#67 The Discipline of Pausing, Part 3 | The Question We Dodge

Spiritual clarity and leadership effectiveness grow when we courageously face the truths we already know—but have been avoiding.

In Part 3 of The Discipline of Pausing, Mark and Erica unpack one of the most uncomfortable—but transformative—leadership questions: What do you pretend not to know? This conversation explores self-deception, denial, and the subtle ways leaders ignore the Holy Spirit’s whispers. Through Scripture, leadership wisdom, and honest stories, this episode shows why slowing down to face hard truths is essential for integrity, freedom, and lasting fruit.

📋 Key Takeaways

• Self-deception is rarely loud—it whispers. We often “shush” the Holy Spirit to protect comfort, pace, or approval.
• Unaddressed issues drain integrity and clarity. What we avoid eventually slows us down spiritually and organizationally.
• Confession leads to freedom, not shame. Sin brought into the light creates space for grace, healing, and renewed momentum.
• Delay hurts people. Avoiding hard conversations—especially with personnel—harms teams and keeps everyone from God’s best.
• God’s pruning is loving. What feels like loss may actually be preparation for greater fruit (John 15).

📖 Scripture Tie-Ins

• 1 Samuel 15 – Saul’s partial obedience and denial
• Proverbs 27:6 – “Wounds from a friend can be trusted”
• John 15:1–5 – Abiding, pruning, and fruitfulness
• Joshua 1:9 – Be strong and courageous

🛠️ Next Steps for Listeners

Reflect & Journal

1. What truth have I been quietly avoiding?
2. What would obedience cost me right now?
3. Who already sees this—but I haven’t listened to yet?

Spiritual Practice

1. Schedule an extended pause with God (silence, prayer, fasting).
2. Invite trusted voices to speak honestly into your blind spots.
3. Pray specifically for courage—not clarity alone.

Leadership Challenge

1. Address the issue before it grows.
2. Have the hard conversation you’ve been postponing.
3. Fire a “bullet” (small test) before loading the cannonball.

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Transcript

Erica Adkins (00:06):

Hey, Bible Leadership podcast, fam. We're so glad that you are back with us. We talked a couple episodes ago about eight questions to kind of round out your year, make sure that you're walking in wisdom, setting your next year up well. Last time we talked about question number one, "what are the lessons from the calendar last year?" and Question number two, "what should we probably do less of?" And today we're going to dive into question number three, "What do you pretend not to know?" So before I really flesh that out, Mark, where did you get this question from?

Mark Carter (00:38):

Yeah. Years ago, I was in a telecoaching network with author Nelson Searcy and he was bringing a bunch of us through and this was before internet was really powerful enough to just all be online. It was kind of over the phone. And he had us go through a method of counseling another pastor that includes just, hey, ask him these questions so that you don't really give them the answer. They're actually uncovering the answer that they may already know more than they think they do. And one of them was, "what do you pretend not to know?" And maybe a different way to say it is, "what are you maybe in denial about?"

Erica Adkins (01:11):

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Carter (01:12):

That you do know a little, but you're just not admitting to yourself.

Erica Adkins (01:15):

Yeah. I think that's good. So when Mark first mentioned this question to me, I was like, huh? We talked about in episode 65, it's kind of like what are your blind spots essentially? What are the truths that you've been quietly avoiding? So it isn't asking what information you lack, it's asking what is that sense deep down that you just have not been willing to name, you don't want to address it, you don't want to think about it. And often we pretend not to know that truth because it would slow us down. We might feel like we're disappointing somebody. It could cost us comfort or force a hard conversation. We just don't want to step into that.

Mark Carter (01:53):

There might be some, in some sense that you're shushing it. It will, "Hey, this is a thing." Yeah.

Erica Adkins (01:59):

I don't want to think about that.

Mark Carter (02:01):

Yeah.

Erica Adkins (02:01):

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but the truth is until we actually face what we're pretending not to know, it's going to drain our integrity, our effectiveness and our spiritual clarity. So Mark, take us into this. Like you said, it's maybe the question, what are you in denial about?

Mark Carter (02:18):

Yeah.

Erica Adkins (02:18):

Yeah, what is that?

Mark Carter (02:19):

I think a fantastic example is King Saul. And this is, I mean, dude, this is like where he gets disqualified. So it's First Samuel 15 and Samuel comes to him and he's like, "Dude, why haven't you killed all the ... Why are these sheep still alive? Why is this king still alive?" And he's like, "No, I did everything God asked me to. " And then he's like, "No, you didn't.This isn't done."

