Emotional Intimacy Starts Here

We set the tone for Relation-Smith by naming emotional intimacy as the core of a strong relationship and showing how trust, self-awareness, and kind truth turn everyday talk into real connection. A small New Year conflict about time and expectations becomes a play-by-play on triggers, repair, and choosing safety over blame.

• defining emotional intimacy as trust and safe space
• emotional self-awareness and vulnerability as learned skills
• personal work before and inside partnership
• recognizing baggage, insecurities, and triggers
• moving from logistics to deeper conversations
• choosing kind truth instead of brutal honesty
• a real-time example of tension, guilt, and repair
• using curiosity to slow conflict and reconnect
• applying these skills to friendships and work

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to RelationsMith. I'm Jamie Smith here with my wife Stacy. This podcast is a space where we can share our relationship and the conversations we are having. Sometimes about hard things, sometimes about lighter ones, always with the goal of staying connected. So thanks for being here. And let's get into it. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Hey, I'm good. Good. Excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah, awesome. So it is January 1. So happy New Year, 2026.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

Happy New Year, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

And we had a good time. We had some family over, we had some friends. We had a bonfire. We watched the music note drop. And we are ready to roll with 2026, right?

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

All right. So what do we want to talk about today?

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Well, since this is our first episode, I thought we would just kind of set the tone of who we are and what this is at a high level. Not getting into much detail today, but kind of leaving that for a treat for later.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

So Jamie and I have been together for five years and really it just keeps getting better. And we believe it's because we've built some real emotional intimacy in our relationship. And we noticed that as a common denominator, people who feel that they are in a solidly good relationship, they have real emotional intimacy. Versus people who don't, you know, we're who are in relationships that are just struggling and nobody can really, you know, put their finger on why there isn't an obvious reason is because they're lacking emotional intimacy for some reason. And you know, we've both been there.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah.

Defining Trust And Safe Space

SPEAKER_04 2:05

We were both married previously for many years, and those relationships ended. And I think for me anyway, I know I can totally pin it on a lack of emotional intimacy.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So when you say emotional intimacy, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_04 2:25

Well, I don't have the dictionary version of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

It doesn't even matter about the dictionary. Yeah, but what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_04 2:33

To me, it means that we really we really trust each other. We trust each other to hold each other's hold space for each other to have our back no matter what and to stay by our side even when we're working through some things.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

And I know for instance, I trust completely that you that I'm your number one priority.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

100%.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

And I trust completely that you love me and you always have my best interest at heart. And I think that is because we have that true emotional intimacy.

Self-Awareness And Vulnerability

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Right. And Yeah, I think for me, when I hear emotional intimacy, I also think of emotional self-awareness. So I think to myself, or or even go one step further, like emotional maturity, in essence, uh it's something you have to develop. It's not something that is just granted to you. A lot of times it's it's gifted to us through a lot of trials, a lot of things that we go through, and with the outlook of not always thinking the other person's wrong or something's wrong with the other person. It's about an inward reflection on how I feel and what I really want. And in order to get what I want emotionally, I have to be, as you were saying earlier, vulnerable to be able to trust somebody with that safe space.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

And I just want to remind everybody this is a real conversation. This is not scripted. So I just want us to understand this are things that Stacy and I literally talk about all the time. Like just I think in our mornings, sometimes our Saturday and Sunday mornings, she gets up, she does a devotion, and then I'll walk in the room when she's done, and all of a sudden we're having this conversation, and three hours later we're done. And we're like, man, this is stuff we should be recording. Yeah, that's true. Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

So I think for me, emotional intimacy is something that you and I have established, but it was it took some work to actually get there, right?

From Past Pain To Growth

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things that we'll definitely get into on a future podcast for sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Yeah. Because it's it's something that emotional intimacy that's something that it seems like that's what people are craving these days.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

And that's what they're searching for. That's what they're trying to figure out how to get that. The you know, making connections, finding that finding your person. All that at the core of it is finding someone you can be really be emotionally intimate with.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

And so, you know, we just you know, through our own experiences and what others have shared with us, that's seems to be what people crave. And so we're blessed to have that in our relationship and we want to share it. Yeah. And hope hope that it helps somebody some somebody out there.

