Episode 12 - Breast Cancer during Pregnancy - part 2 - 'Grief and Gratitude can Co-Exist'

In this episode of Diaries of a Breast Cancer Baddie, we get brutally honest about what happens after the big moments — after chemo, after surgery, after radiation… when the adrenaline wears off and reality hits.

Because no one really talks about this part.

We dive into the physical and emotional aftermath of breast cancer treatment — from mastectomies and reconstruction choices, to living flat, navigating recovery with young kids, and the mental load that comes with it all.

We talk about:

The difference between lumpectomy, mastectomy, and reconstruction decisions

The reality of recovery (and why it can be harder than treatment itself)

Lymphoedema, long-term side effects, and “when does this actually end?”

The identity shift — body image, femininity, and finding your confidence again

Mum guilt, relationships, and needing a village just to survive it all

And woven through all of it is something we don’t say enough:

 You can feel grateful to be alive… and still grieve everything you’ve lost.

This is the messy middle of survivorship — where strength isn’t pretty, healing isn’t linear, and there’s no neat finish line.

If you’re in it, coming out of it, or supporting someone through it — this episode will make you feel seen.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

You're listening to Diaries of a Breast Cancer Baddie. I'm Lou, your host and fellow breast cancer daddy. Today's episode is titled Grief and Gratitude Can Coexist and is part three of our current four-part series on pregnancy and breast cancer. And you've also had an 18-month-old at home to look after as well.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

As we know, chemo was not a friend for me.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

So you had a very different experience.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yes. That's the pits. I take surgery and radio any day. Oh, radio is a walk in the park.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I feel like yeah, the stage I'm at now where treatment is way harder than chemo was.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

But you know what? What I will say about that too is that there does come a point where the adrenaline wears off. And you just go, how much more of this can I take? Yes. And I I feel like I'm there too because I I went through 16 rounds of chemo. Like four rounds of the red freaking devil. It's the hardest shit on the market. Back sole, wearing the cold cap, the cold things on the hands of it. And yes, I had a few moments where I was like, oh, I'm over this. But never once was I like so over it that I was ready to throw in the towel. Now on something as basic as oral chemo, I'm so yes, I want to take it because I don't want the cancer to come back, but I'm so over it. Like blisters on my hands and feet and like going to the room.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I think you're right, the steam does fall out of you though. You're like, oh god, I've been doing this for long enough now. Yeah, like you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

It's all accumulative as well. It's not like one thing finishes and you know it's out of your system. Like radiation, it takes a full year to take effect. I remember at the time of having radiation as an example, I was like, is this a placebo effect? Because I got no redness, I got no skin peeling, no Jess had a pretty bad like.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Well, I couldn't put blistering under my arm. Did you? Yeah. Yeah, you were like red warm under there. Yeah, it came and it was so weird because it came from the inside out.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

It was like min little red dot, and then it grew, grew, grew, and then it blistered on the outside and under my arms.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Was that after you finished radio? I haven't seen finished the whole thing. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

We were doing radio fine, and then that came out, and then obviously I was really discoloured. Like it's lightning now, but like a brown square.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Oh my goodness. I wonder if that's as well because you had no, was this did you get radio after you had the mystec? Correct. Okay, so you had no tissue there.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Correct. So it's like right on the clock.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

They actually say, and I was speaking to I was speaking to some sort of specialist about this recently. If you have a mastectomy and then you have radiation, the skin reaction, I was talking to the radiation therapist about this, the you're more likely to have a worse risk like skin reaction because they put something over it, there's some kind of cream or something they call a bolus because you've lost all that tissue, so it's less protective or something against you. She was saying, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

So she was everyone had that, and then I saw other people like photos of the colours. No, I think that's and I was like, Where's the one?

