Ep 80: Optimism Without Guardrails Gets You Spanked | Lessons from LeaderLab

A lot of leadership pain doesn’t come from a lack of skill. It comes from a gap in character that stays hidden until it crashes into real life: criticism you didn’t expect, a public mistake you can’t undo, an emotional blowup, or a relationship you didn’t mean to strain. Mark and Erica pull back the curtain on those moments and ask the deeper question Christian leaders often miss: what is God actually trying to train in us right now?

We dig into a challenging idea from LeaderLab at Fierce Church: some of the most damaging leadership problems are “good” traits without guardrails. Optimism can ignore risk and wise counsel. Faith can become insensitive to someone else’s story and suffering. Mercy can become unsanctified, avoiding the firm correction that love sometimes requires. The thread running through all of it is submission to the Holy Spirit, because authority is delegated by God, not owned by us.

We also get practical about what quietly disqualifies leaders more than a lack of talent: lack of discipline, abrasiveness, and love of self that confuses “my way” with “God’s way.” We talk identity and the shadow side of our strengths, why other people often see it first, and how to respond when criticism feels unfair or exaggerated. Finally, we map a simple 30-day path for leadership development and spiritual formation: confession, community, and targeted Scripture “Bible pills” that retrain your instincts over time. If you want help finding resources for a specific struggle, we invite you to reach out at info@bibleleadership.com.

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Transcript

Struggling Leaders And God’s Training

Erica Adkins 0:00

Guys, all of what we're talking about, I'm struggling in in major ways, right now. So sometimes his best for you in this situation is is a hardship that's going to bring you closer to himself and going to affect the community in a way that like points to him in in more glorious ways. How should a young leader respond when How should they respond when they receive criticism? Hey Bible leadership peeps. We're so glad that you were joining us. I want to just let you know you're jumping into a conversation that Mark and I are having about a thing we have called Leader Lab. So we are at our church trying to grow our leaders so that they are more effective in their leadership, in their capacity, and their love of God and the love of his people. And so we're gonna talk about just different principles that we're going through this with our leader lab people. And we invite you to join because when a leader gets better, everybody gets better, as Craig Rochelle would say. So dive in with us.

What Character Gaps Look Like

Mark Carter 1:03

What's happening, everybody? Welcome back to the Bible Leadership Podcast. It's Carter and Erica, and today we're gonna stay in a leader lab lesson. So this is part of the lessons that we go through our leaders with here at Fierce Church. Um, and today's lesson is about the character gaps that leaders can develop. Something bad happens out of those character gaps, but they don't necessarily know what the lesson is or how to like work past that. So talking about character gaps today.

Erica Adkins 1:30

Okay. So some of these things can surface when maybe you're receiving criticism and it's good to have feedback, but it hurts. Yep. Um, they fail publicly and it's obvious. And how do you get back up? They realize they're emotionally reactive. You just explode instead of like quietly receiving. Um their relationships get strained. There's maybe some tension that's around it. Their relationships hurt people unintentionally, or their leadership, sorry, hurts people unintentionally. So, Mark, what are what are some of these gaps? Like thinking about those big ideas.

Mark Carter 2:10

Yeah. So it can be tough, man. Um in God's training process for us, it's not always intuitive, like, what exactly are we trying to train here? We forget, we can see other people's character gaps, but we can't necessarily see our own. And so it's often in the crash of it that it's not intuitive to look at that thing and be like, what is the lesson for me here? It's it can be like, oh, that's too bad, or I feel embarrassed, or yeah, that's you know, bad on them. Instead, God wants us to be asking, How can I, how can I close this and so I have more integrity in these areas, which takes an evaluative heart, takes a prayerful heart. Okay. It takes asking the Lord, what what are you trying to teach me in this? And that can be a wearying question sometimes. Like if we're always asking with every trial, God, what's the lesson for me here? Sometimes the lesson is just like, that was dumb. Like that was that that's the lesson. That was dumb. Don't do that. Um, but other times, uh it's it's wise to just take consider that sometimes we have a character trait that is good, but it's unbridled, and therefore it causes bad.

Unbridled Optimism And Risk

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Okay.

