Relation-Smith Podcast

Redefining Masculinity: Strength, Honesty, and Emotional Courage

• Jamie and Stacey

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We let a surprising song lyric kick off a real talk about why so many men struggle to open up, and why we’re grateful our marriage doesn’t live in silence. Jamie breaks down how he learned to be both protective and emotionally honest, and why that balance makes our connection stronger. 
• a lyric that highlights how rare good communication can feel 
• why many men learn to hide emotions to avoid looking weak 
• how family culture and Gen X messaging shape emotional habits 
• what masculinity looks like beyond stereotypes 
• protection without control and why trust matters 
• a faith-driven moment that unlocks emotional honesty 
• the risk of being misunderstood and learning tact 
• practical ways to start feeling again including “microdosing” emotions 
• why therapy can be the safest place to get unstuck 
If there's something from our conversation that resonated with you, give us a like, follow us on Instagram, Spotify, or Apple Podcast, and even drop us a comment. Comments out there, questions that maybe we can answer on a future podcast. 


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Welcome To RelationsMith

SPEAKER_03

And welcome back to another episode of RelationsMith. I'm Jamie Smith. I'm here with my gorgeous wife, Stacy.

SPEAKER_00

Hey everyone, this podcast is a space where we share our relationship and the conversations we're having. Sometimes about hard things, sometimes about lighter ones. Always with the goal of staying connected.

A Song Lyric Sparks Gratitude

SPEAKER_03

Staying connected for sure. All right. So we are on our 11th episode, which is pretty awesome. And we we're gonna take a little bit of a different turn. Stacy kind of wanted to interview me if a little bit, basically talk to me, ask me questions about oh yeah. Last week we we talked up. Yeah, last week we talked to our son Gabe and kind of just dove into the flow state and asked him what it's like to be a 20-year-old in this day and age. And so, yeah, go ahead, Stace.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so here's what happened. And and this is not unusual. I was listening to music and a song came on, and it what the lyrics made me think of you and just really appreciate you and who you are and how you operate. And wait till you hear the song. I know. Yeah, that was it. That was it. And so the lyrics were no matter how hard I try, you keep pushing me aside and I can't break through. There's no talking to you.

SPEAKER_03

Well, uh what? So yeah, okay that reminded you of me.

SPEAKER_00

Because you are not that way. Oh, I got it. So so I heard that lyric and thought, oh, Jamie is not that way, and I'm so glad. And so it got it just got me thinking about how how you are you. And what I mean by that is that well, she was specifically saying there's no talking to you. I can't break through, there's no talking to you. And that is a common thing that I hear women say about their men. That they they want to talk with them, but they just can't get the men to open up.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. And also another thing that I hear often from my friends who know you is just how awesome they think it is that you will. You you do have you do talk with me. We do have great communication, and and they appreciate that about you. Some of them may be even jealous, yeah. Right? Um I hope not. I hope not. Well, so anyway, that got me thinking about like how so, like I said, how are you you? And what I mean by that is you are both masculine and also very secure in talking about your feelings. And just how and that seems to be really hard for a lot of men. For some and maybe I'm misinterpreting or misunderstanding, but it seems like a lot of men don't find it like they can do both be masculine and be emotionally open.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00

So I thought it might be helpful if we could hear about how you do that.

Why Many Men Shut Down

SPEAKER_03

Well, first of all, it's not easy being perfect. I I've actually been waiting to say that. Nah, nah, nah. You know, I'm just kidding. You know, and and we can go so many different routes with this. You and I kind of touched base a little bit about this yesterday. And, you know, it it all depends on the situation, I think. For me, I feel like a lot of my friends, a lot of guys and their relationship, they find it hard sometimes to talk, to be open about their relationship. And what's crazy is sometimes they're they're more open with men with each other than they are with their own spouses. I know that it and and it could it could stem I I guess I have a few questions. If if it has been happening ever since they were dating, then I would say it was either a date a a relationship that predated them, could be something as, you know, I have one friend, he was telling me, he's from Canada, he was telling me that he when he was growing up, his dad was like, keep your mouth shut and do what I tell you to do, you know, and and you like it and this is the way it is, kind of deal. And he, you know, suck it up buttercup, you know, rub some dirt on it, type of thing. And he learned that that's kind of the way he should be, not show emotion and just do what he's gotta do.