Mark Carter (02:38):

He's like, "Well, yeah, that's not done, but here's the reason why." And so he did know that he didn't do everything right. He was just kind of like making an excuse. And that's really what it is. There's some way that we're justifying some course of action or our lack of course of action because we extend something to lose, or maybe we don't have time to think about it. Maybe that costs us the time that we take to think about it, but the danger is they might be really significant under the surface. They could be, yeah, it's a little thing. It could be a giant thing, as in the case of King Saul.

Erica Adkins (03:10):

Yeah. Yeah. So for King Saul, again, like fleshing out that story, Samuel had said, "All right, I want you to go up to the mountain, wait three days. I'm coming for you. I'm going to offer this sacrifice and everything."

(03:22)
Saul got impatient, offered the sacrifice himself, built a monument to himself, didn't kill the king that he was supposed to kill, didn't get rid of all of the army camp and kind of held it all for himself. And as he did all of that, Samuel was like, major disqualifying. "You're going to lose your kingship now. I'm sorry, but you did not do that well." I think it's interesting that you brought that up probably, I don't know, six-ish years ago, I was reading through this chapter and had the Holy Spirit really convicting me. I was working at a place and wanted to stay at that place. My husband was like, "I don't think this works." I had a newborn, a toddler. Oh, and it was COVID, so it wasn't quite six years ago." And homeschooling my two big kids because it was COVID. It was insane.

(04:16)
There was too much going on.

Mark Carter (04:18):

Golly.

Erica Adkins (04:18):

My husband told me I should be quitting my job. I didn't want to because I was building a monument to myself. I wasn't obeying the voices of wisdom that were in my life and I was doing that "shush. I don't want to hear that. I want to keep doing the thing." And it was, until I read this, that it was like a knife to my chest, massive conviction. "Erica, you are ignoring all of the wisdom that is being brought to you and all of the things that I'm quietly saying to you and it's just going to get you in trouble." And so I finally did quit.

Mark Carter (04:50):

So smart, man. And who knows? I mean, this is a different epoch, but if Saul would have just run up to him to Samuel right away and been like, "Oh dude, I'm such an idiot. I just did this." If he would have approached broken, who knows what that might have saved hypothetically, we know God's sovereign and what happened was supposed to happen, but even so just with us, the sooner we get repentant about that, we may avoid some Dramatic Difficulties.

Erica Adkins (05:17):

Yep. So Mark, why do you think this is the hardest? Probably I think of all these questions, this might be the hardest one, but why do you think so?

Mark Carter (05:26):

Yeah. I think in many cases it's because we have a value tension and there's multiple good things that we want. So I want to keep this because I don't want to hurt their feelings or I want to keep this because if I do this, we actually have to move this entire thing around and she's going to hate that we have to move that around and it is a lot of work. And so I like her and I don't want this thing to change. So there's something often we're trying to protect.

(05:50)
In the harder cases of like sin, I want to be a person of integrity, but I'm afraid of what's going to happen if I come out about this, This Little thing I've been secretive about.

(06:00)
So I think it's usually there's more than one thing that we want and we're just letting the thing we want most be loudest right now. And it might be a lack of courage. I think courage is a big part of this.

Erica Adkins (06:12):

Yeah. Okay. So let's think actually in the practical, what are some of the things that like leaders might be pretending?

Mark Carter (06:20):

Yeah. And I think we've all done this. We've all had a season, a moment where we just didn't want to come out about something. It's safer. It's like, I'm afraid. I'm just like Adam and Eve, I'm going to run and hide and I'm afraid to bring This out.

Mark Carter (06:33):

And there might be significant consequences. And at the end of the day, I think we all need the Holy Spirit's help to ask the question, "can God really bless this?" I know God and he just doesn't bless sin. So if it's sin, the sooner the better. I think we need to get people that love us around us. I think sometimes you need help. I think you definitely need, I know I've needed like, God, I just need you to give me the courage to admit this. "I need to tell somebody something and I'm not going to do it unless you just like supernaturally give me the grace to do it." And then you know what? He loves to answer that prayers. He did.

Mark Carter (07:07):

But so I think that's the first one is sin.

Erica Adkins (07:10):

Yeah.

Mark Carter (07:11):

And I would just encourage anyone out there, dude, I know that it is hard, but the sooner you get rid of that thing, dude, the sooner the blessing can begin to...

