Episode 4 - "I Spent Years Repeating The Same Mistake Because I Wouldn't Accept The Data Right In Front Of Me" w/Will Acuff

Will Acuff — social entrepreneur, author of No Elevator to Everest, and co-founder of Corner to Corner — joins Dr. Matt Paden on the Bad Days Leadership podcast. Will gets honest about moving into a low-income Nashville neighborhood with a million wrong ideas about poverty, spending years repeating the same mistake because he refused to accept the data right in front of him, and how his passion kept showing up as impatience and anger early in his career. He breaks down why overconfidence gets confused for great leadership, why unteachable people won't last on his team, and the blank sheet of paper exercise he recommends for processing failure without letting emotion drive your next decision. Plus — why tying your self-worth to your outcomes puts you on the world's worst roller coaster, and why he refuses to believe the lie that life just has to suck.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Every leader has bad days. Most pretend they don't. This is the show where leaders stop pretending and start learning. Welcome to the Bad Days Leadership Podcast, where leaders pull back the curtain on decisions they cringe about, runes they misread, and the failures that shaped everything after. Real leaders, real mistakes, real lessons. Because you can't become a great leader without a few bad days. Welcome back to Bad Days Leadership, the podcast where we talk about leadership the way it really happens, not necessarily the way we see it on social media. Thanks for being with us today. Today, our guest is Will Acuff, a social entrepreneur, faith-driven leader, and the co-founder of a fantastic organization called Corner to Corner, based here in Nashville, a nonprofit that equips underestimated entrepreneurs to launch and grow small businesses. Will is also the author of a book called No Elevator to Everest. It's a book about resilience, family, uh disability, and finding joy in the climb. I am so looking forward to this conversation. Will, welcome to Bad Days Leadership. We're really glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And love the title, Bad Days, because that there's some honesty there in that title, which I appreciate.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Yeah, we've had a lot of fun with this. And as we were talking about before we went live here, uh, you know, just some great stories that people share because we all have them. And those of us that uh anybody who's led has them, whether or not we're willing to talk about them or not, that's one thing. But uh this has been a lot of fun, so eager to jump in with your stories. Uh, and we got some good questions that we want to ask. Uh, but I want to start here and try to maybe paint a little context if we can. Uh you have led in a variety of different types of organizations. Uh, you've led in research, uh, software, nonprofit entrepreneurship, and now in this nationally recognized uh impactful work, right? You've also written pretty honestly about resilience and struggle. And so when you hear the phrase bad days leadership, what does that bring up for you personally?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, I mean, I think you tend to remember the struggle days almost better than anything else, right? I think that's kind of a hallmark maybe of how we're conditioned. Um, but those are also the days in which we learn the most. And one of the things I try to constantly remind myself is when I'm feeling that kind of, you know, that that tightness, that anxiety of a really bad day, right? That means I'm on the bleeding edge of my growth curve. And that is where I have sought to be all of my life. And so when I reframe it that way, a bad day turns into a growth day. Um, and it doesn't make it easier, but it makes me there on purpose. And that is all the difference. Because if you're trying to escape the bad day, you you've already decided you're not going to learn that day.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

That's a good word as we start here. That is uh that's really good. So let's jump into some questions here. And one in particular that I think uh I've really learned a lot from over the last uh few weeks and uh the past few episodes, especially, is what is something that you used to think was great leadership, but now you know it wasn't. So take us back a little bit. What's something you used to believe was great leadership, uh, maybe earlier in your career, but now with experience, you know it really wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, I think it's easy to conflate um overconfidence with great leadership, right? Um and now I have curiosity if someone's demonstrating a lot of uh what I would describe as like that overconfidence that almost feels like bluster. Um a leader has to be clear in their vision, don't get me wrong, but you also have to be able to justify that. Like give us the good reasons for us moving with boldness in this direction, right? And so I think as I got older, I knew that good leaders they might even use fewer words and their confidence might not look like a hero in a movie, but like it's there's a sureness and a steadiness, but also a well-thought out capacity uh in their leadership. And I think I used to fall for just whoever could give the best speech, you know, or look like television leadership. Um yeah. So and then the other thing I would say is, man, like I used to think that if you led in one capacity or something, that meant that you were a leader in all capacities. Um, but the older I get, the more I value, like, show me the fruit of your whole life. That's what I want to follow. Um, so if there's some awfulness happening in in parts of your world, like, man, it's probably a matter of time before it shows up over here, too. Um yeah. And I I don't think I believed that before.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

