That Burden Is No Longer Yours to Carry: Coercive Control, Healing & Coming Back to Yourself | Christine Dillard

What does it actually take to come back to yourself after years of coercive control — and do you have to relive the trauma to do it?

In this episode, Heather Zimmerman sits down with Christine Dillard — director at Microsoft, single mother of two, and author of The Truth She Showed Me — for an honest, warm, and genuinely important conversation about surviving coercive control inside a marriage, what healing looks like when you stop performing it, and why your body knew things your mind took years to catch up to.

Christine shares:

• 17 years inside a marriage with coercive control — and why she didn't fully recognize it for what it was until she was on the other side
• Why she wrote the book without naming anyone — not even with fake names — so any reader could step inside the story
• How coercive control works: the slow accumulation of micro-behaviors, the image protecting, the covering for the abuser, and why it's so rarely talked about
• The insurance policy list — writing down every behavior that made you feel small, over the last 18 months, and handing it to an accountability partner so you can't second-guess yourself
• How the body tells the truth long before the mind catches up: cortisol spikes, insomnia, weight gain, chest tightness, high blood pressure — all of it was there
• Why healing is nonlinear — the PTSD doesn't just stop, and giving yourself grace to heal at your own pace isn't weakness
• The powerful thing her therapist said that finally gave her permission to release the guilt and shame she had been carrying
• Why you don't have to relive every moment of trauma in order to move through it — and what Reiki energy work gave her when she wasn't ready to put words to it yet
• A simple question for anyone who's questioning whether they're in a controlling relationship: Do you remember what you liked before this? Do you know what brings you joy?
• Her donation model: for every 20 books sold, one goes to a domestic violence organization — and in October (domestic abuse awareness month), it becomes 10 to one
• What she's building next: trauma coaching certification so she can offer more professional support alongside her lived experience

Find Christine Dillard:

I’m Christine Dillard, author of The Truth She Showed Me, a memoir about surviving coercive control, gaslighting, and abuse inside a marriage, and what it actually takes to come back to yourself on the other side. I’m also a Director at a Fortune 500, a single mom of two, and a woman who has done the deep work and refuses to be quiet about it. 

• Book: The Truth She Showed Me — available on Amazon (Kindle and paperback)
• TikTok: @thetruthsheshowedme

