Bolder Business with Paul Fontanelli
Welcome to Bolder Business with Paul Fontanelli — where real entrepreneurs talk real business. Each week, Paul sits down with founders, leaders, and creative thinkers to uncover what it really takes to build something bold. From scaling Bolder Adventure Park into a multi-million-dollar brand to experimenting with new ventures, Paul shares the lessons, wins, and failures that shape the entrepreneurial journey. Whether you’re building your first idea or growing your tenth, this podcast will challenge you to think bigger, move faster, and stay bolder in business and in life.
Bolder Business with Paul Fontanelli
Ep 003: How to Raise Capital from Investors Part 1 - The Art
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In this episode, Paul Fontanelli talks with investor Jake Jenkins and strategist Lance Broadway about the mindset and structure behind successful fundraising. Together, they unpack how Paul raised capital from 55 investors, the lessons learned through delays and a pandemic, and how conviction, story, and strategy turn belief into real checks.
Learn how to make your pitch “kitchen-table repeatable,” build credibility, and navigate the balance between equity, debt, and investor expectations.
If you’re raising capital or planning your first fund, this episode is your roadmap from idea to committed cash.
Setting The Table: Why Fundraising
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to the Boulder Business Podcast. I'm Paul Fontanelli. I'm the founder and CEO of Boulder Adventure Park. But on this podcast, we just talk about business, anything related to entrepreneurship, et cetera. Today we have two awesome guests. We have Jake Jenkins and Lance Broadway. Excited to have one awesome guest. There you go.
SPEAKER_02I'll take, I'll take one.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. The fun thing about Jake is Jake is an investor in Boulder. An accredited investor. That's exactly right, which we will talk about. And then he's also in the process of kind of looking to raise some money for their own project that they're working on, which we'll talk a little bit about. And so the goal of today is let's just talk about raising money, which is a very interesting topic. It is. Tons of different ways that it can happen. Sure, throughout this, I'll talk a little bit about how we raise money for Boulder. But let's start first with uh, you know, Jake, you reached out to me, so kind of catch us up.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for taking the time. And I know your time's valuable. No, this is great. Um, but you know, I've known you a long time, 25 years or so. I'll tell a quick story of when I first met you. You remember I was 16 years old. I was on a parents' weekend at tech visiting my brother, and I walked into a Sigma New house party. Yeah. I think my parents dropped me off. Oh, that's fantastic. The Statute of Limitations has gone far enough that they're probably out of the woods there. But I walked in and you were uh, I think on a counter, maybe on a stove. Oh, this is great. I was the wild ones. That guy is a guy who's going somewhere. So look at me and say, I'm a great judge of character. I appreciate who we are. But it was uh, you know, I've known you a long time and and and kept up with you, been an investor in Boulder. And yeah. So we uh Lance and I were you know, we've been working with a group for about seven years who has their own fund. Yeah, we've been kind of finding deals for them. It's been a great seven-year run. And as we've noticed, is that we've kind of made them more and more money. Sure. And deals have become you know been plentiful for the most part. But as as growing in wealth and age and responsibilities, they're getting more and more picky. And we're pitching deals that we feel like, man, somebody needs to get this. And we thought, what if we did our own fund? And it just kind of just kind of came out of out of the blue, and I said, Man, I I know a guy to talk to, so I'm called you Paul. And then we, you know, here we are, kind of at the very genesis of us just kind of thinking the idea of like, it sounds impossible. And that's that's kind of the thing I've learned uh about life through the years, is like sometimes you just think things you can't do them. Yeah, and then maybe look into them and certain things you thought are gonna be easy are gonna be hard, certain things you thought are impossible or easier than you thought. So I want to reach out to you and get your opinion on kind of how we go forward from here.
The Seven-Year Deal Flow Backstory
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it makes perfect sense. One of my favorite quotes of all time. I use it on this podcast all the time. Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Sure. That's Henry Ford. And so it's right. If you go into this raising money mindset of this is too hard, I can't do this, you've you've set yourself up to fail before you've even started. Um, because one thing I always like to think about, every business around started somewhere. Even the biggest ones. Sure. I mean, Walmarts, Amazon, they all just started with one person with an idea. So it just you have to come up with a plan, get after it, and believe that you can, first and foremost. So, I mean, the fact that y'all are here, that you're talking about it, is a great first step. Yeah, and I think your use case of you've experienced seven years doing these types of deals, and now the the group you've been working with is bigger, maybe more mature than some of the deals that you've got coming, it makes perfect sense. Like start this second one with y'all leading it. And I think that's a great idea. So let's dive in. We got to talk about raising money. What we'll do today is we're gonna talk more about the art of raising money. We're gonna talk about how it works, generally, you know, how to get after money, how to do a pitch deck, how to present to people, what you're gonna go through from investors and the ups and downs of that. We're gonna talk about the art of it. When it comes to the science, like the technical, here's the exact numbers, here's the filings you have to do. That's gonna be an attorney that's gonna guide you on that. I have an amazing attorney for that that I'll introduce you to. His name is Brett Senkis, senkislaw.com. It's a plug for him because he's phenomenal. He did it all for us for Boulder. We'll probably bring him on a podcast with you if you want. But so that's just a disclaimer for those listening is like we're not gonna get into all the technical specs because they change an attorney. Really needs to do that. But the art of raising money candidly is really what success lives and breathes by. Anybody can hire an attorney, anybody can kind of work through the logistical steps of raising money, but the success of raising money really comes down to the grind. I shared this with y'all before we went on air, but for Boulder, we have about 55 investors, of which you're one of them. I must have reached out to, not full pitched, but reached out to over a thousand people. Everybody that I ever interacted with at some point, I reached out to. And you just have to head into raising money and understand you're gonna get no 10 times more than you're gonna get a yes. So that's the headline of what we're gonna talk about today. Um, when you reached out, did you reach out?