Mark Carter 3:19

Okay. All right. So, as an example, um, early on in my walk, I was raised in a very optimistic home. Okay. Meaning, you can do anything. You can conquer the world, you can take this hill, man. Like, and that very much resonated with me that was in my DNA. I started my Christian walk with that, and and that only amplifies that, because it's like, we can believe God for big things, and let's do that. And it was a sneak attack a little bit by the enemy, but also really just my character that needed developed. That is true, but if that is your only mode, and you can't step back and and genuinely assess the risk of something and genuinely say, okay, but if this hurts people, how bad are they going to get hurt? Like that wasn't a part of my paradigm yet. Okay. And so I had to make some mistakes early on that were really the result of optimism of like, hey man, let's go. But it didn't have enough guardrails in it, it didn't have enough wise counsel around it, it didn't have enough just life experience to know that yeah, that that might not go well. I hadn't learned to ask the question, okay, if everything goes right, yes, this could be what we get. But what if everything goes wrong? Because sometimes it does.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah.

Mark Carter 4:27

And and like you gotta have a plan for that, you gotta you have to weigh that risk. Is this really worth it? Um that's an example of an unbridled positive character trait that could totally hurt somebody.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah.

Mark Carter 4:38

Um I think faith works the same way. Um you can even hurt people sometimes by I'm believing for this. If you've got an out-of-control faith, you can talk to somebody that is like in a lot of pain, has been praying for years to get healed, and you don't even know their story really. And you're like, let's pray for healing right now. And yes, pray for healing right now.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah.

Mark Carter 4:58

But you can be so insensitive that your faith is like, that's a little bit at odds that like you didn't ask any questions about what is the spirit doing right now? How can I be helpful in this moment with my faith, but not in a way that is so insensitive that it turns off the very person I'm trying to minister to. So those are examples of positive, virtuous

Faith That Helps Without Harm

Mark Carter 5:20

character gaps that hurt people.

Erica Adkins 5:21

Yeah. That um specifically with faith, I'm I'm thinking about um two different circumstances where I have a friend who, like a a young man in her little h house church, died. And they like they all rallied around and like were asking for God to like bring this man back to life. And that messed with something in her for a little while thereafter of like, yes, let's have big faith. But what if what if God's answer right now is actually not for him to come back to life? What if God's answer was like he was ready to have him in in glory?

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Yeah.

Erica Adkins 5:53

And we're selfishly asking, right? And so that that idea of faith, I um my mom actually had Alzheimer's and passed away from Alzheimer's. And there was a thing in my heart initially, I was, I was praying, I was praying for for healing and for like miraculous restoration, right? And then there was a thing in my brain that went, oh no, remember that Jesus didn't walk into every last town and heal every last person. Sometimes his best for you in this situation is a hardship that's going to bring you closer to himself and going to affect the community in a way that like points to him in in more glorious ways. And so sometimes the the faith is asking for like the miraculous healing, but sometimes the faith is God create the character in me so that even with this hard thing, yeah, I'm submitted to you and I'm I'm watching you grow the kingdom.

Unsanctified Mercy In Leadership

Mark Carter 6:48

Submitted to you, I love that. Here's another example that just came to mind. Yeah. Um and I I think I got this phrase from Rick Joyner, but it's unsanctified mercy. So this is where you have somebody who's a very merciful person. Yeah. And they're like, and their answer to kind of everything is mercy. The problem is God's answer to every single interaction is not necessarily mercy. Sometimes it's like, no, that was wrong. Yeah. Like don't do that again.

Erica Adkins 7:11

No, there's actually discipline that needs to come here, not mercy. Right.

Mark Carter 7:13

Like that person doesn't need mercy. Like they're they're kind of a rebel. Like mercy reinforces their, you know, uh more dark impulses. And so um and what what is that really? That that is a instead of being led by the Spirit for each moment, like I can be merciful when Jesus is being merciful, or I can be stern when God is being a little bit more stern, still in a in a merciful way, but it's still it's a different it's a different thing. Um if if I demand it's gotta be merciful because that's how that's how I most want to feel God, that's just an immaturity that is like, yeah, but that's really not representing God in all cases. So and and there'll be people who are like, dude, that was way wrong. And you're like brushing that under the rug like nothing happened.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah.