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Everything You Need to Know About the Ascension of Humanity, the podcast where ancient wisdom meets modern science and spiritual evolution gets real. I'm Heather, an energy healer, channel, and spiritual coach with Divine Ascension Company. Each week, we're diving deep into the mysteries of human consciousness, spiritual awakening, and the profound transformation happening within us and around us. But here's the thing: we're not doing this with our heads in the clouds. We're bringing neuroscience, psychology, quantum physics, and cutting-edge research to the table alongside meditation, energy work, and timeless spiritual teachings. Because the truth is, the attention of humanity isn't a far-off cosmic event. It's happening right now in the choices we make, the awareness we cultivate, and the healing we do within ourselves. Whether you're curious about how mindfulness literally rewires your brain, why shadow work is backed by depth psychology, or what coherence between your heart and mind actually means scientifically, you're in the right place. We'll explore practices like breath work, meditation, and emotional alchemy. Not as abstract concepts, but as tangible tools grounded in both spiritual wisdom and scientific understanding. And here's where it gets even better. In our bonus episodes, you'll hear from real people sharing real stories. These are the warriors, the healers, the everyday seekers who've walked through their own darkness and found their light. They'll share their breakthroughs, their struggles, and the resources that actually help them along the way. Because personal growth isn't a solo journey, and you deserve to know you're not alone. So whether you're just beginning to question the nature of reality, or you're deep in your spiritual practice, this podcast is your companion on the path. It's time to expand, to awaken, and to rise together. Let's begin. Today's guest is someone who spent 17 years in a marriage before she fully recognized what was happening inside of it. Christine is a director at Microsoft, a single mother of two, and the author of The Truth She Showed Me, a memoir about surviving coercive control, gaslighting, and abuse inside of a marriage, and what it actually takes to come back to yourself on the other side. She wrote the book originally as a journal, just for herself, just to track what she had lived through. And as she started to come forward with her story, she realized that women she had known for years, some for decades, had been living the same experience in silence. Nobody was talking about it. So she decided that she would. She doesn't name her abuser. She doesn't give him a fake name. She doesn't doesn't describe what anyone looks like. She doesn't even name her children. They're referred to as her children throughout the story. She did it so any woman reading could put herself inside of her story. Because as she says, there are too many men out there that everybody has a version that they can imagine. The book launched on April 2nd. Within a month, she had 37 podcast bookings. In this episode, we talk about what coercive control actually looks like, how it doesn't start dramatically but compounds slowly, how your body knows long before your mind even catches up. We talk about the guilt and the shame that comes with staying, and the permission it takes to finally put it down. We talk about the healing journey, that you don't have to relive every moment of the trauma to move through it, and that healing is not linear and never has been. And we talk about what one therapist said that lifted a weight Christine had been carrying for years. Don't you think you've carried that burden long enough? That burden is no longer yours to carry. Let's get into it. Her name is Christine. She's the author of The Truth She Showed Me, which is part memoir, and it really dives into surviving coercive control, gaslighting, and abuse inside of marriage and what it actually takes to come back to yourself on the other side of that. And in her little bio she sent me, she says that she's good at bringing a little fire to the conversation. So I'm really excited to get this started and hear what she has to say. How are you doing today, Christine? I'm great. Thank you, Heather. How are you? I'm doing well. It's so nice to have you here today. So why don't you go ahead and get us started and tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Thank you. I am an author of The Truth You Show or She Showed Me, like you shared. I am also a director at Microsoft. I work in the AI space. I'm a mother of two from Seafalls, South Dakota. I spent 17 years in a marriage where I experienced coercive control, something that I'm not sure I fully recognized until I moved out of that marriage and kind of was on my healing journey. And as I started to uncover my truth, I started to learn that a lot of women around me, women I had known for years and years, had very similar stories, but it was something that no one ever talked about. And so my book was written originally kind of as a journal for myself to kind of track my experience and evolved over time into the book that it is today, with hopes that it helps women feel validated and like they're not alone on this journey.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, that's amazing. And it's it's really interesting to me how not interesting, that's not the right word. It's it fascinates me as a psychology major, as someone who's obsessed with the brain and and human behavior. It's so interesting how many women go through this and just don't feel safe enough to talk about it. And it makes me so sad because I don't know if you've ever seen the show. Crap, I can't think of what it's called right now. But it's it's about a woman who is going through the same thing. And even her best friends have no idea that she's going through this until he is killed and they his mother tries to take her kids away and they go through this whole thing in court. And and her best friend's sitting there, and she's showing this video that her son actually recorded by accident of her being abused. And her best friend's like, oh my God, I had no idea. And it's amazing how often that happens, and it it's just it's so saddening. And I'm I'm so excited that that there's people like you out there who are willing to share your story for others because it does happen so often, and and there needs to be a safe space for people to be able to talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, I think uh it's becoming much more popular topic. There's just a lot of shame that comes with the fact that you got yourself into this situation or you landed in this situation. Maybe you didn't intentionally land there, but that you got into that situation, and now you've kind of built this life where there's this image you're protecting, there's this family you're protecting, the the image of the family and and what this you nobody goes into a marriage looking to get divorced or a relationship looking to leave it, right? So, you know, as things start to surface, a lot of times we cover for that. You know, we we make these minor shifts in in the truth. We leave pieces out of the truth to protect a lot of times the abuser and to protect the image and societal norms to some degree. But as this topic is becoming more and more popular, I'm hoping that women will start to feel like they don't have to feel shame. You didn't put yourself there. You definitely are not alone. I I just I'm I regret thinking I was alone that entire time. Not speaking about it definitely not only impacted me negatively, but my kids too. If I would have started talking about this 10 years ago and would have recognized it for what it was, I mean, the the community that's out there is mind-blowing. It's terrifying. We don't have a clue how broad and deep this is. There are countries that are taking some serious action on this front. Um, Australia and the UK are a lot further ahead of us. But I hope that we'll catch up.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah. So there's a hot topic right now, and I'm sure you've you've heard about it about the academy. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I don't know. I don't know that anyone's have any good thoughts on that one. I would hope not, but no, it is it's sad. Like it's a it's an epidemic. We we have a problem in this world right now, and it exceeds even the academy. Again, like the number of women that I'm hearing talk about these things, and and a lot of them are like, I can't tell my story yet, and I still can't talk to anybody about it, but because you have the story, I trust you. So I'm hearing these things. It has to be the norm to allow women to talk about this and for the abusers to get punished.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Whether it's through things that they're doing with the academy, which we all know are wrong, that we all it's terrifying. Like it's just it is as a woman in this world, it is terrifying to know that there were that many views on a website for something so traumatizing and frankly life-threatening in some cases.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