SPEAKER_00

But I've I hear you, and I'm not saying that can't be part of it, but you also had that experience growing up. Like your dad was not the kind of dad that was like cultivating your emotional well-being. I mean and don't I love your dad, I'm not bad mouthing your dad.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. He'll he he'd say it too. Yeah, you know, he they all grew up in different generations. I mean, I think it's a generational thing too, but you can ask a lot of guys my age or around my age, the Gen X age. You know, just like any father, uh any parent really, you're just figuring it out. And they grew up in a time where it was that, you know, and and I remember moments when even on the football field when I was in little league, you know, you just you you wanted to cry because it just it was it was painful or something happened, and you were basically just told to get up and let's do it again, you know, and that's kind of how they trained us, you know, on the football field or or whatever. And it's kind of like that, you know, and and no disrespect, but it was no participation trophy. It was all about earning, it was all about competition, it was about this. So there was this sense of masculinity. I find that my mom, my grandmother, my mostly my I would say my mom and my grandmother were huge advocates of being able to feel like you were safe to open up about who you are, your emotions. My mom to a degree were, like I've said before on a podcast, my mom thought I could do no wrong. You know, she looked at me with rose-colored glasses. I was the greatest thing in the world, and now she feels that way about her her grandkids, but and her great grandbabies, but but you know, it it was this I learned, I guess, at a young age, and I want to say pre-teens, that I'm gonna be tough, but I'm also just gonna put myself out there. You know, I was kind of a loner. I had a group of friends that I hung out with, but they were, you know, I only got to hang up with them so much. And then when I went to school, I didn't actually fit in any particular. I didn't hang out with the the preppy click kids or the the jocks or you know, the the drama kids or this or that. I kind of like floated around. I like I could fit into each one, but I couldn't fit into all or you know, any particular one. So I think for me, growing up, I I just kind of felt like I just I've always put myself out there. I and I found that you know in previous relationships that if and I remember a high school relationship that was really tough because it was it everything I did was not good enough. And I shut down and I wouldn't say anything. I would I would just be I would just be a man, do my thing, didn't show any kind of emotion, didn't show any kind of you know, whatever for for whatever reason, even if I got mad, I was wrong for feeling mad. So I just I just shut down. But then it came a point in time in my life, and I think for me having kids also just softening my heart again and and just being being me. I think in our relationship, I starting over before we met, starting over, it was one of the things I I said to myself, getting into a relationship, I was I was not going to settle for being someone I'm not. So that meant being rough and tough, but also meant, you know, I love laughing at everything. Everything. There's so many things that bring me joy. And you know, I'm I've never been accused of being grumpy all the time. You know, I'm always trying to find the light in something. Do I get angry? Yeah. Do I get frustrated? Absolutely. Ask any of my coworkers. You know.

SPEAKER_00

But but but how did you find the courage? Because you had your fair share of rejection. It wasn't like you didn't experience rejection. Yeah. So how did you find the courage to keep putting yourself out there even when you were rejected?

SPEAKER_03

Because I got to a point where I didn't care. I didn't I didn't care what people thought. Because for me to be happy, I needed to be me. And what that means is I needed to be able to express myself in the way that I felt I needed to express myself. Now I'm not talking about imposing my will on people. I'm not talking about making people feel uncomfortable. I've always been kind of the bold person where I kind of just say what's on my mind. Sometimes it rubs people the wrong way. I've learned how to use a lot of tact in that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's important.

SPEAKER_03

Yep, very important. I mean, it's kind of what we talked about, I think it was on our first episode where we talked about brutal honesty. Right. You know, you you know, honesty's great, brutal honesty is not welcomed. So constructive criticism, but my biggest thing is if it's in my head, say it. What's the worst thing can happen? Be misunderstood? Okay. At the end of the day, it's not brewing in my head, it's not sitting there circling and wondering if. I don't like the if, wonder if. I like to know what's going on. And in order for me to understand what's going on in your brain, sometimes I gotta ask that question in order for you to be able to get it out, right?

