Ep 79: Hidden Seasons Keep Us Humble | Lessons from LeaderLab

Most leaders don’t crash because they lacked gifting. They crash because their inner life couldn’t handle attention. 

We sit down as Carter and Erica talk about a core principle of biblical leadership: God entrusts leadership to people who are learning to live under his authority. That sounds simple until you’re overlooked, eager to be seen, or asked to obey when you’d rather do things your way.

We dig into why “delegated authority” changes how you lead, why confidence matters but overconfidence is dangerous, and how a leader can keep checking motives when it’s hard to tell if you’re chasing a platform or just being faithful. 

Along the way, we pull wisdom from Oswald Sanders’ Spiritual Leadership on what makes a leader authoritative, spiritual, and sacrificial, plus the prayer posture that keeps us honest: “Search my heart, O God.”

Then we get painfully practical about leadership development: God often trains us by placing us under human authority we wouldn’t choose. Submission with a good heart becomes the training ground for obedience to Jesus when no one is watching. We also talk hidden seasons through Moses, Elijah, and David, and why obscurity can be God’s protection from pride, burnout, and the spotlight. 

Carter shares recommended reads like Andrew Murray’s Humility and Thomas Watson's The Art of Divine Contentment for anyone who feels “pricked” about pride and discontent.

If you know you’re called to lead but you feel unseen, this conversation is for you. Subscribe for more Bible leadership content, share this with a leader who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

💬 Quotes & Soundbites
 - “The leader needs to get God what God wants—not what the leader wants.”
 - “The skills can come quickly… it’s the shepherd’s heart that takes a lifetime.”
 - “Just live through it. Don’t die in the process—God is training you.”
 - “It’s legitimizing—it’s ratifying that you are actually called.”

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Transcript

Confidence Versus Overconfidence

Mark Carter 0:00

There's a version of overconfidence and you're just underdeveloped in some of these uh areas. But you gotta have a certain degree of confidence just to stand up and do stuff.

Erica Adkins 0:07

How can a young leader tell when they're just chasing a platform or simply trying to be faithful in where they are?

Mark Carter 0:14

I don't know that you can trust your own judgment on it. You're not stupid. Like you're not you're not bad, you're not ungifted, you're awesome.

Erica Adkins 0:20

Yeah.

Mark Carter 0:21

But like the awesome people in the Bible, you gotta pay the price too.

What Leader Lab Is Building

Erica Adkins 0:31

Hey Bible leadership peeps. We're so glad that you were joining us. I want to just let you know you are jumping into a conversation that Mark and I are having about a thing we have called Leader Lab. So we are at our church trying to grow our leaders so that they are more effective in their leadership, in their capacity, and their love of God and the love of his people. And so we're gonna talk about just different principles that we're going through this with our leader lab people. And we invite you to join because when a leader gets better, everybody gets better, as Craig Rochelle would say. So dive in

Leadership Under God’s Authority

Erica Adkins 1:02

with us.

Mark Carter 1:02

What's happening, everybody? Welcome back to the Bible Leadership Podcast. It is Carter and Erica, and today we are talking about how God entrusts leadership to people who are under his authority. Ooh.

Erica Adkins 1:15

Okay. What does that mean?

Mark Carter 1:18

Yeah, that means when we're first starting out as maybe a Christian, or then especially as we're becoming a leader, we get conceptually that we're supposed to be obeying God, but there's a long journey of training to obey through ups and downs and hills and valleys that I conceptually know that, but then I have to be tested. Can I actually obey? Yeah. As God brings me through all the myriad of things to find out if I can because his leader needs to do what he says. I mean, the leader needs to get God what God wants, not what the leader wants. So um there there must be a training, there must be a testing of coming increasingly. It's not that you're not under God's authority, but in all these different aspects coming under God's authority.

Erica Adkins 2:00

Yeah.

Lordship And Delegated Authority

Erica Adkins 2:01

One of the concepts that has been really heavy to me lately, and it might help. I've been watching this movie or this TV show called Monarch of the Glen, where it's all about this laird in Scotland. So he's the lord of, he's got like 44,000 acres, but his whole region, I mean, it's set in the early 2000s, but he's still responsible for the entire area. It's his job to be mindful of the animals and the fish and the like the whole ecosystem and all the people and what they need in the town and and all of that. That's his job. And that idea of lordship, him sitting and surveying all that's going on, he's in charge of it all. So that that concept of of God being our Lord, I think we just don't get it as much. That that concept is doesn't stick with us as much in America because we we don't have that kind of happening. Right?