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah. Was talking to this radiation therapist about it, and you are more likely to have a skin reaction like that if you've had a if you've had a mastectomy. Because I was like, I had loved mectomine, I basically had nothing. And then I had a friend who had the massectomy and spaces put in, and she had to wear like a pad because she was oozing, like she was oozing, you know, out of her like an open wound, like a fourth degree burn almost. And again, physiologically, everyone's body responds really differently. So I was like, this is horseshit. And I had an extra hot dose of radiation because it was all on my nose, you can't remove. And I was like, this is ridiculous. This has clearly done nothing. Now you sort of get worried. You do, and months on. Yeah, yeah. Why is it so easy? Placebo side effects. I was like, Yeah, I was like, what if it's not working? Placebo effects, and now 14 months on, I have gotten back into weight training, resistance training, and radiation shrinks your pec muscle down, and obviously you lose all your elasticity. I did a massive get upper body workout and I had to go and see Amanda to unravel me because I was like, I literally, and if I sleep on my breast now, I'm in agony.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

No, it's not sleeping on the right side. I'm like, Tristan did say that to me too. Is that your is your right, boob? You're yeah, sleeping on the right side. Sometimes I'm like, oh that's fucking.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

I just can't say flat. See how it's like right straight on.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Oh, that would be painful.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Just there's nothing. I was like concave.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

So and on on being flat and absolutely fucking gorgeous. Absolutely dream both.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Both of you at the wedding were vacant.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Absolute and dream both. Not me. Both of you, absolute dream both. Shrubbing stubbing for a flat chest is very well. You make it look very glamorous. I want to talk about both about we've talked about you know the absolute fucking shitstorm of being diagnosed with breast cancer whilst pregnant. It's a hugely scary moment in your life. We've talked about what our treatments looked like ongoing for both of you. I want to talk about what your journey and choices were in terms of lumpectomy, messectomy, have you had reconstructions? What are your plans? Some have done part of the work, some have work in progress. I'll start with Eloise. What's your journey? And I really don't like that word, and I don't know why, but what was your um surgical? Yeah, yeah, it is a fucking journey. It really is. There really is no other word for it.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

And I really it is. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

It's not a spring. It's a marathon. Yes, and it's gonna be a lifelong one. What was your um recommendation, choices, options, what you did in terms of surgeries and whatnot?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

So um my cancer was in my right breast and my right lymph nodes, and I had a lumpectomy after I finished uh chemo. I had clear margins and in the breast, and I had um uh one lymph node, still have residual disease. They took out two. Oh fucker. Um yeah, and then but everyone was really happy with the response, but you know, it was kind of like what do we do now? I knew that if a lymph node came back positive, I'd I'd need a full clearance or I'd want a full clearance. And so went back to see Kylie and you know, spoke to Kylie, spoke to Tristan. I had like I had a my main tumour in my right breast, and then I had two other tiny two or three or four millimeter tumours. Um and I remember I think both of them had a complete response to the smaller ones, like there was nothing left. But after the lumpectomy, my um my breast had been so kind of pulled apart that it there was like a divot, yeah, yeah. A part missing of your boob. Because they took out the fibroedinoma at the same time. So um, yeah, and because I was getting the full clearance, I was just like, you know, can we talk about taking them both off? And I think that because I'd had the three tumour sites, they were supportive of at least one, but I had dense breast tissue, pretty sure, in the left as well. So there was never really a conversation with me about just doing the lumpectomy. The lumpectomy was really just to see what my response to chemo was. Um the conversation was more do you want the mastectomy now or do you want it in 10 years' time? And for me, I just felt like I was already riding the wave and I just wanted to get it done. You're not going in and doing the lymph node clearance, and then I'm coming back in five years to get them both off. And I'm I had huge like boobs, you know, I had like size E boobs, and wow, feel I had bumpy breasts as well. And I was just like, I just feel that from an anxiety perspective, I don't want to be feeling in the shower, feeling that I'm feeling that it's yeah, especially if you've had one off, like and for for reasons you'd had half of it taken out anyway, I would totally go with the the double.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Like you want to be like a lot of a lot of surgeons won't. I've and I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I I've heard that, and that's why I say there was never a conversation with me about not doing that. It was very much like that's what we're doing, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

It's just a matter of when do you want to just break? I think a lot of that also comes down to we are having treatment at one of the best hospitals in quite literally. And they really take into account what your quality of like what your quality of life is gonna be like your age, your experience.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