SPEAKER_00

Some for some people though, being misunderstood is is impermissible.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Oh, it's tough. It's tough being because you know you, you know who you are, and sometimes you had an experience with this. You talked about this in one of your previous jobs, where you were put in a position where you said something and you meant it very matter of fact, and you got in trouble for it, and then you were like, But that's not how I meant it. This is this is the this I just said what it was, and it was apparently the way that you said it, and so it made you have to reshape, you know, you didn't your heart is gold. You I see your heart and I adore you, and when I think that somebody's misunderstood you, it breaks my heart, you know what I mean? Because I know your heart, but if people don't know you, and that's what I've learned how to accept, if people don't know me and they take me the wrong way, it's because they don't know me. I remember way back in the day whenever I had this job, and I had a lot of people that were against me in this job, and it's because they didn't they just didn't know me. But what was a great thing is one of the guys, when he finally realized and he got to know me, he was like, Man, don't let any old man like me tell tell you what to do or what you've been called to do. You know, you do you, be you.

SPEAKER_00

I love that confidence of they just don't know me. Once they get to know me, then I think so. I it'll be good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it'll be good. I told you, it's it's hard to be perfect. Um, no, but seriously, I I was saying this to my boss a while back. Okay, so there was an instance at work where somebody came in, started making a bunch of changes, and didn't realize that I was in charge of this one thing. And they just kind of came in, and so I was like, Yeah, you need to you need a back her down there, Billy, you know, kind of deal. And and so we had a meeting and we all got our heads together, and they were unsure of where the lines were and the boundaries were, and so I was I just told them, I said, listen, just come out, just talk to me. Talk to me about it, don't just assume, because you know what assuming does, right? Right? And so don't just assume. Listen, ask anybody in this company about me, they'll tell you, if you can't get along with me, more than likely, it's you. They all laugh so hard. And but and and then my boss actually come out and he goes, That that's actually correct. If you get to know him, you'll know that he'll do, even if it's not in my job scope, I will do whatever I can to go above and beyond to help anybody out. That's just who I am. I love doing it. So, yeah, so I guess that's I'm losing my train of thought. I'm sorry. I'm talking about it.

Redefining Masculinity Without Control

SPEAKER_00

That's all right. Well, one of the things that we talked about when we were getting ready for this episode was what it means to be masculine even. And there's a lot of like right now, there's a lot of this using this term toxic masculinity. And and I don't have to be honest, I don't fully understand what that is. I think it's you were telling me, do you understand it?

SPEAKER_03

I do, I do. And I say boo, and I say it reluctantly, because there was a time when masculinity was the woman needs to shut up and the guy. It's it's this is I guess this roots from the the the the the women's movement. What do they call that? Feminist movement is is is where it was originally supposed to be from. Well, you're talking about misogyny. Well, it yes, it that's where toxic masculinity comes from. It's this idea that the the man is this, you know, the verb or you know I thought you were telling me that it had more to do with just like that uber competitiveness.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, well and that's a that yes putting men putting each other down, men putting each other down for not being quote unquote masculine enough or or having any characteristics that might be seen as feminine certain roles, yes, and that is a part of that.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. So that part I guess it's just uh as men have through the ages, it's redefined itself in so many ways. But nowadays, when there is like this what's the best way to say it? Almost that frat boy mentality where there's this constant competition, constant kind i you can watch any movie or show, and you have this. I mean, last night we watched a show and there was a frat club, and the men, you know, the boys were it was all a competition or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Of putting each other down.

SPEAKER_03

Putting each other down, telling them to, you know, you know, whatever, kiss the ground or what you know, and so there was this submission, but it was one of the kids, I remember he said, It's it's just what you do to to be a part of this brotherhood.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you know the shared pain is the the loyalty. Yeah, I think that's a good example of toxic masculinity. That is toxic masculinity. So but to m but masculinity is not bad.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_00

And so what do we mean by when I say you're masculine, what do we mean by that?

SPEAKER_03

And for me, I would say it's better for you to describe it because for me it's watching violent movies and and wrestling and and you know Is that what makes you feel masculine, you know, and while I'm sitting there having a beer watching John Wick, you know, and you're like, ugh.

