"A Boss Banned Talking and Replaced It With Red Solo Cups. It Got Worse." w/Amanda Box

Amanda Box — founder of Box Communications, communication evangelist, and the "Unleasher of the Awesome" — joins Dr. Matt Paden on the Bad Days Leadership podcast. Amanda shares the jaw-dropping story of a coach who opened the season by handing out "100 Ways to Have a Losing Season," a boss who banned talking in a call center and replaced it with red solo cups on filing cabinets (productivity dropped by a LOT), and the client relationship that stressed her into cold sores because she couldn't figure out why nothing she delivered was good enough. She breaks down why defensiveness is the red flag she spots fastest in leaders, how a simple pocket phrase can save you from blowing up a conversation, and why failure is just information — not identity. Plus, the retirement story about Joe that proves your leadership brand is the stories other people tell about you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Every leader has bad days. Most pretend they don't. This is a show where leaders stop pretending and start learning. Welcome to the Bad Days Leadership Podcast, where leaders pull back the curtain on decisions they cringe about, rumors they misread, and the failures that shake everything out. Real leaders, real mistakes, real lessons. Because you can't become a great leader without a few bad days. Welcome everybody to the show today. I am so glad that you have joined us. Our guest today is Amanda Box, my friend Amanda Box. Amanda is the founder of Box Communications, where she is a self-proclaimed communication evangelist and the unleasher of the awesome. She trains and coaches individuals and teams to improve their communication skills. She's done this for a number of years, and she really helps teams and organizations do so much to become more productive, to reduce conflict, and just to uh make a better difference in the world. And so she's been coaching, training, speaking, consulting within a wide range of businesses over the years. And I'm so glad that she is able to be on the show with us today. Amanda, welcome to the Bad Days Leadership Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Thanks so much. It's great to be here. I know this podcast is going to provide so many great resources for people out there. So I'm thrilled to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Thank you so much. We're glad you're here. It is uh gonna be a lot of fun. So one of the things I know uh and I'm learning as a consultant is that I've always loved the stories that consultants and trainers have. And I suspect that in your work as a trainer, consultant, speaker, you've been in different types of organizations all over the country. Uh, and I suspect uh you, as many consultants uh and trainers, you have some of the best stories. Uh, you get to see things from a different perspective, you get to swoop in, see, see some things, help people navigate challenges, talk through things, learn and grow, but you also get to observe. And I know I appreciate the opportunity just to observe and see what's going on. And so I suspect uh that you uh in your career have definitely definitely seen some of the good, the bad, and maybe the ugly when it comes to life inside organizations, right? Yeah, and today we're gonna focus on the bad and the ugly. That may sound weird, but no, we're gonna take a look at some of those maybe lessons that you've learned over the years, and then we're also gonna try to learn from them, right? I mean, we we appreciate the stories, we appreciate the the craziness that goes on in the world around us, but what we really want to take and help our listeners hear are the lessons that we've learned from that. And so I suspect you have some really good, bad stories, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yes, unfortunately, I think we learn more from those stories. And if I'm there, it means there's something to work on. If everything's going beautifully, then people are just celebrating the wins and going on. When things are not going so great, that's when people really start looking at the communication and they're thinking, hmm, maybe we better get maybe we better get Amanda in here and work on some things. So yeah, yeah, that's where I come in.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

No doubt. How long have you been doing the consulting and training stuff?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

A really long time. A really long time. 25 plus by now.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah. All right. Well, you have seen a lot and you have experienced a lot, and you've helped a lot of people uh navigate a lot of different situations inside the organization. But I'm curious as we begin here, uh, was there ever a leader uh that maybe that you observed or have worked with uh that you could just tell was making life miserable for the people around them? And maybe you've got some examples or some stories of that. We'd love to hear from that. And uh, and then maybe as you've worked with them or seen them over time, maybe there's some something you've learned from them.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Sure. I have a couple that come to mind right off the bat when you're saying miserable. Yeah. Unfortunately, we do have too many of those stories, but um, there was a coach, he was part of an athletic program. I'm gonna be super vague, you know, about all the yeah. I want these people to call me back, but this coach started out the season, the first team meeting, and he handed out this uh one pager, a hundred ways to have a losing season.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Wow, yeah. So that's just a hundred ways to have a losing season.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah. And uh as a previous coach yourself, can you imagine going into your first team meeting and they handed out something so depressing? I mean, that just sets the tone right there.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