And it it irks me because everybody is making a big deal about the the argument of was it 62 million people or 62 million? I'm like, can we forget about why does it even exist? Can we just be upset that it's even there?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Who cares how many people are looking at it? It doesn't matter if it was one million or 62 million at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it was one person, the fact that it it exists is is mind-blowing to me.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

And you know, I I have I I've never been married, but I've been in narcissistic relationships. I was abused, sexually abused as a child and as an adult. And so even with my story and finally being able to come out and talk about that, which is more of not a nameless or a faceless thing, but it's a lot less in-depth because I wasn't with that person continuously for so long, right? But it's still the fact that it happens. And and I knew that there was a problem, right, in society with this. But now, as things are coming out, the Epstein files, this academy, and and just the fact that this is, I didn't realize how normalized this was and how big of a problem it was. And and I don't know if part of it was, you know, just me not wanting to believe that or just because of my experience, but but hearing so many women come forward is it it's empowering for me too to know that like I'm not alone and that these things are such a problem and more people are becoming aware of it. And so I'm grateful that these things are coming out because it is bringing eyes and ears to the situation and the problem. And we're starting to see the full scope of how deep it goes, but at the same time, it it baffles me that this is even a thing, and it's such a big thing. It's just I'm still my mind is just completely blown. Like I I really didn't want to believe that people were that I don't want to use the word evil, but evil.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Like this is evil. Yeah, there is no other word for it's inhumane, it's evil, it's uh you're right, like it's just it's mind blowing that this that it exists and that it is normalized, and that is an appropriate word for this. When I think about actually right before I'm gonna comment on the day that we're recording this, it's the 29th of April. It's denim day for SA Survivors month. And so the instead of wearing pink like we do in October, it's denim today. We have to we have to normalize through showcasing attire or colors or clothing for something like this. Cancer we can't control. Like we we can't we can't do things about there are things that we're working on, but we can't do things about this. This is a human-to-human thing. This is there is a way to fix this.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Abusers need to be punished. Absolutely. There needs to be accountability for sure. And we're not there yet, but I'm I'm hoping it happens much sooner rather than later because of how how deep it is. But yeah, I anyway, let's move on to something better to talk about. Your book, amazing, and I I honestly would love to read it myself. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Uh it's so almost overwhelming and humbling at the same time to see the response to this topic, like the timing of everything, the the telling my story when I did, you know, it's been live for I launched on the 2nd of April. So just under a month. There I have 37 podcast bookings already. Wow. I mean, if that doesn't tell you there's a problem and we've we need to be talking about this, I don't know what does.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