Mark Carter 3:02

Did you say he was a laird?

Erica Adkins 3:03

He's a laird instead of Lord in Scotland. They call it a laird. L-A-I-R-D.

Mark Carter 3:08

Maybe he should be in charge of changing it to Lord.

Erica Adkins 3:12

But because of their language, right? Sure, yeah. And and that's a piece of our language that we just don't have. That idea of lordship is just not in our culture. And so we but but God is surveying the land and he's giving authority to you for this thing.

Mark Carter 3:27

That's it.

Erica Adkins 3:28

But it's delegated authority. Exactly. It's not your own. And so that idea of trying to hold it on in your own strength is a very good thing.

Mark Carter 3:37

It's a trippy idea. That's really good. It's a trippy idea that God loves you exactly the same when you start your leadership journey and you haven't been really trained and you're rather reckless and disobedient on certain things. Yeah. He doesn't love you any different, but he's still, because he takes the call so seriously, he's gotta train us through some ups and downs that we don't want to go through. Yeah. So okay.

Visibility Temptations For Young Leaders

Erica Adkins 4:00

So thinking specifically to younger leaders, leaders who are starting out, because that's that's who we're developing in our leader lab cohort. Um it is important to have this idea of God being an authority because we will often start out especially craving recognition, feeling overlooked, wanting responsibility before you've been proved faithful. So he's who's been trusted with the little can then be trusted with much, but we want the much before we do the little. Yep. And it's often easy to be tempted to chase visibility rather than obedience.

Mark Carter 4:35

I think even what you just said is so important to me because I didn't have great coaches to give me any of those leadership ideas. All of those emotions were swirling around in me, but I didn't necessarily know, watch out for that, or like that's an that's a that's an over-amplification of that. Or like there was no one to like give me any kind of a training pathway. Okay. There was mild stuff, but it was more like it wasn't deep stuff like this. It was just more of like how to get a meeting done or how to lead a ministry thing versus how to become a guy God can use over the next however many decades.

Erica Adkins 5:09

And it sounds like a lot of what you were trained in early was all of just the practical stuff, which we all need, right? We we we need the very, very clear do this, this, and this. But that only goes so far if your character is not there.

Mark Carter 5:25

And even the even with the spiritual stuff there was training in, and I mean this with so much affection because I'm so grateful for the leaders that I had, but they were all young leaders, meaning they hadn't walked all that far to develop a richer, deeper understanding of like the things Moses or Elijah had to go through. Yeah. Like they just didn't, they weren't there, so they couldn't impart it.

Erica Adkins 5:47

Yeah.

Mark Carter 5:47

Um, so while I love and appreciate them, appreciate them, I do think that if if all we've ever had was like, my leader is three years older than me in this, and they just started last year. Like that's great. And it's even the edge of the kingdom. Like the kingdom was coming and there weren't any older people around, so that's what God used. Um, very heroic in that sense. But we still need, I could have di I could have really benefited from folks that had a deeper understanding of Bible leadership and what is happening there.

Erica Adkins 6:17

Yeah. So yeah.

Moses And The Shepherd’s Heart

Erica Adkins 6:19

I just am even giving this picture now of thinking about Moses specifically. Leaders, you're it's likely that you're going to go through some hidden times and that developing. And I just think of Moses like he he he was in Egypt, he killed that Egyptian, he fled. But in those years of not having probably a title of leadership, that's it was the day-to-day minutiae that was probably forming in him, all that was necessary to then lead the Israelites out.

Mark Carter 6:49

Totally, man. And even as you say that, it seems so n intuitive to me that Moses starts with this pre-concept of himself as savior. Like it's up to him to save the people.

Erica Adkins 7:02

Yeah.

Mark Carter 7:02

Which is not not true.

Erica Adkins 7:04

Yeah.

Mark Carter 7:04

But he's he doesn't have anything about the shepherd. The shepherd of his and you think about all the times he's got to be patient with the Israelites on the way to the promised land. Yeah. And how much he's got to endure and how much he's like, these stupid animals, man. Like they're just but he had to have those 40 years of God's like, okay, you get the save your part, but that's not that's not the heart of what this is. I want you to be a shepherd to my people. And that's where I feel like a lot of the leadership development that we most often need is the skills can come rather quickly. Yeah. It is the shepherd's heart that takes a lifetime to develop.