It definitely sets a tone, like uh, we don't have much to work for here. It's only gonna get worse, uh, or it's only gonna get better, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

I don't know, but I think it's another way of saying, hey, losers, you know, you're I don't know. It's it's uh I thought that was especially bad. Then one of the things too that happens to me is I'm working with everyone in any any industry because communication is so critical to every other part of success there, that a lot of people will just share their horror stories. So some of these are not even mine. But one in particular, there was one of my clients, she used to work, and that's a key point right there. She doesn't work there anymore, but she kind of worked in this, like, it wasn't um a traditional call center, but it was like a help center. So there were lots of phones, they're in cubicles, and she said that she and our colleagues would give and take a lot of information. Like they would provide support for each other because it was just faster. And they had a supervisor who could help, but there's only one supervisor, you know, and maybe 25, 30 people on the team. Okay, well, the boss, whoever that was, decided there's too much chit chat going on, there's just too much talking. And and she was saying, Yeah, we would talk a little, but we were working. It's not like they were just hanging around telling stories, you know, like we're doing right now. They really were working. And so he put in a new system, they were in cubicles, and you weren't really allowed to talk at all. That's the rule. That's the rule. You're not allowed to talk at all. No, you're not supposed to be talking, you know, you just you're just wasting time with the combos. And so when you needed help, you're supposed to put this red plastic solo cup on top of your filing cabinet, and that was the very high-tech signal that you needed help. And when that happened, then you know, somebody would would come help you. But you can imagine that they were talking to each other for efficiency. And if there's one supervisor, not only is it very demeaning to treat adults like kindergartners, which they felt that insult, you know, and and lack of trust because it was an accusation. You're not working if you're having a conversation. And so they they did that system, which failed miserably. And the numbers show that they went down in productivity by like 25 or 30 percent. So it was just a crash and burn situation. And as you can imagine, too, people leave, like they're not gonna work in a place like that. So that was a really bad crash and burn situation.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

That's that's interesting. How long ago do you think that was? It wasn't that long ago. The red solo cup. It's like raising your hand to touch.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yes, it was so it was it was so demeaning and just insult the whole thing was insulting and a terrible idea, too. Like, if it works, I'm not gonna push back too hard on that. Like, oh, that seems weird, but it's so much faster. Like, I don't think I could really logically argue, but when you're insulting people, you're accusing them of being lazy, which is what how what was happening, and not really knowing what's going on, you're just seeing from afar that people are talking to each other. And then you contrast that with other research that says when people have, and I will name this name because it's a good story. Uh, it was Bank of America. They do have really large call centers, and but retention's tough. And so they started talking to people, doing some real research, and the people that stayed had some rapport, had a little bit of time with their friends. So they changed their break rooms and changed their break schedules so people could have some rapport, a little bit of a socialization. And their numbers went up in the millions. I'll have to look up that exact number, but so anyway, those those are very contrasting stories right there.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, but it's like one is just opposite of everything you would think of as a human. Like we don't want to communicate, we don't want any interaction, versus hey, let's put some people together and see what happens. And let them let them know each other and let them have a sense of communication.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I know I say that all the time. Like you're you're you don't stop being human because you're at work, like you're still human. Yeah, the human rules still apply.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

That's incredible. Those are great stories. Uh uh, I the red solo cup thing that kills me. It's that's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

But she said it it like, you know, that's a tough job anyway when you're solving problems on the front lines with people, but she said it just got toxic after that.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah, and and just retention problems are just they're so I mean, retention is like one of the most underutilized statistic data points, right? I mean, that as you as companies are, I mean, people think about it, but it's just it's so expensive to replace people, to train them, all that stuff, and you're just running people off by doing it.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

You're running people off, yeah. You're running people off.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. So those were examples um that you've seen or heard or had other people share with you. Those are wonderful. Did you ever see something? Maybe it was in a boss you had yourself, maybe it was in somebody that uh you were working with as a consultant or trainer where you you promised yourself that you would never repeat what they have uh demonstrated, right? Like as soon as you saw it, you're like, that is terrible. I will never do that in my life and in my career. Anything like that ever come up for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Well, sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