Erica Adkins (07:19):

Oh my goodness, yes. ...

Mark Carter (07:20):

Can begin to work back. Even if it's a bad blow up initially, the sooner you get that over with though, The Sooner the grace can flood in, because grace will flood it. Those who confess their sins are going to be forgiven and show mercy.

Erica Adkins (07:31):

Yeah, he is faithful and just to forgive your sin.

Mark Carter (07:33):

Amen.

Erica Adkins (07:34):

And cleanse you and then bring blessing. Yeah. And the light can break through finally, the blessing can break through finally. The chains that the enemy is trying to keep you bound in start to loose.

Mark Carter (07:44):

Absolutely. Oh, that's so free. It is so like, once you confess something, even though you're kind of like naked in front of people, you're like, "at least I'm free. Yeah, they know now, But They're sad and mad or hurt or whatever, and there's going to be consequences.

Erica Adkins (08:01):

Consequences, but freedom and hope and healing.

Mark Carter (08:05):

Yeah, man.

Erica Adkins (08:06):

Yeah. Yeah. That's good.

Mark Carter (08:07):

That Clean conscious. Remember what that's like. That's what you get if you confess this thing because it's Awesome.

Erica Adkins (08:12):

Yeah. That's good. All right. So sin can be something. What about personnel? People on your team.

Mark Carter (08:19):

Personnel dude. Yeah. This is so hard because especially if you're in a church setting, there's so many things happening at the same time. You're family and so there's a sense of like, oh, I can't. They're part of the family. They're the brothers and the sisters. What am I going to do? Plus I might have to see them every weekend. And so not only might I hurt their feelings, but it's going to be awkward or whatever.

(08:42)
However, when we know, when we have the sense, when we're shushing the idea that we know this person is just not the right person, We're hurting the team, we're really hurting them. So I just want to give you this quote from Good to Great, this is Jim Collins. One of his big ideas is you got to get the right people on the bus. And in order to do that, he says, "when you know you need to make a people change, [you need to] act." There's times when we have the wrong person on the bus and when we wait and delay in trial alternatives, we give a third and fourth chance. We hope the situation will improve. We invest time into trying to properly manage the person. We build little systems to compensate for shortcomings and so forth. And all we're doing is we're prolonging. Everyone else is getting weary because they know it's not as efficient as it could be or effective. But Jim goes on to say, Your waiting too long actually keeps them from the better thing that's next. Let them get on with it, man.

(09:39)
Let them move on with the will of God. So even though it's really hard, it's unfair to the team and it really is keeping them from the better, anointed probably blessing that is in front of them.

(09:50)
Sucks to do it.

Erica Adkins (09:51):

Yeah, no kidding. By the way, episode 64 as part of our People Factor series, we had one just on conflict, so that might be good if you're in that go back to. Yeah. All right. So personnel, what about timing and pace?

Mark Carter (10:07):

Yeah. Could be wrong season, could be wrong speed. I know that I'm kind of a prophetic guy. One of my gifts early on was God would give me a big on vision and like, "Hey, we can do this" and it's just all the possibilities and so optimistic. And it's a hard thing and probably there's a lot of visionaries listening right now. It's a hard thing when you're living in the future and everyone else is not because you're just like, "Let's go, man." And the anointing can come on you in such a way that you feel like, "dude, this must be tomorrow. This is what God wants to do Next weekend..

Erica Adkins (10:37):

We have to do that right now.

Mark Carter (10:38):

Instead of, I've just found dude, the prophetic can take 10, 15, 20 years to come to pass, even when you feel it very strongly. Not saying it will, but we just have to get that asterisk in our mind about everything that we are feeling or coming from God. It's got to line up with all the anointed, everything else happening, which brings us to: Speed. Sometimes we just want to get ahead and we know if I can just make this happen in kind of a not ideal way, but at least then it happens. Years ago, we were in a situation early in our church plant. We needed a certain piece of equipment and I'm like, "I should just buy this thing. Can I really afford it?" It wasn't smart for me to do it. And I was at this little pastor's conference and I was with another pastor and we were supposed to tell each other about what's a decision you're up against.

(11:22)
And he encouraged me, he was totally right. He's like, "Dude, you're about to get your congregation out of their responsibility and you don't want to build that pattern into your church." He was like, "Don't do it. Just wait on God and teach your people that they need to be the ones that fund this ministry."

