Ep 81: Your Ministry Cannot Outrun Your Soul | Lessons from LeaderLab

Your leadership can look strong while your soul is quietly shrinking. Mark and Erica name the trap so many church leaders fall into: confusing gifting with maturity, and confusing productivity with faithfulness. When the pace stays high and the inner life stays shallow, we start leading on autopilot, pulling “old manna” instead of fresh guidance from God, and we begin to pay the price through dryness, anxiety, defensiveness, and burnout.

We build the conversation around Pete Scazzero’s Emotionally Healthy Discipleship and a simple but disruptive idea: be with God before doing for God. We talk about the real-world warning signs that your ministry is outrunning your soul, why your body’s stress signals matter, and how the pressure to “run and do and go” clashes with Jesus’ invitation to Sabbath rest. If you’ve ever felt like you’re always tired, always rushed, or always reacting, this will help you put language to what’s happening beneath the surface.

Then we get concrete. We share radical but practical ways to protect time with Jesus, from morning boundaries and schedule changes to breaking the habit of scrolling first thing. We also unpack “feel your feelings” as a discipleship tool, not emotional decision-making, and we make a case for integrating silence so we can drop our agendas and actually hear God. Finally, we talk about communing with Jesus throughout the day, learning to pray without ceasing while still giving Him undivided attention.

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Transcript

God Deserves Your Full Attention

Mark Carter 0:00

God deserves to be more than one of the things we're multitasking. When we're doing ministry and we just we realize I've had very little input from God on this.

Erica Adkins 0:10

Right now, everybody's like, run and do and go and don't slow down. And what are you thinking? Why are you pausing? Uh taking a vacation, who are you? No, you'd like, there's work to be done. Keep pushing. But that's just not. That's not actually with Hey Bible Leadership peeps. We're so glad that you were joining us. I want to just let you know you are jumping into a conversation that Mark and I are having about a thing we have called Leader Lab. So we are at our church trying to grow our leaders so that they are more effective in their leadership, in their capacity, and their love of God and the love of his people. And so we're gonna talk about just different principles that we're going through this with our Leader Lab people. And we invite you to join because when a leader gets better, everybody gets better, as Craig Rochelle would say. So dive in with us.

Mark Carter 1:02

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Bible Leadership Podcast. I'm here with Erica as always. And today we're talking about something really important. I personally believe as I get older that we are in an age that is in love with greatnessism more and more and more. There is a lure, there's a siren call that is coming from online life, that is coming from being able to be so kind of influential by so many young people that there's a there's this pull to like, I need to be more important and more known or what have you. So today we're looking at Pete Scazaro's book, Emotionally Healthy Discipleship. And one of the things I love about Pete is that he takes us on a deep dive to build shields against that kind of thinking, to have a deeper inner life so that we're really doing the things God has called us to do on planet Earth and not get sidetracked with kind of a cool, famous version of Christianity versus just actually following Jesus to do the things he's asked us to do. Not that there's nothing wrong with that as God leads us into that kind of stuff, but it can be an idolatrous

Leader Lab And The Greatness Trap

Mark Carter 2:00

point to what we're trying to get, and that's just jacked up. So we're gonna start with in Pete's book, we're just gonna go through a few chapters. Today we're gonna go through chapter, uh, what is it, chapter three. Chapter three, that's what you do. Uh and um, yeah, let's dive right in.

Erica Adkins 2:16

Awesome. So I remember uh I just hit 40. Woo-hoo. Um, but I've been involved in church and had the leadership label kind of placed on me at an early life. Like those gifts were obviously seen by people. Oh sure. Um, but in my brain, leadership equated with greatness instead of humility and leadership actually means that you're bringing people along with you. You're not just doing it solo. And so um, what's true though is as a young leader, what you probably don't anticipate is that life gets really busy, um, opportunities are multiplying and stuff, but if you're not careful, productivity becomes your identity. And that is so very true of me in a big way. Um you think you're doing great externally, but actually when it comes down to it, you're actually really, really spiritually dry. I found that in so many times in my life.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yes.

Erica Adkins 3:11

And if you're really, really not careful, burnout creeps in because you're all about the doing instead of the actual being and being still with the Lord.

Mark Carter 3:18

And that's the danger for today that we're talking about is that especially if you are gifted, you begin to have opportunities and people recognize that you get stuff done, and so they pull you into more and more stuff. And it can feel like, wow, I'm I'm like God is opening up doors for me. And he he is maybe, yeah, but the danger is when the inner life begins to corrode on the inside, like you're just getting less and less strong. Yeah, you're getting more and more reliant on the flesh. And so one of the illustrations I've used for a long time is there becomes a point where the tree that you're growing and the fruit that God is bringing from this tree, you got these little itty-bitty baby roots down there. And so you're trying to have like this big topply tree, but you can't really hold that up. And so you just begin to not really be able to hold it up, and to to hold it up, you begin to take little compromises. And so that's what we're trying to hedge against today, is uh the inner life that is necessary for God to really keep using us. And that has at first a guardrail against just we could call it worldlyism. That's not how P talks about it, but maybe that's a way to talk about it.