It's I mean, it is an everyday thing. Like the reviews that I'm seeing from the book, women saying, I there was a woman the other day that told me she's like, I have lived for 30 years without the words, and you gave them to me. That's amazing. It was beautiful and heartbreaking. And I had another one who was just like, I don't know how you did that. She goes, I felt like I was reading my life in black and white. She goes, I don't know how we all have the same experience. And something unique in the book is I don't, I don't name my abuser. There's not even a fake name, I don't name my children. They're referenced to as my children all the way through and my ex or my husband at the time, however we're framed up. But the the reason I did it that way was so that anyone reading it could really put themselves in that story. It's your children, it's your son, it's your daughter. I don't describe physically what anybody looks like. Again, my kids for protection, but but for him, like there are too many men out there that it's sad that everybody has a version that they can they can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah. But that's I mean, that's a really good strategy for making your book relatable, right? So because it is such a relatable experience, unfortunately, that you can put yourself put anybody could put themselves in your shoes. And that's an amazing way to help your story get across and and to give people those words that don't don't have them and to provide that language and be like, wow, I really am, you know, not alone in this. And so that's that's truly amazing. And congratulations and kudos to you for being able to do that because it takes. I just finished my first book. I'm I'm publishing it right now, and it's part memoir, and it goes through some of my journey and and it's not even all about that part. So just having that even in there a little bit was an experience. So for you to be able to put all of that out there, that's amazing. That's absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

I feel like it finally gave me the chance to show like the whole version of me that that I'd hidden, the pieces that I'd hidden for so long. And I, you know, I'm not I'm not the same person I was, and that healing journey shows up in the second half of the book or the last third of it. And it just, as you know, like as you work through that stuff, it's totally nonlinear. And I it's kind of a everybody uses that, but it's not. I there are scenes in that book where I'm in those final stages towards the end of the book, and I'm having the PTSD nightmare still, and there there is a whole couple of chapters on that. It doesn't just go away, and I think it's really important for people to understand that too. Like, give yourself the grace to heal and give yourself the time. There's no race and it's hard work, and it's not, it's just it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah, and there's multiple layers to everything. Once you, once you think you get through one part of it and you keep working, it comes back because there's a deeper layer to it, and that's okay. That's how any any part of the healing journey is, any kind of trauma. And we really do have to be understanding and give ourselves some grace and and compassion because it's it is difficult to work through, but but coming out the other side is such a beautiful thing. And that leads me to my next question. How has your life changed since you've gotten out of that experience?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Oh, it's it's been it's been totally like transformational. I that's probably the best way I can put it. I live a what I would consider a very peaceful life. I'm a very non-anxious person now. Um, and I get to choose, right? Like I can, I have learned in this process and through the healing. Like, if I would have been listening to my body, it was it was telling me all along what was going on and the situation I was in. And that's actually how the the title started. It was the lies she told me, she being me. Because I was angry at myself for putting myself there and for not recognizing it for what it was and and for lying to myself and gasling myself, saying it wasn't that bad. And in my healing, that's that's why I didn't entirely change it. And I just did the cross out on the title because it shows the transformation as I was writing. I loved that original title, and then I got to a point about six months in, I was like, you know, she was there all along. She was telling me like the cortisol spikes, the non the insomnia, the weight gain, the puffy face, all of it. Like it was there, the high blood pressure, the chest pain, the tightness, all of it. The I mean, just every ache and pain was pre like it was there, the signs were there. And so as I've kind of moved through this this journey and moved past it, I'm listening to those things. You get an invite and you're like, ugh, might get a little tense when that person asked me to hang out. I'm not doing that. I'm not putting myself there. And it's given me the chance to like guide my children through that same experience and support them as they made some of those same choices.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