That's so true. So, what do you think helped uh shift your perspective? Was it a particular failure, some feedback, uh just fatigue with what you were seeing? I mean, what was there something in particular or a story maybe that helped shift your perspective on that?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah, I mean, I think I got to see up close and personal leaders who weren't very like commanding in that classical sense or something, but who also just steady showed up every day and got the job done, you know? And I got to see, oh, you could be that kind of leader. That's really good, you know. And then I got to see some leaders who could command a room, but then man, behind the scenes, things were falling apart, you know. Um, and so I think all of us probably go through a little bit of like a, oh, is there a great and mighty Oz? No, there is not, you know, at some point in our leadership journey. Um and I think that can be really healthy if we don't kind of turn that into bitterness or cynicism, right? But I think being willing to shift that into maybe curiosity and and being a better question asker. So, hey, I see that you have this bold, confident idea. What is the data behind it that makes you feel so bold about it? Right. And being able to meet a leader with that kind of energy and curiosity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

That's such a great point. I'm sitting here thinking, I don't know, you know, I study leaders, I work with leaders, uh, you know, studied it at an academic level, I have a doctorate in this stuff. And regardless of where all the study has come, I don't know of many leaders who have been effective over time that have been cynical. Yeah. I really don't know that I can name one who I would just classify as, well, they're pretty cynical, but they're a good leader. I mean, that I've never really thought about cynicism in that way. I mean, sarcasm, sure, you know, there's there's other things, but I've known sarcastic people who kept it to themselves and could be effective. But cynical, uh, that's such a that's such a really good word for us there.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, no, no, you can't. I mean, cynicism to me is an agreement that it won't work. Like you've already made up your mind, whatever the thing is. And so, like a really good leader, you know, asks, uh, you know, might say, Hey, this will work if this happens. And a cynic says, this won't work because. And that's like their starting posture, you know, and I think that difference is important.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

That's really good. So, experience uh has a way of sharpening our instincts, right? Uh, as you think about the experiences you've had as a leader in all the different settings where you've found yourself, what's a red flag in leadership that you can now spot almost instantly? But earlier in your career, you might have missed it or maybe even tolerated it. But now it's just a red flag that when you see it, you just know it is uh it's it's coming and it's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, I mean, anybody who's on a team with me who is unteachable, that is a very early red flag. And that's not something that I will deal with for long. Um so, like, if if there's a moment where you're showing kind of like, no, no, no, I refuse to be taught. Um not even by me, it could be just I noticed that somebody else is trying to teach this person, you know. Um, and if I address that with you and you um basically resist that admonishment, um, gentle and loving and you know, all the servant leader, you know, kind of vibes, right? Um, then you're not gonna be on my team for long. Um another red flag is man, if you're relying on me to start your engine, forget it. You've gotta be a self-starter. Um, so I can help coach and influence and guide, but if you don't have an internal drive, that's also I don't, I don't want to work with you. Um, and those are early red flags.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, those are both really good. And in our new book, The Core, we talk about one of the core principles being uh be coachable or teachable. Same thing. I that is a red flag for me. It's also one that I catch myself thinking about often, right? Is like, am I am I being coachable in this? When somebody points something out or I get some feedback, maybe I don't like it, or am I am I coachable? And uh it's it's one of those things that I try to think about and pay attention to, but it's so it's so it's such a challenge for people around you when you are not teachable, as you said.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

100%. I mean that what because it goes hand in hand with I want to work with passionate driven creative, low ego people. And if you're low ego, then you're always looking for the best idea in the room. That wins. Um, and so that's the kind of you know atmosphere that I'm trying to create, you know, that we try to build at corner to corner. It's what I'm trying to build in all my projects, is that kind of vibe.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah, I appreciate that. We're we're very similar in that desire to be around those kind of folks. That's uh it's a lot more fun. When you're the work is the work, but it's a lot more fun when people, uh, the people you surround yourself are low ego and eager to jump in and learn what it takes to go from there. So I want to ask you another question. Uh, this is one of those questions that for some, you know, it can hit close to home for a variety of reasons. Um so take us back maybe somewhere where there was a leader in your experience who made work maybe genuinely miserable even, but but you still taught you something valuable about leadership. Maybe there were some good, maybe there was some bad, maybe there were some ugly, but in the middle of a lot of ugly maybe or bad, you still learn something.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