SPEAKER_00

Is that what makes you feel masculine? No, no, no, yeah. It is just one of the ways it's just one of the ways. That's just the stereotypes of masculine stereotypes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think what I think is masculine is the way that you are protective.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And that you are you take ownership of our household and our family and also when you build or fix things like working with your hands, I think that's masculine. And those are things I think are attractive and desirable. For me, anyway.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But also, but okay, so I say you're protective, but you're not a bully. No.

SPEAKER_03

And you're not I don't like bullies.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And you're not overbearing or controlling.

SPEAKER_03

So no, no, no. I want people to have their own identity. Yeah, yeah. I want my family to have their own identity, but within that, there is a certain sense of like, it is my responsibility as the man of the household to protect, to make sure that you're not gonna, you know, like like with our youngest, uh, you know, there are things that he's doing, he does, and he's trying to, he's testing the waters, he's doing all kind of stuff. And what's neat is he'll he'll actually come to me and ask me, what do you think? And I'll be like, Well, listen, this is what I did, and it didn't work out so well, you know, or whatever. And like when we go out, you know, I I described this to your dad once. We were downtown Nashville, and sometimes, and some of the guys I've talked to, they feel the same way. You know, sometimes it's not enjoyable. I love going out with you, I love doing things with you, but sometimes I go to downtown Nashville and it is a constant head on the swivel looking around because you have a lot of drunk people out there, you have a lot of like you you just have a lot of shady, sus type people. And so I'm and I'm protecting you, you know, and sometimes I don't even want to partake in some of the festivities because I'm making sure that you're safe, you are my primary, you know, primary concern, right? So I tend to have that moment unless we go to a you know, a preds game, because then then we're in our seat and stuff like that. But even then I'm still kind of head on a swivel type of thing, making sure that the people you're sitting next to are around us, you know, there's no crazy thing going on. So it's it's one of those things where I find myself that's the protector in me.

SPEAKER_00

You know, that's that's yeah, and that's but that's what I mean by balanced. So you're protective, but you're not controlling or overbearing.

SPEAKER_03

No, because even though it you could go with your girlfriends downtown, and I'm not sitting there watching or standing at a table with my arms folded, staring at you guys like and you know, with a security earphone and sometimes I want you to be and maybe I am. Um no, but you know, you go you go on your girls' trips, you know, yeah, and I and I trust you. I trust you're not gonna put yourself in a position where you know I'm gonna have to put hands to cuffs, you know, type type of things with somebody. And, you know, no, not controlling. Now, was that hard for me in the beginning? Yeah, but that was something I was trying to just learn how to build.

SPEAKER_00

Hard to not be controlling or no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03

Hard not to let you go and me not be able to protect you.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because it was all about protection. It wasn't about trust as far as, you know, you know, whatever else.

Protector Energy And The Bear Metaphor

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So how how do you how do you think you would personally define masculinity besides watching violent movies and drinking beer?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, that's great. Um I I just think that see it's kind of tough. Again, it's a generational thing because you know and it just depends on the person. For me, I just got to the point where I there are things that that are appealing to guys and some girls, but guys that they're drawn to, you know, like for instance, you know, your violent movies or your, you know, your UFC, you know, or just different things like that. Wrestling. You know, guys are most men can be attracted to those things because there's this competition, this gladiator-esque type thing.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think that's bad.

SPEAKER_03

No, I don't. I don't.

SPEAKER_00

I think there's a purpose in that, you know, that that men a lot of men have that kind of wiring for competition and strategy, and I mean, it's necessary sometimes to protect your your way of life.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. I heard this well, I read this excerpt in this book, and I remember they said they did a study on these boys and they put them out in and outside, and they didn't give them any toys. They didn't nothing. I think they were like five and six years old, and they ended up not saying too much, but eventually you start watching these kids, and I think it was like four or five boys, and they went, grabbed a bunch of sticks, formed them into little weapons, and then they were sword fighting and and playing and and doing their thing. And this is and what was crazy about the study is that these were kids that were not really exposed to any of that type of stuff. They were put out there, yeah, you know, and observed, and this is what was happening. And then they did the same thing with girls, and you know, they put them in a in a room, and they they were just chatting and and combing each other's hair, stuff like that, you know. And and I don't want to say that that girls aren't like that outside as well. There's plenty of girls we call tomboys back in the day, and and they loved hanging out with the guys, and it was great. It was great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with either.