That's amazing because it is important, especially as you go through this healing journey. I mean, your nervous system is is so important because you do get those little feelings and you're like, okay, I recognize this, I know what this feels like. But you have to really be able to bring yourself back into your body and learn what those things feel like and what they mean and and listen to you know the truth that you're you're telling yourself. And I think that's that's awesome. I was gonna ask you something else about what you just said. How have you been able to work through what's one piece of advice? Because obviously there's women going through this everywhere. So as you were working through your healing journey, what was one easy, like little step that you took that kind of gave you that permission slip or gave you that opened the doorway for you to start doing that healing?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I used a lot of different methods, but the one that I found most powerful because I wasn't ready to talk yet was I found a Reiki healer that did some energy work with me, and it was like an ohm massage experience, and that I was protected. I was in a massage room, I was relaxed, I felt safe, and I didn't have to talk, but I could still release the emotion, and it definitely evokes emotion out of you if you're working through that experience. So that was it gave me the safe space to be able to release that without saying the words at that point, and that really I think started the process for me acknowledging what was happening and what I was feeling and and what I needed to do next.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah, awesome. I remember what I was gonna say now, what we were talking about earlier about having grace and compassion for yourself. One of the things that I've learned, and and you can tell me if if you've experienced something similar or something different, but as I went through these traumatic experiences, I've become grateful for them because they taught me something. They were an opportunity to learn something about myself, about you know how I interact with my environment and things like that. And we have to make Sure, that we understand that we you said something about being in like none of us ask to be in a relationship like this, none of us are looking for divorce or separation, but and we also get angry with ourselves when we're like, How did I let this go on for so long? Why didn't I listen to my body? We do the best we can with what we have in that moment, and sometimes those lessons take a little bit longer to learn because we're not ready yet, and that's okay. That's okay. You said even healing is not linear, the experience is not linear either. And so there's always multiple things, multiple layers, multiple, you know, opportunities to learn. And what I tell people when they're going through their healing journey, when they're not ready to talk about their trauma yet, I remind them that you've already been through the hardest part. You you survived, you're still here. So you have that right to take as long as you need to to heal, to heal however that looks for you, because it's going to be different for everyone, and to take it one step at a time. And so that's something that I always try to encourage people to remember. What's what's something that that you've learned through your experience that's that's kind of changed for you since?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

I can I comment on something else you said really quick. Yeah, absolutely. So yesterday afternoon, I actually got a message from someone and they said, you know, I so bad want to read your book. I just don't think I'm strong enough. And it speaks to exactly what you just said. The reality is you can't imagine the immense amount of strength that comes from saying, This is my boundary today. I'm not ready. Like you're protecting yourself in the way that you need to right now. That is strength. Strength is in a lot of different forms. It's not pushing yourself to read a book that's gonna create a situation that you're not ready for. There's been a couple of women who are in active relationships who have said that same thing. They're like, I just I think I'm gonna read things that I'm not ready to expose about my current relationship. And don't read it then. Please don't read it because you're you don't want to, and it's not, it won't be good for you. Like if you're ready someday, do it. If you're not, don't. But just like the the one thing that I wish I would have realized sooner, I think, is that I wasn't alone. And you don't have to talk about it to just know that you're not alone. You can join some of the the forums out there, and you can just like feel the camaraderie, the community by just reading other people's stories, so you know that like it's just it's not just you. Um and that when you're ready, there is that community to help support you. Yeah. And then I forgot your question. So it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

No, I mean you kind of answered it just by what you just said. And and I think that's important for people to realize too, because you know, we talk about self-love, we talk about upholding healthy boundaries. Well, if you're not ready to read the book yet and you're not ready, that's a healthy boundary for yourself as well. It doesn't have to look like, okay, I'm ready to go through the next step of the healing journey. Sometimes it's just hold up knowing where you are now, being self-aware and holding that for yourself and not jumping into it if you're not ready. It'll be there for you when you are. And and don't feel bad about not being ready yet. We all, like I said, we all take our own healing journey. We all go through the steps in our own time, in our own way. And that's nothing to feel bad about either. So if you're not ready, you're not ready. But just knowing that that community is out there, that the stories are out there, that there are other people out there that can help you when you are ready is in itself, you know, comforting, even if you're not ready to jump into it yet.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