SPEAKER_02Oh, there's phone calls, yep, emails, all the above.
Mindset: Believe You Can
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it was definitely all the above. You want to work through almost a level of like comfort for yourself first. Start with your closest friends and family that you know might have an interest and might have the financial ability to do it, right? You never know anyone's personal financial situation that well, but you can usually get a pretty good handle on like who may be able to invest. And it's just a conversation with your closest friends and family first. Like any investor out there is gonna want to see that you are invested in it yourself, either financially, or if you can't invest it yourself financially, you're all in time-wise, right? Because some people raising money as the entrepreneur don't have the financial means to put their own money into it, and others do, but an investor is gonna wanna see you're committed more than they are, right? Nobody wants to put$100,000 into something that somebody else didn't put any money into and is not really spending any of their time on. It's just kind of like a little oh side thing. Like, why would I put this much into it if you're not putting that much into it? So they're gonna always want to see that you are as all in as you can be for what they're investing in. And so that's where I'll talk about my personal experience, right? Like we put our own financial money into it first. We were the first dollars in. And when we used that, then we went to raise money. And I started with my closest friends, closest family. We did kind of a smaller step stool of a raise. Um, and then before I raised a single dollar from someone else, even friends or family, I was all in full time. I quit my job. I was so it gave the investors an understanding of okay, they've got financial in investment of their own, and now he's all in on his work, that gives them confidence. So I think that's key is showing your commitment, which your experience in and of itself is huge, having done this for seven years, which I didn't have that, right? I was starting a business that I had not done before.
SPEAKER_01Um no one had done before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Totally unique and different. Um, exactly. So that that's always harder, but which is why me being all in more was even that much more important. Um, but in y'all's case, you've got the experience, you've got the knowledge, the whereabouts, the deal flow is already coming to you. Like those are huge advantages that we're gonna want to help you share the story of um when it comes to reaching out to people. But to come back to the point, and then I'll pause, start with the more likely successes instead of trying to hit the home runs right out of the gate. Like, start with the people you can have a dinner with and just talk openly and get their feedback, get their questions. They're gonna ask you good questions that feed into other things. And you're gonna get a lot of no's. A lot of no's. And you're gonna get no's from people that you thought were gonna be yeses. Don't take offense to it. You don't know anyone's financial situation. You don't know what they're going through, you don't know where they're at personally at that time, you don't know where they're at professionally at that time. But every meeting is valuable because you're gonna have more and more chances to talk about it, get questions, etc. So expect to bat about less than a hundred, uh, probably even less than that. I mean, you're probably gonna have to pitch. I in my case, I had to pitch, I mean, a thousand for fifty-five. I don't know the math right off the top of my head, but you get the point. It it's it's hard.
SPEAKER_01I know we haven't talked for seven years and haven't seen a Christmas card, but I need money. Yeah. So it's gonna be some of those type of conversations. That's absolutely right.
SPEAKER_00That is the that is the awkward part of some people you're reaching out to that you haven't connected with. Um, and I think that's where it's just like, hey, this is something I think you'd be interested in. Because you also want to, you have to believe yourself, which I fully did uh and still do, that this is an opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I know y'all's success you've had in the prior seven years, that when you reach out to people, like you should feel confident, like, hey, I'm giving you a chance, which there's no obligation. You always make sure you're clear with people. Like, I'm not putting you in a difficult spot. I don't want you to feel obligated. But like, we believe in this so much that we do want to bring it to you and see if you have an interest.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, we do, so that's uh that's gonna be the easier part, is the artistic side of this. It actually gets me excited. Good. It's the other stuff that kind of scares me more than anything, which I know is uh, you know, uh past year and you know, maybe in another time with the attorney, I think we get into some of that stuff.
SPEAKER_00But let's talk a little bit about it. What scares you the most?
SPEAKER_01It's just uh that's not I'm I think a more is it left brain, right brain, uh more artistic side of enjoy the pitch. Okay, the the other stuff I almost need a secretary for. You know, I need somebody else to almost handle that kind of stuff because it's just I I I can't I think once I get into it, I'm more familiar with it. Oh, it's true, it's true. Look at every time.
The Art vs. Science Of Capital
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, the benefit of y'all too is there's two of you, and you're gonna be able to know who's better at what. Yeah, yeah. Um and divide and conquer. Sure. And you're gonna bring a team in, like there is gonna be an attorney involved. There just has to be at this level. Um and so that's where I would say play to your strengths. Um, it's anything in business. A lot of times we focus in business on our weaknesses. Oh, I gotta get better at this. Oh, I need to get coaching on that. Play to your strengths. I just watched the movie yesterday, The Amateur. Have you seen it? Oh, I haven't seen it. Awesome movie. Never heard of it. What's it about? Brand new, just came out. It's about a guy, and I don't want to be a spoiler alert, but his, and this happens in the early part of the movie, but his wife gets killed. It's like a conspiracy, and he works for the CIA and he's a computer guy.