(11:38)
He was super right and it slowed me way down from going just the wrong speed. So sometimes that's what we're not admitting to ourselves, "dude, this is too fast." Slow it down.

Erica Adkins (11:50):

Yeah. Okay. Wow. What about the plan? Yeah. The Plan that you have in mind. I think that kind of ties in a little bit with the peace, but-

Mark Carter (12:02):

I needed to learn to be more just fluid with this or more open. I've found in recent years, it's so much more fun and effective when we say we're going to try something for a little while and then if it is just not good or it's not great, It's Not even that we're going to bail on it, we're just going to alter the strategy. We're Just going to say, there might be something still here.

(12:25)
So when we started, one of the things we tried to do to reach people and help them connect to the church, years ago we started the scene called "Meet the Staff." And it was set up in kind of a weird way, honestly. It was like staff are brought in front of people and everyone's at these little tables and they're just mingling kind of like a weird dinner party. It was weird. And I just felt like that was weird. Let's not do that. And we tweaked it a little and then a little and then a little. And we got to this place where now it's like one of our most fun and fabulous things. It's called Connect Class. And dude, it's wild. It's a beast, but it's from like four changes of strategy slightly because we're just open to maybe this is the right thing, but we're trying to go about it the wrong way.

Erica Adkins (13:04):

Yeah, that's good.

Mark Carter (13:05):

And that's a speed thing again, slow down, but you just need to be open to hear that little whisper, don't force this. Just back up and ask some questions.

Erica Adkins (13:14):

Well, and as you're in the middle of it, you assessing, "this doesn't quite feel right." Don't pretend to not hear that voice.

Mark Carter (13:22):

That's really good, dude.

Erica Adkins (13:22):

Slow down. "Okay. Jesus, are you saying that in this moment? What do I need to amend here to get the best fruit?" Yeah. And so I know at Fierce we talk a lot about like a "V1" and "bullets versus cannonballs." You want to tell them just a teeny bit about that.

Mark Carter (13:38):

Yeah, just reminder if no one's ever heard of that one. So this is another principle from Jim Collins. This is in his book, Great By Choice, and essentially says you can spend a whole lot of energy on something that was never going to work. You can spend money on it because you really didn't take the time to calibrate that thing. So he says, "Fire a bullet first." That's a little bit of lead like this. It doesn't cost you very much. And if you misfire, you can just reaim and misfire and re-aim. And none of that costs you very much. Once you find the sweet spot, then you load in the cannonball, boom, Because You know where it's supposed to go.

(14:08)
So taking that time to calibrate is what we're often too impatient to do. I think I'll bet you in a few years from now, we'll look back on this and this was like V1. And if you're listening later, you'll know it's a little bit different then than it's now, just because we want to keep improving the strategy.

Erica Adkins (14:23):

Yeah. But again, I think a big theme that I'm hearing through all of this is slowing down enough to listen and give attention to that still small voice. The Lord is whispering things to you and do not ignore it. Do not pretend not to hear it.

Mark Carter (14:40):

And hear the heart of God that he wants you to do this for ... It's in your own best interest to do this. He's not trying to take something from you. The slow down is for your benefit even though you're anxious to get it done.

Erica Adkins (14:57):

Yeah. Okay. How does self-deception show up in our lives? And maybe show up isn't even the right term because often it doesn't show up as much as it whispers. Talk us through that a little more.

Mark Carter (15:14):

Yeah. So I think it can show up just little whispers, but one of the problems is, and thus the annual review here, you're just going so fast, it's hard to even, even if you do hear it kind of loud, it's like, "Dude, I can't think clearly though to come up with a strategy to pull that off though, or to get out of that or whatever." So that's why having this, wherever it is in the year, this little time set away, we're asking ourselves and the Lord some deeper questions, it might show up there because there's just space in your brain to think about it. You've given time, there's fasting that's happening, maybe you're off alone or with some people where you don't have the normal priorities. So that is a time it could show up.

(15:54)
I think another one is really community. So Maybe before you go on that little thing or if you're with some people, those closest to you, just asking the question, "What does everybody wish I knew? What are y'all trying to help me figure out? " And you walk out of the meeting and you're like, "Why doesn't he get this yet?" What is that sentence?

Erica Adkins (16:12):

Sure.

Mark Carter (16:12):

That's what I want to know because they might be wrong, but they might totally be right, And That's a thing that God wants you to hear.