SPEAKER_03

No. So how do I define masculinity? I I would say for me, I I want to be the protector. I want to I uh the image that I'm trying to bring across is that I'm you know don't F O F A. You know we will F around and find out. Yeah, that's what that stands for. I was gonna say, if you know, you know. Yeah. Um I want to be that, I want to give off that persona, but I also not to the point where you can't approach me. I want, you know, you explain you you described it as I'm like this big bear, right? Looks ferocious, but then when you get to know you he's just a bundle of teddy bear fur. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So true.

SPEAKER_03

So that that's kind of how I I describe it is that that just like a bear in the wilderness with his uh cubs and stuff, he he's gonna protect him, he's gonna protect his family, and he's gonna come off this way. But when the cubs want to play, he's he's playing, you know, and doing his thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and you are that way. So uh something else we talked about, but I think this question kind of speaks to it. So when did you realize that being emotionally honest didn't make you weak? Was there a moment or experience that shifted your perspective?

Faith And Emotional Breakthrough

SPEAKER_03

Good question. Okay. I think when I became a Christian. Oh yeah, you didn't know where that was yeah, it was going there. I did not. Because I found there was this moment where I just was really, really tough. I was agnostic before I became a Christian, and for me, it was kind of a miraculous, if you will, type of conversion. I wasn't hearing it. I'd I'd heard seen seen examples of it in in you know my life with different people, and Christianity was not for me. But I chose to go to church with my ex and our kids, and because I wanted them to have some kind of like, you know, some good morals if I'm not giving it to them, you know, type of thing. Yeah and some good ground. And when we went, it it ended up not being about them at all, it became about me. And it was speaking to you. It was speaking. It and the words wouldn't. It was weird, and here it comes.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't mean to put you on the spot. No, no, because I didn't think you were. No, I like this. I like this.

SPEAKER_03

All right, but don't and please, you know, uh don't think I'm kooky or anything.

SPEAKER_00

But it was unless you do I mean, and if you don't already yeah, it was it was supernatural.

SPEAKER_03

I mean the reason I say that is because I was I just remember sitting there in the in in the church, and soon as the music started, I started to cry. I didn't know the songs again. I didn't go to church, so I didn't know the songs. The pastor was talking, I didn't know really what he was saying. I mean, and as the service went on, I started crying profusely. My ex looked at me and was like, Oh my gosh, is there something wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know, you know, and I couldn't really talk. And we're walking out of the church, and the pastor's there shaking hands and stuff, and and and he's like, Hey, thanks for coming. I was like, you know, and he's like, and she's like, he said thank you for he said yes, it was great being here. And as we got in the car and we're driving off, I started to be able to talk. And it was weird. So we went back the following weekend, same thing happened. I'm like, what is going on? I am having a mental breakdown in church, you know. So I thought I'd mess with it a little bit and decided to go on a Wednesday night. They had Wednesday night Bible study at this church, and I remember going and I'm like, okay, this is cool. The pastor was up there, he was doing the lesson, and I'm like, all right, I feel good, I feel good. And he started talking. I was like, oh my gosh, this is something I can relate to, what he was talking about. And I and and I I raised my hand because I wanted to say, you know, say something about it. And when I did, oh, and I started crying again, and I didn't know why I was crying, there was no reason, none. And so, you know, my ex apologized, you know. Oh, was she there with you? Yeah, and I put my hand down, and then afterwards everybody was leaving, and I just kind of just sat there, and the pastor comes up and he sits down, and everybody had left, and he's like, How you doing? I'm like, and I could barely get it out, and I'm like, I don't know what's wrong with me. And he said, Do you you know anything about prayer? And I was like, Yeah. He goes, Can I pray with you? And I was like, Yeah. And so he started praying, and I felt like in my heart, this audible voice saying, Okay, you've done it your way. Now you're gonna do it my way. And from that point on, it was crazy. I was in touch with my emotions. I would go to worship services, and I would, you know, I would cry, laugh. I mean, that's when for me, that's when all my emotions started really flooding out. I became very confident in who I was as a masculine man and a man that could just, you know what? I it was the first time I was being able to be in a situation, and I don't know if they privately were judging me, but I wasn't feeling judged. I felt like this is what I've been called to do, this is who I am, and so I think for me, I really learned how to be my truest self. No excuses. I can I can say, do, feel, and the world might judge me, but my God will not.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. So So is your faith?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I wasn't expecting it, but I love it.