I mean, I think that's true of any situation, right? Like if again, if you hold yourself in a learning posture rather than shifting into the victim mindset of like this person's just against me and this is only bad, you know, I think there's there's some gems you can mine, even from the toughest rock, right? And I had one of those, I I had somebody I long term grew to love and admire and respect. But early on was very tough, very hard. Um, and this is in my my uh research days. Um and I he would regularly assign me things that were close to impossible to pull off. And then if he detected from me any sort of resistance, you know, he would he would look at me um and and he would say something like, and I'll I'll bleep it out here, but he would say, Hey, Will, I'm sorry, but blank rolls downhill and you're at the bottom. Good luck, you know. Um, like he would outright say that kind of stuff. Um, or he would say, um, he might catch like half an eye roll from me, you know. This is early in my career. Uh, and then he'd go, Oh, I'm sorry, do you work in the salt mines? I was not aware, right? Um, and like he had this way of just kind of calling me out of some of that kind of victim mindset stuff early. Um, and then would challenge me to perform at a very high level. Um, you know, at a like a, hey, no, no, we're trying to publish in the most prestigious medical journals. That's what we're doing here. Like he he once handed me back something I had written and it was all redlined. I mean, like there was barely maybe the ths and the ifs and the ofs were, you know what I mean? But everything else was redlined. And he said, Oh, I'm sorry, you're confused. You thought we were writing for the Rolling Stone. Like that is, you know, we're writing for this medical journal. Um, but it like instantly, like it tapped into my competitive, let's go, you know, okay, you think that's let's I'm gonna get this right, you know. Um, and now I still 20 plus years later, we're still in relationship.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

That's awesome. So, in some ways, that experience helped shape you uh rather than kind of harden you to being taught as we were talking about earlier and being coachable, uh, really.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, yeah. But I also don't I have not taken what he gave me and used it verbatim on other people.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Well, there's a lot of times we learn lessons and we appreciate it, but we will not extend the lesson. We'll find a new way to teach uh 100%.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, yeah. The uh the um the college basketball player and me at a small college in Texas uh had a lot of those moments where I I learned something, and the way I learned it, it's even a story in the book. The the moment where I learned it is the the lesson was valuable, and I want to teach that lesson in different ways. And I think there's something to that. So throughout your uh career, and I think even especially now, in in the role you're playing with corner to corner, you're working with a lot of young leaders uh potentially. Uh those early career, they have big dreams, aspirations, they're entrepreneurs, whatever it may be. Um when you think about life as a as a young leader, we work with a lot of young leaders ourselves uh here at Great Days, and I think about this question a lot. Maybe it's one you've thought of. If you could sit down with your uh younger self, uh maybe early career, full of ideas, full of energy and even urgency. What is something you wish someone had told you about leadership back then? Yeah, uh you'd love to share with the listeners.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah, I think something I didn't know in my younger years was how much my passion could show up as impatience or anger, right? Like I think those are often those are often two sides of the same coin. Um and that my my urgency would have met uh been met with more proper and like positive response had I taken some of the heat out of it, you know. Um so that that's something I wish I had known earlier. The other thing I would say to anybody who's a young leader is don't follow the indirect path. I think this is so big. And and I found myself in moments in my career where I was doing this where like I was on point B and I wanted to get to point A, and I would make this sideways journey that went to all, you know, elementoped of get back to where I was trying to get to. And and I think it really came from a fear of being willing to ask for what I really wanted with boldness, you know? And so, like, if you're young in a company and you want to be an executive one day, say to leadership, I want to be on your executive training path. How do I do that? Like, where does that line start? Right. Versus like thinking in your head, maybe if I just show up and do a good job eventually, you know what I mean? Like, no, no, no, no. Say the thing that you want out loud and then do what it takes to get it.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Say it, say it, but with humility to know that there's also a lot of work, a lot of a lot of things that go into play in order to do that. But I love that. I I I think you're you're you're spot on. Um, knowing where you want to go is such a big deal. And I and I think in my work, especially, you know, I worked in higher education for 22 years, and I'd have people about to graduate come by the office and say, Hey, I'm about to graduate, what do you think I should do? I'm like, Well, where do you want to go? And they're like, Well, I don't know. I'm like, Well, what have we done here? You know, I mean, you have to have an idea where you're going and and why you're going, purpose and other things, but you gotta have an idea, and that can shift from time to time. But once you land on that, man, voice that, live into that, do the things that it takes to go that direction. And um yeah, it does that mess that's such a big deal, and so it does make uh such a difference uh in people. So why do you think it's so hard for for young leaders or early career people to to to think about that, to do that? Why do you think that's so hard?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Um, I mean, one, I think a lot of us don't know how to say what we want clearly and with um a desire to learn versus sounding too cocky. Do you know what I mean? Like we're I think we might be afraid that it will sound like we're already ready for leadership, you know what I mean? And that's not what I'm saying, right? I think there's a bit of that. I think a lot of us um maybe grew up with a um an idea that you being fully you is not ever possible. You've had to shrink for others, you know what I mean? Um, I mean, like I think of this, this is a great version of this, but like, you know, that moment where you come home maybe with an A and your mom goes, that's awesome. And then she looks at her other kid who maybe got a B, right? And then tones down her praise, you know, and and and you see the dynamic as a kid, and you go, Oh, I can't, I can't get the A or I can't be that. You know what I mean? What there's a million ways where we, I think, internalize, be smaller to make other people more comfortable. Um, like I think that is huge. But learning how to be fully yourself and to do that with love and compassion, not to do that in a way that runs over others, but rather sees others, honors them, builds them up, but also you get to run at your full speed. I mean, to me, that that is the goal.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