Erica Adkins 4:19

Aaron Powell Well, it's all like the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride of life, right? Like it's those three things that the Lord guards against uh later in I think it's Revelation, but how how we really are drawn in our own minds and our own hearts, and instead, like we really need to have that deep inner life that sustains Exactly.

Mark Carter 4:37

And sometimes we can we can look at older Christians and be like, they probably don't struggle with that anymore. And so then when we begin to go out in leadership, we're like, that's probably not an issue for me anymore. I'm more advanced than that. Uh-uh. Or maybe there's some kind of like anointing that keeps me from that. No, no, no, dude. The less of the pride, the less of the eyes, the less of the flesh and the boastful pride of life, all the more. The devil's gonna be like, let's go. He's gonna try to like, you know, get that in us.

Erica Adkins 5:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so Mark, let me ask you quick a few questions. How can a leader tell when activity has started compensating for something missing internally?

Mark Carter 5:10

Yeah. I think this is really important to pay attention to. Um so one, I think you begin to use old manna for everything. In other words, you don't have fresh revelation about stuff. You're using the old illustrations, you're using the old insights that you've had in the past. You don't really have a ton that's fresh from God. Um when people ask you how your soul is, if they ever do, and hopefully they do, if they ask you how your soul is, you're kind of vague. You're like, hey man, you know, could be better. And that is the that is the cop-outist answer, and I mean that with affection. Of course it could be better. Everybody's could be better, dude. It's true, yeah. The Apostle Peters could be better at some point in his life on earth. Um but when our soul is it's it's shrunken and yet we're not owning it. We're not we're not walking

Productivity Identity And Burnout

Mark Carter 6:00

that. We're not being like, hmm, I've got a lot to do, but I feel this deadness or emptiness inside. I've had people and I went trying to scare anybody because I don't think this is I I just I think we should know.

Erica Adkins 6:10

Cautionary too. Yeah.

Mark Carter 6:12

I've been in church services where there's a worship leader on stage, and just in the spirit, I can feel his emptiness. I'm like, I can tell in the Holy Ghost that this bro, I love him, it's been so he's in a desert right now. Yeah. And he's pretend like he's clearly really busy.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah.

Mark Carter 6:30

Uh, and yet there's just nothing going on, there's not enough going on on the inside. And so um, I think also when we're overchallenged and we're tired, but not in a good way. So I think there you can temporarily be overchallenged, and that's good, it like grows you. But if you're always overchallenged and you're always tired, yeah, and you don't have any fresh living water flowing through you, I just think like, dude, that's a sign. That's a sign from the Lord. You're you're tempting to do too much too quickly, pull back and focus on the inner life. And that's what that's what all Christianity is about. It's about keeping the main thing, the main thing. Yeah. And the main thing is abiding in Jesus.

Erica Adkins 7:06

Yeah.

Mark Carter 7:06

And so that's what I might say.

Erica Adkins 7:08

Uh a visual, as you said that, like pushing and and getting exhausted, there there can be, there can be a good level of exhausted, like you're you're doing the hard work, right? I think of um somebody who's weightlifting and you're you're doing your reps, right? And you're exhausting that muscle. But if you stayed in the weight room and you continued, you would be ripping that muscle and you would be doing damage to that muscle, which is why it's infuriating when you're at the gym and you need that next machine, but somebody's just sitting there because they're doing their rest, but they're actually doing the good thing, right? Like take a pause, rest. You you can't, you cannot continue lifting forever, and you cannot continue pushing forever.

Mark Carter 7:48

A little riff on that illustration. So I can remember being in the gym one day. I was on a really low carb diet for a long time. And I was like, yes, because I'm like I'm like, you know, shredding up or thinning up. Um but I got to the point where I could feel it in my body. I have no carbs to do anything in it.

Erica Adkins 8:06

There's nothing sustaining it.

Mark Carter 8:07

I'm trying to like I'm I'm out of breath super quickly just because there's, dude, there's no fuel in the tank. Yeah. You're you're trying to do something cool, um, but you're actually doing damage. And that I think that's kind of what we're talking about. Is yeah, you can there's a version of the kingdom where you're doing damage to the kingdom inside of you, no matter how we rationalize what else you gotta do outside. So Yeah, that's good. It's it's a it's and it's it's really not just leadership. This is discipleship itself. Like it could be non-leadershipy things. It could be you you've got errands, you've you've got a bunch of stuff with the kids, you got all kinds of stuff. Yeah. It's not necessarily church leadership, it's just you're living a life that is too much for what you've got going on in Seattle.