I've had friends that have had treatment through the public system, and they will be like, no, you just told me the one breast off. And you're paying top dollar for not only their medical expertise but for their psychological and emotional support, and they will do best by holistic approach, holistic approach, which is why Menzies was like, have the fucking Coke Zero, babe, drink the fucking Coke, it's not gonna give you cancer again, even though someone said it would. Yeah, so they it's a very holistic approach.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

The next question for me was well, do I have the double mastectomy and have um expanders? And yeah, like what does that kind of look like? I ended up saying to myself, Well, I don't want to go in and have two massive surgeries, which is basically like having them both off, put expanders in, and then having another surgery to get your, you know, your actual breasts put in. So I elected to have a double mastectomy followed by an immediate reconstruction, which is something that's called a DEP, which is where they use your stomach fat to recreate your breasts. Um, and I'm stoked. Don't get me wrong, it was really hard. Such a hard surgery to do with two little kids once we've got the flirt.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

That recovery with children alone, yeah. With the whole, like when you have kids who want to be picked up in held and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

You can't, I'll be honest, you can't go to the toilet. Yeah, you can't wipe your own thumb, you can't shower, you can't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

And how do you do that and have two children? Like, let alone children as young as you did.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

And that's where it does come up, like it's quite hard with children who don't understand that you can't pick them up. And it's not because you don't want to pick them up, it's because you can't. Little Dolens don't. So I yeah, that and then I got the flu, and that was another wobble. I was just miserable. I was just like I remember talking to you after you just had your surgery, and you were like, This is hell.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, but you came out of that really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

I mean, look, I'll be honest, that was the lowest point of the whole cancer journey for me because I and my husband bore the brunt of that a lot. I was miserable. I I I don't want to throw around the word depressed because I don't know if that's what that was for me. But every day was a struggle. From the point of getting into bed to staying asleep to waking up to going to the toilet to getting myself a glass of water, to sitting there at five o'clock when all of your house is like you know, if you've got kids, everyone's hungry, everyone's tired, everyone needs a bath, everyone needs to go to bed. Which is so I'm like the third child. I'm the third child. I can't do anything for myself, and I have to just sit there and watch this chaos unfold. I then, yeah, the flu and like the thought of coughing and sneezing like would send me. Anyway, I'm very happy with my choice now. Would I do it again a hundred percent? Um, I love my new size B2C boobs. Um, they are perky, they um they're great. I love like the whole new like wardrobe that it's kind of opened up for me. I feel really good in my own body. Of course. I, you know, I yeah, I just it was hard, but like the reality.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Well, and like it's worth it in the end.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah, it's worth it. And you know what? One of the messages I want to get across to people on this podcast is like the amount of, I'm sure you guys are the same, the amount of people that say to you, you are so strong, like I wouldn't be able to do that. You are all so much stronger than we are all so much stronger than you give ourselves credit for. If you were in our position, you would do the same thing. Yeah, you can do it. It is hard, but you don't really have a choice. Yeah, and you can do it. You can do it. We are all capable of hard things, and we can freaking do it. Women are amazing.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Fucking incredible. Women are incredible. You were having a really hard time mentally. Was that sort of is that because you felt like you were so restricted during your time of healing? Because how long you're in the hospital? You were in the hospital for like a week, two.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Nine days because I didn't want to go home with drains.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Oh god, no, and with young little kids, no.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

I think that's that I would say that's where the heart, the heart's probably talking about the blessing about having children during a cancer diagnosis. I think the difficulty is on your hard days, you don't just get to like go home and sit on the couch and read. It's like no, you have to be a mum always. And even if you even if your husband is doing or your partner is doing all of the things for you, the mum guilt that you're not doing it. And so recovery is so hard because you're like, I just want a goddamn sick day. But like even if they if someone does it for you, you're basically being like, Oh, you should get off the couch and like clean or play with it. And sometimes bottles. Yeah, what are the damn bottles?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Sometimes it's better to be like after my life back to me, like a drama queen, I was like, I want to stay in hospital for as long as possible because I do have little kids at home and they come in and visit me. But I feel like if I was home, I'd want to be doing things, and they want you to do things and you can't do it. Correct, and you probably feel less guilty. And my mother-in-law bless her, I flew my mother-in-law over. She lives in Scotland the night before my surgery as a surprise to help my husband. Um, even though my parents live 200 metres down the road in that, but it was they she lived here and I think she was really helpful for this. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