Mark Carter 7:57

And I can't, I can't speak to every situation is different, you know what I'm saying? God is always merciful, but there's also there's there's times like, hey, don't worry about that. And there's times it's like, dude, change. Quit it.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah.

Mark Carter 8:07

You know? So more examples of that's a positive character trait that is unbridled. And therefore it's it's missing the will of God instead of hitting it.

Erica Adkins 8:18

Yeah. That's really good. I I think as the the resounding thing that I'm hearing here is again, all authority is delegated by God. Yes. But it's it's his. Yeah. And if we're not careful and if we're stepping outside and thinking, okay, well, I just have leadership, so I just can go. Well, no. Like remain submitted to the Holy Spirit and asking for his counsel in every moment. Because yeah, it's you're gonna just can continue to need to go for the rest of your life.

Mark Carter 8:50

Yeah, man. I'm just wincing at the idea of like, I can just go. Like, um Lord have mercy. I've I've just been spanked very hard with regard to those kinds of mindsets. And so my butt still hurts a little bit when I when I hear such things.

Quiet Disqualifiers Beyond Talent

Erica Adkins 9:03

Yeah, okay. Um well, let's ask this what is one character weakness that you may have observed that quietly disqualifies more leaders than a lack of talent ever does?

Mark Carter 9:15

I'll give you several. Um one, so one is a lack of discipline. So maybe the positive is they're really great at being led by the Spirit. They're like, hey man, I they're enjoying the freedom of Christ, is a different way to say it. Like, hey man, you know, they're I'm not under the law, like I don't have to like I don't have to be exhausting myself all the time, like Jesus just loves me just how I am. But there's an underdeveloped sense of discipline that would produce progress, that would produce help for other people. There's it's maybe reinforcing some version of laziness. Another one might be abrasiveness, where I've seen people, their leadership is in question because they're even theologically right about certain things, or they're they're a good person to have in a tough call. They just make make a prophetic type of decision that's more firm. But largely they also hurt people with the way they they treat people. Okay. You know what I'm saying? They're just they're so convinced that they're right and they have the mind of God. Um another one would be just love of self. There's a stubbornness of like, I want to do it my way. I'm not open, I'm not open to new ways. And it's not because you really were trained by the Holy Ghost in that.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Yeah.

Mark Carter 10:25

It's just because you just you like your way. You want, you think you're you've confused your way with God's way. Like God has anointed you to do certain things. He's like, okay, then my way of doing it is God's way. No, that's just that's love of self in the sense that you won't change because you love you. You love your way. Instead of like, God, none of my ways matter. Um, I'm nothing.

unknown 10:48

Yeah.

When Identity Blocks Obedience

Mark Carter 10:49

Even, and this is a you know, this may be a hot take a little bit, but we gotta be careful with identity. It's a very identity is a very big idea these days. Like, this is my identity. And I'm not talking anything about like gender or sexual orientation stuff. I'm not talking about anything about that. Long before that was a hot thing on the scene. I remember just having things that I thought of as me. Like, this is who I've been, this is who I've come to know myself as a very young Christian. I was probably 20. Um, this is just me. And the Lord, the spirit just stopped me. He was just like, your life is not your own.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah.

Mark Carter 11:25

Like, whatever you think your identity is, you gave that to me. I get to say what I command you to do, how I command you to act. Just because it it's different than maybe you're used to to doing, that has nothing to do with anything. Like, you're mine. Um, so identity can just be a big, like, and this is why we talk about even personality profiles sometimes, whether it's MBTI or Enneagram, whatever you would say. We won't be careful with those things. Because God is God. And there may be certain patterns that are like, yeah, you tend to act that way. But even so, um if that's getting in the way of like, well, that's just not me, dear heart, you are nothing. Like Jesus gets to tell you what to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah.

Mark Carter 12:10

Peter, get back out there and fish. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Erica Adkins 12:13

Yeah. Um, I am struggling to find it, but um, I was just reading, it's in the Psalms somewhere, um, where it says like God is not pleased with the strength of the horse or the power in man's leg. And that I don't know why that hit me in massive ways. Like his pleasure and his delight is not actually in our strength. And that my my identity, and I like guys, all of what we're talking about, I'm struggling in in major ways right now. So been like just okay, Holy Spirit, like speak to me through your word. And I was in this chapter not for that. I was in this chapter for like verse two, and it was in verse 10 and 11. And um, but that idea of his like his pleasure is not in the strength of the horse. And like I I can think of myself as a workhorse, and I can think of that's that's who I am. And that identity gets so very planted in in who I am. And like, no, and I think the verse goes on to say, like, his his delight is in um like those are who are in submission to him.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Yeah.