Erica Adkins 7:36

And that was actually developed in him as he was underneath his father-in-law, right? And learning that day in and day out, actually in the muck and the mire and the dirt and the rain and the snow and the whatever else was happening as he's literally shepherding..

Mark Carter 7:49

And even how God will use anything, like God will use anybody, God will use Jethro. That's got to be true that Jethro was a model to Moses in so many different ways, even though he doesn't know you know uh Yahweh.

Erica Adkins 8:01

Yeah.

Mark Carter 8:01

Um, even so, like so whoever any of our people are, any of our listeners, don't discount, you might even be under some rough pagan, uh, and yet the Lord will still use that to train you up and raise you where you're supposed to go.

Erica Adkins 8:13

Yeah, give you gold nuggets.

Authoritative Spiritual Sacrificial Leaders

Erica Adkins 8:15

So um one of the pieces, again, we're talking about from Spiritual Leadership by Oswald Sanders, uh, a quote from his book is if the world is going to hear the church's voice today, leaders are needed who are authoritative, spiritual, and sacrificial. Authoritative because people desire uh reliable leaders who know where they're going and confident of getting there. I think that's a lot of young ones early on, right? We got we got all the confidence in the world. Okay, but it's not just authoritative. It is then spiritual because without a strong relationship to God and with God, even the most attractive and competent person cannot lead people to God. If you're not first underneath him, you can't lead anybody there. And then third, and I think this is one that we really need, is sacrificial because this trait follows the model of Jesus who gave himself for the whole world and who calls us to follow his steps. And that goes back to which I mentioned in the last podcast, Philippians to who Jesus, in the being in the very nature of God, did not consider equality with God something to be taken to his own advantage. Instead, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant. Being made in human likeness.

Mark Carter 9:26

So um there's so much that is good there, yo. And even I always want to affirm even the confidence part, I don't want people to hear us saying that that's not good. So there's a there's a version of overconfidence, and you're just underdeveloped in some of these uh areas. But at least with like you gotta have a certain degree of confidence just to stand up and do stuff because I certainly can think of you can probably think of folks that do you probably had leadership gifts, but the truth is there's some spirit of fear operating in them. Yeah, and they just never stood up.

Erica Adkins 9:59

Yeah.

Mark Carter 9:59

Um, and I don't, I'm not dissing them, but I'm just saying, at least the confident ones, you got the the backbone.

Erica Adkins 10:05

Yeah.

Mark Carter 10:06

At least you're you're doing something. Somebody gotta do something. So you don't want to be overconfident, but God bless you for even being confident enough to stand up and say, all right, train me, Jesus. Like let's go.

Erica Adkins 10:16

Yeah. And I think that's good because it it can it can be easy to be timid. I think this is something that I struggle with majorly, is I I think that there's leadership gifts put in me, but I I think probably early on have been kind of hand-slapped for asking for things. And so I think that creates a timidity in me to move forward. And yet, if I'm not actually walking in my leadership gifts, then I'm one of those um men in the parable of the talents who actually hid his gift.

Mark Carter 10:46

Oh, that's a good word for somebody today.

Erica Adkins 10:48

Don't hide your gift, walk in it.

Mark Carter 10:50

And don't apologize. Just because you're not at at the pinnacle of maturity, that doesn't mean you're not in the right place and that the God doesn't like the gifts he's given you and that he's using all the things, and so like it's your celebratory, like your thing that is worth being celebrated. Like that's good that you stand up. Do it.

Erica Adkins 11:07

Yeah.

Mark Carter 11:07

The devil doesn't want it, so stand up.

Erica Adkins 11:09

Yeah. Keep going. There's leadership in you.

Mark Carter 11:12

Come on.

Erica Adkins 11:13

Um,

Platform Chasing And Motive Checks

Erica Adkins 11:14

all right. So, Mark, how can a young leader tell when they're just chasing a platform or simply trying to be faithful in where they are?

Mark Carter 11:23

Yeah. Um I think, I suspect, I don't know that you can necessarily, even if you were to make a judgment on it, I don't know that you can trust your own judgment on it. So um it's just in us, like we're two people, you know, and that's always gonna be true. Galatians 5, there's a wrestling match going on between the flesh and the spirit always. So I think it's probably wisest, maybe, or wiser at least, to just say, I'm gonna keep humbling myself and trying to not chase a platform, not chase self-glory. But I'm also just gonna regularly submit that to Jesus and be like, Lord, help me to make sure my my motives are right. So maybe it's just it's the discipline of asking the question, why am I doing that? Like, what is that about? And sometimes you did the right thing for the wrong reason. Um sometimes you did the right thing for the right reason.