It's a lot of work. We need to give my parents and people with cancer some serious praise because my mum and dad were with me every single day, and they need a break too. You know, like it is a lot to see your kid go through something that they just should not be going through. And you know, my dad came to every single chemo session with me. Oh blessed, strapped on, you know, the cold freaking boots and gloves and sat there with me because all of my other support people were looking after kids or you know, something else.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Like the village is pretty fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Like what what would you we do without the village? I know it does, and it takes it takes a village to raise kids and have cancer. That's much. All at the one time. All at the one time. So you were in hospital, you did your nine days. When did you come out of the mental fog after your surgery?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Oh look, I reckon Christmas Day. I was I had my surgery the 4th of November, and Christmas Day I was having a champagne saying to my family, like, Wow, thank you so much. I don't think I was able to lift up my kids. I still couldn't fully stand up straight, um, and I definitely didn't have full range of my arm, which I still um, but at Christmas Day I was having a guilt-free champagne. Good on you. Just being like, okay, you know, there's light at the end of the time. Just coming out, you know. Um, so yeah, I reckon I, you know, I didn't feel bad all the time, but I do think about that time of my life, and I'm like, yeah, there was a grey cloud over that time. Doesn't mean I'm not glad that I did it. I'm really glad. I'm so freaking proud of myself. You should be. But yeah, I reckon Christmas Day was when I was like, you know, thinking back to what Tristan said about it being a hard year. And I was like, yeah, I did it. You did it. Like now it's in the review mirror.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah, it's like made the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, yeah. But then I started zoodering and I was like, dear god.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

And that's uh part of another day. Yeah. We've talked about lymphedema. I talk about lymphedema a lot and how much of a pain in the ass it is. How has your journey with lymphedema been?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

When did it so I don't have lymphedema? The technology is amazing these days in that a lot of people actually don't get lymphedema because they can intercept it before it becomes a thing. At the wellness center, getting on the LDEX, they just noticed that the fluid in my arm was increasing a little bit. Not a huge amount. I think it got up to like six or something, and six point five is when they like to intervene and put on a sleeve. So yeah, I wore a sleeve every day, and you know, I was lucky because the sleeve worked. Some people the sleeve doesn't work. Yeah, um, the sleeve worked, I came all the way back down to baseline. Amazing. Um, and my physio was like, okay, cool, let's try a day on, day off. Then they start the weaning process, right? Let's see how long you've got to wear this for. Yeah. Um, day on and day off actually worked in the beginning, and I got really lazy over Christmas, and I was like, I'll just put it on a few hours here, a few hours there. Also, when you finished chemo, I wanted to go swimming. As soon as I got cleared to go swimming, because I'd done the whole cold capping thing, I was like, no water is touching my hair. And as soon as I got clearance from my surgeon about swimming, I was like, let's go, I'm gonna swim. I want to not think about wearing a sleeve at the beach. Anyway, I came back and it had gone back up again. Again, mine has never gone super high, but it just creeping up. Got up to 2.5 again or something, and it was like, you know, let's go back on, but let's try sort of one day on, one day off again. Let's not go back to square one. Yeah, um, day on, day off wasn't working. Ugh. So it sort of stayed. Um, and now I'm in a position where I've got to do two days on, one day off, which I'm okay with except for these hot flushes which I'm having right now. Yeah, it's it again, it that was like a breaking point for me a little bit when I was like, how long do I have to wear this sleeve for?

