could try and just recover something of what was me.

So I 100 per cent know exactly where you're coming from.

And I think the other thing that potentially will resonate with so many of our listeners, and there's a lot of publicity around the NDIS space, and that very much being a money-making machine at the moment.

So it is really refreshing and certainly very much gives a little bit more confidence to the fact that there are people out there like yourself who are running those sorts of businesses that are truly values-driven.

DI

Yeah.

Just about the picking yourself up and hibernating for six months.

I used to do two to four-day hibernations.

Something would knock me down again, and I'd be sobbing.

My bestie would ring me and she'd say, "I'm really worried about you."

And I'd say, "No, I'll be fine. Leave me. I'll come out of this when I'm ready."

And I'd just sit and cry for two or four days.

And I did that multiple times.

I don't want anyone to think that my journey was easy.

It was so difficult.

And I was lucky I had two boys I had to live for.

My story would be very different if it was just me left.

I don't think I would have found the strength.

But I needed to be a strong woman.

I'm really, really strong about the fact that boys need to see strong women.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

DI

And I didn't want them to see that my ex-husband had determined my future.

I wanted them to see that I could do better without him.

But they saw me at my weakest too.

And in fairness, it was my son who made me go to a psychologist because he could see I was broken.

And I kept saying, "No, I'll be all right," because that's what a mum does.

But I went.

And there's lots of psychological help in that journey as well.

It's not an easy journey.

TRUDY

No.

And again, thank you for sharing that.

Because obviously that's a vulnerability that a lot of people may not recognise that they need the help, and clearly your son was able to identify that.

But you may not share that.

And one of the things that I really do like to highlight, and I do this with my clients, I do this with my family, is that there is help out there, and there is absolutely no shame in seeking help.

Because there are some circumstances that it does not matter how strong you are.

To try and navigate a way through that and be able to come out the other end, you just don't have the capabilities.

So to anybody that's listening, that your journey is resonating with, and they're feeling that they don't have an option or an out, or they're sitting somewhere that they just, or they've come out of it and just cannot see a way forward, the message that I want them to take away is that there is help and support there.

And particularly with your message around the fact that you knew something internally, regardless of that, and for people that couldn't see it.

What an inspiration.

The fact that you had some internal light within you, that you could see that you had so much more to give, and you were able to really draw on that strength.

So congratulations.

I really applaud you for that.

DI

Thank you.

TRUDY

Obviously, you've shared a lot of moments, but was there a particular moment where you thought, "I cannot live this or work this way anymore?"

Was there a catalyst event that caused that, or was it a slow burn?

DI

A slow burn and lots of little events.

Lots of little things would happen to either show how much I had changed, which would give me the courage to go to the next phase, or hold me up again, or maybe make me take a few steps back again.

But once you've taken two steps forward, if you go back one, you know you're capable of taking another one forward at least.

And then you build on that.

So I think it was a lot of that going on throughout that time.

I think when I got to the point where I no longer hated my ex-husband and I actually didn't care about him at all.

TRUDY

There's a shift that happens, isn't there?

I think you stop using that energy.

DI

Yes.

TRUDY

And you then can channel it elsewhere.

DI

Absolutely.

Hate and even dislike does nothing but eat away at yourself.

He was living his life, he was off having the time of his life, and I was sitting home hating him.

Well, that's only affecting me.

TRUDY

Exactly.

DI

That meant he still had control over me, which I wasn't prepared to give him.

So once I was able to say, "Okay, that's enough. I'm moving on now," I think that made a big difference to me being able to really take off.

TRUDY

Yep.

And so you started your business at 54.

And as we've talked about, that's an incredibly powerful thing to do.

And so many of us in our 50s and menopausal women are sold short.

When I look back to the time of our mothers, probably in their 50s, and the people that we are, we're totally different women, I think.

And thank goodness for the legacy that they created that we can actually move forward.

We are more energised.

We're probably standing in our truth a lot more.

So what gave you the courage to back yourself at 54?

Because I think it's always such an interesting conversation.

DI

Yeah, I'm not really sure.