Erica Adkins 8:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, your external RPMs cannot be, they they can't be fueled by an empty tank.

Mark Carter 8:50

Yeah. Yep, that's it.

Erica Adkins 8:52

Yeah. Wow.

Mark Carter 8:53

And that's hard to admit. Like it takes a lot of humility to be like, dude, this is that's enough now. Like I need to pull back or I need to often I need to rearrange life so I don't have all these commitments that are causing me to always be on E.

Erica Adkins 9:04

Well, and that's so countercultural too, right? Like in our right now, everybody's like, run and do and go, and don't slow down. And what are you thinking? Why are you pausing? Uh taking a vacation, who are you? No, you'd like, there's work to be done. Keep pushing. It's that's just not that's not actually wisdom. That's not actually the Sabbath rest that Jesus invites us into.

Mark Carter 9:25

So And I feel like we all know that, or many of us know that. It's just the discipline of as soon as you find yourself in it, like, no, no, no, I gotta hack at this, I gotta, I gotta cut away the prune to get back to a smart place.

Erica Adkins 9:38

Aaron Powell And I think that's it. I think good, wise leaders have self-discipline and utilize the gift of the spirit of self-discipline, prioritize rest and prioritize slowing down, prioritize getting deep with the Lord so that you as your roots are going down deep, like you do have the strength to continue.

Mark Carter 9:55

Aaron Powell And that's why you gotta have b uh permission to eject. So that's when we get toasty. Yeah. It's like, okay, we'll get out of here then. Like that that doesn't just mean like oh my god, I just sit on a beach. Maybe maybe you definitely should, but that's not really the total answer. If you're really toasty because you're just going and going and going,

Signs Your Soul Is On E

Mark Carter 10:10

the answer is go back to the well. Like you need time where it's not just a lack of activity, it's spiritual activity to re-populate, you know, the good Holy Ghost flora in your gut, so to speak.

Erica Adkins 10:23

So that's good. That's some good wisdom. So we need discipline, we need all that. Uh, what are some warning signs that a leader's soul is running behind their ministry?

Mark Carter 10:34

And by running behind, we mean unable to keep up with like how's it showing up in life?

Erica Adkins 10:38

Yeah. And and like that example of the worship leader that you said. Like it was kind of glaringly obvious to you in your spirit, like this person is doing way more than their being has sustained them to do. Yep.

Mark Carter 10:50

And what it felt like was it felt like the Holy Ghost was not inhabiting what he would normally do.

Erica Adkins 10:56

Yeah, because he can't bless what he's cursed.

Mark Carter 10:57

Yeah. So I think I'll I'll give Pizza Shallag out a few that I want to read here, but real quick before that. I think when we're doing ministry and we just we realize I've had very little input from God on this. Like if I'm honest, yeah. Because there can be an autopilot where we're just like, well, God will just tell me or whatever. It's kind of his responsibility to tell me because I'm doing his ministry. No, no, no, no, no.

Erica Adkins 11:20

But are you slowing down enough to hear him?

Mark Carter 11:22

Exactly. It's our responsibility to posture ourselves to hear him, given the high stakes of the ministry we're doing. So um I think when I've when I've got when I just pause enough, I'm asked, have I really heard from God recently about any of this? That's a that's room for pause.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah.

Mark Carter 11:38

I think especially when there's very little stillness of soul, so if you can't just sit there and be still and just like calm down relatively quickly, and of course you can have a crazy day and you're just ah you're rot up or you almost get in a fight or something like that. But I'm talking about in general, day to day, if you can't like, I'm gonna take 10 minutes and power down and just kind of get quiet in my spirit. I want to lovingly suggest I don't think that's the way discipleships also go.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah.

Mark Carter 12:07

I think you gotta get back to the place where that's the norm, like that's that's the thing you're practicing while you're doing all this other work for God.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yeah.

Mark Carter 12:14

So um He quiets our soul. So a way that we talk about sometimes, let's take lust, for example. When there's a lot of acting out from a lust perspective, often the the folks that talk about this will say that's the leaves, but not the root. The root, what's really going wrong there is your spirit isn't right, your heart isn't right with God, you're not cleansed enough before the Lord. And so, yeah, you're you're walking in more lustful thoughts because your heart has not been chilled with the Lord enough. It's it's not just so cut off all the lust, it is do that, but go back into tightness with Jesus. So when sin is showing up, when you want to get out quick, like you just want to forget it, I'm I'm out of here. Yeah, like that that happens sometimes. People will just come and they'll be like, okay, that's it, I'm out. Yeah. Like, bro, what? You're out? Yeah. Like, slow down. Just let's go back to the altar. Let's go back to the worship well, and okay, let's reduce what you're doing. But just flight, like, that sounds to me like there was some abiding that wasn't happening on the way here, so to speak. So but let's go to um, I'm just gonna go to chapter three in this book, and I just want to give you a couple um that Pete Schizarral says, so this book is dope, guys, but here's here's some of the insights. Um when I can't shake the pressure of having too much to do in too little time, that might be it. When I'm ignoring stress and anxiety and tightness in my body, that has definitely been one I've I've been noticing more in recent times just to pay attention to of like somebody said you've heard this before. Your body is a major profit, not a minor profit.

unknown 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah.