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Where is the finish line for this? What is the plan? And I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. When I do eventually go back to work, I don't want to wear a sleep. I don't want to relive this whole journey every time I'm getting a coffee. Oh, people do fucking ask, what's that for? I just say surgery.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

So funny you said like the finish line, because with everything else, like chemo, there's a finish day. It's a finish day.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Just don't take the shirt off, don't just take it off. Take it off.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

And so, but there isn't really a finish date to cancer in cancer journey because there's always it's not all many appointments, there's something, you know. At what point are you at the point where you're like, oh, I've gotten nothing? Never.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

So every time I'm exercising, I'm like, I'm doing this because it's part of my treatment.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah, it's part of the prescription. It's to exercise they could put it in a bottle, they would. Do you want a fan? No, it'll go. Just honestly, no one's it's like a burn and then your scalp burns. Yeah, your boobs.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

You know, I was actually talking to my husband about because I'm swimming a bit, doing laps, and I'm I've never been one of those people who got naked in the change room and was like, Woo, you know, pre-pack. But now there's little kids in the change room, and I said to my husband, Kit, like, I feel a bit weird about everyone looking at their mums being like, oh, what's wrong with their boobs? And Kit was like, Oh, stop that. Honestly. Like, be proud of it, get them out. And I'm kind of just like, yeah, is someone gonna ask me about my new boobs that look amazing?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, you're like, no. Did you kind of like bring up the courage to go swimming without the top on? Because obviously. Oh my god, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

You know, if you want to thirls that run marathons without your tops on, they're fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I would probably do that more than go to the beach. Do that. Like it would be for a reason. I feel like going to the beach, people would be like, and because my hair's obviously really short. People would be like, is that a boy? Is that a girl? It's like, oh my, you know. Oh my god. I think I I think mentally I would have to just get over that.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Has anyone asked you? Like, have you has anyone stopped you and or pointed at you or anything?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

No, no, but I also just feel like I live my life in my bubble. I don't think I really love people around and what they're doing because I don't care too much. But I'm sure, especially because like I just wear like mum clothes, like big baggy clothes on like the weekends with my short hair and I've got no booze. I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Wardrobe is amazing. I know things on Instagram. Like I'm at home with like my hair up in my hot flush, like god damn it, I need to get it.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I'm sure having short hair, I think. I just wanted I'm pretty sure close to buzzing it off and doing a platinum again because I love not having to do this all the time, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

I saved all my hair to cut it all off because I'm literally like it was tied up all the time.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

It's amazing, it's amazing. Now over to you on that front about your amazing body, body. So you have had a double mastectomy. Tell me about your your surgical journey and what your options were versus what you advised versus what you did.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah, so a single mastectomy was always on the cards for me with from Adam from the get-go when I got the diagnosis. Obviously, I was like, just take my tits now. And he was like, not yet, but I will, I promise. I love that. So single mastectomy was always, always on the cards because I have inflammatory breast pants, it's very aggressive, and because it's not a tumour, I can't have a lumpectomy. So the whole titty hat to go, nipple and all. Adam was amazing. He was like, I'm gonna put it out there because it's your choice. We're gonna do the single mastectomy. Should you wish to have a bilateral mastectomy, it is your choice. And he was like, it is something that can be done now or done later. And I love him for that because I have soon come to realise that not all surgeons will offer that. Because when I got my genetic testing, my genetic testing came back clear. And because inflammatory breast cancer is different to standard breast cancer, my chance of reoccurrence on the other side of my breast is as high as anyone else who's not had cancer, slightly higher. So he was like, You have no increased risk of getting breast cancer on the other side. I actually have a higher risk of it coming back somewhere else in my body.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

