Ep 12 Mark Mabry, Photographer & Writer

Episode 12: Capturing Faith Through the Lens with Mark Mabry

In Episode 12 of Shutter’s Full Podcast, hosts Alisa and Brittany sit down with renowned photographer Mark Mabry for a deeply moving conversation about faith, creativity, and the power of visual storytelling. This episode dives into how one artist’s willingness to follow inspiration led to the creation of an entirely new genre of photographic depictions of Christ.

Mark shares the incredible origin story behind Reflections of Christ, the groundbreaking body of work that reimagined scriptural moments through powerful, cinematic photography. What began as a personal creative endeavor quickly grew into something much larger, ultimately expanding into both a feature film and a published book that have reached audiences around the world.

Throughout the episode, Mark pulls back the curtain on the stories behind his most meaningful images—moments of challenge, inspiration, and unexpected miracles that shaped the work along the way. He shares how these visual depictions have touched hearts globally, helping viewers see familiar stories in new ways and, in many cases, drawing people closer to Christ.

Alisa and Brittany explore the deeper mission behind Mark’s art: not just creating beautiful images, but creating experiences that invite reflection, emotion, and spiritual connection. His journey is a powerful reminder that creativity can be a ministry, and that art has the ability to communicate truth in ways words alone sometimes cannot.

This episode is both inspiring and thought-provoking, offering listeners a behind-the-scenes look at how faith, courage, and vision can come together to create work that leaves a lasting spiritual impact.

https://reflectionsofchrist.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hey y'all. Welcome to Shutters Full Podcast, where we talk with creators, dreamers, and doers who are chasing purpose and building something meaningful.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

It is not about what you do, it's why you do it. And today we have Mark Mavrie on the podcast. Hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_06 0:25

Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

We are so excited to have you because we've had a lot of singer-songwriters on here, and we're both excited to have a fellow photographer on here because we're like, this is what we do. Yes. You know, so we can relate and have some like deeper conversations.

SPEAKER_06 0:40

I'm thrilled to come on and talk about photography.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:42

Like honestly, um, I don't even know where to start. This is a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

We'll start for you. For those who don't know you, how would you introduce yourself and your art?

SPEAKER_06 0:51

I started as a commercial photographer, went to a Brooks Institute of Photography in Santa Barbara, dropped out. Um, because that's what you do for art school. Like you have to drop out, especially if it's that expensive.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Like, oh yeah, they're usually really expensive too.

SPEAKER_06 1:04

You're not coming out with like doctor after your name, drop out of art school as soon as you have the tools. Yeah. And that's what I did. So I was a commercial photographer in Phoenix for seven, eight years. And then I decided to do a Christian project, just a passion project. I did a project called Reflections of Christ, it went viral, and that like changed the trajectory of my life. Yeah. Completely. I became an artist, not a photographer.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:29

And then and I've heard you guys talk about that. You're like, the first time you got to shoot an album cover, it was like art.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

Instead of like, hey, make my family look normal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:38

Um, and I fell in love with that, and then I moved to Texas. I was um Glenn Beck's creative director for three years at the Blaze. Um, that was awesome. And then I took a marketing job because I got tired of the Blaze. Uh, Glenn and I are still really good friends. Um, we were just visiting each other a couple of weeks ago. I just got it was too all-consuming for me as a dad, and so left there.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:59

Anyway, so who am I? Um I'm I'm just like a I'm a an artist.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

I have a couple songwriting credits.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Yes, we're gonna as I dive into that too.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

Yeah, and I've co-produced an album that did well, they charted.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Oh my gosh, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

But I'm not like a musician.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Yeah, you know, not not that formal. You're an artist in every sense of the word, though. It sounds like and I love it.

SPEAKER_06 2:24

And every time I try to do something else, I fail miserably. Yeah, my wife and I are like, we don't go out to eat because it's expensive, but when we want to waste money, we make an investment. Yeah, and it always goes bad. Oh, I mean I'm the worst investor in the world.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

In my head, I was just like, like the radio stations was that like a thing? Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

Done. Lost money there.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

One minute you were like, I bought a bunch of radio stations. Okay, how's that going? Uh, we sold it.

SPEAKER_06 2:47

Yeah, that was eight months later.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:50

And I was like, long drive, sold it. But anyway, yeah, so I'm a horrible investor, but I I love the thrill of it. Yeah. Might as well go to Vegas. I'd have a better chance.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Oh, might as well. How did you get into photography?

SPEAKER_06 3:02

You know, it's interesting. I wanted to be a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:05

Um, I was going to Arizona State pre-law. I was a junior studying uh political science and a minor in Russian.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:14

I'm a Russian speaker.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Did you go on your mission to Russia?

SPEAKER_06 3:17

I went on my mission to Russia. Okay, that's what I thought. So 97 and 99, I lived in Russia, so I was fluent in Russian, came back. I'm like, this is easy. So studied Russian and political science, and then on 9-11, the actual 9-11, not the anniversary of. Yeah, I I wake up and I'm, you know, I've got a one-year-old son and my wife, and it's like 6 a.m. in Arizona. And my mother-in-law is like, are you guys watching TV? I watched TV, I watched plane one or plane two crash. You know, we tuned in between plane one and plane two and a moment.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:47

Like, what in the world? But still, it's New York, it's a world away.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:50

And I was sitting in class and it was a politics of a revolution class. And on the way from my house to ASU, I'd had enough time to at least listen into the radio enough to where I was like, okay, something bigger. This wasn't an accident.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:04

You know, there's something crazy, and we don't know what, you know, the government hadn't yet spun a narrative. Um, and so it was mysterious. And I'm sitting in this politics of a revolution class with this guy that's supposed to be a brilliant international politician, does not mention it, does not mention 9-11.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

That's shocking.

SPEAKER_06 4:20

And I was like, this is kind of dumb.

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:22

And then I go into my next class.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

They're like business as usual.

SPEAKER_06 4:25

Yeah, business as usual. And I just got up and I walked down. It's like, this is so dumb. And I was working with a photographer at the time, and I had never done anything in photography other than just like carry this guy's bag around because my parents are like, hey, our friend's a photographer, and he needs a guy to carry his bag around. I was like, I can carry stuff. Yeah. And so I walk out of class and I walk into the ASU bookstore. I'm a sucker for magazines. I love magazines. And so probably you guys are maybe similar. Like you go to a magazine rack and you're like, oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:54

You're just like looking at the photography. Um and this is pre anything social media, 2000, like 2000 or whatever it was, 2001. And I saw a PDN, Photodistrict News, and I liked that magazine. I was looking at it, and I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna be a photographer. Honestly. I walk out of school, I go home, and this is in September, because September 11th. Yeah, you know, right at the beginning of the semester. You just started. Yeah, and I went home, and no one in my my parents didn't graduate from college, my sister did, but I wasn't really involved in it. So I didn't know how records work. And I was just kind of going to college, racking up credits.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:28

I walked out, didn't withdraw, just left.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:32

Right. And so I went home and I told my wife, I'm like, I just want to be a photographer. She goes, Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Um we love a supportive wife.