I think a lot of it was I had to.

I had to do something to keep financially stable.

I think it was just that inner voice for me that I knew I could do it.

And that client who I spoke of earlier, she certainly contributed a lot to that.

And also in the job I was doing previously, which was pretty much the same as this, but I was just a person there.

I think that when you care for people and they give you great feedback, that just enriches you.

And you have to feel good.

And when I was talking to a friend and saying, "I think I might start a business. I'm thinking of a business name. What should I call it?"

And she said, "Exceptional Care For You, because that's what you give everyone you meet."

And I thought, "Wow."

Because again, I'm not conscious of what a difference I make because it's just who I am.

TRUDY

You just go about your day, don't you?

DI

That's right.

I don't have a checklist for, "Who am I impressing today?"

I just do my work and then I get this amazing feedback.

And so I think that helped me as well.

Yeah, I think that was it.

TRUDY

And again, a couple of things there.

If you do get exceptional service, understand that giving feedback can be the catalyst for change in somebody's life.

So yes, I'm always a believer if the service isn't great, you should actually give that feedback.

But often we don't give that feedback on something that is outstanding.

And it is really important because you don't know what the person on the other side may be going through.

And that could not only make their day, it could change the whole trajectory of their life.

DI

Absolutely.

TRUDY

Clearly, what it's done for you too.

DI

When you give good feedback, they don't know what to do.

Like if I go to the supermarket and I kind of know the girls who work there and I say, "Oh, you've had your hair done, it looks lovely," or, "Thanks so much, you're so lovely."

They don't know how to respond.

TRUDY

No.

DI

They're not used to being given some positive feedback.

TRUDY

You can guarantee they think about that later.

"Oh my goodness, that was probably the highlight of my day, my week."

And you don't know what they're going home to.

DI

No.

And I always give positive feedback now, always.

If ever I have any interaction that is good, I always give positive feedback because it is so important for people.

And you're right, it can change people's lives, not just their day.

It can actually put them on a different pathway.

TRUDY

And that's so important.

And to think that you could be assisting that is huge.

And I think so many women reach a point where they have so much experience, but they still question whether they're allowed to begin.

It's sort of one of those things where we, and this is, and certainly we are not about comparing men and women because it is very much around the wonderful things that women do.

But I think as women, it's almost like we're looking for permission.

We potentially know internally that we have the ability, we can do this, but somebody's got to say, "Yes, it's okay to do that."

DI

Yes.

TRUDY

How crazy.

DI

So I think what's really interesting, because I grew up in a very traditional household.

My mum didn't work.

TRUDY

Same.

DI

Yeah.

My mum was a very strong woman, incredibly strong woman.

But she did what Dad wanted her to do for her whole life.

So I kind of thought that I needed to do the same thing.

And I kind of thought that I needed my husband's permission to do well.

In actual fact, I did, because if I did something he didn't like, I'd get the silent treatment.

TRUDY

Okay.

DI

It was not worth challenging anything, and I should have got out a lot earlier than I did.

But I think when you're on your own, like I was, I didn't have anyone's permission to seek.

I got some advice before I did it, but I just decided to do it.

And I remember sitting at my kitchen table, which was where the whole business started.

In the first week I was ringing up to get some HR services, online support and stuff when I started the business.

And they gave me the option of paying for one year and it was this amount, or go five years and it was cheaper.

And I thought, "Gee, five years is a long time."

And I said, "No, let's take five years," because that made me think the business is going to be successful for five years.

TRUDY

I love that.

I love that.

Before we get back to the conversation, I've got a quick question.

Are you still running your business?

Or honestly, are you leading it?

If you realise that you're carrying too much, making every decision, or feeling stuck in the day-to-day weeds, it might be time for some support.

At Fempire, our Certified Business Coaches help women make the shift from operator to CEO through practical guidance, accountability and real-world business experience.

Whether you need support with leadership, strategy, systems, marketing, finance or growth, there's a coach who can help you.

To learn more about working with a Fempire Certified Business Coach, visit fempire.com.au.

Now let's get back to the conversation.

DI

I love that.

