Tamires Taquidir: Making Legal History with Garfield AI’s First Trial Success

We talk with Tammy, a hospitality recruitment founder who uses Garfield to recover a substantial unpaid debt and ends up taking the case all the way to a full trial. The story shows how regulated AI legal help can turn fear and confusion into a clear process, solid evidence, and the confidence to stand up for your work. 
• Tammy’s background from Mozambique and Portugal to building a London-based hospitality recruitment and HR consultancy 
• The reality of unpaid invoices for freelancers and small business owners 
• Why traditional solicitor fees and uncertainty stop people pursuing legitimate debt claims 
• Discovering Garfield through a trusted friend with a legal background 
• How guided legal steps reduce stress and make the small claims process manageable 
• Handling a counterclaim designed to intimidate and push for settlement 
• Collecting evidence, organising documents, and building a strong court bundle 
• The handoff from AI support to a barrister for the hearing 
• What it feels like to be cross-examined and tested on the facts 
• Winning the claim, defeating the counterclaim, and the wider access to justice implications

Transcript

Welcome And A Legal First

Barry 0:05

Hello and welcome to Litigating AI, a series of conversations with the people who are working with AI to improve access to justice. In this episode, we're going to reveal how Garfield created a piece of global legal history, becoming the first regulated AI product to successfully pursue a case all the way through the courts. Garfield founder and CEO Philip Young will be talking to Tammy Taquidir, the founder of Premium Hospitality Recruitment Agency Maximus Elite, who used Garfield every step of the way in her battle to reclaim money she was owed by a client.

Philip 0:44

So

Tammy’s Path To Running A Business

Philip 0:45

let's start with an obvious first question. Tammy, you're the star of the show. Tell us about your background, you know, a bit about your life history and how you've got to doing what you do.

Speaker 2 0:56

So my name is Tamir Taquidir. Although most people do call me Tammy, um, just for brief contest, I was born in Mozambique, that's sort of Southeastern Africa. Spent part of my life in Portugal, I'd say that's been sort of 10 years, and then as soon as I turned 18, I moved to London. I was like, I, you know, it's my time to be independent. Let me find a job and let me see uh what is this ident thing about? So I sort of moved to London pursuing university. That was uh business and hospitality management, but I and I spent my career sort of in hospitality and working my way up from my first job uh being McDonald's, um, all the way to sort of Michelin-styled restaurants and uh luxury members club. Today I do run my own hospitality recruitment and HR consultancy, and that's uh Maxima's elite.

Philip 1:50

I mean, that's a really interesting life story. So so out of interest, what took you to Portugal? Was that um a family move or or some other connection? I mean, uh that's a good one.

Speaker 2 2:01

Yeah, it was a family, uh it was a family move. Um I was I was nine at the time, so it's not like I sort of had um a say in it whether I should go or stay. I mean, mind you, I would have loved to stay, but ultimately as well, you know, it's just to see how, you know, it gave me the opportunity to come to London and to start a career exactly in what I wanted. Um so, you know, probably nine-year-old, I wouldn't make the best decision um for myself, but I'm glad that my mum did. And um, and and so we moved.

Philip 2:33

The next obvious question

Unpaid Work And The Decision Point

Philip 2:35

is the problem you faced. So I think it's fair of me to describe you as a freelancer because you've got your own business. And as I understand it, you know, this was a a debt claim and sort of for money you were owed.

Speaker 2 2:49

Yeah, freelancer would be would be a good way to describe, yes. And I've became involved in a dispute over unpaid fees for work that I've completed. You know, this is the kind of thing that until you're in it, you don't understand it is like that or how it it runs, you know. And I think like many small business owners, I've never expected to find myself in litigation, you know. I'd always rather solve things through conversations. You know, I've eventually found myself in a position where a substantial amount of money I've earned wasn't simply being paid. And how could I then navigate through that?

Philip 3:25

Yes, and I I guess that's the the first challenge, really, which is to sort of find a solution. And sometimes that means finding something or someone that can help you get to that solution. And did you consider traditional law firms or something else?