SPEAKER_02Oh, this is new. This is new. It's brand new.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He's a computer guy, and like he is unbelievable on the computer. And he tries to get trained on the physical art of like being a CIA, like operative, like born identity kind of guy, and that's so not his strength that he eventually realizes that and he goes after the bad guys with his strengths, not the born identity, like beat them up kind of guy.
SPEAKER_02And he obviously who played Freddie Mercury, exactly. I forget his name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh amazing actor, great movie. Point being play to your strengths. And when you have two people, y'all each have different strengths, and then you're gonna bring an attorney in that handles all the stuff that you're not good at. That's that's the key.
SPEAKER_01Oh, we're talking movies. Yeah. My wife and I were out and had a kind of a night to ourselves. It was pretty rare. Of course. And we uh we ended up at the movies we we saw Sinners, Michael B. Jordan. I didn't know anything about it going in. That's because Michael B. Jordan was in there. I liked uh Creed. Creed's a great movie. So we saw his movies. Have you all heard about this movie Sinners?
SPEAKER_00I've seen the poster, but that's it.
SPEAKER_01So we'd seen. So we've been in there and it's a it's a 1920s kind of they come back from Chicago and they're come back to a rural south and kind of start a business. I didn't know anything about it. Like half of the movie, it turns into a vampire movie. You don't know it going in. It's like it's like makes it even better. So I kind of hate spoiling it. But if you watch the trailer, you'd definitely see it. You probably know that. I'd not seen even the trailer, and to view it in that, it was off. It was a great movie. Yeah. I probably wouldn't even see it. Yeah. I probably wouldn't even go see a vampire movie with Michael B. Jordan. I don't know. That's not something I would I'd go see. And it was off. It was a great, great movie. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00I love finding movies and not watching the trailer. What am I gonna get? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So that's I guess the advice I'd give you is you're gonna be scared about some things, you're gonna be hesitant about some things. Like number one, believe that you can. And number two, play to your strengths and fill in the gaps with you know, your team, with people that you can hire onto the role. I mean, we don't know the exact money y'all are raising. I don't think we're getting to that level of specifics today, but knowing that it is sizable amounts for real estate deals, you're gonna want to put a team in place to handle the things that you're not good at and don't know.
SPEAKER_02You're starting off with the people you know and the people that you think are your closest wins. Yep. Um, you know, what were because you hadn't never done this before. No. So this is your first. Yeah. That's amazing. This is his very first time he and he built this. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, but you didn't how did you learn to do it? Did you have someone that told you? Would you have a mentor as well? Did you even because we have tons of data about how to package that data and present it even to our closest and best wins is where we I don't know.
SPEAKER_00In a way, um, I didn't have a mentor on the art of raising money. Like I created the pitch deck, I I kind of helped figure out how I wanted the the deal to work. Because the other thing you got to figure out with the attorneys is like, what's the offer to the investors? What percentage do they get? What's your valuation, or how do the distribution's gonna work? Like, all that has to be figured out. So that is where the attorney helped me. We kind of worked through different options. I I guess I did get mentored in a few different ways. Uh, one of the people I got introduced to very early on as a CFO of a private equity company. He was probably the number, the second person in on the boulder deal. And he put a small amount in, but based on him investing, I was able to say, I think I'm gonna structure it like this. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01Did he force you to do a podcast with him?
Start With Inner Circle Outreach
SPEAKER_00No, I haven't even brought him on the podcast yet. No, it was all it was all uh behind the scenes. Yeah, we kind of put you on the spot here, Jake, didn't we? I didn't force. I invited you to the podcast. I was a joke in here. Bring it, bring it, baby. Um, but he was awesome. So you're gonna want, and that's probably the role I can play for you of like, okay, how can deals work? How how might what might be attractive to investors? And honestly, that's where your seven years of experience are probably gonna help you quite a bit, too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00So I I had a mentor there to kind of help me think of the flow and the structure for investors' perspective financially. And then what we also had was we did a feasibility study on the business where I hired someone with industry experience to look at okay, the revenue model, the offering, the location, the um population, all of that. They ran a full analysis that gave me something to present to investors from a pro forma, which is kind of your projections, right? That had some credibility to it. It wasn't just me making up numbers that I thought would look good. It was based on an industry expert putting a plan together. And so that those, I guess, were the two mentors I had. One was how can I present something to investors that's attractive to investors of that level that are used to seeing pitches like this? And so the CFO of the private equity company, his name's Willie, he helped me a lot on that, and then having a pro forma, the projections based on some level of experience. Those two things gave me some level of credibility for something I hadn't done before. And then taking that, creating the pitch deck in PowerPoint, like that was just something I'd done many times creating business decks. And so that was just create slides, make it look good, tell a story. Storytelling is key. When you're raising money, when you're doing anything, having a story with it that people can connect to is powerful. And so my pitch deck was if I recall, I'm kind of going off the top of my head here. The first third of it was telling the story. How to come up with the idea, how did we design the park? What's the park going to look like, feel like, get people kind of excited about the what? Then we went into the projections in the pro form of here's how we think it's gonna make money, and here's the revenue, and here's the different options, and then we closed it with here's how that turns into an investment opportunity for you. So having kind of a strategy with your pitch deck is key.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think your your theme of your your your pitch deck was uh was all in. Oh, yeah. That was really it. You were all in as you could be, and it just came across as authentic, which I'm it was, and that makes it easier to be authentic when you are being authentic. Yeah. Um, but that that you know, I I didn't need to get to the numbers. Yeah, because I was investing in the guy, you know what I mean? And that's that's something I would do every time. I love it. I think that's more important than than the numbers. But so I was I was sold kind of before you know that that first part, that was probably probably in. So yeah, uh, I think that that's that's that's so true. Now we're gonna be on this side of it, but you've got to have people uh hooked a little before you get into even the numbers of it, which is or risk, right? A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02I so I think I that's where I really screw up on certain things because even on on some of the deals we've pitched now and currently, um, I don't think I'm telling the story good enough. Yep. Um because I'm all data. Because I in my mind, I just show, dude, look at I have hundreds of any question you can ask, I can answer it with data.