That was seriously the time.

That was the one conversation where I thought, "Right, we're in this and we're going for it."

That was the best.

I'm so glad they gave that offer because it really committed me to making it a success.

TRUDY

Well, and you set yourself up to succeed straight away, didn't you?

And I think it's funny how mindset, whatever it is, it's that little trigger or that little lever of, "Well, okay, I've paid for 12 months, I've paid for five years. Oh well, I've got to make this work now for five years because I've spent whatever hundreds or thousands of dollars it is."

DI

And I remember the next conversation.

My sister said to me, "You're so stressed. Is it all worth it?" and rah-de-rah-de-rah.

And I said, "Yeah, it's worth it because it's going to be successful."

She said, "You must be so stressed, worrying, is it going to be successful?"

I said, "I'm not at all. I'm not at all. I just think it's going to be successful."

So how much that mindset then made it successful, we will never know.

But it had to have something to do with it.

TRUDY

Point taken.

Love that.

Love that mindset.

At what point did you realise you were no longer simply providing care, but you were leading a growing organisation?

DI

Yeah.

To be honest with you, the first four years of this business were so much head down, bum up, that it's hard for me to remember key moments.

It was so busy.

When I employed my first admin person, we had to transfer from working out of home to working in an office.

And I remember getting the keys to that office.

There's a photo of me when I got the keys to that office.

And I still look at it today and I think I can still feel the excitement of that time, even talking about it.

Butterflies.

And the first night I locked the office door at the end of the day, I thought, "Shit, I've got an office."

And that was when I knew we were going to start growing up.

TRUDY

And that's big, in inverted commas.

That's the, "I'm successful now."

DI

Yes.

This is bigger than me now.

I mean, it was a very small, dingy office.

Not a great office building.

Didn't matter.

It was my office with our company name on it.

So I remember thinking then, "Wow, this is big."

But then, as I started to need to employ managers, a clinical manager, a finance manager, in the last probably two years I've started to realise.

But I also play this trick on myself.

I don't think about how much money we bring in, and I don't think about how many people I employ.

Because if I did, I probably wouldn't sleep and I might be in a psych ward.

So I just don't give it any thought.

I just do task by task by task and make sure we do things compassionately and live to our values.

And I've been fortunate that that works.

TRUDY

Yeah.

And I think that values side of things, and I know when we've talked off mic before, you're very much, your whole business is built on the values.

DI

Absolutely.

TRUDY

You now employ 90 people, of course, and you've had to have some mindset shifts.

And you said you kind of do task by task.

But what mindset shifts do you think you had to have to scale to the level that you're at now?

DI

I'm a completely different person than I was five years ago, and almost unrecognisable.

And I think my sons have great difficulty in dealing with that because I approach everything in life differently because of who I've become, and I'm not the person I was for them.

So I think they don't quite know how to interact with me anymore because I'm so different.

I have these wow moments where I think, "Oh my God, I just did that, that I could never have done."

TRUDY

Yeah, that's right.

DI

And I have this file on my computer, on my email, that says, "Look at me go," and that's where it all goes into.

So if I have a bad day, I can look at it.

Just, "Look at me go."

I sound like a teenager, but I love that I've got that file there.

The mindset changes are I've had to learn to let go.

TRUDY

And that's a hard one for a lot of people.

That control of, "This is my way. I do it."

And building trust in others to actually, I guess it's that trust.

Trusting you that you've taught them the way, and then trusting them that they will actually continue to follow the way, is so hard.

DI

Yes.

And I'm still not great at it, but I'm getting much better at it because as I have to do more on the business, I have less time to do stuff in the business.

So I have to let it go.

And that's about the staff you employ too, and whether you can let stuff go and developing that trust and employing the right people, which is not always easy.

I think that's the biggest mindset change.

I think I've also learned to never be surprised by people because they're amazing things, and to be able to switch off too.

That's a biggie.

TRUDY

Yeah.

DI

I do that really well.

But because it's a 24/7 business, I'm kind of always on call.

But I do, I'm kind to myself.

I go away for a weekend and just do nothing.