Mark Carter 13:55

It's not a little thing, it's a big thing when it's talking. Um just paying attention to like how often are you just gonna have tension in your in your muscles or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah.

Mark Carter 14:05

Um he says over concerned about what others think. That one seems normal. Um more fearful about the future, always rushing. Here's one defensive and easily offended. Like when we're just doing life from a posture of like, it's easy to get under my skin and be like, oh, what do they mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah.

Mark Carter 14:23

Like if we're really abiding deeply in Jesus, you don't even really ask that question as much, yeah, possibly, because you're just like, I don't care what they think. Like, yeah, I care about them, but I'm called of God and I care what God thinks.

Erica Adkins 14:36

Well, and just I feel like it if we are if we are girded in Christ, if we have um all of the the pieces of our battle gear on, right? Like the temptations don't hit quite as easily. And so like the ability for sin to creep in, the ability for the enemy to get to us with things like offense is lesser because we're already girded in truth. And so, yeah.

Mark Carter 15:03

A way a way to think about it is we've got those truth shields up. When when I'm when I'm more clothed in the truth, it's harder for those offenses to even break in. Yeah. Like it just when when they're thin, it's like I'm you know, I'm T Y or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah.

Mark Carter 15:18

Um, I like this one. I fire off quick opinions and judgments. I've definitely I'm I'm trying to learn to pay attention more to that. Okay. I was like, that was just a quick answer, dude. Are we sure we even like listen to God at all? Let's slow down. Who cares about my opinion? Like, how quick am I to just weigh in? Okay. Um I know that might sound you know weird to folks, but for me, my opinion has got a history of not being right. So um, how high stakes is this, man? I'm not talking about what we want for lunch. I'm talking about like something major about the kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah.

Mark Carter 15:52

Okay, well, bro, just maybe your opinion in the most unfiltered form is bad for everybody. Wow. And if you're not like walking in deeper things with God in the inner life, yeah, you're just like on autopilot. You're just like, wow, here's what I think.

Erica Adkins 16:05

Yeah.

Mark Carter 16:06

But what you got over there, girlfriend?

Erica Adkins 16:10

Oh, we talked about this just recently. How I feel like I have a gift of assertiveness. Like I can look at a I can look at a circumstance and I can like make a judgment call. And I think there is a gift to that. But um a wise leader slows down and says, Hey, I I think this might be a solution, instead of this is a solution. Yeah, yeah. And that that assertive mindset is actually probably nine times out of ten, actually more pride than it is humility. And if I'm not slowed down with the Lord and walking with him, it is absolutely only my man's own strength that I'm bringing to the table, which is absolutely just gonna crumble. Like I yeah, go ahead.

Mark Carter 16:52

Well, yeah, I think that's true. And I I think one of the things we're saying is it's it's not that we want to lead from timidity and be like, oh, I just don't know. Right. But it's it's a poise of like I've I'm with the father and I'm generally like just I'm chill enough to be like, what do you think about this? And just like listen more quickly, you know what I'm saying? And be slower to be like, well, let's weigh some stuff and see what God can say in the room through other people. Okay, well, how's that, you know? Um there there's just a it's it's a it's a lowliness about your own opinion. It's just a God's called me to lead, okay, good, but yeah, don't fire that thing off, man.

Erica Adkins 17:28

Yeah.

Mark Carter 17:29

Careful.

Erica Adkins 17:30

And I I just I think even about Jesus, the actual son of God, who like didn't consider equal equality with God something to be grasped, but he humbled himself. And how often do we see in the New Testament as Jesus is walking along his days, he pauses and he gets away with the Father, and he spends time being still before he goes. Exactly. And he waits, like, am I supposed to go to this town today? Oh, nope, I shouldn't go to that town. I'm gonna go to this one. He ha he has equality with God, and yet he's still pausing to send time with the Father.

Mark Carter 18:02

Yeah. I think that brings us to one more. Um I spend more time talking than listening. You know, I really feel like there's there's a there's a grace that God sometimes gives me, and I pray he always gives it to me. That it's a like, wow, you're usually talking a lot right now. Like I get I get like a uh in my mouth almost from the from the Holy Spirit. It's just like, why are you talking so much, dude? Like draw them out, quit telling everybody what you think. Um and so may the Lord have mercy on us and and keep us from such craziness.