That's such a good, such a good uh line there. Uh to be yourself. We talk about being authentic. Uh that's a word that gets thrown around a lot, but there's so much value in that. Let's shift gears just a little bit. Uh, here at Bad Days Leadership, uh, we believe that mistakes are often the best teachers. Can you share a mistake or a maybe it was a leadership season of mistakes, uh which many of us have in our history. Uh maybe there was a mistake or a leadership season that significantly shaped how you lead today. Something from your past.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah, I mean, that's like which one exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

We got plenty of time, so just go on.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Well, so like I'll I'll I'll say this. Um so corner to corner, right? Uh the work that we do, we helped launch small business owners from low-income neighborhoods. We've graduated close to 1,800 of them. Um, we put $46.7 million back into the neighborhood economy just in 2025. And now we're launching a national product to partner with churches around the nation called Kingdom Founders so that other communities can repeat what we've done so they can love their neighbors to life, right? And I'm I'm so excited about that. But to your question about the mistake, um early on when we moved into the neighborhood, because my my wife and I wanted to get a theology of neighbor, how do you love neighbor as you love self? So we moved into a low-income neighborhood 20 plus years ago in Nashville. And man, I came in with a million wrong ideas about what poverty was, right? And it took literally years of me putting my foot in my mouth and neighbors who were close enough to me to kindly be like, hey, Will, you're being an idiot again. Can I help you take your foot out of your mouth? Right. Um, and so I would say that was a series of mistakes and wrong ideas that actually being in relationship. Relationship with helped me to transform what I really saw, right? So for example, um, oh man, poor people are poor because they're just not working as hard as me. Not true, right? Like I met amazing neighbors who were crushing it day in, day out. But if you stack three bad paying jobs together, you still have one bad paying job, right? Like that's how that works. And so um I had to I had to relearn all of that in relationship. But then the other thing that I think that, you know, kind of dynamically shifted for us was I thought that if you've just helped neighbors get um slightly better jobs, that that could launch them out of poverty. And I now think that was wrong. That was a mistake that delayed what we were really called to do, right? Um, because if I can help you get two to three more dollars an hour, right, um, by the end of the year, your family is not gonna feel that in a city that's getting as expensive as Nashville, right? Like that's gonna be wiped out. Whereas if I could give you the tools to launch and grow a small business and instead bring another $33,000 to $50,000 to your family this year, oh my gosh, right? Now something could really happen. But I spent a ton of time, I would say, repeating patterns that I thought were the right way to do it, even though I kept seeing my neighbors stuck in that cycle. And it was like I just wasn't willing to accept the data that was right in front of me. Um, but when I was willing to go, okay, maybe there's a better way, that that, but I mean, I spent years repeating that mistake.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