Speaker 2 3:41

Yes, I did. Throughout this, this sort of work and claim, um, I do have a very close friend, one of my best friends, actually. She's been studying law for the last 10 years. That's when we met. She was actually at the time doing masters at University of Westminster. Um, and we all was sort of very close. So she kind of knew what I was going through with in terms of unpaid and and so on. And I went to her, she was the first person I went to her. I said, Look, this is the situation. What are the fees that for a law firm and how does that work? She was like, Look, I tell you, it's not cheap, you know, it there's some hourly packages in terms of advice and so on. She's like, I don't want to discourage you, but it's just not as easy to sort of pursue as you think it is. But on that same message, so she this was through a voice message actually. One minute later, she tells me, Oh no, by the way, there's Garfield law. Have you heard about it? I'm like, no, so this is a new AI platform that they can actually, since this is a small claims issue, they might be able to help you because they can act as a solicitor on your behalf and with very minimal fees, in fact. So, you know, reach out to them, find out how it works, they might be

Finding Garfield Through A Lawyer Friend

Speaker 2 4:55

able to help you. So it was in a very formal sort of way of asking for help, and uh, and that's how I've I've landed on Garfield. And to be honest with you, the the biggest challenge wasn't necessarily understanding that I was owed money because you know it was agreed that I worked and that the work was delivered. The challenge for me was understanding the legal process of everything, you know. Most small business owners aren't lawyers, as much as I do have my my sort of experience in HR, that's still not a law, and in terms of law of employment is very different. But we don't know where to start, what forms are needed, what the rules are or deadlines for that matter, and even whether pursuing a claim is even realistic. Um, and yeah, that's how I came across Garfield.

Philip 5:44

Oh wow, I didn't I actually didn't know that. Um we do try to track how people find us, but of course, um people don't always tell us, and uh it's always a bit of a mystery to us as to uh what works and what doesn't. And um, yeah, it's very nice to hear that you were given Garfield's name by essentially another lawyer as something to try. And and at that point, uh if you hadn't found Garfield, would you have had quite a difficult decision? Would you have had to have decided between trying to do the process through the courts yourself or pay a lot of money to a traditional law firm, or maybe even give up and just say, actually, the time and cost isn't worth it? Is that where you would have been, do you think?

Speaker 2 6:22

Probably. Uh I mean it it was it was a big sum that it was owed to me um to just sort of walk away from, but I would have had to ponder or perhaps put it for another time to sort of pursue that. I had no idea in terms of what the solicitor fees are. I knew it was something quite substantial because otherwise there would have been claims on uh on forward and onward. But you know, I never really knew even anyone that sort of chase up a claim or reach out to a solicitor to talk about anything because it's just so much time invested and the money invested in just finding out whether it's worth going through it, that I was like, okay, if yeah, if Garfield wasn't in a way, I would have to ponder. Probably wouldn't pursue it straight away. Uh, probably would have, okay, maybe let me make some more money, put it aside, and then I'll find a way to recover this much later. So, but yeah, you know, Garfield

Confidence Over Fear In Small Claims

Speaker 2 7:20

made the process feel extremely accessible. And instead of staring at the blank screen wondering what to do next, I sort of had the guidance at every stage, and it broke a very intimidating process into something manageable.

Philip 7:34

Yeah, it's lovely to hear because of course that's our sort of animating force, the reason that we've been building this thing to try and make a process that otherwise would look quite daunting and scary actually something that people fill with some confidence that they can navigate.

Speaker 2 7:48

What surprising me the most I don't I wouldn't say was the technology behind it. I mean, it is great that um in in terms of this existing for small claims and for you know business owners, it's something really great. But for me personally, I think it was more it was the confidence that it gave me, you know. Um because yeah, because when you're chasing unpaid money, especially from someone you trusted, it's easy to second guess yourself, you know, it is it right, is it wrong? Should I, should I not, you know? But I started wondering whether I was being unreasonable or or whether I should just walk away. And and using sort of this platform, it's it sort of gave me confidence. Because again, my friends and people close to me, they were a bit biased in terms of yeah, you should go to court, you should pursue and everything, but ultimately it's me.

Philip 8:41

They were adding you on. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 8:44

So I mean it's great to get the support, but you know, I'm I'm the one who has to then face the charge, the cost, the time, right? So, yes, it is great that something like this exists. And to be honest with you, how I do also see that the AI and the tools that are here, they're not here to take over us. It's more of a how to use it to empower us. I mean, again, I wouldn't know how it is for solicitors now getting through this sort of platform, how they feel, whether they feel threatened or not. But knowing I also got the advice to pursue this claim through a lawyer as well, it was mixed feeling sort of things, but she's like, You're my friend, I don't want to see you getting charged for things that maybe through Garfield you can do it.

Philip 9:30

So it was more onto that trying something for the first time is always a little bit um well scary, might be too strong a word, but it's uh you know, it takes bravery. And you know, you tried Garfield, you were you know amongst the first cohort of people to come onto the platform and and use it. And I was wondering what gave you confidence in it? Was it because your friend recommended it, or or was it because our regulator has regulated us or some combination of those things, or or just using it, you felt instinctively that it was doing the right things at the right time?