So, medically speaking, there is absolutely no reason why I would need to take that breast, but it is a decision that you have to make. And I always knew from the get go I'm having a bilateral mastectomy because your standard risk of breast cancer is one in seven, and then when you've already had cancer, it's higher than that. So I was like, God no, imagine if I got breast cancer on the other side, just coincidentally, yeah, and I was like, I could have prevented this. So I always knew that off the bat. But when I in my initial stages with Adam in my consults, I learned that because I have inflammatory breast cancer, there's not a lot of research, but it's incredibly aggressive, especially for the first two to three years, your chance of recurrence is very high. I was not able to get immediate reconstruction because they're not going to put anything in there, it's just gonna give a chance for it to grow back. So I found out that I would have to be a mastectomy to what they call an aesthetic flat closure, so like completely flat, if not slightly concave. Like to the bone, to the bone, literally to the bone, and basically I would not be able to get recon until after I'd passed my reoccurrence milestone, so two to three years. And so when I found out I was gonna have to be flat for that long, I was like, there's no way I'm gonna uni boob it for two to three years. Mentally, for me, I didn't want to wear prosthetics, I didn't want to be uneven. It's gonna be a reminder every day that I've had cancer. So I was like, yep, take them both. Adam probed me with a lot of great questions, especially on the breath, um, on the breastfeeding front, because I wasn't able to breastfeed with George because I had to have all the testing. I took the literally, it's amazing, the two little pills that stopped you. Yeah, yeah, amazing. Yeah, um, it to me was never a problem. I did not go through any mental problem with that. I was always of the opinion of if breast breastfeeding works, great, if it doesn't, that's fine because I've had a lot of friends who've struggled with breastfeeding. Um, and formula feeding for us had so many advantages because Damien got to bond immediately with George, feeding him, our family got to bond. It just took a lot of the pressure off because anyone could feed him. Um, so I just I never had any of that guilt, which was obviously really lucky for me. So when I told Adam I was gonna have the bilateral, he was like, you won't be able to breastfeed. And I was like, that's fine. I'm comfortable with that decision. I understand that I'm forgoing that, should I be able to have a baby in the future? So yeah, I was like, let's do it right off the bat, one and done. I just want to be completely flat. So we went in and had the surgery, and it was pretty quick. He put me the last of the day. Love him. Adam's just the best. He was like, I know you're gonna have to be flat for so long, so I'm gonna try and like mirror this up as perfectly as I can. And my scars are like pretty much bang on symmetrical when I when I went for my checkout and was like, yeah, I'm pretty proud of my work.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Um so yeah, I've just gotta rock this now for like the first bit. So and did they take the lymph nodes at the same time? Yes, I took all of the lymph nodes on my left side, so I think I had 16 or 18 lymph nodes removed. Um, and then obviously all of that and all of my breast tissue went up for testing. I did not have a complete pathological response, but I did have a very, very good response. So I think they found very small micro deposits of cancer left in the blood vessels, and all of my lymph nodes had had, I think, a complete response. Um, so it was a really strong result to chemo, but because it wasn't a perfect result, then I had to do 14 rounds of TEM1 just to clear up because her too is so aggressive. Like if there's any little loose cells, we don't want them growing anywhere. I feel like my recovery in that sense was probably easier because I was completely flat. I didn't have to get used to having like I just want my guide expanded, or I wasn't going in with the DF at the same time and recovering from massive surgery in two areas. That was quite good. I think for me, it was the mental game of not having breasts, and so they're a huge part of your femininity. And I don't worry too much, like I, you know, with my husband, like it doesn't bother me. I walk around pretty much shirtless most of the time at home. It's getting dressed, you've you'll you'll soon figure out that most clothes for women are obviously designed for breasts, dart lines and pockets and things like that. Shopping online is impossible for me. Um, so I think it was like, how do I find my style organic throughout most of my wardrobe to start building my wardrobe again with a flat body? Um, and then in two to three days, if I want to have recon, I have to have a DF because I'm completely flat. There's no room for expanders. But I'm I'm on the fence, I don't really know what I'm gonna do yet, and we'll probably cross that bridge when we come to it.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

You got the rest of your life about the decision, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Yeah, and like if we, you know, we obviously hope we'll have a baby. I don't we don't know if there's any fertility issues yet, but I won't be able to, I'd have to have the DF after I have a baby. So first priority is obviously like getting to that reoccurrence milestone, then it's hopefully have another baby, and then we'll like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

You know what? You might decide that your body's been through enough trauma.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah, and I might be like used to the balance, I think. And proud of it. You might you might just want to rock it and own it. I'm pretty good with it. Like I think, you know, it is what it is. I'm not like ashamed of my scars or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