Erica Adkins 18:36

I remember, can I interject into that really quick? When when um I was much younger, I'm thinking like 19, 20, um Mark, you looked at me one day and you're like, Erica, the Holy Spirit speaks in silence.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah. Like, yeah, he does.

Erica Adkins 18:51

Which means like, and and I I have taken that in so many spheres of my life, and especially in like small groups and and discipleship of you don't just retort with whatever comes to your mind, like pause. Wait for the Holy Spirit to bring something to mind. Wait, wait for them to respond. I interestingly was just in a conversation with a guy meeting at the gym. Um, and he was saying how my husband doesn't instantly respond with something. And so this guy feels like he instantly has he's he's gotta fill the silence. And that's a discomfort, I think, in his own life that he feels like he needs to fill the silence. But he just said, you know, because your husband is so quiet and he doesn't respond so quickly, like I know whatever's about to come out of his mouth is gold. And I just think as leaders, we could learn to pause a little bit more and actual gold would come out of our mouth because it's tempered by the Holy Spirit instead of just our own wind wisdom.

Mark Carter 19:49

So that's totally it, dude. Uh even you we teach our our small group leaders this, but it's it doesn't matter how times you learn, you gotta re-read. Even in a small group, it can be tempting to be the leader and tell people a lot of stuff instead of dude, if you're really the leader, then help everybody feel like God can speak to them and through them and draw out what he's saying to them. Because I'd actually rather them learn to hear from God and then say it than hear whatever baloney I've got to share. Sure.

Erica Adkins 20:18

Yeah, that's good. All right, Mark, we're talking about all these cautions for young leaders, but how do they actually build this formation into their schedule instead of just function as

Four Practices Before Doing For God

Erica Adkins 20:30

normal?

Mark Carter 20:31

Really good. You know, I don't think I've got anything better to say than some of what Pete shares in the book. So I'm just gonna give you, he gives four ways to be with God before doing for God. Um, first, he talks about making a radical decision, which is just a God must come first in my day.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah.

Mark Carter 20:47

Like God is the thing that is happening. I think it's really dangerous, and I want to give a gracious nudge to everybody who's listening. If God has called you to lead in any way, and time with Jesus is not your preeminent priority in life, you gotta get radical, man.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah.

Mark Carter 21:04

Because just think about what you're saying there. You're saying you have something to share and lead people toward that isn't Jesus at the center. Like the whole thing that He would want you to lead them toward is Him at the center. Yeah. So that's gotta just like be legit. And so he talks about that, but first just make a it's just understand it's a radical countercultural decision. I am gonna put God first, and yeah, whatever happens, like God is gonna be the priority of the day.

Erica Adkins 21:29

Can I just ask you really quick, like what are two or three of the things that you like radical things that you've done to make God first? What are things that you're setting aside, maybe even?

Mark Carter 21:38

Yeah, so I mean I'll just go through some of mine. I'm not saying they're even all very wise. But um, no, but I think they're practical is helpful. So practical. Back in college, I used to put us uh a little sign up on my door. I lived in a suite with a bunch of guys that were bananas. And you know, they're just they're they're roughhouse and like all that, you know. And I just put up a sign, it was it was pretty much kind of a rebuke almost like don't come in here, be quiet. I'm having time with God. Yeah. And that was kind of bold because you know, half of them weren't even Christians. And um but Yeah, you didn't go to a Christian college. Right. Yeah. So it was just a it was a decision of like stay out of here. Um, I think there's there's other components. I remember early on in my walk, I would just like, dude, I'd wake up with uh caffeine right next to me. Yeah. Okay, just like I know that I'm gonna be so tired in bed, I'm not gonna want to get up. Okay, turn over, just get your body going. Yeah. Um, I know that sounds strange, but that was that was a real thing. This is a hard one for parents. Yeah. Um, it is training your kids. Mom or dad or mom and dad are having time with God between this hour and this hour.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah.

Mark Carter 22:45

You can do anything you want, but do not come to me for breakfast. Don't come to me for whatever coloring book you're looking for. Like stay in bed, or if you're out of bed, don't come find me. And and that was not only like tremendously healthy for for our spirit walk. Yeah. It was helpful for them to see, dude, nothing come before God.

unknown 23:05

Yeah.

Mark Carter 23:06

Nothing come before God. It don't matter. I'm not saying when you have to nurse them, but but once they're autonomous. Yeah. Um, you have to be able to put like God is first.

Erica Adkins 23:15

Yep. I my my kids know this. I'm sitting in my quiet time chair this morning reading, having my journaling time and talking to the Lord. My seven-year-old walks in and he's up 30 minutes before he should be. But I'm like, buddy, I love you. I'm spending time with Jesus. So good. I'm not available. And he came, he just sat in the room and then started making noise. I was like, son, if I need to focus with Jesus, like I need you to be quiet. So you can stay there, but you can't talk and you need to be silent. And then he wandered away. But I, yeah, it it feels ruthless. It's radical, but it it's the way you gotta do it.