SPEAKER_03

You know, you made me really dig deep. Because I sat there yesterday when we talked a little bit about it. I was like, what is it? What is it? Why am I like this? And then and then it hit me. I was like, oh yeah, that's when I really started getting it. So because I was an angry kid.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I was very angry. I was mean, like, not mean as a bully type mean, but I was picked on a lot. I was bullied a lot. And and then so as I grew up, I I fought a lot because I did not like bullies, and that's kind of what I I would try to protect the little person, you know, when I see bullying going on. Uh most of my fights in high school and college age were by we're picking or people picking on someone else and me handling business, right? So but I became very angry inside. And and then my the girl I was dating in high school, college age, and and then you know, it just it kind of it kind of subsided a little bit, especially once I had kids. But then the moment I became a Christian, it was like that anger was just I mean, do I get angry? Yes. Do I get frustrated?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

But I try in all my regards to see the glass half full. Yep. Always. And I love people, even if they don't love me. And I want to try to do my best to take care and to help and you know, do what I this is me. So I think for me it was my faith.

The Pressure To Never Look Weak

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Wow. So there's this perception that many men feel like they can't express their feelings. Do you think that's accurate? Do you think that's true that a lot of men feel like they they aren't don't have the freedom to express their emotions?

SPEAKER_03

Again, uh like we said in the beginning, it depends on the situation. I think for me, I was holding on to a lot of uh you know, that stuff, right? And then I think if you're given that freedom to be able to express yourself.

SPEAKER_00

But I'm asking like generally, like generally among your male friends and your you know, your experience with male coworkers, male friends, do you think that's true? That they feel like they are are they there's a pressure to hide their feelings.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I think that there is a certain sense of not showing weakness. Yeah, definitely. I think there's a lot of like if I show weakness, I I got another friend he w you know I used to work with and he he was all about that. He was all about professionalism, he was constantly this, he was, you know, he was in charge of a bunch of different things, and and it was like you would never see this guy in his weakness. And and somehow, through hanging out with him at different events and and getting close with him, I started kind of like without trying to start breaking those walls with him, you know, because I'd call him out on things and he'd be like, and I'd be like, bruh, is that is that phone like a ta uh growth, you know, it's attached surgically to your ear? I mean, you're hanging out with us, drop it, you know. You know, it's 10 o'clock at night. If if they can't figure it out during, you know, now they're not, you know, it's not gonna happen. So, you know, so you started becoming a little mindful of those things, and and then it was like there were just moments in our life where him and I got close, but it was because I kind of called him out on certain things, and I was like, listen, you don't have to put on this show for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you invited him to be real, to be real, yeah. Have you have there been times when being open about your felt feelings felt risky or uncomfortable?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So how did you navigate that?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so but it was when I first started dating again, you know, at my age and before I met you. And so there were just it's like, you know, I I had a fear of being alone, but also didn't want to settle. And so when you settle, that means you had to sacrifice something about yourself in order to get something you want. And I find that if you can be true to yourself and be patient, that that person will come. And so I was a little scared, but I put myself out there. And the dating world was not what I expected, it's not what I dreamed of. I did not want to be in the dating world, and so I had to reframe a lot of things and say, you know what, this is who I am, and you're gonna take it or leave it, and the right person's gonna come along and accept it and love me for it. And she did.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Shocking how quickly it happened, too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Crying Microdosing Emotions And Therapy

SPEAKER_00

All right then. So, what advice would you give to men who want to find this balance? To find the balance between being masculine, being the protector, being the head of the house, and being feeling free to be honest and open with their emotions.