SPEAKER_06 5:40

Yeah, what now? Yeah, you're not making money anyway, so you might as well not make money as a photographer. Um, I go, but I want to do it right. And so I looked at photography schools and I'm like, let's move to Santa Barbara. And we had this beautiful little house in this cute little neighborhood that we like managed to get in when houses were affordable, and we sold it and we moved to Santa Barbara and we went to Brooks for about a year, maybe a little more than a year, until I was pawning lenses to make rent. And then I was like, Well, crap, looks like I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

And came back and had had a great career. Like I was loving it. I did a ton of portrait work, but I kind of like felt myself slipping. And I was like, I'm I didn't, I had like zero satisfaction.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:19

Not a lot of meaning. Now there is a meaning, because you know, you go to shoot like a family, for instance, and somebody's like, hey, my husband has stage four cancer, right? And we need a family picture, and you're like, Yeah. Like those were highly meaningful.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:31

Or you take a picture. I was shooting one time, I was at a wedding, and there was this little girl, everybody was late. You know how that goes.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:37

And so there's this little girl just playing around, cute little girl, big blue eyes. And she's just playing around, and I'm just taking pictures of this little girl because I was bored.

SPEAKER_05 6:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:45

And um, like three weeks later, she drowned.

SPEAKER_05 6:48

Oh my gosh. Oh my god. Like that stuff's meaningful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:51

But everything else wasn't meaningful. Um, like Barrett Jackson auto auction, not meaningful. Yeah. You know, there's a model sitting on a car, which when you're young and stupid, you sit a model with a sequin dress on a two billion dollar car. I did that. And the owner of the car is like, you know, um, yeah, don't scratch the paint. Yeah, don't scratch the paint. I was like, she's not that heavy. She's like, I don't care. Anyway, and so I was getting kind of worn out, and I was like, I gotta get out of this. Like, I can't do this. This doesn't photography is not gonna scale for me emotionally. This is dumb. And plus, and now we're at like 2006, and real estate is just like booming, and everyone, all my friends are getting rich doing just stupid land deals. I'm like, well, I want to be rich. Jeez. Um, but I didn't know yet that I was a horrible investor.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 7:40

That has revealed itself in the 20 years after 2026, including money that I invested in 2026. Um, I I was just kind of tired, so I really made it a matter of prayer. And I'm like, what am I gonna do with my life? And I got nothing. It was like it was I got white noise from heaven. Nothing. And I kept praying and I kept praying. And I got a little like inkling, like, change your music. I had a great collection back when iTunes was 99 cents apiece before they went to a buck twenty nine before they went to free. And I had all sorts of crap. And I was like, this is like littering my head. It was brain rot before we could scroll.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:16

And so I did. I just like trashed almost my whole catalog. Probably a thousand dollars in music.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 8:22

Which for me at the time was a ton of still a lot of money, you know. Especially when you're talking just digital music assets. Got rid of it, and I was like, oh, and I could hear a little better. Next thing, okay, what? God got rid of my music. Now I'm just can't work out because you can't work out the country. Sorry, everybody in the and then it was like, hey, get rid of get rid of your books. I had all these art books from photography school, and I don't know if this was like a symbolic gesture of like like throw away everything you know about art and photography and just like start over.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:52

Or if it was the fact that like some of the stuff in these art books is trash, you know. If it wasn't called an art book, it might be called pornography.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:01

And I was like, I don't need that sitting there, especially when I've got now at this point two little boys that are gonna be running around the house that can mess up any human, especially young boys. And so I was like, all right. And I went one early, it was a Sunday morning that I got that idea. I went over to my studio, which is a couple miles from my house, I like dump everything in the trash.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:20

And uh wheeled it out to the curb. I'm like, before I come to my senses, I'm gonna wheel these all these books that were expensive.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

Like hundreds of dollars worth of books, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:28

I wheel them out to the curb and and luckily they got dumped before I could like go and go and salvage. Yeah, go and salvage, and then um just like things, you know. I was completely hooked on energy drinks, which is funny because I drink a Celsius on the way here.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

But I'm gonna like call you out for that. Yeah, like wait, didn't you just drink a Celsius?

SPEAKER_06 9:47

Yeah, but it used to be I couldn't function.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

Oh, and then I was like you were dependent.

SPEAKER_06 9:51

Yeah, and this is 2006 again. Early adopter of bad habits because they were brand new, like a monster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. And I couldn't function, so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna quit. So I quit cold turkey. And all of a sudden now I've got I've got nothing good to read, no music, and headaches. Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

But but you've purged your life.

SPEAKER_06 10:09

I've purged my life, and then all of a sudden it was like, do a project about Jesus. I'm like, it's cute. Like, I'm not Michelangelo. Painters do that.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:17

There is nothing had been done photographically.

SPEAKER_04 10:19

Yeah, I was talking to Brittany about this. I thought I I think our church didn't want photographic depictions of Christ. They wanted paintings.

SPEAKER_06 10:28

It was like written, they've got like art guidelines. It was like written out, but big deal, you know. I it's that's a church rule, not a not a gospel truth. Right. And so I kind of went on a like an art fast. I wasn't looking at anything. It's like, okay, and I was just starting to visualize, say, how could I do this? How could I do this? And in our town, we had this big Easter pageant. And I so I called the director who was a client of mine, kind of told of this idea. It didn't have a name, it didn't have anything. I was like, I want to shoot some scenes. I go, when I get done, you can use them for PR or whatever. Oh, yeah. Like, I just want to get this out of my system so I can go make money in real estate. Um lose money in real estate.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

Man, but from the time I started to shoot, it was like woo. Like I came alive. My photography business tanked because I was so preoccupied. Like I wanted to shoot a depiction of the angels flying. Right? We got wildly creative. Like I was praying one night and I saw like how I wanted the angels positioned in the air. And I got up. I can't draw. I got up and I drew like stick figures of how I have it somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:29

Like angels, big round head, big nose, like stiff body, like flying with a trumpet. Yeah, it was and I took that and I was like, okay, how can we make this happen? How can we make these guys fly? Like without harnesses.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:41