Mark Carter 23:50

And I think that's it. And it's it's radical. So that means during the lunch hour. So sometimes you you might have a life stage where you can't do that right away in the morning. You gotta get up so early that you gotta be somewhere. I think sometimes that's not even true. Like we just have to challenge ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah.

Mark Carter 24:07

Even so, get up earlier.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah.

Mark Carter 24:09

Um, but so for me, I've I've had times where I had pray time in the drive over to work. I had Bible time in the car during lunch. Yeah. Um, because that's like the job site I was on or whatever. My wife got more radical recently. So, like, she's she went back, she's now a nurse.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah.

Mark Carter 24:27

She's got to get up early. And she was trying to be like, well, you know, maybe I'll just have time with God when I get home because she has to go so early. She's like, Yeah, you know, 5 30 or whatever. Um, so she's like, no, it just doesn't work. I've got to have my time with God at 4 a.m. Yep if I'm gonna have it at all. Yep. And you know what? God blessed it. Like it's it was a radical choice. Yeah. But now she's like, she has the energy and because that's how God worked. Maybe that's how he works. Yeah. So absolutely I'm not trying to give anybody a law. I'm just saying, what do you gotta do to get radical, man? Yeah. Like do that.

Erica Adkins 24:55

Yeah. I would uh caution everybody to your phone. Ugh, this has really been kicking me in the pants lately. That stupid phone is sitting next to me because it's my alarm, and then I grab it and I start scrolling first thing in the morning. And that like I just my day is so different when I start that way versus if I just put it away, go have my quiet time. I can look at social media and see what's going on later. Um, but it, yeah, that's a radical thing that I need to start.

Mark Carter 25:22

I heard from another pastor um about a commitment to just, hey man, no digital before physical. So like you just have a commitment. I will not look at the phone until I've like opened up God's word physically somehow or something like that, just to get my spirit in the right lane.

Erica Adkins 25:36

Yep.

Mark Carter 25:37

So yeah.

Erica Adkins 25:38

Yeah, that's good. All right, so the four ways to be with God before doing for God. We said number one, make radical decision. Number two, feel your feelings. What does that even mean, Mark?

Mark Carter 25:47

Yeah, this one means um pay attention to what's going wrong in your body or like what you're what you naturally are doing that maybe you're not thinking enough about. So one for me that's been really helpful that I'm sure I got from Pete Scazaro's books. He's got this is like his fifth one now, but um it's just ask yourself questions about why is this emotional thing happening in you. Okay, so as an example, um I've had times when I'm like, I'm really angry at so-and-so, but I don't know why. And so like Pete's advice. Like it feels disproportionate to what to the I don't even know really why, like I'm angry about something. Right. Like I'm not, I'm no like that person made me mad. But I'm not sometimes when you don't go down to figure out the why, yeah, you're just like, well, because because I am. Um and it must be justified. Okay. If if you if you ask the question though, if you go down deeper, yeah and say, well, so what

Feel Your Feelings Without Being Led

Mark Carter 26:40

why am I upset at this person? What am I trying to do here? Oh, I'm upset that I think they have a poor opinion of me. I don't want them to have that poor opinion of me. Yeah, and I don't think that's a fair opinion of me. But really, what is the problem? It's just my own, my own self-talk. Like I can just look at the rationality of that and be like, well, that's a silly reason to be angry. I don't even know if they do feel that way. But even if they do, is that is that worth me being angry like this? No, it's like just pray for them. Yeah. And like go on and have a happy day.

Erica Adkins 27:14

Well, and and even ask the Lord to like heal in yourself the kind of the I guess the the need to have that affirmation from somebody else and like seeking it only from him. Okay.

Mark Carter 27:25

Um I think there's other times, I might even mention this in a recent episode, but um, maybe sometimes it's it's if I see another image of this person online that I'm jealous of, um, I'm just gonna it wasn't until I started to say, why am I irritated by this? Oh, because I'm idolatrously coveting and envying somebody else's good stuff that God gave them instead of enjoying the stuff that God has given me. Yeah. But until I feel my feelings and ask the question, why? Why are you acting like this?

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah.

Mark Carter 27:59

You just for me, you just don't even think about it enough. It's all on the surface. Yeah. You just ride that emotion, assuming it's justified when it's not.

Erica Adkins 28:06

Yeah. I think the caution with this idea of feel your feelings is let them be a warning sign, but not your uh your director.

Mark Carter 28:17

Yes.