What an awesome experience, though, to and I suspect that for you and your wife, your family, and others that you work with that you know have spent a lot of time with you and the lessons you learned in, especially in that season or in this season you've been in for two plus decades, it sounds like it definitely has changed the way you think about systems, people, uh, the context that you find yourself in which you lead. And so I love that. I love that. Um failure. Failure is a word that uh a lot of leaders, a lot of people don't want to think about uh because we have this lack of uh maybe vulnerability. Maybe it's uh there's something inside of us that thinks I'm in this position of leadership, and so I'm not supposed to think about failure. Failure is not an option, you know. We all those kind of things. As we start to try to bring this home a little bit, what would you tell a leader, particularly a new leader, but any leader really, about failure, especially someone who's afraid of getting it wrong and letting people down?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first thing I would say is um you are gonna try a lot of things that won't work. And so the goal isn't to hit the bat perfect. The goal is to get enough at bats to average out, right? Like that's the goal. Um and so one, I would just say uh you have to have the emotional resilience that you are gonna be um not knowing the right answer a lot of the time, which is gonna lead to failure, right? Um so that'd be the first thing. It's just like accept that that there's not gonna be a day where you suddenly aren't dealing with that, right? Um, so the other thing I would say is once you kind of mentally, emotionally go, that's just part of my life now, if I want to stay in this space. Um, I think there's a great tool that I would advise anybody to use where like if you're facing something that feels like a big failure, get a blank sheet of paper and write out, right? On you put a line down the middle on one side, write out how you were feeling about that. I am heartbroken, I'm sad, I'm angry at myself. Like, write out all the heart stuff, right? So you can actually name it, feel it in your body, and let it go. Because you don't want that stuff driving your decision making. But so many leaders have zero self-awareness skills and they just stuff all that stuff and then they step forward, and all that stuff is the subcurrent that's driving their actions, right? And it will make you a less capable leader. So that'd be the first thing. Like, write that down on the left side of the paper. On the right side, write out the tactical and practical things you need to learn from this failure. So it could be, my gosh, I thought that product launch would really work. Well, man, looking back on it, we did not understand our target audience well enough. Do we now? No. How are we gonna learn our like go through the processes, right? To really practically get the benefits of the learning. Because otherwise, you're gonna pay for the same mistake twice. And that's how that gets expensive. If you're gonna buy an expensive lesson through a terrible mistake, only buy it once.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