Craving Deeper Connection

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah, we're not claiming to be experts, we're claiming to be people that have experienced it, the lack of their lack of, and now having, and not just having. I mean, we have a lot of of it with each other. Lord, I've shared things with her I've never shared with another human being. And the amazing part of it, and I think this is one of the things that for a man or for my personality type is it's hard to find that safe space to be able to say something and not feel judged. Because a lot of times when a man or someone of my personality speaks that truth and and it becomes that vulnerable, there's like, oh, well, then maybe you should do something different, or ooh, gross, or you're kind of weird, you know, or anything like that. And then all of a sudden, we just kind of shut down. And then we only share the what I would say is the watered down version of our thoughts. So if I've got a whole lot of thoughts in my head and I want to share it with you, if I feel at any moment that you're gonna judge it or you're gonna try to correct me on it or not allow me to express, you're gonna get the the the uh the G version of it instead of the R-rated version, right? You're gonna get the same story, but it's gonna be muddled down to something just very basic. And so what happens is all of that stuff gets stored down deep. And then there becomes a disconnect. You know, there's no, there's no like I really don't want to be around her right now because I'm feeling like I gotta be vulnerable and I'm not safe around her to be vulnerable. You know what I mean? Right. And I think that's the and that and that's the things that I've experienced in my past. And and I worked on, you know, I think both of us have similar experiences that when we got out of our previous marriage, we decided to work on ourselves, right? And for me, I, you know, I I just I just thought to myself, if I'm gonna be in another relationship, which that's something I truly desired, is to be in a relationship. I I wanted to be with someone that I could be myself completely and not feel judged in a way where I can't be myself or I'm having to put on a mask, right? Right. So what do you think it was for you? What I mean, what were some of the things you had to do to kind of work on?

Safe Space For Men To Share

SPEAKER_04 9:12

Oh yeah. I mean I would say the number one thing, and I hope I get to share more about this sometimes, is just being willing to to take a risk.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

And so I mean, we just wanna you know, we didn't automatically have emotional intimacy on day one. So it took some work.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

We all I know is I wanted to be intimate and it was getting me emotional.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

But we want to sh share how we got here and what we learned along the way. And some of that was personal work as you were just alluding to. Personal work that we did before we met.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Personal work that we did when we first met.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

We first started dating, personal work that we continue to do.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Mm-hmm. And this is not a try this once and it's it's done forever. It is something that is a practice constantly. Because why is that? We is because we have junk. I mean, we went into our previous marriages with junk. We went into all of our relationships, whether it be friends, family, or loved, or or you know, uh spouses or you know, boyfriend, girlfriends, blood, whatever. We bring baggage a lot. And I would say, I'm no statistician, but I would say 99% of the time, we bring that junk into the relationships, and that is I would say what causes a lot of riff.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

Yeah, a big source of disconnection. And and we're not here to say, okay, you gotta get rid of all your baggage before you get into a relationship. No, no. Absolutely not. Definitely not saying that. Nor did we do that.

Personal Work Before Partnership

SPEAKER_00 11:01

No. Uh but No, but you gotta be self-aware about it. Yeah. That I think that's the other thing is that you just gotta be very honest with yourself. You know, I I tell friends all the time when they talk about, man, I want a relationship like you and your wife have. And it's like, well, have you worked on yourself first? You know, have you come to have you looked in the mirror and said, I could be the problem. You know, I could, I, I can I have issues and I have to recognize those issues because if I don't, I'm more than likely going to bring these in, and this is what I'm gonna get offended by. This is what I'm gonna get triggered by. And so in order to see that, you need to recognize that first.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

And relationship, well, regardless of what type of relationship, is a two-way street, is a it's it's two people.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

It's not one-sided, you know, and that's one of the things her and I, you know, you and I brought into our relationship together is the fact that it is you and me. And if we do have issues, we're gonna work on it together. We're going to reflect on each other first to see, hey, did did this argument start because of something I'm not I haven't dealt with?

SPEAKER_04 12:20

Yeah. Don't give away all the don't give away everything on the first episode.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah. Well, it's yeah, uh uh, you know, I wanted to go Oh yeah, we're gonna get into it for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

So so so per s definitely personal work that we did and have done and will continue to do. But also work, you know, work we do together, as you just alluded to. And that's through the good times and the bad the hard times.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Right.