I think it I don't know that I ever had somebody like be truly abusive or you know, anything like criminal like that. But I did have a boss who would just hang on to things. Like he was super, super detailed and it came from a good place, but it just stalled out. You know, if he hung on to everything until he had time to do it, then it didn't get done because there's a reason you have a team of people to work on something. And that was that was pretty frustrating. So I'm a very high trust person. I'm gonna trust you until you prove you can't be trusted. And then, you know, that don't know if that's um all the time the absolute best route. Uh, but uh to me, it's a faster route anyway. You're gonna give information faster than just a stall out. So that was that was one thing. I I have had a little sabotage.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Oh yeah, sabotage. All right, tell us about sabotage.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Well, if somebody sets you up to fail or starts throwing a lot around language, you know, when you're new that they know you don't understand. Um, you know, even I remember this is popping into my mind when I was waitressing in um a place. Again, being vague. But I had been there a couple of weeks, it was a summer job, and I messed something up. You know, you've only been there two weeks, and as a waitress, you're you're juggling a lot of information and um people and actions. And so I yeah, one of definitely one of the line cooks said, You should know by now. And I had been there two weeks. Well, and I was like, you know what, that is so impatient with somebody who is brand new, you know, to this organization. So this the sabotage of setting you up where you're probably not gonna know what you're doing, you know, to set or even the feeling of being set up to be embarrassed or humiliated or be perceived as incompetent in some way. And um, you know, certainly the impatience, that's not gonna build a team. You know, that's that's gonna make somebody go find another job, like we just talked about. So that's that's the real takeaway there. You you wanna bring people in, not run people off. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So when you go into organizations, and I know you go in and do a lot of training and speaking, and and sometimes you work, you kind of embed yourself into these organizations and you get you know regular recurring uh kinds of uh you know connection and monthly, you know, conversations and that sort of thing. I know a little bit about what you do there, but um when you go into organizations, and are there red flags that that kind of you just see immediately, or are there some certain things that you can spot when it comes to red flags and leadership? Yes, uh that you sense pretty quickly as somebody who gets to be involved in a variety of different types of organizations that you just automatically see that.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, for sure. One of the well huge red flag to me is defensiveness. And that can be just a bad habit. Some some personalities just challenge whatever you're gonna say, you know, they're just gonna push back on whatever you're gonna say. But if that's perceived as defensiveness and the leader is the one being defensive, then a lot of bad things are gonna follow because you can't defend and listen at the same time. Those don't work. If if I if I make a mistake as a team member and I am afraid to come to you because of the backlash of what you're gonna say about me or to me, like the you know, you're not punching me in the face, but my body is gonna react like that. And so that means I'm gonna start hiding stuff, which is not good. And if somebody is defensive in that way, there's really just no way to get where you want to go with a specific culture. So leaders have to, I think that's one of the biggest things that leaders have to do is edit out the defensiveness because the great ones they are crazy about information. You know, they're they're fascinated, they're not frustrated with something. And we could, and I know you know this, but they're any any leadership book that you read, they're gonna say these leaders ask good questions and they don't overreact to the answers. They want any competitive edge. I mean, the athletic world a lot too. And that's why coaches just absolutely consume information about leadership is because there's a scoreboard, there are thousands of people watching, there's a very clean uh clear win loss. And so anything that gets them the edge of winning that competition, then it can't be defensive. You know, it has to be very open. And and business leaders are the same way. Educators, it doesn't matter, you know, what whatever leadership position you're in.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So we we tell people a couple things that come to mind. Just uh I've heard this said for years, and I've been saying it for a long time myself, but leaders are lifelong learners.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I mean, I mean, the the most impactful, effective leaders are lifelong learners. And so moments where somebody comes in to teach something, they may not agree with everything, but they their posture is that I'm here to learn. Not here to fight you in what you're saying, not because I'm the expert already, right? I mean, and and you mentioned leadership books. Obviously, we've got one that uh we have a principle, core principle in the leadership core that we talk about, and that's the idea that you got to be coachable.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Yes, absolutely. And in fact, you have to be coachable, yeah, and that's very much a body language kind of thing. So in communication, it's a learned physical skill, just like playing in the guitar or playing basketball, like it's a learn physical thing. So one of the best things you can do to edit out the defensiveness is to edit in a habit of response. And so I'm, I mean, I will admit I'm defensive too. Ask my family. And I work on it all the time. And the way I work on it and help my clients work on it is when you're feeling that teeny attack or a little red flag goes up, here's your pocket phrase. And pocket phrases are just words you keep in your pocket to pull out on an awkward moment or uh a potentially defensive moment. And so mine for that one is just thank you for sharing that. You know, that's my habit to say thank you for sharing that. And I can't, you know, you can't do that with a clenched jaw. Thank you for sharing. I mean, you can, but it you wouldn't. And so that gives your brain a second or two just to recognize that you do need that information because it's very instinctual to be defensive when I've worked super hard on something, I'm invested in something, then that defensiveness just means you care. It just doesn't work interpersonally. It works if somebody's about to punch you in the face. But with working with other people, the defensiveness is only gonna just cause a lot of damage.