And you look incredible. Like physically, emotionally, and mentally you I mean, I don't know what's going on with you mentally, but like physically and emotionally you uh you both are incredible. Like I've known Jess longer, and yeah, you just I love the attitude that you just don't give a fuck what other people think.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Side story. I actually slid into Jess's DMs and I have never done that before. Stop never, I've never done it before. About you because it's popular until I got cancelled.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

I know that other people slid into your DMs. I document a lot on TikTok. Yeah, a lot of people through TikTok and Instagram slide into my DMs connecting with me.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Like I and then and then we were like, oh my god, we've got the same oncologist. I know.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I mean my mother-in-law Louisa's mom through like the medical yeah, which is hilarious, just like small.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

I know, crazy, crazy. But I have never slid into anyone's DMs or had a blind lunch date with anyone until Jess, and loved that. It was great, and we just chatted the whole time, bought our babies and yeah, I loved that.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

I slid into Jess's DMs too, because Sydney Breast Cancer Foundation shared your host at some point, and I'd know the know the team there, and I was like, oh my god, you've just been diagnosed. Like, let me tell you all about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

That was great.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

But we also have a connection besides the whole cancer thing. You've got a holiday home down South Coast. Yes. You've got a holiday home down Well, yeah, down in Kalala. Oh which is just north of Benderong-ish area. You've got a holiday house at Mullingwalk. Yeah. We've got a holiday house at Magnona. Oh god. Christmas is gonna be Yeah. When you say Mulling Walk, I was like in. Guys, see there. I know. See you at the not at the Marlin, but we'll see you at the I I don't think I the Marlins for us. We'll see you at the Milton Hotel, which is really bougie. Yeah, or cupets or something.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah, although it's cupets, I'm probably wrong.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

It's cupids. See you down there for a while.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yeah, that's when do you guys go down?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Do you do Chrissy?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yeah, we had Christmas there. It doesn't look like me there.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah, love me, some now fresh though. Oh yeah, we'll see what I'm like.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

It's near the hospital. There you go. It's very near the hospital. And the Maccas are now as well. We always stop for our McFlurries at the Maccas. Oh, you know, your widow. Right? Or as CZ.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

I'm doing Engadine on the way down.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Oh yeah, Ingadine Maccas is pretty cool. But now there's also um is it Pasdo?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Should I have a good Maccas for a drink?

SPEAKER_01 29:09

All I'm doing TikTok at the moment is like some new Maccas drink, this like brown sugar. I've seen that. Maybe I need to try it.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Looks disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Sounds disgusting. Pop through drive-through.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

I should do it. I should do it. Did either of you ladies join a mother's group or were you two deep in the throes of this shitstorm of yes?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

I had chemo, what was it? I had chemo one day, the next day I was the next one I was deathly sick, and then by the third one, I was like, what's I've missed it.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

They would it would have just been there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

And also like this mother's group was I gonna join like one for my actu my baby's actual age.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah, true. Just yeah, too hard basket. Too hard basket.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

And I to be honest with you, I didn't want to be like I don't want to be the sick one in the group. Yeah, like just to everyone kind of like talking to you and looking moon-faced and just being like whole thing, like she's just a baby shit. All these people talking about the fact that their life was hard because their baby didn't sleep, which I know is really hard, but if that was I always said if that was my only problem to complain about, which now it kind of is, I'm yeah, that is a good thing, you know. 100%. So I just I didn't really have a lot to bring.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

I think until you've had a health problem, any health problem, you know, people are like, you can have problems. Yes, until you've had a health problem in any kind of cancer or any kind of health issue, you realize that nothing else in life matters as much as your health.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