So I think the mindset of self-care has changed as well.

TRUDY

Okay, good.

Pleased to hear that.

DI

Yeah.

I think the one I struggle with is networking and thinking that I've got the worth to network.

And at the moment it's hard because the minute you say you're from the NDIS field, people now look at you like you're a car salesman.

I've really noticed a difference in the last six months.

They've gone from saying, "Oh, that's a great job. That's so lovely. You must get joy out of that," to, "Gee, what's going on there?"

And so it's very different now.

I'm trying to think of a new way of, I think I'll just say I do home care.

I won't mention NDIS unless they mention it.

But yeah, I think they're the biggest mindsets for me.

But also knowing I'm a businesswoman.

It took me a long time to realise that mental shift.

And I think it was because I'm not your traditional businesswoman.

I'm not running the business for profit.

It makes a profit and we get well out of it, but that's not my aim at all.

And my lack of looking at the financial details, my finance manager tears his hair out because he has to do it all, because I'm not interested.

So I think I had to become my own style of businesswoman, which is different.

I'm not motivated by money.

I'm not motivated by success.

I'm motivated by compassion.

So we give away a lot of services for free.

If we hear a sad story and someone hasn't got funding, we just provide the care.

If someone runs out of their NDIS funding, there have been times when we've done $60,000 worth of care and haven't got a cent for it until 12 months later, when it finally comes through.

And there's no guarantee it will come through.

But you put it out there, it comes back to you, is my theory.

If you put goodness out there, it will come back.

So understanding that I'm a successful businesswoman because we do make money, but I'm also, more importantly, a successful businesswoman because I run a successful business, whether you measure it on compassion or money.

TRUDY

Well, and I think ultimately your success is, and this is one thing with the women that I coach, success is about what you consider to be successful.

Everybody's measure of success is totally different.

And we need to be really comfortable with that.

So success for me versus you versus the next businesswoman that comes along, all of us can have a very different version of what success works for us.

But I think one of the things that is wonderful to hear what you're saying here is that hopefully for people that are a little bit more negative about the NDIS, the media has so much to answer.

I come from a background of being a financial planner, and obviously we copped it for years and years and years and years about how terrible we all were.

It resonates with me very much.

But all you can do is stand in your truth and do what you do and hope that your little piece of contribution goes somewhat towards the way of being able to balance out some of the other bad stuff.

So it's great to hear that.

DI

You know what annoys me about the media?

They ran all these negative stories.

They crucified the NDIS.

Now they're running the stories of, "Oh my God, Susie's going to lose her funding."

Well, of course she is because you created that.

TRUDY

That's exactly it.

But good news stories and how everybody's doing wonderfully don't make good watching, right?

In a very short news cycle.

So watch this space.

How do you maintain compassion, kindness and emotional intelligence, which is something that women are so much better at, I truly believe, while also building a commercially strong business?

DI

You see, I don't see them as two separate things.

TRUDY

No.

DI

What I always say is that if you deliver the great care, the exceptional care we do, the money will look after itself.

And it has.

Because if your service is good, it will grow, and it will grow to the point it's meant to grow to.

And we're lucky, we're still growing.

But one day it will stop, and that's fine.

That's where we're meant to stop.

So some people would say I've been really fortunate that it's happened.

TRUDY

I don't believe in fortunate or luck.

You create your own fortune and luck, I truly believe.

DI

I believe so.

I believe it's happened because we put a lot of work in behind the scenes.

So I still personally interview every new carer that we take on because I want to see that they're compassionate.

Because if they're not, if they come into the interview and say, "I only want to work Saturdays and Sundays and I want to work night shifts," they're only after money.

They're not the sort of people I want.

If I cry in an interview because they tell me a beautiful story, they get the job every time.

The staff here know that I'm a sucker for a sad story.

But you hear some beautiful stories as to what made people come into this field.

So they're the people you want.

I find it hard to separate commercial and compassion and everything because I think they're joined together.

I'm lucky.

This is just who I'm meant to be.

I haven't had to work at it.

I don't have to get up in the morning and think, "Gee, I have to be compassionate today."