Baggage, Triggers, And Honesty

SPEAKER_04 12:51

Right. And that's uh communication. You know, that's that's an easy thing to say. You gotta communicate, but we're gonna definitely get into how we communicate. I think that's made a big difference. And space, you know, right. Giving each other space when we when when needed. And another big thing that has made a big difference, and we talk about this a lot, is just recognizing each other's getting familiar with each other's secure insecurities and triggers.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, that's big. To me, I think that was that was the aha moment in our relationship because it didn't agree. It didn't just aha me to uh with you, it aha'd me to every relationship I have ever had and continue to have through my future. It's like wow.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

It it's something that I and I know, and sorry if I give away too much because I these are things I'm excited about because these are the things I share with friends of mine, you know, is gosh, do you know that probably a majority of your your arguments are because one of you got offended by a a, you know, something, you know, what's the word? In a uh gosh, I just triggered. Insecurity is the word I was looking for. Yeah, and insecurity, right? And so all of a sudden, I'm offended. And how dare you? And all of a sudden you get in this heat moment.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Oh, the defenses go up so fast.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

But you get in this moment where you're just so defensive because you feel an attack coming, and then you realize, okay, this is where I'm talking about the moment is you take a deep breath, you look at the person and go, does she really feel that way about me? Does she really think that I'm this evil, you know, sinister person ready to destroy world as we know it? Or is was it just a question? Or was it just something that kind of got you all bent out of shape because something that happened from your past? It could be all the way from your childhood, you know, that happened, or your high school or middle school relationships, or anything.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

Right.

Conversations That Build Intimacy

SPEAKER_00 15:13

You know, something that affected you so hard, all of a sudden you are triggered. And then here's the worst part is I get all bent out of shape, and then you get mad because I got mad. And then all of a sudden we're both going, whoa. Yeah, that's the cycle, right? Right. That and it's this emotional cycle that just keeps growing and growing and it festers. But that was what the aha moment was. As I to we took a moment, we kind of you know, took a deep breath, and I think it was you that kind of challenged me and was like, what's really going on? And I was like, you know what's going on, you just offended me. No, no, no. Well, why did that offend you?

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Right. You know, I was like, Oh yeah, it takes someone to slow the train down. Yeah, ask.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

And one of us had to.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Yeah, get curious and ask.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

So I definitely, we will definitely talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah, yeah. That was to me, that was that was the aha moment. Right. And now I literally show that with friends all the time. Bro, reflect. You know, because whatever it is, if you got offended, it's probably an insecurity of yours.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

And then you alluded to this.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

I mean I allude to a lot of things, don't I?

Kind Truth Over Brutal Honesty

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Yeah. You do great segues. Great segues. Because what we've learned here, then we get to apply in other relationships and situations and other conversations with other people. And and so yeah, we're gonna spend plenty of time on here talking about our relationship and what we've the work we've done to to get where we are and have the amazing relationship that we have. But we're also gonna talk with other people at other stages of life and other relationship situations. We're also gonna talk about other topics that aren't necessarily quote unquote about relationships, but it's relative because of how the conversations are happening. Right. And so conversation is I would say probably the major theme of the vehicle of how to how to build this emotional intimacy and also have great friendships and conversations with people, even if you don't see eye to eye with them on everything.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Right. I mean, I know that we can say easily a lot of times is that couples that are having hard times or maybe are a little disconnected, or it's like, but we talk all the time. Okay, so what are you talking about? Are you talking about bills? Are you talking about the kids? Which is a lot of the times if you have kids, you're we're having conversations all the time about the kids. But that's not emotional intimacy, right? You're talking about the house, the things that need to be fixed up around the house, the car. You need to talk about what's going on at Jim's house, you know, class and and Martha and what you're doing with these different boy, I just spoke my age, didn't I? Those are old names. But you you you're taught you're having conversations, but they're not emotional, it's not emotional intimacy. Emotional intimacy is, hey hun, today I felt very offended by what my boss told me. And I don't know if it's him, I don't know if it's me, I don't know if it's just Mercury in retrograde, you know. I don't, I don't know what it is. And and she's able to go, well, tell me about it. And I'm like, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, well, it sounds kind of like, yeah, he probably couldn't, should, couldn't have came, shouldn't have came in and came in hot like that, but at the same time, is it not true? You know, and I'm like, yes, but you're right, he shouldn't have came in hot. Yes, but aren't you the peacemaker? And I'm like, yeah, I'm the peacemaker. You know, and so later on I go back and I'm like, okay. So then I go, and what's neat is I'm able to go back to work and have the real conversation because I felt I felt safe to be my vulnerable self with my wife and be able to accept what she was telling me and then go back into the situation and say, listen. You're right. This is something I should have done, but man, darn, dude, you came in hot, you know? And then he and then there's this opportunity for him to be like, or her, to be like, yep, you're right. And and I mean, that doesn't happen all the time. I mean, the other person has to be receptive to it. But for me, it means a lot for me to be able to talk to you about it, for you to be able to be honest and for me not to be offended if you go, you are a royal butt in that whole situation.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Like, you know. I don't think I would say that though. At least not till you were ready to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