SPEAKER_01And intensely.
SPEAKER_02And probably too. Well, everyone likes that or all, right?
SPEAKER_01And so here's the when prescribed.
SPEAKER_02Of course. Um, and so I I do get probably caught up in the weeds with like overwhelming them with data. Yep. And then when I'm asked about risk, I because I feel like I've you have so much data, I can be a hundred percent honest with the risk, but I think it's maybe too honest in a sense. Not not that you don't want to be honest about the risk, but I don't think I'd how I weave that into the story, I think it comes off as like very this is very risky when it's really not. Does that make sense? I don't think I'm probably more risky than it is. That's what yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and that's not a bad thing. Like, let's be real clear about that. Like everybody needs to understand the risk, but I think what you're saying is it's all about what level of detail do you need to give to the investors. You know, part of the technical side, which we won't go as much into, you're only allowed to pitch accredited investors. There is some rules as far as number of non-accredited investors you can get, things like that. Um, but again, that we're getting into the attorney stuff now. But you're gonna only want to pitch people that cool can can understand the risk inherently, and then your job is to educate them on the risk of this specific opportunity based on the level of info that they need. Yeah, I guess is is the way I'm and I'm I'm dancing around this a little bit because I I don't ever want someone to not understand the risk of an investment, but you can overwhelm people that they don't need the info. Like Jake just said, and let's use Jake's comment, that when it came to investing in Boulder, he didn't care as much about the numbers. He was investing in the vision uh in me, as he said. And I think you're gonna find that's way more common than you think.
SPEAKER_01In Epic. Uh I was a big epic believer. I love the whole development here. That's where we are right now. Exactly. So it's it was growing for you. I mean, you know, the city of Grand Prairie had invested in you. Uh, you know, it was just a lot more some of that's more technical, some of that is more financial, that that that had me more comfortable. But it was kind of all of it together. Yes, the package. Correct, correct.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, because to this day, a lot of people still tell me, like, I invested in you, I invested in, you know, this being bolder. They want the returns, of course, but they also understand like there's there's risk to it. And so don't underestimate the power of the story and don't underestimate the power of people are gonna invest in you guys, in you, and they're gonna trust that you know what you're doing and you know how to get after it. They do need to understand the risk, but that shouldn't be the only conversation. Yeah, I think if like like my pitch deck had those three parts, you know, the story, the opportunity, and then the investment. Make sure you come up with what those three points are. Usually three is usually a good number to present things, and just make sure it's not all data, data, data. Because people's eyes will glaze over. I've seen it, and they more want to connect to you.
SPEAKER_02Story. That's the one thing that we really haven't the story. Is the data. Yeah. And that's that's the problem.
Show Commitment: Time And Money
SPEAKER_01Well, currently we have an in-house, we don't really have a story to tell as far as uh the way we're currently structured. It's not, it's it would be a little different on this this venture that we don't have an example.
SPEAKER_00I think you do. I don't know enough about what y'all are doing, but and if I share too much, just let me know. Um, but y'all have seven years of experience. What I would do is is pick one example of a profitable deal that you did and bring it to life. Oh, sure. Like, don't just show me the numbers. Show me some photos, show me some uh ups and downs. People don't want to just nobody, I don't think investors always want to invest in something that's gonna be a straight line, an escalator going up, but the reality is it's a valley of ups and downs. And so if you can tell a story of a deal that uh illustrates your experience, your knowledge, and then that story is sharing pictures, and here's how you got the opportunity, and here's where it went good, and here's where it went different than expected, they're tied into that story. And then you say, and here's how it played out, and here's the numbers, and then you can transition into the numbers. That way they're really connected to whatever that particular deal was, and then you say, Look, that deal's done, but we have other deals similar to it that we're seeing that could yield similar results.