100%.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

You know, it's hard. We were saying before, you know, without friends, I want them to sometimes they're like, Oh, I don't want to share our burden my burdens with you because you've got it worse. And I'm like, no, I just share away. I want to hate you. Ostracize me. And everything's relative, 100%. There's people we we we talk about how blessed we are constantly because I'm like, there's so many people worse off than us. But I do think the mind shift of going through this and motherhood at the same time, you you have those blessings. Like, you know, I remember when George we I would get up to do the night feeds and I would just sit there with so much. I'll get emotional talking about remember these nights. Like, I would just look at him in my arms, he's a little tiny baby, and I'd be feeding him, and I would think, like, I have no idea if I'll live to see him grow up, but like God, for right now, it's just so worth it. Like, it's just so beautiful that I get to be here with him and have this moment, and my life is complete because I got to have him. So it really helped push me through, but he also helped me get through all of my treatment because at no point could I sit there and dwell on the badness because I just loved each moment with him. 100%. It's the they're the best therapy without even trying to be. I can't wait till he's older, like to be able to share with him because he's so you know, he's only 12 months now. Eventually, I'll be able to tell him what we went through and be like, you were the reason we got through it.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah, and he's gonna be like, My mom is this amazing powerhouse.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Absolute badass who cancer. Yeah, that was quite literally my next question. What has motherhood motherhood taught you throughout cancer? You both talked about it so much, which is the one of the and it's a yeah, what does it taught you? I mean, what has motherhood through cancer taught you, actually?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

I was just gonna say, like, we are capable of anything. Yeah, you can be you can you can do anything, you can have you can be pregnant and have cancer at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Like that's wild.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Absolutely and still lifted onto the story, my friends. And like, you know what? If you are in the thick of chemo, if you have a primary baby, if you are going through anything similar to what the three of us have been through, it will take time, but you will get there and you will be on the other side of it, and you will look back and you will you will be blown away by how strong and capable and amazing you are. And you can be going through something really hard and also be amazing at the same time. Absolutely. Gratitude and grief coexist.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

And I think people talk about motherhood a lot on its own, about how like motherhood breaks you and then rebuilds you, and I definitely feel that. And I think cancer does the same thing. So I think to have both at the same time obviously just amplifies that. And it's like I would much, I would if I what we're saying, if you know, five years from now I get to the point and there's been no reoccurrence and I never had cancer again, and it's like this bleep that happened, I would 100% take the merge of myself post-cancer, post-motherhood over having never had cancer, because I will forever have a better outlook on my life because of that.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

And you'll I feel like I'm a better person.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Definitely a better mum, a better person, a better wife. Like my marriage has never been stronger. I know that's not the case for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

I know that you know, I know, I've heard some absolute risk.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

One in four marriages end over cancer, which is really scary, especially for a woman. So, like, you know, thank god I always say to Jamie, thank god I didn't marry a loser.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Like, you know, the just one other thing I want to say as well is I hope people listening to this don't actually think that you need to be strong the whole time. I think it's really important to give yourself a bit of goddamn grace because I'd like I'd be lying if I said I didn't cry a lot. Oh I'd be lying if I said I didn't find it really freaking hard and I didn't complain a lot because I did. And I think that it is also possible to be two things at once, which is finding it really hard, being really overwhelmed, and break down completely and also get through it. Absolutely. So coexist. It's you don't have to be strong all the time. And actually, I read this really great book about um being between two kingdoms, which is all about being between a version of you which had cancer and a healthy person, right? And she was like, I actually really hated the narrative that like we're gonna kick cancer's butt and be like really strong and absolutely eat this thing. She's like, I just hated it because I found it really hard, found it so hard. And I think that it doesn't make you any less strong or any less amazing if that's how you find it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Because there's gotta be some vulnerability to it. You talk about toxic positive. I like toxic positivity, and like the people who she talked about our village, the people who show up for you. I've been blessed with amazing friends and family and the people who have shown up for me. There's the people who turn up and just blip in and blip out, and they go, Right, right, you've got this, yeah, you're amazing, you're so strong. And it's like, you don't know anything about me and my journey because you don't ask. And then you've got the people behind the scenes who are really in the thick of it for you.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

And they're quietly there just working things in.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

They're not toxic positivity, but they get it or they try to get it, you know, they try to ask the questions and be curious and all of that, and they understand that some days I just want to cry and just say that this is too hard, and then some days I want to be like, hell yeah, I've got this, and both of those things are fine.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Thanks for listening to Diaries of a Breast Cancer Batty. Tune in next week for our fourth and final part of this series on pregnancy and breast cancer. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Diaries of a Breast Cancer Battie.