All right. I grew up on a trampoline. I have seven sisters jumping on the trampoline and doing flips. Everyone in our family could tumble.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:47

Because my big sister could tumble. So that's just what you did. You know, like we can't want these round, like childproof trampolines. Yeah. It's got to be like one of the old school, you can like rectangle ones. You can break your neck on it rectangle one enough to get high, right? And I had a friend with a big studio. He was like, dude, I want to come shoot in your studio. I need to shoot a bunch of angels like flying on a trampoline. He goes, All right. So we booked the day and we lit this thing all up super cool, like big strip light, like you light a car with, you know, on the ceiling. And I could finally flex all the stuff I learned at Brooks that you can't do at a family shoot.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

And I was supposed to be shooting the next day, and I still hadn't found a rectangular trampoline, but I wasn't like worried about it. And guy walks in, I was shooting his tools, and I was like, Hey man, do you know anyone with a rectangular trampoline? Not a lot of people had those in 2000, right? Because they're already like the band. The yeah, like the Karen trampolines. Yeah, the only thing we had. And he goes, We have one. Not kidding. I was like, Are you serious? He goes, Yeah, like I live in my parents' old house and they just left it. We had it from like the 80s, and it's bouncy, a long spring, just and so I called my brother-in-law and a bunch of guys. I'm like, guys, I need help getting a trampoline. So we went and got a rectangular trampoline and shot it. There, there's a video of it online of how we shot it, and it's so fun. Yeah, I'm just like just people just flying, and then we put a sheet on it because it was such a dirty old trampoline, you know, and they had white angel costumes on.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:12

I'm gonna use this story like as a microcosm for like how the whole thing happened, right? I shot all the angels, but I was like, I need a landscape. Luckily, I live in Arizona where the topography isn't that far off of the Holy Land. And there was this cool place that I like to go shoot, and I brought a tripod, and my buddy let me use my camera, it was fine, but he's like his was higher res. He goes, Here, dude, take my camera. And so I put his camera on a tripod and I'm skipping up this like big rocks, like the side of this cliff, my little son following me, and all of a sudden, pop the the camera falls off of my tripod. No, like decouples, it's tumbling down the hill. I hear glass and I go. I said words that you shouldn't say when you're like going to shoot angels with your seven-year-old.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

He's like also warranted, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:01

Like so much for the spiritual experience of this thing. Um, but anyway, so the next morning I called my buddy. I'm like, um, can I come over? I was like, dude, I dropped your camera down a cliff. We my son and I went down and found it, and luckily his care his camera got banged up the body, but it was all right. Just needed like a replacement part. The lens was my lens, and it had shattered. It was a big L like fat lens, too. Um but that's all right. He goes, but tell me what you're doing. And he was a pilot, he was an aerial photographer.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_06 14:32

That's why he had the high-res stuff. I'm like, I'm doing this thing, I don't even know what it is. It's a I just want to shoot a bunch of scenes about the life of Jesus. He goes, dude, let me help you scout it. So he started like flying around the state and finding spots for me. Wow. And like, so cool. So later that around that same time, I had registered for this workshop with Greg Gorman, who's one of my favorite photographers. And it was in Mendocino, California. So we drove up to Mendocino. We used my father-in-law's motorhome, and there was this guy there who was one of the preeminent retouchers. He retouched the thriller album.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_06 15:09

And he retouched Sharon Stone for Basic Instinct.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 15:12

He goes, he goes, Tell me about your work. I'm like, well, I'm kind of working on this project right now, in addition to my portrait stuff. And he goes, I'd love to look at it. So this guy retouched my angels.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 15:23

So I stumbled into my first cool image, like mistake after mistake after mistake. Here's the final image. See.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

Yeah, final image. Oh, wow. Isn't that fun? And then when you think that all these angels were jumping on trampolines to get that shot, and then they were all composited together.

SPEAKER_06 15:41

By the thriller album guy.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

By the thriller album. How did you how did you find the angels? I mean, did you cast for dancers? I mean, that's the one. That's my little sister.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

Yeah, they're all dancers. That's my little sister. That's one of my employees. That was a dude that was in the play. That was a client's daughter. That was my sister's friend. Um, that was my trainer.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

Wow, that's so cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:02

And the other place I've got like my plumber, my electrician, my brother-in-law, my mom, you know, like anybody that was willing to support you in this cause. A girl that I had a crush on's mom in high school. Um, like all these different people, just regular people, right? And that bothered me for about I don't know, a decade. I was like, what if I got more interesting people or whatever? But I was like, no way, man.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

No.

SPEAKER_06 16:25

The real people, this is how oblivious I was. A couple of my angels had their nails painted.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:31

And so I was catching flack for that online. Like, angels wouldn't paint their nails. I'm like, well, angels wouldn't be jumping on my trampoline. Like, the idea is that there is like divinity in all of us, and there is humanity in all of us. And so if I've got this guy depicting Peter, who's actually like a personal injury lawyer, which it in the real case was, um, but also like a good friend, there could maybe couldn't be anything more perfect than that.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 16:57

And so I've really embraced the humanism in my work, and that came later in life. Like I ran away from it at first, and I would try to think of some theological reason why I left the nail paint. Really, it's just that I'm not a stickler for detail.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Right.

SPEAKER_06 17:12

This project became like all I thought about. Yeah, it consumed you, and it consumed me, and it consumed me with thinking about Jesus in a very human way. Like, how would he move? How would he act? Like, what would walk in the water really look like? You know, what would the red resurrected Jesus like? How would he move? How would he, you know?

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:30

And luckily, the the man that portrayed Jesus was also the guy from the Easter pageant. So he had thought through it way more than me.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:36

As a like a stage actor. But then I had to take him out and shoot him in like close range on a camera, and that's way different than the stage.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:44

And it was really like it was really holy to me to like think that much about Jesus, and it completely changed who I was.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

What was missing for you when it came to depictions of Jesus in art?

SPEAKER_06 17:55

Um, I don't know that I had ever put my finger on that I wanted like a more modern depiction of Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 18:01

Because I had cool little paintings of Jesus in my house. You know, it's a good little Christian family.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

But apparently there was something missing.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Right.

SPEAKER_06 18:07

And and I didn't know that that I would kick off a genre.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:11

Like because which you did. The genre didn't exist.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:15

So maybe I was missing something more visceral than a lot of painters could do. Because I mean, dude, Michelangelo, that guy was visceral.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:21

You know, Rembrandt's paying of of of Peter being crucified upside down, that was visceral. But I guess just reality was missing for me.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:32

And not that this is real. And so my art is just as idealized as any classical painter in terms of like what Jesus would look like. And I don't pretend like that this is an authentic Jesus. Yeah. But to people it's something that can inspire people to think about Jesus, and that's all I want.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Yeah. Do you think it was more personal for you though? Like to was it fulfilling something in you to have him portrayed in a certain way? Like, did you need him humanized?