SPEAKER_02Sure. How did you handle timing of it all? Yeah, I guess I'm sure the the analyst helps you pick a time frame, but you know, in some of the deals we've done, um, we're pretty good with the projections. Yeah. We've been doing it so long. If this is how this deal is most likely going to play out, this is what you're looking at for us, how much money everyone can make. The one thing that is tough for us to predict, and though I still would say we're good at it, is timing. Oh, of course. Because there's so much out of our control. Yep. Um, how did you how did you package that and deliver that to your investors?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, mine was similar. Um a couple things. One, I think you've got to be upfront about that, that you know, the return timeline is a projection and it may go faster, may go slower. Everyone's gonna understand that. But what I felt helped um boulder in our raise was we did it in tranches. So I was able to look and say, okay, if I need seven million dollars raised, I really only need$500,000 for the next six to nine months to be able to get the architectural plans going, to be able to get engineering going, to be able to get the attorney paid to raise the rest of the money, whatever it ends up being. And so I just went after that first$500,000 and I created different, not classes, but that's the easiest word to use, but different opportunities for investors. So those that invested very, very early on got a slightly enhanced opportunity because they came in very early on when there's more risk to the deal, right? And so I raised, I think I did it in four different tranches. The one was the very first dollars in, they got something extra. And then the next one was like the next million was going to get us this much further along in the project. They got a little bit more extra. And then it came to the third tranche, which was now we need to raise the rest of the money so that we can break ground and start and get the debt financing, right? And then the fourth phase was during construction, things went over, which happens and we had to do an extra raise, right? And so I think the reality is based on your experience, you've just got to look at how much you need when you need it, and don't feel like if you have to raise, let's say, a million dollars. You may not need to raise a million dollars all at the same time. Raise it in phases and reward those that come in the very first phase with a little extra because there's the risk that you don't raise the rest of it and it poof goes to nothing. I mean, that's the reality of these kind of investments that the investors have to understand. But that's I think the key.
SPEAKER_01You have a pandemic plan when you start.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was awesome. So try raising money for an indoor uh family entertainment center when the world is shut down. There's some function.
SPEAKER_01Everything going up. It was tough.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it was very tough. Yeah, I remember I wanted to break ground in um June of 2019. I quit my job in May of 2019. I was like, oh, we'll break ground a couple months. We broke ground two years later. It took two years just to even break ground. I thought it was gonna take two months. And it took five years from the first idea to opening day. It takes time.
SPEAKER_02When you so you know, in these tranches, you mentioned earlier, I don't remember if we were recording it, but you mentioned you probably pitched a thousand people to get 55.
Story First, Then Numbers
SPEAKER_00Not pitched, but reached out to reached out to a lot of them just don't respond.
SPEAKER_02I don't even know a thousand people. Yeah. So how did how did you did you know a thousand people?
SPEAKER_00Or did you how did you get these other people? I called it the spider web. So you know one person that knows four or five, and then that four or five might know four or five others. So you just have to try to get the meetings with who you can, and then you kind of close it with like, do you know of anyone else that might be interested in this? Okay. Um and and ask them genuinely. Like, don't don't put them on the spot, like you must give me three names before we leave, like a timeshare type thing. It's just like, you know, hey, I I'm trying to reach as many people as I can. Do you know anyone else that would be interested? Um, and to to raise money from an accredited investor, you do have to know them. Like you can't this is all getting into the attorney stuff. You can't cold call. That's exactly right. Now, if you want to cold call, there's a different regulation that you would file under that has different rules and guidelines. And it basically comes down to what level of checking and confirmation has to be done to confirm they're a credit investor. Like if you know the people and you have, and again, I'm getting into attorney stuff, so let me disclaim that this is not advice. This is more just my understanding of it. The attorney will tell you for sure. But if you're cold calling and just reaching out to anybody, you would have to validate that they are an accredit investor. They have to either submit a bank statement or an income, W 2, whatever it is, to a third party who can validate it. That's if you're just going to anybody in the world. If you know people like I knew Jake, I knew his experience, I knew his, you know, education background, that I had good reason to understand he was an accredited investor. So he then has to check the box that says, I am an accredited investor because I know these requirements, and I have good reason to believe that because I know him. I was under that process. And so I guess it all depends how you're reaching out to people. If you do start going into just like, hey, this is the first time we've ever met, good to meet you, you're gonna have a different level of even if Jake knows me.
SPEAKER_02But if Jake knows me, who I've never met you, because he knows me and says, hey, you ought to hear this.
SPEAKER_00Is that I I think that's where I want Brett, the attorney, to kind of help us on that side of it. But the bottom line is like when I say I reached out to a thousand people, like go look at your social media and add up how many people you're connected to on Facebook, how many people you're connected to on LinkedIn, how many you're gonna see it's a lot of people. And to Jake's point earlier, it might be someone you haven't talked to in four or five years and and and kept up with as much, but the reality is like they still know you, you still know them, you just haven't, you know.
SPEAKER_01And you're presenting them an opportunity. Well, that's like seriously, and I I I think we both believe this is truly an opportunity. This is worth your time. Absolutely. And you gotta believe that or you're not doing anything worth worth anything.
SPEAKER_00So and then the last thing I'll say on the legal side of it, let the attorney guide you. Okay. It's just that simple. Um they know what they're doing, they know who you can present to, who you can't, what you need to do. That will take care of itself. You'll get comfortable with that pretty easy.
SPEAKER_01I remember the credit investor document because it's like a six-page document you sign to the bottom of every page, or at least initially. Oh, yeah, sure. And every page goes, this is probably gonna lose money. Absolutely. It's like most of these things lose money. That's right. It's like it's almost talking you out of it.