Speaker 2 10:12

Yes, the recommendation again coming from someone with a low background. I mean, I I knew that she knew what she was talking about in in a way. So, and it's also someone I trust um blindly, so I know she wouldn't sort of set me to fail or anything. But it turned something emotional to something practical. Let's let's do that way. Yeah, and and that's how I see it at least. You know, I I was obviously curious how AI could actually help with legal matters, but uh, as I said, very quickly I realised you were making something much complicated easier to understand.

Philip 10:48

That's probably actually sort of a very good way of saying what anyone building an AI product should aim to do. If they can sort of meet that challenge, which is to make something complicated, easy to understand. They're probably building the product in the right way, uh thinking about the right architecture

What The AI Handles Step By Step

Philip 11:05

and the right user experience. Let's talk a bit about the case itself. So, just for the listeners, I'll just quickly explain that what Garfield did was essentially all the stages of the case that a human solicitor would do. So it helped um Tammy prepare the pre-action correspondence to deal with responses from the other side, drafted the court proceedings, dealt with what are known as the statements of case, so the court documents that explain what the case and the defence and the counterclaim are about. And then it dealt with allocation, uh document production and the drafting of witness statements, um, and obviously analysing the other side's witness statements. And then because the other side didn't pay or settle the case, Tammy um fought a trial, and then it handed off the case to a barrister um called Dominic, who went to the trial with Tammy and did all the argument and dealt with the cross-examination of the other side. And so that was the sort of the shape of it. Now you you were faced in this case with a counterclaim uh where the other side responded to your case by trying to ask you to pay money to them. And I was wondering uh how did you feel about that? Did you think that that was an attempt to persuade you to settle or to drop the case, or or what was your sort of thing?

Speaker 2 12:20

Oh, hundred percent, hundred percent. Because it had zero foundation in terms of you know what he was claiming back, and especially being something that he had already paid before all this dispute even started. Yeah, there was a little bit of a kind of not taking me serious sort of thing. Uh, because again, I think as a business owner, there's a lot of people that don't pay, and also sometimes you also have people collecting money from you. And I think he was sort of in that way, oh, she will give up, or you know, it's just it's nothing.

Philip 12:57

Well, they probably were working on the basis that uh you would find it overwhelming because that's one tactic the defendants always take to try to persuade the claimant not to pursue the claim. And uh hopefully uh they they took it more seriously when you commenced proceedings because that's a very serious step, and certainly when you uh went to the trial. But this was an unusual small claim because um normally small claim trials they last about an hour. It's unusual for the parties to be represented by lawyers. You know, parties often can do this themselves, that's the way the system's set up at least. And and then the judge gives a judgment there and then. But your case was um a much bigger, uh unusual and tougher small claim because it was three hours. Um so it's a very long trial by small claim standards, and you both sides had barristers representing them, and the other side had a solicitor representing them throughout, and um there were something like seven witnesses, weren't there? Although only two of you gave evidence um at the end, and um then the judge had to reserve the judgment and hand it down at a later date because she had to go away and write it all up and think about it. So did you feel as you went along that that there was a lot of work that um that you would have had to have done, though Garfield did a lot of it for you? Uh were you surprised by that?

Speaker 2 14:13

Definitely. Uh as I said, the platform helped me as well, organising all my evidence. I I do remember things that we sort of discussed. I had to kind of get into understanding that I'm like, okay, one, I'm not being unreasonable. This was the agreement, I've been paid accordingly until a certain point, and now I'm not getting paid. So I need to follow this and I need to go through. So um finding the the guidance even to collect the evidence, you know, it's probably something that I I wouldn't pursue or collect if, as I said, if if it wasn't guided through me in in that way, you know, and kind of giving me the confidence to ultimately stand up for myself in a way. It's like, okay, I have the right tools to not bring him down, but to sort of make my vindicate your rights.

Philip 15:05

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 15:06

To make my point clear, I mean, I'm not imagining things, you know, this has happened, I have the evidence. You know, Garfield just allowed it to make it something that, as I said, complicated, much easier to understand and to navigate through that process. And and just back onto the question where you said whether I would have done it without Garfield, as I said, you know, Garfield lowered that barrier of taking action because that's ultimately where we were. And mind you, again, my friend did did mention to me, like, look, the cost of having a barrister, they're not that cheap as well. And she said, you know, you have all the evidence, you know the case, you know him, you know how it works, and you can definitely be there and represent yourself. But don't forget, and I was like, well, but the other party will have a solicitor. So I don't want to feel like I am less or more in terms of having someone to represent. So I'm like, okay, I'll close my eyes because this is probably the only significant cost that I had to recur without having a return on, but it was, you know, a rather good investment.