SPEAKER_06 18:58

Yeah, maybe so. Maybe so. Like all the all the philosophers and good theologians, they're like, you know, sadly we make God in our image.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:08

And I'm just happy that I made a Jesus I agree with.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:13

Again, not that I think that it's perfect or that it's even a fair depiction of Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Right.

SPEAKER_06 19:18

But the things that he was doing and the ways he was acting, there's some stuff, like some itches that I needed to scratch. Yeah. Like the crucifixion or like Jesus being whipped. Things that were just like tough physically that I hadn't seen addressed in Christian art. But I I didn't, again, I wasn't trying to make a genre. And I was I I suppose I was trying to make a statement, but I didn't realize that till I was done. So I'm not sure what was missing for me exactly.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Do you feel that fulfilled right now, though?

SPEAKER_06 19:47

Yes. I always feel it until I don't. And then I told my wife, I'm like, I feel pregnant. And she knows what that means. I'm like, I not that I know what it's like to be pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Right, right. It's a metaphor.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

It's a metaphor. There's something like stirring, there's like life in me. And this happens now, like every decade, where I'm just like, I gotta go create. And so I went and did one in 2019. I was supposed to shoot in Israel, had it already roll. Um, because this one actually had a budget. Like, you know, I was like, oh I can do this now. But then we got coveted out like three weeks in advance. And I had a different, I had a different Jesus. I'll show you. That guy.

unknown 20:25

Right?

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:26

He was my second Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:28

Um, he's a he's a musician. Um, I don't really ever use their real names. And that's my mom, actually.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 20:33

Um she made it.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Yeah, you made it.

SPEAKER_06 20:35

Water into wine was that one, and it was 2018, so it was 12 years after I'd shot my original Reflections of Christ. He was like a more ethnic depiction of Jesus. But I did, I needed something more approachable. If I was gonna critique my first art, it's that I just used my neighbors. And for the most part, I lived in a little white suburb of Mesa, Arizona, and that was just the people around me. I was like, hey man, want to be in a picture tomorrow? Don't shave. That's how it went. It's not like it was casting, but for this one, I actually cast and it was really fun because I could like throw a broader net that was more approachable. Yeah. Um, some things that I loved in that one. We went down and shot it in Texas instead of Israel.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

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SPEAKER_06 22:08

A little bit cheaper.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Yeah. So I want to talk about the walking on water image because it's one of your defining pieces. Is it one of your first ones?

SPEAKER_06 22:17

No. Okay. I mean, it was from the first group that I shot. We took another trip down to Mexico. I shot this in Mexico. Um, this I keep pointing at it. This in Mexico.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

We'll point it out here. For those that are watching, for those that'll be amazing. Walking on water.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

And again, I was like, we went down there and I'm like, we need to shoot walking on water. I had like this epiphany. I saw it in my head what I wanted.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:38

Because we were in a recording studio making an album for this, produced by producer named Jason Barney, who's awesome. And my father-in-law was he's a composer. And you should have seen when I pitched them this project from the musical perspective. I'm like, I'm doing a photographic depiction of Jesus. And they're like, they're like, This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. But you're my son-in-law, you're married to my daughter, so this is awkward. But the the album charted.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Oh wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

So I got a creative produce that Jason was the actual producer. Um, but anyway, I was sitting there listening to these guys in the studio one day, and it was like, holy. And so I had brought in some of the art that I made, and we would use that in the studio to kind of like inform what we wanted to record. And then they record something, and I listen in the recording, and I would be like inspired by their recording to go shoot something else. And so I had this moment where I was like, I want to go shoot Jesus fucking in water. I want to shoot Jesus and Peter, like over fish on the beach, you know, all this stuff. But I didn't have a plan on how to execute it. And so we went to Rocky Point, Mexico, where a friend of a friend had a house on the beach we could stay at. And when we got there, I'm like, okay, how are we gonna make Jesus walk on water? And um he's like, Well, I have a bunch of bricks, like that works, and so honestly, there's like yeah, there's like 10 bricks on water, and I'm like, okay, Robert, I just want you to walk on water, like walk on these bricks, and it was like, whoa, you know, like stuff, and I heard, I mean, you did it with you did it with crates. I heard you talk about it. I did it like with uh a pallet, yeah, a pallet, yeah, which would have been way better. I was like, pallet, all right, harder to slip off a pallet, yeah, and a little bit more longevity to walk on, yeah, a little more to walk on. I mean, he had to try to see them in the water, yeah. You know, and there were things that like bothered me at first. Like, if you look at my early some of my early walking on water stuff, I had a guy photoshop out a lot of the the water that was hitting his field. I'm like, well, that's not perfect, yeah. But the more it wore on me, the more I was like, Jesus was perfect, but it didn't mean stuff didn't happen to him, right? He still got beat up and spit on and splashed by waves, yeah. And so I went back to the old water stuff, yeah. And now we have Jesus with a wet robe. So I go back, I revisit these images every few years. And I'm in the middle of doing that with an artist from South Africa right now. I'm like, I want to revisit all my stuff and just rework it and um with like a more mature approach to life.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

Well, you do you remember what I told you about this image, what I liked about it?

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Oh, geez, now you're testing me.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

Yeah, I am.

SPEAKER_06 25:03

Yeah, but why don't you remind me? I want to see if you remember.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

I remember because I still see it. Okay, so Mark and I go to the same church. We go to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and he was giving a talk um one day and sharing all his photography. And I went up afterward to go talk to him, and I was staring at this image that he had taken a photograph of. And you know, you can look at it for composition and color and everything like that in the story that it's telling. But the thing that stuck out to me was the sun flare. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 25:35

I was about to say that before as you started talking. I didn't want to interrupt you. I did remember.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

Yeah. And the reason why it's important to me is because a sun flare like that only comes from a lens. And a lens is modern, a camera is modern. And so to have something so unreachable, something that was so historical, a personage is that was so uh historical to be captured by a photograph makes him so tangible to have to right now. You know, it's like he is there, he is walking on water, he is, you know, out on the lake right now, you know? And it made him very real to me. And so I love that you left that lens flare in there because it made him more attainable to me. I love a good lens flare. Yeah, me too. I love it. So great.

SPEAKER_06 26:21

Interesting though, like I did, and I think I may have told you this when you told me that. There was a version of this that the lens flare was taken out. You didn't tell me that. I went and put it back around the same time as I put the splashes back. It was like a theology decision for me. Yeah, it was like Jesus is perfect because of what's internal, right? Not what happened to him.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Right.