Erica Adkins 12:12

Yeah.

Mark Carter 12:13

You won't necessarily even always discern it, probably, this side of heaven. So maybe it's it's just a humility, a posture of like, I don't totally trust myself to not seek the glory. So God forgive me for where I do.

Erica Adkins 12:25

Yeah.

Mark Carter 12:25

And then lead me around it, sanctify it out of me so that I'm increasingly jealous for your glory and not mine. Um but I think I I don't know of a test that that can let you know that thing. I just know to be cautious of being like, well, I'm off the hook for that one.

Erica Adkins 12:41

Like, are you off the hook for anything? I don't know.

Mark Carter 12:44

I can be tempted into just about anything without even paying attention.

Erica Adkins 12:47

Yeah. So I think using that prayer of David, like, search my heart, oh God, try me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there's any wicked way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. And just like that's probably a good prayer to just keep on your nightstand.

Mark Carter 12:59

And don't think you're gonna ever outgrow it. Like that's probably the trap right there. Okay. Just don't think you're gonna outgrow it. You're always gonna need to pray that prayer. The day before you go to heaven, you you should probably pray that prayer. Like that's still good.

Erica Adkins 13:10

Yeah. Wow.

Submitting Under People You Dislike

Erica Adkins 13:12

All right. So, what does it practically look then to actually lead under authority before leading over people?

Mark Carter 13:19

So I think this is one was really hard. I have so much compassion, and I would just want to give some some encouragement to make it, to just, dude, don't die, just live through it. Because you can have some real crusty people that you gotta be under. Um I think one of the things that that's not super easy to see or clear is that if God is calling you into leadership spaces, he's asking you to submit to himself when you don't want to do it. The only way to train that is to actually have to submit to humans you don't want to submit to just because God wants you to. So let me just back out of that and try to tell us that again. You're under somebody, I'm under somebody that I don't want to be under. But I'm obeying them and submitting to them with a good posture, with a good heart attitude. That's what submission is. It's not just I'm doing what they say. Yeah, I'm doing it with a reverence to the Lord. That's why I'm doing it. That's me practicing, God, I'm doing something I don't want to do that kills my flesh, that humbles me. I'm doing it only for you. I don't care about that bloke. Like I'm you know what I'm saying? I'm just doing it for Jesus. Me training that, that is the training ground for, okay, when that guy's not there and God just directly says, I want you to do this and you don't want to do it.

Erica Adkins 14:36

Yeah.

Mark Carter 14:36

He can trust you then because you submitted to the human that you didn't want to submit to. Wow, okay. So you like you gotta go through it just to prove that, like uh Andrew Murray says this in his book, Humility. Like we can say, I'm summarizing here, we can say, Oh yeah, I'll just be humble before the Lord, but I don't need to worry about these blokes. Andrew Murray makes the the case, you're not really humble at all before the Lord if you can't humble yourself in front of people. Humbling yourself in front of people is where you actually demonstrate your humility before the Lord because it hurts. You know what I'm saying? Like that doesn't really hurt that bad to humble yourself before the Lord. Sure. Just in your heart, but it hurts the flesh.

Erica Adkins 15:15

Well, and if all authority is given by God, then if you're under that authority, then God gave you that authority to be under. So therefore, if A equals B and B equals C, then C, yeah.

Mark Carter 15:27

Yeah. And and killing, like I think as I when especially in younger years when I had to be under some difficult authorities, just part of the lesson was um Cardi, you just can't always get what you want. And you have to be okay with that. Uh you have to be dead to your will. Like that's like that that's something that's so hard.

Erica Adkins 15:52

I don't want that.

Mark Carter 15:53

But a leader, I mean, why else should we trust a leader if they're not dead to their will? Like, why should I follow him or her if she's like probably trying to do her own thing? Like, I don't want to, I don't want that kind of leader. So God doesn't want any me to be that leader to somebody else. Like he wants everyone, every one of the sheep that follow me, he wants them pretty sure Carson's gonna do what God wants, not what he wants to do.

Erica Adkins 16:16

Yeah.