Philip 16:15

Yeah, well, I mean, the barrister obviously does cost a bit of money if you use a barrister, but I think you were wise to instruct Dominic because otherwise it's it's extra stress. Because it was a long trial, because it was three hours, having to do it all yourself. It's nice to be able to sort of know that you're in safe hands and then just be the witness.

Speaker 2 16:33

Very safe hands, actually. Uh Dominic was was great. He also gave me the confidence I needed, you know, through

Evidence, Bundles, And Barrister Handoff

Speaker 2 16:40

a few minutes of talking. I'm like, okay, mate, I'm not crazy and my story does sound right.

Philip 16:48

How did you find the handoff between Garford and Dominic? Because obviously AI can't go into court yet and do the argument itself. So if you want to not argue the case yourself, you have to have a barrister or solicitor in. But you obviously sort of saw it. Did you find it convenient and helpful? Was there anything that you would have preferred to be done differently?

Speaker 2 17:07

No, it was all you know conveniently helpful. Again, being my first experience is is it's hard to sort of compare to to anything. And I I also don't know people that have gone through court through small claims and so on. But you know, having met Dominic on the day, and and mind you, that before we've also exchanged some emails, and I was always saying, Well, um, if you rather jump on a call so I can guide you through and everything, he's like, No, no, fine, that's you know, that's helpful and everything. So I was like, Okay, why he doesn't not want to talk to me? But then I met him and and and truly he, you know, he studied the whole case, he understood my evidence, he understood my, you know, my point of view, he was extremely prepared. I think the evidence bundle, as well, that you sort of helped me build, gave him as well enough arguments and also confidence to to to to pursue this one.

Philip 18:03

Creating bundles is something that um if you're not a lawyer, you regard as an administrative task, but when you're a lawyer, you realise it's really, really important. Because if you get that wrong, then everything else starts to fall apart, and usually the judge becomes really angry with you, so it's really important to get the bundles right. So, on terms of the trial, do you want to just summarise your sort of impressions of it? You know, because you've never been in a trial before and hopefully never have to again. What was the experience like for you and what what what are your sort of abiding memories?

Speaker 2 18:32

Unfortunately, it wasn't a straightforward depth and settled immediately, but throughout the time, and fortunately, you know, got to meet you, got to meet Dominic, you know, got to enjoy some sleepless nights, but got to enjoy the process of doing this. But you know, the claim was defendant, there was a hearing that the evidence to be considered, and ultimately, you know, you it worked really well. So I've I can say I kind of experienced almost the full journey of the whole experience. I mean, being in court, uh, as I said, you know, Garfield gave me the confidence to pursue, and ultimately the the barrister gave me the confidence to, you know, because it's your story and you go in there for a reason. So when you are telling the truth, you know, there is no three different truths, there's only one truth, and and you know, that's where you stand on. So I wasn't worried as to am I gonna sound like I'm I'm making this up or not, you know, it it genuinely happened the way how it happened, and you know, there was only one version of the story itself, that the only version, at least for me, maybe not for the defendant, but you know, it just made me think that, and mind you, that through the time that we were even exchanging the evidences that was in March, and then the hearing was in May, I genuinely thought that after the defendant receiving all the evidence and going through, that he will actually come to his senses and say, Do you know what? I don't think we need to go to court, let's find a way to settle this. So I was so shocked to even see him there in a way. You know, I was ready to be there, but I was so shocked to see. I was like, I can't believe this guy's here. And even some of my friends as well. Like, after all this evidence, he really had the guts to show his face to court. What is he going to defend about? You know? Um, you know, going into a courtroom, and she was, you know, the judge was super friendly, very open. And the fact that, you know, after my sort of cross-examination, she had zero questions for me. But when was the defendant answering the question? She she was a bit confused in terms of the evidence he was he even handed, you know, and and some of the answers, like, you know, you're not making sense in what you're saying. And that's exactly how

Trial Day Lessons And The Verdict

Speaker 2 20:50

I felt at the beginning of all this claim. I'm like, I'm I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm just asking you to pay me what you actually said you would pay me. And you know, and that's the reason why we are here in court a year later. So, you know, it just sort of makes you think, okay, um, you you're not crazy. You not you did the right thing and you you went through with it. So I'm glad I can put it away. Well, almost, but uh um it was really it was it was empowering.

Philip 21:22

Would you like to say what the result was? Did you win your claim? Did you lose a counterclaim or win the counterclaim? How did it go?