SPEAKER_03

Well, first of all, I think that you gotta get rid of that that that thought in your head, that little voice in your head that says you're weak if you show your emotion. You gotta get rid of it. That that is doing you no good. Because I'm gonna tell you something. Some of my best moments of renewal in my soul is when I just cried. When I just sat there and just cried. I mean, guys, I'm I'm here to tell you seriously, friggin' do it, do it on your personal time, close yourself in a closet, go out into the woods, whatever. Just tap into those those emotions that you bury. Give yourself permission. Give yourself permission, work it out, let yourself just cry. Laugh. Laugh at the dumbest thing. Laugh. Because I find that that is so therapeutic. Crying, God gave it in us, right? And even if you're not a believer in God, the universe or whatever you want to call it, we as human beings have emotions that most animals do not have. And we have the ability to understand that if I'm sad, I cry, if I'm happy, I laugh, if I'm angry, I, you know, growl. And if we don't allow ourselves to do that, there's a reason why we can do this. And if we can do it and just let it out, man, there's a it's just a it's like a deep breath of fresh air sometimes. Scream, grab a pillow, put your face in it, and scream bloody murder. Sometimes that's that that's needed as well.

SPEAKER_00

You make me think of this term that I heard recently, microdosing.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So I heard it too, but I'm not sure. Yeah, so it me it means when when you're just brand new to trying a new behavior, you don't have to go all in if that doesn't feel safe for you yet.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You can just uh microdose it.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So just just do it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

A little bit'll do you.

SPEAKER_00

Just whatever, just whatever feels you know, safe. Or even if it doesn't feel safe, then just do it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree with that. I think it's great. Yeah, get away. You know, I mean, if and and the other thing I would say is that if you're really having a hard time, talk to somebody. Please. There isn't that's another form of weakness. People find or people think it's weak. To go to a counselor, to go to a psychologist, or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

It's a yes, people think it is, but it's not.

SPEAKER_03

It's not, it really is not. It is it is a great way, and if you're not feeling safe, or let's just say, if you've gone if you're in a relationship and and and you don't feel safe, and it's not because your spouse or your you know significant other didn't make you feel that way, it's just that's how you come into it, and you just feel that way, and you don't feel safe at showing your emotions because of the past. A counselor is a perfect person to go to. Yeah. You know, uh is a safe space to be able to express that because there is just nothing like it. It it just frees you and allows you to scoop junk off and get it, and that's where you can be your truly honest self.

SPEAKER_00

Well the thing I love about a therapist is they're not emotionally invest they're not emotionally impacted by whatever you have going up. They can be an impartial third not third, that's there's only two of you in the meeting, so that doesn't make sense. But but it's sometimes you can't feel you feel like you can't talk to your spouse because they're gonna have an emotional investment in that.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But a therapist doesn't.

SPEAKER_03

No, a therapist doesn't, and they're also not gonna just sit there and agree with you. Yeah, you know, or or judge you. Or judge you. Yeah, you know, or you know, it's kind of like you know, certain people they they just want to hear somebody side with them. They're not gonna do that, they're gonna allow you to free yourself of whatever that is on you. Yeah. So to me, I would say get in touch, microdose your emotions. I think that's a perfect way to look at it. Try it out, do little by little, and then eventually you're gonna start feeling confident about yourself because here's the thing it's not about what other people think. It's not right. If people misunderstand me, that's on them. Now, I don't want people to misunderstand me, and I do, I am a people pleaser, but at the same time, I can't control or navigate what somebody else is gonna feel or think about me. Yeah, so I have to be comfortable in my own skin, I have to be me. And now that I feel like I can be my my truest self, it's not hard for me to tap into those emotions. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think that was that was it? That was it.

SPEAKER_03

All right, all right. Well, you're next. Next episode, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just now, no. I we'll see. Who's well all right? Well, thank you, my love, for grilling me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thank you for being so wonderful and worthy of being grilled.

Closing Thanks And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_03

You know, perfection is tough. Just kidding, just kidding. I know I'm playing that one out. Well, thanks for spending time with us. We really appreciate you being here with us today. If there's something from our conversation that resonated with you, give us a like, follow us on Instagram, Spotify, or Apple Podcast, and even drop us a comment. Again, hey, throw some. Comments out there, questions that maybe we can answer on a previous on a future podcast. We'll be back soon with another conversation. Until then, take care and thanks for listening to Relations.

SPEAKER_00

Bye-bye.