Erica Adkins (16:19):

Yeah, that's good. I wonder if even pausing to think through your one-on-ones with your direct reports and what are kind of those little things that they've been saying to me that I haven't actually stopped to give attention to, those might be some things to ... "Okay, maybe I should think about that a little bit more."

Mark Carter (16:39):

Yeah. And you know this because even when we're being corrected, sometimes we hear it, but we don't hear it yet. You've told me this before, but I'm still not totally acting that way. And so it might be something like, "Hey, what have we already talked about that you know I've heard you, but it doesn't seem like I've heard you."

Erica Adkins (17:01):

The verse, "wounds from a friend can be trusted." I think sometimes you'll use the phrase like, "Can I give you permission to read my mind?" Or stuff like that. Just opening the door to some of your direct reports or some of your leaders or other ... We talked podcasts ago about the team that you surround yourself with. Asking them, "I'm going to give you permission to meddle in my life right now. What do you think I'm not seeing? What do you think I'm not paying attention to? "

Mark Carter (17:33):

Yeah, That's totally it.

Erica Adkins (17:35):

Yeah. Mark, as we ask this question, what am I pretending not to know? How do you think this will help leaders actually grow spiritually and even emotionally?

Mark Carter (17:47):

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think that's part of the win, is to grow spiritually. It's really not just to get stuff done. Everybody in the world, most effective folks are getting stuff done. That doesn't mean they're doing meaningful things that are going to last for eternity. So your soul is going to last for eternity, so we might as well do some work on that. I think it does so much good. It reduces confidence in the flesh. First, just like the revelation, "I am in self-deception about something probably." Okay, well that makes me tread a little bit more lightly. Whatever it is is putting a drag on our progress. So the sooner I come out with that, the sooner we can speed up.

(18:24)
If I have to deal with it, that takes courage. Courage is a virtue to develop and it makes me resist fear. So why wouldn't I want to grow in courage? That's part of, "Hey man, let's get strong. We want to be strong in the Word. We'll get strong courage too.

Erica Adkins (18:38):

Strong and courageous."

Mark Carter (18:39):

The big leadership virtue is also just I'm going to trust God. I'm Going To trust God. Even though it's scary, whatever this is, Jesus isn't bringing it up For Me just to worry about. He's trying to help me. He's trying to lift it off Me.

Mark Carter (18:58):

So the key to courage is not just to be like a bravado filled person. It is Jesus loves me and has me and he is going to use this for my good. And you grab his hand and he say, "I trust you. Here we go."

Erica Adkins (19:09):

Yeah, that's really, really good. I think a lot of this, I'm thinking about John 15 and Jesus talking about abiding in the vine and a lot of this seems like there's probably some things that the Lord is trying to prune. The pretending not to know are the things that maybe you're holding that piece of your branch onto you and Jesus is like, "No, some of this might need to go. It's not producing the most fruit and it's going to actually sap you if you let it remain." So trust the gardener. He knows what he's doing.

Mark Carter (19:41):

I think that's ... Let me just throw in one more. That's really good, E. And it may be that it's not really leadership or ministry related, but it's still a thing Jesus sees as in the way. So you might have relational conflict with a relative, but it really is a drag on your soul. It doesn't affect your ministry, you don't think, but the Lord is still like, "No dude, this is still poisoning you. Very slow drip of poison. I need you to go do the best you can to reconcile with that or at least make peace with it." So I just think look under every rock. The Lord is interested in much more than just what you do day-to-day.

Erica Adkins (20:16):

Yeah. I think that brings us really well into probably my last question for today. For our young leaders who are listening today, they're just getting started. What are some cautionary, oh, those pretend not to know things that they should confront right now. Don't let this grow.

Mark Carter (20:36):

Yeah. Yeah. I think number one, and we all need to hear this, I don't think just as young leaders.

Speaker 3 (20:41):

Yeah.

Mark Carter (20:41):

I think we regularly need watch out for sin and just get it in the open as soon as you can. That's the place of freedom. That's a place of, it's "naked freedom." You don't want to have to remember what you lied about. You just want to be able to tell, "Oh man, this is what it is. " And that's really the people you want to be around anyway, is the folks that can do that.

(21:03)
I think one for young leaders, especially, is watch out to build your home life in such a way that it is the priority that it should be. So don't let that be like, "Oh, I really should spend more time with the kids or whatever." Don't let that be the one. Everyone feels that to a degree, but you also know when you're, "Yeah, but I'm really trying and I'm going after it." That can't be replaced later, so we should try for that one.