Erica Adkins 13:22

And so um, like break that down. If you're struggling with that right now, like I am just Holy Spirit, like help me just to sit at your feet. Help me to be more the Mary than the Martha, like, because that's what can never be taken away from me, right? Yeah. Like there's there's good work to be done, but the the thing that actually has to happen is for us to just be at the feet of Jesus because we can't help anybody. Again, going back to that law of the lid, like we can't help anybody if we're not first just sitting with the Lord.

Mark Carter 13:50

So that's really good. And I I would just want to balance this out just to say to be sure, the Lord loves our personality, He made our personalities. There's strengths He put in our personalities, He loves them and they can be very valuable. I think the the gap that I'm talking about right now has to do with there's an unwillingness or there's a presupposition or even a presumption that because this is the way I tend to go, God always wants me to go that way instead of I need to be flexible and so I know people that are they're very much they can be stern. Like there can be a we we're we're talking about stubbornness, there can be a stubborn good that is like, no, dude, you're not gonna talk me out of doing what God wants me to do. Like I need we need to do this.

Erica Adkins 14:31

Yep. Um you take ground.

Mark Carter 14:33

Well, yeah, yeah. Or even like you call up the the the person who is supposed to pl supply your I mean there's a silly example. You're supposed to supply chicken for the for the picnic, you know, and it's double the price. And you were quoted at a different price, and so there's a there's a good stubborn, like, look, dude, I'm not paying you that. Like this is what we agreed on. Yeah. So that all that is is good. We're just talking about the and and God loves those personalities. It's it's just a flexibility. It's just a like, yeah, I don't have to do it the way that I always do it. And that's what I've I've seen hold people back. They're they're just like, this is my mode, this is how I'm doing it. And they can't even hear that, like, well, bro, could you could you just also do it other ways too, though?

Erica Adkins 15:13

Yeah, yeah. I think the idea of a shadow comes to mind. Where's that from, Mark? That

Seeing Your Shadow With Others

Erica Adkins 15:19

I that idea of the shadow.

Mark Carter 15:20

Yeah, so that's from Pizza Cizarro's my familiarity with it is from P Pizza Cizarro's emotionally healthy church, spirituality, leadership, discipleship. And it's just that idea that there's even it's not necessarily sin all the time, but it's just ways that I'm unconscious of the fact that my patterns, my norms, my stubbornnesses, my insecurities are hurting my results or hurting the team's results.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah.

Mark Carter 15:43

Um because I'm just unaware of them. And mostly when it's our shadow, other people can see it. We just can't see it.

Erica Adkins 15:49

Yeah. Well, and I think they're often tied to our strength. Like our strength is great, but when our strength is uh malformed and not in submission to the Lord, it becomes a shadow and it's that unbridled idea. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Um that verse, by the way, just in case you're like, what was she talking about? Psalm 147, verses 10 and 11. But the Lord delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love.

Mark Carter 16:12

So beautiful.

Erica Adkins 16:13

There we go. All right, Mark.

Responding To Unfair Criticism

Erica Adkins 16:15

Uh a couple more questions. How should a young leader respond when they respond when they receive criticism? That feels either unfair or exaggerated.