SPEAKER_00It's like it's like correct. This is super risky, you better know. That's right. And then you sign it again. That's right. That's why you, as the person raising the money, need those documents there to protect you and the investor to say, this is risky. Yeah. And you know, that is the reality of it, to Lance's point earlier of when he's educating on the risk, that you should never hide the risk. And those documents definitely paint the dirty picture, but they need to.
SPEAKER_02So you never had so when you were doing um raising money, it wasn't, and this is just in my head because I've never done this. This wasn't I'm I've I've put it out on a calendar or I've told people, hey, on the 5th, come meet me and I've got I'm in a conference room, did you know everyone that was coming in or could you Yeah, I did. Okay, so you couldn't have just put on Facebook, hey If you can boulder, yes. You'd be gonna be you have to have the different filing.
SPEAKER_00That's correct. Okay. There's a certain filing for what they call public advertising of the offer. If you're gonna publicly advertise it, you just have to re file it under a different regulation and you're gonna have more stringent requirements on validating who the investors are. Understood. So that Joey doesn't walk by your pitch meeting and want free dinner and then get suckered into investing his entire life savings of$5,000 into your deal and he loses it and it puts him on like, right? Like that's if you're going to the public in an advertising type position, you're gonna have more stringent requirements. Okay. Whereas we did one meeting, it was actually here at the Epic where we got all the investors together that were considering it. And I did a presentation, we went around to the sites, but it was all people I knew that had already been given the opportunity, and this was just a forum for them to come together. But yeah, it really comes down to more how are you putting the deal out there? Is it Truly private and known people. That's one set of requirements. Versus is it just, hey, I posted this on Facebook? Like I never posted and couldn't post the deal on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn because I wasn't under that reg.
Handling Risk Without Overload
SPEAKER_01Speaking of your spider web, so I yeah, like you know, uh we you certainly do. I actually went to four of my buddies when we were looking for the best. And it was funny because we we me and these five guys wanted to before Boulder. Yeah, we all wanted to get in business together. We all have meeting what can we do? We we were gonna do an amusement park type, we were gonna do uh top golf or baseball. I remember that. And we were gonna we're who was gonna quit their job was the thing. You know, okay, we had the meetings, we were really we dude, we'd gone to Boston and looked at the hit tracks and how we could do it in a way so we'd done all the except no one was willing to really do it. Do you know what I mean? To really do it, we're gonna have to kind of have a meeting like that. But we just it just kind of fell apart and and life started getting real and people started having kids and it just yeah, it just didn't happen for us. So when it when your pitch came to me, that's what man, it would be fun, and that's how I pitched to them.
SPEAKER_00I love it.
SPEAKER_01Uh on behalf of you, it's like, dude, it'd be it'd be fun to watch someone else do what we talked about doing, and and and that's get a front row seat. So that got that got you know four more people interested in your story, and then you know, once you see the pitch, it was uh they were kind of sold as well. So I love it. That that that's the kind of stuff that can happen as well, is uh, you know, your your people you pitch to pitch to others.
SPEAKER_00Yep, and your your story there of you had a really good business idea that you know four or five of your friends were really into, but nobody was willing to put everything on it, is exactly why you need to show that to investors that you are all in. Because imagine if you guys had gone and raised a hundred thousand dollars for that idea, but none of y'all went all in. Whoever put that hundred grand in would have had everything to risk and nobody else kind of all in with it. And so that's where once you can show, hey, this is our experience, this is how we're all in, this is what we're doing for it. Investors are gonna come behind it a lot easier. Because if we still think it would have worked. I agree. There's one of them in Austin. I know. We were following that one. I bet it's never too late. It's never too late.
SPEAKER_01We'll see.
SPEAKER_00Still still not willing to equip my depths. There you go. Yep, exactly. All right, good chat so far. Any other questions or stories we want to talk about?
SPEAKER_02So when you were, you know, you mentioned earlier that you had put, and I don't know how much you can share here, but you when you had already shown investors, hey, this is how much of my own money I put in, what correlation was that? Because for instance, if you say, Hey, I have a hundred dollars in, I think you're more likely to get a hundred dollars from people. Yeah. Um yeah, exactly. Versus, hey, I've got five bucks in, can you give me a hundred? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, is did the attorneys ever tell you or did anyone ever recommend a certain number or certain ratio of if you're gonna put in this, you can more than likely expect this.
SPEAKER_00Good question. Um, I think what you outlined, a lot of investors do inherently think about like, okay, if you put$50,000 in, I'll put$50,000 in. But towards the end of the pitching, it didn't matter as much of what I put in. I put in a significant amount, but I put in as much as I could. But in my case, my quitting my job was an exponentially bigger number than you could quantify because I was making at the time$250,000,$300,000 a year, and that went to zero for two and a half years. I mean,$300,000 for two and a half years, that's almost a million dollars of lost income that I can't show on the cap table that I invested, but you bet that was an investment, right? I mean, I went two and a half years with almost three years, actually, with zero um compared to what I was making. And so I think you just don't feel like, oh, I must do this dollar amount because that's what I want to ask others for. Everybody's in a different financial situation. Everyone's gonna make decisions based on different things. You have to do what's right for you. Um, but my point is as long as you can make the help the investors feel confident that they're not gonna invest in something that you're gonna change your mind on or just walk away from if it gets hard is what they're really looking for.