Mark Carter 16:16

Even if he's wrong. So I'm just saying, practically speaking, that means you're gonna have to train by submitting to someone you don't necessarily agree with, don't want to submit to, because it's the almost thing it'll kill your heart that way.

Erica Adkins 16:28

Yeah.

Mark Carter 16:29

Like in a good way.

Erica Adkins 16:30

Yeah. Soften your heart. I think that idea, yes. Yeah. Yep. Oh

The Kiln That Softens Hearts

Erica Adkins 16:35

my goodness. And I'm diverging from our talk a teeny bit, but one of my favorite visuals, I don't know if anybody took pottery class in high school. And I don't know if you took pottery class in high school. No, okay, you weren't you were cool like me. Um, no, I was a nerd. Anyway, there's in pottery class, you build something and it goes through the kiln. And sometimes as it goes through the kiln, the heat, it's proved not sufficient and it it cracks. And you have this clay that seems like it's not usable, except here's what happens. You can take that very hard, dry clay that you think can't be used again and put it in this giant vat that is full of wet clay. As it sits in there, it just keeps going around and going around and it gets broken down and it gets wet again, and then it gets usable again. And so don't negate the seasons, maybe where you thought you were in a position and God's like, guess what? You got too hard in your own heart. I need to I need to break you back down.

Mark Carter 17:31

Yeah, yeah.

Erica Adkins 17:32

You might feel like mush. That's a good illustration. You're gonna be among some some goop for a little bit. Yeah. But the only way to prove you again is to get you soft again.

Mark Carter 17:45

That's really hard. And let's just encourage folks, if you're in that situation, I just want to encourage you. You can make it. It's not forever likely they've got to really call leadership on your life. It's not forever. But the best thing to do is just prayerfully with the help of the Holy Spirit, Jesus, help me have a good attitude toward this person. Even if I'm like dying, help me just have a good attitude so that I can get done with this test as fast as possible. Otherwise, I'm just gonna keep going around and around and around in that kiln. Whatever you call it.

Erica Adkins 18:16

Yep.

Why God Uses Hidden Seasons

Erica Adkins 18:18

All right. Well, I think this is even a great next question. So why do you think God often develops leaders in hidden seasons? And how should someone respond when they feel unseen?

Mark Carter 18:29

I'm gonna give us a potentially a theological answer first. Okay. And that is it's because the heart is so sick with pride. Like we're so unavoidably uncurably riddled with pride that if he doesn't take us through hidden seasons, we'll just puff up.

Erica Adkins 18:53

It's just our nature.

Mark Carter 18:53

Yeah, we just will.

Erica Adkins 18:54

Yeah.

Mark Carter 18:55

Um and so he's gotta take us like you know, you remember Elijah. Elijah has this great like moment where he's like, I pray that it's not gonna rain, you know, until until I say. And that happens. And so there's this trout. Well, he's he might be feeling pretty hard on himself, like pretty, pretty hard right now, pretty cool, pretty much. Pretty like feeling himself. And so what does God do? Go into the ravine of Careth and just be there. I'm gonna feed you. Ravens are gonna bring you old meat from wherever they're finding it, and you're just gonna like live, even as he's watching the riverbed dry up, and because of his prayer, meaning he needs a season of obscurity after he does this amazingly awesome prophetic miracle. Because even Elijah needs, he needs humble dude. Like you're you're not meant for the spotlight. Again, Moses, he needs to be kicked out of the country for four years because he's not meant for the spotlight. David, he's told, you're gonna be this awesome dude, and then nothing happens. He's he gets a victory with Goliath, but then he's running around for his life, just being hiding in caves. Why? Because we can't handle constant spotlight. I think about some of the great ones, I shouldn't say great ones, but the more prominent ones, the more famous ones that have fallen. I think about people like Jim Jim Baker. He in his in his biography, I Was Wrong, he talks about how the spotlight blinded him, man. He was just on TV all the time. And it just, you can't help but think you're awesome. If there's always a camera on you, like you your flesh will just do it. So theologically speaking, why we need all these humility tests is because, dude, God loves us too much to just let us blow our lives up. Yeah. That pride will ultimately bring.

Erica Adkins 20:37

Well, and he he opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. Yeah.

Mark Carter 20:41

Right.

Erica Adkins 20:41

Yeah.

Mark Carter 20:42

And that opposition is really because of his love. He's like, I I'd signing under this that's gonna destroy you.