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, that's a good word right there. That the the pocket phrase, uh, I love that. Uh, I talk about principles that I kind of keep rolling around in my head. The pocket phrase may be a better way to say that. That's that's so good. So when we talk about bad days, and it's not just the days that we've seen in others, right? Uh sometimes we have them ourselves, right? I know people are shocked, but no, we do have bad days, and uh we've all had them. Uh, talk to us a little bit about uh maybe some mistakes that have shown up in some of your uh less than stellar days, potentially, uh, that have helped shape your current leadership style and your approach to running your company and with your team, and and then as you go in and help others as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Well, there's no shortage of those things to choose from, but as let's just continue the the conversation about defensiveness because I told I shared I am defensive by nature, and it took me a long time to even realize that. Uh uh because it's embarrassing. Nobody wants to be defensive. But I had this one client where I was really feeling the scrutiny. So we had this initial meeting. It's my job to go into a group of strangers and connect quickly. Let's go, let's get everybody engaged in these ideas to make your day better, to make your life better, to make your team stronger. And I've had over 25 years of doing just that. Started when I was a college professor by college freshmen who taught me an awful lot because they did not want to be in speech class. And I didn't realize how much they didn't want to be there until I got my evaluations. So that's that's one failure right there is when I got my evaluations that very first semester. Like I cried for a couple of days because I poured my little professor heart, you know, into these classes because I understood really what communication could do for them, if they could prevent uh present themselves and their ideas with polish and confidence and just credibility. But wow, I had a lot to learn. I had a lot to learn. Um, I was too smart, Alec. You know, I wasn't, I was only 24, so I was barely older than they were. And so when they would, you know, smart off, well, I would smart off back. Well, I was in the position of authority. And I thought we were just, you know, just having a little quip, but no, it was embarrassing for them. And I didn't want that to happen. So anyway, I learned an awful lot of what not to do. And yeah, it was a hit, but it it made me much stronger immediately. So you fast forward to just a couple of years ago. I started working with this one client and we connected quickly and they asked for an outline and this and that. And so the first meeting went great, but after that, it was awful. Like they wanted to know every word that was coming out of my mouth, which I don't even know every word that's coming out of my mouth. Generally, clients just want to know that I have a plan. They don't really want to get in the weeds of that, and so I I just wasn't used to the scrutiny, so much so that we did this trial run and it it didn't go that well. And so, you know, I I was getting I got a cold sore, you know, just from the stress of it. And we I got there, I got there what they wanted, but I really had to adjust and and really think about what was going on. And what was going on is that this was the first job. They hadn't I hadn't had a chance to earn their trust. And I think it was a reasonable. thing to earn their trust. And when they kept sending things back, I was like, okay, let me, let me listen more accurately. Let me see what they're missing here that I'm not showing them that they can trust. And so I wanted, I was feeling defensive. I was feeling this trust. But but more than those things, I wanted to meet the needs of their people because this was they wouldn't have hired me if it wasn't important. And it was important. It was an it was an important job for them. I was preparing a big group of their people to do something very specific. And so we finally got there and I have I've had multiple jobs with them and the whole time I was like Matt, they're going to fire me. And really they need to like I'm not the right person. You know that's how much I was feeling it. But I just kept I just kept learning what they wanted and how they wanted it. And they needed to see a lot more tangible information from me, which I thought that was fair. And then later I learned that they were getting a lot of pressure from the top. So it wasn't just some pointed thing of trying to make me miserable which is kind of how those stories are told sometimes, you know you're a control freak, you're this, you're that no, they were feeling pressure. They wanted to make sure I was going to deliver on what I and they weren't seeing what they needed to. So you know it had a happy ending. But every time I worked with them for a couple of years I would get a cold sore. Wow. It was just the stress but that did help me get better. It was just, you know, just took a little more doing and and people like us Matt who we're just in front of thousands of strangers all the time. Like we make friends easily. So it was just an unusual experience for me in that way. But it was good. It was good.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yeah it's almost like the the process to refinement right is it's not the process you wanted to go through. But I mean there's something I mean biblical about you know going through the things you've got to persevere in order to produce the you know the character that that you know I mean there I don't want to over theological you know I don't want to make this too theological in terms of what you were experiencing in your work world there, but the idea is that you had to go through something. To come out on the other side for them. And they were put getting pressured right so that they could produce something on the other side. And I think sometimes people forget the systemic nature of uh what's going on in organizations.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