SPEAKER_06 26:40

And so that, and I finally stopped feeling ashamed that it wasn't a painting.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:45

It's a new medium.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:46

And I finally just like owned this because we got a lot of criticism. We got a lot of people being like, oh, that's so irreverent.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Right. Or disrespectful or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:56

What if that's what the sculptors were saying about the painters? Every new art form is gonna seem irreverent.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, yeah. But you do it with respect, and I love it.

SPEAKER_06 27:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

So I know that your art has impacted a lot of people and it's hanging in so many homes now. Can you share a testimony with us that you've heard of somebody that was touched by your work?

SPEAKER_06 27:14

One of my favorite moments. We had this exhibit that traveled around for a while, and like different churches would call and be like, Hey, can I use it? Or like, right, yeah. And I had a guy that would drag it out there and set it up. I think they just they paid for the travel. I think they paid like$200 to like maintain the exhibit. So it wasn't like a it was just like a voluntary thing for churches. And we set it up and tons of people came. And this was in um around Keller, Texas, and no one knows who I am. So it's kind of cool. I can just like float through there until they see the documentary that was made of it, and then I become more visible. But there's this lady standing there in front of this depiction of the woman who was taken in adultery. Can I bracket this real quick and say, I have the biggest hangup with the Bible? This is gonna fly. I went to Vanderbilt, I went to Vanderbilt for a master's program in theology, the divinity school. Yeah, and everybody there has a hang up with the Bible. This is mine. I didn't know I could have a hang up with the Bible until I heard all of them hanging up with the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:11

I hate how women are called in the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:15

And how this woman is known as the woman taken in adultery.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

Drives me nuts, right? But that's the only thing we know her by. We don't have a name for this woman. Yeah. And same thing. Like all these women, like only a couple of them have names. They usually just have a have a red letter.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:31

You know, and a scarlet letter. Anyway, so it's the depiction of that woman and the men who are ready to like nail her with stones, and she just is sitting there, it's like drawing. And this woman came up just talking to me, and I was like, Hey, what's your favorite one? And she kind of like tears up a little bit. She walks me over, and we just camp in front of that picture. And I was like, Talk to me. Like, that's a unique pick. And she goes on to tell me, she goes, I have kids at home. I'm single, and my job doesn't necessarily like lend itself to a Christian lifestyle. Um, she was a stripper, and she goes, I don't know what to do. I'm sitting there like looking at this woman, I was like, Man, you're so hurting.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:11

I just sat there like crying with her and hoping that she could realize that like Jesus was talking to her. When he's drawing that line in the sand, he's saying, Leave her the hell alone.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:23

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:25

I mean, lots of moments like that. Other ones, like a little more lighthearted. A woman spent like$2,000 on a canvas and calls me just in a panic one morning. She goes, My grandkids had one of those sticky hands. And a red sticky hand, and she had the white, like white on white high-key, black and white.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

And he goes, Oh no.

SPEAKER_06 29:48

And it's got like red goo on it. She's freaking out. She called me, and I happened to be sitting next to my piano. And we moved to Nashville. My parents came over to our house. They lived next door to us, and we had their old piano in our house. And it was this beautiful, like Baldwin piano that we got when I was like seven years old. And like every good Mormon, I had to take piano lessons. And then my parents would yell at me to practice. And one day my mom was getting mad at me to practice. Yeah. It's like going to the piano. And I'm getting back to the art, right? Go into the piano, and I was like, playing my stupid song. And I lean and I'm seven years old. I have big bucky beaver, like teeth.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:31

And I lean on the piano and I start going for a fact. I'm grinding on the piano with my teeth.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 30:39

And my mom comes in and she sees these teeth marks on this brand new piano.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:44

And she goes, Oh, your dad's gonna be so mad. And I was like, Oh crap.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:52

Sure enough, my dad came home and he he's a young dad. I was seven. He had to be in his 20s. He's like, he was mad. Fired up in a way that 20-year-old dads get fired, 20-something-year-old dads get fired up. Like it takes a lot to get me going now that I'm an old dad. But in the 20s, I get fired up, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was him and forgiven. I get it now. Yeah. Right. So fast forward 35 years, and that piano's sitting in our house, and they come over, we're getting ready to move to Nashville, and they walk over to our house and they're kind of teary-eyed. My parents basically go, What are you gonna do with that piano? I go, Yeah, do you want me to help move this over to your house? They're like, No, we want to give it to you. And I was like, and my dad was kind of like emotional, right? And I was too. I was like, Wow, like this is so cool. I suck at piano, but so do all my sisters, and so maybe I suck the least. Um, but I have a daughter that's a musician, whatever, like, and it was in our house, and they gave him the piano, and my dad yeah left, and my mom's sitting there, she goes, I gotta tell you a story. A few months ago, or a couple of years ago, um, we wanted to put a player piano on this, and so the guy came over and he sticks the like player piano because none of us ever learned how to play it.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 32:00

And he looked at it and he goes, You know what? This piano's kind of old. Like, I can refinish this and make it just brand new for you guys. And my dad's like, Awesome. And the guy's like writing up a bid, and my dad's over there looking at, and my mom goes, He walked up to the piano, was running his fingers over it, and he saw your little teeth marks. He like put his finger on and he kind of gets choked up and he goes, And second thought, that's not refinish the piano. And so I was sitting by that piano when this collector called about the sticky hand on her expensive art.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:29

And I go, ma'am, I'm happy to send you a new one. Like, I'll get it at cost, we'll get it like really cheap for you. I said, But let me run this scenario by you. At some point, you're gonna be thrilled that your little grandbaby was looking at Jesus and interested enough to smack it with a red sticky. And um, she goes, you know what? She goes, You're right.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

And it completely like I love that so much.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

And it changed, and so it it changed my perspective on art at that point.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:01

Because now people are like, Where should I put this where the kids can't touch it? I'm like, those fingerprints, yeah, I I get it, the canvas is expensive. Those fingerprints are gonna be more sacred to you than the art at some point. Let your babies touch it. Yeah, let your uh adult friends touch it, especially that one with Jesus and his hand.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

And his hand with the marks in his hands.

SPEAKER_06 33:21

If you're spying on people, they will they'll they'll go touch it when nobody's looking. Yeah, and I have a glass covered one that was in my exhibit and it had fingerprints all over it.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

I love that.