That's right. That's right. Uh, just the other day, my teenage son and I were watching the Masters for a few minutes. And uh he is new to golf, uh, brand new middle school golf team kind of experience. It's a lot of fun to watch. Uh, but uh anybody who knows anything about golf knows it's really tough. Uh, people who've played forever, uh, you know, you have those moments where you look like you just started. Well, we turned on the masters for just a few minutes in the middle of a busy weekend, and uh two straight professional golfers, you know, hit shots off into the trees, off into the water, uh back-to-back shots. I don't remember who it was, it doesn't matter, but the the moment that we turned that on for just a few minutes was so powerful because I gotta say, look, even these guys who are the best at the best of the best, of the best, everybody does that. So when we're out at the driving range or we're playing at the little part of three course for kids, and we mishit one, it's it's okay. It's like we're gonna get back and hit the next shot. And uh I think there's something about how we reframe failure for people, for ourselves, but also for others, and in your role and in our role, uh the role I play uh in the in our company, you know, it's a lot of it's about risk taking. And how do you reframe failure for those that are uh you know in spaces to take risks as entrepreneurs, as small business owners, or whatever it may be. Uh it is such an important, important topic to understand and and become more comfortable with than probably most people grow up thinking uh about. Absolutely. Yeah. So I want to ask you a series of quick questions, okay, that deserve uh quick answers, no overthinking, uh just kind of what pops in your head. And then after we do this, I want to make sure you get a chance to talk a little bit about what's going on with you and corner to corner and anything coming up. But here's call it uh maybe a rapid reflection here, okay? So let's just go for it. Leadership without humility eventually leads to Man, your character won't match your leadership.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Like you will end up leading from your ego, and bad things will happen.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Bad things will happen. Second one, culture in an organization breaks down fastest when Oh, you are not honest. Honesty. I love that. That's a great answer. Great answer. The most underrated leadership skill is discipline. Discipline. I was told once by a guy who I really appreciate. I wish I could name his name, but it would probably be inappropriate for me not to get his permission. But he said, in life, if you want discipline in your organization, you have to be disciplined. And I thought I've thought about that a lot when it comes to the way I approach a day, the way I, you know, am I gonna exercise today and take that walk or go to the gym? Am I gonna take care of these things? That discipline piece is so uh so important. And here's one especially for you. Uh put your author hat on here. Maybe this will tie to to uh the book. The climb is worth it because man, I can't answer that without talking about my faith.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Um, the climb is worth it because uh the love of God is worth it. Like, I don't need an outcome, you know. Um, the instant you as a leader try self-worth to your outcome, you are signing up to be on the world's worst roller coaster. Um, because you will have high days and you will have crushing days. Um, and there's just no way around that. But when you tie your value to something that is uh foundational, um, that doesn't change, then you could have a zero out of 10. You could have the worst bad day, and your self-worth is still out of 10 out of 10 because it's grounded in something deeper.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Will you have spent uh your life uh helping people believe that opportunity is possible and that progress is worth the effort? For someone listening today who may be in the middle of a hard season, maybe they're involved in leading an organization, or maybe it's even their family or in their church or in their neighborhood, whatever it may be, that they're in a season where they find it to be uh heavy or uncertain. What's some encouragement that you would want to leave with them today?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yeah, so you know, I this is what I have done a lot of in my life. You know, part of our family story and the reason right why I wrote the book No Elevator to Everest. Um our son has multiple disabilities, including a rare disease. Like he almost died about five weeks ago, right? So this is an ongoing journey that we are in. And there's no silver bullet, there's no simple answer. And so some of your listeners are going to be in situations that are hard more than they're easy, more days than not. And so I just one, I would just say, I feel for you. I know how overwhelming that can be. And if you find yourself in one of those places, often I think that can lead to um bitterness or just a life shaped by sorrow. And we start to miss the joy that is possible even in the hard things. And so the first thing I would do is uh learn how to connect with yourself. If you can't do that, then you're always going to be in a reactionary place and never in a place where you're leading with your full self. And so, you know, for me, that meant recapturing my mornings, getting up early enough to spend time with myself, to even know what I felt, to name it, to feel it, to journal about it, to pray about it, right? And so the first thing I would say is just what would it look like for you to give yourself enough time and space to connect with yourself? So you no longer were in reactionary mode, but really leading with a renewed sense of connection and purpose. And if right now, if you're listening to that and say, oh, it must be easy for that guy, like, no, no, no, my son has multiple dis disability diagnoses, which includes a sleep disorder. So, like me getting up early enough was like 4 a.m. Okay. So if I can do it, I'm not special, y'all. You can do it. And all it takes is uh is 10 minutes to start. So give yourself the gift of 10 minutes and reconnect with self, um, is what I would say. The other thing I'd say is I wrote a whole book about how you can do this. Um, so no elevator to Everest. Um, I think it's on sale right now on Amazon. Go grab yourself a copy. And it's stories, but it's also practical guides on how you can take control of the rhythms of your life, even if you can't make some of your hard things easier. So that would be my encouragement uh to you to do in this in this season.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Will Acuff, thank you for your honesty, your leadership, and your commitment to building uh systems that allow people to thrive. If you haven't already, check out Will's book, No Elevator to Everest, and learn more about the work of Corner to Corner. And to our listeners, remember leadership isn't proven on your good days, it's revealed on your bad ones. If this episode resonated with you, please do not forget to like, subscribe, and share it with others you think might enjoy it. Until then, we will see you next time on Bad Days Leadership.