I mean there are things that are connected sometimes we don't even see how the connections right yes and a lot of that comes from like it could have gotten conflicted but I remember one meeting where pocket phrases really saved me just from having these habits. They were trying to be careful and I said hey I want to get this right say what you need to say and I and that humility saved me you know because I wanted to do a good job better than I wanted anything else. So if it's a hit for me I don't I don't care about that. I'm kid number four you know it was my job to eat what was on my plate and get in the car you know so we just had to go with a poor child number four. Yeah that's probably a whole nother episode Amanda where we talk about being the fourth child and what does that mean and how does that frame your life right I don't know you just have you just have to be flexible to do what your client needs and I think strong leaders have a humility because it's required yeah that's we are not naturally born that way I don't think but when but I'm also um I also am very efficiently oriented like I want to get there the fastest way possible. And humility is the fastest way to get there. You know just be quiet and listen. All that other stuff is just going to get in the way of doing anything healthy productive for anybody. So it's uh it's it's not it's not natural but it is faster.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

That's good. That's really good. That's really good right there. I uh we all need to hear that appreciate you saying that it all ties together right this humility this willingness to learn this willingness to listen uh to be coachable all these things it's a posture leadership is so much about posture and you know there's people who have the posture like I'm here I've risen to this spot and I know all the things I've done all the jobs I have all the experience whatever it doesn't get you very far.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Well no it it doesn't and that's why uh that's why creating habits of calming things down not shutting things up and we're not talking about being passive we're just talking about being a calm voice in the room and I do everything this high off the ground I'm probably never the calmest one in the room but um I'm not panicking you know I'm I'm excited because of what I'm doing that day or whatever. When something goes wrong, hey, settle down little buckaroo you know we're gonna eat this elephant one by at a time let you know what's our first step here instead of just you know a big freak out that nobody knows what to do with and just is so so awkward and unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I love that we are now officially going to title this episode Settle Down Little Buckaroo in honor of your your just your statement right there. Our guest today our guest today is Amanda Box founder of Box Communications consultant speaker trainer I'm gonna ask you one more question and I want to give you a chance to not just respond to that question but tell us a little bit about what's going on with your work um but this is a question that I would love to uh ask a lot of different people or I do love to ask a lot of different people uh when we work a lot with new and emerging leaders uh we we just feel called to help people who are stepping into these spaces in particular we have a passion for working with those that have been on the team who are now leading the team you know they've made the jump from buddy if you will to boss I think uh a book was written years ago about that but so we talk to new leaders pretty regularly what would you based on your experience uh personally and professionally uh what would you like to tell uh new leaders about what they're going to encounter as as a or as they encounter failure those bad days where things don't go the way they they thought they would or projects that don't go in the direction or aren't as successful as they thought whatever it may be that a bad day represents uh what would you tell a new leader about dealing with those days that are less than uh expected or desired while it's not the most fun thing nobody wants failure we all want success but have you ever noticed how overnight success comes with about 20 years behind it that we just don't know about that yeah yeah I I don't know many overnight uh success stories that don't have a long long time ago in a in a dark room somewhere I was thinking about something and couldn't figure out how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah exactly failure is just information it's just information sometimes people can really def they can I think escalate what failure means and this one moment does not define the rest of your career or your identity or anything except you just have to look at it as yeah you know that's not fine I don't want to do that again that was painful and how were you gonna take steps with the information we have and that is a humility you know to to move forward so you just have to look at it like that and and you have to plan for that too and that's another reason why strong communication habits are so important because if you're shocked that you fail I'm gonna say you're not ready to be a leader. And that's okay we can get you there but leadership is really service. It's you know leadership is not just a title and power you know that can be a real twisted view of leadership. Leadership is doing what needs to be done. So failure is going to be a part of it just like failure is a part of everything else. So we just can't be shocked by that. I think you absolutely need to get a plan in place and a mentor I like a mentor about 10 years out ahead of whatever position someone's in myself included and they can help you through that. So your you know your first phone call is somebody to say okay you know give it to me straight what what's my next move right here and I will tell you this teeny little story I was working with a government agency and lots of people come out of the military and go into civil service I was there on a day there was actually the uh the man's last day there and he you could tell by what other people were saying about him I he and I'll name him but you won't know who he is Joe well Joe is this well Joe is that I mean he was so well respected, beloved. So again I'm always scavenging for one more little piece of information and he I said okay Joe you know what's the secret sauce here and he said just know your people know your people it's such a good word we two things that and as as we think about moving towards the end here two things that you just mentioned one the first uh your husband is a very successful college baseball coach has had a long career in a lot of prestigious institutions uh and has done a lot of good things on the baseball field so he may res you may have heard this before I I know I didn't come up with it but I have to remind myself often and and have had to remind myself often over the years and others as well that leadership and failure go together and really it's not about wins and losses it's about wins and lessons.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Oh sure yes wins and lessons and what you're just describing uh potentially to a new or a young or emerging leader is you're gonna learn a lot of lessons and you've got to be willing to do that. Second thing uh your story about I think you said Joe. Yeah uh Joe if you're out there listening well done um we tell people all the time that your leadership brand is the stories that people tell about you. That's good. It's not the stories that you tell about you. Your brand is held in the perceptions of other people and it it comes from consistency and uh time in dealing with you. And people at their retirement ceremonies, people at their 80th birthday parties when somebody's telling a story right it's not just that one time experience it's it's over time it's but it's this consistency kind of like you when you choose uh where to go eat on a road trip you're gonna pull into a certain place probably more often than not based on things that you expect and that you come to um uh just just that place becomes known for in your mind right and that's how people are too and so when you described that a second ago I thought man what a great example of a brand leadership brand probably somebody who not every day was great but they learned lessons along the way and overall they probably in this case Joe probably served his people well and his brand was strong.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yeah and I want to just make one clarification here Joe's not saying be nicer. Right and I'm not saying if you're a great communicator you're necessarily nicer. If your communication skills are strong you're gonna be able to handle those really difficult conversations in a way where people still want to be on your team. So it's really this capability of of doing difficult things making the tough call which that's required even if I I mean we're not gonna do that perfectly and people don't expect that. But your communication skills absolutely allow that they create a situation and a culture where you're doing the difficult things that must be done. Like we need to have more difficult conversations not fewer difficult conversations. And that's why those habits of credibility and just this expectation that we will have conflict and we are going to have failure. I I hope not every day.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