Sometimes I have to say, "Don't be so compassionate today."

Because I just naturally, like I had a meeting with someone recently, a staff member, which was a pretty harsh meeting.

She got upset and I was sitting here talking to her, and I felt a solitary tear run down my face.

Because I'm such an empath that seeing someone else cry, I couldn't stop myself.

TRUDY

No.

DI

So I mean, that's who I am.

I was born to be a nurse.

I was born to do this job.

Being compassionate and having kindness all the time is easy for me.

I can be terrible too.

Don't think I'm always nice.

TRUDY

Oh no, I understand that.

And it's interesting you say that because obviously Fempire, our core business is helping women to become business coaches and taking their experience and teaching them how to do that to create a bigger ripple effect.

But the thing that when I'm interviewing, and we don't accept just everybody, but interestingly enough and very similar to yourself, the thing that I am listening for is, "I want to help people."

The rest I can teach.

The rest we have a curriculum for that.

So actually the key thing is absolutely nothing about experience.

Experience helps, but it is having that internal empathy or that internal desire to want to serve people.

DI

Absolutely.

I always say you can train a monkey to wipe someone's bum, but you can't train a monkey to be compassionate.

So your piece of paper is no relevance to me at all.

What I want to see is compassion in the interview.

TRUDY

Yeah.

DI

And we all know that this might be controversial, but the RTO training system, anyone can get a certificate in the RTO training system.

So that doesn't tell me anything about your skills or your knowledge.

It means that you somehow got that bit of paper.

TRUDY

And also that you are...

DI

Yeah, that's right.

And I'm not putting down the people who genuinely work hard to get that certificate and do really well.

That's great.

But there are some who we know who don't get the bit of paper and then think they can work in the field.

Well, unless they're compassionate, they don't get to work with us.

But equally, if you don't have that bit of paper and you've got experience and you're a lovely person, you can get a job here as well.

Because we can teach you those things.

TRUDY

That's right.

How did your experience with cancer, divorce, grief of your parents and then workplace bullying shape the way you lead people?

DI

I lead with compassion.

I have to rein it in.

My biggest fault as a CEO is I'm too friendly and too compassionate at times, so that line becomes blurred.

And it's hard in a small business where I'm still involved a bit in everything.

So that's hard.

I'm very fair.

Incredibly fair.

Whilst you're giving to me, I give you twice as much.

But once you start not giving to me, then things change.

TRUDY

Then I'm a different person altogether.

And I think that's interesting that you say that, because again, the women that I work with, they often have teams of people, and that boundary setting is a huge thing that we often work on.

Because often they've started as a solopreneur, and then they've got this trusted sidekick or right-hand person that's come on board, and then the business has scaled, and they haven't necessarily taken that CEO shift in their own mind.

And so it then, as you know, can create culture problems and all of these sorts of things.

It's a critical thing to be able to shift and go, "Oh, the business is no longer what it once was. I need to lead."

I still can lead with compassion and empathy and values and all of those wonderful things, but I need to have that.

And I often say to people, when you get to a point in your business where it becomes more about respect, you want to be liked, but respect supersedes being liked at a point.

DI

And that can be really lonely too.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

DI

Because I don't have a life out of work, really.

I see my boys, but beyond that, I don't have much of a life.

So this is my social outlet as well, as tragic as that is.

I find if I don't sit and have lunch with them, I feel really lonely, disconnected.

I've now made the choice.

And it is lonely, especially being a single female in this role.

No one to go home and dump it on.

It's a really lonely existence.

And not only dump it on, but celebrate as well.

We'll get up to an amazing amount of money earned in a year, and I go home and tell the dog about it.

TRUDY

You know, it's not dinner and a solitary glass of champagne or something.

DI

We still have lunch together twice a week, so I'm still there and mixing because I don't want to be seen as the person that they can't...

TRUDY

No, no.

And it's a fine line, isn't it?

And it's the one thing that I have discovered later on in life, and I am a really big advocate of this now, is that you need to find your business tribe.

And it is about actually having those trusted women that potentially are not in competition with you, but also run businesses.