Mark Carter 16:30

I have a lot of compassion for anybody that's receiving that because I have I'm sure some of it has been fair, but um I certainly have received my share of painful feedback that seemed unfounded, that seemed unfair, sure. Misrepresenting or misinterpreting certain things. Um I think a couple things. One is I'd get the great book uh Pastors and Their Critics by Joel Beake, which is a fantastic, like you just take a little bath and like here's all the things you should be thinking about uh when when that's happening. Very biblical, very like great, great, great stuff. Okay. Can't recommend it enough. Um I think one of the things that we miss with regard to this is when I'm getting negative feedback, it's one more opportunity. A way I can leverage it for the Lord instead of allow the devil to leverage it against me, is to get my identity in the love of Christ. In other words, just go back to the fact that, you know, dude, I'm sorry you think that, but whether you're right or wrong, Jesus loves me as I am. And like, you gotta have that that sounds like you're not it's not a cop-out, you're not sidestepping it, but you're just grounding yourself first in like Jesus likes me. And you might be right about the thing. I wanna open myself to the fact that you're right. Sure. But I'm not gonna be totally blown out of the water if you happen to be right about some of my stupidity. Because Jesus and me, he's I'm like his favorite everybody's his favorite. I'm his favorite. But yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like he's he's enamored with me. So nothing you're gonna say is gonna throw me if I'm grounded in Christ. If I need your approval, that's gonna be different. If I need everyone to like me, you're you're you're not grounded in the love of Jesus. Yeah. Um, as Paul said, Galatians 1:10. If I was still trying to please people, I'd no longer be the servant of Christ. So um you gotta know that that's that's fighting it. Criticism will try to get you to please the people. You want it, you want it to please God. So that, okay, let me come back in line. Um again, you want to go low and let let time defend us too. So one way to help when you're getting criticism is to maybe about some of those gaps that you're seeing. If you're around other Holy Spirit, Jesus-filled, word-filled people, they can really help a lot because they'll give you honest feedback of like, well, you know, I think that is a little bit true, or I think that is not so true. This is another reason some of our listeners, if you're like alone, if you're isolated as a Christian, that's really challenging when you get to this kind of thing, dude, because you need people that will affirm you could grow there or say, I don't, that doesn't sound like you do. Yeah, that's not God. Like that's just mean.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah.

Mark Carter 19:06

Um and that's sometimes what it is. So being around others. Um and then time, like time just tends to expose stuff. If it's really a shadow of yours, if you're really that if that thing is living in you, that sin or that gap or whatever. If you're just patient, either it will show that it's true or it will show that it's not. Like time will go by and people are like, oh that doesn't that didn't turn out to be true. Like you're not. You have other problems, but it's not that one.

Erica Adkins 19:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's it's good to remember in endure hardship as discipline because God's treating us as children for what children are not. So it's discipline by their father. That's Hebrews 12, 7. And so taking that to the Lord, so you receive that criticism, you take it to the Lord and say, What in my character needs to be shifted by this?

Mark Carter 19:52

Yeah.

Erica Adkins 19:52

Is this accurate? Even if it's not accurate, are there lessons that I can learn in in the moment? Um, but having that heart set of like me and Jesus are still good, yeah. That his love actually was never dependent on your excellence or your ability anyway. So that that's not shifted. That's good to remember.

Mark Carter 20:12

I think in addition to that, that's that's good. Not missing the opportunity to unite with the fellowship of Jesus' sufferings, because one of the things that's hard sometimes, it's not that they said it, it's not even that they're right. It's that it seems like they said it from a place of wanting to hurt you. Like that's the hardest part. Yeah, sure. I think they don't they want me to like feel bad. Um they're against me. I don't need more people against me. And so bringing that to Jesus and just like grieving that with him, maybe they maybe they did want me to feel bad. But if I joined in Jesus with the fellowship of his sufferings, then we're sharing. He's like, Yeah, I get it, man. Like I know all these people I love are trying to hurt me.

Erica Adkins 20:49

Yeah. Um and he was actually perfect and didn't need any of the training. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Carter 20:54

He he he should have gotten the least ill will and he got the most. Um so but but that's that's that's how you grow through it. Like I don't want to even just like get the leadership lesson or like the character gap removed. I want closer to Jesus.

A 30 Day Plan For Growth

Erica Adkins 21:08

That's good. Um, one of the things from the spiritual leadership book is he kind of boils it down to five questions from that he got from this guy, R. E. Thompson. And he says, here's some here's some tests to consider as a leader. Do other people's failures annoy you or challenge you? Do you use people or cultivate people? Do you direct people or do you develop them? Do you criticize or do you encourage? Do you shun or do you seek the person with a special need or problem? So with those kinds of ideas in mind, Mark, if if we're if we're hearing this, we're listening, and we're thinking, man, I do have a character gap. I probably lean toward almost all of the first option in all of those questions instead of the second. Um what does intentional training actually maybe look like over the next 30 days? To have the Lord hone our character?