In my head, I thought this whole time, as I've the last two years have kind of progressed, I always thought in order to overcome this and to overcome the side effects of this, I had to relive it. And I had to relive every moment so that I could heal from this. And that was probably the most powerful thing my therapist ever said. It she just stopped me dead in my tracks one day, just a couple of months ago, and said, You know that you don't have to relive every moment of this in order to move on and to be okay. And I it was like a light bulb click. I don't know why I thought I had to, but I really, really thought I had to. And something you said earlier was you commented on we did the best with the knowledge that we had at the time. When we look across, I mean, it doesn't just impact the women that are kind of in our age group, it is like much broader than that. But I think the the women who are speaking out are definitely they're a lot in that age group. And we a lot of times are like we have blame, we have guilt, we have shame. We didn't have access to the information that we do now. We didn't have access to the communities, right? Like social media when we were growing up, I mean it was there. My space was there. My space was there.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah, I remember I remember carrying a piece of paper with all my friends' phone numbers on it in my pocket because we didn't have cell phones. We we had to sit through AOL dial up, like, and then like I'm not sure how old you are, but like I'm I'm aging myself here, but but yeah, the but even the people back then, like we weren't taught to talk about that. We weren't allowed to talk about it. Our our parents, you know, the boomers, they they kept all that quiet. We, you know, so the you're right, the the environment about it alone is completely different now. And I think part of that is because of people like you who are willing to speak up and go against that, you know, programming of we don't talk about our emotions, we don't talk about our problems. That's stays behind closed doors, blah, blah, blah. And and we really need to push through that. And so I'm I'm thankful that there are pioneers like you who are willing to do that and show the way for everybody else because we didn't, we certainly didn't have that. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Please don't. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

No, no, absolutely. That's it. And hopefully we're disrupting it for the next generation. Like that's that's my hope is that they've got all this knowledge out there that they will see this miles ahead of the things that happen to us because they've got that access to the knowledge and the information.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

And even just from the psychology aspect now, like there's a lot of information going out there about narcissism, about toxic relationships. So it's I I'm hoping, you know, in a in a perfect world here, and hopefully not so perfect world, but we're we're getting also those red flags out there so that people can see ahead of time. So hopefully they can, you know, be self-aware enough to be like, okay, I recognize this pattern. This is not, this does not make me comfortable. And having that that nervous system even information out there about how to get back into your body, how to listen to those, those signs and and things that you're trying to subconsciously and physiologically tell yourself, be like, this is this is bad, let's stay away from this, so that hopefully we people can catch it ahead of time and not have to go through all of these, you know, traumatic experiences like we did. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

You called out something really important, I think, on the red flags and being able to see those and the pattern specifically, right? Because the pattern is where all this is at. You know, people have a I'm careful how I say that, but you know, like people might say something crappy to you, right, in the moment. Is that okay? No. Did it happen once in that lifetime, or is it now a pattern? And I think that was something that was really eye-opening for me is when I right after I right around the time I was filing for divorce, I went through and wrote us a little list of all the things and scenarios for the last 18 months that had made me feel small, had made me cry, had made me upset, like just things that he had done, behaviors. And I called it my my insurance policy. I was like, if I ever second guess myself, I'm going back to this. And then I found myself an accountability partner and handed them the list. And I said, like, if I ever come, and I never did because when you see it in writing, that is like if I could recommend one thing for people, is start just just write the list, just see how it goes. You might think it's gonna be one thing and it's a hundred. You might think it's gonna be a hundred and it's two. You just you don't know until you start to visualize it and like really play it out, and it becomes really eye-opening because again, especially when it's like micro behaviors or micro cuts, you don't know until you're bleeding out that it's it is so far gone that it's gonna be hard to recover from, right? So the earlier the better on that.