SPEAKER_01And I think we have a we have a track record of deals that I think. Exactly. It's very good.
SPEAKER_00Data is not a problem. That's gonna help y'all a lot. Yeah, uh, and that's a big difference. Of mine was hey, this is a vision, it's a future.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Probably the toughest pitch.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it was definitely tough. Probably the toughest pitch. Whereas y'all have done this, you're doing this, this is your job, you're good at it, it's worked. I think in y'all's case, you just need the help figuring out the structure of how to raise money, the the logistical side of it, and then creating the story and getting in front of enough people.
SPEAKER_01When was when was Boulder in your mind first?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it was was 2017, was it 2018? It was November of 2017.
SPEAKER_01Goodness, great.
SPEAKER_00It was the first idea.
SPEAKER_01It's amazing how entertainment has blown up since. Growing up in this area, there was nothing to do. Go to the movies or go out to eat. That was it. And six flags. Yep. Now it's like something everywhere. Every year. And that's what's making the business tough. Yeah, it is. I imagine so, but it's just amazing how much there is to do.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01But there just wasn't. A couple decades ago. Totally. It's wild.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Continues to how long um when you so let for um if not including the money you put in, yep. Just strictly invest your money, how long did it take for you had enough where you could start? Could you have started? Yeah. I'm sure you could have started with the money that you and your family put in, but that money aside, how long would it have taken to even get going based on the time you put in to raise money?
Finding Mentors And Credibility
SPEAKER_00That's where it's perfect. That was my first tranche, right? Like the first phase of non-personal money was what got the ball going. And that was I said 500,000 earlier, I think it was 300,000, is what really got us going. And that came from all very close friends and family that had heard about the idea and the thoughts before it came time. And they were candidly investing in me, in the idea that not so much the deal, right? Because the deal was very unformed at that point. So that's where I think you're gonna go to your easy, your not easy, there's never an easy win, but your most likely wins. And you really do want to think about how much money do I need to make the next meaningful step. Because each meaningful step you make makes the deal more credible for future investors that may not um have as much comfort with you, right? Like your closest friends and family are gonna invest in you guys. Um, and then obviously they're gonna want to know about the deal. Um, but once you make meaningful progress, you're gonna be able to raise more money, then you're gonna make the next meaningful because usually these kind of businesses and these deals aren't just a one huge lump sum that make it all the way. You've got to just you gotta stair step it. But was this like so it took me about probably two to three months? Two to three months. How much is raised total in total? Seven. That's a lot. Yeah, yeah, it was a lot. Yeah, it was uh it took a lot of time. Um, yeah. I mean, I think raising money alone of the five years from first idea to opening day of five years, raising money was three and a half years.
SPEAKER_01That was back when seven million was a lot.
SPEAKER_00It still is, but yeah, um, and it went through COVID. I mean, I went six months without even a single pitch. I couldn't even get somebody on the phone. And that was, I told this story before, and I guess I'll tell it again. Like the the guy that I was working with um as our feasibility consultant, when COVID hit, he was like, Luke, you have a choice. You've already raised some money, you've got money in the bank to keep making progress. You can keep making progress or you can stop and wait and see what happens. Because my advice is keep making progress. That's what people invested for you to do. This is not going to end the world, it's just changing things, but keep making progress, keep working on architectural plans, keep working on engineering plans, because when we come out of this, you'll be further ahead where you can raise more money, you'll have made a more meaningful step. And it was great advice because candidly, at that time, I was scared. Sure. Like, oh, I just need to protect this money, don't do anything. No, they they they gave it in. I had conversations with everyone that had invested, like, we're gonna keep going. Do you agree or disagree, right? Um, and the analogy is the movie Days of Thunder, old movie. Oh goodness. I've seen it, but I can't. Oh, you're gonna watch it again. My favorite movie of all time. Okay, so now we're talking. I should have known that. Cole was in a wreck. Cole trick was the guy, he was in a wreck and he had a bad experience, and then he gets back on the race course for the first time, and there's a wreck in front of him of smoke, he can't see. And his guy in his ear says, You gotta just drive through it, Cole. Just drive through it. You don't know where the future holds, just drive, and he guns it through it, and you see all these cars. I'm out of here, Harry. Exactly. And he drives through it, and he came out the other side, and that was the advice that was given. It was like, you're gonna come up on hard times, just keep going, believe that you can. It comes back to what we said earlier. And uh is this a movie podcast? I guess it is. I'm a movie fan. It's how I kind of my mental health uh is just dis disappear into a movie. It helps you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Don't have the time anymore, but I would like to. I'd like to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm moving.
SPEAKER_01That's what I liked about going to the movies the other night. Yeah. You don't ever do it, but it I I watched that movie like I hadn't watched a movie in a long time. Because at home you just can't soul many distractions. That's right. Really get into it. And it was like an IMAX, like camera. It was just go see centers. Go see it.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Good plug. Yep. Not to take us off that. Yeah, let's get back to the real topic at hand. Because I mean I do want to go see that next time. I'm an art brand with uh how excited you are on that. But um, so then you get this money, right? Yep. Do you then because one thing that we're I know gonna have an issue with is you know, you knew, okay, this is what it's gonna cost to build, this is what it's gonna cost to get going. We don't necessarily know exactly what certain deals are gonna cost. Of course. So we're just trying to raise a pool of money because the more money we have, the more uh properties we can buy. Perfect. Yep. You're doing more of a fund than an exact business rich.