Speaker 2 21:28

I won everything. So the counterclaim was dismissed, uh, and my claim succeeded um on exactly the terms that I had initially sort of chased. Um, so as you said, Philip, we sort of made a legal history. Was this case the first one going through to uh to through to court, correct?

Philip 21:48

This is yeah, as far as I know, um, anywhere in the world, this is the first trial that's ever been fought with the help of um of a regulated AI legal platform. You could call it a regulated AI lawyer because. It does the same things as a human lawyer. So, yes, I think as far as I know, anywhere in the world, and um I'd I think I'd know if there was anything else like Garfield authorised and regulated anywhere. Um, so you are the first. Um what do you think? We won.

Speaker 2 22:14

I mean, it's not a we won. It's it's not uh um a single sort of win. We we we both we both won on this one, and uh truly it's you know I'm relieved more than anything. You know, the the money mattered, of course, but it was also some sort of validation, I'd I'd say, you know, it confirmed that standing up for yourself and for your work was the right thing to do.

Philip 22:38

Yes, and and that's very important. I mean, you've got to be true to yourself, don't you? And um and and you know, you were entitled to something and and you were entitled to receive it. And and how does it feel to you to be part of that journey? And what would you maybe say to other businesses who, like you, have got sort of a similar challenge, you know, and are are stuck with a dilemma of do they write it off, do they try and do it themselves, do they look for some sort of legal solution? What sort of thoughts would you offer them?

Speaker 2 23:08

I mean, I think ultimately

Advice For Owners Plus What’s Next

Speaker 2 23:10

is don't assume that because you're a small business owner, you sort of have to walk away from money you're owed. Too many people end up giving up because the legal system feels a little bit inaccessible, you know. Even before I got through to Garfield, I went through sort of sit in an advice bureau, but it was just a bit of a hustle to sort of get the right information. It didn't make it make sense to me. Um, you know, so I I think because it's, you know, too many people end up giving up because it just really feels inaccessible. So I think my experience showed me that with the right tools and support, ordinary business owners can pursue a legitimate claims and and and be heard.

Philip 23:51

Yeah, and that I mean that is, I think, essentially the um one of the great implications of the AI revolution we're going through. It's not just a gimmick. It's a technology that with the right architecture and the right people building the right sorts of products, people are going to end up with a lot of things that will help them in not just their daily life, but also their business life. And hopefully, you know, do things like unlock more justice to people and make some people's jobs easier and generally maybe also make life a bit easier. So, yes, um, well, Tammy, um, it's been awesome to have spoken to you at long last because this is the first time we've ever spoken, even though I do feel I might know you a little bit.

Speaker 2 24:31

Yeah, because I mean it's been more than six months at least, because I first sort of log in onto Garfield, I think was July. Um, so almost a year ago now. Yeah, not knowing what to expect. And obviously, you know, looking back, it it it was, as you said, some sleepless nights in terms of am I doing the right thing? But um, but yeah, here we are. And knowing that we've made history and this should definitely empower other business owners or or sole traders or you know, anyone who's sort of pursuing, even if it's 300 pounds. I mean, you it's it's your money and it's your time invested into that work. So, you know, why not why not get it? You know, we we can get time back, but at least you get compensated for it. And uh, you know, that's why we also work, that's why we do what we do. You know, we can't feed ourselves with thin air. So it you know, it just has to be right.

Philip 25:28

And so the final question, the sort of the obvious final question is well, what does the future hold for you, Tammy? What uh things are you going to be doing? And um, do tell everyone the website address for your business so they can check it out.

Speaker 2 25:40

Yeah, so just sort of again a bit of context, Maximus Elite is sort of a hospitality recruitment agency. So for those who'd like to find out, my website is maximuselite.com. In terms of the future, I mean, I'm hoping that I would have the chance and the opportunity to really be part of some recruitment projects, that being new restaurant openings, some of the chef recruitments. I do really enjoy during the opening phase because you get to sort of build a team from scratch and meet everyone and understanding, you know, everyone's sort of job description and contributed to the actual role. So openings are really, really fun and it's a two, three-month sort of project. Hoping them as well that the HR side of the business also picks up. There are some changes in employment laws at the moment. So staff handbook sort of contracts will be something that will give me some work, but ultimately help my clients and future clients. But yeah, that's that's how I'm hoping the business would sort of go through the next six months.

Philip 26:41

Awesome. Well, we we wish you all the very, very best. I'm sure it's gonna go absolutely brilliantly. And um thank you very much for joining me today and being our guest. And thank you also for being an absolutely wonderful user of Garfield.

Speaker 2 26:53

Thank you very much, Philip. I really appreciate the support.