unknown 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

If you're dating somebody new, it doesn't hurt to take some mental notes on the behaviors that are happening for men and women, right? Like, is there a pattern? That's the key. Is is it a pattern?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Absolutely. Because I mean, we all have bad days, right? We all, you know, have emotions, we all do things, but but you're exactly right. It's about recognizing that pattern. And and that's I I know saying that is a little easier said than done because especially with narcissists, it doesn't start out that way. Like the one guy I dated, it started out very small. It was just, you know, one little thing, and then it was another, and then it just kept compounding to the till the point where I wasn't allowed to go out with my friends, I wasn't allowed to go see my family. I had to go work out after work every day. I wasn't allowed to drink, I wasn't like, but it didn't start out that way. It it was this little tiny things that you're like, oh, I can let this one slide. Like this, because we all want to compromise. We all want to, you know, meet someone where they're at, especially when you're in that space where you want to be loved and you want to be in a relationship and you want accepted. But but again, this is where that nervous system thing comes into play and that repeated behavior, like noticing the repeated, they might not look exactly the same, but when your body starts to tell you, like, okay, is this something that I'm willing to compromise on? Is this something that still makes me feel good? What's the reason behind it? And is this, you know, part of that snowball effect? So again, that that self-awareness and and listening to your body and your your own thoughts, right? Those those health having those healthy boundaries are so important when you're when you're especially in that, you know, that snowball effect, because nobody ever starts out that way or else we would see it right, you know, ahead of time. So it's it's really being, you know, having that self-awareness and and knowing what your boundaries are and what you're comfortable with because it's not I we all want to be loved, we all want to be accepted, right? But it's not worth it because this is you know the possibility of how it could end up. And there's so many people out there in the world, this one person may not be that person for you, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Yep. And if you're sitting here and you're questioning, like, hey, I wonder if if I fit the bill for this, I wonder if I'm experiencing this, think back to who you were before that relationship. Were you someone who was out with your friends, had regular like lunches, brunches, whatever, went to book clubs, read like, do you still do the activities that you did before this relationship? And if you have now, if you can't answer what your hobbies are, if you can't answer your favorite food, your favorite color, you've lost pieces of you along the way. They'll come back, but it there's a reason those pieces are gone.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah. And even, even I would go farther still and be like, just ask yourself, are you happy? Do you know who you are? Right? Are you happy?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Is that person always happy to feel like? Do I remember?

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yes, exactly. That's a good one too. Like, what brings me joy? What brings me passion? Like you were saying with the hobbies. Am I truly happy? Do I look forward to getting up every day? Do I look forward to spending time with my partner? Is my partner giving me the same thing that I'm giving them in the relationship? Am I able to pour from a full cup? Or is my cup empty? Are they doing the same thing? Are they uplifting me? And so there are many questions that you you can ask yourself, but but like you said, just just it's so easy to lose yourself in a relationship, whether it's narcissistic or not, because we do have a tendency to want to compromise and to, you know, want to take interest in what our partner's interested in. But there's a line between being able to do that, but still having yourself too. And so not losing yourself completely is, you know, equally important.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

And it's really risky, I think, for moms, especially, because not only are you accommodating the spouse or the relationship in your life, but you're also accommodating the identity of your children. And it becomes a really fine line and it gets blurry fast, man. I don't know if it was fast, let's be honest. I was there 17 years, but uh but the reality is like you you think you're like, oh, well, I'm compromising because it's my kids, and I'm compromising because of this. You know, my kids haven't read my book, and I'm frankly, I don't know if I want them to. Yeah, they've each read one chapter because there's one chapter that has a pretty significant component of each of them in it, and I told them I'd remove it if they weren't if they didn't want it in there. But outside of that, they have not read the book, and I I don't care if they don't, I actually almost don't want them to because I don't want them to see all the things. And the reality of that is like I there I had to like this whole book experience, the podcast, the the like promoting of the book, all of that, like that is one of them actually said to me the other day, Mom, that's your story to tell. It's not my story. And you he's right, he is absolutely right. This is not his story, and so what I'm excited about when I get the books in the mail or I get a new review, like that they don't care that in the same way. And I've had to like be okay, like it's again, it's it's not a hobby at this point, right? Like it's a passion project, but it's mine, and I I need that, I need that for me, and I need that for the women that I want to help, but they don't need that, and so this is part of my identity, but it doesn't have to be part of theirs, and vice versa. They can have parts of their identity that aren't me.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Right. Right. That was really long-winded. That's amazing, and that's such a a well-rounded person perspective about it too, because you know, you you want your kids because you do have that bond and that, you know, you spend I I don't know how old your kids are, but but you spend essentially the first 18 years of their life like being attached at the hip and and sharing, like you get excited about what they get excited about. And like, so as they get older, especially you want to be like, hey, this is exciting for me. I want you to be excited because you have that relationship, right? But but you're exactly right. Like, this is your story, and even though they're a part of it, this is something, especially for your own healing and and you know, wanting to help others, like it, it's it's important and good for you. Good for you.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for what you're doing. Oh giving the forum for people to talk about this because absolutely there's such broad reach and it's something that is accessible to absolutely everyone through the the channels that you're offering it. So I I genuinely appreciate the work you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Awesome. And and anything that that I can do to help you along your journey as well, I'm I'm here for it. Like because I'm I'm one, I don't know, people who follow me on Facebook, they see like I'm not afraid to speak out about stuff. I will call people out, I will talk about the hard things. So a hundred percent any any support you need, I'm here for you because this is such an important topic and and it needs to be put out there. People need to hear it. So I got you, girl. I got you.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Thank you. Same, same, same. See the community, see this is the community that you start to find, and it's out there, ladies and gentlemen, it's out there.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Oh, especially gentlemen go through this too, and and and that sucks because even though it's such a hard topic to talk about, there's even more of a stigma against men talking about it. And I and I know plenty of men who have been through sexual trauma, you know, child abuse, things like that. And and it's more of them are starting to come forward as well. And just because we had our experience with men who did something wrong does not mean that we hold that against every man. So it's a safe space for men or women to talk about their stories 100%.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Yes. Please share more. Please help us spread the awareness and hopefully drive change.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yes, 100%. Ugh, I hope so. Anyway, so tell us where we can find your book and anything else that you're working on right now, because I would love to hear more.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