No, no, you would let me sulk a little bit. But but that's a that's the thing, you know, is is is being able to have conversations, honest, loving, critical at times conversations. Now, I've heard some people say, well, I'm the type of person that's just brutally honest. And that's what people love about me is that I'm brutally honest. I guarantee you, no one says they love you for your brutal honesty, right? I know people like that. I know you know people like that. But the thing is, is that it's not brutal honesty, no, because there's no room for brutality when it comes to being honest. But loving, loving, that means kind. That means soft. That means when I'm saying something, there's a correction that might need to be done, but it needs to be brought with love. And you think you were talking about that earlier, is you know, giving me the space or me being ready to hear it, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

And I mean, over time we've gotten to know each other well enough where we have a better sense of that with each other.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

I don't know. Do we have time for maybe one little example?

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Sure. What were you thinking?

The Podcast Riff Story

SPEAKER_04 22:04

So it just ha happened. Yes, I always like to say uh I do like to share this. Uh not so long ago, my m was here visiting and she said, she looked at me, she said, Yo, do you guys ever argue? And uh I said, Oh yes, of course, mom, we do. But it it's very rare. And I believe that's because we have this emotional intimacy. But yesterday we had a little, a little riff hot hot top hot conversation. It was brief.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

And so I I think what so it was actually about recording the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah, and it's funny because she says, Hey, we should talk about that today, and I'm gonna talk about what? And she's like, about what happened yesterday. And I'm like, Did we resolve it? She said yes. And I said, Did I sleep? She goes, Yes. I said, then why would I remember it?

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Yeah. I mean, because this is resolved, it's it's done, it's over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

But go ahead, set the stage of the riff.

SPEAKER_04 23:03

So was we've been wanting to get this episode recorded. Uh, we've tried a couple of times and not liked how it turned out, and and we finally were in a good spot for what we wanted to do, and we were gonna we were off because well, he he was off of work because of the holidays. Yes. And I work from home, so I have flexibility. Right. And I was working and I said, let's I have a couple hours of work, let's do it when I'm done. So he went in and got it all set up. And then by the time I was done with work, he was thinking about this before she finishes a statement.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

This is all points of view.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

This is my perspective.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah, this is her perspective.

Guilt, Triggers, And Repair

SPEAKER_04 23:55

He was ready to get dinner and sit down and veg out for the evening, which is uh to we do that a lot in the evening. After work's done, we get dinner and we watch some on TV. So he was ready for that by the time I was done with work. So we did that, and then when we were uh done watching what we were we were watching, I looked at him, I said, I guess we're not doing the podcast today.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Well uh and he said Okay, first thing is my perspective. So earlier in the day, she said she wanted to do the podcast. I said, Absolutely, let's do it. We're talking earlier in the day, probably around noon, one o'clock. And so she goes, So I I do want to do that. I said, Okay, I'll get it all set up. I had to reset the computer, do some stuff, connect it. So I did that. I was heating the room up, making sure it was good and toasty for us. And so I got it ready. And so I went, did some Bebop stuff around the house. But before I did, she goes, but listen, I have two hours of solid work I gotta do. And I thought I threw solid in there, but this is what's going on in my head. I have two hours of work. Soon as I'm done with that, I'll be ready. And I said, Okay. So I was like, da da, beeboping around. It's about an hour and a half had went by, and I was like, okay, so all right, I guess I need to figure out what we're gonna do for dinner. It was probably just coming up on two hours, and I said, I'm gonna go get us some dinner. Okay. So I went and got us dinner, I came back, and she was just shutting down, or no, you had already shut down.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