Erica Adkins 20:48

Yeah. I he God disciplines those he loves again. Yeah, yeah. That's really, really good. Um, one of the things, so again, this is like talking about the from the book, Spiritual Leadership, a lot of what we just mentioned, but from chapter two, one of my takeaways was God's purpose is to show how strong he really is, not me. It's not me. So my part looks like weakness, humility, and self-sacrifice. That's right. It's my job to be faithful and not noticed.

Mark Carter 21:13

And again, this is where we get to E with the a great leader probably can write a good org chart. A great leader can write a job description and delegate something. Yes, I'll do all that stuff. But a great leader stays consistently, persistently in the place of repentance for their own pride. Like they're just like, Lord, I know I'm an idiot and I know I've sinned in these ways, and probably because I'm just high on myself. I just I think we're we're safest when we never think we've outgrown that. You can't outgrow that. Yeah. Because you're still in this body. Yeah. You have to grow that when you die. Like that's how you outgrow it. That's really good.

Books That Confront Pride

Erica Adkins 21:49

Mark, are there any um Bible stories, lessons, or books that you would recommend if you're if you're hearing all this and you're like, ah, I'm really pricked about my own pride. Are there any Resources you've recorded.

Mark Carter 22:01

I think one of the most impactful for me has been humility by Andrew Murray. Yeah.

Erica Adkins 22:06

Dude, Andrew Murray, that's some gold.

Mark Carter 22:09

Just again and again, going back to that year after year. That's that's a keeper. That's like one you don't you're not reading it to get through it. You're reading it to like scour your soul. Like that's what you're doing.

Erica Adkins 22:18

And it it's it's quite large. So get ready for that.

Mark Carter 22:21

Um I I think just stewing over that over the years and saying, God, humble me again, humble me again. Uh it just I feel way more safe when I'm when I'm going through stuff like that. Um I think there's another uh few. Um there's one on some of these are Puritan books, so these are getting a little bit older, but man, they're gold. Um what's it called? Uh The Divine Art of Contentment. (The Art of Divine Contentment by Thomas Watson)

Erica Adkins 22:47

Ooh, yeah.

Mark Carter 22:48

Like that's a gold one. Um you're just doing because part sometimes the reason you're having a pride flirt is because you're discontent. Meaning you're like, I should have this more. And the that discontent is evil.

Erica Adkins 23:02

Yeah.

Mark Carter 23:02

It's it's ingratitude. It's it's not submitted to God's will for you necessarily. It's I want my will for me. So um meditating on stuff like that that just reminds you, dude, you you're not all that. You're you're so much more blessed than you realize. Like God has done you so much more good than you deserve at all. You don't deserve more, you deserve less.

Erica Adkins 23:22

Wow.

Mark Carter 23:22

Um so that kind of thing. Okay. Those would be some resources I would I would encourage.

Erica Adkins 23:27

It's good. Good. Any final thoughts, Mark, on this idea of God isn't trusting leadership to people who are just living under his authority.

Mark Carter 23:38

I think I would watch out for the lie. The enemy wants when when things aren't going our way, the enemy is trying to spin that, like because you're really not gifted, or because God doesn't like you, or because he likes these other people, but he doesn't like you. That's why he anoints them and promotes them and he doesn't promote you. All of that is a trick. Like, that's not true. That is all the enemy trying to get you to stop. Like the part of the lesson is no, don't give up on the dream. Keep going. Like, keep going. It's just that this is part of the pain. This is the price of it. Yeah. Just live, just don't die. But don't buy that from the enemy. You're not, you're not stupid. Like, you're not, you're not bad, you're not ungifted, you're awesome.

Erica Adkins 24:17

Yeah.

Mark Carter 24:18

But like the awesome people in the Bible, you gotta pay the price too.

Erica Adkins 24:21

Yeah.

Mark Carter 24:22

That's it's it's legitimizing, it's ratifying that you are actually called.

Erica Adkins 24:26

Yep. Yeah. That's good. That's good. All

Final Encouragement And Next Steps

Erica Adkins 24:31

right. Well, y'all, that's it for today. We invite you to come back. We've got so much more to talk about from Leader Lab and from Spiritual Leadership. So come back, join us next time.

Mark Carter 24:41

See you guys. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Hey, if this was helpful, would you consider liking and sharing, putting it places where other people who need this kind of content are going to find it? Also, you may know that we have a lot of other places you can find our stuff TikTok, Instagram, all the things. So go ahead and check those out in places where you're going to be anyway. And don't forget to lead strong today.