SPEAKER_06 33:30

And the first five time I saw it, I called my framework. I'm like, dude, we gotta get rid of these fingerprints. No, and then yeah, like and the fingerprints kept reappearing, and and it took me like years to realize that like people are connecting with your art, yeah. Like, touch it, get it dirty, stick a fingerprint on it. Yeah, and so that was another like favorite story of art in the home. None of these are clean cut. I had a teenager punched a hole in it one time. A friend from church called and she goes, Um, my friend just texted me this because she found out you're here. She wonders what to do. And there's like a walking on water canvas, single mom, angry teenage son, yeah, like was mad at something and punched a hole in Jesus. Save it.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Yeah. Sometimes we sometimes we get mad, sometimes we yell at God. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:17

And sometimes we throw punches, yeah. And just absorb that blow. Jesus did. He doesn't care. Or he does care, actually.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah. But it's the metaphor of it all that makes it so beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 34:28

Yeah, it's like abuse these things, please. In fact, I think I might actually make a post about that when I go. Thank you. Now that we're talking about it, thank you, Liz.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

That really puts things into perspective for me because I've got a four-year-old, you know, and I'm just thinking about all the things in my house that have that are not sacred when you have boys. Yeah, but it's yeah, it just kind of changing my perspective. My my new car and the stickers and the fingerprints all over the windows like just leave it. Yeah, just leave it.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

I have scratches on my tailgate of my car because it's from my son loading his dirt bike in the back of my car, and I'm like, that's I love it. Yeah, one day it's gonna look back and miss it.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Yep. Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 35:06

Have you heard Walker Hayes' song Lee Low's Stars?

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_06 35:10

I cry every time I listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Singer?

SPEAKER_06 35:13

Singer.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 35:14

You know Walker Hayes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah. Michael Farron's worked with him before. Mike's buddies with him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:19

But Walker Hayes has a song about when he was first well, he was not first married. He had kids at home, and he's sitting there in the Costco parking lot because he was stalking, he was trying to be a songwriter, stalking Costco shelves. It was the graveyard shift.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:33

And he's laying there early before his graveyard shift, and he's staring at the holes in their ceiling, right? And he saw them as holes. But one time he was sitting there with his daughter and like light was pouring through them, and she goes, Look there, they're stars. It was so cool. It's called Leela Stars, one of the coolest songs ever.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

I'm gonna listen to it.

SPEAKER_06 35:52

It's a deep cut. Yeah, it sounds like those are the best. It was well before the Applebee's song. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Now he's got a big Barn dou. Yeah, now he's got a barn. I love that he's got a trampoline in there and a basketball court.

SPEAKER_06 36:07

Yeah, it's wild. I like what a fun life. What a good dad he is. It's so fun to watch. But yeah, that's one of my all-time favorite songs because of that same concept of that's kids do damage to our lives. Like anyway.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

They help you see.

SPEAKER_06 36:21

Yeah, they help us see.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, how has Reflections of Christ strengthened your testimony and changed you in ways that you never expected?

SPEAKER_06 36:30

For a while after it came out and it went viral, which 2007 viral was email chains and blogs.

SPEAKER_05 36:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 36:38

And maybe early Facebook, right? Eight was Facebook kicked in. And I had a big exhibit in town that had over a hundred thousand visitors. Part of the exhibit was something that this documentary that had my face. I'm like narrating the thing that my friend, a really good filmmaker, did. And so I would be like out to eat, trying to eat a burrito, and someone would come up to me like crying about Jesus. So I'm like, burrito down.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:06

And it went from just being like a normal guy, photographer, whatever, to everybody who talks to you wants to talk about Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 37:14

And wants your interpretation of like, what were you really trying to do with this picture? And I'm like, well, dude, I was just trying to get him not to fall off the bricks. Like, I think it means. I'm like, whoa. I'm these layers of meaning, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:28

And it really softened me. Like, I was at a bowling alley one time, out of town, and and this is like two years out. It was when Reflections of Christ was the bestseller, it was a best-selling book.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:38

The regional bestseller in the West. It it did really well. The movie itself sold like 75,000 copies. So it was around.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 37:45

On DVD. And we went bowling. You know how they share the lines and you're like sharing a table?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:51

Well, we went to go to our table, these people had all their crap on our table. And I was like, and I was so bothered, right? I was so bothered. For some reason, it just like struck me. And I was like, who's the idiots that put their stuff all over my table?

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:05

Like, and I was like indignant, really, like inappropriately mad and disproportionately mad. And I was about to go find the person. I was like looking for the adult in charge of all the kids that put their crap on my table. And I see it, and I'm and before I can walk up to her, she walks up to me. She goes, Are you Mark Mabry? I was like, Yes, ma'am. I was like, you know. She goes, She goes, I'm sorry, sorry to bother you. Like, it's a crazy time for my family. Um, they're all in town right now because my husband, their grandpa, just died. And we all just a couple of nights ago spent all night watching your movie with him in the hospital room right before he died. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 38:49

And he goes, she goes, I can't believe I'm meeting you right now. And I'm like, Yeah. And so I was so thankful that I didn't talk first.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

And like ruin that moment she had like with her husband.

SPEAKER_04 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:01

Because who's the jerk? You know? And so having this and all the stuff I've had to write, like hundreds of thousands of words and whatever to like support it and just whatever answer for it, it has made me like it's pinned me to a standard that I don't live by any stretch of the imagination well. But but when I fail to have faith, when I fail to like be good for the right reason because I love Jesus, like that's the best of me is I love Jesus, so I'm gonna be good. Under that is I can't be a jerk because these people think I love Jesus. You know what I'm saying? So it's a safety net for me to like remind me like how I should be acting.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:41

And that's what it's done in my life. I mean, even in my own home, my kids walk into my office and and I've got like big pictures of Jesus behind me because that's my art. That's my it's my office, right? Yeah, it's my gallery. And if I'm if I'm sitting there yelling at them and like treating them badly, which I have done, yeah, yeah, there's a quick moment of, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:02

Like these kids think I'm such a hypocrite. Or they think that the whole Jesus thing is nothing but a job.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:09

And so it really like, and in a in a culture here where like every big Christian musician lives in Franklin, Tennessee, or right around it.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:17

Like right square. I mean, the dude right up the hill from like right next door to me was an AR guy for curb. You know, like everybody's a Christian artist, and we all struggle with the same thing of like, I'm a jerk in real life. Yeah, but for some reason I can do this and trying to live up to it.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

Yeah. And that's the thing. I think it's just a constant reminder of who we should be. But without it, I mean you're something else, right?

SPEAKER_06 40:41

Yeah, and without it, I'm trying to live up to a fashion shoot that I did.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:46

Like seriously, like no, it's true. You end up living up or down to your work.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

Yeah, it's true. Um, so you're also a writer.