Erica Adkins 28:17

Right? So, and all of what you just explained, too, is like getting down to the root of that emotion versus, well, I'm just mad at them, so I'm justified and I can just be mad at them. Yeah. Um, which I think culturally we're we're in that. If you tick me off, I can just be mad and I'm I'm rightful to be mad. So feel your feelings, but let them let them be a warning sign from the Lord because our emotions are from the Lord, like he built them into us. Yeah. But don't let them be your guide. Yep. Right? Totally. Jenny Allen has this book, Unfeel Your Emotions: naming what you feel and knowing what to do about it. That's been a great one. There's a whole bunch of others out there these days about emotions, but again, okay, so make a radical decision, prioritize the Lord, feel your feelings, then integrate silence.

Mark Carter 29:06

Yeah, and I think there's a bridge between these two with the example of forgiveness. So when I'm not feeling my feelings, the real answer is if I get down to it, is you just need to forgive them, dude. Like don't sit there and pout, like, wow, forgiveness is a thing that you have to do.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yeah.

Mark Carter 29:24

Um I think that leads right into the what was the next one? Integrate silence. Integrate silence. Until we're hearing, until until we're practicing just what we talked about before. Yep. I'm just gonna slow down and be before the Lord and just wait on him. And that's where I can slow down and ask him questions, and I can ask stuff like, why am I thinking like this, God? Like, what's wrong with me? What is this? And sometimes it'll just it'll just be a piece of like nothing, don't worry about it. Sometimes it'll just be a little, a little, so small conviction that you would not hear that if you're just not sitting silently before the Lord. And she was like, cuz you need to forgive him. That's why. What he did. That ain't what we're talking about. We're talking about you.

Erica Adkins 30:11

Yeah.

Mark Carter 30:11

You need to forgive him.

Erica Adkins 30:12

Yeah. Stop looking at the spec and recognize the thing in your own eye.

Mark Carter 30:16

And so many of those logs in my own eye, yeah, it's like you don't even see them until you're silent before the Lord. But I think there's also other leadership uh applications of this. So there have been so many times, dude. I think we just had an issue like this that I talked to you about yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah.

Mark Carter 30:34

Um, I'm thinking, this is the plan, this is what we're gonna do, this is my favorite version. And it wasn't until just sitting before the Lord. So we got this retreat coming up, and I wanted to stay at a certain place. I'm like, this is the place, man. I want everyone to experience this awesome retreat. And

Integrate Silence And Drop Agendas

Mark Carter 30:50

I'm just sitting there before the Lord days later, and she's you know, she's like, that's that might be kind of expensive. Um, and I'm just sitting before the Lord, and you need to hear it from him. He's just like, that's not it. And it was almost like it was a warning. He's like, I'm telling you not to do that. And but that doesn't come if I'm just like, yeah, I'm gonna watch one more episode of Daredevil. Not that there's nothing wrong with Daredevil, it's a great show. But I'm saying if you're never silent and still before the Lord, there's just so much, and and Pete is saying integrate it. So it's not just like I'm gonna occasionally have it.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

That's it.

Mark Carter 31:21

Because like I I want to increasingly have a life that is like, no, I'm gonna go outside and be with the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Carter 31:27

You're all watching a show, I'm gonna go upstairs and just be with the Lord.

Erica Adkins 31:29

Yeah.

Mark Carter 31:30

Or what have you.

Erica Adkins 31:31

Yeah. How many times throughout your day do you actually get still? If the number's zero, that's big warning. Yeah. It should be multiple times throughout the day to check in with the Lord. And and yeah, that powering down is so good.

Mark Carter 31:47

And I would just testify for me, that's almost never happened driving. Driving is too much going on. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's not or at least it's not the same thing. It's not the guy can't speak to me while I'm driving, but it's when I'm relaxed and I don't have to manage not killing anybody. You know, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm just there to just be he was the only thing going on. I'm not messing with the radio. I'm not like, I don't know, you know, who were they're coming up behind me. Like, none of that. It is I'm sitting there with the Lord. The only other place that goes really well is the shower.

Erica Adkins 32:16

The shower. Yeah. Cause he you're chilling and nobody's interrupting you except my children constantly. It's fancy.

Mark Carter 32:23

Warm water, like you just have time to like everything like unravels, yeah, like relaxes. So yeah.

unknown 32:29

Yeah.

Mark Carter 32:29

That's not a distinct. I'm just saying. Dude, I'm just saying, like, yeah, cars are still a lot going on.

Erica Adkins 32:36

Yeah, and I think I think that's good. And thinking about it, we can get a lot done in the car, right? Like, I'm calling people, I'm catching up with things. And you can check in with the Lord and you can pray. Um and we're again, we're not saying that the Lord couldn't speak to you while you're driving, but I think the discipline of this is being actually still, right? So, so maybe that's um, I heard a really good thing years and years and years back that this husband, he would come home from his day and he'd get into the driveway and he'd turn the car off and he'd get still there before he entered the house. And he would like lay down all of the heavy of the day of his work day before he entered, so that he could be fully present with his husband or with his wife and his kids as he entered the house. And I think that it is it's that self-discipline to pause fully. Um, but building that in multiple times throughout your day so that you you are checking in with the Holy Spirit and you are like that, that does just that creates a completely different pace throughout your day, too. And your ability to to think well, I think all of our RPMs are probably way higher than they ought to be. And we just can't we can't think clearly if we're not going slow.