And I have one.

We go out to lunch probably once a month, once every six weeks, and it is that time where you can vent, you can just ask for advice.

It's really important.

I created that because I couldn't find it.

So it's an effort that you have to put in, but to me it was one of those efforts that has paid dividends for years now.

DI

Yeah.

I went to a women's business group early on, a coaching thing, and it just wasn't right for me.

TRUDY

No.

And there are lots of different versions.

DI

Yeah.

But I did meet one friend out of that who is now my marketing contract person, and she's the one I can ring up.

Because she owns her own business, I can debrief with her and know that it goes no further, which is great.

And I do have a leadership coach as well who works really closely with me.

TRUDY

Great.

DI

I think that, back to how did cancer and all of that change me, I think more than anything, it made me realise that we all front up to work looking like a certain type of person, but there's so much that goes on outside of work that people bring with them.

So it's about always having my door open for them to come into at any time.

Being a very fair boss.

I think children and families are really important.

So give time off to go to Mother's Day stalls or to school sports or whatever.

I don't delete those hours from their pay.

I still pay that.

We had two people working for us, sisters-in-law, and the father-in-law died.

Oh, actually, there was a third person.

Their daughter was here as well, one of the daughters.

So we were really small at that stage.

There were probably only six of us in the business, and three of them I said, "Just take two weeks off. I don't want to see you."

Because I know how hard grief is.

And until you lose your parents, you don't know how hard it is.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

DI

So I'm very, very kind to my staff.

And I think that's as a result of the divorce and the cancer.

TRUDY

Those life experiences.

And I lost my father eight years ago now, and I think those experiences really teach you so much about yourself, but also just develop a whole extra layer of how you then react and treat others.

Because until you, it's like I always truly believe until you have children, you probably are a little bit more selfish.

You have children and you learn truly what selflessness can be about.

DI

Absolutely.

TRUDY

So I think it's important.

DI

Losing Mum and Dad too also gave me another reason to succeed.

TRUDY

Of course.

DI

I was now the next generation, and I had to.

TRUDY

You are the legacy.

DI

Yeah, that's exactly right.

And my dad was so proud of me.

And my mum probably was, but she would never tell me.

But my dad used to tell me how proud of me he was.

A lot of what I do, he had an amazing work ethic, my father.

So a lot of what I do is in memory of him.

So to get up every day and work as hard as I can.

TRUDY

I love that.

What have you learnt about leading people that's most surprised you?

Because in a care business, I can imagine the emotional energy is very high.

DI

Yeah.

I think just when you think you know someone, you don't know them, is probably the biggest lesson.

So it's about that distance again and never getting too close.

And I had one staff member who, we had an iPad at reception for people to sign in, and it was connected to my iCloud, which gave her access to my messages.

So she'd then taken screenshots of personal messages and stuff.

TRUDY

Oh no.

DI

So that is something I would never have thought that a staff member who I had treated well and provided with a wage.

Really, that's all I have to do.

I only have to pay them.

TRUDY

Absolutely.

And provide the legislative requirements on a safe workplace and all of those sorts of things.

DI

So I actually don't have to be nice.

There's no rule that says I have to put Tim Tams and cans of Coke in the fridge.

No rules that say, "You've got something on tonight, go home early, get your hair done."

None of those rules exist.

But for someone to then turn on you like that and turn on you so ferociously really shocked me.

But it's a good lesson because now my bar of trust has been raised, and I'm very aware that you have no friends, really.

TRUDY

No.

And I think the other thing that I've always learnt is that no staff member will love your business the way that you do.

So you need to set your expectations around that.

Because what you sort of think you might do, or what they might do versus you, you are a place for them to come.

That's fabulous.

They might be very happy and very engaged.

But the reality is you are just one small part of their life.

DI

I was talking to someone this morning about this, and he made a great analogy.

He said, "That business is your baby. It's no one else's baby. You wouldn't want to wipe someone else's baby's pooey bum. So why would they want to do that to yours?"

And I thought, "That's exactly right."

I'm going to care for this baby far more than they are.