Mark Carter 22:03

Yes, so many, it's a great question. And and I think one danger is you do nothing about it. Like you just know it. Okay, that's part of my shadow. I think maybe some wiser things, and we've we've had some podcasts on this recently. Confession. Like get used to saying this is true of me. I am a liar. Like I am, you know, lustful. I am abrasive, you know, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Yeah.

Mark Carter 22:29

Confessing that gets it more in you that it's a real thing, uh, that it's real betrayal to the Lord, bringing that to Jesus, um, asking for mercy. But then also being excited almost of like, Jesus and I can grow through this. Like, one of the things that I love about getting older as a Christian is you can actually see that sanctification is real. Like it actually is a thing that is happening. Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank God. Um get so discouraged as a young Christian of like, geez, man, am I ever gonna get any better? And so like, dude, I got a long way to go, but God has done some work. Um this sounds like trite or or kiddie, but I don't mean it this way. Get Bible pills on that topic. So, in other words, you're scouring the scripture. Yeah. If it's abrasiveness, then I'm gonna be looking for um scriptures on, hey, let your gentleness be known to all men. You know, like I wanna I want to study those. Yeah. Jesus, even in his mercy, is imparting this knowledge, you're not so great here. Not so I can just know it or even just confess, but so I can, okay, let's grab God's word and like get strong in this thing. Yeah. And it it becomes like against the devil. It's like, thanks for telling me, devil, watch this.

Erica Adkins 23:34

Yeah. Yeah. If I can insert in there too, uh, you're a leader, so you can go search, you can figure that out. But also you could email us, info at bible leadership.com if you're like, hey, do you have any resources on X? Because I'm really struggling with it. We'd love, we'd love to help you and resource you with some things.

Mark Carter 23:50

That's good, man.

Erica Adkins 23:51

So yeah.

Mark Carter 23:51

We're all in it together, man. Like we're all we're all screwed up, dude. Like, um let's just own it and like chase the Bible, chase Jesus. Yeah. Let him let him work it out. We all we've all got gaps. The the more we can get rid of, the sooner. Like, just the better. So stay aggressive on it.

Erica Adkins 24:06

Yeah. Very good. Mark, any final thoughts about this? God training our character, not just sharpening our skills.

Mark Carter 24:13

I think the one that comes to my mind again is Philippians 1, 6. He that began the good work of me carried on a completion to the day of Christ Jesus. I just want to be a guy that's complying with that and like, yes, sir, let's do that, versus like, I don't want to hear that like stubbornly backing up and don't show me my shadow, or don't suggest there's anything wrong with my leadership.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah.

Mark Carter 24:33

That's only gonna hurt people. But if I can stay optimistic, Jesus has got my good in mind, he plans on getting rid of stuff, let's do it together. Like let's let me partner with him. Yeah and get rid of these character gaps.

Erica Adkins 24:45

Yep. And I I love that if you pull that that verse, he began the good work, and he will be faithful to complete it. That's right. And he's he's the one who's at work and at will in your life, and he's gonna, he's gonna do it. He will accomplish it. Um I love, I actually wrote this in my journal this morning as I was praying. Like, yes, sir. I want to have a yes, sir in my spirit. You I that's something you said like 20 years back. I can remember you standing in the Mundaline campus at the chapel. Like, put a yes, sir in your spirit. Okay, God, whatever you have, yes, sir. Yes, sir. That was a foreign idea, foreign concept for me. But yes, sir. Like, God, you're doing something. This hurts. I don't like it. I don't necessarily want to even grow, but okay. Yes, sir.

Mark Carter 25:28

Yeah, that's a great fun word.

Erica Adkins 25:30

Yeah.

Final Encouragement And Sharing

Erica Adkins 25:32

All right, guys. Thank you for joining us. We got more leadership tips and tricks for you in the future. Hey, if this would help somebody, share it.

Mark Carter 25:39

Do it.

Erica Adkins 25:39

Yeah. See you next time.

Mark Carter 25:41

See you next time, guys. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Hey, if this was helpful, would you consider liking and sharing, putting it places where other people who need this kind of content are going to find it? Also, you may know that we have a lot of other places you can find our stuff TikTok, Instagram, all the things. So go ahead and check those out in places where you're going to be anyway. And don't forget to lead strong today.