But it's a real delusion if you think that's not going to happen and you're gonna crash and burn fast, especially if your identity is tied up in that. Yeah well you've been a fantastic guest today tell us a little bit about uh what is uh what are you most excited about right now with uh you with your company and your work uh what are some sort of what are some things coming up for box communication well you mentioned being the unleasher of the awesome in the intro and I have to say when you ask me you know what are you excited about that's what I'm excited about because when I'm going into any organization or doing executive coaching one-on-one then I don't add anything to your resume your experience your IQ any of that what I do is teach you strong structures I teach connection skill strategy so that everybody else can see the awesome like you're already awesome my job is to help you show that so authentically and sincerely to other people so for me when I'm seeing my clients do things on their own it is like a super bowl win for me because I'm just their biggest cheerleader and I love the stage and a microphone too I've got a couple of keynotes coming up that I'm really excited about. I've got a museum up in New York that I'm gonna go help with customer service and then just anybody that I can really help that's that's my communication evangelist in me that I'm always in this persuasive mode trying to help people that hey work on this first everything else is going to go better with that connection strategy and skill.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

That is so good. Well you do a wonderful job we are also blessed to have you as part of our extended family at Great Days leadership and we're eager to uh uh have opportunities to work with you to learn alongside you to learn from you and I know that those listening to this episode will be blessed and their work and their leadership will be uh benefited from your wisdom and so we just want to say thanks for uh being with us today and uh just know that uh uh we have learned from the bad days you've experienced and we hope that others will as well so thank you so much for being with us today and uh we hope that uh uh that you've had a good time I know I've enjoyed listening to your stories always always stories are the best thank you for having me absolutely we appreciate you so much uh we thank you for listening and we hope that uh beyond the bad days that emerge we hope you have uh more great days in front of you