(21:30)
One of the ones that I know was just a challenge, or at least it was for me as a young leader, the first time I had to correct somebody was just hard. I remember he was a good buddy, and I was over him in the Lord, and I didn't really know what I was doing. I was like, "Oh man, God's word says this and this is what you should do. " And he cried, but it was precious. He obviously loved Jesus and didn't want to hurt Jesus, but that was a hard thing to do. And I think maybe some up and coming leaders, they just don't. They're just like, "Well, just sweep that under the rug." And the problem is everything under the rug gets bigger and bigger. You might fail to help someone that you're supposed to help and leaving shrapnel in people for them to keep making that mistake in the future, we just don't know what that sows into everybody else's problems in the future. Let's just do your best, honor God, please him with how you do that and you'll feel much better and so will everybody else.

Erica Adkins (22:29):

Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of this is hit it before it grows.

Mark Carter (22:35):

Yeah, that's it.

Erica Adkins (22:37):

Stop pretending it's not there. Confront it. Be strong and courageous. Be very strong and courageous. The Lord your God is with you wherever you go. Just confront the thing that you don't want to confront.

Mark Carter (22:48):

And you need a time with the Lord that is extended to figure that out. What are those things?

Erica Adkins (22:53):

To Hear him rightly.

Mark Carter (22:55):

Right.

Erica Adkins (22:55):

Yes. So what's a warning, a caution even for this? Am I hearing it rightly?

Mark Carter (23:01):

Great. Great one. Yeah. This is where I think more feedback helps, is, "here's what I think I'm not dealing with or here's what I think I'm pretending not to know." The problem is even if you're right, you might be slightly wrong. There might be nuance to that.

Erica Adkins (23:19):

Sure.

Mark Carter (23:20):

So I can think of examples here at the church, there's a lot of interrelated things happening. So if I'm just like, in previous years, I would have just gone, let's hack that off because I feel like God's not in it. Well, it might be wiser to just have some conversations. "Here's what I think maybe the Lord is saying."

Speaker 3 (23:36):

Yeah.

Mark Carter (23:37):

"What would happen if we unplugged this and pulled all this out?" And they might give me more balance of like, "I think God might be saying some of that, but also think about this." "Oh yeah, well that's a virtue and God likes that thing too." So it's not postponing obedience, it's just getting a fuller picture. We don't always just understand instantly exactly what God wants us to do.

Erica Adkins (23:57):

Yeah.

Mark Carter (23:58):

That's why we have spiritual family.

Erica Adkins (24:00):

Yeah. And when you're on a team, like they're some of your best counsel, likely, because they see a lot of other veins and a lot of other things that are moving and how that might hit something else. And so yeah, maybe we could still carry off the heart of that vision, but maybe not in the same end goal the way that you anticipated.

Mark Carter (24:20):

And this might be a prophetic for somebody. If you're not on a team where you do have that trust and you're the leader, bro, sister, I love you, you need to build the team that you can trust.

Erica Adkins (24:31):

Yeah.

Mark Carter (24:32):

Like that's the whole, like you need to get rid of that team or you need to go to where you can have that team because you can't have people sabotaging. You can't have people that make you want to hide. I feel sorry for whatever situation you're in, but I'll just encourage you. The leadership move is to, as soon as you can, get as many awesome folks around you as possible, beseech the throne until you get, start to get them.

Erica Adkins (24:54):

Yep. And again, People Factor episodes, I think 62 and 63 are great for some of that, How to do that.

Mark Carter (25:02):

Fo Show.

Erica Adkins (25:02):

Yeah. All right Mark, any last nuggets, any last thing you want to leave us for with this One?

Mark Carter (25:08):

I would want a prayer for everybody listening that as the spirit of God comes upon them and alerts them to different things that they just, it might just be time to deal with or look at or plan for or strategize around. "Father, I'm praying for every one of our listeners that you would give them the grace, you give them a light heart and just the sense that you are with them. There's nothing you can't do with them. And so I just give them the courage, help them take your hand and take the plunge and God work together for good in Jesus' name."

Erica Adkins (25:38):

Yeah. Amen. Amen. Y'all, well, thank you for joining us. I pray that you are able to make some space to get away to really ask the Lord these questions. Come back with us. We're not done. We still have four more questions to go. see ya.