SPEAKER_01Very different than what exactly right.
SPEAKER_02And so, but even with the money you got, did you then go and use that money to um talk to a bank?
SPEAKER_00Or was it only the money you have so the bank wouldn't talk to us until the equity was in first?
SPEAKER_02Okay, did they tell you how much you needed for the okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you're gonna need a budget. And so to your point, you're not gonna know your exact budget, but come up with what you think a good budget would be. And then let's say, you know, there the bank, when you meet with them, you're gonna talk through your experience and all of that, and they'll give you a feel for like, okay, I think you probably are gonna be able to finance 60-40. Like in our case, it was roughly 60% debt, 40% equity. And so I'll just make numbers simple, right? Like if you have a$10 million need, which is massive. I'm sorry, we're talking about such big numbers on this podcast. And a lot of people raising money for entrepreneurship isn't this large, but um, if you need$10 million and the bank is giving you indication, bank will not give you a commitment until way later in the game. Um, but you kind of want to know what your debt to equity structure needs to be. Ours was 6040, um, and then that's where you build your targets on, and equity has to come first. The bank won't even talk to you until the equity's in play. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had no idea.
Build A Deck That Connects
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's a great question. Most people want to go to the bank first. Yeah. And the bank gets pitched all the time. And until there's equity. There's money behind it, they're not interested. Yeah. So the key is just knocking on as many equity doors as you can, and then same with it comes to debt, you got to go and knock on a lot of doors and find what bank is interested in lending in that area at that time. Because you might find one bank that's interested in doing a deal in your real estate space one month, and then nine months later their portfolio has changed and they need to do a deal on something else. And so again, just like equity. Or vice versa. Vice versa, exactly right. Like don't take no personally. It's probably the best advice I can give you, whether it's debt or equity, is you're gonna get turned down more than you did when you were dating.
SPEAKER_01He told you about our seven no's, right? Yeah, seven.
SPEAKER_02Well, they were our best, they were our I thought our best odds, too. Oh, okay. So they count maybe more than seven.
SPEAKER_00They sting a little more, but don't let them get you down. Yeah. Because just tell yourself, I don't know their situation, right? They might be have having some tough times, they might have other opportunities. Like, don't take it personally.
SPEAKER_01And success breeds success. I mean, you know, once you get one win, it's easier to go back and that's easier and easy and easier. So these first ones are gonna be the most difficult and can take the most persistence and the most belief.
SPEAKER_00Well, and early on, too, don't, in my opinion, this is just an opinion, don't be too firm with a minimum required investment. Like a lot of people will be like, it's a hundred thousand dollar minimum, nothing else. I mean, I would take anything. I had a twenty five hundred dollars, like it adds up because if you can get four people that do twenty five hundred dollars, that's ten grand. And then you get four of those and you got 40 grand. It's just like that's why we have 55 investors. Would I have loved to have had a you know one-stop shop, of course, but take, I mean, within reason, you know your deal, you know what you're looking for, but I was not firm and difficult on minimums. I just if they said yes, I'd say yes to whatever they were comfortable with. Because in the end, it's their money and they know what they are comfortable risking, and that was what I would be comfortable accepting. So I was very flexible on that.
SPEAKER_02And then you're you know, obviously, there's did you say I don't maybe you mentioned it earlier. Did you hire someone to monitor the books, or is that something you're doing? That's my background.
SPEAKER_00I was a CPA before. Um, we now have a uh accountant that does all the books for Boulder, but when we were raising money, that was all you tell me. Yeah, uh, because that was one of my strengths, right? Play to your strengths. That was one of my strengths um was understanding the budgets and the financials and the pro forma. I did all the proformas myself, I ran all the spreadsheets myself. But if that's not your strength, I can hire people to do that pretty easy. Yeah, um, but yeah, that was that was one of my strengths, so that's what I was able to keep in-house.
SPEAKER_01Play to your strengths, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Always play to your strength in school and all that. We're always taught fix your weaknesses, and I think in real world, focus on your strengths, you're gonna get so much further.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00And it's what you enjoy doing, anyways. To summarize the art, prepare for a lot of no's, don't get your head down, believe that you can do it. Y'all's experience is phenomenal. Uh, and play to your strengths, and you'll get there. The story, starting with the story, is very helpful to me. Glad you took that away.
SPEAKER_02That's yeah, we don't do that.
SPEAKER_00And I can help you. I don't do that very well. That's one of my strengths is designing a presentation to help it connect to somebody. Yep. Um, because yeah, if you just throw numbers at them, you'll get a few people that are very, very, very numbers-driven. But most people want to invest in something that they're tied to, they're interested in, they can understand. Um, and so yeah, I think in y'all's case, we can put a really cool story together.
SPEAKER_01They can tell their wife or husband about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's a really good way to say it, Jake. Actually, it is, because they should be able to leave your pitch meeting and go sit down with their significant other and explain it in a way that they're excited about.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly that's a really good idea. I'm handing them 20-page book reports that I'm losing them after page two. There you go. Yeah, and I'd be happy to read all the time. I'll put things together if you want to run by me and get some ideas. Um the art of it is so important. Can we have part two? All right, let's do it. Thanks for joining, guys.