But that's hard to accept sometimes.

Especially, and I don't want to sound elitist and I don't want to sound like I'm a control freak, but I'm actually giving them a job, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if they committed.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm paying you to do it.

TRUDY

I think that is literally the complaint that I hear from every business owner, is, "I'm providing them with a lifestyle."

DI

Correct.

But in reality, when you stand back from that, they could go anywhere else and work, and they've chosen to come and work for you.

So they're kind of doing me a favour.

So yeah, it's your whole perception of it all, isn't it?

TRUDY

And your mindset that you choose to take.

And I think that's it.

I think it is that shift that we need to make.

As I've said, this season is all about The CEO Shift.

So we have some core questions.

It is literally what comes to mind, just really quick.

So what did you personally have to stop doing in order to become the CEO your business needed?

DI

I needed to stop being as involved in the everyday stuff in the business.

TRUDY

What does working on the business look like for you now?

DI

It often feels like I'm not doing anything because I'm not doing what I used to see as the hard work.

But for me, it looks like this sort of stuff, promoting the business, promoting myself as a leader.

It's also other networking events, and it's managing the bigger projects and the strategic planning for the business.

TRUDY

Right.

So you said you don't want to measure your success only in monetary terms, but according to your values.

What does success mean to you now?

DI

It means happiness above everything else, because there's no point in going through all of this if I'm not happy.

It means helping others.

It means being able to provide employment for other people.

And I take that really seriously.

TRUDY

It's a responsibility, I think.

DI

Yeah.

Especially with our casual workforce.

A lot of them are new immigrants and they have very little, so they rely on us for the most minuscule lifestyle that they have.

So that's a huge responsibility to me.

TRUDY

Do you think we still have outdated ideas about what strong leadership should look like?

DI

Absolutely.

Less so in female leadership, but I think some females too have learnt leadership under men and aren't good leaders either because they go for strength and power and all the stuff that just doesn't work.

TRUDY

And I think from a finance background, it was very competitive.

And often the women were the worst at that.

So it is learning to be a softer style of leader, more assertive than aggressive, I think, is the key there.

DI

Yeah, absolutely.

It's interesting.

People ask me who my competitors are, and my standard response is, "I don't have competitors because we do things differently."

Because I don't want to spend my time thinking about what other people are doing.

I spend my time making sure we're doing the best we can do.

So I don't measure myself against anyone else.

TRUDY

And I think, again, there used to be such a prescriptive way around what business fundamentals look like and what you should be aspiring to and all of these things.

And I think ultimately it's your business.

You run it as you see fit.

And if you need help, help is always there.

However, it's for no one, and going back to that success thing again, it's for no one to tell you what that looks like for you.

DI

Absolutely.

And it's for me, for living according to my values.

So there's no other business that's going to have exactly the same values as me.

So therefore, there's no direct comparison.

TRUDY

And I guess that leads into my next question.

How have you intentionally designed your business to support your life goals, not just revenue goals?

DI

My main life goal now, I guess, is to prepare for retirement because I'm 59.

I want to work for another three or four years, if I can do that.

I'll stay involved in the business, so I won't be here daily.

So I have to have the business at a point where I can sell it at that point or draw a wage from it.

TRUDY

Sure.

DI

And continue to not work but draw a wage, sort of thing.

But at the moment, I'm having to grow the business to get to that point because of what's happening in the NDIS.

So there's a bit of pressure and push at the moment.

My business values mirror my personal values to a large extent, so it's not hard for me.

TRUDY

It's all about authenticity, isn't it?

DI

It is.

It's absolutely about authenticity and confidence.

And as you said early in this podcast, you get to your 50s and you become a different woman.

You don't suffer fools lightly anymore.

Life's too short.

You don't even get angry that often, you just walk away a little bit.

TRUDY

No, it's just not worth it, is it?

I just do not want the drama.

DI

No.

And with my boys, I say, because they're both adults now, but I've got a hole in my tongue from the amount of time I bite my tongue when I'm around them.

And I'm sure every parent of adult children has the same.