SPEAKER_06 40:53

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_04 40:53

Yes, you are. Uh, when did you start writing? And what does it give you that maybe your other creative outlets don't?

SPEAKER_06 41:00

I was a writer first. Okay. Like I always could love, even in high school, I was like a closet poet. Okay. I was a football player.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:09

You know, but I love to write music and I love to write poems. I had like a book of poetry that my friends had they outed me, or had I outed myself, it would have been game over from my career.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:23

In high school. But I I loved to write. And so in like 2000, so I dropped out of ASU. Yeah. Remember, we started with that.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:30

When I published Reflections of Christ, and I had a little bit of, for the first time in my life, a tiny bit of financial freedom. Not freedom. I just could pay my bills.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:41

Without like working hourly.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:43

I I was like, I think I should go back. Someday I am we're gonna wish I finished that degree. So I went back, I'm like, definitely not going back into poly sci. So I finished in Russian and I met a professor, like a Romanian lady who's really cool. She's like, You should get a master's. I was like, master's? Like people in my family don't even get college degrees.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:01

And so she talks me into a master's, and I went to this master's program, um, a liberal arts master's at ASU called creative nonfiction writing. And it wasn't, it wasn't like an MFA, it wasn't fine art, but it was like focused on creative nonfiction. And it taught me how to write, like technically how to write. And I I love, I love writing.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

And do you write with your daughter Ava?

SPEAKER_06 42:22

I write songs with her. Yeah. Um, I co-wrote a song of hers called Last Name.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

I love that song. And I love that she like even thought to write something like that. Because so many women I know have thought that. The song is a if you guys haven't listened to it, Ava Live Mabry, it's called Last Name, but it's about giving your maiden name up to get someone else's and how she misses her last name and because that's who she is. She's not even married yet. I mean, but I love that song.

SPEAKER_06 42:54

Thank you. And so she comes, she'll usually come with a concept that's almost done, and it's just like rough. And I'm not like a good songwriter from scratch, but I know what she's trying to say because I know who she is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

I love that.

SPEAKER_06 43:06

And so I'll be like, okay, this is a little clunky. Did you mean to say this? And we're we'll rework these things together. I helped her write Roman Empire. That one's great, too. Um, and and I helped her write one called Emilia Amelia. It's about Amelia Bedelia. Yeah. She just um put it on Instagram, it's gonna be on her new album. But it's about the Did you read those books when you're little, Amelia Bedelia? Uh-uh. Turns out they're written in the 80s, or originally, I think in the 60s, re revamped in the 80s. But Amelia Bedelia kind of has Asperger's. Just this really sweet girl. They'll be like, draw the curtains. And so she'll instead of like pulling open the curtains, she'll sit down and draw the curtains, you know, like super literal and everything.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:47

And and Ava came with this idea about Amelia being like a tragic figure that's really just beautiful and underappreciated. And it's the sweetest little song. Helped her write that. But yeah, I love I love writing. Like if I could. Hit reset. I wish I would have taken up songwriting. Like it'd be fun.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

You can still do it.

SPEAKER_06 44:05

Maybe I should.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

Maybe you should. Number two late. I mean, you've got you've got connections.

SPEAKER_06 44:09

I do have connections, but they're all really good writers. They're like, dude, no. Stay in your lane. If she gets a Grammy, then I'll have my name on it. Then I'll be a Grammy work. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Take that.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Okay, your family obviously plays a huge role in what you do. So how have they shaped things behind the scenes?

SPEAKER_06 44:33

I love my family.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

You have the best family.

SPEAKER_06 44:37

I love them so much.

SPEAKER_04 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:39

Honestly, my wife is incredible.

SPEAKER_04 44:42

She's incredible. She's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 44:44

And just by talking a little bit with you, I know it's tender because sometimes relationships go bad. And and nothing breaks my heart more than that. Um, Tara Tara's awesome, and she's put up with a lot of me switching careers. And she's been really cool about it. Um how's my family shaped me? Good grief. Everything I write now is for my kids. If I write or I make a new piece of art, it is for my kids. So you can tell what's going on in my life based on the art that I'm putting out. Because I want to make a point. I want to like hang something in my office, sit my little boy down, and say, look, here's one we're working on right now, actually. It's Jesus in the wilderness. I give it 40 days of temptation.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:28

It's just Jesus like wandering through a desert. At the very beginning of my art, I just wanted to like I didn't have a target. It was just like everything was out into the universe. Here's how I feel about Jesus, which is cool. And is I needed to do that, but now it's very refined. I'll make art that is focused on one child for one situation. Like I have a kid right now in finance, and my oldest son, and he's so sweet. He calls me every day. And he's he's out west and he has a baby. I have a my I'm a grandpa.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

I know, the cutest.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

I love her. She's my sweetheart granddaughter, but I talked to my son, and we made these these two images of Peter like sitting in the boat and Jesus on the beach. So after Jesus was resurrected, and Peter was downtrodden because the last his last interaction with Jesus was denying him. And Peter's like sitting on the boat, he's like, I guess I'm gonna go fishing. He's back to fishing, and sitting there with his empty net and like six, I think there's six of the apostles are with him, named in the Bible, five or six. And Jesus goes from the beach, he's like, Hey, you guys caught anything? They didn't recognize him. And they're like, No, we've been out here all night, and we're coming in and we're ticked. And they're sitting there with the empty net in the water. And Jesus is like, Oh, simple, just throw it on the other side of the boat. And they're like and they're like, Whatever. As they're throwing it on the other side of the boat, Jesus right Peter recognizes. Oh my gosh, that's Jesus. So what does he do? Over here, they're getting the mother load, the biggest hole they've ever gotten a fish.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_06 46:54

The only thing Peter seems like he's ever wanted because he was a fisherman. Here's my I'm a millionaire. Look at all these fish. Yeah, but Peter jumps out of the boat and swims to Jesus. The mother load finally hit. And so my second image is all the rest of the guys pulling in the net, and Peter just like mid-swim toward Jesus. And so when I talk to my son, I'm like, dude, I get it. Right now, you're sitting in the boat with an empty net going, hey God, what do I do?

SPEAKER_05 47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:24

I said, You have to be willing. When he tells you what to do and it works, you have to be willing to leave it.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:30

Or else it owns you. And so that those are for my my older kids. And I'll probably, you know, if Ava hits, I'll be doing that one for Ava.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:39

Or there'll be a girl story that I'll figure that'll really resonate with her.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:44

Um, there's a lot more women's stories than the stuff I shot in 2019 as well. It's like woman, woman, because I was really Sherry Dew, the publisher of this, the publisher of my book.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

I love Sherry.