I was shutting down.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

And so I thought to myself, well, it's already like five o'clock, four o'clock, five o'clock, or whatever. Um, it was obviously a little over two hours later, but you were already shutting down. And I just went ahead and shut everything down. And so I went downstairs, got it ready, and I said, Hey, you want to just watch this movie? Without a breath, she goes, sure. It's like, okay. So ate dinner, started watching the movie, movies over, and her little smart mouth said, Wow. Yeah, that well, that's how it came out. Well, I guess we're not doing the podcast today. And I looked over at her, I'm like, first of all, I'm gonna say something, but I don't want to make you mad when I say it. So just know that when I'm saying this, regardless, it's probably gonna upset you.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

Yeah. You literally said, You're I don't want you to, but you're probably gonna get offended.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

And immediately you saw it on my face. Immediately I was like, uh.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Here we go. She's putting the dukes up. So I said to her, I said, I know that you said you had two hours of solid work, but I guarantee you finished that work probably in an hour and a half and then played on the computer, like looking at emails and looking at different things and and doing stuff. And and so, you know, you were probably done like way earlier, but you decided to do those other things because you used every bit of that two hours that you had allocated up instead of getting it done sooner. Oh, that started the riff. She got offended. Oh, I my personal emails are important, and yours might not be because you have 12,000 unread emails, but and it was like this all-out attack on on how it's important to her, but to me, they're not important, and blah, blah, blah. So I had to come back with, no, that is my junk mail, and that is this, but this is not. And I do check my emails and I I take offense to that. And so that we were just back and forth. And then as I thought it was starting to get a little bit like settled down, she kind of riled it back up again. And so I'm like, what are we really arguing about here? So how do you think it ended?

SPEAKER_01 28:23

I think the whole conversation took about what, 20 minutes?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

20 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

Well the truth was that I was I had felt bad about I was already feeling bad about the previous day.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

I wanted to get to why you got so offended by it.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Because the previous day my dad had my dad had come to visit us and I said I need to work a little bit. Well, that little bit turned into a little bit more a bit, and I worked a better part of the day, and I felt really badly about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

Because I I knew I didn't really have to do everything I did that day, but I get sucked in. It sucks me in. So I was already feeling bad badly about it. And then he just like put the mirror up, and so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Well, and that and that was the thing that I had said. That's what I was waiting for to see if you would remember that. I said, You're really not mad at me. Yes, probably what I said was not good, but what you're really mad at is at the guilt you have from the day before.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Our son walked over and was like, What are you guys doing? But then I think that's what it was, is that she already had this built-up guilt.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Yeah.

Laughter, Resolution, And Wrap

SPEAKER_00 29:52

And then she wanted to have this podcast because we talked about it. And then when it seemed like we wasn't, she was already feeling guilty, and that's what kind of spun the whole thing. And then it was an all-out like defense mode when in fact it was just her upset with herself, and she wasn't really upset with me, even though she kind of took it out on me, and then I retaliated, but then it was like I kind of sat back and was like, I was a little upset with you because I felt like you poked at a spot you knew was sensitive. I poked a bear, I did, because I felt like I was being very zen. I felt like I was being very calm. The whole time you were having this discussion with me, and I was kind of smiling, and then it was like Until until you were like, I do read my emails. Oh, and then it just I was like, how are you gonna attack me? And then it was like, but we then that's when we kind of just took a deep breath. I looked over at her and I was like, what is this really about? You're you're guilt you you feel guilty about yesterday, and that's why we just had this argument.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Right. And then I mean, we have su we have a good enough, I mean, we have such a good relationship. And we both knew it really wasn't that big of a deal, so we didn't let it escalate.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

No.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

And then you're explaining to me something with your middle finger, and I lost it. And that kind of broke. I don't even remember. You remember that? No. You were like counting something and you were like, Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

So I was counting, I'm like, this with the index finger, and then this with the middle finger, and then I went back to the index finger and put it down, and so I was like shooting a bird. I'm like, and I kind of I said I stopped and I went back to the index finger, and she's like, Oh, what was that? And then I was like, I I meant I didn't mean to shoot you a bird. I mean, maybe I did, but but I didn't. I wasn't trying to.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Which I know, which I know. So that just kind of broke the tension.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, it totally broke the tension, and we we laughed and and then carried on.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Yeah, it was resolved at that point because we knew that we both have each other's best interests at heart.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

We both think the best of each other.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yep. So we just want to thank you so much for spending time with us today. If there's something from this conversation stay that stayed with you, we're glad and we're thankful. We'll be back soon with another conversation. But until then, take care and thanks for listening to RelationsMith.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Bye, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Bye.