So it's about learning to let go of a lot of stuff and focus on the important stuff in life.

Because I think the 50s is the decade where you really start to see you go into your 60s and then it's all, you're not guaranteed much longer after that, really.

TRUDY

No.

And that's what I always say.

You sit back and reflect, and I think, "Well, it's kind of three quarters over now."

So what am I going to do with that next quarter?

Because it's super important, right?

DI

And I think that also comes about when your parents pass away.

TRUDY

Yes.

DI

Because you now know you're the next generation.

TRUDY

Well, that's right.

You're not so infallible anymore.

What's one thing business owners need to stop doing if they want to grow sustainably?

DI

I would say they need to stop worrying about what other people are telling them and be true to themselves.

TRUDY

Love that.

What advice would you give to the woman who is listening today who feels that life has knocked her down too many times to start again?

DI

It's tough.

It's not an easy road, but take your time and you can get back up again.

And you don't have to do it overnight.

Just one little thing per day.

And make a note of that.

Gratitude journals are fantastic for saying what you're thankful for and changing your mindset to a positive one rather than, "What I haven't got," but, "What have I achieved today?"

And I think that's a really good way to just notice your positives.

And they don't have to be fantastic positives.

They don't have to be, "I made a million dollars today."

It can be, "I've got a house to live in."

TRUDY

Or, "I got out of bed."

DI

I got out of bed.

I ate lunch today.

Whatever it may be.

I smiled today.

Because there were many days for probably many weeks or months that I didn't smile.

And so when you start to know you're smiling and laughing again, you know that's it.

TRUDY

I've found some joy in something.

DI

Yes.

And also my other hint is, I'm reading a book at the moment called Where the Light Comes In, I think, and I can't remember the author.

But it's a great book about mindset.

And he talks about not having expectations.

And I've adapted that just because I got sick of being let down.

But I've actually adapted the right thing, apparently.

So I don't have expectations for anything.

Because if I buy a ticket to a concert, I go out and I see it.

If it wasn't great, I got out of the house.

That's a good thing.

That's amazing.

How lucky am I?

If I come to work and have a bad day, then I've come to work and I've experienced that and I've learnt from it.

So no expectations is a great way to live, I think.

And then you just celebrate the joy and you let the other stuff wash away.

TRUDY

Yeah.

So looking back now, what are you most proud of?

Not just in the business, but in the woman that you have become.

DI

I'm really proud that I'm living as a completely independent woman.

Sold the marital house, bought a new house, developed my own lifestyle there.

Really proud of who I am.

In the business, I'm most proud of the care we deliver every day and the difference we make to people's lives.

TRUDY

And both of those, you're justifiably proud.

Congratulations.

DI

Thank you.

TRUDY

So if there was one message you wanted women to take away from your story, what would it be?

DI

Be true to yourself and never let anyone else determine who you should be.

And don't stay too long in a marriage.

TRUDY

No.

I think there would be both of us that would actually support that statement.

Di, thank you so much for your time today and for sharing your story, your journey, your vulnerability.

It is certainly something that I'm sure there are many women out there it will resonate with, and that it will hopefully give them the courage, the impetus to do something, whatever that may be, whatever is right for them.

I really appreciate you.

If you'd like to get in touch with Di, we'll have all of her contact details in the show notes.

She's recently written a book that we will also put in there so that you can learn a little bit more about her journey.

Thank you so much for taking the time.

I know you're a busy lady, but listening to your story is inspiring.

And I am sure that there will be plenty of people out there that would like to connect with you.

So thank you again for your time.

DI

Thank you so much for allowing me to be on here.

It's been great.

Thanks, Trudy.

TRUDY

Thank you for joining me on this episode of Fempire Rising.

If today's conversation resonated with you, share it with another woman in business who needs to hear it.

And remember, the goal is not to do more. The goal is to lead better.

If you'd like to learn more about working with a Fempire Certified Business Coach, visit us at fempire.com.au and follow Fempire on social media.

And if you'd like to connect with today's guest, you'll find all their details in the show notes.

Just search for Fempire. We're easy to find.

Until next time, keep rising.