SPEAKER_06 47:54

She's awesome. Yeah. She's hard. I was sitting across from one like as a 20, whatever year old, and she's like running this multi-million dollar publisher. She leans in and she goes, I have one question mark. I was like, okay. And this is how she's trying to sign me.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:08

She goes, Where are all the women?

SPEAKER_03 48:09

And I was like, I was like, sorry, Sherry.

SPEAKER_06 48:14

And so everything I've done since then. And I said, I've got seven sisters. I'm the only boy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06 48:19

I have a daughter. I have a wife. Like, I should have been more sensitive to that. That's a major fail on my part.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Yeah. You rectified it.

SPEAKER_06 48:26

I rectified it. But a lot of the stories right there from the get-go of Jesus' ministry, it's just him and the guys. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I was dumb. I was that's what I was shooting. My brain was barely developed when I did this. I was 28.

SPEAKER_04 48:39

Excuses.

SPEAKER_06 48:40

I was 28, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:42

But Sheridan's the kind of person that's going to call you out. Oh, she she called me out that time.

SPEAKER_06 48:46

And then she killed it with the book. So I was like, thank you, Sherry. Nice for not holding that against me.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

Yeah. Okay. So where can people find you if they want to find your art? If they want to see your writings, if they want to see your movie, like where can they find all your best place is probably Instagram. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 49:02

So just go to Reflections of Christ on Instagram. Um, and then a little more behind the scenes. Like, honestly, I have my It's Mabry as my personal one.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:10

It has a lot of like spillover traffic from Reflections of Christ. So there's like a lot of followers on it, but really seriously, it's just me talking about like, hey, I did this. Yeah with my kids. It's not like it's not like I'm putting out good content there.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:22

It's like for grandma across the country.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:26

But but mostly um Reflections of Christ is where to find it. And I and I write, and I've gotten to where I was writing long form, but now I write in less than 2200 characters. Okay. Little essays. And a lot of those are on Reflections of Christ, Instagram. Or you can go to my website, but it's all on Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

Okay. Go check it out. His work is phenomenal. Yes. Purchase his art. I have it is mine. Thank you. I have that one canvas in my room.

SPEAKER_06 49:51

You were the first person to get that.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

I sure was. I knew it was coming. And so I was just like, as soon as your launch day came, I was like, that's mine. It was awesome. Whoa.

SPEAKER_06 49:58

Thanks, Elisa.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

I should bring it over and have you sign it.

SPEAKER_06 50:01

I would love that. Yeah. I'd be happy to.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

We are going to close out with some rapid fire questions.

SPEAKER_06 50:06

Sweet. You know what? I'm going to promise rapid fire answers.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

We'll see.

SPEAKER_06 50:12

Yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

All right. Favorite movie quote.

SPEAKER_06 50:15

Hip hop anonymous? Name that movie.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

That's Big Daddy?

SPEAKER_06 50:21

It's Big Daddy.

SPEAKER_04 50:22

That's what it is. I was like, it was an Adam Sandler. Hip hop. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_06 50:26

Every time somebody says hip hop, my wife and I are like, hep hop anonymous together. Or anything from school rock.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Yes. Oh, yeah, that one's great too. Song you could sing over and over at the top of your lungs. Oh gosh. Besides Ava.

SPEAKER_06 50:42

Okay. I love Kaylor Swift.

SPEAKER_04 50:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 50:47

I love her song The One from the folklore album.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 50:53

I'm doing good. I'm on some new shit. Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 50:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:56

I love that song.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

That's hilarious. Six Swifty. That's what we can expect. And that could also answer the next question, which is guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_06 51:06

Guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Admitted to all of it. Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_06 51:09

I had a I had a dream on Christmas that Taylor Swift came on to me and I woke up and my wife was in the gym. And I'm like, honey, I'm so sorry. I go, I resisted. No, guilty, guilty pleasure. Late night ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Big ice cream. Yeah. What's your flavor? Yeah, what's your favorite?

SPEAKER_06 51:28

Oh, anything we have, but I'll dump. I'll dump nuts in it. I'll dump all sorts of stuff. What about favorite brand?

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Are you like a bluebell person?

SPEAKER_06 51:37

Oh, I love bluebell because I was lived in Texas for a while.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

Oh, yeah. So you're a bluebell.

SPEAKER_06 51:41

Even if Tillamook is better tasting, I go with Bluebell and I'm like, what is it? It's the only brand.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

Yeah. Yeah. I'm West Coast, so I'm Tillamook.

SPEAKER_06 51:49

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, but Tillamook is better tasting, probably. Yeah. But Bluebell is God's ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

All right. What's your dream shoot location?

SPEAKER_06 52:01

Depends. If I'm doing this, I'd love to go shoot in Israel. I'd love to shoot the actual Sea of Galilee.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

Yeah, did you ever get to shoot in Israel?

SPEAKER_06 52:08

No, because I got it all done. And I was like, okay. I I could go back. I might just go back and not shoot any recreations and just go like shoot stuff. And I've been there. I've gone and I've shot Sea of Galilee, but I wasn't like thinking how I want. Now I know how I'd like to shoot it.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Okay. That's a bucket list for me. Oh my god. Israel's so bad.

SPEAKER_06 52:27

It's amazing. Just rad. Super calm place. Just go chill. Especially northern Israel, right by Lebanon. Yeah. Let's go chill there.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on here with us and sharing the technical, the testimony, like everything behind reflections of Christ. Because I know every time I look at my piece, I I ponder and I'm grateful that you have followed that calling that you received because it's touching so many lives.

SPEAKER_06 52:52

So thank you. You guys are so sweet. Thanks for letting me ramble with really long answers.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

I love it though. It makes our it makes our job a little bit easier, though, when you can just chat off the cuff. Just chat.

SPEAKER_06 53:04

Thank you. It was the Celsius in the car.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

You only had one, right? Yeah, it was only one.

SPEAKER_06 53:11

I just finished on my way.

SPEAKER_04 53:13

It's just kicking in.

SPEAKER_06 53:14

Thank you both. This is thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_04 53:18

Thank you for the podcast. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

We can't wait to have Ava on too.

SPEAKER_06 53:22

Bring her on.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

She's gonna be great. We're gonna have you close out for us. So you're just gonna look in the camera and say, my shutter's full.

SPEAKER_06 53:28

My shutter's full. Uncle Eddie, I should go bald with him and reveal my bald head.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Y'all make sure that you like, follow, subscribe, hit all of our buttons. Thank you so much, Mark, for being part of this podcast. See ya.