Mark Carter 33:53

And I think just to to give everybody off the other side of this, it can totally be that your your car is a holy of holies. Like there can be a lot that is still precious and generous, and even in the next point, we'll talk about that. But um I think I think a big picture idea, guys, is God deserves to be more than one of the things you're multitasking.

Erica Adkins 34:14

Ooh, say that again.

Mark Carter 34:16

God deserves to be more than one of the things we're multitasking. I'm doing the Lord, but I'm also doing this. Like, is he isn't he worth more than that though?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Carter 34:26

Like, doesn't he deserve complete chill before you and him, and that's it? And then you can go to number four, which is commune with Jesus throughout the day, which is more of the like, yeah, dude, in the car, on the walk, you know, on your way. I mean, I have these check-ins

Commune With Jesus Throughout The Day

Mark Carter 34:40

in the bathroom. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, hey, here we are, Lord. You know, let's just check in. Um, it's it's that it's that constant flow of I'm always talking to Jesus. I can totally still feel him on the way to stuff and and talk to him and say, Man, I didn't like the way that meeting went, or hey, that was a great thing we're celebrating. Um, or God, I need grace because these kids are about to lose my mind here. You know what I'm saying? That is a hundred percent a part of it. It's just not all of it.

Erica Adkins 35:10

I think that brings us to um 1 Thessalonians 5, which says, rejoice always, verse 16, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. And that's just like the that's communing with the Father all throughout the day. What do you want? God, thank you for what's going on. This is awesome. Give thanks in all circumstances, rejoicing. Wow, God, I'm so impressed how you did that. Um, and then asking him, pray without ceasing, having that communion with him, talking back and forth all day. It's huge. Yeah.

Mark Carter 35:40

I think you're so right. And and here's, I think, maybe the crux of it. All of the stuff that we're talking about, in in Pete's paradigm, and I think it's the right paradigm, it is the main thing. It is not stuff that you're doing in addition to your work, it precedes the work. It is the preeminent thing over the work.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Yeah.

Mark Carter 36:00

So I'm always fighting instead of like I'm fighting to get my day done, I'm home basis, I'm chilling in Jesus.

Erica Adkins 36:06

That's huge. Not fighting to get your work done, but I'm I am counterculturally fighting to abide in the vine.

Mark Carter 36:14

And I'm resisting the things that pull me out of abiding. Yeah. I'm like, heck no, out, stay back.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah.

Mark Carter 36:19

And and of course, this it's not a permanent thing. It's like it's a fight every day. I'm gonna stay in the place where the main thing is the main thing. And as soon as I fall out, I'm gonna go back into it.

Erica Adkins 36:27

Yeah. And it is a little bit of a battle. So, uh, Carter, any last thoughts? This uh we've talked a lot more than we intended to, I think, but that's great. I think we got some great nuggets here.

Mark Carter 36:38

Yeah, I think you know, he talks about um on one of these pages that it's in silence that we let go of our agendas. And I think that's one of the most healthy things for me is when I'm focused on abiding. I I dude, I'm I'm an A type A person. Like I have a lot I want to get done. I wake up and running, man. Like, let's go. Um, and it's it's hard to discern sometimes because it's so related, my job and God work, it's hard to sometimes distinguish between, yeah, dude, but that's your agenda. Like, that's

Key Takeaways And Share Request

Mark Carter 37:10

not you didn't get that from God.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Yeah.

Mark Carter 37:12

And so just the ability to bring agendas consistently to the Lord all day long. Here's what I'm trying to do, Lord. Is this still what we want to do?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah.

Mark Carter 37:18

That is being, in a good way, the slave of Christ. And that's really what we're trying to do, dude.

Erica Adkins 37:23

Yeah. There's a great song in prayer by Jeremy Riddle, and I'll probably put this in the show notes, but it says, May your voice be louder, may your voice be clearer than all the others, may your face be dearer, may your words be sweeter than all the others. Please keep my eyes fixed on you. Please root my heart so deep in you. Keep me abiding that I may bear fruit. Love it, love it. So yeah.

Mark Carter 37:47

All right, guys. Hey, what do you think, man? Wherever you're operating from, if you've got if you hear some comments, let us know what you think. And we'll see you next time. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Hey, if this was helpful, would you consider liking and sharing, putting it places where other people who need this kind of content are going to find it? Also, you may know that we have a lot of other places you can find our stuff TikTok, Instagram, all the things. So go ahead and check those out in places where you're going to be anyway. And don't forget to lead strong today.