I am the book is available on Amazon today, uh, both in Kindle and paperback format. And then today, the with every 20 books that I sell prior to October 1st, I donate one to a domestic violence organization to make it accessible to everyone, regardless of kind of where they're at in their journey and what their situation is. But in the month of October during domestic abuse awareness month, I am going to do a 10 to 1. So for every 10 books I sell in October, I'll donate one to an organization. On my website this summer, there will be a link where people could add organizations that have helped them to get them on the list to get a book. Separately, I'm also over the next 12 months going to work on some trauma coaching certification so that I can offer more professional services around this, given that I have the lived experience.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

That's amazing. Awesome. And and send me that info about the the 10 to 1 and 20, because I'll promote it on my sites as well. Get some people buying the books for you. That's amazing. And I'll make sure all the links get put in the description and everything as well. And and one thing I wanted to mention that just popped back up in my mind that I forgot to talk about earlier is when you said that you don't have to relive your experience to go through the healing journey. I want more people to recognize that as well. That's something it's important enough for me to bring back up again because this is something, because I do energy healing, I do inner child healing, and people are so scared of it because they're like, I don't want to relive that experience. And you don't have to. I'm just, I just want to reiterate that and re-emphasize that because you don't have to. There is a way to work through the healing journey and to get through this without having to relive that experience. So I just want to.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

And there's so much freedom that happens like mentally when you actually hear those words and you accept the words, right? When you internalize that, oh my gosh, I don't have to relive that. I don't have to experience that trauma. It literally like lifts a weight off of you. The one other piece of just exceptional advice, very simple, but exceptional advice that I got from a therapist was I was talking about the guilt and the shame that was attached to it. And she looked at me and she goes, Don't you think that you've carried that burden long enough? She's like, That's no longer yours to carry. And I don't know what it was about that, but that gave me the permission to release a large chunk of that. I can't say it doesn't creep in now, but it's definitely like replay that piece, ladies and gentlemen, because you don't have to carry that burden anymore and you don't have to re keep reliving it.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. All right. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. It was an absolute pleasure to have you here. I genuinely am extremely grateful for you sharing your story and and having this book out there in the world. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for your support. Absolutely. If you're ready to stop surviving the ascension and start actually moving through it with a map, the self-spirit method was built for exactly where you are. And if you want a little taste of what that might look like, my book, Becoming Divine, is now available. It's the foundation, the framework, and the permission slip all in one place. Find the program and the link to purchase the book at divineascensionco.com. You were never meant to figure this out alone. I'm here. Let's do this together.